MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mu_hilltopper on March 29, 2012, 10:21:49 AM
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Watching Inside Marquette Bball .. Homer asks about the "Job openings" situation.
Buzz:
* I think this is a good thing .. if we win 7 games instead of 27, no one talks to me.
* Not having success, people talk about me getting fired. Bruce Weber wins 73% of his games, he's fired.
* "Need to handle it the right way. Search firms have taken over college athletics" ..
* I just tell the truth. I do not have an agent. Never been hired by a search firm. But I know all of them, have relationships. Am transparent.
* (That I'm a commodity means) Doing the right things, doesn't mean we're doing all the right things.
* Our success speaks for itself.
Homer asks "So, you're at Marquette, you're happy, you'll get up the next morning..?"
Buzz: "I'm gonna do the same thing that I've always done. If at some point in time, that's not the right thing to do, then I think I'll have peace one way or the other about the right thing to do. That's not the answer, I apologize, it's just the truth. What I have said throughout my tenure here is the right thing, but to have this same conversation year in and year out, is that really fair to MU and the people who care? I've went to work every day that I've been here, except 4 days in August when I leave town. I think that speaks for itself."
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The text is about as aloof as he was delivering it. I know I'll get bashed for saying this, but I was hoping for a glimmer of joy there, that he's enjoying the job, looking forward.
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My read of that is that Buzz feels like 'already asked and answered'. I would guess he grows tired of folks not believing him. I really believe he'll spend his career at MU but that his time horizon for big time D1 coaching is 10 more years max. Coach Al reborn.
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Watching Inside Marquette Bball .. Homer asks about the "Job openings" situation.
Buzz:
* I think this is a good thing .. if we win 7 games instead of 27, no one talks to me.
* Not having success, people talk about me getting fired. Bruce Weber wins 73% of his games, he's fired.
* "Need to handle it the right way. Search firms have taken over college athletics" ..
* I just tell the truth. I do not have an agent. Never been hired by a search firm. But I know all of them, have relationships. Am transparent.
* (That I'm a commodity means) Doing the right things, doesn't mean we're doing all the right things.
* Our success speaks for itself.
Homer asks "So, you're at Marquette, you're happy, you'll get up the next morning..?"
Buzz: "I'm gonna do the same thing that I've always done. If at some point in time, that's not the right thing to do, then I think I'll have peace one way or the other about the right thing to do. That's not the answer, I apologize, it's just the truth. What I have said throughout my tenure here is the right thing, but to have this same conversation year in and year out, is that really fair to MU and the people who care? I've went to work every day that I've been here, except 4 days in August when I leave town. I think that speaks for itself."
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The text is about as aloof as he was delivering it. I know I'll get bashed for saying this, but I was hoping for a glimmer of joy there, that he's enjoying the job, looking forward.
No bashing from me Topper. I think your read is, unfortunately, dead on. For Buzz, the joy has been sucked out of his job, the loyalty and trust violated. Unless the powers that be can "bring back that lovin' feeling" it's a matter of when, not if.
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I felt the same way as you two when I heard Buzz deliver it. He seemed kinda sad, really.
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No bashing from me Topper. I think your read is, unfortunately, dead on. For Buzz, the joy has been sucked out of his job, the loyalty and trust violated. Unless the powers that be can "bring back that lovin' feeling" it's a matter of when, not if.
Hopefully a deep run in next your's tournament will be the cure for what ails him!
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maybe the cat needs to take off more than 4 days a year.
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Watching Inside Marquette Bball .. Homer asks about the "Job openings" situation.
Buzz:
* I think this is a good thing .. if we win 7 games instead of 27, no one talks to me.
* Not having success, people talk about me getting fired. Bruce Weber wins 73% of his games, he's fired.
* "Need to handle it the right way. Search firms have taken over college athletics" ..
* I just tell the truth. I do not have an agent. Never been hired by a search firm. But I know all of them, have relationships. Am transparent.
* (That I'm a commodity means) Doing the right things, doesn't mean we're doing all the right things.
* Our success speaks for itself.
Homer asks "So, you're at Marquette, you're happy, you'll get up the next morning..?"
Buzz: "I'm gonna do the same thing that I've always done. If at some point in time, that's not the right thing to do, then I think I'll have peace one way or the other about the right thing to do. That's not the answer, I apologize, it's just the truth. What I have said throughout my tenure here is the right thing, but to have this same conversation year in and year out, is that really fair to MU and the people who care? I've went to work every day that I've been here, except 4 days in August when I leave town. I think that speaks for itself."
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The text is about as aloof as he was delivering it. I know I'll get bashed for saying this, but I was hoping for a glimmer of joy there, that he's enjoying the job, looking forward.
When was this show recorded? Tuesday morning/afternoon, before the joint statement was released, right?
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Homer asks "So, you're at Marquette, you're happy, you'll get up the next morning..?"
Buzz: "I'm gonna do the same thing that I've always done. If at some point in time, that's not the right thing to do, then I think I'll have peace one way or the other about the right thing to do. That's not the answer, I apologize, it's just the truth. What I have said throughout my tenure here is the right thing, but to have this same conversation year in and year out, is that really fair to MU and the people who care? I've went to work every day that I've been here, except 4 days in August when I leave town. I think that speaks for itself."
The truth is that we will have this conversation every year, year-in and year-out IF the team and Buzz remain successful. YES, Buzz it is fair to MU and all of us who care. I am not sure how we can prevent his name from being mentioned for job openings except when the team loses. It is just something I have to deal with and hope the powers that be at MU reach the right judgement.
I know the vast majority of MU's fan base is happy with the coach and the team he has put together. I would've liked him to say what he said last year, "don't mess with happy" but we didn't get that. I hope he is able to continue to have the same drive and energy going forward and push the program on to bigger and better things. Over time I hope he and the Domer get to like each other.
Lenny can you explain to me how Buzz's loyalty and trust were violated?
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When was this show recorded? Tuesday morning/afternoon, before the joint statement was released, right?
True, maybe he and Larry made some good progress and kissed and made up after the show was taped.
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I hope he takes a week this Spring to relax and take in the success he has had. Four days off is not enough for what he does.
There is an easy cure to keep him here, keep getting the solid recruits and land a blue chipper and he is looking at the potential for some major runs in 2013/2014.
However, I do think 2012-2013 will be a down year, middle of the pack, trying to get into the NCAA's type of year. I'd love for a great season, but I think it will be more like Hayward's final year. We will need some late wins to get into the NCAA's.
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Saw that when it aired, and thought that was a really uncomfortable moment, especially given the timing.
Almost makes me think the "He's staying/leaving" back and forth from Sunday afternoon on was legit.
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Saw that when it aired, and thought that was a really uncomfortable moment, especially given the timing.
Almost makes me think the "He's staying/leaving" back and forth from Sunday afternoon on was legit.
Emphasis on the "almost," yes?
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I really wonder about the LW hire. He is a football guy and obviously we are not a football coach. Really hope that either LW learns the importance of ball or we move a different direction at AD. Buzz was put in tough situation with the new hires and that takes time to adjust. Good news is that we have a year to see if they can figure it out.
If Buzz did not want to be here he had every opportunity to leave in the past week. He is here because he wants to be. This is not a guy that couldn't find a job if he wanted to leave. Keep the faith guys...situation will continue to evolve and hopefully in the right direction.
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So, he didn't wax on about how his feelings were hurt by the AD having the audacity to be quoted in an article, and how distraught he was that Larry Williams and Father Pilarz are really double secret agents, bent on destroying MU basketball, and turning us
into--GASP!-- SLU??
Again, I am simply STUNNED, SHOCKED, BLOWN AWAY, that literally nothing happened. Nothing.
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maybe the cat needs to take off more than 4 days a year.
I know it's not in Buzz's nature... but this would help.
Larry Williams might be an idiot, but his remarks about Buzz being high strung were accurate.
I love the guy, but for longevity's sake, he might need to pump the breaks a little once in a while.
He's of no value to MU (or any other school) if he is burned out and hates what he is doing everyday.
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So, he didn't wax on about how his feelings were hurt by the AD having the audacity to be quoted in an article, and how distraught he was that Larry Williams and Father Pilarz are really double secret agents, bent on destroying MU basketball, and turning us
into--GASP!-- SLU??
Again, I am simply STUNNED, SHOCKED, BLOWN AWAY, that literally nothing happened. Nothing.
I guess I don't understand where this sentiment is coming from. That can't be the end-game for Fr. Pilarz and Larry Williams. SLU is much too good at basketball. We'd be Holy Cross, at best.
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I really wonder about the LW hire. He is a football guy and obviously we are not a football coach. Really hope that either LW learns the importance of ball or we move a different direction at AD.
Exactly! Just like how Larry screwed University of Portland up (for the past 7 years) because he was too focused on their football team.
/googles University of Portland
// realizes they don't have football
///Thanks Ammo
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Yup, let's double down on the stupid, shall we?
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I smell another 100 page thread coming....in 3-2-1...
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link to watch?
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So, he didn't wax on about how his feelings were hurt by the AD having the audacity to be quoted in an article, and how distraught he was that Larry Williams and Father Pilarz are really double secret agents, bent on destroying MU basketball, and turning us
into--GASP!-- SLU??
Again, I am simply STUNNED, SHOCKED, BLOWN AWAY, that literally nothing happened. Nothing.
This, totally. Buzz has never been a guy to wax on poetically about anything. He's face value, and I'd attribute any perceived irritation to being annoyed at being asked the same question every dang year when he's done nothing to indicate he might be bailing. Said in the Thread That Was Epic that Buzz probably did have a conversation with SMU, because he does not have an agent and seems the kind of guy who would take any conversation just to be polite. Similarly, he answers every email he gets just to be polite.
If he really had no intention at all of leaving MU, he must be sick to death of being asked constantly if he's going and then get bombarded by emails about it as well. He probably just wants this to die down so he can get back to work.
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Guys, just a note, let's keep this thread to rational discussion, ok?
If you need to be crazed, there's a thread for that.
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Again, I am not going to read anything into the Homer show. If Buzz wanted to leave he had every opportunity to bolt the past 72 hours. The man is highly regarded and does not need to be here if was unhappy. Either things get mended over next year or he is gone. I am betting things get fixed.
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maybe the cat needs to take off more than 4 days a year.
This was my thought after the Butcher, Baker, Candlestick maker comments. The guy appears to be exhausted. I don't care if you take days off, but shooting for a solid 8 hours of sleep one night now that the seasons over sounds like a good idea.
I realize being a certifiable nut is a prerequisite for the job of college head coach, but I honestly don't know how the guy stays upright.
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It is as simple as this.
There are 2 new sheriffs in town. They don't like what happened last year (2011). They told Buzz so.
He is learning the new rules. Hope they all learn to get along.
If they don't learn to get along, BOT has the new sheriff's backs, and so do many well heeled alums. If you don't believe that, look at who is on the BOT.
I love Buzz. I think many of the issues from this year were blown way out of proportion, but in the light of what happened last year, BOT wants this stuff to stop.
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It is as simple as this.
There are 2 new sheriffs in town. They don't like what happened last year (2011). They told Buzz so.
He is learning the new rules. Hope they all learn to get along.
If they don't learn to get along, BOT has the new sheriff's backs, and so do many well heeled alums. If you don't believe that, look at who is on the BOT.
I love Buzz. I think many of the issues from this year were blown way out of proportion, but in the light of what happened last year, BOT wants this stuff to stop.
What he said.
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No bashing from me Topper. I think your read is, unfortunately, dead on. For Buzz, the joy has been sucked out of his job, the loyalty and trust violated. Unless the powers that be can "bring back that lovin' feeling" it's a matter of when, not if.
Is it the administration or the powers that be or is it part of the normal process of being a human being.
They call it the honeymoon period for a reason. Most people have a certain spark with their spouse when dating or the first few years. Later, it changes. You still may love your spouse but goosebumps aren't the same. People are like this with jobs also. The longer you are at a job, the expectations change, the responsibilities change, people begin to grate on one another sometimes.
I found his comments to be normal. I'm tired of hearing all the ball squeezing comments. If he is not feeling loved by what MU has done for him (giving him a job in the Big East), paying him in the top 15 in the nation, letting him admit kids that historically MU has not allowed, giving him huge budgets, then I would like to know exactly how much more love Buzz needs.
Chalk this up to the rigors of the business of college basketball and the expectations that go with it. He's happy but you're never totally happy and most jobs that come with those types of salaries bring plenty of misery. People want things in return for $1million plus. That's life. Fans, administration, media, alumni, players. That's life.
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Yup, let's double down on the stupid, shall we?
+1
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It is as simple as this.
There are 2 new sheriffs in town. They don't like what happened last year (2011). They told Buzz so.
He is learning the new rules. Hope they all learn to get along.
If they don't learn to get along, BOT has the new sheriff's backs, and so do many well heeled alums. If you don't believe that, look at who is on the BOT.
I love Buzz. I think many of the issues from this year were blown way out of proportion, but in the light of what happened last year, BOT wants this stuff to stop.
This is what I do not understand. Every public comment from Buzz indicates that the fiber of his being is about character and respect. I have zero doubt that he has, at no time, said "well, boys will be boys." I have zero doubt that every time there's been an incident, major or minor, he (or admittedly, his staff) has invoked either on or off-court discipline. I have zero doubt that for every skipped class, every "C" test, players have been jumped on, as their life is tightly controlled by their famous minute-by-minute schedule.
That there's 2 "new sheriffs" in town would not matter under these circumstances. From what we know about Buzz, if the upper-admin said "stop these shenanigans" .. Buzz's response would be "Damn right. Here are the 26 things I tried on color coded paper. Got any other ideas?"
Yes, there've been incidents, yes there may be some poor academic results .. that the BOT "wants this to stop" is obvious, but suggests that Buzz is somehow OK with how things are. Everything we know about him suggests otherwise and is on the same page.
This theory makes no sense to me.
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This is what I do not understand. Every public comment from Buzz indicates that the fiber of his being is about character and respect. I have zero doubt that he has, at no time, said "well, boys will be boys." I have zero doubt that every time there's been an incident, major or minor, he (or admittedly, his staff) has invoked either on or off-court discipline. I have zero doubt that for every skipped class, every "C" test, players have been jumped on, as their life is tightly controlled by their famous minute-by-minute schedule.
That there's 2 "new sheriffs" in town would not matter under these circumstances. From what we know about Buzz, if the upper-admin said "stop these shenanigans" .. Buzz's response would be "Damn right. Here are the 26 things I tried on color coded paper. Got any other ideas?"
Yes, there've been incidents, yes there may be some poor academic results .. that the BOT "wants this to stop" is obvious, but suggests that Buzz is somehow OK with how things are. Everything we know about him suggests otherwise and is on the same page.
This theory makes no sense to me.
Well articulated
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I also have zero doubt that if Buzz were unhappy, he would say it.
And if Buzz was seriously considering that SMU offer, that he would say it.
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Lab
Finally agree with one your posts. Well stated.
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No bashing from me Topper. I think your read is, unfortunately, dead on. For Buzz, the joy has been sucked out of his job, the loyalty and trust violated. Unless the powers that be can "bring back that lovin' feeling" it's a matter of when, not if.
There might be no joy right this second, with the team having just lost and with all of these off-the-court situations to deal with ad nauseum, but Buzz Williams probably lets himself experience joyousness more often than any other coach in America.
Was there joy the night he danced in West Virginia? Was there joy the night he played a quick bongo number on Jae's head? Was there joy when he and Jae embraced and said they loved each other? Is there joy every time he high-fives a player coming off the court after a job well done? Is there joy every time he talks with pride about how hard his players work?
Yes, there are difficult situations that are less than joyful for any coach -- and for any person, for that matter. But come on. Name another coach who seems to get more day-to-day joy out of his job than Buzz does.
While many coaches admit that the sadness of defeat outweighs brief feelings of euphoria from victory, Buzz sure seems to be that rare guy who enjoys the journey as much as -- if not more than -- the destination. That's one of the main reasons I hope he has a very, very long stay in Golden Warrior Land.
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Oh, and Buzz was absolutely right about the interest in him being a good sign for the program, because nobody comes a-callin' if the coach is losing. And he was absolutely right about Weber getting canned despite taking the team to the championship game and winning 3 out of 4 games.
A person has to be loyal to himself and his family, first and foremost. Because in sports, loyalty only flows one way. We want the winning coach to be loyal to us, but we'll run the losing (defined as winning only 3 out of 4 games at Illinois and many other places) coach out of town at the first opportunity.
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I also have zero doubt that if Buzz were unhappy, he would say it.
And if Buzz was seriously considering that SMU offer, that he would say it.
I don't agree necessarily with this. His flirtation with SMU was real. IWB had his tweet out there for a reason. I know that he players didn't know if he were staying or going. This wasn't simply about him being successful and programs come after successful coaches. The entire thing could have been nipped in the bud very early and it wasn't.
I am not saying his is necessarily unhappy, and I think it is highly presumptuous for us to say "the joy has been sucked out of his job," but I am not sure he is as happy now as he was a year ago.
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Yes, there've been incidents, yes there may be some poor academic results .. that the BOT "wants this to stop" is obvious, but suggests that Buzz is somehow OK with how things are. Everything we know about him suggests otherwise and is on the same page.
This theory makes no sense to me.
Not necessarily.
It could be a matter of Buzz not being especially happy about two new guys coming in and telling him how to handle issues within the program. It may not be a matter of the two sides having different goals, but rather differences of opinion over how to achieve those goals, and how to most appropriately address situations that might interfere with achieving those goals.
I love my kids and think (hope) I'm raising them to eventually be disciplined, mature and productive adults. Their grandparents, no doubt, share these goals. But it still pisses me off to no end when the grandparents tell me how to raise my kids. We all want to same things, but it doesn't mean I'm happy when they nudge their way into what I see as my (and my wife's) realm.
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Pakuni
Agreed completely with you analogy. I think the problem is Buzz s being told how to do things and not being allowed the freedom to coach/parent in his style. I have said several times that I think Buzz does have some Al in him and that is not for everyone. Al knew the rules and the guys followed for the most part but Al did not rule in orthodox manner. Buzz needs to be himself and not reigned in.
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I don't agree necessarily with this. His flirtation with SMU was real. IWB had his tweet out there for a reason. I know that he players didn't know if he were staying or going. This wasn't simply about him being successful and programs come after successful coaches. The entire thing could have been nipped in the bud very early and it wasn't.
I am not saying his is necessarily unhappy, and I think it is highly presumptuous for us to say "the joy has been sucked out of his job," but I am not sure he is as happy now as he was a year ago.
As was alluded to in other posts in other threads, Larry Williams has only been on the job for 90 days. Right in the middle of Buzz's busiest season. There was probably not much time for them to sit down and get acquainted. This can obviously cause discomfort between supervisor and subordinate. Maybe now that the season is over, there will be more time for them to become comfortable with each other. Maybe Buzz can get back to being as happy as he was last year.
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.. But it still pisses me off to no end when the grandparents tell me how to raise my kids. We all want to same things, but it doesn't mean I'm happy when they nudge their way into what I see as my (and my wife's) realm.
I think that's a good analogy. Although ... it may piss you off, I'm not sure you'd disown those grandparents and move 900 miles away to find a new set of grandparents.
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Actually I think it is a poor analogy. The days of letting the coaches do the discipline and taking care of the troubles their players create is long gone. Having standardized athletic codes of conduct, academic progress, etc. are the norm across athletics these days. The fact is that you are told how you discipline your kids these days, and frankly the fact that you had a couple players who have been in trouble quite a bit over the last two years should tell you something.
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I think that's a good analogy. Although ... it may piss you off, I'm not sure you'd disown those grandparents and move 900 miles away to find a new set of grandparents.
Depends what the new set was paying
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I think that's a good analogy. Although ... it may piss you off, I'm not sure you'd disown those grandparents and move 900 miles away to find a new set of grandparents.
But you might threaten to do it, just to see if that backs them off your case at all. And then they say: "Really? You're going to put the kids in a new school, and sell your house, and find new jobs, just because you think we're meddling too much?" And then you're back to having Sunday dinner with them in a week.
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I think that's a good analogy. Although ... it may piss you off, I'm not sure you'd disown those grandparents and move 900 miles away to find a new set of grandparents.
The solution is as old as parenting itself. More beatings for the children!
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Depends what the new set was paying
Beat me to it.
Who knows, maybe those new grandparents have oil money.
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Sultan
My point was the coach and his bosses are on the same page for the rules and understand each other. The rules are set by the bosses but coach has leeway in how they are followed. My way of parenting is a ton different than my parents but the morals/ethics I am teaching my kids were set by what I learned from my folks.
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Actually I think it is a poor analogy. The days of letting the coaches do the discipline and taking care of the troubles their players create is long gone. Having standardized athletic codes of conduct, academic progress, etc. are the norm across athletics these days.
Apparently Jim Tressel and Jim Boeheim never got that memo.
I'm sure I could come up with a few (dozen?) other coaches who haven't deferred to the rules and/or athletic departments when it's come to player discipline.
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Depends what the new set was paying
Two can play at that game. It also depends on the fact that in your current situation, you have a few tens of thousands of dedicated, loving neighbors who rave about you, you are the BMOC, and your current job performance is excellent, so much so, you might just win the holy grail in 3-4-5 years. But you don't like your grandparents kibbitzing on your kids.
900 miles away does pay better, although you're a rich man and 10 years ago a weekend at the Ramada was a big deal. The new place gives you 1/4th the fan base, your new job will be to rebuild, and you play 2nd fiddle to another division in the company.
Oh, and those new grandparents are probably pretty keen on discipline just like your last ones.
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But you might threaten to do it, just to see if that backs them off your case at all. And then they say: "Really? You're going to put the kids in a new school, and sell your house, and find new jobs, just because you think we're meddling too much?" And then you're back to having Sunday dinner with them in a week.
If you already have a new job and a new house and less meddling grandparents/employers waiting for you, the meddlers might find themselves awfully lonesome on Sundays.
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Two can play at that game. It also depends on the fact that in your current situation, you have a few tens of thousands of dedicated, loving neighbors who rave about you, you are the BMOC, and your current job performance is excellent, so much so, you might just win the holy grail in 3-4-5 years. But you don't like your grandparents kibbitzing on your kids.
900 miles away does pay better, although you're a rich man and 10 years ago a weekend at the Ramada was a big deal. The new place gives you 1/4th the fan base, your new job will be to rebuild, and you play 2nd fiddle to another division in the company.
Oh, and those new grandparents are probably pretty keen on discipline just like your last ones.
Haha, well played Hillltopper.
The whole SMU thing never made sense to me for exactly the reasons you stated above, but clearly it did to Buzz. I think Texans that no longer live in Texas have this unfathomable fondness for their home state that they think can only be satiated by moving back there. I'd imagine disappointment quickly follows, but I'm not from there, so what do I know.
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SMU gig was just a dance with another girl to let your lady know you still got it. Problem is with a move like that you might end up sleeping on the couch. Buzz knows what he is doing and will ultimately do what is best for him. If I had to place a sizable bet today I would say one and done for Buzz.
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I'm tired of hearing all the ball squeezing comments. If he is not feeling loved by what MU has done for him (giving him a job in the Big East), paying him in the top 15 in the nation, letting him admit kids that historically MU has not allowed, giving him huge budgets, then I would like to know exactly how much more love Buzz needs.
Saying that Marquette has allowed Buzz to take "kids that historically MU has not allowed" is inaccurate, and if it refers to Jucos smacks of bigotry. Al took Jucos, Crean took Jucos and furthermore road the coattails of a kid MU most certainly historically didn't allow (prop 48) all the way to Bloomington.
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If you already have a new job and a new house and less meddling grandparents/employers waiting for you, the meddlers might find themselves awfully lonesome on Sundays.
Yep, they might. All depends on how comfortable they are calling your bluff, I suppose.
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Actually I think it is a poor analogy. The days of letting the coaches do the discipline and taking care of the troubles their players create is long gone. Having standardized athletic codes of conduct, academic progress, etc. are the norm across athletics these days. The fact is that you are told how you discipline your kids these days, and frankly the fact that you had a couple players who have been in trouble quite a bit over the last two years should tell you something.
+1. The issue in all of this is the the BOT and Administration have tried to push blame on the Athletics Department for 10 years of incidents that were handled outside of federal guidelines and local law. And the BOT and Administration have continued down this path but trying to cut their losses and lay blame on the most media visible incident that was just a small fraction of the total, when in fact, they are most culpable on scores more. All students should be treated equally within the established guidelines--athletetes or not. Did the BOT learn anything from the church scandals?
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Still say this was less about Buzz wanting to leave and more about MU nudging him. Time will tell the whole story and I am very certain the "maybe we should part ways" was not started by our coach. My bet is big time backers want Buzz and that is why he is still here. Buzz might feel slighted and maybe legit on his part to feel that way.
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They call it the honeymoon period for a reason. Most people have a certain spark with their spouse when dating or the first few years. Later, it changes. You still may love your spouse but goosebumps aren't the same. People are like this with jobs also. The longer you are at a job, the expectations change, the responsibilities change, people begin to grate on one another sometimes.
If Fr Wild and Steve Cottingham were beginning to grate on Buzz (and vice versa) after 4 years you might have a point. Fact is, their were no signs of the honeymoon ending until the original spouses were jettisoned and replaced with strangers. You can't be dense enough to think that's a coincidence.
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If Fr Wild and Steve Cottingham were beginning to grate on Buzz (and vice versa) after 4 years you might have a point. Fact is, their were no signs of the honeymoon ending until the original spouses were jettisoned and replaced with strangers. You can't be dense enough to think that's a coincidence.
Wifeswap gone bad.
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Wild and Cottingham were completely behind Buzz...maybe to a fault.
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Is it the administration or the powers that be or is it part of the normal process of being a human being.
They call it the honeymoon period for a reason. Most people have a certain spark with their spouse when dating or the first few years. Later, it changes. You still may love your spouse but goosebumps aren't the same. People are like this with jobs also. The longer you are at a job, the expectations change, the responsibilities change, people begin to grate on one another sometimes.
I found his comments to be normal. I'm tired of hearing all the ball squeezing comments. If he is not feeling loved by what MU has done for him (giving him a job in the Big East), paying him in the top 15 in the nation, letting him admit kids that historically MU has not allowed, giving him huge budgets, then I would like to know exactly how much more love Buzz needs.
Chalk this up to the rigors of the business of college basketball and the expectations that go with it. He's happy but you're never totally happy and most jobs that come with those types of salaries bring plenty of misery. People want things in return for $1million plus. That's life. Fans, administration, media, alumni, players. That's life.
Chicos, this statement I highlighted above is PATENTLY false.
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+1. The issue in all of this is the the BOT and Administration have tried to push blame on the Athletics Department for 10 years of incidents that were handled outside of federal guidelines and local law. And the BOT and Administration have continued down this path but trying to cut their losses and lay blame on the most media visible incident that was just a small fraction of the total, when in fact, they are most culpable on scores more. All students should be treated equally within the established guidelines--athletetes or not. Did the BOT learn anything from the church scandals?
Very insightful as usual Doctor.
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Chicos, this statement I highlighted above is PATENTLY false.
Viking, you need to post here more often.
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Wifeswap gone bad.
Generally does, though Fritz Peterson might disagree.
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IWB had his tweet out there for a reason.
Most likely to get people to go to his website? Not necessarily because there was anything legit. Keep in mind, no other person reported on this "rumor".
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I love my kids and think (hope) I'm raising them to eventually be disciplined, mature and productive adults. Their grandparents, no doubt, share these goals. But it still pisses me off to no end when the grandparents tell me how to raise my kids. We all want to same things, but it doesn't mean I'm happy when they nudge their way into what I see as my (and my wife's) realm.
The only problem with this analogy is that as a parent, you are ultimately responsible for your children. The grandparents are not. The state, with rare exceptions, are not. The parents are ultimate the boss.
That is different for MU basketball. Buzz has a boss, he isn't the ultimate boss. He has an AD and he has a university President and he has a BOT. He also has people outside the university paying his salary. He may not like having too many chefs in the kitchen and more than likely those parties are going to let Buzz do what he needs to do. However, any CEO or president has to look out for the overall well being of the entire organization, not just the manufacturing division or the HR department. He does have bosses and bosses will get involved, whether he likes it or not, if the bosses feel the overall organization is taking a hit.
The only way around that as a basketball coach is to go to the pros, buy a team and hire yourself.
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Saying that Marquette has allowed Buzz to take "kids that historically MU has not allowed" is inaccurate, and if it refers to Jucos smacks of bigotry. Al took Jucos, Crean took Jucos and furthermore road the coattails of a kid MU most certainly historically didn't allow (prop 48) all the way to Bloomington.
Yup, blatant lie by Hoopaloop. And he wonders why he has the reputation he does.
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Most likely to get people to go to his website? Not necessarily because there was anything legit. Keep in mind, no other person reported on this "rumor".
So he made it up? Couldn't be because Buzz told him...
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Still say this was less about Buzz wanting to leave and more about MU nudging him. Time will tell the whole story and I am very certain the "maybe we should part ways" was not started by our coach. My bet is big time backers want Buzz and that is why he is still here. Buzz might feel slighted and maybe legit on his part to feel that way.
Goose,
I don't feel that the Admin wants Buzz to go. They need him to ensure that the players understand the new reality.
If that happens, and Buzz can be happy with it, then we're all good.
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So he made it up? Couldn't be because Buzz told him...
This is actually an interesting point.
If Buzz told IWB about it, it has to be a power play by Buzz right? No other reason to tell a "media" member is there?
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Most likely to get people to go to his website? Not necessarily because there was anything legit. Keep in mind, no other person reported on this "rumor".
Lab, there are two possibilities:
1. IWB totally fabricated the story to drive traffic to his website
or
2. IWB had a good source for his story
You seem to think that because Buzz didn't leave that #1 is proven true, but that's nonsense. Nobody said he was definitely going. Is it logical to anyone that IWB, in an effort to drive traffic to his website on a one time basis, would sacrifice any and all credibility he's built over time and effectively destroy his relationship with Buzz by publishing lies? Not to me.
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A very nice self-serving relationship ;)
Nothing blew up until IWB's tweet and then subsequent "Could Buzz leave" / yes, he may article...
This is actually an interesting point.
If Buzz told IWB about it, it has to be a power play by Buzz right? No other reason to tell a "media" member is there?
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Lab, there are two possibilities:
1. IWB totally fabricated the story to drive traffic to his website
or
2. IWB had a good source for his story
You seem to think that because Buzz didn't leave that #1 is proven true, but that's nonsense. Nobody said he was definitely going. Is it logical to anyone that IWB, in an effort to drive traffic to his website on a one time basis, would sacrifice any and all credibility he's built over time and effectively destroy his relationship with Buzz by publishing lies? Not to me.
Possibility # 3
IWB's source used him to stir the pot and make a point through the resulting furor.
I don't doubt for a second someone told IWB what he reported. I do doubt Buzz used the SMU interest for anything more than make a point.
These things happen. A lot.
Edit: I would add that it wouldn't surprise me at all if IWB very well kew this was a strong possibility. He kept his source happy (not an unimportant consideration in that business), drove traffic to his site and got his fledgling operation a bit of national attention.
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Possibility # 3
IWB's source used him to stir the pot and make a point through the resulting furor.
I don't doubt for a second someone told IWB what he reported. I do doubt Buzz used the SMU interest for anything more than make a point.
These things happen. A lot.
Exactly. I don't think anybody is suggesting IWB made this up out of whole cloth; I'm certainly not.
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If Buzz used SMU to make a point, I don't want to hear about the, "Aww shucks, he would say if he were unhappy, he's a straight up dude," stuff. I think this board tends to conflate Buzz being a moral guy with Buzz not understanding/using how the system works.
Buzz is a very moral guy, and I have tremendous amount of respect for him. But what I take from this is that he doesn't feel he "owes" us anything anymore. Up to this point, he always talked about how grateful he was to MU, and how he'd stay till we wouldn't have him anymore. I think that when the Prez/AD changes were made, and whatever else happened behind the scenes, that sense of indebtedness went away.
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Buzz is a very moral guy, and I have tremendous amount of respect for him. But what I take from this is that he doesn't feel he "owes" us anything anymore. Up to this point, he always talked about how grateful he was to MU, and how he'd stay till we wouldn't have him anymore. I think that when the Prez/AD changes were made, and whatever else happened behind the scenes, that sense of indebtedness went away.
This is my sense by the whole bouhaha as well. It's unfortunate, actually.
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If Buzz used SMU to make a point, I don't want to hear about the, "Aww shucks, he would say if he were unhappy, he's a straight up dude," stuff. I think this board tends to conflate Buzz being a moral guy with Buzz not understanding/using how the system works.
Buzz is a very moral guy, and I have tremendous amount of respect for him. But what I take from this is that he doesn't feel he "owes" us anything anymore. Up to this point, he always talked about how grateful he was to MU, and how he'd stay till we wouldn't have him anymore. I think that when the Prez/AD changes were made, and whatever else happened behind the scenes, that sense of indebtedness went away.
Why would Buzz owe anything to Fr Pilarz or Larry Williams? Neither have anything to do with his being here and Williams at least seems pretty comfortable calling him on the carpet in public.
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Why would Buzz owe anything to Fr Pilarz or Larry Williams? Neither have anything to do with his being here and Williams at least seems pretty comfortable calling him on the carpet in public.
I didn't say he did. But arguendo, a Prez and an AD do not a University make.
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Most likely to get people to go to his website? Not necessarily because there was anything legit. Keep in mind, no other person reported on this "rumor".
You guys can believe whatever you want. This was no rumor. I remember hearing back in early Feb. that the Williams/Pilarz/Williams relationship wasn't going well. This was when we were rolling. I thought about posting something, but didn't want the flaming douche posts that would ensue. MU was ACTIVELY reaching out to targets on Tuesday. That is a fact. They were scared. Now, on to opinion -- we were very lucky it was SMU calling.
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Most likely to get people to go to his website? Not necessarily because there was anything legit. Keep in mind, no other person reported on this "rumor".
Not a chance. IWB wouldn't do that to Buzz or to Marquette. IMO, and I have no proof for this, but Buzz and IWB talked, and that is the reason the tweet went out. To deny this was real is foolhardy.
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Larry's just a pawn. If Pilarz wants heat on buzz he'll tell larry what to do or back off. Hopefully Pilarz ain't DiUlio esque.
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Not a chance. IWB wouldn't do that to Buzz or to Marquette. IMO, and I have no proof for this, but Buzz and IWB talked, and that is the reason the tweet went out. To deny this was real is foolhardy.
Then why did every other member of the media who has a pulse on the finger of college basketball -- including a couple who know Buzz VERY well -- dismiss it as nonsense?
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Not a chance. IWB wouldn't do that to Buzz or to Marquette. IMO, and I have no proof for this, but Buzz and IWB talked, and that is the reason the tweet went out. To deny this was real is foolhardy.
I think we've got two distinct issues here:
1. Did Buzz (or someone else) slip this information to IWB, and did he accurately report what was told to him?
I think yes on both counts.
2. Was Buzz seriously contemplating a jump to SMU, or was he using SMU's interest, the leak to IWB and the resulting furor primarily as a means to establish himself as the Alpha dog?
I think it was the latter.
Of course, there was a chance the administration simply could have called Buzz's bluff, told him to enjoy life as a Big East bottom feeder, future appearances in the CBI and being the football team's second fiddle.
Fortunately, everyone realized they all had way too much at stake for that to happen and cooler heads prevailed.
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Sooooooo, at the end of the day, we don't really know what went on.
Correct?
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I think the craziness that happened wasn't due to IWB's tweet and article. He pretty much said that MU granted permission and and the relationship wasn't great. Everyone here with their rumors and stuff created the craziness. I'm not doubting Goose's or anyone else's sources. It's just that the whole idea of the AD and President forcing out Buzz got everyone fired up. While that may have been accurate, IWB didn't go as far into detail as those that posted here did.
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Then why did every other member of the media who has a pulse on the finger of college basketball -- including a couple who know Buzz VERY well -- dismiss it as nonsense?
Like whom? I don't recall anyone dismissing it as nonsense. This whole thing went from about Sunday afternoon to Tuesday afternoon.
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Why would Buzz owe anything to Fr Pilarz or Larry Williams? Neither have anything to do with his being here and Williams at least seems pretty comfortable calling him on the carpet in public.
Not to get off topic, but I would say "calling him on the carpet" is a exaggeration, especially given the way Buzz talks about his own team.
Could that have been interpreted wrongly by Buzz? Yes, it's possible.
Does that mean it's accurate to say Larry "called him on the carpet"? No, not really.
The comments were honest and accurate. That's the same thing we applaud Buzz for.
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Not and I repeat NOT trying to prolong thread or stir the pot but I do not think this has completely run it's course yet for next year. Believe me or not but the unhappy member of this relationship started out being someone other than Buzz. I will feel completely comfortable in about two weeks that this is ending well for the time being. Buzz is crazy sort and still could hit the bricks. Again, not trying to create a bigger story or piss anyone off...just a feeling I got.
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Like whom? I don't recall anyone dismissing it as nonsense. This whole thing went from about Sunday afternoon to Tuesday afternoon.
Monday morning, Katz wrote he would be "stunned" if Buzz went to SMU and said it was "wishful thinking" on their part. Goodman -- and I realize this was after the joint statement was released -- said there was "never a chance" Buzz was taking the SMU job, regardless of the money involved.
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Like whom? I don't recall anyone dismissing it as nonsense. This whole thing went from about Sunday afternoon to Tuesday afternoon.
Seth Davis said he "would be shocked" if Buzz went to SMU
Andy Katz dismissed it as "wishful thinking" by SMU.
Jeff Goodman called it "unlikely."
I don't think anyone used the word nonsense, but it's pretty evident none of the major voices in college basketball media were under the impression Buzz to SMU was a serious possibility.
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Not saying you did Goose, just saying that people went further into it with things they heard, and people took off running with that and amped up the emailing and all that. Just trying to say that it wasn't IWB's tweet or article that set it off. Based on the information you shared, it's not surprising people were angry about it. Not saying that you were trying to stir the pot, just what happens with the nature of the information you provided.
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Saying that Marquette has allowed Buzz to take "kids that historically MU has not allowed" is inaccurate, and if it refers to Jucos smacks of bigotry. Al took Jucos, Crean took Jucos and furthermore road the coattails of a kid MU most certainly historically didn't allow (prop 48) all the way to Bloomington.
I've been told by others you like to guess at what people are thinking and then deciding that is what they said. ::)
I would note I didn't say Jucos and have actually stated on several occasions that I have zero issues with any JUCOs. None. To your point, MU has taken Jucos before, one of my favorites was Marcus Jackson. Jae Crowder was another. Tyrone Baldwin another.
Since you didn't comment on anything else in my post, is it safe to assume that you agree he is well compensated, that his basketball budget is top notch, etc?
All this ball squeezing that is supposedly going on, what is it? Where is it? His pay? No. His recruiting budget? No. His overall budget? No. His ability to recruit kids? No (you said so yourself).
Where and what is the ball squeezing? This has been asked over and over again in the 100+ page thread of you, Goose, and the others that are throwing out this line that he is somehow under the thumb of the university. Please be specific.
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Hey Hoop....maybe just in real simple terms Fr. P just does not like Buzz for some unknown reason. Do you think that is a possibility?
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Hey Hoop....maybe just in real simple terms Fr. P just does not like Buzz for some unknown reason. Do you think that is a possibility?
Fr. Pilarz was big in getting this whole nonsense resolved. He's been nothing but supportive of Buzz and the program, at least publicly.
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Fr. Pilarz was big in getting this whole nonsense resolved. He's been nothing but supportive of Buzz and the program, at least publicly.
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You guys can believe whatever you want. This was no rumor. I remember hearing back in early Feb. that the Williams/Pilarz/Williams relationship wasn't going well. This was when we were rolling. I thought about posting something, but didn't want the flaming douche posts that would ensue. MU was ACTIVELY reaching out to targets on Tuesday. That is a fact. They were scared. Now, on to opinion -- we were very lucky it was SMU calling.
Please expound on these rumors. He's getting paid very well, has the budgets, is in a top conference, players are not being denied admission or anything along those lines. Exactly what is it that is triggering these rumors? What is not making Buzz happy?
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Hoop
You are the #1 fan why don't you provide sources that tell you everything is perfect on WisconsinAve? Every single guy that does not want to believe there was or is trouble gives their side of the story with no support for their argument. Do you have inside information that everything is great on campus? Does that source tell you Buzz is happy? Does that source tell you the school loves Buzz? Who is your source?
Seriously I have no problem with anyone having an opinion on my posts or one's that state similar views. Not sure why the anti Goose posters are so sure they are right. I would love for Hoop or Lab or 2002 say they just talked with so and so and confirmed that Goose is a frickin idiot. If you have concrete information that states I am nuts please share it.
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Hey Hoop....maybe just in real simple terms Fr. P just does not like Buzz for some unknown reason. Do you think that is a possibility?
Sure, that is a possibility. Normally there is a reason attached to it. Does he think he is arrogant? Disrespectful? Dumb? Too smart for his own good? Not Catholic? I'm going facetious here, but that is only to try and understand why. Normally people don't just decide to dislike someone, especially when they have a working relationship with another person for many months. There are triggers that start those those rocky relationships and usually one begets another unless they can cut it off at the pass before it becomes irreparable. Buzz comes off as a very likable person. Where is the disconnect between the two?
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I think people like seth davis were saying they would have been shocked if he took it (cause its smu) not because they have any info. I really believe that iwb knew more than anyone.
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Hoop
You are the #1 fan why don't you provide sources that tell you everything is perfect on WisconsinAve? Every single guy that does not want to believe there was or is trouble gives their side of the story with no support for their argument. Do you have inside information that everything is great on campus? Does that source tell you Buzz is happy? Does that source tell you the school loves Buzz? Who is your source?
Seriously I have no problem with anyone having an opinion on my posts or one's that state similar views. Not sure why the anti Goose posters are so sure they are right. I would love for Hoop or Lab or 2002 say they just talked with so and so and confirmed that Goose is a frickin idiot. If you have concrete information that states I am nuts please share it.
I do not expect everything to be perfect, that isn't realistic. Al McGuire had top 5 teams and he and Raynor (and Scott, etc) butted heads enough that Al wanted out to coach the Bucks. It happens everywhere.
Your last post was probably the best one on the entire topic. You said Pilarz doesn't like Buzz. That's all people were asking for, something other than ball squeezing. At one point this past week we were led to believe that we needed to be relegated to SLU or Loyola basketball status. The rhetoric wasn't matching the reality of his pay, his budgets, the kids he has brought in. It is hard to believe random internet rumors when they don't square with the dollars spent. Now it seems to be a personality issue between president and coach. That's a different thing and wish that could have been expressed 88 pages ago. ;D
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Hoop
Fr. P came in and inherited Buzz. I would say any of the reasons you stated are probably legit not to a like a person. If I had to pick a reason I would pick too smart for his own good. I take Buzz at face value 80% of the time and 20% of the time I think he is outsmarting everyone. I have no problem with that but not signing any checks to the man.
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Sooooooo, at the end of the day, we don't really know what went on.
Correct?
Words of wisdom!!
This should have been the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread as well as the last.
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Words of wisdom!!
This should have been the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread as well as the last.
I disagree with everyone that bitches and moans that there isn't anything to talk about with this/this isn't worth talking about unless you have inside information. There has been so much smoke the past week and a noticeable change in tone from all parties involved since this exact situation arose a year ago, that I think trying to piece things together is only sensible. Just because a lot of these conversations have lead themselves to histrionics doesn't mean there is no value to trying to work things through in a rational way... but I admit the results on that score haven't been great.
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worst case scenario: Pilarz is Chicos-esque and doesn't like JUCOs and Buzz's style, and in twelve months we can expect a Keno Davis type hire at MU.
best case scenario: Pilarz really is the peace keeper and loves Buzz and Larry Williams really is dumb enough to piss off the driver of the b-ball advertising and money machine when it's at full speed.
Firing of Cottingham has me leaning toward worst case scenario.
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Stone Cold
Do we really want our President deciding our style of play?
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Stone Cold
Do we really want our President deciding our style of play?
Jesuits always know best.
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Fr. Pilarz was big in getting this whole nonsense resolved. He's been nothing but supportive of Buzz and the program, at least publicly.
Really? What has Pilarz said in public. He certainly does not respond to many emails.
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I've been told by others you like to guess at what people are thinking and then deciding that is what they said. ::)
I would note I didn't say Jucos and have actually stated on several occasions that I have zero issues with any JUCOs. None. To your point, MU has taken Jucos before, one of my favorites was Marcus Jackson. Jae Crowder was another. Tyrone Baldwin another.
Since you didn't comment on anything else in my post, is it safe to assume that you agree he is well compensated, that his basketball budget is top notch, etc?
All this ball squeezing that is supposedly going on, what is it? Where is it? His pay? No. His recruiting budget? No. His overall budget? No. His ability to recruit kids? No (you said so yourself).
Where and what is the ball squeezing? This has been asked over and over again in the 100+ page thread of you, Goose, and the others that are throwing out this line that he is somehow under the thumb of the university. Please be specific.
If these guys that Marquette is allowing in for Buzz that weren't allowed in the past aren't Jucos who are they? A simple I was wrong would have sufficed.
As to the rest of your post, certainly Buzz has a good salary and basketball has a large budget. Fr Pilarz and Larry Williams had nothing to do with establishing those numbers.
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I have a feeling that This has taken Pilarz by surprise. Smells like a few boosters to me. Pilarz doesn't want to deal with this crap.
There is a somewhat large faction of boosters who use access to Marquette basketball as bizarre confirmation of their own Professional success. These are guys at the game in suit coats and cashmere scarves. These are people who wouldn't be caught dead at Buck Bradleys or anyplace on 3rd St or elsewhere. I believe they are a very loud minority opinion on all things MU. And I hate to say this...and if you knew me at all you'd know I never make this claim...but the whole uproar about these so called off court "incidents" is steeped in racism. And I believe some of these well heeled boosters don't like explaining the make up of MUs basketball team to their friends while the Badgers roster looks much different.
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PRN
I disagree with the booster comment, I believe the big supporters of Buzz are still big supporters of Buzz. Your comment about MU style players vs. Badger players I think plays a role in the big picture. The big swinging dick boosters want to win and win now. Believe there is a faction of second tier boosters that would prefer Badger style kids. I alluded to that two days ago and think the vocal minority assume the worst of the kids.
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for all any of us know larry williams called buzz after the dance at wv and they had a good laugh about it and then decided larry would post a public comment like the one he did...i think most coaches have a huge let down after a season and it's such an emotional drop that they re-think things.
i have a few connections through friends to some of the boosters who are at the top of mu's list...it seems like winning is everything...
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Avid
The big boy boosters on board and want to go along for the ride.
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Avid
The big boy boosters on board and want to go along for the ride.
I hope they let LW and FP know.
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Muskie
My bet is some of the fella's let them know who pays the bills.
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Avid
The big boy boosters on board and want to go along for the ride.
the big boy basketball boosters are. the question is are the big boy university donors on board? that is were the vocal minority come from.
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Bingo ZFB!!! It comes down to what they program to be. I do not want to be Kentucky but would like to try to win a NCAA championship.
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Bottom line is MU and Buzz are just not a good fit. Things have changed and unless one side blinks, I expect they'll decide to go their own way.
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4ever
probably true...can we talk about Dooley
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The leaving of Fr. Wild might signal the end of MU playing big boy basketball.
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Bottom line is MU and Buzz are just not a good fit. Things have changed and unless one side blinks, I expect they'll decide to go their own way.
How did we go from 100+ pages a couple days ago about what a perfect fit Buzz and MU were, to this?
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Muskie
Did we really think statement made it all better or were we just tired? I was happy it brought a couple of days of craziness to an end but did not think statement was cure all. Anyone that has been around the program for some time knows that it does not always do the right things. When I hit the pad on Tuesday night I told my wife this is not the end of the story.
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Keep stirring the pot Goose - you an investor in IWB's site?
Muskie
Did we really think statement made it all better or were we just tired? I was happy it brought a couple of days of craziness to an end but did not think statement was cure all. Anyone that has been around the program for some time knows that it does not always do the right things. When I hit the pad on Tuesday night I told my wife this is not the end of the story.
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I don't understand this negativity either. It's the kind of thing that drives Buzz nuts - because he has said over and over he wants to stay at MU. We don't know what happened behind hte scenes, but let's at least be happy that the statement indicates that Buzz is staying. Given that, if there are issues - which we do not know - then there will be time to smooth them out - but again, we really don't know if there are or were issues.
I'm happy he plans to stay aboard at Marquette.
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Daniel
I hear what you say and respect your posts a lot. You obviously are a long time fan and love your positive attitude. My whole point on the realllllllllly long thread was to let people know there was an issue. If they felt need to bash me or email the parties in question all the better. Now two days after the statement i do think there is a dark cloud over the situation and needs to be discussed.
You seem like a really good fan and like the positive attitude. Hate to say it but we might have potholes ahead of us. I wish we were talking about S Taylor and Burton who are real studs.
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The naïveté on this board is just beyond comprehension.
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4ever
Am I that naive?
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Daniel
I hear what you say and respect your posts a lot. You obviously are a long time fan and love your positive attitude. My whole point on the realllllllllly long thread was to let people know there was an issue. If they felt need to bash me or email the parties in question all the better. Now two days after the statement i do think there is a dark cloud over the situation and needs to be discussed.
You seem like a really good fan and like the positive attitude. Hate to say it but we might have potholes ahead of us. I wish we were talking about S Taylor and Burton who are real studs.
Thanks Goose. If "there was an issue" I hope the operative word is "WAS". Why can't we assume the issue is now resolved? Perhaps it will take time, if there was some friction, to smooth things over. But I have seen this time and time again in the corporate world. It can work out, and often does. I am hoping it does here, and the press release statement was a positive indicator. That's all I'm saying
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Bottom line is MU and Buzz are just not a good fit.
Could you explain this statement? How are they not a good fit, exactly?
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So enlighten us why Buzz and MU are no longer a fit oh so smart one..
The naïveté on this board is just beyond comprehension.
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So enlighten us why Buzz and MU are no longer a fit oh so smart one..
Yeah right. 4ever's good for one-liners and one-liners only.
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4ever has seen and lived more MU ball than most of you combined. He might be a man of few words but when he talks ball......listen. I lived MU ball for many years and pride myself on knowledge of our history and I can tell you 4ever and Lenny's Tap know their stuff.
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4ever has seen and lived more MU ball than most of you combined. He might be a man of few words but when he talks ball......listen. I lived MU ball for many years and pride myself on knowledge of our history and I can tell you 4ever and Lenny's Tap know their stuff.
I like 4ever, but "man of few words?" What? He has 5,391 posts, and is ranked #5 on this site.
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4ever should be consulted by Fr.P on coaching situation for the dues he has paid to this program. This program has different meaning to all of us and think that should be respected. Some are newbies and some are old guards and all have right to opinion. I don't give a crap if anyone gets pissed at me but this program is worth fighting for.
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Yo, it's really easily seen. Start with the given, i.e. both the current administration and Buzz want MU to have a successful men's basketball program. Two problems, in definition, arise. What is meant by successful and how do you get there? It is equally clear that the administration is very concerned with the route of success. What's more fuzzy, however, is success is a subjective word.
The playing field has changed. Remember neither Fr. Pilarz nor Larry Williams had a hand in Buzz' hiring. Buzz' happiness has been messed with. Now, maybe it needed messing. Who knows? Again, can be debated ad nauseum.
Public perception is critically important to both Buzz and the university, and with good reason. Lots of dinero at stake here. Expect both to put on a smiley face. Though, reading between the lines of each public statement..........this is far from over.
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I like 4ever, but "man of few words?" What? He has 5,391 posts, and is ranked #5 on this site.
I think Goose was referring to his style - his posts are short, to the point and, to my (twisted) mind, often hilarious.
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Yo, it's really easily seen. Start with the given, i.e. both the current administration and Buzz want MU to have a successful men's basketball program. Two problems, in definition, arise. What is meant by successful and how do you get there? It is equally clear that the administration is very concerned with the route of success. What's more fuzzy, however, is success is a subjective word.
The playing field has changed. Remember neither Fr. Pilarz nor Larry Williams had a hand in Buzz' hiring. Buzz' happiness has been messed with. Now, maybe it needed messing. Who knows? Again, can be debated ad nauseum.
Public perception is critically important to both Buzz and the university, and with good reason. Lots of dinero at stake here. Expect both to put on a smiley face. Though, reading between the lines of each public statement..........this is far from over.
Pefect summary.
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So the PR firm who crafted the public statements crafted them in a way that leaves the ambiguity that the situation is far from over...
seems like MU need a new PR firm already...
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SMU gig was just a dance with another girl to let your lady know you still got it. Problem is with a move like that you might end up sleeping on the couch. Buzz knows what he is doing and will ultimately do what is best for him. If I had to place a sizable bet today I would say one and done for Buzz.
Hmmm, two hours earlier at 12:36 you stated, "I am betting things get fixed."
So which is it? ?-(
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Yo, it's really easily seen. Start with the given, i.e. both the current administration and Buzz want MU to have a successful men's basketball program. Two problems, in definition, arise. What is meant by successful and how do you get there? It is equally clear that the administration is very concerned with the route of success. What's more fuzzy, however, is success is a subjective word.
The playing field has changed. Remember neither Fr. Pilarz nor Larry Williams had a hand in Buzz' hiring. Buzz' happiness has been messed with. Now, maybe it needed messing. Who knows? Again, can be debated ad nauseum.
Public perception is critically important to both Buzz and the university, and with good reason. Lots of dinero at stake here. Expect both to put on a smiley face. Though, reading between the lines of each public statement..........this is far from over.
Marquette has had one "golden era" in basketball. The good fathers kind of lucked out with Al and for 10 years we were the 2nd best program in the country. But the stakes were much smaller then and Al was such a force it was accomplished without much committment from the university.
Times have changed. The money is now huge and the competition much more fierce. Father Wild decided to break from our mostly mediocre recent basketball history and play with the big boys. His parting gift to his successor was a program on the brink of greatness with one of the finest young coaches (and even a finer young man) at the helm. And also a man wildly popular with the media and the alumni, much like Al was. If ever a college president was "handed the keys to a Ferarri" it was Fr Pilarz, but maybe the BOT wasn't interested in MU being a Ferarri - maybe a sensible Honda Accord was more their cup of tea. Maybe that's what's going on and Pilarz is being a good soldier and "just following orders". Just remember, lots of really bad things have happened when people were just following orders. I really, really, really want to be wrong about this. But when a smart guy comes in and starts "messin'with happy" from the get go, I can see no reason other than he's following orders. Otherwise, I'm wrong about him being a smart guy.
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Lenny Man, Larry's a very smart soldier.
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4never is buzz's dentist and buzz won't listen to the teeth man that dip and sweet tea ain't good for the old gum line. Hence, the bearish position on buzz, aina?
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Hmmm, two hours earlier at 12:36 you stated, "I am betting things get fixed."
So which is it? ?-(
I'm wondering the same. Those two statements seem to contradict.
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where's bigdaddy84 when you need him?
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I've been told by others you like to guess at what people are thinking and then deciding that is what they said. ::)
I would note I didn't say Jucos and have actually stated on several occasions that I have zero issues with any JUCOs. None. To your point, MU has taken Jucos before, one of my favorites was Marcus Jackson. Jae Crowder was another. Tyrone Baldwin another.
Since you didn't comment on anything else in my post, is it safe to assume that you agree he is well compensated, that his basketball budget is top notch, etc?
All this ball squeezing that is supposedly going on, what is it? Where is it? His pay? No. His recruiting budget? No. His overall budget? No. His ability to recruit kids? No (you said so yourself).
Where and what is the ball squeezing? This has been asked over and over again in the 100+ page thread of you, Goose, and the others that are throwing out this line that he is somehow under the thumb of the university. Please be specific.
Chicos, you didn't say JUCOs but you say that Buzz has gotten kids in that previously weren't allowed in. I assume you mean under Tom Crean? Mike Deane? Please elaborate! I guaran-damn-tee you are talking out of your ass right now.
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Or a Prop 48 named Wade that got Crean his gig at I4?
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I don't know why people keep stirring the pot. If there's one thing all of us learned through that whole SMU exercise it should be Buzz and Corey are the only ones that know what is going on in Buzz' head.
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Yo, it's really easily seen. Start with the given, i.e. both the current administration and Buzz want MU to have a successful men's basketball program. Two problems, in definition, arise. What is meant by successful and how do you get there? It is equally clear that the administration is very concerned with the route of success. What's more fuzzy, however, is success is a subjective word.
The playing field has changed. Remember neither Fr. Pilarz nor Larry Williams had a hand in Buzz' hiring. Buzz' happiness has been messed with. Now, maybe it needed messing. Who knows? Again, can be debated ad nauseum.
Public perception is critically important to both Buzz and the university, and with good reason. Lots of dinero at stake here. Expect both to put on a smiley face. Though, reading between the lines of each public statement..........this is far from over.
Good posting. You seem to be saying the administration feels squirmy about certain instances.
I feel bad for Buzz. He loves his players and his players love him but some of their actions have put him in a tough spot.
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So which players that got in under Buzz wouldn't have previously Hoop? I haven't seen an answer to that yet.
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Or a Prop 48 named Wade that got Crean his gig at I4?
MU has taken other Prop 48 players. Gerald Posey for example.
Crean got the IU gig because if you can rebuild at Marquette, win consistently and keep your players out of trouble, graduating, etc, you can most certainly do it at Indiana. Remember the claims here that Crean could only get to the Sweet 16 with Wade? I guess Wade suited up for IU this March.
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So which players that got in under Buzz wouldn't have previously Hoop? I haven't seen an answer to that yet.
I have no inside knowledge and don't claim to be an insider like some of the internet dorks here. From what I am reading on this board, his balls are being squeezed. Several posters have said the administration is holding him back from admitting the players he wants, messing with happy. Other posters have said the opposite. Some are implying the administration is not thrilled with the route of success (4ever's comments). Sounds like they feel squirmy.
What I have read here and in the media is more about quantity than anything else. MU has had one or two players on a team that were borderline. The Alton Mason's of the world. Aaron Hutchins, so on and so forth. Read some of the postings here and they suggest that the roster was given much more latitude in that area from a quantity perspective.
Of course, in reading this board one insider will say something and another one will say the exact opposite 10 minutes later. I only read what I read. If Buzz's balls are being squeezed and we know its not money, its not budgets, its not conference, it must be off the court stuff or the players. What else is left?
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Stone Cold
Do we really want our President deciding our style of play?
Style of play? No. Do we want our President to make sure Marquette is represented in the best light? That is part of his job.
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Also, let's not act like this is the first time that Marquette basketball players have gotten in trouble. It just never made the papers before. Granted the sexual assault allegations haven't happened before (that I know of), but fights aren't anything new. Now that may mean Crean was just better at not letting it get out or the sexual assault allegations brought about more media scrutiny. I honestly think it is probably a little of both.
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I have no inside knowledge and don't claim to be an insider like some of the internet dorks here. From what I am reading on this board, his balls are being squeezed. Several posters have said the administration is holding him back from admitting the players he wants, messing with happy. Other posters have said the opposite. Some are implying the administration is not thrilled with the route of success (4ever's comments). Sounds like they feel squirmy.
What I have read here and in the media is more about quantity than anything else. MU has had one or two players on a team that were borderline. The Alton Mason's of the world. Aaron Hutchins, so on and so forth. Read some of the postings here and they suggest that the roster was given much more latitude in that area from a quantity perspective.
Of course, in reading this board one insider will say something and another one will say the exact opposite 10 minutes later. I only read what I read. If Buzz's balls are being squeezed and we know its not money, its not budgets, its not conference, it must be off the court stuff or the players. What else is left?
Chicos, you didn't answer the question and are now playing it off as "some of the postings here" suggest that. You claimed it that it is being done differently under Buzz than previously... stand up for that statement if you think it is correct!
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Granted the sexual assault allegations haven't happened before (that I know of), but fights aren't anything new. Now that may mean Crean was just better at not letting it get out or the sexual assault allegations brought about more media scrutiny. I honestly think it is probably a little of both.
This is very, very true. People kvetching about the nightclub thing would have been going nuts about what Dominic and Jerel got off the hook for as freshman. Crean managed to keep them from getting arrested on at least one occasion.
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PRN
I disagree with the booster comment, I believe the big supporters of Buzz are still big supporters of Buzz. Your comment about MU style players vs. Badger players I think plays a role in the big picture. The big swinging dick boosters want to win and win now. Believe there is a faction of second tier boosters that would prefer Badger style kids. I alluded to that two days ago and think the vocal minority assume the worst of the kids.
Second tier posters in the sense of basketball or the university? There are some major donors at MU that don't give a hoot about basketball but care deeply about the university. Pilarz has to balance all those needs. Not an easy job.
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Chicos, you didn't answer the question and are now playing it off as "some of the postings here" suggest that. You claimed it that it is being done differently under Buzz than previously... stand up for that statement if you think it is correct!
You keep calling me Chicos and I am not going to answer your question. You want to talk to him, talk to him. Send him an email. Send him a PM.
Also, let's not act like this is the first time that Marquette basketball players have gotten in trouble. It just never made the papers before. Granted the sexual assault allegations haven't happened before (that I know of), but fights aren't anything new. Now that may mean Crean was just better at not letting it get out or the sexual assault allegations brought about more media scrutiny. I honestly think it is probably a little of both.
Agree. Stuff happens and sometimes it doesn't get out. The problem is that once it does get to the papers, then the papers come looking for more. Then you get into a drip, drip, drip, drip scenario where they turn over every rock.
This is why Buzz must be going crazy at times whenever another incident pops up. I would sit down with them and beg, plead, whatever it takes. "If you love me boys, stay out of trouble. Don't do this, this, this, that, that, or this because its putting me in a tough spot with the old guard that is already skeptical of you guys."
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Chicos, you didn't answer the question and are now playing it off as "some of the postings here" suggest that. You claimed it that it is being done differently under Buzz than previously... stand up for that statement if you think it is correct!
This is easy, Vike. Hoopos was so eager to denigrate Buzz he made some stuff up. He got called out on his fiction so he's talking in circles, blaming non existant "others". Obfuscation is one of his many talents.
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You keep calling me Chicos and I am not going to answer your question. You want to talk to him, talk to him. Send him an email. Send him a PM.
Agree. Stuff happens and sometimes it doesn't get out. The problem is that once it does get to the papers, then the papers come looking for more. Then you get into a drip, drip, drip, drip scenario where they turn over every rock.
This is why Buzz must be going crazy at times whenever another incident pops up. I would sit down with them and beg, plead, whatever it takes. "If you love me boys, stay out of trouble. Don't do this, this, this, that, that, or this because its putting me in a tough spot with the old guard that is already skeptical of you guys."
OK, I will call you Hoopaloop, if that's what you like to be called. Please explain your remark that Buzz is getting kids in who wouldn't have previously been admitted under, presumably, Crean. Thank you.
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MU has taken other Prop 48 players. Gerald Posey for example.
Other playerS? Wade, Posey and who else?
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Hard to believe one of Chicos favorite juco transfers was Tyrone Baldwin, who if memory serves, pummeled a fellow student on Wells Street during his time in Milwaukee.
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Hard to believe one of Chicos favorite juco transfers was Tyrone Baldwin, who if memory serves, pummeled a fellow student on Wells Street during his time in Milwaukee.
hmm...sounds, dare I say, squirmy?
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ZFB
Would have voted hung like horse last night.
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Show can be watched here:
http://www.gomarquette.com/blog/2012/03/inside-marquette-basketball---season-finale.html
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ZFB
Would have voted hung like horse last night.
yeah, WTF happened? Ghosts in the machine???
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Again, I am not going to read anything into the Homer show. If Buzz wanted to leave he had every opportunity to bolt the past 72 hours. The man is highly regarded and does not need to be here if was unhappy. Either things get mended over next year or he is gone. I am betting things get fixed.
SMU gig was just a dance with another girl to let your lady know you still got it. Problem is with a move like that you might end up sleeping on the couch. Buzz knows what he is doing and will ultimately do what is best for him. If I had to place a sizable bet today I would say one and done for Buzz.
Goose, I'm not trying to start an argument or call you out. I'd just like to know how you changed your mind within two hours or if I'm missing something. It could just be that you were analyzing everything you've heard and decided to change your mind. It could be that you heard some new information. I'd just like to know.
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Other playerS? Wade, Posey and who else?
Those are the only two I remember off the top of my head by name, but thought there was another. Was someone implying that only Crean was able to get a Prop 48? That was my interpretation. If I'm wrong, I am wrong. Will not be the first or the last time.
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Hard to believe one of Chicos favorite juco transfers was Tyrone Baldwin, who if memory serves, pummeled a fellow student on Wells Street during his time in Milwaukee.
You sure have an obsession with him, but since you were directing this at me I'll answer it again. I have no issues with JUCO players. That is one of many areas we differ, yet you still say I am him. ::) If memory serves, he believes 4 year players are better for stability of a program. In some ways, he is right. Would you have rather had Jae here for 4 years or only 2? By the time Jae got going, we really only had him for 1.5 years. A great 1.5 years but it would have been nice to have him here longer. Then again, I'm glad we had him. If he qualifies he qualifies. Not everyone agrees. The media has certainly taken their shots at MU for going after Juco players. From my understanding of reading this board, some donors and MU administrators aren't thrilled with it either. Fortunately the kids that Buzz has recruited have mostly been good kids, that can change perceptions.
I loved Tyrone Baldwin except for one moment in time against Wisconsin when he went over and back and we lost to the Badgers. Not sure where Chicos is with him, why don't you ask him?
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I don't know why people keep stirring the pot. If there's one thing all of us learned through that whole SMU exercise it should be Buzz and Corey are the only ones that know what is going on in Buzz' head.
This needs to be automatically inserted after every post here. I've never seen emotion taken as fact with such absolute trust.
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From my understanding of reading this board, some donors and MU administrators aren't thrilled with it either. Fortunately the kids that Buzz has recruited have mostly been good kids, that can change perceptions.
Is Marc Marotta still all over the JUCO recruiting?
In hindsight, Hank Raymonds and Rick Majerus should have gone after Ronnie Williams from St. John's Military Academy instead of Marotta.
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Williams was earmarked for Florida early on.
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Is Marc Marotta still all over the JUCO recruiting?
In hindsight, Hank Raymonds and Rick Majerus should have gone after Ronnie Williams from St. John's Military Academy instead of Marotta.
But, but, but, MM was a Rhodes Scholar finalist or something, wasn't he? That should count for something.
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Ronnie was a heckuva player. He and DJ were some duo in high school.
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What does MM have to do with Juco recruiting?
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Gotta loves threads that just ramble on about the same things over and over.
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Gotta loves threads that just ramble on about the same things over and over.
Sort of like people who ramble on about how Durley needs to go to JUCO over and over?
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Williams was earmarked for Florida early on.
Marotta was the consolation prize when MU didn't get Gary Springer from New York that year?
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Does anyone know how MM (the academic all-American) came to be driving a Jaguar his senior year?
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Does anyone know how MM (the academic all-American) came to be driving a Jaguar his senior year?
A 4 year athletic scholarship at MU loosens up some bread for a family that isn't strapped to begin with.
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Does anyone know how MM (the academic all-American) came to be driving a Jaguar his senior year?
Marotta's family had a lot of coin. That's how