their payroll just vaulted above the $215 million mark with the signing of mercenary Roger Clemens. Hope they enjoy beating up on the $21 milliion Devil Rays.
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
I can't stand all the poser Yankee fans around the country, though. They make Cubs fans look intelligent.
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
I can't stand all the poser Yankee fans around the country, though. They make Cubs fans look intelligent.
lets not go that far... Cubs fans believe that a Billy Goat is not letting their team win the world series
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
With the Brewers standing alone atop the NL Central, I'd imagine a few folks in Brew City care that one of their divisional rivals was dealt a near-fatal blow today. (One day after the Cards may have had the same because of the Carpenter surgery -- a good weekend for Ned Yost's guys).
Why doesn't the Brew Crew's skipper legally change his name to Ned Yeast?
BTW, Clemens isn't going to change that injury-plagued lineup much...
Quote from: ecompt on May 06, 2007, 03:03:24 PM
their payroll just vaulted above the $215 million mark with the signing of mercenary Roger Clemens. Hope they enjoy beating up on the $21 milliion Devil Rays.
Why do you hate the Yankees? Or do you just dislike a personal fan experience with them or that they spend a lot of money?
Quote from: NYWarrior on May 06, 2007, 08:51:54 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
With the Brewers standing alone atop the NL Central, I'd imagine a few folks in Brew City care that one of their divisional rivals was dealt a near-fatal blow today. (One day after the Cards may have had the same because of the Carpenter surgery -- a good weekend for Ned Yost's guys).
A good weekend is when one of the game's better player's get's injured? ::)
I hate the Yankees because they deprive the small-market teams of any competitive chance. They buy and buy and buy and don't care who they roll over in doing it. They only get away with it because the players' union will not allow the salary cap that has saved the other sports. Brewer fans don't hate the Yankees just yet because the Yanks haven't invaded their roster yet. Just wait until the Brewers win something; then Steinbrenner will swoop in and Hall, Sheets, Capuano, Cordero, Fielder will all be gone,. You'll see.
Exactly, and amen to that.
The Yankees have always bought the best talent around because they had more money. Even in the pre-free agency era they bought players from teams.
Also, the incredible arrogance of Steinbrenner and Yankee fans is stunning. They make Notre Dame look like a meek and mild bunch.
Boo hoo, the Yankees haven't won the WS in six years.....White Sox and Red Sox fans waited over 80 years to win one, and Cubs fans will be waiting until the end of time.
I hate the Yankees because they represent all that is deeply wrong with the structure of Major League Baseball. Plus, its just nice to see the arrogance of New York take a hit once in awhile.
Don't blame the Yankees. Blame the system. It's not George Steinbrenner's responsibility to keep the Milwaukee Brewers and Kansas City Royals competitive, nor should it be. His responsibility is to make his team competitive and profitable, not protect the weaklings of the industry at the expense of his own franchise. Sheesh, guys, baseball is a business.
I'm all for a salary cap, but until then I won't fault Steinbrenner (or the Red Sox or the Cubs or the Angels or any other big spending team) for doing what's in the best interests of his team and his fans under the rules as they exist. It's ridiculous to suggest that Steinbrenner is a bad guy because he puts his team, his business associates and his millions of fans ahead of the 9,000 people who care about the Kansas City Royals. It would be ridiculous for him to do otherwise.
After all, this isn't Russia Danny.
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on May 06, 2007, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
I can't stand all the poser Yankee fans around the country, though. They make Cubs fans look intelligent.
lets not go that far... Cubs fans believe that a Billy Goat is not letting their team win the world series
Actually, true Cub fans don't believe that. We don't blame Steve Bartman either.
Went to the Brewers Pirates game on Thursday with a Cub hat on. Once it became apparent the Brew crew was going to lose, the entire section I was in began chanting "Cubbies suck". Now that's intelligent!
Quote from: HansMoleman on May 07, 2007, 08:44:23 AM
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on May 06, 2007, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
I can't stand all the poser Yankee fans around the country, though. They make Cubs fans look intelligent.
lets not go that far... Cubs fans believe that a Billy Goat is not letting their team win the world series
Actually, true Cub fans don't believe that. We don't blame Steve Bartman either.
Went to the Brewers Pirates game on Thursday with a Cub hat on. Once it became apparent the Brew crew was going to lose, the entire section I was in began chanting "Cubbies suck". Now that's intelligent!
Why isn't that intelligent? The Cubs DO suck, and so do their fans. The fans in Milwaukee only speak the truth.
GO BREWERS.
Quote from: MUAlum99 on May 07, 2007, 08:50:53 AM
Quote from: HansMoleman on May 07, 2007, 08:44:23 AM
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on May 06, 2007, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
I can't stand all the poser Yankee fans around the country, though. They make Cubs fans look intelligent.
lets not go that far... Cubs fans believe that a Billy Goat is not letting their team win the world series
Actually, true Cub fans don't believe that. We don't blame Steve Bartman either.
Went to the Brewers Pirates game on Thursday with a Cub hat on. Once it became apparent the Brew crew was going to lose, the entire section I was in began chanting "Cubbies suck". Now that's intelligent!
Why isn't that intelligent? The Cubs DO suck, and so do their fans. The fans in Milwaukee only speak the truth.
GO BREWERS.
Home from school today? First place in early May is making you delirious.
The whole town is delirious. I got banned from the other board yesterday for telling Dodds to keep Brewers talk on the baseball board.
It's a long season folks.
Quote from: HansMoleman on May 07, 2007, 08:59:45 AM
Home from school today? First place in early May is making you delirious.
First place in May beats any alternative.......particularly when two rivals (essentially) lost their top SP for the season over the weekend.
Quote from: HansMoleman on May 07, 2007, 08:59:45 AM
Quote from: MUAlum99 on May 07, 2007, 08:50:53 AM
Quote from: HansMoleman on May 07, 2007, 08:44:23 AM
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on May 06, 2007, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
I can't stand all the poser Yankee fans around the country, though. They make Cubs fans look intelligent.
lets not go that far... Cubs fans believe that a Billy Goat is not letting their team win the world series
Actually, true Cub fans don't believe that. We don't blame Steve Bartman either.
Went to the Brewers Pirates game on Thursday with a Cub hat on. Once it became apparent the Brew crew was going to lose, the entire section I was in began chanting "Cubbies suck". Now that's intelligent!
Why isn't that intelligent? The Cubs DO suck, and so do their fans. The fans in Milwaukee only speak the truth.
GO BREWERS.
Home from school today? First place in early May is making you delirious.
Because if the Cubs would have the best recrod in baseball you would keep your mouth shut... ::) ... please, we would be hearing ALL ABOUT IT from the "intelligent" fans...
what is intelligent is wearing a Cubs hat to a Brewer-Pirate game... sorry thats just bad on your part, I would have called you explicit words... one most likely starting with an A ;D
and why Brewer fans hate Cub fans... when in Millwer Park the Cub/Brewer rivalry (and no Im not mad that Cub fans spend money up here, keep it coming), but they absolutely trash the stadium.. my friend runs the bat stand in Miller Park (the Sawmill Slat stand), and he says every year every game multiple Cubs fans try to steal bats that they have out on display, every year, when that doesn't happen the rest of the year. Cub fans are classless, annoying, naive, and then try and drink with their Brewer fan friends, and struggle mightily! :) ... best record in baseball, try and knock us off our soapbox! We are ten games over .500 for the first time since 92, can't we have our moment, even if it is in May?
Hey Mayor -- maybe you can tell your friend that Cubs fans have been carrying the Brewers attendance numbers since they switched to the National League.
Incidentally, I worked at County Stadium during college. Back then it was White Sox fans that Brewer employees complained about. What they were really complaining about were big crowds, which they were not (and are not) used to.
I hate the Yankees for two reasons, one I'm a die-hard Red Sox fan. Two, people who know nothing about baseball become Yankees fans with no connection to the team at all. I've met people who lived in California, didn't know it was three strikes and four balls and still owned Yankee gear and "cheered" for them. Ignorance bothers me.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on May 07, 2007, 11:20:45 AM
Hey Mayor -- maybe you can tell your friend that Cubs fans have been carrying the Brewers attendance numbers since they switched to the National League.
Incidentally, I worked at County Stadium during college. Back then it was White Sox fans that Brewer employees complained about. What they were really complaining about were big crowds, which they were not (and are not) used to.
apparently you don't go to many Brewer games... yes, back then the attendance was low, however the past few years the attendance has been really high, the Cubs aren't carrying anything anymore for the Brewers, always something wrong in the eyes of PRN...
One slight argument, pakuni: yes, baseball is a business. And George is supposed to provide his fans a competitive team. But profitable? The Yankees had an operating loss last year of nearly $30 million. How many other teams could afford to lose that much and still come back the following year and throw away $215 million? Every other team in every other sport has an operating budget; the Yankees don't. They don't want competition. They want everyone else to suck so that they can dominate. If there had been a salary cap in baseball since the mid-1970s (when free agency started), the Yankees would have made the playoffs maybe three or four times. The people who cheer wildly for Roger Clemens are the same people who used to love the lions devouring the Christians.
QuoteWhat they were really complaining about were big crowds, which they were not (and are not) used to.
This is 100% true. The staff at the Brewers games are in general totally inept. I am a Cubs fan but I will root for the Brewers (when they are not playing the Cubs). It is absolutley ridiculous that ANY baseball concession stand should run out of hot dogs. That is just what happened to me last time i was at a brewers game. On top of that I waited in line for 40 minutes to get to the line and have them tell me they were out of hot dogs (and brats) and that If i wanted something I had to have a fricking polish.
In contrast I have been to two cubs games at wrigley this year and I have never waited for more than 5 minutes to get my food, they just shuttle people in and out of the line at a rapid pace, Brewers employees should be trained at wrigley. The crowds at wrigley are bigger yet the wait is shorter... go figure.
Sorry I had to rant, so slight to the brewers they are playing great ball and I hope they continue to do so to silence the critics who are saying how bad the NL Central is, they just need to learn how to serve food.
Incidentally, I too am a big Brewers fan. A Cubs fan first, a Brewers fan second.
Brewers drawing big crowds?
Last year they overall filled 68% of Miller Park.
And their only sell-outs coming from Opening Day, St.Louis, Cubs, and promotion days (Bobblehead Fridays, College Day, 1/2 Price Hot Dogs).
The Indians/Angels games during the week have outdrawn the Brewers during the week by 8k a game.
How did a thread about the Yankees get hijacked into a scintillating story about poor Spartan having to settle for a Polish? Just kidding man. Regarding Clemens. That fat piece of crap is going to get lit up in the American League.
Quote from: ecompt on May 07, 2007, 01:07:23 PM
One slight argument, pakuni: yes, baseball is a business. And George is supposed to provide his fans a competitive team. But profitable? The Yankees had an operating loss last year of nearly $30 million. How many other teams could afford to lose that much and still come back the following year and throw away $215 million? Every other team in every other sport has an operating budget; the Yankees don't. They don't want competition. They want everyone else to suck so that they can dominate. If there had been a salary cap in baseball since the mid-1970s (when free agency started), the Yankees would have made the playoffs maybe three or four times. The people who cheer wildly for Roger Clemens are the same people who used to love the lions devouring the Christians.
I think your income numbers may be a little misleading. Yes, the Yankees as a single entity loses money (a record $50 million in 2005, in fact) but they generate for its owners huge profits via the YES network, which in 2005 raked in $200 million. So things tend to balance themselves out.
Also, looking at the big picture, the Yankees are spending money to make money. Their single-year operating income may be at a loss, but their franchise value has grown nearly $400 million the past five years - and that's before they open their new stadium. It's akin to remodeling your kitchen: it may set you back for a year or two, but it'll pay off when it comes time to sell the house.
Quote from: ecompt on May 07, 2007, 06:40:24 AM
I hate the Yankees because they deprive the small-market teams of any competitive chance. They buy and buy and buy and don't care who they roll over in doing it. They only get away with it because the players' union will not allow the salary cap that has saved the other sports. Brewer fans don't hate the Yankees just yet because the Yanks haven't invaded their roster yet. Just wait until the Brewers win something; then Steinbrenner will swoop in and Hall, Sheets, Capuano, Cordero, Fielder will all be gone,. You'll see.
You assumed I didn't know how the system works, and that I was a Brwer fan. I merely asked why the poster hated the Yankees.
Quote from: BigSky on May 07, 2007, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: ecompt on May 07, 2007, 06:40:24 AM
I hate the Yankees because they deprive the small-market teams of any competitive chance. They buy and buy and buy and don't care who they roll over in doing it. They only get away with it because the players' union will not allow the salary cap that has saved the other sports. Brewer fans don't hate the Yankees just yet because the Yanks haven't invaded their roster yet. Just wait until the Brewers win something; then Steinbrenner will swoop in and Hall, Sheets, Capuano, Cordero, Fielder will all be gone,. You'll see.
You assumed I didn't know how the system works, and that I was a Brewer fan. I merely asked why you hated the Yankees.
Quote from: ecompt on May 07, 2007, 06:40:24 AM
I hate the Yankees because they deprive the small-market teams of any competitive chance. They buy and buy and buy and don't care who they roll over in doing it. They only get away with it because the players' union will not allow the salary cap that has saved the other sports. Brewer fans don't hate the Yankees just yet because the Yanks haven't invaded their roster yet. Just wait until the Brewers win something; then Steinbrenner will swoop in and Hall, Sheets, Capuano, Cordero, Fielder will all be gone,. You'll see.
The Yankees aren't the only team to do this...the Red Sox have been doing it a long time too. The Cubs are doing it. The Yankees have just won more than those teams who do the same thing....not in as high of numbers as the Yankees, but in high numbers, high enough to make a huge difference.
In all fairness, I don't think you can mention the Yankees and Cubs in the same breath. In fact, it's a stretch to link the Yankees with anyone. They will spend $75 million more than the second-place team (Boston) and more than $100 million more than all but three or four teams. And the new ballpark won't help that much financially since it will seat thousands less than the current Stadium, which is 95 percent full for the season. I know people argue it's good for baseball, but I don't see it. How do you explain to a kid in Kansas City or Pittsburgh that his team has NO chance of ever being competitive in consecutive seasons in his lifetime? Five years from now the Yanks' rotation will be Sheets, Zambrano, Santana, Liriano and Willis, with Capuano in long relief and Papelbon in the bullpen.
Quote from: ecompt on May 07, 2007, 09:30:23 PM
In all fairness, I don't think you can mention the Yankees and Cubs in the same breath. In fact, it's a stretch to link the Yankees with anyone. They will spend $75 million more than the second-place team (Boston) and more than $100 million more than all but three or four teams. And the new ballpark won't help that much financially since it will seat thousands less than the current Stadium, which is 95 percent full for the season. I know people argue it's good for baseball, but I don't see it. How do you explain to a kid in Kansas City or Pittsburgh that his team has NO chance of ever being competitive in consecutive seasons in his lifetime? Five years from now the Yanks' rotation will be Sheets, Zambrano, Santana, Liriano and Willis, with Capuano in long relief and Papelbon in the bullpen.
I think it is very fair to put Cubs, Red Sox etc...in that breath. You should be comparing each individual big spender with the small guys. The Yankees may do it way more than anyone else...but let's not kid ourselves about the spending of the Red Sox, Cubs, etc....
When the Red Sox won the World Series, they were treated in the meida and elsewhere as this little engine that could blue collar team....when in fact their payroll was more than $135 million or so.(huge disparity with the rest of baseball except the Yankees) I suppose with atht kind of spending I'm surprised there weren't more bake sales to raise money for the team.
Understand totally, but...
In 2004, the Red Sox' payroll was $57 million less than the Yankees', so the image of David and Goliath wasn't totally wrong. That same year the Yankees more than doubled the Cubs' payroll. You really can't compare what they spend to anyone else because everyone else had a budget.
Quote from: ecompt on May 07, 2007, 10:11:23 PM
Understand totally, but...
In 2004, the Red Sox' payroll was $57 million less than the Yankees', so the image of David and Goliath wasn't totally wrong. That same year the Yankees more than doubled the Cubs' payroll. You really can't compare what they spend to anyone else because everyone else had a budget.
What was the Red Sox payroll compared to the rest of baseball in 2004 minus the Yankees? The question is rhetorical. The Red Sox were Goliath and the rest of the league except the Yankees were David. It is absurd to sweep teams like the Red Sox under the rug...just using them as one example.
To say it is Yankees vs rest of baseball is incomplete. Boston has been nowhere near the rest of the league either. They just don't win as much.
I'm not trying to sweep the Red Sox under the rug and I'm not defending what they've done. What I'm saying is that baseball's system is a joke. If the NFL did not have a salary cap, the Washington Redskins would have won the last 10 Super Bowls. Daniel Snyder woukld have an All-Pro at every position and a $3 billion payroll. Hockey and basketball finally wised up. Baseball never will. The Yankees are one of the big reasons people hate New Yorkers.
Quote from: ecompt on May 08, 2007, 07:33:46 AM
I'm not trying to sweep the Red Sox under the rug and I'm not defending what they've done. What I'm saying is that baseball's system is a joke. If the NFL did not have a salary cap, the Washington Redskins would have won the last 10 Super Bowls. Daniel Snyder woukld have an All-Pro at every position and a $3 billion payroll. Hockey and basketball finally wised up. Baseball never will. The Yankees are one of the big reasons people hate New Yorkers.
Which is why the Yankees have won the last 6 World Series... What was Detroit's payroll last year? Oakland does well every year and they have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. Star power is great and it costs a pretty penny but it doesn't equate to championships, even in baseball.
You said that people become Yankee fans with no attachment to the team? That happens to a lot of teams and if you ask me I think the Red Sox have much more of those fans.
The Red Sox are a cute story every freaking year because of that whole curse thing that yall believed in. And just like the cubs cute stories leads to a big fan base who aint from New England, and who have no connection to the team.
The Yankees are my third favorite team behind the White Sox and Brewers and I have no assocation with New York. In fact I think I became a fan because I was sick of hearing how "They just spend money to win" while for some reason people thought the Red Sox where just using home grown talent or something.
Speaking of Home Grown talent, some of the best Yankees during their championship run where homegrown talent
Jeter/Posada/Williams
Quote from: BigSky on May 08, 2007, 12:48:48 AM
Quote from: ecompt on May 07, 2007, 10:11:23 PM
Understand totally, but...
In 2004, the Red Sox' payroll was $57 million less than the Yankees', so the image of David and Goliath wasn't totally wrong. That same year the Yankees more than doubled the Cubs' payroll. You really can't compare what they spend to anyone else because everyone else had a budget.
What was the Red Sox payroll compared to the rest of baseball in 2004 minus the Yankees? The question is rhetorical. The Red Sox were Goliath and the rest of the league except the Yankees were David. It is absurd to sweep teams like the Red Sox under the rug...just using them as one example.
To say it is Yankees vs rest of baseball is incomplete. Boston has been nowhere near the rest of the league either. They just don't win as much.
Boston was made out to be this little engine that could from Blue Collar Boston while The Yanks where this big trump esque corporation that had no soul.
Thats funny didn The Red Sox have less home grown talent on that team than the Yankees did? Yea they did
MUarmy: My point is that Detroit had its one surprising year, but can't compete over the long haul because Verlander, Bonderman and Zumaya will all be Yankees in a few years IF the Yankees want them. How you anyone think baseball is fair when Oakland produced Mulder, Hudson, Zito, Giambi and Tejada over the course of six years and lost them all? Have the Yankees EVER lost a player they wanted to keep? Hell, even when the Red Sox traded for A-Rod the players' union stepped in and said, "Nope. A-Rod has to be a Yankee." The reason they don't win now is they collect mercenaries with huge egos. There's no Paul O'Neill or Scott Brosius, the everyday guys who are the hearts and souls of a great team. George has decided there's no room for those kind of guys because they're not big enough names.
As for the Jeter/Posada/Bernie/Mo home-grown talent argument, please. That's four players. They bought the other 21.
Nate Dogg: Name me the high-priced free agents the Red Sox had in 2004. They spent $57 million LESS than the Yankees. They signed Ortiz only because the Yankees didn't want him. The Red Sox had as many core players and many less free agents than the Yankees. Where did Varitek come from? Derek Lowe? Trot Nixon? Bronson Arroyo? Timlin and Wakefield were journeymen, not high-priced free agents. While the Red Sox signed Doug Mientiewicz, the Yankees signed Giambi, a former MVP. The Red Sox dealt for Mike Lowell, the Yamnkees sign A-Rod. Boston trades for Schilling, the Yankees give Carl Pavano $40 million. Boston won its title with guys like Kevin Millar and Bill Mueller, guys the Yankees would sneer at. You can argue the Red Sox overspend, and they do (the Dice-K signing is a colossal waste of money), but you can't compare the Yankees to any other team in ths history of sports in terms of wanting to put every other team in the sport out of business.
Quote from: ecompt on May 08, 2007, 10:08:48 AM
You can argue the Red Sox overspend, and they do (the Dice-K signing is a colossal waste of money), but you can't compare the Yankees to any other team in ths history of sports in terms of wanting to put every other team in the sport out of business.
If u think that is bad (debatable, I think given the dearth of pitching), imagine this...between Kei Igawa and Clemen$, the Yanks have spent $50M
for one spot in their starting rotation for this season alone
Quote from: ecompt on May 08, 2007, 09:57:12 AM
MUarmy: My point is that Detroit had its one surprising year, but can't compete over the long haul because Verlander, Bonderman and Zumaya will all be Yankees in a few years IF the Yankees want them. How you anyone think baseball is fair when Oakland produced Mulder, Hudson, Zito, Giambi and Tejada over the course of six years and lost them all? Have the Yankees EVER lost a player they wanted to keep? Hell, even when the Red Sox traded for A-Rod the players' union stepped in and said, "Nope. A-Rod has to be a Yankee." The reason they don't win now is they collect mercenaries with huge egos. There's no Paul O'Neill or Scott Brosius, the everyday guys who are the hearts and souls of a great team. George has decided there's no room for those kind of guys because they're not big enough names.
As for the Jeter/Posada/Bernie/Mo home-grown talent argument, please. That's four players. They bought the other 21.
Point taken, I'm just saying that some teams win by developing young talent and utilizing good coaching. See: Twins, Oakland, Braves, Indians, Brewers...so if you have a deep farm system and you can evaluate talent better than the overpaid yankees who cares if they steal your players away, chances are you've got guys lined up in AA or AAA to fill in for them. (As for surprise year for the Tigers I think they're doing pretty well this year, like 1/2 game out of first in the AL central, and the twins and oakland have consistently done well over the years)
True, MUarmy, the problem is that your farm system can be really deep but when you lose your best players it can take years to replace them. The A's, Twins and Tigers have done a great job stockpiling minor-league talent, but when Harden, Santana and Verlander leave, it's hard to replace them when you can't sign free agents. I know the Yankees are only playing the game that's on the table; I just the rules are skewed.
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on May 08, 2007, 09:42:06 AM
You said that people become Yankee fans with no attachment to the team? That happens to a lot of teams and if you ask me I think the Red Sox have much more of those fans.
The Red Sox are a cute story every freaking year because of that whole curse thing that yall believed in. And just like the cubs cute stories leads to a big fan base who aint from New England, and who have no connection to the team.
The Yankees are my third favorite team behind the White Sox and Brewers and I have no assocation with New York. In fact I think I became a fan because I was sick of hearing how "They just spend money to win" while for some reason people thought the Red Sox where just using home grown talent or something.
Speaking of Home Grown talent, some of the best Yankees during their championship run where homegrown talent
Jeter/Posada/Williams
Ask any real Red Sox fan and they would never EVER acknowledge that any curse exsisted. It was a stupid media story that had no meaning for us. Just shows you how little you know about the fan base. I will freely admit that there are bandwagon fans, no different than the Yankees. The difference is largely the amount and the arrogance that is involved.
Neither team truly uses homegrown talent. Pedro, Varitek, Lowe were all traded for. Yankees, especially lately have been all about spending money. When the Yanks were at their peak they were spending money but they were all so getting chemistry guys. Now they are just spending wildly no matter what, prime example being the antichrist, Clemens. The Red Sox are spending more than most teams but they are also not buying every possible free agent out there. They are still getting those chemistry guys much like how the yankees use to do it.
For the record New York has out spent the Red Sox every year since George took over, and by default more than anyone else.....how can you deny the "just spend money to win" scenario?
one more reason to hate the yankees.......Ma Pinstripe, Suzyn Waldman
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4uwwMXqRyEc
Yankee fans who don't know her would turn against the team in a heartbeat if they were forced to listen to her on a daily basis. Despicable butt-kisser who would defend bin Laden if the Yankees signed him.
I admit baseball's system is a little out of whack but I also think the quality of football in the NFL has suffered because of the system. Yes, it's more popular than ever and is the #1 sport by a long shot and you can go from worst to first in a hurry. However, when half the league is between 7-9 and 9-7 and you have mediocre teams like the Steelers win it two years ago or the Ravens or the Buccaneers I just think the quality of the football has suffered. Contant movement of players from year to year--I liked the days of the Cowboys vs 49ers every year with great players on both sides of the ball. Then the Packers gradually got better and overtook them. Yes, the Patriots have continued to thrive but I still think the best Patriots would have gotten killed by any of those Cowboy or 49er teams.
But that's whats so great about football. No longer are you destined to watch your team suck year after year because there's a dynasty in the league, rather you can hope for improvement and possibly vast improvement due to the salary cap and setup the NFL utilizes. This piqued interest in poor teams possibly putting it together the next year or year after keeps fans coming back whereas other teams in other leagues may loose interest after continuous failure...see KC Royals.
Quote from: mu03eng on May 08, 2007, 11:28:13 AM
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on May 08, 2007, 09:42:06 AM
You said that people become Yankee fans with no attachment to the team? That happens to a lot of teams and if you ask me I think the Red Sox have much more of those fans.
The Red Sox are a cute story every freaking year because of that whole curse thing that yall believed in. And just like the cubs cute stories leads to a big fan base who aint from New England, and who have no connection to the team.
The Yankees are my third favorite team behind the White Sox and Brewers and I have no assocation with New York. In fact I think I became a fan because I was sick of hearing how "They just spend money to win" while for some reason people thought the Red Sox where just using home grown talent or something.
Speaking of Home Grown talent, some of the best Yankees during their championship run where homegrown talent
Jeter/Posada/Williams
Ask any real Red Sox fan and they would never EVER acknowledge that any curse exsisted. It was a stupid media story that had no meaning for us. Just shows you how little you know about the fan base. I will freely admit that there are bandwagon fans, no different than the Yankees. The difference is largely the amount and the arrogance that is involved.
Neither team truly uses homegrown talent. Pedro, Varitek, Lowe were all traded for. Yankees, especially lately have been all about spending money. When the Yanks were at their peak they were spending money but they were all so getting chemistry guys. Now they are just spending wildly no matter what, prime example being the antichrist, Clemens. The Red Sox are spending more than most teams but they are also not buying every possible free agent out there. They are still getting those chemistry guys much like how the yankees use to do it.
For the record New York has out spent the Red Sox every year since George took over, and by default more than anyone else.....how can you deny the "just spend money to win" scenario?
Tells me everything I need to know about Red Sox fans.
I also love how the team blamed Buckner for losing the World Series in 1986
that is up their with Cubs Fan blaming Bartman
and guess what Hardcore cubs fans that I know still do blame Bartman!!! and Hardcore Red Sox fans I Know still blame Buckner
I just dont understand the two fan bases.
I can gurantee you that have the fan base will leave once Fenway and Wrigley are torn down like they should.
Quote from: ecompt on May 08, 2007, 07:33:46 AM
I'm not trying to sweep the Red Sox under the rug and I'm not defending what they've done. What I'm saying is that baseball's system is a joke. If the NFL did not have a salary cap, the Washington Redskins would have won the last 10 Super Bowls. Daniel Snyder woukld have an All-Pro at every position and a $3 billion payroll. Hockey and basketball finally wised up. Baseball never will. The Yankees are one of the big reasons people hate New Yorkers.
Boston's payroll was $25 million more than the next xlosest team in either league in 2004. And since the gap has only gotten wider.
At least be equal opportunity if in fact that is the point here. But I didn't see you mention the Red Sox as an example as well.
The Red Sox have been trying to buy titles, period. They outspend and overspend, and hope to do so making good choices, or good enough choices to win, period.
As long as we can all agree on that, I'd move on to another point on the topic or to another topic altogether.
QuoteI also love how the team blamed Buckner for losing the World Series in 1986
that is up their with Cubs Fan blaming Bartman
and guess what Hardcore cubs fans that I know still do blame Bartman!!! and Hardcore Red Sox fans I Know still blame Buckner
I just dont understand the two fan bases.
I can gurantee you that have the fan base will leave once Fenway and Wrigley are torn down like they should.
First of all no truely hardcore Cubs fan is going to blame Bartman. If anybodies fault it was Alex Gonzalez with his freaking error but thats besides the point. The Cubs still had 2 more games to get it done and did not take care of buisness. Secondly... are you kidding???? tear down Wrigley AND Fenway, that is fricking stupid... why would you tear down the two last old time stadiums (once Yankee Stadium is gone). These stadiums represent everything that is good and pure in baseball. Baseball is a game of longstanding tradition, tradition dating back to the late 1800's. Have you been to Wrigley or Fenway? It is an unreal feeling walking into either of those stadiums, just as it is walking into Yankee Stadium. Sure the amenitites at the new stadiums are nice but I would not trade the feeling of being at Wrigley, Fenway or Yankee stadium for all the new amenities in the world. Baseball was meant to be played outdoors at stadiums like Wrigley and Fenway.
Fenway has to be the worst. Their is nothing more fun than tiny concourses, looking having to turn your head 45 degrees to see a pitch, and leg room that even me at 5'3 feel claustrophobic.
Wrigley is a lot better than fenway, but if you dont have a good seat you have to watch the games on a television monitor, plus you can always be stuck behind a poll.
I am all for tradition and what not as i hate the DH, but keep the game traditional dont keep a stadium for the only reason of it being old!
Once again Nate, your facts are off. No true Red Sox fan blames Buckner. Yeah he booted the play but he never should have been in there in the first place. McNamara always lifted him in the late innings for Dave Stapleton which he didn't do in this case. Also even if Buckner gets the ball he might not get Mookie out because Mookie was just about the fastest guy in the league at the time.
Also that was Game 6. The Sox were up 3-0 in game 7 and blew it. Again the media blows the Buckner thing out of proportion. Just like Bucky F'in Dent in 78, Reggie Jackson's homerun in the 8th was what won the game not Dent.
Tearing down Fenway wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, however you would have to make the new Fenway something similiar. However, the stadium is not that bad and its worth it given the feeling being there. I'm 6'4" so I would think I have more to complain about. Plus the Monster seats and area are outstanding. I hate the Cubs but I couldn't imagine them tearing down Wrigley. I'm with Spartan, it would be freaking stupid.
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on May 09, 2007, 08:42:58 AM
Fenway has to be the worst. Their is nothing more fun than tiny concourses, looking having to turn your head 45 degrees to see a pitch, and leg room that even me at 5'3 feel claustrophobic.
Wrigley is a lot better than fenway, but if you dont have a good seat you have to watch the games on a television monitor, plus you can always be stuck behind a poll.
You need to get back to Fenway......the new ownership is doing a terific job with the park, creating new wide concourses on both baselines, adding the Monster seats and redoing everything underneath and around the OF seats. The new Tony C's corner just opened near the Bud Pavillion, and the EMC box is fab. The park turns 100 soon, and every year up to that you can expect to see more improvement.......rumor up here is that in the off-season leading into the 100th, the seats will be retrofitted and tilted towards the plate.
Great park.
I'm a fan of Wrigley, Fenway, and Yankee stadium. For many reasons. But I am not one who thinks those parks don't have shortcomings that need to be changed.
There is nothing wrong with renovation and keeping the location and other fell to the parks. Wrigley desperately needs grandstand and other renovations, ...bathrooms, etc...the positives outweigh the negatives, but changes need to be made.
Fenway has those new seats behind home plate upstairs for $150 a pop, 7 year minimum commitment. And sitting in the original seats for many games is challenging for anyone of average size or more.
Yankee Stadium has the auora, the history, the view etc...but doesn't have the Wrigley/Fenway sight lines....etc....or neighborhood of activity.
If you can improve but replicate good parks, nothing wrong with that...if you get it right.
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on May 07, 2007, 10:41:07 AM
Quote from: HansMoleman on May 07, 2007, 08:59:45 AM
Quote from: MUAlum99 on May 07, 2007, 08:50:53 AM
Quote from: HansMoleman on May 07, 2007, 08:44:23 AM
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on May 06, 2007, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on May 06, 2007, 03:08:17 PM
Yawn.......outside of the ESPN studios and NYC, no one cares.
I can't stand all the poser Yankee fans around the country, though. They make Cubs fans look intelligent.
lets not go that far... Cubs fans believe that a Billy Goat is not letting their team win the world series
Actually, true Cub fans don't believe that. We don't blame Steve Bartman either.
Went to the Brewers Pirates game on Thursday with a Cub hat on. Once it became apparent the Brew crew was going to lose, the entire section I was in began chanting "Cubbies suck". Now that's intelligent!
Why isn't that intelligent? The Cubs DO suck, and so do their fans. The fans in Milwaukee only speak the truth.
GO BREWERS.
Home from school today? First place in early May is making you delirious.
Because if the Cubs would have the best recrod in baseball you would keep your mouth shut... ::) ... please, we would be hearing ALL ABOUT IT from the "intelligent" fans...
what is intelligent is wearing a Cubs hat to a Brewer-Pirate game... sorry thats just bad on your part, I would have called you explicit words... one most likely starting with an A ;D
and why Brewer fans hate Cub fans... when in Millwer Park the Cub/Brewer rivalry (and no Im not mad that Cub fans spend money up here, keep it coming), but they absolutely trash the stadium.. my friend runs the bat stand in Miller Park (the Sawmill Slat stand), and he says every year every game multiple Cubs fans try to steal bats that they have out on display, every year, when that doesn't happen the rest of the year. Cub fans are classless, annoying, naive, and then try and drink with their Brewer fan friends, and struggle mightily! :) ... best record in baseball, try and knock us off our soapbox! We are ten games over .500 for the first time since 92, can't we have our moment, even if it is in May?
Well put McCheese, well put...I don't care where you are in the season, being 10 games over .500, especially in the beginning of May, is a pretty good reason to celebrate, especioall when it hasn't been done by your club in 15 years. I'm not making the brewers out to be the best team in the world but right now they are. If they can get through the rather difficult first half of May and are in a similar position, then by all means, this team has a legit shot at the playoffs and at a run in the playoffs.
Wrigley and Fenway aren't going anywhere. Improvements will continue. The Wrigley bleachers were redone that they are stellar.
If Chicago gets the Olympics, I would put money on the Cubs retrofitting the Olympic stadium to play baseball there for a year while the Wrigley grandstands are rebuilt/renovated.
Nothing wrong with a little excitement, especially when your team has been down for so long....but baseball is a 6 month grind. Can't get too high or low, especially 5 weeks into the season. If a team is in the race in July, or August 1st, excitement builds. Any talk more than just enjoying day to day early success or progress, is pretty premature for Brewer fans...even if they are desperate for some more competitive baseball. Winning baseball for several months, and in person NHL playoffs, are two of the most exciting things in sports. imo.
Quote from: marqptm on May 12, 2007, 10:22:13 AM
Wrigley and Fenway aren't going anywhere. Improvements will continue. The Wrigley bleachers were redone that they are stellar.
If Chicago gets the Olympics, I would put money on the Cubs retrofitting the Olympic stadium to play baseball there for a year while the Wrigley grandstands are rebuilt/renovated.
That wouldn't be a bad idea, but they have already said the Olympic Stadium will be torn down after the Olympics because it would be financed by future expected Olympic revenue and the IOC doesn't want cities to use Olympic revenue to finance permanent facilities. If you ask me, I think its pretty stupid to build a $300 million stadium and then tear it down; but obviously I'm not making those calls. Of course Chicago needs to get the bid first anyway.
Quote from: ecompt on May 08, 2007, 09:57:12 AM
As for the Jeter/Posada/Bernie/Mo home-grown talent argument, please. That's four players. They bought the other 21.
I know I'm getting in on this late, but three of those four home grown players (Jug Ears, Bernie and Mo) were signed by the Yankees as free agents, not drafted. Besides free agents, the Yankees spend more money on foreign born players not subject to the draft than anyone else. They use their money as a weapon in more than just the free agent arena.
The argument that some make that the Red Sox are just like the Yankees except less successful is wrong. The Red Sox have a budget (granted it is larger than everyone else's), but they spend more than everyone else for two reasons. The first is that they have to because unlike the Cubs or the Dodgers or somebody, they are in direct competition with the Yankees for the postseason. Two, because they can. They have as loyal a fan base as any team in any sport in the country and it spreads far into the six New England states. Boston itself is roughly the same population as Milwaukee ( little smaller, actually, I think). But if you ever go to Boston, you will be surprised at how prevalent the Red Sox logo is on people, buildings, shops, etc. Far, far, far more than I've seen for any other team in any other area.
is it wrong of me to hate the Red Sox more than the Yankees... heres why
Yankee fans know everyone hates them, and that they are the enemy due to their money spending, they accept it.
Red Sox fans feel they are completely different then the Yankees, but in reality, they are the EXACT same, if not worse. They spent more money to talk to Dice-K then the Brewers spend on their whole team in a year. Another reason why I hate the Red Sox more is due to their fans, who think they are the best in the world, when in reality 75% of Red Sox fans have no clue about baseball and just like them because its a trend.
Quotewhen in reality 75% of Red Sox fans have no clue about baseball and just like them because its a trend
That is a huge exageration. There is no way that 75% like them just becuase of the trend. That number is <5%. There will always be people jumping on the band wagon, I saw it happen with the Cubs, it is happening right now with Golden State. But there is no way that 75% of a teams fan base comes from that band wagon that is absurd.
Quote from: spartan3186 on May 14, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
Quotewhen in reality 75% of Red Sox fans have no clue about baseball and just like them because its a trend
That is a huge exageration. There is no way that 75% like them just becuase of the trend. That number is <5%. There will always be people jumping on the band wagon, I saw it happen with the Cubs, it is happening right now with Golden State. But there is no way that 75% of a teams fan base comes from that band wagon that is absurd.
Are you kidding me, going to school, I see more people with Red Sox hats then I could ever imagine my first three years. They wore it because everyone else did, where else would their tie to Boston be? Now the trend is the Brewers, which I am loving, but know that most of these fans are bandwagon jumpers.. In the fall the trend was the Chicago Bears. When you hear from multiple people that the Green Bay Packers are their favorite team, and the Chicago Bears are their second, I am sorry, that just is a lack of football knowledge.
Quote from: spartan3186 on May 14, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
Quotewhen in reality 75% of Red Sox fans have no clue about baseball and just like them because its a trend
That is a huge exageration. There is no way that 75% like them just becuase of the trend. That number is <5%. There will always be people jumping on the band wagon, I saw it happen with the Cubs, it is happening right now with Golden State. But there is no way that 75% of a teams fan base comes from that band wagon that is absurd.
well done, Sparty. BTW, I've noticed plenty of Cardinals caps out east this year too, not do mention Colts t-shirts. Darn bandwagoneers!
If folks wanna rip the Red Sox for spending a ton -- fine, that's fair game. But the B.S. about the fan base as clueless or late-comers is nuts. Their attendance swooned in the immediate post-Williams era but the Impossible Dream season of 1967 rallied the fan base for decades to come, http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/Red_Sox_Attendance_per_Season].
If anything, fans in Boston are too obsessed with their team -- many players (most recently David Wells) have said that the community doesnt let players breathe off the field .... the excessive scrutiny and focus for the 25 man roster is a challenge for many, and unlike any other city in MLB (good or bad -- bad in many cases).
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on May 14, 2007, 12:36:20 PM
Quote from: spartan3186 on May 14, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
Quotewhen in reality 75% of Red Sox fans have no clue about baseball and just like them because its a trend
That is a huge exageration. There is no way that 75% like them just becuase of the trend. That number is <5%. There will always be people jumping on the band wagon, I saw it happen with the Cubs, it is happening right now with Golden State. But there is no way that 75% of a teams fan base comes from that band wagon that is absurd.
Are you kidding me, going to school, I see more people with Red Sox hats then I could ever imagine my first three years. They wore it because everyone else did, where else would their tie to Boston be? Now the trend is the Brewers, which I am loving, but know that most of these fans are bandwagon jumpers.. In the fall the trend was the Chicago Bears. When you hear from multiple people that the Green Bay Packers are their favorite team, and the Chicago Bears are their second, I am sorry, that just is a lack of football knowledge.
So wait because you see a bunch of people in Wisconsin wearing Sox gear you assume they are just wearing it to be cool? You are saying that all these people have no reason to cheer for the Red Sox, couldn't be that they brought up that way or lived in Boston for a period of time or something like that? Basically, you are assuming you have no evidence that these people are band wagon jumpers.
Having said all that, I believe the more you move out of the Northeast the more you have bandwagon people than true fans, however I would argue that in total you have no more than 10% of the claimed fanbase being jumpers. The fanbase is so big though that the 10% seems like a lot of people. A lot of this disagreement is because of a media thing.....they like playing up all of these stereotypes and here in the midwest we don't see the fan base for what it really is.
Mayor we do agree on the lack of knowledge in some fans. I once dated a girl who claimed to love both the Yankees and the Red Sox......we broke up pretty soon after that confesion.
Quote from: NYWarrior on May 14, 2007, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: spartan3186 on May 14, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
Quotewhen in reality 75% of Red Sox fans have no clue about baseball and just like them because its a trend
That is a huge exageration. There is no way that 75% like them just becuase of the trend. That number is <5%. There will always be people jumping on the band wagon, I saw it happen with the Cubs, it is happening right now with Golden State. But there is no way that 75% of a teams fan base comes from that band wagon that is absurd.
well done, Sparty. BTW, I've noticed plenty of Cardinals caps out east this year too, not do mention Colts t-shirts. Darn bandwagoneers!
If folks wanna rip the Red Sox for spending a ton -- fine, that's fair game. But the B.S. about the fan base as clueless or late-comers is nuts. Their attendance swooned in the immediate post-Williams era but the Impossible Dream season of 1967 rallied the fan base for decades to come, http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/Red_Sox_Attendance_per_Season].
If anything, fans in Boston are too obsessed with their team -- many players (most recently David Wells) have said that the community doesnt let players breathe off the field .... the excessive scrutiny and focus for the 25 man roster is a challenge for many, and unlike any other city in MLB (good or bad -- bad in many cases).
If you ever want media attention play for the Red Sox, my god its insane. Its nice being a Saux fan in the midwest because I can get all the coverage I want of the team, but you get hacks like Dan Shannessy that develop a God complex because they cover the Red Sox every day. Just crazy how fanatical the whole state of Massachusetts is.
Quote from: CTWarrior on May 14, 2007, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: ecompt on May 08, 2007, 09:57:12 AM
As for the Jeter/Posada/Bernie/Mo home-grown talent argument, please. That's four players. They bought the other 21.
I know I'm getting in on this late, but three of those four home grown players (Jug Ears, Bernie and Mo) were signed by the Yankees as free agents, not drafted. Besides free agents, the Yankees spend more money on foreign born players not subject to the draft than anyone else. They use their money as a weapon in more than just the free agent arena.
The argument that some make that the Red Sox are just like the Yankees except less successful is wrong. The Red Sox have a budget (granted it is larger than everyone else's), but they spend more than everyone else for two reasons. The first is that they have to because unlike the Cubs or the Dodgers or somebody, they are in direct competition with the Yankees for the postseason. Two, because they can. They have as loyal a fan base as any team in any sport in the country and it spreads far into the six New England states. Boston itself is roughly the same population as Milwaukee ( little smaller, actually, I think). But if you ever go to Boston, you will be surprised at how prevalent the Red Sox logo is on people, buildings, shops, etc. Far, far, far more than I've seen for any other team in any other area.
The point made is that the Red Sox are similar to the Yankees because of their enormous payroll and win at all costs approach to the game. Nobody said they couldn't do it with their regional following and NESN network etc...and revenue. Sure they do it because they can....which makes them very similar to the Yankees. The Red Sox simply do not win as much as the Yankees. Do they spend the same as NY? No, is it huge money? Yes. Way more than the rest of baseball? Yes. Should they win a lot more than they do? Yes.
There are good and bad fans everywhere, but this is not the first time nor last I will come across someone saying that the Red Sox are this little engine that could that has to compete with the big bad Yankees. Boston itself, is approx 10th largest market in country. Combine that with all of the other states and parts of that region that don't have other teams to root for, and the tv revenue,.....the downplaying of Red Sox revenue and market size is laughable.
Hey, Red Sox, knock yourselves out, well within the rules, etc...doesn't bother me one bit. However let's at least put the accurate cards on the table. Boston is a heck of a lot closer to NY than the rest of MLB. Not even close.
Yes I'll take a seat behind home plate upper tier please. Ok sir that will be season tickets requirement, $150 a pop, two minimum, with a minimum of 7 year commitment. The Little Engine that could.
BigSky, you have to look at it from the perspective of who started it. The Yankees fueled this whole thing when Steinbrenner took over and started increasing payroll. Take a look at the AL East in general, with the exception of the Devil Rays Every team in the AL East out spends the rest of the league especially the NL. Its because they have to. The Yankees have set the bar, and the Sox spend because they have to to be competitive. I guarentte you, if the Yankees had a more reasonable payroll so would the Sox. It just doesn't make sense to spend that much money if you don't have to to remain competitive.
Lets face it, things like what is happening with the Brewers only happens once every couple of years. In the economics of baseball right now, when players get good they leave for the money. It takes an incredible amount of luck and timing to have several key players together and young when they hit their stride. Once these players become known and their first contract is up they are gone for where the money is more. Just the way baseball without a salary cap works.
The Red Sox do not thave to spend anywhere near what they spend to be competetive. Those poor little Red Sox. We should pass the hat for them. Many teams of small and medium markets compete and make the playoffs.(The playoffs are short 7 and 5 game crapshoots depending on many factors.) and some on a regular basis(Oakland, St. Louis and others etc...) They just work a bit smarter.
The Red Sox are a big market, high revenue big spending team, where results are expected annually.
Sure it always helps to have a lot of money to spend or even the most money to spend, but it doesn't guarantee success and certainly obviously doesn't guarantee more success than other less spending teams. Built in advantage, sure out of the gate? yes.
The Red Sox do not have to spend in the quantities they do, to be competitive. That is absurd. The Cardinals win their division almost every year the past 10 years, won 100 games plus in each of the two years before winning last year's World Series. Oakland is a regular 21st Century playoff participant, as is Minnesota. And so on....
Those poor little Red Sox. The Yankees also picked up Carl Pavano, and several other busts too. Should the Red Sox do it too and say well the Yankees did it and we have to do everything the Yankees do?
Who's in for $20? Let's get that hat passed. Don't know how I am going to sleep tonight worried about those little Red Sox. I hope the organization can stay afloat and the players have enough to eat. It's a miracle they can be competetive in today's game. Nothing short of a miracle.
You miss the point. The teams you sight, like Oakland and Minnesota spend with 5% of the teams also in their division. In baseball because their is only one wildcard berth to go around you focus on winning the division. You also play the majority of your games within the division. Unlike football where you could go 10-6 and lose all of your division games, baseball requires that you win a significant number of division games to compete. Oakland doesn't have to spend a boat load of money because none of the teams in their division do. Same goes with every other division in baseball but the AL East.
Fine if the Red Sox spent what the A's spend, then the Red Sox are going to be competing for the wild card only. Thats fine, but you are now competing with 6 or 7 teams, not just 4. Its a fact of life, the teams in the AL East have to keep up with the Yankees in spending to compete with them otherwise its the wildcard only.
And frankly, I'm not complaining that they spend that much. They put a team on the field that wins. However, if you saw the Yankees spending in the same ball park as other teams I am certain all of the other AL East teams would follow suit because there is no reason not to. Lower payroll means higher profit. As you pointed out the Red Sox are a high revenue team, thats not going to change based on the cost of payroll its going to change based on results. If they could win with a $60 million payroll they would as the profit margin would go through the roof, but you can't when the Yankees can amass the kind of talent they do at almost $200 million in payroll.
Big Sky:
You're missing the point. The Red Sox spend because they're in the same division as the Yankees. If they didn't, the Yankees would simply bury them. Who are the free-agent All-Stars the Red Sox simply went out and bought? The Yankees go out and buy two EVERY year. Giambi? BOUGHT. A-Rod was BOUGHT by trading Soriano, who was BOUGHT. Matsui? Damon? Mussina? Clemens? Abreu? Farnsworth? It's a joke. If the Red Sox were in any other division they wouldn't spend as much; they're only spending because they have to or they would be steamrolled. As for passing the hat, maybe they should do for the Yankees, who went five years without paying the city rent on the stadium, now are asking to city to fork over half-a-billion to help them build their ballpark. The Yanks will choke again in the first round of the playoffs (if they make it), then go out and add another $25 million to the payroll.
Again...overpaying for players....some might call it the Darren Dreifort effect, or Chan Ho Park or Pavano or insert player here to illustrate the point....doesn't guarantee success. For every Alfonso Soriano there are many other Gary Matthews Jr's out there.
There is also the wild card (unfortunately). And the Red Sox spend more than the rest of the league not named the Yankees, so they actually get a second chance annually with a big spending advantage over the rest of the league. Using your logic, the Red Sox can just mop up on Toronto, Tampa, Baltimore, and the rest of the American League and win division or coast into wild card, ...again, making my point. With the huge spending discrepancies thatshouldn't be too tough. But we all know just because a team doesn't win with a certain payroll doesn't mean the resons for not winning were 100% money, as you implied in your post.
Now the poor little Red Sox have to compete with a few more teams for the wild card. Oh the humanity.
It's a fact of life the Red Sox are a lot closer to the Yankees than any other team in either league.
Quote from: ecompt on May 14, 2007, 04:20:27 PM
Big Sky:
You're missing the point. The Red Sox spend because they're in the same division as the Yankees. If they didn't, the Yankees would simply bury them. Who are the free-agent All-Stars the Red Sox simply went out and bought? The Yankees go out and buy two EVERY year. Giambi? BOUGHT. A-Rod was BOUGHT by trading Soriano, who was BOUGHT. Matsui? Damon? Mussina? Clemens? Abreu? Farnsworth? It's a joke. If the Red Sox were in any other division they wouldn't spend as much; they're only spending because they have to or they would be steamrolled. As for passing the hat, maybe they should do for the Yankees, who went five years without paying the city rent on the stadium, now are asking to city to fork over half-a-billion to help them build their ballpark. The Yanks will choke again in the first round of the playoffs (if they make it), then go out and add another $25 million to the payroll.
The Red Sox have eithe roverpaid for Free Agents or re0signed people at overpaying prices. Off of the top of my the past couple of years.....Matt Clement, David Wells, JD drew, Dice K, Julio Lugo, Jason Varitek, ...all over paid by a lot,....as is Ramirez, and several other players.
Who do the Red Sox go out and buy? lol. You are kidding right? Nothing wrong with it, well within the rules. But at least admit it.
Based on that theory (overpaying for your own), the Yankees have done that with their entire roster. You can argue all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the Yankees will spend $80 million MORE than the Red Sox this season. How many teams even have $80 million payrolls? And again, name me the last high-priced major-league-veteran free agent the Red Sox signed. They only signed Ortiz after the Yankees told Papi's agent they weren't interested. The Yankees are the reason most people hate New Yorkers. Arrogant, rude, get out of my way, nothing's ever good enough...etc. Most New Yorkers aren't like that, but the Yankees' image as bullies is overwhelming. My favorite day of every baseball season is when some team with one-third of their payroll kicks their asses in the playoffs. Luckily, since 2001 it happens every year.
Quote from: ecompt on May 14, 2007, 05:51:53 PM
Based on that theory (overpaying for your own), the Yankees have done that with their entire roster. You can argue all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the Yankees will spend $80 million MORE than the Red Sox this season. How many teams even have $80 million payrolls? And again, name me the last high-priced major-league-veteran free agent the Red Sox signed. They only signed Ortiz after the Yankees told Papi's agent they weren't interested. The Yankees are the reason most people hate New Yorkers. Arrogant, rude, get out of my way, nothing's ever good enough...etc. Most New Yorkers aren't like that, but the Yankees' image as bullies is overwhelming. My favorite day of every baseball season is when some team with one-third of their payroll kicks their asses in the playoffs. Luckily, since 2001 it happens every year.
This is about the Red Sox and the rest of the league, because the Red Sox are more similar to the Yankees than the rest of baseball. Talk about the Yankees all you want, and the red Sox will be and should be in the same spending breath. People who hate New Yorkers never lived there. In my life expereinces extensively in NYC, Boston and Milwaukee, NYC had easily the the friendliest of the three cities that I lived in and spent considerable time in.... As many Boston natives will tell you, they think have the whiniest fans in all of baseball. There are good and bad fans everywhere and good and bad people everywhere. The NYC stereotype is laughable at best.
The point remains that Boston is nowhere near the rest of baseball in spending. Nowhere near. It remains silly to root against the Yankees for only purposes of spending etc...and not do the same with Boston. Silly. And I already gave you a top of head list of many highly overpriced free agents signed by Boston within past couple of year. Do I even need to add more than that?
I think the key words in your argument are "nowhere near." There are six teams within $37 million on the Red Sox in 2007 payrolls. The fifth and sixth of those teams, the Dodgers and Mariners, combined do not equal what the Yankees pay. And then there's 23 teams below them. There is no one within $68 million of the Yankees; in fact, other than the Red Sox, there is no one within $95 million of the Yanks.
You can talk about the Yankees all day long, but to single them out as the only big spenders is not accurate. You never compare the Red Sox to the rest of baseball. You only compare them with the Yankees, ...which is what Red Sox fans do. ...a little too much. And then proceed to compare the Yankees with the rest of baseball, but not compare the Red Sox with the rest of baseball.
Quote from: jmayer1 on May 14, 2007, 12:33:06 AM
Quote from: marqptm on May 12, 2007, 10:22:13 AM
Wrigley and Fenway aren't going anywhere. Improvements will continue. The Wrigley bleachers were redone that they are stellar.
If Chicago gets the Olympics, I would put money on the Cubs retrofitting the Olympic stadium to play baseball there for a year while the Wrigley grandstands are rebuilt/renovated.
That wouldn't be a bad idea, but they have already said the Olympic Stadium will be torn down after the Olympics because it would be financed by future expected Olympic revenue and the IOC doesn't want cities to use Olympic revenue to finance permanent facilities. If you ask me, I think its pretty stupid to build a $300 million stadium and then tear it down; but obviously I'm not making those calls. Of course Chicago needs to get the bid first anyway.
I thought that it was going to be decreased in size since there was no need for an olympic size stadium and that it would be used for concerts and such since the stadium's grandstands will just be temporary.