"Dwyane Wade showed in Sunday's big Miami win that he's still talented. But he also may be the league's dirtiest player. I wonder sometimes if he needs that anger management more than Ron Artest. I seems more than coincidence now with Wade injuring so many players, and always after he didn't get a call or someone made a play against him. There was Wade last year causing Rajon Rondo's dislocated elbow after a Rondo steal from him. Wade also ran across the floor with a shoulder block into Paul Pierce in that series. There was Wade breaking Kobe's nose in the All-Star game, of all places, after Kobe put a move on him that froze him and left Wade looking bad. There was Wade throwing Richard Hamilton into the stands in Miami after Hamilton had made some driving plays against him. There was Wade's body block from behind against Darren Collison in this series after a steal. Wade seems to have for some reason become something of a menace and a cheap shot player and the NBA needs to begin paying attention to the blind shots before someone really gets hurt."
Who is Sam Smith?
He doesn't even mention that Wade shaves little lines into his hair for each player he intentionally injures. He just had one for the 2nd half of this season thanks to Kobe's nose.
All good points by Sam Smith.
I agree completely with him, sad that so many have the MU blinders on.
Dwyane Wade could bring a cattle prod on the court and I'd still love the man. Remember him dunking all over UK like it was yesterday.
Without Wade and Buzz our basketball wouldn't have been near as exciting the past decade.
I'm with you Stone Cold. UK memory gives Dwade a lot of hall passes in my book.
F sam smith....no one dirtier than Jordan, pippen and rodman.
How does the saying go if you cant beat them join them?
or in this case ..."if he doesnt join them then beat him?"
SOur grapes from a loser chicago writer
As much as I, and we, love him, for fans of most other teams he is linked to Lebron as the two that broke Cleveland's heart - and stole Cleveland's heart.
My 14 year old daughter ended up in an ambulance for 40 minutes on our way to the Cleveland rounds last year (she ended up fine). In the ambulance she was asked why she was coming to see Marquette instead of Ohio State and, and then asked for her assurance that she didn't like D-Wade. In the hospital the doctor asked similar questions, and he asked her if I liked Wade (I was still not in the room) and she said he was a hero of mine, the doctors followed-up with, "How can he like a murderer?" My daughter was shocked, not knowing i had the jersey of a murderer, and asked., "D-Wade killed someone?" The doctor responded, "We'll, he convinced Lebron to leave the city - same thing."
I tell this little antecdote - which obviously was part of keeping the mood light by medical professionals - just to point out that while yes we have blinders on for Wade, I do think many have blinders on AGAINST Wade and Lebron. Every accomplishment will be belittled (morning ESPN Monday referred to Lebron-haters as 'ex-boyfriend/girlfriends' who will never accept accomplishments), and faults will be magnafied, and vice versa. There's just no middle ground on Lebron-Wade, as the two will be tied closely together forever in the public mind.
Quote from: JDuquaine on May 23, 2012, 01:43:28 PM
All good points by Sam Smith.
I agree completely with him, sad that so many have the MU blinders on.
Totally no blinders on here.
I'm astonished to think that a guy who is 6'3 (maybe) can be called the dirtiest player in the league with Ron Artest running around. Not to mention the dozens of others I could name that are FAR worse than Wade.
This hack is just trying to get his name out there, and thanks to people like us he has.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on May 23, 2012, 02:18:10 PM
As much as I, and we, love him, for fans of most other teams he is linked to Lebron as the two that broke Cleveland's heart - and stole Cleveland's heart.
My 14 year old daughter ended up in an ambulance for 40 minutes on our way to the Cleveland rounds last year (she ended up fine). In the ambulance she was asked why she was coming to see Marquette instead of Ohio State and, and then asked for her assurance that she didn't like D-Wade. In the hospital the doctor asked similar questions, and he asked her if I liked Wade (I was still not in the room) and she said he was a hero of mine, the doctors followed-up with, "How can he like a murderer?" My daughter was shocked, not knowing i had the jersey of a murderer, and asked., "D-Wade killed someone?" The doctor responded, "We'll, he convinced Lebron to leave the city - same thing."
I tell this little antecdote - which obviously was part of keeping the mood light by medical professionals - just to point out that while yes we have blinders on for Wade, I do think many have blinders on AGAINST Wade and Lebron. Every accomplishment will be belittled (morning ESPN Monday referred to Lebron-haters as 'ex-boyfriend/girlfriends' who will never accept accomplishments), and faults will be magnafied, and vice versa. There's just no middle ground on Lebron-Wade, as the two will be tied closely together forever in the public mind.
agree with this. they basically need to win. Don't like the influence Lebron has had on Wade and he should nut up a little more. But at the end of the day I'll always support him.
I'm a pretty big Sam Smith fan and think he's a pretty damn good basketball writer and was disappointed when he left the Tribune. Saying Wade's the dirtiest player in the NBA is way over the line, but he does piece together some pretty interesting incidents.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 23, 2012, 02:18:54 PM
This hack is just trying to get his name out there, and thanks to people like us he has.
Regardless of your view of his opinion, Sam Smith hardly is a hack trying to get his name out there. The dude's covered the NBA for about three decades, wrote the definitive book on Michael Jordan and has been honored by the Basketball Hall of Fame for his work.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 02:28:48 PM
Regardless of your view of his opinion, Sam Smith hardly is a hack trying to get his name out there. The dude's covered the NBA for about three decades, wrote the definitive book on Michael Jordan and has been honored by the Basketball Hall of Fame for his work.
You beat me to it which is good because you said better than I would have. +1
I love Wade and all that he has done for MU. But, he has gone from the superstar that seemed grounded to the guy who the media now refer to as the whiny guy who complains about every call and has articles like the one Sam Smith wrote about him. While some of the criticism he receives may be the result of his being with LeBron, the truth is that Wade does act entitled by complaining to the refs seemingly all the time -even when the ball is in play - and is guilty on a lot of the anecdotes Sam Smith is referring to. I love Wade, but a little humble pie would do him a world of good.
I like Wade less and less every year, and this article just highlights some of the reasons why.
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 23, 2012, 01:47:20 PM
Dwyane Wade could bring a cattle prod on the court and I'd still love the man. Remember him dunking all over UK like it was yesterday.
Without Wade and Buzz our basketball wouldn't have been near as exciting the past decade.
Thank you. End of subject as far as I'm concerned. The piling on of Wade this year because of his "South Beach", Lebron affiliation is totally out of hand. Typical media fabrication that's exploding.
Some of the world's best athletes ever competed this same way. Tell Sam Smith to go re-watch some Larry Legend film.
I doubt he is the league's dirtiest player, but it's not out of the question that he would be in the conversation. Smith cites a number of examples.
Of course, how often are great players accused of being dirty? In varying degrees, I would include Charles Barkley, Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, Dennis Rodman, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Love.
Quote from: NickelDimer on May 23, 2012, 03:36:14 PM
Thank you. End of subject as far as I'm concerned. The piling on of Wade this year because of his "South Beach", Lebron affiliation is totally out of hand. Typical media fabrication that's exploding.
Some of the world's best athletes ever competed this same way. Tell Sam Smith to go re-watch some Larry Legend film.
While I do feel that most of the grief given to Wade is a product of the team he plays for, I really do get the impression that these last couple of seasons have been very frustrating for him. Remember, the Heat were going to roll through last season, rack up 70+ wins and start winning championships 1-7. That obviously didn't work out and this season (before an ACL tear) they weren't even the best team in the conference...and they knew it.
I remember watching Travis Diener get incredibly frustrated playing with Scott Merritt. I always thought that it drove TD crazy that a long, lean 6'10" athlete could never quite get it all together on the basketball court because Diener would have given ANYTHING to have Merritt's size and athleticism. I can't help but think that Wade is going through something similar.
Wade is playing along side quite possibly the most physically-gifted basketball player ever and yet LeBron can't quite seem to get it all together, especially when his team needs him most. LBJ can put his team on his shoulders and put up an unreal stat line of 40-18-9, but he can also disappear for stretches in a blowout loss, settle for outside shots too often, gag at the FT line in crunch time and figuratively shrug his shoulders and say, "Oh well. We'll get 'em next game." That's got to wear on a competitor like Wade because you know he's thinking about all the damage he'd do if he were blessed with LBJ's size and athleticism. LeBron is satisfied with being the best basketball player on the planet and he
really hopes that his team wins a championship some day. He just doesn't seem to have that extra level of competitiveness.
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on May 23, 2012, 02:40:27 PM
I love Wade and all that he has done for MU. But, he has gone from the superstar that seemed grounded to the guy who the media now refer to as the whiny guy who complains about every call and has articles like the one Sam Smith wrote about him. While some of the criticism he receives may be the result of his being with LeBron, the truth is that Wade does act entitled by complaining to the refs seemingly all the time -even when the ball is in play - and is guilty on a lot of the anecdotes Sam Smith is referring to. I love Wade, but a little humble pie would do him a world of good.
So you're annoyed with him because other people are annoyed at him? Think for yourself much?
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 23, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
I doubt he is the league's dirtiest player, but it's not out of the question that he would be in the conversation. Smith cites a number of examples.
Of course, how often are great players accused of being dirty? In varying degrees, I would include Charles Barkley, Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, Dennis Rodman, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Love.
^This. I love how we all fawn over Maurice Lucas and him being known as "The Enforcer" and what not... but b/c Wade gives some hard fouls in some BIG FREAKING GAMES, he's dirty and "entitled" or other BS.
This level of competitiveness, where players really do care that much about winning, is exactly what those of you who hate the NBA (or former fans) have been asking for for years!
This topic is going to go in one inevitable direction on this board. Those that love Wade will back him to the death, he could go on a shooting rampage and still be forgiven. Those that criticize Wade will be castigated by his supporters and will be seen automatically as Wade, and by association, Marquette haters.
My main issue is that it seems like Wade and LeBron are upset that this isn't easy. After their ridiculous celebration in Miami when James signed, the "once we get on the court, it's gonna be easy" and the "not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven" quotes came across like guys that thought the league would fall down at their feet and hand them the NBA title. Since it didn't happen, since the league and fanbases turned on them, they've come across as spoiled children. I definitely don't think playing with James has been good for Wade. James and Wade grew up watching the Michael Jordan that brought out fans in droves, that had fans in every city. They expected the same, but didn't get it, and their attitudes certainly haven't been the same since they donned the black hats, and Wade's repeated ugly fouls definitely aren't winning him more fans. I blame the NBA as much as anything for soft punishment on guys like Wade and World Peace, if Strickland plays again this postseason it will be a travesty...this is just one more reason I'd rather watch the college game.
I like success for the Marquette guys at the next level, but frankly, rarely have much interest in watching it, even when they are playing.
And to think we owe it all to Crean who taught Wade all he knows or ever will know.
Lots of people are bringing up Rodman, etc. Smith didn't call Wade the dirtiest player ever. He said he's the dirtiest right now.
I happen to disagree, because Artest World Something Or Other is still in the league; so I believe Sam is guilty of hyperbole here. But Wade has not had the kind of run befitting a player of his talent and standing. His latest cheap shot should have drawn a multi-game suspension.
I appreciate Wade for what he did for MU and still like to follow him. That doesn't mean he's beyond criticism. He's too good to have these lapses of class and judgment.
Sam Smith also isn't above criticism, but he has been one of the best in his business for a long, long time. Everybody should be as good at his or her job as Smith has been at his.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 23, 2012, 01:18:22 PM
Who is Sam Smith?
A Hall of Fame basketball writer
Bill Simmons called him the same...and meant it as compliment.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 23, 2012, 08:08:29 PM
And to think we owe it all to Crean who taught Wade all he knows or ever will know.
Wade had God given talent but Crean helped him reach his potential as have other coaches. Steve Novak's shot was taught to him by his father, yet Novak swears by Crean as a coach who helped him reach his potential. Diener, same.
This angers some people here.
Quote from: Goose on May 23, 2012, 01:48:57 PM
I'm with you Stone Cold. UK memory gives Dwade a lot of hall passes in my book.
I think the pressure is really on him now as his team is "supposed to win" as opposed to being an underdog. I will say this though, that final four has brought a lot of fans back from the seventies. I was at the DePaul game this year with about 25 of my fraternity brothers out of say the 100 I lived with during those four years from 70 to 74. That doesn't happen without DWade. I hope kids look up to him and somehow that translates into a future superstar attending Marquette.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 23, 2012, 04:30:27 PM
While I do feel that most of the grief given to Wade is a product of the team he plays for, I really do get the impression that these last couple of seasons have been very frustrating for him. Remember, the Heat were going to roll through last season, rack up 70+ wins and start winning championships 1-7. That obviously didn't work out and this season (before an ACL tear) they weren't even the best team in the conference...and they knew it.
Didn't Wade's team make the Finals last year after playing only one season together with plenty of holes?
Last week some of you had already written their obituary but they are up 3-2 despite missing a key player on their squad. It seems early to be saying this team is a failure in any way.
The Heat are the best team in the East with a healthy Rose or not on the Bulls.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 02:28:48 PM
Regardless of your view of his opinion, Sam Smith hardly is a hack trying to get his name out there. The dude's covered the NBA for about three decades, wrote the definitive book on Michael Jordan and has been honored by the Basketball Hall of Fame for his work.
Sam Smith is a solid writer and he did write the definitive book on Jordan, but the problem is that it wasn't all encompassing. No one has had the balls to right the true book because Smith knows he can't live in Chicago and do that and still draw breath. His book teetered on the edge of some of the Jordan shadows but did go down the various paths that would allow him to remain in the area. There is rumored to be a book that will do just that, but written by someone from outside Chicago which delves deeply into the true reasons for his retirement and the various off the court swept under the rug instances Jordan had.
The very same people that are saying Wade is a douche, dirty, or a jerk here will be the first ones in line to condemn that book about Jordan.
The topic of D-Wade is really tough an interesting issue for Marquette students and alumni from Chicago. i was born and raised in Chicago and never liked Wade but now im at Marquette and whenever I say I really dislike Wade Im pretty much told to transfer schools. In terms of Smith calling him a dirty player I dont think hes a dirty player but he complains so much because hes considered a superstar and thinks he should get every call. Thats what annoys me most. (That and he completely played the Bulls when he was a free agent)
Dwyane does complain about calls way to much, but the more I think about it, the more I think it may be the right think for him to do.
Derrick Rose drives to the basket like Wade, and often gets fouled yet nothing is called. Derrick never complains about it though, and the next time he still doesn't get a call.
I feel like when Wade complains he eventually gets the call.
Maybe if you have that type of game you should complain to try to get more calls?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 24, 2012, 06:42:26 AM
Dwyane does complain about calls way to much, but the more I think about it, the more I think it may be the right think for him to do.
Derrick Rose drives to the basket like Wade, and often gets fouled yet nothing is called. Derrick never complains about it though, and the next time he still doesn't get a call.
I feel like when Wade complains he eventually gets the call.
Maybe if you have that type of game you should complain to try to get more calls?
Have the guys that have a problem with Wade complaining to the officials even watched the NBA in the last 20 years? All Wade is doing is continuing a fine tradition of preferential treatment of superstars to the point that they complain to the refs almost every time they don't get a call. Name me an NBA superstar in the last 20 years that hasn't done this. It's endemic to the game.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 24, 2012, 06:54:11 AM
Have the guys that have a problem with Wade complaining to the officials even watched the NBA in the last 20 years? All Wade is doing is continuing a fine tradition of preferential treatment of superstars to the point that they complain to the refs almost every time they don't get a call. Name me an NBA superstar in the last 20 years that hasn't done this. It's endemic to the game.
Kobe Bryant is the #1 ref pusher imo.
TT, didn't mean to quote you specifically, guess that's what happens when I don't post much when the season is over.
Yes, Kobe is bad...but all the "superstars" are bad after they've been in the league for a while.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 23, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
Sam Smith is a solid writer and he did write the definitive book on Jordan, but the problem is that it wasn't all encompassing. No one has had the balls to right the true book because Smith knows he can't live in Chicago and do that and still draw breath. His book teetered on the edge of some of the Jordan shadows but did go down the various paths that would allow him to remain in the area. There is rumored to be a book that will do just that, but written by someone from outside Chicago which delves deeply into the true reasons for his retirement and the various off the court swept under the rug instances Jordan had.
The very same people that are saying Wade is a douche, dirty, or a jerk here will be the first ones in line to condemn that book about Jordan.
Jordan's out of control gambling and Stern's requisite "suspension" through playing minor league baseball?
Tim Duncan does the Bo Ryan face every time a foul is called on him. Every. Single. Time.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 23, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
The very same people that are saying Wade is a douche, dirty, or a jerk here will be the first ones in line to condemn that book about Jordan.
I think most people in Chicago are pretty aware of Jordan's sleeziness. In fact, I'd argue that people in Chicago are much more aware of Jordan's antics than most people around the country.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 23, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
Didn't Wade's team make the Finals last year after playing only one season together with plenty of holes?
The Heat are the best team in the East with a healthy Rose or not on the Bulls.
When LeBron was doing his, "Not 1, not 2, not 3..." routine was he talking about championships or simply trips to the Finals?
With a healthy Rose, the Bulls would have beat the Heat in the Playoffs this season. Unless, of course, Stern preferred Miami, in which case his handpicked officiating crews could have swung some important games...
Quote from: Aughnanure on May 23, 2012, 04:52:52 PM
So you're annoyed with him because other people are annoyed at him? Think for yourself much?
When people complain on this board about other posters making personal attacks, isn't this what they are referring to? I have been on this site for many years now and enjoy it for its insight into MU basketball but I've enjoyed it less as time has gone on as threads invariably go off-topic and too often result in arguments that are not worth the time to read, let alone type. This is a perfect example.
To answer your question, the problem is not in the media reporting that Wade complains too often to refs, its that he actually does complain about calls way too often. As I said, I have always been a fan of Wade's, but my enthusiasm for him has waned as the years have gone by due to the sense of entitlement he has, as evidenced by his reaction to any calls that go against him and his recent tirade against Spoelstra.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 24, 2012, 09:09:31 AM
When LeBron was doing his, "Not 1, not 2, not 3..." routine was he talking about championships or simply trips to the Finals?
With a healthy Rose, the Bulls would have beat the Heat in the Playoffs this season. Unless, of course, Stern preferred Miami, in which case his handpicked officiating crews could have swung some important games...
They are in year 2 of this experiment, isn't that a bit early to saying it has been a failure?
You make is sound unequivocal that the Bulls would beat the Heat. I disagree that a healthy Bulls would have beaten a healthy Miami team. They split the season series. Didn't Rose play in the final matchup and Miami won the game?
The same remarks you are making about the officials fans used to say with the Jordan led Bulls.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 24, 2012, 07:23:48 AM
TT, didn't mean to quote you specifically, guess that's what happens when I don't post much when the season is over.
Yes, Kobe is bad...but all the "superstars" are bad after they've been in the league for a while.
No problem, I fully agree with you.
Quote from: LAZER on May 24, 2012, 08:32:10 AM
I think most people in Chicago are pretty aware of Jordan's sleeziness. In fact, I'd argue that people in Chicago are much more aware of Jordan's antics than most people around the country.
This.
Complete a-hole.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 24, 2012, 10:13:00 AM
They are in year 2 of this experiment, isn't that a bit early to saying it has been a failure?
You make is sound unequivocal that the Bulls would beat the Heat. I disagree that a healthy Bulls would have beaten a healthy Miami team. They split the season series. Didn't Rose play in the final matchup and Miami won the game?
The same remarks you are making about the officials fans used to say with the Jordan led Bulls.
Show me where I said the Heat were a failure?
They split the season series, including the 2 that Rose played in. No, he did not play in the most recent game where the Heat won. Either way, the Bulls were a better team than the Heat this season. It's unfortunate that we'll never know how the playoff match-up would have gone.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 02:28:48 PM
Regardless of your view of his opinion, Sam Smith hardly is a hack trying to get his name out there. The dude's covered the NBA for about three decades, wrote the definitive book on Michael Jordan and has been honored by the Basketball Hall of Fame for his work.
There's nothing more hack-ish and amateur-hour than calling an award winning, hall-of-fame writer a "hack" after he expressed an opinion that is different than the one you share about the sports team from your own geographic region.
"Rodgers is the most overrated QB in the league" (what a hack!!! That guy can't write!!)
Please. There are those who deserve to be condescended upon. The people whose opinions we can blow off. Those who look for being the anti to everything just for the sake of stirring the pot (see Bayless, Skip nationally; Pfeiffer, Steve "Sparky" Deuschnozzle, local). But a nationally recognized guy to say that says that a certain perception IS out there...like it or not.
I hated Jordan, but Sam Smith isn't a nobody. He carries a lot of weight in the league.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on May 24, 2012, 01:05:39 PM
There's nothing more hack-ish and amateur-hour than calling an award winning, hall-of-fame writer a "hack" after he expressed an opinion that is different than the one you share about the sports team from your own geographic region.
"Rodgers is the most overrated QB in the league" (what a hack!!! That guy can't write!!)
Please. There are those who deserve to be condescended upon. The people whose opinions we can blow off. Those who look for being the anti to everything just for the sake of stirring the pot (see Bayless, Skip nationally; Pfeiffer, Steve "Sparky" Deuschnozzle, local). But a nationally recognized guy to say that says that a certain perception IS out there...like it or not.
I hated Jordan, but Sam Smith isn't a nobody. He carries a lot of weight in the league.
So just to be clear. Once a guy has his name in Hall of Fame, anything he writes should be treated as gospel?
bitch please.
Wade's latest quote from the Miami Herald:
Wade said he admired the way Shaquille O'Neal used to take blow after blow and not lose his temper or his concentration. LeBron James has not let Danny Granger — assessed three technical fouls — rattle him. Both said they'd like to see Granger play Thursday, despite a twisted ankle, because they hate when teams lean on excuses.
"There's still something inside me from the Kentucky game when they said Keith Bogans wasn't 100 percent," Wade said with a laugh of Marquette's victory over the Wildcats.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/24/2814820/miami-heat-series-with-indiana.html#storylink=cpy
Wade has his ugly spots, but he's built a ton of basketball equity with me.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 23, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
Sam Smith is a solid writer and he did write the definitive book on Jordan, but the problem is that it wasn't all encompassing. No one has had the balls to right the true book because Smith knows he can't live in Chicago and do that and still draw breath. His book teetered on the edge of some of the Jordan shadows but did go down the various paths that would allow him to remain in the area. There is rumored to be a book that will do just that, but written by someone from outside Chicago which delves deeply into the true reasons for his retirement and the various off the court swept under the rug instances Jordan had.
Sam Smith write "The Jordan Rules" in 1991, so there isn't going to be anything about Jordan's retirement in there.
There was a book called "Michael and Me" which was about the huge amount Jordan gambled, and Armen Katayain (sp) wrote a book where he said he overhead Jordan discussing the point spread on the phone before a game. If either of those authors had more info about why Jordan "really" retired, he would've certainly included it.
And I don't buy for a second any nonsense about not being able to say something bad about MJ in Chicago. If an author had enough to write a book titled, "Jordan is a Douche Who Had to Retire Because of Gambling," he/she would be able to sell thousands of copies while doing a book signing in downtown Chicago. It wouldn't take balls, just facts.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2012, 01:22:41 PM
So just to be clear. Once a guy has his name in Hall of Fame, anything he writes should be treated as gospel?
bitch please.
I think the point is that an obviously wise, educated person should be able to rise above such ad hominems in stating your objection.
Rather than dispute Smith's opinion, using evidence to support your contention (as he did to support his), you simply insult him, showing a severe lack of your own knowledge in the process.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2012, 07:12:55 AM
Kobe Bryant is the #1 ref pusher imo.
I'd go Tim Duncan. There's really no wrong answer.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2012, 01:22:41 PM
So just to be clear. Once a guy has his name in Hall of Fame, anything he writes should be treated as gospel?
bitch please.
If you actually read my earlier post, you'd have seen me say that Smith isn't immune to criticism, either. Nobody here is saying he is. Those of us who know who Smith is are just saying he deserves respect because he has earned it through his body of work. I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope you can say the same about yourself.
As for Smith being "afraid" to write the truth about Jordan, that's ridiculous. After "Jordan Rules," I was at press conferences in which Jordan refused to talk to Smith; it didn't bother Sam in the least. Most of us in the credible media weren't out to be Jordan's pal.
Sam's newspaper job was reporting the facts, and his book was quite a revelation at the time. Sure, it upset some M.J. fans, but it's not as if the check-out lady at the local Jewels refused to bag Sam's groceries because he had written his book. There wasn't some kind of hit out on Sam as if he were the NBA-writer version of Salman Rushdie.
I know I'd enjoy a follow-up by Smith -- or anybody else with inside knowledge -- tracking Jordan to the present.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 24, 2012, 10:48:38 AM
Show me where I said the Heat were a failure?
They split the season series, including the 2 that Rose played in. No, he did not play in the most recent game where the Heat won. Either way, the Bulls were a better team than the Heat this season. It's unfortunate that we'll never know how the playoff match-up would have gone.
Heat played a tougher schedule than the Bulls. They were the only team in the NBA to register double digit wins against the top 5 teams in the league. http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team
They went to the Finals last year and will be the odds on favorites to represent the East this year despite opinions here and elsewhere to the contrary.
Remember the talk that even with Rose out they would win their first round series and could still win the title? They couldn't even get out of the first round. The regular season in the NBA is not where champions are made. The Heat often looked bored. They are the better team and the Bulls play against the 76ers only confirms it.
You did not say they were a failure. Instead, you said it wasn't working for them and one of the big 3 had to be traded. "Wade, LeBron and Bosh don't fit together. They never did." One season has you thinking they never did? They make it to the NBA Finals and yet they don't fit together? They'll likely make it again in 10 days and they don't fit together? Then you go on to say you wouldn't be surprised to see the Heat win it this year because the NBA conspiracy office is going to make it happen. Same things fans against the Bulls said during the Jordan era time and again.
Quote from: MU82 on May 24, 2012, 04:05:35 PM
If you actually read my earlier post, you'd have seen me say that Smith isn't immune to criticism, either. Nobody here is saying he is. Those of us who know who Smith is are just saying he deserves respect because he has earned it through his body of work. I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope you can say the same about yourself.
As for Smith being "afraid" to write the truth about Jordan, that's ridiculous. After "Jordan Rules," I was at press conferences in which Jordan refused to talk to Smith; it didn't bother Sam in the least. Most of us in the credible media weren't out to be Jordan's pal.
Sam's newspaper job was reporting the facts, and his book was quite a revelation at the time. Sure, it upset some M.J. fans, but it's not as if the check-out lady at the local Jewels refused to bag Sam's groceries because he had written his book. There wasn't some kind of hit out on Sam as if he were the NBA-writer version of Salman Rushdie.
I know I'd enjoy a follow-up by Smith -- or anybody else with inside knowledge -- tracking Jordan to the present.
I read what you said, but I wasn't responding to you. Unless you are also, Niv.
I might be dating myself as far as when I stopped watching NBA games, but I have no doubt that Isiah Thomas and John Stockton were by far the dirtiest players of their time. I was always torn re. Thomas because I grew up a Hoosier fan (thankfully, I gave that up when I got to MU).
Anyway, Wade has a lot of equity with me and many other MU fans because of his couple of years of play and the relatively good example he has set in the NBA since 2003. I still wish he'd cut out the crybaby and cheap shot crap and just play. Of course, it is the NBA so that's just what happens and that's why I don't watch it - that and the slowness of the game.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 24, 2012, 10:10:04 PM
Heat played a tougher schedule than the Bulls. They were the only team in the NBA to register double digit wins against the top 5 teams in the league. http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team
They went to the Finals last year and will be the odds on favorites to represent the East this year despite opinions here and elsewhere to the contrary.
Remember the talk that even with Rose out they would win their first round series and could still win the title? They couldn't even get out of the first round. The regular season in the NBA is not where champions are made. The Heat often looked bored. They are the better team and the Bulls play against the 76ers only confirms it.
You did not say they were a failure. Instead, you said it wasn't working for them and one of the big 3 had to be traded. "Wade, LeBron and Bosh don't fit together. They never did." One season has you thinking they never did? They make it to the NBA Finals and yet they don't fit together? They'll likely make it again in 10 days and they don't fit together? Then you go on to say you wouldn't be surprised to see the Heat win it this year because the NBA conspiracy office is going to make it happen. Same things fans against the Bulls said during the Jordan era time and again.
Again, I never said that one of the big 3 had to be traded nor did I say that the Heat would win only this season because of a conspiracy. You're obviously either looking for a fight by making things up or you're just not very bright and have limited reading comprehension skills.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 24, 2012, 10:10:04 PM
Heat played a tougher schedule than the Bulls. They were the only team in the NBA to register double digit wins against the top 5 teams in the league. http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team
They went to the Finals last year and will be the odds on favorites to represent the East this year despite opinions here and elsewhere to the contrary.
Remember the talk that even with Rose out they would win their first round series and could still win the title? They couldn't even get out of the first round. The regular season in the NBA is not where champions are made. The Heat often looked bored. They are the better team and the Bulls play against the 76ers only confirms it.
You did not say they were a failure. Instead, you said it wasn't working for them and one of the big 3 had to be traded. "Wade, LeBron and Bosh don't fit together. They never did." One season has you thinking they never did? They make it to the NBA Finals and yet they don't fit together? They'll likely make it again in 10 days and they don't fit together? Then you go on to say you wouldn't be surprised to see the Heat win it this year because the NBA conspiracy office is going to make it happen. Same things fans against the Bulls said during the Jordan era time and again.
The bulls would have beat the sixers if noah didn't also get hurt.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2012, 01:22:41 PM
Once a guy has his name in Hall of Fame, anything he writes should be treated as gospel?
That isn't what he's saying at all. Why would we treat HOFers opinions like trumped up stories written down 100 years after the events in question.
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 25, 2012, 09:03:07 AM
That isn't what he's saying at all. Why would we treat HOFers opinions like trumped up stories written down 100 years after the events in question.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff32/evildrew81/scary%20stuff/Joker.gif)
Wade was superlative last night.
Quote from: patso on May 25, 2012, 11:43:45 AM
Wade was superlative last night.
Thank you Ms. Union.
Quote from: slingkong on May 25, 2012, 07:24:56 AM
I might be dating myself as far as when I stopped watching NBA games, but I have no doubt that Isiah Thomas and John Stockton were by far the dirtiest players of their time. I was always torn re. Thomas because I grew up a Hoosier fan (thankfully, I gave that up when I got to MU).
Anyway, Wade has a lot of equity with me and many other MU fans because of his couple of years of play and the relatively good example he has set in the NBA since 2003. I still wish he'd cut out the crybaby and cheap shot crap and just play. Of course, it is the NBA so that's just what happens and that's why I don't watch it - that and the slowness of the game.
Isaiah Thomas wasn't even the dirtiest player on his team - Rick Mahorn took that title, followed by Bill Lambier. I've never heard anybody say John Stockton was a dirty player.
Quote from: Norm on May 25, 2012, 01:47:38 PM
Isaiah Thomas wasn't even the dirtiest player on his team - Rick Mahorn took that title, followed by Bill Lambier. I've never heard anybody say John Stockton was a dirty player.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/dirtiest/players.html
see #5.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 24, 2012, 10:10:04 PMRemember the talk that even with Rose out they would win their first round series and could still win the title? They couldn't even get out of the first round. The regular season in the NBA is not where champions are made. The Heat often looked bored. They are the better team and the Bulls play against the 76ers only confirms it.
Wow. In terms of NBA talk, that's possibly the stupidest thing ever written on this website. So the Bulls are going to be judged based on how they played not only without Rose, but without Noah as well? And let's not forget that this 76ers team has taken Boston to a Game 7, so while they may not be world-beaters, they aren't a bad team. Imagine how the Heat would be playing right now if they lost James as well. That's what happened to the Bulls when they lost both Rose and Noah. They lost their best and third best player. How the Bulls played against the 76ers confirms absolutely nothing, except that when a team loses two of their top three players and has to play against a playoff team, it's tough to win. If OKC lost Durant and Harden, if the Spurs lost Parker and Ginobli, or if Boston lost Rondo and Pierce, all of them would lose whatever series they were playing against a healthy playoff team, I don't care who it is.
Sorry, but when you go through the circumstances the Bulls did, that judgment is impossible to make. Would the Heat have beaten the Bulls this year? Possibly. I think that while the Bulls are clearly a better regular-season team, they're not as good a playoff team. But to say that because they lost to the Sixers under those circumstances that's the proof, that's just full-frontal-lobotomy level dumb.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 25, 2012, 02:52:24 PM
Wow. In terms of NBA talk, that's possibly the stupidest thing ever written on this website. So the Bulls are going to be judged based on how they played not only without Rose, but without Noah as well? And let's not forget that this 76ers team has taken Boston to a Game 7, so while they may not be world-beaters, they aren't a bad team. Imagine how the Heat would be playing right now if they lost James as well. That's what happened to the Bulls when they lost both Rose and Noah. They lost their best and third best player. How the Bulls played against the 76ers confirms absolutely nothing, except that when a team loses two of their top three players and has to play against a playoff team, it's tough to win. If OKC lost Durant and Harden, if the Spurs lost Parker and Ginobli, or if Boston lost Rondo and Pierce, all of them would lose whatever series they were playing against a healthy playoff team, I don't care who it is.
Sorry, but when you go through the circumstances the Bulls did, that judgment is impossible to make. Would the Heat have beaten the Bulls this year? Possibly. I think that while the Bulls are clearly a better regular-season team, they're not as good a playoff team. But to say that because they lost to the Sixers under those circumstances that's the proof, that's just full-frontal-lobotomy level dumb.
Stupidest thing? Posts in this very thread far exceeded anything I said for stupidity.
Did the Bulls lose at HOME in game two with Noah playing? Yes, they did. I cannot tell you how many people here in the city were saying after Rose went down that they would still win the series and still have a great shot to go to the Finals. Yet the very next game they lost at home with Noah playing. Noah went down in the 3rd quarter of game 3, which the Bulls also lost. You give Boston much more praise then I do. They aren't very good yet they keep letting Philadelphia hang around in this series. I expect Miami, with or without Bosch to beat them in 6 or fewer games. The Bulls were a good team, but not the best team in the East this year. Unbalanced schedules. they performed much worse than the Heat did against the top teams and bowed out in the first round of the playoffs. Injuries, yes, but they still went down to the 8 seed.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 25, 2012, 08:40:23 AM
Again, I never said that one of the big 3 had to be traded nor did I say that the Heat would win only this season because of a conspiracy. You're obviously either looking for a fight by making things up or you're just not very bright and have limited reading comprehension skills.
You have me there. You are right, it was brewcity that said "On the other hand, one of the big three will probably be traded to try to coddle together a team rather than just a trio of stars and a collection of cast-offs." I am sorry.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 25, 2012, 11:01:48 AM
And if he had signed with the Bucks, a lot of people on here would love him. And if he had signed with the Knicks, then Knicks fans would love him and if he signed with (insert team), then (insert team) fans would have loved him. What's your point?
I couldn't stand Jim Edmonds when he played for the Cardinals, but when he signed with the Cubs, I cheered him on and hoped he did well even though I still thought he was an obnoxious guy. That's how being a fan works. We cheer for the guys on our teams.
Here is where we disagree, especially when that guy played for our university. And yes, some fans are douches and act that way when a player moves to another team. They are incapable of separating what they did for their team. I'll bet the correlation is striking when a coach leaves as well. Others of us cheer for our teams but are capable of not being haters of other players that moved on.
There is a difference.
I saw today that Urlacher might leave. If he does, he does. It would be disappointing but it is part of life. I'd thank him for his play for the Bears, but I extend no ill will if he choose to play elsewhere. Life is too short to be hating all the time. LeBron left, but he gave Cleveland their first taste of good basketball in what seems like forever. Crean left, but he gave us our first pinnacle success point in 30 years. Wade decided not to become a Bull and now he's a douche but Rodman as a Bull was applauded for his doucheness? Some people can move on and others cannot.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on May 25, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
That's true, but it would still be the same by the rest of the country.
We agree and I said as much. I believe I said the Chicago Bulls fans are similar to other fan bases. They are all hypocritical. Lakers fans with Shaq while he was on the team, then attitudes about him when he was off the team were different (just as they were prior to joining when he was with the Magic). Cavs fans when Lebron was on the Cavs and then when he wasn't on the Cavs a different reaction. Bulls fans with the idea of Lebron coming to Chicago or Wade coming to Chicago, then their attitude when they both didn't. Feel free to insert any number of other examples.
Did not say they were any different, merely pointing out the hypocrisy in this case about Wade here on Scoop and Sam Smith only feeds into that with his column. When the prodigal son doesn't return, pile on. If he had returned, no such anger. Hero time. As a fan of Wade for what he did at Marquette, people should be surprised when those of us that aren't Bulls fans are going to point out that hypocrisy.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 25, 2012, 10:14:44 PM
Did not say they were any different, merely pointing out the hypocrisy in this case about Wade here on Scoop and Sam Smith only feeds into that with his column.
Yes you did. It was another thread but you just said:
"Bulls fans in particular are incredible hypocrites"
Quote from: ZiggysFryB'oy on May 24, 2012, 10:26:51 PM
MJ love(d)(s) the white women.
Me too. So what's your point?
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 25, 2012, 10:14:44 PM
Stupidest thing? Posts in this very thread far exceeded anything I said for stupidity.
Did the Bulls lose at HOME in game two with Noah playing? Yes, they did. I cannot tell you how many people here in the city were saying after Rose went down that they would still win the series and still have a great shot to go to the Finals. Yet the very next game they lost at home with Noah playing. Noah went down in the 3rd quarter of game 3, which the Bulls also lost. You give Boston much more praise then I do. They aren't very good yet they keep letting Philadelphia hang around in this series. I expect Miami, with or without Bosch to beat them in 6 or fewer games. The Bulls were a good team, but not the best team in the East this year. Unbalanced schedules. they performed much worse than the Heat did against the top teams and bowed out in the first round of the playoffs. Injuries, yes, but they still went down to the 8 seed.
Still completely inane to compare the Bulls without Rose and Noah to the Heat without Bosh, or any of the teams that are completely healthy. If the Heat had lost James the first game of the playoffs they wouldn't be playing right now. Take the top two off any other team when the Bulls lost Rose and Noah and they'd be out too.
Sorry, but the comparison remains completely ridiculous. The Bulls also dominated Philly in Game 1 with Rose. So if he stays healthy, there's every chance they'd still be playing. But while I have no problem pointing out the ludicrous argument that the Bulls play against the Sixers proves they weren't as good as the Heat, I also don't think that their play with Rose against the Sixers is definitive proof that they were the best. Neither is conclusive. The only thing that would have been to evaluate how well the teams did if both stayed healthy. Didn't happen, so the analysis simply cannot be made.
Maybe there's something there. Maybe not.
Here's a clip of Dr. J and Larry Bird taking their share of cheap shots at each other. Especially the Good Doc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u4oF34p3-rQ
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 25, 2012, 10:14:44 PM
We agree and I said as much. I believe I said the Chicago Bulls fans are similar to other fan bases. They are all hypocritical. Lakers fans with Shaq while he was on the team, then attitudes about him when he was off the team were different (just as they were prior to joining when he was with the Magic). Cavs fans when Lebron was on the Cavs and then when he wasn't on the Cavs a different reaction. Bulls fans with the idea of Lebron coming to Chicago or Wade coming to Chicago, then their attitude when they both didn't. Feel free to insert any number of other examples.
Honestly, I think your whole argument is off-base because I don't know of one Bulls fan (I grew up in the Chicago area and can't even count the number of Bulls fans I know) who holds it against Wade or dislikes Wade because he met with the Bulls but didn't sign with Chicago. If anything, NBA fans root against Wade because they don't like the team he plays for.
First he was soft and a flopper, now the same people accuse him of being mean and hurting people. They all really wish he played for them deep down.
Magic said tonight that the pacers strategy of trying to take shots at the heat and get in their face and rough them up didn't work so the celtics shouldn't do the same.
This is where I don't see how people complain about them wade being a crybaby. A team was targeting them, but I didn't see wade cry after Hansbrough took him down and then exchanged 5 with the guy who'd given haslem 9 stitches the night before. I understand people complaining if they though the heat overreacted to make the pacers stop taking cheap shots, but I dont see how you can call them crybabies in that series.
Pittman was way out of line, you dont repay a choke sign with a flying elbow, but the reactions are just spin to get the next call. I didn't see wade crying, I saw haslem letting the pacers know that if they were going to try to take out wade and lebron there was going to be retaliation.
Not everybody in the NBA can be as classy as Danny Granger was during the Heat/Pacers series ::)
Being a huge Dr. J fan at the time, I am entirely certain Bird deserved to be held down by Barkley while Dr. J punched him. In fact, they let him off easy not bringing Moses in.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 26, 2012, 09:17:40 PM
Honestly, I think your whole argument is off-base because I don't know of one Bulls fan (I grew up in the Chicago area and can't even count the number of Bulls fans I know) who holds it against Wade or dislikes Wade because he met with the Bulls but didn't sign with Chicago. If anything, NBA fans root against Wade because they don't like the team he plays for.
You weren't listening to the SCORE on July 7th when he made his announcement to rebuff the Bulls. Check out the message boards.
I am no fan of the Heat, but I am a fan of Dwyane Wade. I'm perfectly capable of cheering for Wade to do well but not cheer for the Heat. I do not have any love for the Knicks, Blazers, etc, but find a way to hope Novak, Wes, Doc do well because of their Marquette connections.
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 25, 2012, 10:44:45 PM
Yes you did. It was another thread but you just said:
"Bulls fans in particular are incredible hypocrites"
Doesn't make other fans non-hypocrites which is what I argued. All fans are hypocrites, some more than others. I'd put the Bulls in that category for Rodman alone. Other teams haven't had a complete douche like Rodman on their squad and shown unlimiting love for the guy while then calling someone like D-Wade a douche. That was the example. It would be like Pistons fans (with Lambeer, etc) doing the same thing. They fit the same class. Would I put the Hawks fans at the same level of hypocrisy? Clippers? T-Wolves? Probably not. So yes, in particular (along with some other teams), the Bulls fans stand out.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 26, 2012, 10:59:14 AM
Still completely inane to compare the Bulls without Rose and Noah to the Heat without Bosh, or any of the teams that are completely healthy. If the Heat had lost James the first game of the playoffs they wouldn't be playing right now. Take the top two off any other team when the Bulls lost Rose and Noah and they'd be out too.
Noah played in 3 games. Bulls lost 2 of the 3. Do I think if Noah played in the entire series they would have won? Most likely they would have. Do I think with or without Rose they would have beaten the Heat? No, I do not. I'm not blinded by Bulls glasses.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 27, 2012, 12:41:11 PM
You weren't listening to the SCORE on July 7th when he made his announcement to rebuff the Bulls. Check out the message boards.
We aren't talking about how people got mad two years ago, we talking about how you want fans to 'get over it' today. And how you think there is something special about chicago because they cheered for a guy 13 years ago(who was on their team) and now boo their biggest rival.
All fans are hypocrites, some more than others. I'd put the Bulls in that category for Rodman alone. Why, what about rodman was special? Name one city that didn't love a player that brought national championships. Other teams haven't had a complete douche like Rodman on their squad and shown unlimiting love (bullshit) for the guy while then calling someone like D-Wade a douche. That was the example. It would be like Pistons fans (with Lambeer, etc) doing the same thing. And utah with malone/Stockton, 4 different teams with horry, Seattle with paton, indiana with miller, nyc with starks, suns with barkley, ron artest, bruce bowen... They fit the same class. Would I put the Hawks fans at the same level of hypocrisy? Clippers? T-Wolves? Probably not. So the only teams you can name are ones that haven't won anything! What a joke.
You are mad because fans of a team don't like their biggest rival. This is the most ridiculous argument i've ever seen. The WI inferiority complex people aren't even on your side. Rodman played 13 years ago, maybe you should get over it.
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 27, 2012, 01:24:05 PM
You are mad because fans of a team don't like their biggest rival. This is the most ridiculous argument i've ever seen. The WI inferiority complex people aren't even on your side. Rodman played 13 years ago, maybe you should get over it.
That is not my argument. All fans are hypocrites, Bulls more so than other fans. That is what I am saying. That, and Wade isn't a douche, isn't a dirty player and for Bulls fans here or Smith in a column to say so and ignore their past is low.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 27, 2012, 02:02:47 PM
That is not my argument. All fans are hypocrites, Bulls more so than other fans. That is what I am saying. That, and Wade isn't a douche, isn't a dirty player and for Bulls fans here or Smith in a column to say so and ignore their past is low.
So you, someone who hates the Bulls, "objectively" determines that their fans are bigger hypocrites than other fans (such as yourself). Dumbest argument ever.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 27, 2012, 02:02:47 PM
That is not my argument. All fans are hypocrites, Bulls more so than other fans. That is what I am saying. That, and Wade isn't a douche, isn't a dirty player and for Bulls fans here or Smith in a column to say so and ignore their past is low.
I understand your theory. (that bulls fans more so than others are hypocrites) You have given No evidence. Nothing you've said has backed up that statement. You just keep repeating rodman over and over again. I ask how rodman is different from a dozen other examples and you have nothing to say.
Wade has had his share of whining after calls, hard fouls and off court controversy. Add that to the fact that he's on the biggest rivalry of a team that has earned cosecutive one seeds and you have given bulls fans reason to cheer against him.
Just get over Rodman and stop taking such offence to every disagreeable thing that people say about wade. It's going to happen and it doesn't mean that bulls fans are special or different.
Yeah, funny how the Pacers accused the Heat of first being floppers then dirty players.
Also funny how the only players that ended up with stitches and open gashes were the Heat.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 27, 2012, 02:37:46 PM
So you, someone who hates the Bulls, "objectively" determines that their fans are bigger hypocrites than other fans (such as yourself). Dumbest argument ever.
Only one problem with your statement. I do not hate the Bulls. Some of their fans are hypocrites, but I do not hate the Bulls.
Are you channeling the wrong Jay Bilas again?
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 27, 2012, 06:43:05 PM
I understand your theory. (that bulls fans more so than others are hypocrites) You have given No evidence. Nothing you've said has backed up that statement. You just keep repeating rodman over and over again. I ask how rodman is different from a dozen other examples and you have nothing to say.
Wade has had his share of whining after calls, hard fouls and off court controversy. Add that to the fact that he's on the biggest rivalry of a team that has earned cosecutive one seeds and you have given bulls fans reason to cheer against him.
Just get over Rodman and stop taking such offence to every disagreeable thing that people say about wade. It's going to happen and it doesn't mean that bulls fans are special or different.
Then you aren't paying attention. I said all fans are hypocrites, but Bulls (and other teams) more so than others. Rodman is just one example, but a fantastic one. He really
was one of the dirtiest players in NBA history. Wade is not, so when I hear Bulls fans or Chicago Tribune columnist or Chicago Sun-Times coumnist or sports talk radio baffons here in town say Wade is dirty, it rings hollow. If these opinions came from Cleveland or New Orleans or Houston, then the reaction would be different because they haven't had the history of dirty players. There are other teams fans that fit the bill of Bulls fans, Detroit, the Lakers, Celtics, etc. They love to whine about other teams but when their own are doing it, they are silent. The problem is that there are certain teams fans that go above the bar of hypocrisy and the Bulls fans fit that bill.
Start paying attention, I've given you examples including the best one out there. Dennis Rodman. Want more evidence from other fan sites, here is some (start the BLEACHER REPORT SUCKS chants now - it's an opinion, not factual on who is dirty but it appears they are locked in on it as well).
25 Dirtiest Players of all time as of May 2012http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1176326-the-25-dirtiest-players-in-league-history/page/24
Dwyane Wade = NOT ON THE LIST
#3 Dennis Rodman
#4 Ron Artest
#16 Michael Jordan
#18 Joakim Noah
#23 Scottie Pippen
A 2012 poll by SI of actual NBA PlayersAsked to rate the most dirty players in the NBA currently. Wade doesn't make top 15.
What do Bulls fans and Sam Smith know that the ACTUAL PLAYERS IN THE NBA don't know? ::)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.15.html
ESPN Page 2 Letters from fans has Rodman #4 all time NBAhttp://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/dirtiest/players.html
Complex Sports Magazine top 50 dirtiest athletes in any sport#13 Dennis Rodman (#3 all time NBA)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2010/12/the-50-dirtiest-players-in-sports-history/bruce-bowen
Youre actually taking a list from bleacher report seriously?
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 28, 2012, 11:11:13 AM
25 Dirtiest Players of all time as of May 2012
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1176326-the-25-dirtiest-players-in-league-history/page/24
Dwyane Wade = NOT ON THE LIST
#3 Dennis Rodman
#4 Ron Artest
#16 Michael Jordan
#18 Joakim Noah
#23 Scottie Pippen
That exact same website has a video titled "Dwyane Wade and the 10 Dirtiest Players Ever."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/707338-the-10-dirtiest-nba-players-ever-artest-malone-more
(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/707338-the-10-dirtiest-nba-players-ever-artest-malone-more)
I don't have that strong of an opinion on Wade one way or another, but the rest of your "research" is equally asinine.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 28, 2012, 11:11:13 AM
Only one problem with your statement. I do not hate the Bulls. Some of their fans are hypocrites, but I do not hate the Bulls.
Are you channeling the wrong Jay Bilas again?
Then you aren't paying attention. I said all fans are hypocrites, but Bulls (and other teams) more so than others. Rodman is just one example, but a fantastic one. He really was one of the dirtiest players in NBA history. Wade is not, so when I hear Bulls fans or Chicago Tribune columnist or Chicago Sun-Times coumnist or sports talk radio baffons here in town say Wade is dirty, it rings hollow. If these opinions came from Cleveland or New Orleans or Houston, then the reaction would be different because they haven't had the history of dirty players. There are other teams fans that fit the bill of Bulls fans, Detroit, the Lakers, Celtics, etc. They love to whine about other teams but when their own are doing it, they are silent. The problem is that there are certain teams fans that go above the bar of hypocrisy and the Bulls fans fit that bill.
Start paying attention, I've given you examples including the best one out there. Dennis Rodman. Want more evidence from other fan sites, here is some (start the BLEACHER REPORT SUCKS chants now - it's an opinion, not factual on who is dirty but it appears they are locked in on it as well).
25 Dirtiest Players of all time as of May 2012
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1176326-the-25-dirtiest-players-in-league-history/page/24
Dwyane Wade = NOT ON THE LIST
#3 Dennis Rodman
#4 Ron Artest
#16 Michael Jordan
#18 Joakim Noah
#23 Scottie Pippen
A 2012 poll by SI of actual NBA Players
Asked to rate the most dirty players in the NBA currently. Wade doesn't make top 15. What do Bulls fans and Sam Smith know that the ACTUAL PLAYERS IN THE NBA don't know? ::)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.15.html
ESPN Page 2 Letters from fans has Rodman #4 all time NBA
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/dirtiest/players.html
Complex Sports Magazine top 50 dirtiest athletes in any sport
#13 Dennis Rodman (#3 all time NBA)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2010/12/the-50-dirtiest-players-in-sports-history/bruce-bowen
You've spent way too much time on this to argue over one's opinion.
But hey, that's the Chicos way.
Ignore the Bleacher Report then. Use the one that is most important, the survey of actual NBA players. Wade doesn't register anywhere. Somehow Bulls fans and Sam Smith see something that the very guys that play against Wade night in and night out do not. Why? Because Wade plays for the Heat and if Wade played for the Bulls there would be no such commentary from Bulls fans or Sam Smith.
A 2012 poll by SI of actual NBA Players
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.15.html
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 28, 2012, 06:25:38 PM
Ignore the Bleacher Report then. Use the one that is most important, the survey of actual NBA players. Wade doesn't register anywhere. Somehow Bulls fans and Sam Smith see something that the very guys that play against Wade night in and night out do not. Why? Because Wade plays for the Heat and if Wade played for the Bulls there would be no such commentary from Bulls fans or Sam Smith.
A 2012 poll by SI of actual NBA Players
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.15.html
You keep throwing "Bulls fans" into your argument but it makes no sense. Sam Smith stated him opinion. Do I agree with him? No, but that's fine. He can have an opinion but it doesn't reflect the opinions of all Bulls fans nor does it have anything to do with Wade not signing with the Bulls or with Dennis Rodman.
Let's break this down simply. Fans cheer for the players on their team and tend to cheer against players on rival teams. If a player from Rival A signs with Rival B, then the fans of Rival B will cheer for him. That's how it works.
Yankees fans cheered for Roger Clemens.
Packers fans cheered for Jim McMahon.
Louisville fans cheer for Rick Pitino.
Vikings fans cheered for Brett Favre.
Alabama fans cheer for Nick Saban.
Cowboys fans cheered for Deion Sanders.
Cheering for a once-hated rival is not exclusive to the Bulls and Rodman.
If Urlacher signed with the Packers and helped them win 3 Super Bowls, do you think Packers fans would cheer for him?
If Jim Tressel became the Head Coach at Michigan and won 3 National Championships, do you think Michigan fans would cheer for him?
If Joakim Noah signed with the Bucks and helped them win 3 Championships, do you think Bucks fans would cheer for him?
If Derek Jeter signed with the Red Sox and helped them win 3 World Series, do you think Sox fans would cheer for him?
If Tom Crean came back to Marquette and won 3 National Championships, do you think MU fans would cheer for him?
If you said "No" to any of those hypotheticals then you simply don't understand fandom.
If Tom Crean came back to Marquette and won 3 National Championships, do you think MU fans would cheer for him?
Count me out.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2012, 09:05:31 AM
If Tom Crean came back to Marquette and won 3 National Championships, do you think MU fans would cheer for him?
Count me out.
Talk about a nightmare scenario. Count me out as well. I have principles.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 29, 2012, 09:05:31 AM
If Tom Crean came back to Marquette and won 3 National Championships, do you think MU fans would cheer for him?
Count me out.
I didn't cheer for him when he was here before. If he came back....good Lord...talk about Hiroshima!
Sam Smith is not a Bulls fan. He is a reporter/columnist who writes about the Bulls a lot.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 28, 2012, 11:11:13 AM
Then you aren't paying attention. I said all fans are hypocrites, but Bulls (and other teams) more so than others. Yes, i have, i have responded to that several times. You haven't been paying attention to me. Rodman is just one example, but a fantastic one. He really was one of the dirtiest players in NBA history. Agreed Wade is not, agreedso when I hear Bulls fans or Chicago Tribune columnist or Chicago Sun-Times coumnist or sports talk radio baffons here in town say Wade is dirty, it rings hollow.So for the rest of time no bulls fan can call someone dirty? If these opinions came from Clevelandnever won anything. or New Orleans never one anythingor Houston, just signed Reggie Evansthen the reaction would be different because they haven't had the history of dirty players. Yes, i'm sure they wouldn't have jumped at a chance to pair rodman with the DreamThere are other teams fans that fit the bill of Bulls fans, Detroit, the Lakers, Celtics, etc.AKA; teams that have won. They love to whine about other teams but when their own are doing it, they are silent. The problem is that there are certain teams fans that go above the bar of hypocrisy and the Bulls fans fit that bill. Because they didn't hate one player that brought three championships...
Start paying attention, I've given you examples including the best one out there. Dennis Rodman. Want more evidence from other fan sites, here is some (start the BLEACHER REPORT SUCKS chants now - it's an opinion, not factual on who is dirty but it appears they are locked in on it as well).
25 Dirtiest Players of all time as of May 2012
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1176326-the-25-dirtiest-players-in-league-history/page/24
Dwyane Wade = NOT ON THE LIST
#3 Dennis Rodman
#4 Ron Artest
#16 Michael Jordan
#18 Joakim Noah
#23 Scottie Pippen The same pippen who played for the rockets?
No one is saying rodman isn't dirty. THe evidence you haven't provided is an example of a city that hated a key member of their own championship team because he was dirty. This has never happened. You seem to want fans to dislike rodman. If he was on the rockets and would have won a few titles with them, then the people of Houston would magically have been bigger hypocrites in your book. THe only fans not on your 'particularly bad hypocrites' list are fans that haven't has a chance to root for a dirty player. Trust me, given the opportunity, they would.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 29, 2012, 08:39:27 AM
Yankees fans cheered for Roger Clemens.
Yankee fans held their collective noses while cheering for Clemens. They never accepted or liked that guy. It wasn't the complete disdain/hatred that they had for guys that pitched poorly for them like Ed Whitson, Carl Pavano and AJ Burnett, but all the Yankee fans I know would much rather the Yankees never signed Clemens.
Quote from: CTWarrior on May 29, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
Yankee fans held their collective noses while cheering for Clemens. They never accepted or liked that guy. It wasn't the complete disdain/hatred that they had for guys that pitched poorly for them like Ed Whitson, Carl Pavano and AJ Burnett, but all the Yankee fans I know would much rather the Yankees never signed Clemens.
I agree. I only accepted the Red Sox Clemens as a Yankee because he won. Wade Boggs was different story for some reason?
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 29, 2012, 10:47:53 AM
No one is saying rodman isn't dirty. THe evidence you haven't provided is an example of a city that hated a key member of their own championship team because he was dirty. This has never happened. You seem to want fans to dislike rodman. If he was on the rockets and would have won a few titles with them, then the people of Houston would magically have been bigger hypocrites in your book. THe only fans not on your 'particularly bad hypocrites' list are fans that haven't has a chance to root for a dirty player. Trust me, given the opportunity, they would.
That post, particularly the added bits in the quoted post, is simply massive pwnage. Nicely done, sir.
Quote from: Bocephys on May 29, 2012, 09:18:50 AM
Talk about a nightmare scenario. Count me out as well. I have principles.
If Crean came back and we won 3 titles but you had your head so far up your rear end not to be happy for your school. Tells me all I need to know. You, PRN and others have principles that you selectively choose to apply.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 30, 2012, 10:17:35 AM
If Crean came back and we won 3 titles but you had your head so far up your rear end not to be happy for your school. Tells me all I need to know. You, PRN and others have principles that you selectively choose to apply.
So if your friend sleeps with your wife and they run away together, but he comes back and buys you a new car everything would be good between you guys?
Quote from: Bocephys on May 30, 2012, 12:47:06 PM
So if your friend sleeps with your wife and they run away together, but he comes back and buys you a new car everything would be good between you guys?
What kind of car?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 29, 2012, 08:39:27 AM
If Tom Crean came back to Marquette and won 3 National Championships, do you think MU fans would cheer for him?
Let's be realistic here... we all know he would leave for a big name school after NC #1.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 30, 2012, 12:49:01 PM
What kind of car?
Lexus? Hoop seems like a Lexus kind of guy.
Quote from: Bocephys on May 30, 2012, 12:47:06 PM
So if your friend sleeps with your wife and they run away together, but he comes back and buys you a new car brings you a younger, hotter, richer, and funnier wife, everything would be good between you guys?
Three National Championship'd
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 30, 2012, 10:17:35 AM
If Crean came back and we won 3 titles but you had your head so far up your rear end not to be happy for your school. Tells me all I need to know. You, PRN and others have principles that you selectively choose to apply.
4ever says count me out first. Bo and PRN agree. Yet instead of responding to/ripping the original poster, you quote Bo and tell him he has his head up his ass. And then you direct selective faux outrage at him and PRN over something you've imagined. You are some piece of work.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on May 28, 2012, 06:25:38 PM
Ignore the Bleacher Report then. Use the one that is most important, the survey of actual NBA players. Wade doesn't register anywhere. Somehow Bulls fans and Sam Smith see something that the very guys that play against Wade night in and night out do not. Why? Because Wade plays for the Heat and if Wade played for the Bulls there would be no such commentary from Bulls fans or Sam Smith.
A 2012 poll by SI of actual NBA Players
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.dirtiest.player/content.15.html
Part A:
There are two things you have to do to convince me that anyone is a 'particular kind of hypocrite'.
1) Convince me that they are a hypocrites
2) Convince me that others wouldn't be in the same circumstance.
Your arguments are all about #1 and never touch on #2. Can you point to one instance, in all of sports history, where a player or coach was integral in winning three championships was disliked. Just one, any team sport.
Part B:
I hope you aren't including sam smith as someone who showed 'unlimited love' towards rodman:
Get rid of him in 96: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19960723&id=Y2RPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-QMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3541,6484917 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19960723&id=Y2RPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-QMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3541,6484917)
He's a fraud: http://www.blogabull.com/2010/12/17/1882446/sam-smith-calls-rodman-a-fraud (http://www.blogabull.com/2010/12/17/1882446/sam-smith-calls-rodman-a-fraud)
He's what one email to the trib said about him in 98:
QuoteI found Sam Smith's column on Dennis Rodman's conduct (Tribune, Jan. 29) insulting to read. For the last year, Smith has belittled Rodman at every opportunity, even claiming in one column that Rodman was washed up as an NBA player. While other Rodman critics have at least noted his ability and dedicated play in the absence of Scottie Pippen, Smith continues with his insulting columns.
If anyone's conduct has been unbecoming, it's Smith's.
There were plenty of complaints about his behavior. Perhaps not in whatever suburb you grew up in but I think your overall memory of the situation is tainted.
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 31, 2012, 12:10:02 AMI hope you aren't including sam smith as someone who showed 'unlimited love' towards rodman:
Get rid of him in 96: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19960723&id=Y2RPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-QMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3541,6484917 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19960723&id=Y2RPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-QMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3541,6484917)
Not at all on topic, but I found it hilarious that in that article, Smith endorsed signing Jayson Williams instead of Rodman because of character. At the time, Williams had already been accused of breaking a mug over a guy's head in a Chicago barfight and shooting off a gun in the parking lot of the New Jersey Nets arena. Unbeknownst to Smith at the time, Williams would go on to plead guilty to assault in the 2002 death of his limo driver, not to mention other bar fights and a DWI.
Not at all trying to say Rodman hasn't had plenty of legal issues of his own, but holding Jayson Williams up as the paramount of good behavior is pretty funny.
Quote from: Bocephys on May 30, 2012, 12:47:06 PM
So if your friend sleeps with your wife and they run away together, but he comes back and buys you a new car everything would be good between you guys?
Didn't this actually happen at the California Beer Summit?
Chicos and Hoop are still buds, right?
Quote from: leever on May 31, 2012, 09:11:18 AM
Didn't this actually happen at the California Beer Summit?
Chicos and Hoop are still buds, right?
That's how hoop got the Lexus. Chicos is pulling ot at direct tv to pay for it. He's too busy to post now.
Quote from: Bocephys on May 30, 2012, 12:47:06 PM
So if your friend sleeps with your wife and they run away together, but he comes back and buys you a new car everything would be good between you guys?
Rock solid analogy. ::)
When a husband and wife are married they take a vow in front of family, the state, sometimes God. When you take a job, no such commitment is made. Most employees are not under contract and can leave whenever they want. Some are under contracts, like coaches. Those contracts allow for them to change jobs with buyouts and other out clauses. Your analogy is flawed at every level.
While we are at it, do you hate Al McGuire for leaving MU to be a VP at a private company or for trying to leave us (using your wife example) to coach the Bucks? You hate Rick Majerus. You hate Kevin O'Neill?
nvm