Or so says this guy:
http://247sports.com/Article/Diamond-Stone-favoring-Marquette-and-Wisconsin-94804
Considered the top low post player in the 2015 class, Diamond Stone has the attention of numerous schools. His recruitment, however, is shaping up as an in-state battle.
Out of Milwaukee (Wisc.) Dominican High School, Stone has local school Marquette and Wisconsin at the top of his school list. At last weekend's USA Developmental National Team Mini-Camp, he indicated the both schools were recruiting him the hardest and are also his favorites.
I likeeeee. Possibility of being the number one recruit in country his senior year. Now that would be nice.
Good sign. Hopefully his mind hasn't changed come time to make a commitment. MU should easily beat out UW if it came down to them. Kentucky fans have really been sucking up to him as of late, hopefully they don't have an impact.
Hi long time reader first time poster here on scoop.
His cousin is Ryan Evans who plays for the Badgers so we have got to fight off some family ties for him... Would be a huge get as i think he is a more athletic Gardner.
Quote from: MUalum12 on October 08, 2012, 04:17:59 PM
Would be a huge get as i think he is a more athletic Gardner.
You don't say?
I'll venture out and say he's already more everything than Gardner.
Quote from: PTM on October 08, 2012, 04:19:39 PM
You don't say?
I'll venture out and say he's already more everything than Gardner.
I would venture to say most certainly not.
Quote from: QuetteHoops on October 08, 2012, 04:26:45 PM
I would venture to say most certainly not.
You're right, Gardner has him in the body weight department.
Stone is being talked about as the #1 recruit in the nation. Anthony Davis, Jabari Parker, etc...
Stone would provide MU with more in his one season before the NBA than Gardner will in his entire career.
Quote from: MUalum12 on October 08, 2012, 04:17:59 PM
Hi long time reader first time poster here on scoop.
His cousin is Ryan Evans who plays for the Badgers so we have got to fight off some family ties for him... Would be a huge get as i think he is a more athletic Gardner.
On the plus side, Evans will have graduated by the time Stone enrolls. I have a feeling Duane Wilson will be a bigger positive as he will still be around for 2 years with Stone.
Quote from: PTM on October 08, 2012, 04:30:20 PMStone would provide MU with more in his one season before the NBA than Gardner will in his entire career.
That's only if he matches the hype. As a HS sophomore, he has a long way to go. Will he be the next Anthony Davis, or tumble down the rankings like Tokoto did? I'm a huge Stone fan, and definitely want him and his potential at MU, but he's not a finished product yet, and I certainly hope he would be the first to admit that.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 08, 2012, 04:32:53 PM
That's only if he matches the hype. As a HS sophomore, he has a long way to go. Will he be the next Anthony Davis, or tumble down the rankings like Tokoto did? I'm a huge Stone fan, and definitely want him and his potential at MU, but he's not a finished product yet, and I certainly hope he would be the first to admit that.
I agree and understand. The Gardner comparison was just far too off to let go unnoticed.
Quote from: PTM on October 08, 2012, 04:30:20 PM
You're right, Gardner has him in the body weight department.
Stone is being talked about as the #1 recruit in the nation. Anthony Davis, Jabari Parker, etc...
Stone would provide MU with more in his one season before the NBA than Gardner will in his entire career.
Yeah like Brew said IF he reaches his potential. The way you said it almost made it sound like Stone is the better player right now which is not true.
Agreed though, obviously much more upside.
Stone will require heavy recruiting by Buzz, But lets get LOONEY first.
Embiid would be huge. Landing Stone would be bigger. JE would be landing a top 20 recruit. Signing Diamond would be beating bucky in our own backyard for possibly the best big in his class. So much sweeter.
Correction:
Signing Stone would mean snagging a blue blood recruit.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 08, 2012, 04:32:53 PM
That's only if he matches the hype. As a HS sophomore, he has a long way to go. Will he be the next Anthony Davis, or tumble down the rankings like Tokoto did? I'm a huge Stone fan, and definitely want him and his potential at MU, but he's not a finished product yet, and I certainly hope he would be the first to admit that.
Not a Davis (late bloomer) or a Tokoto (fairly high respect early on, but not a ton as an upperclassman).
Diamond is absolutely the real deal. The only thing that could cause him problems is not working hard and watching him again this weekend, I'm not worried about that. He's a good kid, very likable, gets along with his peers... great voice too, has a career in broadcasting after the NBA.
He is comparable to Davante in the respect that they both can use their bodies to push aside defenders, but finish with a soft touch.
Stone is really, really special though... almost delicate when the ball goes from his finger tips to the bottom of the net... bruising force with such a sweet stroke. He excelled this weekend against some good bigs and long wings looking to block shots.
No problem saying Diamond Stone is absolutely legit. Big time.
Quote from: QuetteHoops on October 08, 2012, 04:44:17 PM
Yeah like Brew said IF he reaches his potential. The way you said it almost made it sound like Stone is the better player right now which is not true.
Agreed though, obviously much more upside.
no way his freshman year has as much impact as gardner, who should be our best player this year depending on who breaks out. he would literally have to be close to anthony davis as a freshman to compare to gardner's career, but obviously his upside could give him a much greater season than gardner's best season.
i hope we don't have the same kind of early season criticism of gardner that we did early last year with the "why all the love for Crowder" comments.
gardner was already very good before the injury last year and will be excellent this year and all conference next year in all liklihood.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on October 08, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
no way his freshman year has as much impact as gardner, who should be our best player this year depending on who breaks out. he would literally have to be close to anthony davis as a freshman to compare to gardner's career, but obviously his upside could give him a much greater season than gardner's best season.
I know you're high on Gardner, but Gardner's ValueAdd is projected to be 4.87 this year, and 5.54 in 2014. That's very good, but a lot closer to Otto Porter's frosh neighborhood (6.08) than Davis' (12.35).
And as of now Stone's HS rank is a lot closer to where Davis wound up (#1 RSCI) than Porter (#34).
I don't really share the optimism gleaned from this article. Yes, its great he's mentioning the local schools at the top, but he's only a Soph and the real competition hasn't even started yet. The scary part of the article is that it mentions his interest in finding a low post-centric offense, a quality that MU in no way possesses.
If we get him its because of some combination of Duane's influence, wanting to stay home, and Buzz's work ethic. I think its far more likely he ends up deciding to go somewhere like GTown or Kentucky; a school with a proven track record of placing big men in the lottery.
A cold splash of reality in the face. But... we have years to work on him
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on October 08, 2012, 09:18:45 PM
I don't really share the optimism gleaned from this article. Yes, its great he's mentioning the local schools at the top, but he's only a Soph and the real competition hasn't even started yet. The scary part of the article is that it mentions his interest in finding a low post-centric offense, a quality that MU in no way possesses.
If we get him its because of some combination of Duane's influence, wanting to stay home, and Buzz's work ethic. I think its far more likely he ends up deciding to go somewhere like GTown or Kentucky; a school with a proven track record of placing big men in the lottery.
If Buzz can take guys who are 3 star players, at a much more competitive and available pool of players position - the 2/3's - I have ZERO doubt he can send a 5 star kid likely to be Top 10 in his class who is a center...to the NBA Lottery. If Davante has a good year this year, that could be huge for MU in so many ways - season success - yet possibly more important - illustrate that bigs can be successful at MU, and even those who came in rated as a 2 to 3 star at 295 lbs.
The reason UK and G'Town send bigs to the lottery so frequently, is a direct result of them consistently landing the best available big men in the country. I'm absolutely convinced a guy like Stone would develop at minimum as good as he would at UK or G'Town - but more than likely - a hell of a lot better due to the culture at MU..and that Buzz creates.
I just hope he doesn't follow Buzz to SMU.
Quote from: Ners on October 08, 2012, 11:01:46 PM
If Buzz can take guys who are 3 star players, at a much more competitive and available pool of players position - the 2/3's - I have ZERO doubt he can send a 5 star kid likely to be Top 10 in his class who is a center...to the NBA Lottery. If Davante has a good year this year, that could be huge for MU in so many ways - season success - yet possibly more important - illustrate that bigs can be successful at MU, and even those who came in rated as a 2 to 3 star at 295 lbs.
The reason UK and G'Town send bigs to the lottery so frequently, is a direct result of them consistently landing the best available big men in the country. I'm absolutely convinced a guy like Stone would develop at minimum as good as he would at UK or G'Town - but more than likely - a hell of a lot better due to the culture at MU..and that Buzz creates.
Buzz has a track record of putting guards and forwards in the NBA, but not big men. I don't doubt that Buzz would be able to get Stone to the NBA, but I think it's an important distinction to make.
Getting Stone would be off the charts. Lot of work ahead on many fronts but very nice to see our name up there. As for Looney, I think that might be a real long shot.
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on October 08, 2012, 11:51:58 PM
Buzz has a track record of putting guards and forwards in the NBA, but not big men. I don't doubt that Buzz would be able to get Stone to the NBA, but I think it's an important distinction to make.
It is also important to distinguish between the difficulty associated with taking a 2-3 star guard/forward to the NBA....who are a dime a dozen...as opposed to sending the scarce 6'10"+ 5 star center to the NBA.
There are thousands of college players with measurables similar to Jae, Jimmy, Lazar, Wes, DJO - how many college players have measurables similar to an Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Mutomobo, Mourning, Ewing...lets not forget guys like Joel Pryzbilla were NBA lottery picks. Jimmy Mac made $35M...they simply don't grow on trees....lot easier to get guys like that in the league than the Jimmy's, Jae's, Zar's, Wes's, and DJO's of the world.
Quote from: Ners on October 09, 2012, 08:32:19 AM
It is also important to distinguish between the difficulty associated with taking a 2-3 star guard/forward to the NBA....who are a dime a dozen...as opposed to sending the scarce 6'10"+ 5 star center to the NBA.
There are thousands of college players with measurables similar to Jae, Jimmy, Lazar, Wes, DJO - how many college players have measurables similar to an Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Mutomobo, Mourning, Ewing...lets not forget guys like Joel Pryzbilla were NBA lottery picks. Jimmy Mac made $35M...they simply don't grow on trees....lot easier to get guys like that in the league than the Jimmy's, Jae's, Zar's, Wes's, and DJO's of the world.
Absolutely true and great point. It is far easier to get big guys into the NBA simply because there aren't very many to begin with.
Demand is high, and supply is low.
Quote from: The Equalizer on October 08, 2012, 09:15:58 PM
I know you're high on Gardner, but Gardner's ValueAdd is projected to be 4.87 this year, and 5.54 in 2014. That's very good, but a lot closer to Otto Porter's frosh neighborhood (6.08) than Davis' (12.35).
And as of now Stone's HS rank is a lot closer to where Davis wound up (#1 RSCI) than Porter (#34).
What part of comparing Gardner's
CAREER to Stone's freshman season did you not understand?
Quote from: Ners on October 09, 2012, 08:32:19 AM
It is also important to distinguish between the difficulty associated with taking a 2-3 star guard/forward to the NBA....who are a dime a dozen...as opposed to sending the scarce 6'10"+ 5 star center to the NBA.
There are thousands of college players with measurables similar to Jae, Jimmy, Lazar, Wes, DJO - how many college players have measurables similar to an Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Mutomobo, Mourning, Ewing...lets not forget guys like Joel Pryzbilla were NBA lottery picks. Jimmy Mac made $35M...they simply don't grow on trees....lot easier to get guys like that in the league than the Jimmy's, Jae's, Zar's, Wes's, and DJO's of the world.
I get your point, but I think mine still holds. Yes, it is easier to get 6'10 centers into the association than it is to get 6'2 guards there. I have no doubt that Buzz would be able to develop Stone into a lottery pick. But I also don't really doubt that Rob Jeter could do the same at UWM. This goes back to your point that its just not that hard to do if you have an athletic, true center.
But if you are Stone, why take any risk at all? You only get one shot at this whole thing, so why be the guinea pig at a school with almost no history of quality big men? Yes, you may think you are a can't-miss prospect, but something big has to be there to sway you if you think that there is any doubt at all about MU's style of offense or ability to develop bigs. What is our pitch going to be after JT3 comes in with a video comparing Stone to Ewing, Mourning, Monroe, Hibbert and Mutumbo? Come to MU, you can play with your friend Duane and your parents can sit in the front row every game? That may be good enough, but from the sound of it, he seems to want a little more focus on an interior offense and receiving the coaching he needs to be a great center. I don't blame him for it, and I agree that if Gardner can start averaging 16 and 8, we might look a bit more appealing.
I'd imagine playing time will be a huge factor in his decision and trying to figure out what the picture will be in 2 years is pointless.
The key for MU is winning and winning big. Having him exposed to that with his buddies on the team will make it very appealing for him to play at MU.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on October 08, 2012, 09:18:45 PM
I don't really share the optimism gleaned from this article. Yes, its great he's mentioning the local schools at the top, but he's only a Soph and the real competition hasn't even started yet. The scary part of the article is that it mentions his interest in finding a low post-centric offense, a quality that MU in no way possesses. If we get him its because of some combination of Duane's influence, wanting to stay home, and Buzz's work ethic. I think its far more likely he ends up deciding to go somewhere like GTown or Kentucky; a school with a proven track record of placing big men in the lottery.
That was my first thought. However, he will be watching Gardner play two more years at MU and Gardner consistantly gets the ball in the low post. I think the bigger part of the equation is who Wisconsin and MU have at center to compete with him for playing time. Right now the center spot is open on both rosters for 2015.
We know Buzz is pretty straight with his guys.
The pitch will be:
"I will bust your balls and get the most out of you everyday. If you work your ass off, you will have success as a player and as a person." (or something similar).
Everything else is window dressing. If Diamond really believes that Buzz will get the most out of him, and he's comfortable taking on that challenge (some guys aren't), he'll go to MU.
Georgetown can sell skill development, UK can sell recent NBA draftees, UW can sell, well, I don't know what they can sell.
Buzz can sell maximizing talent. His approach isn't for everybody.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on October 09, 2012, 10:44:41 AM
Georgetown can sell skill development, UK can sell recent NBA draftees, UW can sell, well, I don't know what they can sell.
Flopping.
UW can sell the Stiemsma plan. Be a highly ranked big man recruit from WI, and then get completely under-utilized in the swing so you have to spend a couple years riding busses in the D-league to unlearn everything Bo taught you and develop the necessary skills to contribute at the next level.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on October 09, 2012, 10:44:41 AM
Buzz can sell maximizing talent. His approach isn't for everybody.
This is the key. Wes was a longshot coming out of high school to make the NBA (150-1?) Lazar was probably 500-1, DJO 1000-1 and Jimmy and Jae were (oddswise) in Jim Carrey Dumb and Dumberland. NOBODY can match that over the last four years. Stack that up against "developing" an Anthony Davis or a Patrick Ewing and I like our chances. The problem is that MU isn't Kentucky or even Georgetown as a "program", so Buzz will be (as always with any bluechip) fighting an uphill battle.
Well, if he wants to go to a somewhere he can post up. He should look at how Butch and Steimsma were used ;D Before he ever considers UW. He will be wasted on the perimeter at UW in the Swing.(at least 50% of the time) Then take a look at how Gardner will be used by Buzz next couple of years and how he was used last year.
I thought this was called the Brian Butch plan, though it may later be renamed the Evan Anderson rule-not sure.
Quote from: Litehouse on October 09, 2012, 11:40:22 AM
UW can sell the Stiemsma plan. Be a highly ranked big man recruit from WI, and then get completely under-utilized in the swing so you have to spend a couple years riding busses in the D-league to unlearn everything Bo taught you and develop the necessary skills to contribute at the next level.
Quote from: Litehouse on October 09, 2012, 11:40:22 AM
UW can sell the Stiemsma plan. Be a highly ranked big man recruit from WI, and then get completely under-utilized in the swing so you have to spend a couple years riding busses in the D-league to unlearn everything Bo taught you and develop the necessary skills to contribute at the next level.
My UW basketball friend is livid when he watches the Celtics now, and remarks constantly how he misused Steimsma. He looks more like the type player he did in high school now with the Celtics than he ever did at UW.
Now he also argues that Butch was not the same player and was used just fine given a somewhat limited skill set.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on October 09, 2012, 09:58:08 AM
I get your point, but I think mine still holds. Yes, it is easier to get 6'10 centers into the association than it is to get 6'2 guards there. I have no doubt that Buzz would be able to develop Stone into a lottery pick. But I also don't really doubt that Rob Jeter could do the same at UWM. This goes back to your point that its just not that hard to do if you have an athletic, true center.
But if you are Stone, why take any risk at all? You only get one shot at this whole thing, so why be the guinea pig at a school with almost no history of quality big men? Yes, you may think you are a can't-miss prospect, but something big has to be there to sway you if you think that there is any doubt at all about MU's style of offense or ability to develop bigs. What is our pitch going to be after JT3 comes in with a video comparing Stone to Ewing, Mourning, Monroe, Hibbert and Mutumbo? Come to MU, you can play with your friend Duane and your parents can sit in the front row every game? That may be good enough, but from the sound of it, he seems to want a little more focus on an interior offense and receiving the coaching he needs to be a great center. I don't blame him for it, and I agree that if Gardner can start averaging 16 and 8, we might look a bit more appealing.
Definitely a fair point as well. I sure hope Davante can stay healthy this year. I can see MU playing through DG a lot, and him almost becoming a focal point of the offensive scheme - with a lot of cutters through the lane, feed post, relocate off of a double down on DG, spot up for open 3. Think it is entirely possible for DG to average 16 and 8 if his conditioning allows him to play 25-27 minutes per game. That happens and Buzz has a good example to point to with regard to a developing big in his program...and one who came in as a 3 star...at 295lbs.
If we can get Embiid, that could help us as well, especially if he came in and had a stellar freshman season. With possible on-and-done talk popping up for him, it might help us with Stone as he won't really be pressured to announce his decision for another 2 years, by which time Embiid could either have established himself as a solid player here or (unlikely, but possibly) blown up as a one-and-done big.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 09, 2012, 11:58:42 AM
My UW basketball friend is livid when he watches the Celtics now, and remarks constantly how he misused Steimsma. He looks more like the type player he did in high school now with the Celtics than he ever did at UW.
Now he also argues that Butch was not the same player and was used just fine given a somewhat limited skill set.
Butch may have been worse. He was skinny and athletic in HS and moved really well. Then he bulked up (in a bad way) in college, lost his mobility, and turned into a 3-point shooting novelty.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 09, 2012, 11:58:42 AM
My UW basketball friend is livid when he watches the Celtics now, and remarks constantly how he misused Steimsma. He looks more like the type player he did in high school now with the Celtics than he ever did at UW.
Now he also argues that Butch was not the same player and was used just fine given a somewhat limited skill set.
What are the worst college stats for a player who made it to the NBA? Steimsma's got to be up there, right?
Quote from: jmayer1 on October 09, 2012, 09:40:22 AM
What part of comparing Gardner's CAREER to Stone's freshman season did you not understand?
Seemed pretty clear to me. With the projected improvement over the next two years---over his entire 4-year
CAREER--Gardner's ValueAdd will peak at 5.54.
Any frosh who can come in at 5.55 or better in his first season will have surpassed him.
My point is that it won't take a performance like Anthony Davis. Otto Porter's 6.08 Value Add would be enough.
Clear enough for you?
Quote from: The Equalizer on October 09, 2012, 05:36:31 PM
Seemed pretty clear to me. With the projected improvement over the next two years---over his entire 4-year CAREER--Gardner's ValueAdd will peak at 5.54.
Any frosh who can come in at 5.55 or better in his first season will have surpassed him.
My point is that it won't take a performance like Anthony Davis. Otto Porter's 6.08 Value Add would be enough.
Clear enough for you?
Yeah, I think that's pretty clear.
Gardner's a nice player, but he's no Neon Boudeaux. Stone is a Neon Boudeaux.
If you're thinking Neon Boudeaux...wtf...?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Neon+Boudeaux (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Neon+Boudeaux)
Quote from: Litehouse on October 09, 2012, 01:45:17 PM
Butch may have been worse. He was skinny and athletic in HS and moved really well. Then he bulked up (in a bad way) in college, lost his mobility, and turned into a 3-point shooting novelty.
A mcdonalds Mike Kinsella.
Quote from: The Equalizer on October 09, 2012, 05:36:31 PM
Seemed pretty clear to me. With the projected improvement over the next two years---over his entire 4-year CAREER--Gardner's ValueAdd will peak at 5.54.
Any frosh who can come in at 5.55 or better in his first season will have surpassed him.
My point is that it won't take a performance like Anthony Davis. Otto Porter's 6.08 Value Add would be enough.
Clear enough for you?
Yes, it's clear you either can't comprehend or can't do basic addition. Yes, it wouldn't take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's senior season (projected), but it would take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's career (projected). Not sure if you didn't understand the pont, but you are not taking into account the total value add from Gardner's 1st 3 seasons for some reason.
These players success at MU were significantly limited by injuries:
Fulce
Kinsella
Otule
Luter
Is there anyone else someone can think of?
Also Diener, McNeal and James had season ending injuries.
Quote from: bilsu on October 10, 2012, 02:22:06 PM
These players success at MU were significantly limited by injuries:
Fulce
Kinsella
Otule
Luter
Is there anyone else someone can think of?
Also Diener, McNeal and James had season ending injuries.
Does Anthony Candelino falling from the balcony at the Old Gym count? He wasn't the same after that....Rumor was he was pushed by Nethen ;)
Quote from: bilsu on October 10, 2012, 02:22:06 PM
These players success at MU were significantly limited by injuries:
Fulce
Kinsella
Otule
Luter
Is there anyone else someone can think of?
Also Diener, McNeal and James had season ending injuries.
Jamil Lott.
Quote from: jmayer1 on October 10, 2012, 08:04:23 AM
Yes, it's clear you either can't comprehend or can't do basic addition. Yes, it wouldn't take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's senior season (projected), but it would take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's career (projected). Not sure if you didn't understand the pont, but you are not taking into account the total value add from Gardner's 1st 3 seasons for some reason.
Under this theory Trevor Powell had a bigger impact at MU over his career than Dwyane Wade.
Quote from: The Equalizer on October 10, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
Under this theory Trevor Powell had a bigger impact at MU over his career than Dwayne Wade.
Dwayne Wade never played for Marquette.
Quote from: reinko on October 10, 2012, 03:28:06 PM
Dwayne Wade never played for Marquette.
+1. If there was any question whether TheEquilizer was a troll it is now answered.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 10, 2012, 03:34:10 PM
+1. If there was any question whether TheEquilizer was a troll it is now answered.
Just because he didn't immediately remember the odd way Dwyane Wade spells his name doesn't mean he's a troll.
Quote from: The Equalizer on October 10, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
Under this theory Trevor Powell had a bigger impact at MU over his career than Dwayne Wade.
What theory? Want to change the goalposts a little more? You're the one that brought up value add, to make this a pure numbers debate. How does a qualitative measure of "impact" factor into that.
This is the original post:
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on October 08, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
no way his freshman year has as much impact as gardner, who should be our best player this year depending on who breaks out. he would literally have to be close to anthony davis as a freshman to compare to gardner's career, but obviously his upside could give him a much greater season than gardner's best season.
This is your nonsensical followup, where you twist Bama's point:
Quote from: The Equalizer on October 08, 2012, 09:15:58 PM
I know you're high on Gardner, but Gardner's ValueAdd is projected to be 4.87 this year, and 5.54 in 2014. That's very good, but a lot closer to Otto Porter's frosh neighborhood (6.08) than Davis' (12.35).
It's not my fault you can comprehend. We are comparing Gardner's total career projected value add to Stone's freshman season projected value add. Any other discussion of "impact" is off the mark. I'm done with this argument. Either you are too ignorant or too stubborn to admit you were wrong in your original reply.
Where are the editors for this board?
Quote from: jmayer1 on October 10, 2012, 04:00:10 PM
What theory? Want to change the goalposts a little more? You're the one that brought up value add, to make this a pure numbers debate. How does a qualitative measure of "impact" factor into that.
This is the original post:
This is your nonsensical followup, where you twist Bama's point:
It's not my fault you can comprehend. We are comparing Gardner's total career projected value add to Stone's freshman season projected value add. Any other discussion of "impact" is off the mark. I'm done with this argument. Either you are too ignorant or too stubborn to admit you were wrong in your original reply.
Perhaps you should let 'bama speak for himself. The last comment I made regarding ValueAdd he repsonded that I made "an excellent, excellent point" and revised (and improved) his forumula for projecting the total team value in future years.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33707.0
In this case, I don't think its appropriate to simply 'add toghether' multiple years to determine the total "impact" of a player's career. Thats not "moving the goalpost" or "lacking comprehsion" as you put it. Its disagreeing with the underlying premise.
My opinion is that if Gardner never achieves better than 5.54, then Porter has already had a greater impact in one season at Georgetown than Gardner will over his career at MU. My opinion. You don't have to agree.
But the only one lacking comprehension here is you, given that you can't grasp that these are two different OPINIONS on how to value the career of a four-year player like Gardner versus a one-and-done or two-and-done player.
If your point (and his) is that you can simply add a player's ValueAdd together across multiple years to calculate an overall "impact" then I think you (and he) are wrong, and I'll cite the Porter/Gardner (and Wade/Powell) comparisions as examples.
I hope we "value add" him with a LOI.
Quote from: msbjim on October 10, 2012, 04:10:01 PM
Where are the editors for this board?
This board has editors???
Anyone who thinks a one and done 6.08 guy is more impactful than a 4 year contributor with a single year high of 5.54 has a very uninformed opinion.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 10, 2012, 08:20:06 PM
This board has editors???
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what Jim is requesting.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 11, 2012, 07:10:38 AM
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what Jim is requesting.
A banning for himself, of course.
Quote from: The Equalizer on October 10, 2012, 07:42:48 PM
My opinion is that if Gardner never achieves better than 5.54, then Porter has already had a greater impact in one season at Georgetown than Gardner will over his career at MU.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone re. value add because I haven't read enough about it to know how it works. But, how about if you put it this way: Your opinion is that if Gardner never achieves better than 5.54, then Porter had a greater impact in his only season at Georgetown, with a 6.08 (or whatever it was), than Gardner had in any of his seasons at MU.
I guess that would prove your point that Porter's first season was better than any season Gardner has had or is likely to have at MU. I don't eve know if that's what you're arguing, though. What's more, who gives crap?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 10, 2012, 08:32:49 PM
Anyone who thinks a one and done 6.08 guy is more impactful than a 4 year contributor with a single year high of 5.54 has a very uninformed opinion.
You are not counting in opportunity costs. If you get a 1&done guy, you have 3 years of another recruit(s).
Let's look at gardner as a senior vs the former 1-2 players in the nation. I'll say who I would pick for overall impact:
Davis: Davis hands down and it isn't even close.
Drummond: 10/8/3 as a Frosh Gardner has a better career.
Barnes: 16/6 as a Frosh. Stayed a 2nd year. I would rather have Barnes than Gardner
Sullinger: 17/10 as a Frosh. Stayed a 2nd year. Sullinger's career beats Gardner's.
Favors: 12/8 as a Frosh. Gardner has a better career.
Bradley: 11/3 as a Frosh. Gardner has the better career.
So based on overall impact, 3 players had a bigger impact than Gardner will in his whole career, IMO. There is always a chance a 1-Done player stays for a second year. Not to mention all the prestige and coverage that comes with top recruit.
Has anybody heard anything about Stone attending tonight?
Quote from: Wade for President on October 12, 2012, 12:30:27 PM
Has anybody heard anything about Stone attending tonight?
Yes. He'll reportedly be there, with fellow Milwaukee-area players Wilson, Burton, McKay and TJ Schlundt.
I am dying to get a one and done. Hoping Stone is our first.