From other board and MU show last night,
Buzz On Chris:
Waiting for the swelling in his knee to subside and trying to increase the strength back to the level that it was and then hopefully a week or two after Christmas be able to make a decision to determine where he is at and if he can play the rest of the year or what we need to do at that point. Both Chris and Juan are in rehab twice a day.
"waiting for the swelling to subside...will decide at that time...
It would be great to have him back...for BE...but if he plays and needs surgery next yr...he will miss all of next yr..."
This is interesting if he needs another medical redshirt. Buzz likes to recruit hard and he will have no scholarships left for 2013 if Chris gets his 6th year.
I am sure he will oversign, needs a point guard. I do see Vander playing more in that position going forward.
I believe this exonerates Dr. Dunkenstein who has been attacked repeatedly on this board by "new" posters. DD has not claimed any insider knowledge, but felt that commonsense would dictate in this situation that MU didn't have a definitive diagnosis on CO's knee due to swelling.
This board has become a vehicle for people to attack any and all with little or no recourse.
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 14, 2011, 09:11:24 AM
I believe this exonerates Dr. Dunkenstein who has been attacked repeatedly on this board by "new" posters. DD has not claimed any insider knowledge, but felt that commonsense would dictate in this situation that MU didn't have a definitive diagnosis on CO's knee due to swelling.
This board has become a vehicle for people to attack any and all with little or no recourse.
I think everyone agreed that there was no diagnosis yet because the swelling hadn't subsided. Taking 1 or 2 poster's opinions and label the entire board makes you one of the people using muscoop to "attack any and all with little or no recourse."
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 14, 2011, 09:11:24 AM
I believe this exonerates Dr. Dunkenstein who has been attacked repeatedly on this board by "new" posters. DD has not claimed any insider knowledge, but felt that commonsense would dictate in this situation that MU didn't have a definitive diagnosis on CO's knee due to swelling.
This board has become a vehicle for people to attack any and all with little or no recourse.
Including those who take the comments of a few and attack the entire board! :-\
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 14, 2011, 09:11:24 AM
This board has become a vehicle for people to attack any and all with little or no recourse.
If I could drive this board to work, I would.
A-holes.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 14, 2011, 09:10:55 AM
This is interesting if he needs another medical redshirt. Buzz likes to recruit hard and he will have no scholarships left for 2013 if Chris gets his 6th year.
I am sure he will oversign, needs a point guard. I do see Vander playing more in that position going forward.
I am wiling to make a very sizeable wager that Buzz does not sign a PG with the 2013 scholarship if it is available. The way our roster sits we dont need one. Heck Vnader has been our best point season to date. Staff has on numerous occasions said they want to fill the spot with a shooter...see kendrick Nunn.
Quote from: lessthannick11 on December 14, 2011, 09:04:34 AM
From other board and MU show last night,
Buzz On Chris:
Waiting for the swelling in his knee to subside and trying to increase the strength back to the level that it was and then hopefully a week or two after Christmas be able to make a decision to determine where he is at and if he can play the rest of the year or what we need to do at that point. Both Chris and Juan are in rehab twice a day.
"waiting for the swelling to subside...will decide at that time...
It would be great to have him back...for BE...but if he plays and needs surgery next yr...he will miss all of next yr..."
disagree the recover time on ACLs has been shortened over the years ... he could have surgery after the year and still be back
If he has surgery in March, he would likely be ready by boot camp. If not, he could be ready by the time BE season rolls around for sure.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on December 14, 2011, 11:01:53 AM
disagree the recover time on ACLs has been shortened over the years ... he could have surgery after the year and still be back
It is amazing to me how much medicine progresses. It was not that long ago (o k, to some it was long ago) that the two injuries which were career threatening, if not ending, were a torn ACL and Tommy John surgery. Now, it is not just they can return, but how quickly they can return.
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 14, 2011, 09:11:24 AM
I believe this exonerates Dr. Dunkenstein who has been attacked repeatedly on this board by "new" posters. DD has not claimed any insider knowledge, but felt that commonsense would dictate in this situation that MU didn't have a definitive diagnosis on CO's knee due to swelling.
This board has become a vehicle for people to attack any and all with little or no recourse.
I did not recall the attacks on Dr. Dunkenstein, so I went to go look at his body of work. All fifteen posts. He had two posts on the subject of Otule. There was one very aggressive response in that thread from someone that has one post, but I cannot conclude it was a direct response to Dunkenstein (post hoc fallacy). In fact, I can find zero direct attacks from this subject. Furthermore, I fail to see where Dr. Dunkenstein has provided any significant contributions to the topic, other than his entirely valid and reasonable opinion.
You have taken something that did not happen and used it to provide a broad indictment of an entire group.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on December 14, 2011, 11:00:39 AM
I am wiling to make a very sizeable wager that Buzz does not sign a PG with the 2013 scholarship if it is available. The way our roster sits we dont need one. Heck Vnader has been our best point season to date. Staff has on numerous occasions said they want to fill the spot with a shooter...see kendrick Nunn.
Point guard is the most important position in college. How good would MU be with Tayshon Taylor right now? Derrick Wilson has shown zero offensive ability right now,
secondly Deonte Burton is a slasher, two guard. Not even sure where Jamel Ferguson plays but at 6'4" I would assume he is a two guard as well. The last schooly will
go to a pt. or a big.
Quote from: MUMac on December 14, 2011, 11:14:16 AM
It is amazing to me how much medicine progresses. It was not that long ago (o k, to some it was long ago) that the two injuries which were career threatening, if not ending, were a torn ACL and Tommy John surgery. Now, it is not just they can return, but how quickly they can return.
And in the case of Tommy John, some come back better. Something like half of the pitchers in the all star game last year had tommy john surgery at some point.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 14, 2011, 11:09:02 AM
If he has surgery in March, he would likely be ready by boot camp. If not, he could be ready by the time BE season rolls around for sure.
He may be physically cleared to play but he will not be ready to play at a high level if the surgery is in March(hopefully April if you know what I'm sayin' 8-) ). If he has an autograft typically they are cleared to return to full activity 6-7 months after the injury. However, most research indicates it is a full year before they are performing at peak performance. There is a lot of psychological(confidence in the knee) activities that go on, plus you can't even get into cutting and pivoting for at least 4 months after the surgery so even if its mid-March surgery he isn't STARTING to pivot and cut until mid-July. Additionally, if he does go autograft he won't gain full range of motion for at least a month, maybe two after the surgery so his fitness will have deteriorated significantly.
So the bottom line is, yes he would be physically cleared to play, but what kind of season would he actually have? I think the choice is he plays this year at the expense of next year or he plays at full strength next year.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 14, 2011, 11:15:33 AM
I did not recall the attacks on Dr. Dunkenstein, so I went to go look at his body of work. All fifteen posts. He had two posts on the subject of Otule. There was one very aggressive response in that thread from someone that has one post, but I cannot conclude it was a direct response to Dunkenstein (post hoc fallacy). In fact, I can find zero direct attacks from this subject. Furthermore, I fail to see where Dr. Dunkenstein has provided any significant contributions to the topic, other than his entirely valid and reasonable opinion.
You have taken something that did not happen and used it to provide a broad indictment of an entire group.
Just like HITLER!!!
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 14, 2011, 11:26:47 AM
Point guard is the most important position in college. How good would MU be with Tayshon Taylor right now? Derrick Wilson has shown zero offensive ability right now,
secondly Deonte Burton is a slasher, two guard. Not even sure where Jamel Ferguson plays but at 6'4" I would assume he is a two guard as well. The last schooly will
go to a pt. or a big.
You are forgetting T J Taylor - a combo guard.
I think Buzz clearly is looking for a PG in 2013. Duane Wilson is someone that the coaching staff seems to be eyeing up regularly in the last couple months. Buzz was watching Dominican last night.
Quote from: MUMac on December 14, 2011, 11:41:31 AM
You are forgetting T J Taylor - a combo guard.
But again, that's not how Buzz seems to see him based on his comments.
I have a question for those of you who have had an ACL injury.
How much does a knee brace support the knee? Does it give enough support to function close to normal?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 14, 2011, 11:51:00 AM
I have a question for those of you who have had an ACL injury.
How much does a knee brace support the knee? Does it give enough support to function close to normal?
I have a friend that tore his ACL a couple years ago but has not had the surgery. With rehab, he is able to do pretty much everything without a brace. He wears a brace to play bball and golf. He knows that one slip or wrong move could cause more damage though.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 14, 2011, 11:51:00 AM
I have a question for those of you who have had an ACL injury.
How much does a knee brace support the knee? Does it give enough support to function close to normal?
No the knee brace won't give it enough stability to play D1 sports. If fact a fair number of surgeons don't even give players braces anymore. Plus the brace would limit his lateral movement so it would be a question of how effective would he be. This is all predicated on it being a complete tear of the ACL. We're talking a much less difficult issue if its something like a meniscus tear.
I would actually at this point lean towards a meniscus tear. If they are waiting to make a decision its not a complete ACL tear and they'd know that by now. And with a meniscus you can surgically remove the bad part and be back in a month or so, or you can try and rehab and get back sooner, but not be as effective
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 14, 2011, 11:26:47 AM
Point guard is the most important position in college. How good would MU be with Tayshon Taylor right now? Derrick Wilson has shown zero offensive ability right now,
secondly Deonte Burton is a slasher, two guard. Not even sure where Jamel Ferguson plays but at 6'4" I would assume he is a two guard as well. The last schooly will
go to a pt. or a big.
TTaylor is having (or has just had ) knee surgery, too, so it is unlikely we would be better than undefeated at the moment.
Quote from: tower912 on December 14, 2011, 12:04:12 PM
TTaylor is having (or has just had ) knee surgery, too, so it is unlikely we would be better than undefeated at the moment.
Seriously, do you think Cadougan is as good as Taylor, as they say, "Come on Man"!!
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 14, 2011, 12:25:28 PM
Seriously, do you think Cadougan is as good as Taylor, as they say, "Come on Man"!!
Reading. Is. Fundamental.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 14, 2011, 11:26:47 AM
Point guard is the most important position in college. How good would MU be with Tayshon Taylor right now? Derrick Wilson has shown zero offensive ability right now,
secondly Deonte Burton is a slasher, two guard. Not even sure where Jamel Ferguson plays but at 6'4" I would assume he is a two guard as well. The last schooly will
go to a pt. or a big.
We know for a fact he wouldn't have been in a fight with MU's football team if he came here.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on December 14, 2011, 12:34:15 PM
We know for a fact he wouldn't have been in a fight with MU's football team if he came here.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Point%20Plankn
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 14, 2011, 12:25:28 PM
Seriously, do you think Cadougan is as good as Taylor, as they say, "Come on Man"!!
Honestly, I rather have Junior. Taylor is a turnover machine. He's average 4.3 turnovers a game and currently has an A/TO rate of 1.09 to 1. For your starting point guard, that's horrible.
Although I think Junior needs to be more aggressive offensively, I'll take his play at the point (A/TO of 2.6 to 1) over Taylor's. In addition, Taylor plays with Thomas Robinson who's simply a beast on the block. Therefore, I'm even more surprised at how low his overall assist numbers are.
I've seen Kansas play a couple of times on TV & Tyshawn Taylor is not fit for that position. TO machine, bad shot selection, you name it. I would take any guard on our roster over him. :'(
Can someone summarize what Chris currently has left for eligibility and how the different options could play out in regards to eligibility. Looking at the scholarship table, I'm not sure I'm understanding the options he has...especially pertaining to how many years you're allowed to redshirt, etc. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 14, 2011, 01:49:06 PM
Can someone summarize what Chris currently has left for eligibility and how the different options could play out in regards to eligibility. Looking at the scholarship table, I'm not sure I'm understanding the options he has...especially pertaining to how many years you're allowed to redshirt, etc. Thanks in advance.
He meets the qualifications for a "medical redshirt" and a sixth season IF he has a season-ending injury. However, it is not a guaranty that he would be granted one and he cannot even apply until his eligibility has run out.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 14, 2011, 11:51:00 AM
I have a question for those of you who have had an ACL injury.
How much does a knee brace support the knee? Does it give enough support to function close to normal?
I tore my right ACL playing football when I was 14. I was too young to have the surgery. We decided to strengthen and brace it. I tweaked it further in basketball that year and ended up having my meniscus cleaned up.
The knee was fine (still braced) until I was a sophomore in high school. I had someone blocked into the side of my knee and it (and the brace) collapsed. Needless to say, it was then reconstructed.
I tore my left ACL three years ago when I was 29 playing flag football. It's never been braced. I actually feel like I've bounced back quicker and am more confident than I was with the brace.
***OOPS***
I forgot to mention that my second ACL was reconstructed too! Haha, sorry about that. It was never braced though.
Some people can absolutely come back without an ACL, but it would require extensive therapy and retraining of the muscles to strengthen them to compensate. I'm no doctor, but I would be wildly surprised if it is an ACL tear if they went down the no surgery path and I would be even more surprised if Otule could compete well at all especially this year but even next year.
Quote from: KC2016 on December 14, 2011, 01:43:03 PM
I've seen Kansas play a couple of times on TV & Tyshawn Taylor is not fit for that position. TO machine, bad shot selection, you name it. I would take any guard on our roster over him. :'(
Tyshawn seems to have regressed, and this is, admittedly, anecdotal. Data could prove me wrong.
I tore my ACL in half in 1988. Being a weekend athlete at 27, facing either a year of rehab after surgery to repair the ACL or 6 weeks of therapy after surgery just to clean it up, I opted for the therapy and had it cleaned up. I have to wear a knee brace if I want to play basketball or racquetball and don't have any issues with it. However, talking to my orthopod now, he said the standard of care is to ALWAYS repair it now v. back then I was given the option.
"Aaron Rodgers played with a partially torn ACL for four years before secretly having reconstructive surgery following his sophomore season at Cal."
Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/01/cutler-s-toughness-not-legends#ixzz1gXtv7r6J
Maybe Chris "only" has a partial tear, too.
Partial meniscus tear would make sense for evaluating options because some tears can be repaired. If it is an option, repair would definitely be the best medical choice for Chris because even if it failed they could go ahead and cut out the damaged section anyway.
I had a torn meniscus and I have a physical job. I was out for only 10 days. If that's what Otule has I would guess he'd be back in 3-4 weeks after the surgery.
Quote from: Boone on December 14, 2011, 03:14:22 PM
"Aaron Rodgers played with a partially torn ACL for four years before secretly having reconstructive surgery following his sophomore season at Cal."
Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/01/cutler-s-toughness-not-legends#ixzz1gXtv7r6J
Maybe Chris "only" has a partial tear, too.
Yeah but, can Chris throw the "out" pattern?
Many people have played at the highest level of sports with out ACL's
Dejuan Blair doesn't have either ACL and functions perfectly fine. Elway didn't have an ACL in one of his knees either.
As for recovery time obviously 6 months has been the benchmark for return to activity but again there have been athletes that were able to recover in 4 months or less. Bracing it for the time being and having the reconstruction at the end of march isn't out of the question.
Quote from: syscokid on December 14, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
I had a torn meniscus and I have a physical job. I was out for only 10 days. If that's what Otule has I would guess he'd be back in 3-4 weeks after the surgery.
Buzz has already anounced Chris has an "ACL injury".
I'll go with a partial tear of the ACL, as I have no reason not to take Buzz at his word.
Junior is a work in process, hopefully I will be wrong. When it comes to ball rolling, Self, Williams are at the top. Tayshon needed coaching, not sure either of them know how
to do that. Give Brad Stevens, Bo Ryan, even Buzz (not sold yet, but close) Taylor in his senior year and I believe he has the God given talent to be an All-American. I am sure
even I in my old age good recruit at those schools. Self and Williams get more All-Americans than Buzz might get in his career. But the kids Buzz get, seem to come out the better.
More kids should buy into what Buzz has done. Mathews is the highest paid third year player in the league. Two years ago did anybody think Jimmy Butler was going to be a first
round NBA player, throw in Lazar and that is three kids that were coached up. Wisconsin almost beat NC this year. After watching them last night in person, I can not believe UW can
win at most 1 or 2 games on the road in the Big Ten.. With this talent, Bo will have to do wonders. Williams would not even know what to do? Beat the Badgers by 3 with, what 7 or 8
Mcdonalds All-Americans, now that is coaching. Gets creamed by Vegas. Taylor made a big mistake. He has the talent to be a pro, but I agree I am not sure he will be one. Natural
talent vs. Cadougans talent, not even close.
Except wasn't cadougan ranked higher coming out of high school? I know it was different classes, but i think taylor was in the 90's while cadougan was in the 60's. Unless you're just trying to say that taylor is more athletic than junior.
That is what I am saying. Quicker, faster, better athlete!
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on December 15, 2011, 08:10:27 AM
Except wasn't cadougan ranked higher coming out of high school? I know it was different classes, but i think taylor was in the 90's while cadougan was in the 60's. Unless you're just trying to say that taylor is more athletic than junior.
Rivals had TT at 77 and JC at 74...
Gotcha. Scout had Taylor at 83 and Cadougan at 54, so i wasn't too far off.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 15, 2011, 08:38:02 AM
That is what I am saying. Quicker, faster, better athlete!
OK. I would say that natural talent and natural athleticism are two different things, but we'd just be arguing semantics at that point. I understand your point.
Quote from: ringout on December 14, 2011, 02:29:45 PM
Tyshawn seems to have regressed, and this is, admittedly, anecdotal. Data could prove me wrong.
Taylor went for 9 points, 13 assists, 7 turnovers playing on a torn MCL in the win over Ohio State.
It's easy to see why opinion is so divided on his impact.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 15, 2011, 10:18:24 AM
Taylor went for 9 points, 13 assists, 7 turnovers playing on a torn MCL in the win over Ohio State.
It's easy to see why opinion is so divided on his impact.
Again, it shows the inability of Bill Self to coach. Either Taylor should be benched with 7 turnovers but they really do not have a back up point guard this
year so they are in a bad situation. Do you really think Buzz or Bo would stand for that? 13 assists just shows you what this kid can do, has a nice stroke
as well, and great hops, just needed to be coached up, Bill Self no chance. I really believe this kid made a mistake on the school he picked.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 15, 2011, 10:18:24 AM
Taylor went for 9 points, 13 assists, 7 turnovers playing on a torn MCL in the win over Ohio State.
It's easy to see why opinion is so divided on his impact.
To me, I wanted Taylor to be here. Did not like how it all shook down, but I don't fault the kid at all. But, since he is not here, I do not pay any attention to he or his play. Watched him a couple of times, but happy with who we have, because they want to be here. Other than what I read on this board, he is completely out of sight to me. That same applied to Mbakwe and others that left.
Quote from: MUMac on December 15, 2011, 10:38:43 AM
To me, I wanted Taylor to be here. Did not like how it all shook down, but I don't fault the kid at all. But, since he is not here, I do not pay any attention to he or his play. Watched him a couple of times, but happy with who we have, because they want to be here. Other than what I read on this board, he is completely out of sight to me. That same applied to Mbakwe and others that left.
Something to discuss on a slow period!
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 15, 2011, 10:28:46 AM
Again, it shows the inability of Bill Self to coach. Either Taylor should be benched with 7 turnovers but they really do not have a back up point guard this
year so they are in a bad situation. Do you really think Buzz or Bo would stand for that? 13 assists just shows you what this kid can do, has a nice stroke
as well, and great hops, just needed to be coached up, Bill Self no chance. I really believe this kid made a mistake on the school he picked.
Taylor's ranking out of high school is somewhat deceptive - he charged from outside the top 100 his senior year. He (and his high school coach) became enamored with the opportunity to play at his "dream school" and Buzz was an unknown.
Things have changed. Buzz has put 2 guys (3 if you count Wesley) into the NBA who weren't wanted by the KU's or UNC's of the world. Anybody really think Lazar or JFB see the NBA (or even much court time) if they somehow ended up in Lawrence or Chapel Hill?
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 14, 2011, 11:15:33 AM
I did not recall the attacks on Dr. Dunkenstein, so I went to go look at his body of work. All fifteen posts. He had two posts on the subject of Otule. There was one very aggressive response in that thread from someone that has one post, but I cannot conclude it was a direct response to Dunkenstein (post hoc fallacy). In fact, I can find zero direct attacks from this subject. Furthermore, I fail to see where Dr. Dunkenstein has provided any significant contributions to the topic, other than his entirely valid and reasonable opinion.
You have taken something that did not happen and used it to provide a broad indictment of an entire group.
Wow, must have lots of time on your hands to go back and research someone's posts!
Quote from: only a warrior on December 16, 2011, 01:58:41 PM
Wow, must have lots of time on your hands to go back and research someone's posts!
Perhaps you missed that there were only 15 posts to research, and only two of those he could possibly have been attacked for on this subject :) I think It took me longer to repond to this that that research would have taken!
"so I went to go look at his body of work. All fifteen posts. He had two posts on the subject of Otule"
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 16, 2011, 02:24:28 PM
Perhaps you missed that there were only 15 posts to research, and only two of those he could possibly have been attacked for on this subject :) I think It took me longer to repond to this that that research would have taken!
"so I went to go look at his body of work. All fifteen posts. He had two posts on the subject of Otule"
Wow, must have lots of time on your hands to go back and research someone's posts and rebut someone's claim that you have a lot of time on your hands.