Great game one win, really fun to watch when this team is clicking.
Am I the only one sick of Paul Pierce?
Is this team really playing good team basketball yet? I mean time after time I see Wade Bosh and James (especially) go one on one and throw up a shot. Its hard to root for the Heat now with LeBron in south beach. Let's go Blazers, San Antonio, Twolves!!
You can put 60 points on the board for James/Wade every game. But are you going to get 25 from James Jones again?
Celtics will make shots next game. The Heat also got all the calls, too, which won't continue. This is going to be a long series but an exciting one.
And to the first post, yes, I am also sick of Paul Pierce. IMO, he was never that great anyway. Not a great way for a veteran to handle himself.
Never liked pierce, but I'm going to have to root against the Heat. Sorry Dwyane. With that said, pulling for either the Hawks, Thunder or Grizz even though it's unlikely.
The Celtics, in particular Garnett and then Pierce are probably the biggest trash talkers in NBA.
Unless Bosh also steps up, this series will likely go 7.
Hate Paul Pierce and his gross beard thingy or whatever he has going on there. Will disagree with Hoops though, I am sick of the NBA allowing refs to change games by calling technical fouls for everything and kicking players out of the game. That last tech on Pierce was completely pointless to call.
However, I do root for the Heat.
I root 4 anybody playing the Celtics. Pierce is an irritant but that last foul was bogus.
I'm rooting for the Lakers and Memphis
Does the NBA still exist? If so, why?
I love Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo. I love watching Rondo play. I hate Kevin Garnett. I don't mind Pierce. Maybe I don't pay close enough attention, or maybe Garnett just talks THAT much trash that Pierce's doesn't stand out to me, but I really don't think he talks that much trash. I have to say I completely respect him for staying in Boston his entire career. He/they had some rough years there. I'm glad he got a championship with them. He deserves it.
With that said, I'm rooting for the Thunder. Unfortunately, they don't play enough defense so they won't be winning it. But WOW do I love watching Durant play. In my opinion, he's the best offensive player in the NBA by a pretty decent margin. I really loved Russell Westbrook until the last 3 games. He's starting to hog that ball and chuck. 29 shots for a point guard is way too many, especially with a guy like Durant. If you're attempting more field goals as the point guard than your best player is there are problems.
Quote from: buzzchiapet on May 01, 2011, 11:50:28 PM
Is this team really playing good team basketball yet? ... Let's go Blazers, San Antonio, Twolves!!
For those that enjoy team Bball, and the sum playing better than the parts, you may enjoy seeing the Grizzlies right now. On paper Durant and Thunder, just like San Antonio have the horses, but Grizz play a sagging matchup zone D with a nice semi motion offense. Each player seems to play well within his role. I have never watched or rooted their play...but for a college style fan, they're an interesting watch. So far they have done great shutting down opponents stars, and daring the others role players to step up--who mostly havent. Its doubtful they'll advance all the way, but Im watching/rooting their success for this playoff year.
Totally agree houwarrior - the Grizz are playing really entertaining ball right now. And unlike the entertaining fluke of the Golden State Warriors that just bombed away as soon as they crossed half court, they're doing it with awesome interior play from Randolph and Gasol with tough D. Randolph is a much better and different type of player than I assumed he was (from his lazy/headcase reputation). I'd really like to see a Heat/Grizzlies matchup in the finals.
Quote from: PJDunn on May 02, 2011, 10:39:27 AM
Does the NBA still exist? If so, why?
The NBA NEEDS to exist so that the owners can prop up the WNBA, of course.
And, there's the merchandise sales, too.
Game 2 tonight, Let's Go Heat!
My familiy and I spent Easter weekend visiting my sister's family in Memphis. Before Good Friday, I couldn't name a single Grizzlies player. After watching two games in Memphis bars on Beale Street and seeing how excited everyone in Memphis is (although clearly some fair weather fans, as you would expect), I am rooting for Wade (therefore the Heat) #1 and Memphis #1a. Z-bo (still don't entirely get the nickname besides the Z) is making everything he throws up (way up) in the air, and the other guys are continuously hustling.
And if MU's Mayo is half the player as his half brother, I will be more than satisfied.
I am not an NBA fan (only been to a handful of games and did not grow up in an NBA town) but I am into the playoffs solely because of Wade. I dont care who his support teammates are. Last time I had any interest in the NBA playoffs was when Miami won. If the T Wolves were contenders I would probably be watching solely because of Lazar.
If Wade and Lebron play like they have the past 2 games for the rest of the playoffs, they will win the whole thing going away.
Just awesome to watch wade do so well!
Still believe that Bosh needs to also step up more for them to win it all. They are playing very good D, and Joel Anthony is a surprise there also. If Haslem comes back, he will also help, but likely somewhat limited.
There isn't an athlete on any team I love that I've enjoyed more than watching Wade. Keep rubbing their noses in it D!
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on May 04, 2011, 09:16:57 AM
If Wade and Lebron play like they have the past 2 games for the rest of the playoffs, they will win the whole thing going away.
Just awesome to watch wade do so well!
Is it really that awesome? This was Wades team, and probably still is, but if they win they will credit and praise LBJ. The way everyone was praising LBJ and Melo in the draft 8 years ago compared to Wade was royalty to dirt. Everyone thought it would be LBJ to win a championship first and now he has to go to Wade for help. At least for me its not that awesome to watch them play great. Love Wade, but hard to cheer for Heat now.
Quote from: buzzchiapet on May 04, 2011, 10:00:25 AM
Is it really that awesome? This was Wades team, and probably still is, but if they win they will credit and praise LBJ. The way everyone was praising LBJ and Melo in the draft 8 years ago compared to Wade was royalty to dirt. Everyone thought it would be LBJ to win a championship first and now he has to go to Wade for help. At least for me its not that awesome to watch them play great. Love Wade, but hard to cheer for Heat now.
I don't know about that. I feel like people are starting to realize that, regardless of the stats that LBJ puts up, Wade is the straw that stirs the drink. Simmons, who is a HUGE LBJ fanboy, has already admitted that.
I can't stand the NBA. THe only team I even remotely follow has been Portland (and Utah) due to Wes. If Lazar starts playing for a decent team, I'd probalby watch him.
I could care less about Wade now. He did his thing down there. Everyone knows how good he is, and now he has Bron Bron on his teet/nuts as they carry each other to a hopeful NBA title. Not to be all old school, but there is no chance in hell that this happens in the 80s/90s. Not top two players set things up to play w/each other instead of against each other. It's a joke.
The Wade/Bron marriage has turned me even more off the NBA (and Wade) than ever. Toss in his not-exactly-father-of-the-year antics, and I'm just tired of Wade. Not to say he's not the best thing of MU ever and he deserves all his props, I'm just saying for me, personally....meh.
NBA blows. NHL playoffs, however....now THAT is the toughest professional championship in all of sports.
Bring on the hate.
You can directly tie the Heat playing really well now to the configuration of Wade being the alpha dog on this team, LbJ essentially being the "Magic 2.0" PG and lockdown defender. Whenever/however they made that shift, it's resulted in them playing really good basketball.
I do agree their team is based on playing 1-on-1, but you have WADE and JAMES, probably in the top 5 of those types of guys in the league.
This series is a matchup nightmare for Bosh (Garnett just owns him), just like it's a nightmare for Rondo on the other end. If the Heat get the Lakers, Bosh could have a field day, since they'd have to guard him with Odom (way too soft), or either Gasol/Bynum (way too slow).
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on May 04, 2011, 10:20:06 AM
I can't stand the NBA. THe only team I even remotely follow has been Portland (and Utah) due to Wes. If Lazar starts playing for a decent team, I'd probalby watch him.
I could care less about Wade now. He did his thing down there. Everyone knows how good he is, and now he has Bron Bron on his teet/nuts as they carry each other to a hopeful NBA title. Not to be all old school, but there is no chance in hell that this happens in the 80s/90s. Not top two players set things up to play w/each other instead of against each other. It's a joke.
The Wade/Bron marriage has turned me even more off the NBA (and Wade) than ever. Toss in his not-exactly-father-of-the-year antics, and I'm just tired of Wade. Not to say he's not the best thing of MU ever and he deserves all his props, I'm just saying for me, personally....meh.
NBA blows. NHL playoffs, however....now THAT is the toughest professional championship in all of sports.
Bring on the hate.
Not getting why you would watch Wes and Lazar and dis Wade, the best player MU has ever produced. What--his divorce--his wife was a fruitcake firing several attornies and going ballistic in the media.
wWat is wrong with Wade and Lebron teaming up? It is OK for Bryant/Gasol and Anthony/Stoudemaire and the Three musketeers in Boston. but becuase Wade took less money than the others to make it happen, you are turned off by the Wade?Lebron duo.
Oh well, to each his own.
I don't understand the blah reaction to wade.
Is it because he already has a ring and a finals mvp?
I loved him at MU obviously, and vowed to be a fan of whatever team he made in the league.
Anyone remember his game winner against charlotte his rookie year? He is a phenomenal talent that attracts the best to come play with him.
Rest up till Saturday HEAT!
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on May 04, 2011, 10:46:20 AM
Anyone remember his game winner against charlotte his rookie year?
Most people would say they were too busy watching LBJ and Melo and didnt believe Wade was / would be at the same level.
Im not bashing on you Im just going to be pissed when I hear, "yes we all knew this day would come.. LeBron is and was born a champion."
Quote from: buzzchiapet on May 04, 2011, 12:43:28 PM
Most people would say they were too busy watching LBJ and Melo and didnt believe Wade was / would be at the same level.
Im not bashing on you Im just going to be pissed when I hear, "yes we all knew this day would come.. LeBron is and was born a champion."
And then they will turn and hand the finals MVP trophy to Dwade.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 04, 2011, 10:39:48 AM
Not getting why you would watch Wes and Lazar and dis Wade, the best player MU has ever produced. What--his divorce--his wife was a fruitcake firing several attornies and going ballistic in the media.
wWat is wrong with Wade and Lebron teaming up? It is OK for Bryant/Gasol and Anthony/Stoudemaire and the Three musketeers in Boston. but becuase Wade took less money than the others to make it happen, you are turned off by the Wade?Lebron duo.
Oh well, to each his own.
Wow willie, for once we completely agree.
Do people not get it? The more championships Wade accumulates, the more he is lionized, the easier it is to recruit to Marquette. It couldn't be clearer. Even if you hate the NBA, Wade winning it all as many times as possible will pay massive self-compounding dividends to the Marquette hoops program for several generations. I don't understand how even the most casual MU fan has any trouble seeing that. I was no LeBron fan before The Decision and I'm neutral at best now, but if his move to Miami delivers those championships, it directly aids MU recruiting. And we can all take solace in the fact that Wade will always have one up on him.
Quote from: Jamailman on May 04, 2011, 02:54:06 PM
Wow willie, for once we completely agree.
Do people not get it? The more championships Wade accumulates, the more he is lionized, the easier it is to recruit to Marquette. It couldn't be clearer. Even if you hate the NBA, Wade winning it all as many times as possible will pay massive self-compounding dividends to the Marquette hoops program for several generations. I don't understand how even the most casual MU fan has any trouble seeing that. I was no LeBron fan before The Decision and I'm neutral at best now, but if his move to Miami delivers those championships, it directly aids MU recruiting. And we can all take solace in the fact that Wade will always have one up on him.
Agreed it helps recruiting to an extent, just not sure whose recruiting it helps most ;).
There are people on this board, including me, who see an open spot at the SG in Chicago where Wade would be challenging the 72 win mark for the next couple of years. These guys lead on New York and Chicago, so there is some bitterness there out of what could have been from the fans and the media. The NBA almost had Lebron in New York, Wade in Chicago, and Kobe in LA. David Stern's dream.
While there is some rejection anger in the big markets, it still is not the most courageous thing in sports to do regarding teaming up voluntarily. Wade and James are much higher in caliber than any of the modern "Big whatevers." It does seem like Lebron admitted that he could not get past Wade so he needed his help. Fairly or unfairly, no one of his caliber has done that in his prime. It is different when it is a trade for some reason, too.
I love Wade, but I really don't like the Heat at all. The Lebron, Carmelo, Deron Williams, etc. generation is not as fun for me to watch as the Rose, Durant, and Blake Griffin generation. There is a different competitive edge to these young guys and it is fun to watch.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on May 04, 2011, 03:18:14 PM
While there is some rejection anger in the big markets, it still is not the most courageous thing in sports to do regarding teaming up voluntarily. Wade and James are much higher in caliber than any of the modern "Big whatevers." It does seem like Lebron admitted that he could not get past Wade so he needed his help. Fairly or unfairly, no one of his caliber has done that in his prime. It is different when it is a trade for some reason, too.
The only thing it indicates to me is that Lebron wants to win it all and he didn't see it happening in Cleveland (ever) and didn't see it happening any time soon in NY. Hard to blame a guy for that.
If a guy wants to win and also happens to be a close friend with another superstar player on a team that wants to take him, I don't see the harm in that or why that's such an objectionable decision. In fact, you could construe it as laudable...he gives up the chance at indvidual glory (and max money) in order to give himself the best possible chance to win multiple titles.
However, the way in which the whole thing played out was a disaster and left me liking lebron a whole lot less...and I didn't really care for him all that much before it all went down.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 04, 2011, 04:06:41 PM
The only thing it indicates to me is that Lebron wants to win it all and he didn't see it happening in Cleveland (ever) and didn't see it happening any time soon in NY. Hard to blame a guy for that.
If a guy wants to win and also happens to be a close friend with another superstar player on a team that wants to take him, I don't see the harm in that or why that's such an objectionable decision. In fact, you could construe it as laudable...he gives up the chance at indvidual glory (and max money) in order to give himself the best possible chance to win multiple titles.
However, the way in which the whole thing played out was a disaster and left me liking lebron a whole lot less...and I didn't really care for him all that much before it all went down.
Yeah, Lebron handled "the decision" poorly and needs some PR help. Yeah, Wade got a divorce and it does take two to tangle, but his wife went into the outer limits. The NBA is big time business, and LeBron made a business decision.
Face it, Lebron is one of the three best basketball players on the planet, and he and Wade are three of the 5 best in the universe. None of them took max money, and Wade took less to make this happen.
They are all about Bball, and I would watch Wade before Lazar and Matthews any day.
But come on, no dis to Lazar or Mathews, but they are not in the same basketball celestial trajectory as Wade.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 04, 2011, 10:39:48 AM
Not getting why you would watch Wes and Lazar and dis Wade, the best player MU has ever produced. What--his divorce--his wife was a fruitcake firing several attornies and going ballistic in the media.
wWat is wrong with Wade and Lebron teaming up? It is OK for Bryant/Gasol and Anthony/Stoudemaire and the Three musketeers in Boston. but becuase Wade took less money than the others to make it happen, you are turned off by the Wade?Lebron duo.
Oh well, to each his own.
Because a lot of Bulls fans wanted him to go to Chicago. If he went to Chicago, then a number of folks wouldn't have an issue. Of course many will say they didn't like how he went about it...that's fair. I'd love to know why there is no outrage then from folks when Jerry West, long time Laker, goes to Memphis as a GM and then trades Gasol to the Lakers (his former team) for a bag of peanuts. Talk about a joke of a trade that was incredibly one sided. Or let's look at how Shaq ended up being a Laker....same thing.
People get upset about one thing and turn their head the other way on some others that are actually engineered and agreed upon by the league. The NBA had to approve that Gasol trade...ridiculous that they did.
Marc Gasol is hardly playing like a bag of peanuts. He outdoes his brother each time they go head to head and he's a big reason Memphis is still in the playoffs. But I agree that trade was a doozy
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on May 04, 2011, 10:46:20 AM
I don't understand the blah reaction to wade.
Is it because he already has a ring and a finals mvp?
I loved him at MU obviously, and vowed to be a fan of whatever team he made in the league.
Anyone remember his game winner against charlotte his rookie year? He is a phenomenal talent that attracts the best to come play with him.
It's the IU shorts thing.
Rest up till Saturday HEAT!
Quote from: willie warrior on May 04, 2011, 04:51:30 PM
Yeah, Lebron handled "the decision" poorly and needs some PR help. Yeah, Wade got a divorce and it does take two to tangle, but his wife went into the outer limits. The NBA is big time business, and LeBron made a business decision.
Face it, Lebron is one of the three best basketball players on the planet, and he and Wade are three of the 5 best in the universe. None of them took max money, and Wade took less to make this happen.
They are all about Bball, and I would watch Wade before Lazar and Matthews any day.
But come on, no dis to Lazar or Mathews, but they are not in the same basketball celestial trajectory as Wade.
Not sure I agree with the LeBron angle here. Did he make a business decision? I don't think so. If he was strictly motivated by the business, he'd be in New York. Far more opportunities for marketing dollars, and he would have been The Man in the biggest city in the NBA.
And as good as LeBron is, my issue with him is that he doesn't have a desire to be the best. He doesn't have the heart of a Jordan, a Bryant, a Bird, a Magic, or any of the all-time greats. He chose to be Robin to D-Wade's Batman. Miami was always Wade's town, and was always going to be Wade's town. As much as LeBron may be one of the best basketball players all-time in terms of talent, he'd rather be Scottie Pippen than Michael Jordan.
It's not because he left Cleveland. He could have been The Man in New York, New Jersey, even in Chicago (where a year ago, D-Rose didn't have near the Q-rating he has now). He went to the only city in the bidding where he didn't have to be the alpha male. I respect his game, I just wish he had half the desire of the true all-time greats. I can't even imagine how good LeBron could be if he had as much passion and desire for the game as Jordan has in the last knuckle of his pinky finger.
He made a decision because he wanted the easy path to getting the title monkey off his back and because he didn't have to be the leader in getting that title. Great player, but a follower, not a leader. Because of that, he'll never reach his true potential. As a basketball fan, that disappoints me greatly.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 04, 2011, 08:56:58 PM
It's not because he left Cleveland. He could have been The Man in New York, New Jersey, even in Chicago (where a year ago, D-Rose didn't have near the Q-rating he has now). He went to the only city in the bidding where he didn't have to be the alpha male. I respect his game, I just wish he had half the desire of the true all-time greats. I can't even imagine how good LeBron could be if he had as much passion and desire for the game as Jordan has in the last knuckle of his pinky finger.
I think that people did get upset a little bit about leaving Cleveland. That was a pretty cool storyline. The hometown kid lifts the curse of Cleveland or dies trying. The hometown hero leaves home to go party with his buddies on the beach.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on May 04, 2011, 10:27:16 PMI think that people did get upset a little bit about leaving Cleveland. That was a pretty cool storyline. The hometown kid lifts the curse of Cleveland or dies trying. The hometown hero leaves home to go party with his buddies on the beach.
Without a doubt, but the point I was trying to make is that he didn't have to stay in Cleveland to be "The Man" on his team. In New York, New Jersey, or Chicago he would have been seen as "The Man". But Miami was always and will always be Wade's team and Wade's city. LeBron chose to go to the one place where all the blame wouldn't fall on him. That choice proved he doesn't have the same competitive fire that makes guys like Jordan, Bird, and Kobe the kind of dominant players that they are. He shied away from that choice, instead playing second fiddle (despite all his talent) to the obvious face of the Heat franchise, Dwyane Wade.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 04, 2011, 06:17:43 PM
I'd love to know why there is no outrage then from folks when Jerry West, long time Laker, goes to Memphis as a GM and then trades Gasol to the Lakers (his former team) for a bag of peanuts. Talk about a joke of a trade that was incredibly one sided. Or let's look at how Shaq ended up being a Laker....same thing.
People get upset about one thing and turn their head the other way on some others that are actually engineered and agreed upon by the league. The NBA had to approve that Gasol trade...ridiculous that they did.
1. West was no longer the GM when Gasol was traded. There's been plenty of bad trades made in the NBA, and that wasn't a great trade, but it doesn't rank anywhere close to the worst. There's no reason the league should be mettling in team's business.
2. Shaq signed as a freee agent with the Lakers, not sure how there can be much questionable there.
Quote from: jmayer1 on May 05, 2011, 10:13:39 AM
There's no reason the league should be mettling in team's business.
Actually, it has happened. In the early 80s, The Cleveland Cavaliers made so many bad trades of players and draft picks, under owner Ted Stepien, that the NBA barred them from any trades without prior league review and approval...and it only lifted the ban after Stepien sold to the Gund brothers, who, although one of them was blind, still knew how to run a team better than trader Ted--lol.
dirty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcVcPVSYzJ4
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 04, 2011, 06:17:43 PM
Because a lot of Bulls fans wanted him to go to Chicago. If he went to Chicago, then a number of folks wouldn't have an issue. Of course many will say they didn't like how he went about it...that's fair. I'd love to know why there is no outrage then from folks when Jerry West, long time Laker, goes to Memphis as a GM and then trades Gasol to the Lakers (his former team) for a bag of peanuts. Talk about a joke of a trade that was incredibly one sided. Or let's look at how Shaq ended up being a Laker....same thing.
There was loads of criticism over that trade (though West wasn't Memphis' GM at the time), most prominently from Gregg Popovich.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/02/08/popovich.grizzlies/
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4447/memphis-gm-chris-wallace-to-critics-show-your-faces
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308
Funny thing is, in hindsight it was a pretty good deal for Memphis. That trade (or assets acquired through it) turned into Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Darrell Arthur, Sam Young and Greivis Vasquez. Not bad for a guy who desperately wanted out.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2011, 12:11:00 AM
There was loads of criticism over that trade (though West wasn't Memphis' GM at the time), most prominently from Gregg Popovich.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/02/08/popovich.grizzlies/
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4447/memphis-gm-chris-wallace-to-critics-show-your-faces
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308
Funny thing is, in hindsight it was a pretty good deal for Memphis. That trade (or assets acquired through it) turned into Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Darrell Arthur, Sam Young and Greivis Vasquez. Not bad for a guy who desperately wanted out.
Yea, initially that trade looked to be a travesty, but with the strong development of Marc Gasol, not so much anymore, and Marc is younger with even more room to keep getting better.
Congratulations to Dwyane Wade and the Heat on a big series win last night! To expand on an earlier post about Wade win titles helps our recruiting, I couldn't agree more! A few years ago ESPN aired a story about Wade and his helping a young boy who was sick and in the hospital. It was a very moving story and they showed Wade with the boy's family and how he gave Heat tickets to the family. For the entire story Wade wore Marquette gear, not Heat gear. So yes, he's a great ambassador for our school and I wish him continued success this season!
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on May 04, 2011, 10:20:06 AM
I could care less about Wade now. He did his thing down there. Everyone knows how good he is, and now he has Bron Bron on his teet/nuts as they carry each other to a hopeful NBA title. Not to be all old school, but there is no chance in hell that this happens in the 80s/90s. Not top two players set things up to play w/each other instead of against each other. It's a joke.
The Wade/Bron marriage has turned me even more off the NBA (and Wade) than ever. Toss in his not-exactly-father-of-the-year antics, and I'm just tired of Wade. Not to say he's not the best thing of MU ever and he deserves all his props, I'm just saying for me, personally....meh.
Bring on the hate.
Wade's character has been revealed. NBA manwhore. After all his "aw shucks, I love my wife and my kids" nonsense when he was at MU, I expected more.
Quote from: ringout on May 12, 2011, 10:12:57 AM
Really?
I know of a Prince in Nigeria who needs to borrow some money from you.
Here's hoping to see one of these tonight!
Go Heat!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnAKjeElUzc
(Note: Brad Miller's face is priceless)
Quote from: El Duderino on May 12, 2011, 01:09:06 AM
Yea, initially that trade looked to be a travesty, but with the strong development of Marc Gasol, not so much anymore, and Marc is younger with even more room to keep getting better.
And that trade helped them clear space for Zach Randolph. In hindsight, a great trade for both teams.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 12, 2011, 12:11:00 AM
There was loads of criticism over that trade (though West wasn't Memphis' GM at the time), most prominently from Gregg Popovich.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/02/08/popovich.grizzlies/
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4447/memphis-gm-chris-wallace-to-critics-show-your-faces
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308
Funny thing is, in hindsight it was a pretty good deal for Memphis. That trade (or assets acquired through it) turned into Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Darrell Arthur, Sam Young and Greivis Vasquez. Not bad for a guy who desperately wanted out.
That trade also gave two championships to the Lakers on a silver platter....plus three straight trips to the NBA Finals. Put another way, commissioners that are interested in competitive balance wouldn't let this stuff happen, especially for unproven players like that.
Being a Bulls fan, I am cheering for Wade to score 60 but the Bulls to win ;D
Back in 2006 when the Heat won the title, I cheered for the Heat over the Bulls since there was no way the Bulls could compete for a championship like the Heat and Wade could.
I also don't want to see Lebron ever win a championship.
Quote from: jmayer1 on May 05, 2011, 10:13:39 AM
1. West was no longer the GM when Gasol was traded. There's been plenty of bad trades made in the NBA, and that wasn't a great trade, but it doesn't rank anywhere close to the worst. There's no reason the league should be mettling in team's business.
2. Shaq signed as a freee agent with the Lakers, not sure how there can be much questionable there.
I think this article shares how involved West was with the deal...you are correct (I was wrong) he had just recently given up his GM title.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308
On number 2, if you harken back to 1996 there was a big rift about whether O'Neal was even qualified to be a free agent. Not coincidentally, this was prior to the last time we went down the path of a NBA Lockout. At issue was whether he was truly a free agent based on the August 8th tentative CBA reached in 1995. Orlando said he was not a free agent and his agent said otherwise. This was the era of such agent beauties as Armato (Shaq's agent), Falk, etc and such. Orlando had the ability to sign him for what ever they wished to pay under the rules in those days, as he was under their control...a team could sign their own free agents to unlimited amount while a competing team could not.
Yes, once O'Neal was "interpreted" to be a Free Agent by the NBA, a condition that many in Orlando disagreed with because they argued that is not what the tentative CBA stated, the Lakers signed him. That is what my reference was. One has to wonder if Shaq was playing for the Lakers, Knicks, Bulls or another big market team if the NBA would have ruled in such a manner as it did with Orlando. A number of journalists wondered that out loud back in the day.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 18, 2011, 02:39:27 PM
Being a Bulls fan, I am cheering for Wade to score 60 but the Bulls to win ;D
Back in 2006 when the Heat won the title, I cheered for the Heat over the Bulls since there was no way the Bulls could compete for a championship like the Heat and Wade could.
I also don't want to see Lebron ever win a championship.
I hope Lebron wins 10 just to piss people off. I find it hilarious that big market teams lure guys all the time to play for them with no repercussions at all, but this guy chose to leave but because he had a "decision" televised it gets everyone so damn bent. When Dwight Howard goes to the Lakers or Bulls or wherever next year, people aren't going to give the guy the 3rd degree, the very same fans of these teams that whine incessantly at James. If James went to the Bulls, would Bulls fans be all anti-Lebron? LOL...of course not.
Doesn't much matter...BRING ON THE LOCKOUT. Can't wait.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 02:44:04 PM
I hope Lebron wins 10 just to piss people off. I find it hilarious that big market teams lure guys all the time to play for them with no repercussions at all, but this guy chose to leave but because he had a "decision" televised it gets everyone so damn bent. When Dwight Howard goes to the Lakers or Bulls or wherever next year, people aren't going to give the guy the 3rd degree, the very same fans of these teams that whine incessantly at James. If James went to the Bulls, would Bulls fans be all anti-Lebron? LOL...of course not.
+1
Bulls fans are crying almost as much as people from Cleveland. I hope LeBron and Wade light the Bulls up.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
That trade also gave two championships to the Lakers on a silver platter....plus three straight trips to the NBA Finals. Put another way, commissioners that are interested in competitive balance wouldn't let this stuff happen, especially for unproven players like that.
Commissioners interested in competitive balance wouldn't allow trades that benefit both teams?
Yes, the trade helped the Lakers win two championships. It also played a large part in building the first and only Grizzlies team to win a playoff series in the franchise's 15-year history.
Why would a commissioner block such a deal?
Teams in
every professional American sport trade established, proven stars for unproven players or draft picks. Why does this one trade bother you more than the hundreds of others?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
That trade also gave two championships to the Lakers on a silver platter....plus three straight trips to the NBA Finals. Put another way, commissioners that are interested in competitive balance wouldn't let this stuff happen, especially for unproven players like that.
The NBA is the least competitively balanced league in existence and has been for years. Why would Stern start being interested in competitive balance now?
Go Bulls
Quote from: Henry Sugar on May 18, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
The NBA is the least competitively balanced league in existence and has been for years. Why would Stern start being interested in competitive balance now?
Lakers/Celtics' 33 combined titles account for more than half of the 64 championships in NBA history. just sayin
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 02:44:04 PM
I hope Lebron wins 10 just to piss people off. I find it hilarious that big market teams lure guys all the time to play for them with no repercussions at all, but this guy chose to leave but because he had a "decision" televised it gets everyone so damn bent.
I do think that there is an element of "public rejection" with "The Decision" that inflamed people's emotions...and James is to blame for that.
However, I think that Dan Gilbert's over-the-top reaction to it was the bigger problem.
Quote from: ringout on May 12, 2011, 10:12:57 AM
Wade's character has been revealed. NBA manwhore. After all his "aw shucks, I love my wife and my kids" nonsense when he was at MU, I expected more.
His image at MU was a well-crafted.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 02:44:04 PM
I hope Lebron wins 10 just to piss people off. I find it hilarious that big market teams lure guys all the time to play for them with no repercussions at all, but this guy chose to leave but because he had a "decision" televised it gets everyone so damn bent. When Dwight Howard goes to the Lakers or Bulls or wherever next year, people aren't going to give the guy the 3rd degree, the very same fans of these teams that whine incessantly at James. If James went to the Bulls, would Bulls fans be all anti-Lebron? LOL...of course not.
Doesn't much matter...BRING ON THE LOCKOUT. Can't wait.
Of course Bulls fans wouldn't be anti-Lebron. The point is, Lebron has gone from being one of the most liked players in the league to where he is now by being a douche. It has nothing to do with market size or where he is playing. He hamstrung Cleveland for years by not signing a long term deal and then claimed they didn't bring in the right talent. Well nobody in their prime wanted to come to Cleveland if Lebron might leave. He also talked at length about Cleveland being HIS city, and all that hometown crap, and then he left them in a publicly humiliating way, and then turned around and said he and his Akron buddies always disliked Cleveland anyways. It wasn't just that he left, it was his way of doing everything the last few years.
Quote from: ringout on May 12, 2011, 10:12:57 AM
Wade's character has been revealed. NBA manwhore. After all his "aw shucks, I love my wife and my kids" nonsense when he was at MU, I expected more.
Your outrage at Wade being loyal to the team that drafted him is adorable.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 18, 2011, 03:37:48 PM
Of course Bulls fans wouldn't be anti-Lebron. The point is, Lebron has gone from being one of the most liked players in the league to where he is now by being a douche. It has nothing to do with market size or where he is playing. He hamstrung Cleveland for years by not signing a long term deal and then claimed they didn't bring in the right talent. Well nobody in their prime wanted to come to Cleveland if Lebron might leave. He also talked at length about Cleveland being HIS city, and all that hometown crap, and then he left them in a publicly humiliating way, and then turned around and said he and his Akron buddies always disliked Cleveland anyways. It wasn't just that he left, it was his way of doing everything the last few years.
For the record, I always thought LeBron was kind of a douche, but that has been negated by the overall awesomeness that our Wade, of all players, was the one he wanted to play with. Not a certain city, or fanbase...but Wade.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 18, 2011, 03:19:55 PM
I do think that there is an element of "public rejection" with "The Decision" that inflamed people's emotions...and James is to blame for that.
I think it had less to do with public rejection than with over-the-top narcissism of "The Decision."
Combine that with a decision that indicates LeBron is more interested in living it up on South Beach and taking the easiest possible route to an NBA title than in carving out a legacy as a generational great, toss in a Nike commercial with a sickening amount of self-pity, and it's a PR disaster from which he'll probably never recover.
Note: LeBron has every right to live it up on South Beach and easiest possible route to a title, but the public has the same right to be critical of him or lose respect for him because of it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 18, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
His image at MU was a well-crafted.
He learned from the master, though I always felt he had much substance than his mentor.
Chicos, I've hated LeBron well before he went to Miami.
He's constantly dancing on the court despite not winning anything. He disappears in the playoffs. Yet he calls himself "King James". I didn't realize winning a High School State Title got you that title?
I think a lot of people on here are crapping on the Bulls just because they hate everything from Illinois.
Quote from: NYWarrior on May 18, 2011, 03:15:45 PM
Lakers/Celtics' 33 combined titles account for more than half of the 64 championships in NBA history. just sayin
How many of those occurred when there were 8 to 14 teams in the league?
Quote from: Pakuni on May 18, 2011, 03:09:47 PM
Commissioners interested in competitive balance wouldn't allow trades that benefit both teams?
Yes, the trade helped the Lakers win two championships. It also played a large part in building the first and only Grizzlies team to win a playoff series in the franchise's 15-year history.
Why would a commissioner block such a deal?
Teams in every professional American sport trade established, proven stars for unproven players or draft picks. Why does this one trade bother you more than the hundreds of others?
Pakuni....you need to do some history lessons on trades denied by the NFL, NBA (pre Stern) and especially in the MLB because they had serious issues on objective outcomes. As you noted earlier, several teams screamed bloody murder as they should have. I've lived in this town long enough, have enough friends at the Lakers organization to know they get what they want and they don't even hide it. They wink and smile because they know it's going to happen. Trade Divac for Kobe Bryant...no problem. Trade Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie and two picks for Pao Gasol....two picks that are crapshoot how they turn out (lucky for Memphis they did turn out, of course we all know with the NBA they won't be in Memphis long), etc. Don't be shocked to see Howard here next and all the ankle breakers can reload their cars with their Laker flags.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 18, 2011, 03:45:05 PM
Note: LeBron has every right to live it up on South Beach and easiest possible route to a title, but the public has the same right to be critical of him or lose respect for him because of it.
Or be hypocritical when he didn't go to their team
Quote from: JWags85 on May 18, 2011, 03:37:48 PM
Of course Bulls fans wouldn't be anti-Lebron. The point is, Lebron has gone from being one of the most liked players in the league to where he is now by being a douche. It has nothing to do with market size or where he is playing. He hamstrung Cleveland for years by not signing a long term deal and then claimed they didn't bring in the right talent. Well nobody in their prime wanted to come to Cleveland if Lebron might leave. He also talked at length about Cleveland being HIS city, and all that hometown crap, and then he left them in a publicly humiliating way, and then turned around and said he and his Akron buddies always disliked Cleveland anyways. It wasn't just that he left, it was his way of doing everything the last few years.
And when it is all said and done, most folks will put it behind them except for a few. He'll win a few titles...I honestly believe as some NBA execs (Lakers guys I know in particular) that this will be the WORST Heat team in the next five years. All this gloom and doom they won't be able to sign anyone...rubbish. He'll win a few, hopefully not act like a prick in the process and people will understand this is what he wanted. Folks will mild their stance a bit because Lord only knows America loves to forgive. He got some bad advice, the decision was really stupid but if he went to Bulls then Bulls fans would not have an issue with the "decision" neither would Lakers fans if he came here.
He did not hamstring Cleveland for years. These are the rules by which the CBA operates. Other players don't want to play in Cleveland, that's a fact of life. This is why it's the same franchises in the NBA that typically win...there are exceptions but for the most part the star players want to migrate to play for the Lakers, Celtics and a few others. Howard can't get out of Orlando fast enough, but I'll bet very few people here are going to scream "he hamstrung poor Orlando"....please....especially if he dons the colors of their team.
So, if Orlando has no shot, even with no state income tax, then the Bucks might as well take the gaspipe.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 18, 2011, 05:36:16 PM
Chicos, I've hated LeBron well before he went to Miami.
He's constantly dancing on the court despite not winning anything. He disappears in the playoffs. Yet he calls himself "King James". I didn't realize winning a High School State Title got you that title?
I think a lot of people on here are crapping on the Bulls just because they hate everything from Illinois.
Yea Lebron really dissapered that last series against the Celtics ::)
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 18, 2011, 08:52:41 PM
Yea Lebron really dissapered that last series against the Celtics ::)
Contests to Lebron on not disappearing in one meaningful series in the last 8 years. And of course he celebrated like a clown afterwards for winning a second round series.
And that wasn't the same quality Celtic team as from years past.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 08:14:13 PM
Howard can't get out of Orlando fast enough, but I'll bet very few people here are going to scream "he hamstrung poor Orlando"....please....especially if he dons the colors of their team.
This is exactly right, and for the life of me, I cannot understand where the LeBron criticism is coming from. Was the announcement thing ridiculous and stupid? Yes it was. But at the same time, I have no idea why anyone cares. What does it matter? The guy is the best player in the league, and everyone knows it. He chose where to play based on money, location, and the team around him, and people are going to hold that against him? Why, because he decided to go somewhere they didn't want him to? Because they didn't like the way he announced it? That's equally stupid. Jealousy, plain and simple.
Why was it that the Celtics traded Perkins?
Damn. Bulls played like crap tonight but still made a game of it. Shot 35% and missed its free throws. Have to take one in Miami.
Great win for the Heat.....glad to see Udonis back contributing......closing game on 12-2 run was beautiful to watch.
Road teams job is to win one and steal home court back.....CHECK!
Go Heat and Go Wade.
darn - you mean the bulls didnt hit 50% of their 3's again?
I must disagree with the notion that LeBron disappears in the playoffs. I distinctly remember him single handedly beating the Pistons at the end of games in the '07 playoffs and that was when the Pistons were "the team" in the Eastern Conference. Also, I know statistics don't always tell the whole story but his career playoff statistics are extremely similar to his career regular season statistics.
For the record, I think he's a sore loser and "The Decision" was an awful thing to do to Cleveland.
Quote from: mviale on May 18, 2011, 10:14:33 PM
darn - you mean the bulls didnt hit 50% of their 3's again?
You can't tell me the Bulls didn't play like crap yet still made a game of it. How often does a team shoot 35% and not get blown out?
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on May 18, 2011, 10:13:08 PM
Great win for the Heat.....glad to see Udonis back contributing......closing game on 12-2 run was beautiful to watch.
Haslam was a game changer tonight. Not only did he put up the points he kept the Bulls from getting as many second chance opportunities as game one. His shots were falling short at the end because he was gassed, however, he was solid for a good amount of time seeing how much he has played.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 18, 2011, 05:36:16 PM
Chicos, I've hated LeBron well before he went to Miami.
He's constantly dancing on the court despite not winning anything. He disappears in the playoffs. Yet he calls himself "King James". I didn't realize winning a High School State Title got you that title?
I think a lot of people on here are crapping on the Bulls just because they hate everything from Illinois.
Well, it's easy to crap on things from Illinois. ;D
On your comment about James and the playoffs...is this reality or lore? Sure, against the Celtics last year he didn't produce. Didn't he almost single handedly take the Cleveland Cavaliers to the NBA Finals a few years ago? Think about that statement..CLEVELAND CAVALIERS IN THE NBA FINALS. You won't hear those words again for 50 years and it happened because of him.
Didn't the Cavs beat the Bulls last year in the playoffs? The year prior didn't James hit an insane shot in the playoffs against the Magic with like a second left to win the game and even the series?
In 2007, trailing 2 games to none did he not will his team to 4 straight wins against the Pistons and put them into the Finals?
His career playoff average is almost 30 ppg per game. Seems a lot more myth than reality. People seem to want to take 1 or 2 games and extrapolate to his entire career.
Don't get me wrong, there is plenty not to like but he's also still a young man and they make mistakes. The not shaking hands thing, the powder clap coming onto the court, the Decision...etc, etc. Then again, he's not out there sexually assaulting some young woman in a Denver hotel and having to pay her off....not that we know of. He's not out there gambling like a drunken sailor to the point the league has to have a few chats with him, etc, etc.
I, for one, find is rather refreshing that a guy was willing to join forces with other players nearly his equal and willing to share that limelight...something you almost never see in the NBA anymore.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 12:13:46 AM
I, for one, find is rather refreshing that a guy was willing to join forces with other players nearly his equal and willing to share that limelight...something you almost never see in the NBA anymore.
1. I thought one of the things you hated about the NBA was that some teams can routinely stockpile All Star players. 2. You say he joined forces with players nearly his equal. Player, yes. Players, not even close.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 12:13:46 AM
Well, it's easy to crap on things from Illinois. ;D
On your comment about James and the playoffs...is this reality or lore? Sure, against the Celtics last year he didn't produce. Didn't he almost single handedly take the Cleveland Cavaliers to the NBA Finals a few years ago? Think about that statement..CLEVELAND CAVALIERS IN THE NBA FINALS. You won't hear those words again for 50 years and it happened because of him.
Didn't the Cavs beat the Bulls last year in the playoffs? The year prior didn't James hit an insane shot in the playoffs against the Magic with like a second left to win the game and even the series?
In 2007, trailing 2 games to none did he not will his team to 4 straight wins against the Pistons and put them into the Finals?
His career playoff average is almost 30 ppg per game. Seems a lot more myth than reality. People seem to want to take 1 or 2 games and extrapolate to his entire career.
Don't get me wrong, there is plenty not to like but he's also still a young man and they make mistakes. The not shaking hands thing, the powder clap coming onto the court, the Decision...etc, etc. Then again, he's not out there sexually assaulting some young woman in a Denver hotel and having to pay her off....not that we know of. He's not out there gambling like a drunken sailor to the point the league has to have a few chats with him, etc, etc.
I, for one, find is rather refreshing that a guy was willing to join forces with other players nearly his equal and willing to share that limelight...something you almost never see in the NBA anymore.
You pretty much took exactly what I said and expanded on it a little more. I think it's safe to say we agree.
Bibby looks absolutely horrible out there, like he doesn't even belong on an NBA roster anymore. A decent point guard would make the Heat even more dangerous next year.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 12:13:46 AM
Don't get me wrong, there is plenty not to like but he's also still a young man and they make mistakes.
There are much younger men in the NBA who handle themselves like adults. Lebron has been in the league 8 years. When will he finally grow up?
I don't dislike the Heat. They are my second favorite team. What I dislike is Lebron James.
Quote from: JimmyB! on May 19, 2011, 03:55:51 AM
A decent point guard would make the Heat even more dangerous next year.
I disagree, Wade and Lebron are at their best with the ball in their hands. No point guard needed. Now a talented 5.... then they will be tough to beat.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 12:13:46 AM
Well, it's easy to crap on things from Illinois. ;D
Like D Wade?
The key part of the game last night was when Ashik went out with his injury. Honestly, Miami couldn't do a think with him in there guarding the basket. As soon as Noah got back in there, they had to change up what they did defensively and LBJ took advantage of that.
And Miami won that on the defensive end. The Bulls really need to get Korver or Bogans on track because someone needs to hit some shots out there and punish them for their double teams on Rose.
Korver was an absolute mess out there last night. If he isn't going to score, there is no way they can have him on the floor.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 18, 2011, 10:08:27 PM
Damn. Bulls played like crap tonight but still made a game of it. Shot 35% and missed its free throws. Have to take one in Miami.
That LeBron guy really dissapeared again in the Clutch today ::)
In Lebron's postgame interview he told everyone how he battled through his cold. "Do you hear my voice?" he asked.
Are you for real? A cold? How does he do it playing through a cold????? He really is a king.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 19, 2011, 08:38:50 AM
That LeBron guy really dissapeared again in the Clutch today ::)
Where was he in game 1? The guy doesn't give it his all at all the time. When Deng took a half court shot at the end of the first Lebron just walked past him and didn't even try to guard him.
Lebron has more talent than anyone in the NBA but he doesn't use it all of the time. He also has the best NBA body, yet he doesn't use that to his advantage either. I also don't get why Lebron doesn't develop a post game. With his body, he should be able to dominate most players down low aside from Dwight Howard.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 09:05:48 AM
In Lebron's postgame interview he told everyone how he battled through his cold. "Do you hear my voice?" he asked.
You mean after he was asked about it? Yeah, how dare he answer a question honestly!
But Lebron milked it.
Derrick Rose is playing with a grade 2 sprain in his ankle. When ever he is asked about it he says "It's fine". He doesn't say that he somehow battled through it.
Boozer milks his injury as well when asked about it. He'll let everyone know how bad his toe is.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 09:05:48 AM
In Lebron's postgame interview he told everyone how he battled through his cold. "Do you hear my voice?" he asked.
Are you for real? A cold? How does he do it playing through a cold????? He really is a king.
Where does Lebron overcoming the sniffles rank in the pantheon of courageous NBA playoff performances? More inspirational than Willis Reed one legged performance in 1970? What a joke.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 09:16:27 AM
But Lebron milked it.
Derrick Rose is playing with a grade 2 sprain in his ankle. When ever he is asked about it he says "It's fine". He doesn't say that he somehow battled through it.
You are starting to sound a little obsessive... Just sayin'.
I have more respect for Joe Chapman playing through the flu than Lebron playing through a cold.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 09:10:50 AM
Where was he in game 1? The guy doesn't give it his all at all the time. When Deng took a half court shot at the end of the first Lebron just walked past him and didn't even try to guard him.
Lebron has more talent than anyone in the NBA but he doesn't use it all of the time. He also has the best NBA body, yet he doesn't use that to his advantage either. I also don't get why Lebron doesn't develop a post game. With his body, he should be able to dominate most players down low aside from Dwight Howard.
What a joke. You are clearly blinded by something.
If you are going to call yourself "King", I expect great things.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 08:14:13 PM
He did not hamstring Cleveland for years. These are the rules by which the CBA operates. Other players don't want to play in Cleveland, that's a fact of life. This is why it's the same franchises in the NBA that typically win...there are exceptions but for the most part the star players want to migrate to play for the Lakers, Celtics and a few others. Howard can't get out of Orlando fast enough, but I'll bet very few people here are going to scream "he hamstrung poor Orlando"....please....especially if he dons the colors of their team.
For the record Chicos, I didn't mean going into the future. I mean in the past. The last few years, the Cavs were ready to sign anyone Lebron wanted, but players weren't keen on going to Cleveland, cause they didn't think/know he would stay after the 2010 season. Thats the point I was making.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Deng-hits-60-foot-buzzer-beater-LeBron-s?urn=nba-wp3490 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Deng-hits-60-foot-buzzer-beater-LeBron-s?urn=nba-wp3490)
In response to the Boozer comment, Mike and Mike were talking about him this morning, and is there a bigger waste of a max contract?
Look, it is clearly obvious why LBJ was frustrated in Cleveland. When MJ took his year and a half off from the Bulls, Chicago was still good enough to make the Eastern Conference semis. When LBJ left the Cavs, they became one of the worst teams in the NBA. Plus his owner was obviously a big douche. Can't blame the guy for leaving one bit.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on May 19, 2011, 09:55:19 AM
In response to the Boozer comment, Mike and Mike were talking about him this morning, and is there a bigger waste of a max contract?
Haha nope, he is the biggest.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2011, 08:08:55 PM
Pakuni....you need to do some history lessons on trades denied by the NFL, NBA (pre Stern) and especially in the MLB because they had serious issues on objective outcomes. As you noted earlier, several teams screamed bloody murder as they should have. I've lived in this town long enough, have enough friends at the Lakers organization to know they get what they want and they don't even hide it. They wink and smile because they know it's going to happen. Trade Divac for Kobe Bryant...no problem. Trade Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie and two picks for Pao Gasol....two picks that are crapshoot how they turn out (lucky for Memphis they did turn out, of course we all know with the NBA they won't be in Memphis long), etc. Don't be shocked to see Howard here next and all the ankle breakers can reload their cars with their Laker flags.
Are you seriously suggesting there was something shady about the Divac for Kobe deal? Kobe was a 17 year old kid who had already been passed on by 12 teams in favor of players like Samaki Walker and Kerry Kittles. Divac was a 27 year old 7 footer with durability who had been close to averaging a double double for the past 3 seasons. How is that shady?
I'm aware of the story about his agent telling the Hornets he didn't want to play there, but the deal was supposedly in place the day before with the Hornets having no idea who the Lakers wanted selected, just that they'd get Vlade in exchange.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 10:01:07 AM
Haha nope, he is the biggest.
Baron Davis... Mike Red... there are a ton of horrible maxes.
ironically in 1997, Charlotte GM Bob Bass was named the NBA Executive of the year in part for his trade to acquire Vlade Divac for Kobe.
Divac helped the Hornets improve from 41 to 54 wins that season.
Bass also made the trade of Larry Johnson to the Knicks for Anthony Mason that season.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 19, 2011, 10:11:29 AM
Baron Davis... Mike Red... there are a ton of horrible maxes.
Joe Johnson. Rashard Lewis. Elton Brand.
I'm not even trying hard here.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on May 19, 2011, 10:21:20 AM
Joe Johnson. Rashard Lewis. Elton Brand.
I'm not even trying hard here.
Didn't Vin Baker get a max deal with someone? The Celtics maybe.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 19, 2011, 10:27:35 AM
Didn't Vin Baker get a max deal with someone? The Celtics maybe.
I thought it was the sonics... but I could be wrong, and I won't be looking it up.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on May 19, 2011, 10:21:20 AM
Joe Johnson. Rashard Lewis. Elton Brand.
I'm not even trying hard here.
Agent Zero.
(http://www.snarkdit.com/wp-content/uploads/Gilbert-Arenas-with-a-gun.jpg)
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 09:46:47 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Deng-hits-60-foot-buzzer-beater-LeBron-s?urn=nba-wp3490 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Deng-hits-60-foot-buzzer-beater-LeBron-s?urn=nba-wp3490)
Yea he didnt want to foul the guy.
I dont get why you hate Lebron so much
1.Never gets in trouble with the law
2.Has a fun time when he plays
3.Passes the ball and distributes better than any small forward ever
4.Passed up bigger money just so he could play for a winner
5.O yea and that "decision" that made you so mad....Well guess what....It gave a 2 million dollar donation to the boys and girls club of Connecticut.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 19, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
Yea he didnt want to foul the guy.
I dont get why you hate Lebron so much
1.Never gets in trouble with the law
So What? I'd guess most of the people I hate haven't been in trouble with the law.
2.Has a fun time when he plays
And plays with a completely contrived personality and seems completely self absorbed.
3.Passes the ball and distributes better than any small forward ever
Great passer.
4.Passed up bigger money just so he could play for a winner
He was already on a winning team. He wanted to go to a team where he wasn't the guy.
5.O yea and that "decision" that made you so mad....Well guess what....It gave a 2 million dollar donation to the boys and girls club of Connecticut.
In a completely self aggrandizing way. He could have just signed with Miami and made a 2 million dollar donation, or raised the money in some other way that wasn't the most self absorbed moment in sports history.
And if you saw that play as him not wanting to foul him, I don't even know what to say.
"...most of the people you hate??"
Jeez, I can probably count the number of people I "hate" on one hand. I that is generally set aside for terrorist masterminds or the like.
Yea he didnt want to foul the guy.
Well giving up on the play certainly is one way to do that.
I dont get why you hate Lebron so much
He acts all high and mighty despite not having a title. He has the most talent and best NBA body yet he doesn't utilize it all of the time.
1.Never gets in trouble with the law
I can only dislike criminals?
2.Has a fun time when he plays
He dances after meaningless baskets. Dance when you win something.
3.Passes the ball and distributes better than any small forward ever
Yes. He is the best player in the NBA. (This isn't sarcasm.)
4.Passed up bigger money just so he could play for a winner
Lebron passed up very little. Florida doesn't have a state income tax plus a lot of his money is from endorsements. Wade took the biggest paycut. Why didn't Lebron pass up more money so the Heat could afford a bench?
5.O yea and that "decision" that made you so mad....Well guess what....It gave a 2 million dollar donation to the boys and girls club of Connecticut.
Right.... he held that show just to benefit the children. It wasn't about him at all.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 19, 2011, 07:26:37 AM
I disagree, Wade and Lebron are at their best with the ball in their hands. No point guard needed. Now a talented 5.... then they will be tough to beat.
Then why do they even play bibby? He is clearly does more harm than good out there.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 12:55:15 PM
Yea he didnt want to foul the guy.
Well giving up on the play certainly is one way to do that.
I dont get why you hate Lebron so much
He acts all high and mighty despite not having a title. He has the most talent and best NBA body yet he doesn't utilize it all of the time.
1.Never gets in trouble with the law
I can only dislike criminals?
2.Has a fun time when he plays
He dances after meaningless baskets. Dance when you win something.
3.Passes the ball and distributes better than any small forward ever
Yes. He is the best player in the NBA. (This isn't sarcasm.)
4.Passed up bigger money just so he could play for a winner
Lebron passed up very little. Florida doesn't have a state income tax plus a lot of his money is from endorsements. Wade took the biggest paycut. Why didn't Lebron pass up more money so the Heat could afford a bench?
5.O yea and that "decision" that made you so mad....Well guess what....It gave a 2 million dollar donation to the boys and girls club of Connecticut.
Right.... he held that show just to benefit the children. It wasn't about him at all.
If you take a step back and think about it for a minute, do you hate James more because of the whole Bulls thing? You usually don't take this strong of a stand on things unless they have to do with your favorite sports teams.
Personally, I can't see disliking any of his faults enough to really care that much since he's still so fun to watch play. I guess I'm wondering why it struck such a chord with you?
Rules of the NBA according to tall-titan
1.Never make a smart career decision because you might piss off some fans in Cleveland and jealous Bulls fans
2.You can only celebrate if you have won a title.
Lebron you cant celebrate after a big bucket but Luke Walton can feel free to do it whenever he wants cause he earned it. O yea Dickie Simpkins earned it as well so dance Dickie Dance!!!!! Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller: I better not see as much as a fist pump out of you losers!!!
3.You can never do a United Way, NBA Charities, Make a donation, or make any public appereances unless of course it only comes from the heart and not for any publicity. Dont even think about giving two million to children because you are obviously only doing it cause your a self centered prima donna who wants spotlight
4. If you are a star player you have to stay with your team....Or go to the Bulls
BREAKING NEWS
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/122239109.html
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs46/f/2009/193/b/1/Homer_eating_an_ice_cream_by_Terrami.png)
As I have stated at least two times already in this thread..... I've disliked Lebron well before he left Cleveland.
It has nothing to do with him not going to the Bulls.
1.Never make a smart career decision because you might piss off some fans in Cleveland and jealous Bulls fans
I've disliked Lebron well before he left Cleveland. It has nothing to do with him not going to the Bulls. I wanted Wade and not Lebron to go to the Bulls because I don't like Lebron even though he is the better player.
2.You can only celebrate if you have won a title. Lebron you cant celebrate after a big bucket but Luke Walton can feel free to do it whenever he wants cause he earned it. O yea Dickie Simpkins earned it as well so dance Dickie Dance!!!!! Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller: I better not see as much as a fist pump out of you losers!!!
How many of them held a championship party before the season started?
3.You can never do a United Way, NBA Charities, Make a donation, or make any public appereances unless of course it only comes from the heart and not for any publicity. Dont even think about giving two million to children because you are obviously only doing it cause your a self centered prima donna who wants spotlight
You honestly think the desision was for the kids? Wow.
4. If you are a star player you have to stay with your team....Or go to the Bulls
Again, this has nothing to do with Lebron not going to the Bulls.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 01:30:34 PM
As I have stated at least two times already in this thread..... I've disliked Lebron well before he left Cleveland.
It has nothing to do with him not going to the Bulls.
I don't disagree with your statements or convictions. I'm wondering how much the dislike would have dissipated if he donned the Bulls uniform
To me it's like watching people get all ginned up about Rodman back in the day. Laker fans hated him.....UNTIL.....he became a Laker. Laker fans hated Karl Malone....UNTIL....he became a Laker. Fans are a funny bunch but that's why they are fans because we all do crazy stuff to justify our convictions.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 01:23:38 PM
BREAKING NEWS
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/122239109.html
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs46/f/2009/193/b/1/Homer_eating_an_ice_cream_by_Terrami.png)
Anybody have still frame of buzz? Hope it's not like costanza on tv during tennis match!
Me crapping on Lebron well before "The Decision"
July 2009
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15158.msg142313#msg142313 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15158.msg142313#msg142313)
December 2009
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=16814.msg164522#msg164522 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=16814.msg164522#msg164522)
November 2009
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=16012.msg155113#msg155113 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=16012.msg155113#msg155113)
March 2009
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=13439.msg120540#msg120540 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=13439.msg120540#msg120540)
August 2008
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9803.msg85818#msg85818 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9803.msg85818#msg85818)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 01:37:04 PM
I don't disagree with your statements or convictions. I'm wondering how much the dislike would have dissipated if he donned the Bulls uniform
If Lebron was a Bull, I would cheer for him, but I would still have all of my complaints about him.
I cheer for Boozer but I can't stand his antics on the court.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 01:42:03 PM
Me crapping on Lebron well before "The Decision"
You're too funny :P
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 19, 2011, 01:12:39 PM
3.You can never do a United Way, NBA Charities, Make a donation, or make any public appereances unless of course it only comes from the heart and not for any publicity. Dont even think about giving two million to children because you are obviously only doing it cause your a self centered prima donna who wants spotlight
Just so we're dealing with facts, LeBron didn't give $2 million to charity that night. He required ESPN, via its advertisers, to pay $2 million (it actually was more) to charity for the rights to broadcast "The Decision."
Though I'm sure the people that money helps could not care less, let's not play that exercise in self-glorification as an act of philanthropy.
Quote from: Rollout-the-Barrel on May 19, 2011, 01:41:39 PM
Anybody have still frame of buzz? Hope it's not like costanza on tv during tennis match!
I'm just amazed this even makes the news in any way, shape or form. Thought the part about the ice cream was an added touch of Are You Kidding Me? Glad no one followed him to the bathroom for more details
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 01:33:52 PM
1.Never make a smart career decision because you might piss off some fans in Cleveland and jealous Bulls fans
I've disliked Lebron well before he left Cleveland. It has nothing to do with him not going to the Bulls. I wanted Wade and not Lebron to go to the Bulls because I don't like Lebron even though he is the better player.
2.You can only celebrate if you have won a title. Lebron you cant celebrate after a big bucket but Luke Walton can feel free to do it whenever he wants cause he earned it. O yea Dickie Simpkins earned it as well so dance Dickie Dance!!!!! Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller: I better not see as much as a fist pump out of you losers!!!
How many of them held a championship party before the season started?
3.You can never do a United Way, NBA Charities, Make a donation, or make any public appereances unless of course it only comes from the heart and not for any publicity. Dont even think about giving two million to children because you are obviously only doing it cause your a self centered prima donna who wants spotlight
You honestly think the desision was for the kids? Wow.
4. If you are a star player you have to stay with your team....Or go to the Bulls
Again, this has nothing to do with Lebron not going to the Bulls.
When did the Heat throw a "championship party"
They threw a welcome Lebron rally.
The Heat will 4 titles before all is said and down. They won win won this year though. But if the Bulls dont beat them this year they will not beat them for years to come.
Quote from: Rollout-the-Barrel on May 19, 2011, 01:41:39 PM
Anybody have still frame of buzz? Hope it's not like costanza on tv during tennis match!
No still frame, but I saw it. Kind of a "nothing to see here" moment. He was standing in the background, turned away from the camera munching on an ice cream cone and talking with some guy.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 02:13:17 PM
I'm just amazed this even makes the news in any way, shape or form. Thought the part about the ice cream was an added touch of Are You Kidding Me? Glad no one followed him to the bathroom for more details
No frame, but here is the video. Thanks Ruby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTH5r5YkuMg&feature=youtu.be
This will feel like the late 70's as a Brewer fan. I have never suffered so much as watching the Yankees win all the time. It would be nice if team BronBron never won, but, eh.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 01:45:25 PM
If Lebron was a Bull, I would cheer for him, but I would still have all of my complaints about him.
I cheer for Boozer but I can't stand his antics on the court.
I thought about this for a second, but then I realized that I absolutely love the Cubs but severely dislike Soriano. I cheer and get amped when he hits a homer, but I still am not a huge fan. I feel Lebron would be the same way if he played for "my team".
In other news, I'm beginning to thinking KenoshaWarrior may actually be Gloria James.
Quote from: JimmyB! on May 19, 2011, 01:06:17 PM
Then why do they even play bibby? He is clearly does more harm than good out there.
For the life of me, I have no idea. I was a little ticked when he hit a three early because I knew 3-4 more attempts would be coming. And yes I realize they need scoring from other sources on the perimeter, but that is why they have guys like James Jones and Mike Miller; I would even prefer Chalmers to get some of Bibby's minutes. (Although he was craptastic last night.)
Quote from: reinko on May 19, 2011, 02:30:06 PM
No frame, but here is the video. Thanks Ruby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTH5r5YkuMg&feature=youtu.be
He purposely prostituted himself to be behind the camera and get maximum exposure for himself. Buzz Cam
(http://50.22.1.75/~cuecamsc/kabzcam.jpg)
Quote from: ringout on May 19, 2011, 02:56:17 PM
This will feel like the late 70's as a Brewer fan. I have never suffered so much as watching the Yankees win all the time. It would be nice if team BronBron never won, but, eh.
As long as Dwade is one of the dynamic duo of that team, as MU fans I fail to see the downside AT ALL
Quote from: JWags85 on May 19, 2011, 03:00:07 PM
I thought about this for a second, but then I realized that I absolutely love the Cubs but severely dislike Soriano. I cheer and get amped when he hits a homer, but I still am not a huge fan. I feel Lebron would be the same way if he played for "my team".
In other news, I'm beginning to thinking KenoshaWarrior may actually be Gloria James.
Baseball seems a bit different to me. 25 guys on a roster...40 late in the year. 162 games, plenty of times to make mistakes as the goat or be a hero later. There are guys on the Angels that I would eject in a nanosecond because they're tools and they suck...Fernando Rodney with his stupid cocked hat and ridiculous pitching performances.
In basketball, with only 5 guys on the court and really only 8 or 9 playing, the focus on the individual is much greater. It's easy to hate a guy or several guys on an NFL team or MLB team without much overall effect on the perception of the team. Pretty hard to do that in hoops because one guy can be so instrumental to the team's success.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 19, 2011, 12:53:57 AM
1. I thought one of the things you hated about the NBA was that some teams can routinely stockpile All Star players. 2. You say he joined forces with players nearly his equal. Player, yes. Players, not even close.
1) Go back and read exactly what I said on that subject of stockpiling
2) Players? Please elaborate. At the end of the day they added two all-stars. One is a great player (arguably the best in the league, though he finished 5th in the MVP voting...snicker snicker) and the other is an All-Star but Bosch is not the same category.
Are you suggesting that other teams have not been able to add PLAYERS in the past but only a player? I'd like clarification of what you mean before I respond.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 19, 2011, 06:06:42 AM
There are much younger men in the NBA who handle themselves like adults. Lebron has been in the league 8 years. When will he finally grow up?
I don't dislike the Heat. They are my second favorite team. What I dislike is Lebron James.
I find him to be more mature than most players in the NBA. He also has every camera, every news media outlet covering his every breath, fart, piss, etc looking to report a screwup or waft of odor from a burp.
I guess I don't find it entirely out of character that a guy who has been deemed a demi God by people since he was 9 years old, showered with praise, gifts, etc doesn't have it 100% together. That being said, he has it more together than a lot of guys in the NBA that have much less pressures than James does.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 19, 2011, 03:00:07 PM
I thought about this for a second, but then I realized that I absolutely love the Cubs but severely dislike Soriano. I cheer and get amped when he hits a homer, but I still am not a huge fan. I feel Lebron would be the same way if he played for "my team".
In other news, I'm beginning to thinking KenoshaWarrior may actually be Gloria James.
Nope just a Lebron defender.
I find it hysterical that no body bashed Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, or Kevin Garnett getting together. But when Lebron, Wade, and Bosh do the same thing than it's "He doesnt want to be the man"
"He turned his back on Cleveland" "Lebron is a glory hog"
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 19, 2011, 03:56:48 PM
Nope just a Lebron defender.
I find it hysterical that no body bashed Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, or Kevin Garnett getting together. But when Lebron, Wade, and Bosh do the same thing than it's "He doesnt want to be the man"
"He turned his back on Cleveland" "Lebron is a glory hog"
Hmmm ... I was under the impression that Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett were traded to Boston rather than holding an elaborate hourlong television special to announce their "Decision" to go there.
Thanks for setting the record straight.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 19, 2011, 07:54:13 AM
Like D Wade?
Nah...a lot of good from Illinois, lots of good peeps, too.
I was thinking more like B.O., Rahm, orange cones, Governors, Oprah, etc
This book of 303 reasons might be more thorough, but dated due to it's 1997 publication.
http://www.amazon.com/Hate-Illinois-Reasons-Should-Hate/dp/1575870312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305839583&sr=8-1
For completeness, I'd say the list here in California is probably 3X bigger
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 04:14:37 PM
For completeness, I'd say the list here in California is probably 3X bigger
I was going to say ... you're in no position to mock anyone else's governors.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 03:21:03 PM
As long as Dwade is one of the dynamic duo of that team, as MU fans I fail to see the downside AT ALL
Because it won't be about Wade. It will be a coronation of Lebron as God's Gift to basketball. It took Lebron shrinking away at the end of the season while Wade would go into beast mode for people to realize that while Lebron may be the best player in the league, Wade is the leader of this team. But now that Lebron is playing better, thats changing again, back to adulation.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 03:33:41 PM
I find him to be more mature than most players in the NBA. He also has every camera, every news media outlet covering his every breath, fart, piss, etc looking to report a screwup or waft of odor from a burp.
I guess I don't find it entirely out of character that a guy who has been deemed a demi God by people since he was 9 years old, showered with praise, gifts, etc doesn't have it 100% together. That being said, he has it more together than a lot of guys in the NBA that have much less pressures than James does.
I went to college in Ohio during the Lebron fever's peak and all I heard was how humble he was, what an amazing guy, not cocky, etc... From fans, from the media, it was Tebow-esque. I personally always thought he was a cocky jackass. And while being compared to douchebags like Arenas or Stephen Jackson may end up in Lebron's favor, I feel he doesn't register in the upper echelon of likable athletes when the media isn't stuffing that perception down our throats. I mean, he was a complete hypocrite his entire time in Cleveland. It was "his city", he always loved the people and the Cavs, yet growing up he was a Knicks, Yankees, and Cowboys fan. If he had just projected himself as a mercenary who wanted to win, like he was, I think everything would have been easier to deal with.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 19, 2011, 03:56:48 PM
Nope just a Lebron defender.
I find it hysterical that no body bashed Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, or Kevin Garnett getting together. But when Lebron, Wade, and Bosh do the same thing than it's "He doesnt want to be the man"
"He turned his back on Cleveland" "Lebron is a glory hog"
Exactly....this is why I want to understand what Lenny means when he seems to imply multiple players doing this is unheard of....or "not even close" to use his verbiage. Maybe I'm misreading his statement, but players have done this all the time and typically do it for the same teams but largely at the end of their career. The old "rent a player for a ring" concept when said star decides money doesn't mean as much and wants the brass prize. The difference with Lebron is that he did this during the peak of his career and not at the end...I find that rather refreshing. He gave up a lot of the "I'm the man" attitude that so many NBA players have and is willing to share the limelight.
I feel bad for Cleveland, my family is from there and they were very bummed as the city has been on the short end of the stick for decades on the sports front.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 19, 2011, 01:12:39 PM
Rules of the NBA according to tall-titan
1.Never make a smart career decision because you might piss off some fans in Cleveland and jealous Bulls fans
2.You can only celebrate if you have won a title.
Lebron you cant celebrate after a big bucket but Luke Walton can feel free to do it whenever he wants cause he earned it. O yea Dickie Simpkins earned it as well so dance Dickie Dance!!!!! Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller: I better not see as much as a fist pump out of you losers!!!
3.You can never do a United Way, NBA Charities, Make a donation, or make any public appereances unless of course it only comes from the heart and not for any publicity. Dont even think about giving two million to children because you are obviously only doing it cause your a self centered prima donna who wants spotlight
4. If you are a star player you have to stay with your team....Or go to the Bulls
Wow you are pretty ridiculous with this crap. Also the KG, Allen, Pierce situation was completely different. The 3 of them didn't sign as free agents together. Apples and oranges.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 19, 2011, 04:33:29 PM
Because it won't be about Wade. It will be a coronation of Lebron as God's Gift to basketball. It took Lebron shrinking away at the end of the season while Wade would go into beast mode for people to realize that while Lebron may be the best player in the league, Wade is the leader of this team. But now that Lebron is playing better, thats changing again, back to adulation.
Disagree. At least out here on the west coast, Dwade gets every bit the billing on the Heat that James does.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 19, 2011, 05:10:57 PM
Wow you are pretty ridiculous with this crap. Also the KG, Allen, Pierce situation was completely different. The 3 of them didn't sign as free agents together. Apples and oranges.
What does the timing of them signing together have to do with anything? It's ok to stack talent as long as it's year after year after year, but not ok if 2 guys do it in the same year? Huh?
Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2011, 04:21:57 PM
I was going to say ... you're in no position to mock anyone else's governors.
Ours are just complete dicks....yours generally are just prisoners in waiting
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 19, 2011, 12:11:37 PM
"...most of the people you hate??"
Jeez, I can probably count the number of people I "hate" on one hand. I that is generally set aside for terrorist masterminds or the like.
Well la di da. You should be the saint of south wayne. There aren't any athletes you would say you hate? Cmon.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2011, 12:16:42 AM
What does the timing of them signing together have to do with anything? It's ok to stack talent as long as it's year after year after year, but not ok if 2 guys do it in the same year? Huh?
No its not the timing, its the circumstance. They weren't free agents that all conspired to sign together in one place. Allen and KG were trades. Not free agent signings. And they did all arrive the same year ( not pierce, he has been with boston quite a while), just so you know.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2011, 04:43:00 PM
Exactly....this is why I want to understand what Lenny means when he seems to imply multiple players doing this is unheard of....or "not even close" to use his verbiage. Maybe I'm misreading his statement, but players have done this all the time and typically do it for the same teams but largely at the end of their career.
No big deal, but you are misreading my statement. Previously you stated that Lebron had "joined forces with PLAYERS nearly his equal". I was merely pointing out that only one player (Wade) fits the description of being nearly his equal. Bosh isn't even close IMO.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 20, 2011, 09:03:11 AM
Well la di da. You should be the saint of south wayne. There aren't any athletes you would say you hate? Cmon.
No....can't think of one. Why would I "hate" an athlete?
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 20, 2011, 09:05:43 AM
No its not the timing, its the circumstance. They weren't free agents that all conspired to sign together in one place. Allen and KG were trades. Not free agent signings. And they did all arrive the same year ( not pierce, he has been with boston quite a while), just so you know.
Allen and Garnett forced their trades.
What's worse: holding an organization hostage or leaving an organization as a free agent?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 20, 2011, 09:34:31 AM
No....can't think of one. Why would I "hate" an athlete?
You're talking literal hate. Buckchuckler is speaking figuratively
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 20, 2011, 10:44:17 AM
You're talking literal hate. Buckchuckler is speaking figuratively
I literally hate lima beans.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 20, 2011, 09:05:43 AM
No its not the timing, its the circumstance. They weren't free agents that all conspired to sign together in one place. Allen and KG were trades. Not free agent signings. And they did all arrive the same year ( not pierce, he has been with boston quite a while), just so you know.
So what? To really good players got together and said they want to join another good player to win some championships? Sounds ok to me
Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 20, 2011, 10:51:40 AM
I literally hate lima beans.
Is there someone on the planet that enjoys lima beans or brussel sprouts for that matter?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2011, 08:06:05 PM
Is there someone on the planet that enjoys lima beans or brussel sprouts for that matter?
Not to be a contrarian, but I love both... haha.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2011, 08:06:05 PM
Is there someone on the planet that enjoys lima beans or brussel sprouts for that matter?
I'm down with brussel sprouts. 'Cept they give me gas.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2011, 08:06:05 PM
Is there someone on the planet that enjoys lima beans or brussel sprouts for that matter?
I liked lima beans as a kid, haven't had them in years. Brussel sprouts, when made right, are fantastic. I'm a fan of the sprout.
Technically both Bosh and LeBron were traded to Miami and did not sign as free agents.
The apples and oranges are looking a lot more alike.
Cleveland received four draft picks (2 #1's, 2 #2's) and Toronto receives the #5 overall pick this year (ironically their own they had traded to Miami in the Shawn Marion deal) and another future first round pick.
Ridiculous! I cannot believe this thread turned into another Lima/Sprouts pissing match!
Quote from: marqptm on May 21, 2011, 10:22:25 AM
Ridiculous! I cannot believe this thread turned into another Lima/Sprouts pissing match!
I don't know what's worse: The people constantly arguing about beans and sprouts, or the people complaining about the arguing about beans and sprouts?!
I think you're all just anti-vegites.
The little brother of the big 3 had his coming out party last night!
This is kind of how I envisioned this series to go, if Rose isn't on, Chicago is nothing.
It will be very hard for the Bulls to shut down all 3 of the Big 3.
Go Heat!
Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 21, 2011, 11:16:59 AM
I don't know what's worse: The people constantly arguing about beans and sprouts, or the people complaining about the arguing about beans and sprouts?!
I think you're all just anti-vegites.
You're making this board unreadable!
Quote from: marqptm on May 23, 2011, 10:24:54 AM
You're making this board unreadable!
Mods, can we create a dedicated thread or board for all the beans and sprouts conversations?
"garbanzo beans"
I'd take a quirky lima bean over a tanned sprout any day!
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on May 23, 2011, 09:29:31 AM
The little brother of the big 3 had his coming out party last night!
This is kind of how I envisioned this series to go, if Rose isn't on, Chicago is nothing.
It will be very hard for the Bulls to shut down all 3 of the Big 3.
Go Heat!
The Bulls' biggest issue is that their scorers can't defend and their defenders can't score. They have significantly more depth than Miami but they've been unable to use that to their advantage.
Bosh is closer to being part of the "bunch of other guys" on the Heat than he is to being comparable to The Big 2.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 23, 2011, 11:28:03 AM
The Bulls' biggest issue is that their scorers can't defend and their defenders can't score. They have significantly more depth than Miami but they've been unable to use that to their advantage.
Bosh is closer to being part of the "bunch of other guys" on the Heat than he is to being comparable to The Big 2.
I am starting to think this series will go the distance. Thibs has proven too good a coach this year for me to think the Heat will make it this easy for two more games. The media hype in this series has been more kneejerk than I remember in almost any other series. Game one, the Bulls dominate and everyone says "Game 2 will decide it". After game two, Miami has all the momentum, and now after they go up 2-1, the Bulls are finished. If the Bulls win game four, will that seal Miami's fate? You'd think so from the media coverage.
I can't see Rose having a third straight bad game, but the Bulls need to adjust to Miami. The injury to Asik could be a positive as it will give more minutes to Kurt Thomas, who can hit the short jumpers that no one on Chicago seems to be hitting right now. I could see him having an impact on game 4 similar to the impact Haslem had in game 2. Defensively, you won't take everything away, but I think more minutes for Thomas and Gibson would equal a Bulls win. How does Taj go 5/6 from the field and only get 12 minutes? Was Boozer putting up miss after miss (and in the process boosting his O-rebounding numbers) really that great for Thibs to watch?
20-22 minutes of Taj Gibson, 15 minutes of Thomas (and some hard fouls from him), a little less Boozer, and a little more Rose-like Rose and the Bulls will win game 4. And of course, that will spell the end for Miami. Definitely think this will go 7.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 23, 2011, 02:15:53 PM
Definitely think this will go 7.
Not sure about it going 7. The Bulls never looked like, or to me felt like, they were ever in a position to win last night. Rose had serious issues with the double team, especially when it was Bosh and James. So, maybe stop using the pick and roll?
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 23, 2011, 02:15:53 PM
I am starting to think this series will go the distance. Thibs has proven too good a coach this year for me to think the Heat will make it this easy for two more games. The media hype in this series has been more kneejerk than I remember in almost any other series. Game one, the Bulls dominate and everyone says "Game 2 will decide it". After game two, Miami has all the momentum, and now after they go up 2-1, the Bulls are finished. If the Bulls win game four, will that seal Miami's fate? You'd think so from the media coverage.
I can't see Rose having a third straight bad game, but the Bulls need to adjust to Miami. The injury to Asik could be a positive as it will give more minutes to Kurt Thomas, who can hit the short jumpers that no one on Chicago seems to be hitting right now. I could see him having an impact on game 4 similar to the impact Haslem had in game 2. Defensively, you won't take everything away, but I think more minutes for Thomas and Gibson would equal a Bulls win. How does Taj go 5/6 from the field and only get 12 minutes? Was Boozer putting up miss after miss (and in the process boosting his O-rebounding numbers) really that great for Thibs to watch?
20-22 minutes of Taj Gibson, 15 minutes of Thomas (and some hard fouls from him), a little less Boozer, and a little more Rose-like Rose and the Bulls will win game 4. And of course, that will spell the end for Miami. Definitely think this will go 7.
IMO, the Bulls are in serious trouble if they are relying on Kurt Thomas for 15 minutes of anything.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 23, 2011, 03:42:35 PMIMO, the Bulls are in serious trouble if they are relying on Kurt Thomas for 15 minutes of anything.
People would have said the same about Haslem coming off the bench in game 2. No one expected he would play a productive 23 minutes. Thomas can hit the close jumper and is a solid, physical defender. He's not flashy, but the things he does well are things the Bulls need right now. Don't mistake the non-sexy name for not being potentially effective.
How old is Kurt Thomas and when was the last time he logged major minutes? Udonis would be a starter or 6 man for the Heat all season if healthy. If you are taking min from Boozer, give them to Gibson.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 23, 2011, 05:36:40 PM
People would have said the same about Haslem coming off the bench in game 2. No one expected he would play a productive 23 minutes. Thomas can hit the close jumper and is a solid, physical defender. He's not flashy, but the things he does well are things the Bulls need right now. Don't mistake the non-sexy name for not being potentially effective.
That isn't true.
Haslem has been a cornerstone player for Miami in terms of knock down 15 footers, nearly 10 rebounds a game, and flat out hustle the last five seasons. Wade wouldn't play without him. Took less money to stay in Miami. They envisioned all along his role being one of production. He's a prime piece after the first three. He seems to have found his feet just at the right time.
The difference is Haslem is coming off an injury and needed time to feel a rythym whereas Kurt Thomas' best days were in the ABA. At this point in Thomas' career, they don't belong in the same conversation.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 23, 2011, 08:27:04 PM
That isn't true.
Haslem has been a cornerstone player for Miami in terms of knock down 15 footers, nearly 10 rebounds a game, and flat out hustle the last five seasons. Wade wouldn't play without him. Took less money to stay in Miami. They envisioned all along his role being one of production. He's a prime piece after the first three. He seems to have found his feet just at the right time.
The difference is Haslem is coming off an injury and needed time to feel a rythym whereas Kurt Thomas' best days were in the ABA. At this point in Thomas' career, they don't belong in the same conversation.
Agree completely. Well said.
Quote from: socrplar125 on May 23, 2011, 02:24:13 PM
Not sure about it going 7. The Bulls never looked like, or to me felt like, they were ever in a position to win last night. Rose had serious issues with the double team, especially when it was Bosh and James. So, maybe stop using the pick and roll?
It was a 4 point game for most of the 4th quarter and they were never in a position to win? Nice cheese-colored glasses you have there.
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 23, 2011, 10:25:18 PM
It was a 4 point game for most of the 4th quarter and they were never in a position to win? Nice cheese-colored glasses you have there.
It's funny to see the north side alum torn between the idea one of the best ballers in MU history up against their hometown bulls. Anyone who doesn't hate the Heat and is on this board must be some idiot from Wisconsin.
I'll take being a cheesehead over a FIB any day. oh the places we could take this thread... super bowl champs, I-94 packed all summer with folks driving up to vacation here, bandwagon chicago fans, etc. etc.
Don't blame me for bringing it up - you brought the cheese into it....
Wow, I was totally owned!
GBMU? Have you ever lived outside Wisconsin?
Sports: Stanly Cup, White sox World Championship, 6 NBA titles, a football team that actually plays in our city, 3 wolves champion ships, amazingly hot girls in cubs baby-T's, one chicago fire title, getting to watch a subway series every year.
Non sports: world class orchestra playing for free every week, international tourist destination(congrats that some of us drive there to hang out for a long weekend), 2nd best art museum in the country, best indoor aquarium in the country, best cold weather lake front in the country, ethnic neighborhoods that you can't find anywhere else(greek town, Ukrainian village, little Italy, chinatown, little poland, pilson), best sky scraper architecture in the world, best comedy club scene in America, great blues/jazz bars, indi music, great theater, clubs, and the pizza...
This is coming from someone who talks up Milwaukee on a regular basis (probably more than almost anyone you know, due to work) and actively recruits kids to MU. You sound like another SAWBUP (Sexually Active, Wisconsinite, Born to Unmarried Parents) who doesn't really know about anthing outside of your snow globe.
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 24, 2011, 06:27:49 AM
Wow, I was totally owned!
GBMU? Have you ever lived outside Wisconsin?
Sports: Stanly Cup, White sox World Championship, 6 NBA titles, a football team that actually plays in our city, 3 wolves champion ships, amazingly hot girls in cubs baby-T's, one chicago fire title, getting to watch a subway series every year.
Non sports: world class orchestra playing for free every week, international tourist destination(congrats that some of us drive there to hang out for a long weekend), 2nd best art museum in the country, best indoor aquarium in the country, best cold weather lake front in the country, ethnic neighborhoods that you can't find anywhere else(greek town, Ukrainian village, little Italy, chinatown, little poland, pilson), best sky scraper architecture in the world, best comedy club scene in America, great blues/jazz bars, indi music, great theater, clubs, and the pizza...
This is coming from someone who talks up Milwaukee on a regular basis (probably more than almost anyone you know, due to work) and actively recruits kids to MU. You sound like another SAWBUP (Sexually Active, Wisconsinite, Born to Unmarried Parents) who doesn't really know about anthing outside of your snow globe.
You had me until the bold.
The Shed is a mediocre aquarium. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that are far nicer (Balitmore's National, Atlanta's, and Chattanooga's).
You can find ethnic neighborhoods in lots of cities. NYC has all of those, SF has more than a few of them...
Sky scraper arcitecture? NYC wins by a landslide... and that ignores Tokyo, since you were talking world.
Comedy Clubs... LA is far and away better than Chi, and NYC is a close second.
As for the music, Chicago will always be third to NYC and LA.
If you are just going to compare Chicago to Milwaukee in those catagories though, Chicago wins everytime... And for the record, GBMU, you sound like a real tool. As a born and raised WI kid, I can say that with full confidence.
But, back to the thread's original topic... I am cheering (like always) for a Chicago loss, and a Wade win.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2011, 06:44:00 AM
You had me until the bold.
The Shed is a mediocre aquarium. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that are far nicer (Balitmore's National, Atlanta's, and Chattanooga's). ?-(... ok aquarium buff. retracted
You can find ethnic neighborhoods in lots of cities. NYC has all of those, SF has more than a few of them... Chicago ethnic hoods are the reason we are known as the most diverse and segregated city in the world. There are still places where you can get by speaking nothing but Polish. NY has places that are still called those names but are now filled with hipsters, while the mom and pop ethnic restaurants have been driven out and replaced with coffee shops. In many ways i think that SF is a lot like chicago, except built on top of sand, covering a fault line.
Sky scraper architecture? NYC wins by a landslide... and that ignores Tokyo, since you were talking world.hell no. First NY has no set back rule so all the buildings look like they are on top of each other. 2ND they were built in a much shorter time frame so there is less variation in style. Have you done architecture tours in both cities? Do the river cruise that is run by the Chicago architectural society.
Comedy Clubs... LA is far and away better than Chi, and NYC is a close second. I guess I was thinking improv, not stand up.
As for the music, Chicago will always be third to NYC and LA.I don't think i said that they weren't, but I know people from LA who would disagree with you.
If you are just going to compare Chicago to Milwaukee in those categories though, Chicago wins everytime... And for the record, GBMU, you sound like a real tool. As a born and raised WI kid, I can say that with full confidence.
But, back to the thread's original topic... I am cheering (like always) for a Chicago loss, and a Wade win.
YES. What a breath of fresh air. Instead of a Buzz v. Crean thread, we have a WI v. Chicago thread in the works.
Rawdog and GBMU, thank you please keep it up. Mods, please don't lock... I am looking forward to checking back in the afternoon to see where this thread has gone.
CAN'T WAIT!- Bart Scott
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 23, 2011, 10:25:18 PM
It was a 4 point game for most of the 4th quarter and they were never in a position to win? Nice cheese-colored glasses you have there.
Most of the 4th quarter doesn't count the last 5-7 minutes when the Heat put the Bulls to sleep. If he's wearing cheese-colored glasses then so is most of ESPN's basketball staff.
On behalf of Wisconsinites everywhere, take your comments to the pissing thread GBMU
and wow Rawdog, that was some pent up aggression man!
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2011, 06:44:00 AM
Sky scraper arcitecture? NYC wins by a landslide... and that ignores Tokyo, since you were talking world.
Completely off topic but....
Chicago architecture has it's own style called the Chicago School. There is no New York School.
I believe whoever wins tonight's game (Game 4) will win the series.
My God, is this thread a piece of crap.
It looks as though Miami is proving to be a very tough match up for Chicago. For all the talk of the Bulls superior depth, it hasn't really been there (Kyle Korver should not see a minute the rest of this series). The Heat's top 3 has been better than the Bulls top 3, and I don't really see that changing significantly over the course of the series. They have been plenty inconsistent all year, but I'll be a bit surprised if the Heat doesn't win.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 24, 2011, 11:55:01 AM
Completely off topic but....
Chicago architecture has it's own style called the Chicago School. There is no New York School.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_School
Quotet looks as though Miami is proving to be a very tough match up for Chicago. For all the talk of the Bulls superior depth, it hasn't really been there (Kyle Korver should not see a minute the rest of this series). The Heat's top 3 has been better than the Bulls top 3, and I don't really see that changing significantly over the course of the series. They have been plenty inconsistent all year, but I'll be a bit surprised if the Heat doesn't win.
I agree completely....korver seems like such a liability even if he is hitting his shots.
I agree with TT, if Chicago can't win in Miami once in these first two it is about as close to over as it can get.
should be entertaining tonight!
I hope we get a wade crazy game-were due for one!
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 24, 2011, 06:27:49 AM
Wow, I was totally owned!
GBMU? Have you ever lived outside Wisconsin?
Sports: Stanly Cup, White sox World Championship, 6 NBA titles, a football team that actually plays in our city, 3 wolves champion ships, amazingly hot girls in cubs baby-T's, one chicago fire title, getting to watch a subway series every year.
Non sports: world class orchestra playing for free every week, international tourist destination(congrats that some of us drive there to... You sound like another SAWBUP (Sexually Active, Wisconsinite, Born to Unmarried Parents) who doesn't really know about anthing outside of your snow globe.
I lived in London... but than again what do I know about culture. SAWBUP? I've never heard of this, but doesn't seem like it has sticking power. I think I'm just a SAW, but that doesn't sound like such a bad thing - parents still happily married after 35+ years, all of this seems relavent though...
I don't recall saying I hate the city of Chicago or that there was a lack of things to do there, but thanks for retyping a Chicago tourism guide. If I need a nice long weekend with mrs. in the big city I'll call you up to plan things out.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on May 24, 2011, 10:21:09 AM
On behalf of Wisconsinites everywhere, take your comments to the pissing thread GBMU
and wow Rawdog, that was some pent up aggression man!
Did it really come off that way? Man, I have to lead MUscoop in being told I sound angry.
Did you notice how I never once said anything negative about Wisconsin. If anyone out there perceives praise of Chicago as an insult to WI... Sure sign of an inferiority complex.
I thought turning FIB into a much less offensive SAWBUP was hilarious. It is amazing how people in Wisconsin are cool with tossing that around casually regardless of their own age or present company. As in: "I may be a little old, church going lady, meeting my grandkids bf for the first time, but I have no problem calling him a f'ing bastard."
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 23, 2011, 10:25:18 PMIt was a 4 point game for most of the 4th quarter and they were never in a position to win? Nice cheese-colored glasses you have there.
The Bulls were in both games they lost and fell to late-game runs. If those runs go the other way, they're up 3-0. This series is still very much alive. That said, if Chicago loses tonight they are all but done.
I find it highly unlikely the Bulls will lose tonight. The NBA knows that this series is going to be their biggest in terms of ratings. I expect the Bulls to have a significant free throw advantage in winning tonight. In the NBA more than any other sport, it seems that these things tend to happen when the league needs them to.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 24, 2011, 12:22:11 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_School
Did you read the article? This has nothing to do with skyscrapers.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 24, 2011, 05:59:03 PM
Did you read the article? This has nothing to do with skyscrapers.
You said "There is no New York School" which would be a lie. Liar.
I think the thing I said earlier on this thread was hilarious too.
DJOs Pump Fake, thank you for appointing yourself to speak on behalf of all Wisconsinites. We were hoping someone would step up and speak for us especially with regards such a statewide divisive issue, i.e. playing into the old tradition of not liking FIBs. I feel like you've brought us all together. One Love, right?
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 24, 2011, 05:50:20 PM
The Bulls were in both games they lost and fell to late-game runs. If those runs go the other way, they're up 3-0. This series is still very much alive. That said, if Chicago loses tonight they are all but done.
I find it highly unlikely the Bulls will lose tonight. The NBA knows that this series is going to be their biggest in terms of ratings. I expect the Bulls to have a significant free throw advantage in winning tonight. In the NBA more than any other sport, it seems that these things tend to happen when the league needs them to.
Wow, you were really wrong.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 24, 2011, 10:34:04 PMWow, you were really wrong.
No doubt. The free throw discrepancy was the only thing that kept the Heat in the game. Stern wants Lebron to get his title and the refs handed the Heat this game. Might as well give them the golden trophy now...if they won't let the Bulls compete with Miami, there's no chance they'll let Mark Cuban's team play with them fairly.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 24, 2011, 10:37:43 PM
No doubt. The free throw discrepancy was the only thing that kept the Heat in the game. Stern wants Lebron to get his title and the refs handed the Heat this game. Might as well give them the golden trophy now...if they won't let the Bulls compete with Miami, there's no chance they'll let Mark Cuban's team play with them fairly.
The bulls also had 22 turnovers, rose running on empty at the end of the game, D wade with some hard nosed D. Questionable calls? Sure, on both sides. But the refs didn't decide that game.
A few hours ago the refs were going to call it for Chicago because Chicago winning is important to the NBA. Now it is that Stern wants Lebron to get a title. Which is it?
Refs were horrible for three and a half quarters, surprisingly pretty good down the stretch. Probably slightly better than average, which is extremely sad.
It's such an annoying league to watch officiated with the absurd continuation calls and the "superstars" getting every single call. It's more of an accepted reality than a controversy at this point.
Quote from: RyanConroy on May 24, 2011, 10:50:19 PM
Refs were horrible for three and a half quarters, surprisingly pretty good down the stretch. Probably slightly better than average, which is extremely sad.
It's such an annoying league to watch officiated with the absurd continuation calls and the "superstars" getting every single call. It's more of an accepted reality than a controversy at this point.
Two felons and two Donaghy high school chums working this game tonight. Hard to take the NBA seriously just on face value.
The King rose to the top tonight///intended play on words.
Wow, Heat are firing now, no one will stop them.
LBJ on D-Rose was like Butler on Kemba or Holloway. Heat can switch up 1-4 or go smaller with 1-5. Versatile team, reminds me of what Buzz is trying for.
Just like LBJ couldn't win in Cleveland, D-Rose needs a better cast to win in Chicago. Korver's got to go, might as well sign Novak. Boozer is disappointing, might test the waters and see if you can get Howard after the lockout.
Quote from: marqptm on May 24, 2011, 11:01:16 PM
Wow, Heat are firing now, no one will stop them.
LBJ on D-Rose was like Butler on Kemba or Holloway. Heat can switch up 1-4 or go smaller with 1-5. Versatile team, reminds me of what Buzz is trying for.
Just like LBJ couldn't win in Cleveland, D-Rose needs a better cast to win in Chicago. Korver's got to go, might as well sign Novak. Boozer is disappointing, might test the waters and see if you can get Howard after the lockout.
spot on marqtm. Going to conspiracy theories is just grasping at straws and trying to justify why what you wanted to happen didn't come to fruition. I was disappointed w/ D-wade's play, but he came up with some momentum changing plays down the stretch, steal, fast break, block, free throws. He was invisible for most of the game but helped LBJ close it out.
#3 is the only reason why I'm pulling for Miami, but even if I did want to hate on them, there is no questioning LeBron's late game play is dominant these playoffs. All the in-season criticism is falling by the wayside while he takes over 4th quarters
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 24, 2011, 10:44:32 PM
A few hours ago the refs were going to call it for Chicago because Chicago winning is important to the NBA. Now it is that Stern wants Lebron to get a title. Which is it?
I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right. That's like saying the refs didn't obviously want the Iverson-led 76ers to beat the Bucks in the Eastern Conference finals years ago when Glenn Robinson didn't go to the line once in game 7.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 25, 2011, 05:38:54 AM
I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right.
Maybe the Bulls, Rose in particular shot a few to many step back 15 foot jumpers. Hard to draw a foul that way.
Yes, it was lopsided(as it has been for Miami all year) and that plus the Bulls TOs kept Miami in the game. But let's not put this all on the officials, Chicago did their part to lose this one.
What isn't about otherwise rational people that turns them into tin-foil hat wearers when it comes to the NBA? People seem to use that excuse to justify anything that happens on the court - just like brewcity does in this thread. If the NBA wanted Lebron to get his title so much, why did they call a (justified) offensive foul on him with 8 seconds to go? NBA officiating can be odd, but it certainly isn't pre-ordained.
And don't use disparity in foul calls as evidence of bias. Miami has two players that constantly attack the basket. Of course they are going to get the calls - aggressive teams generally do.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 25, 2011, 05:38:54 AM
I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right. That's like saying the refs didn't obviously want the Iverson-led 76ers to beat the Bucks in the Eastern Conference finals years ago when Glenn Robinson didn't go to the line once in game 7.
Given your logic, the refs want Marquette to win the NCAA championship, as they almost always shoot a significant more amount of free throws than their opponent. ::)
Wade's 2 OT blocks were just filthy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8UFPd99B0
I will be surprised if the series shifts back to Miami. Heat look unstoppable.
LBJ on rose? ESPN's John Hollinger said it best, very thought provoking:
LeBron outplaying Rose isn't reason enough to question MVP vote. LeBron outplaying Rose and NOBODY BEING SURPRISED, on the other hand ...
11:30 p.m. ET via web Favorite Retweet Reply
John Hollinger
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 25, 2011, 08:12:23 AM
Maybe the Bulls, Rose in particular shot a few to many step back 15 foot jumpers. Hard to draw a foul that way.
Exactly right. I understand Bulls fans don't like/are jealous of LeBron and the Heat, but lets get real. Blaming the officials? Really? If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas. The refs didn't decide that game. The Heat's excellent defense and Chicago's fatigue did. Claiming free throw discrepancy as evidence is one thing, but please show me all of these bad calls, or the calls that weren't made.
It is interesting that the same conspiracy theorist said less than 24 hours ago that the refs would favor the Bulls, but somehow through the course of that game they changed that up and decided that they wanted the Heat to win. Now that is one theory that carries some big time credibility.
Meanwhile, I will repeat what I said before the game because it held true again last night, The Heat's top three (led by the NBA's best player) are better than the Bull's top three, and the Bull's supposed superior depth is providing them nothing. There is not a referee in the world that is going to make that equation work out for the Bulls.
And let me add, that I think Tom Thibodeau is a very good NBA coach. However, I tire of NBA coaches simply giving it to their star player and tell them essentially to "go make a play." I'm sorry, but when LBJ is guarding DRose, RUN A PLAY. Do something to find a mismatch.
To me, the reason that NBA coaches do this is because it's the easy thing to do. It keeps their star happy and it keeps the media questions to a minimum. I mean, if Scottie Pippen can pull himself out of a game that Phil-freakin'-Jackson is coaching, I guess it can happen to anyone.
Quote from: marqptm on May 24, 2011, 11:01:16 PM
Korver's got to go, might as well sign Novak.
The Bulls final roster spot came down to Scalabrini or Novak. It's a damn shame they didn't take Steve.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 25, 2011, 05:38:54 AM
I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right. That's like saying the refs didn't obviously want the Iverson-led 76ers to beat the Bucks in the Eastern Conference finals years ago when Glenn Robinson didn't go to the line once in game 7.
By virtue of being wrong the first time, you're also wrong the second time.
Take off the Second City shades. Miami is a better team than Chicago. It's that simple.
Stole this from Basketbawful...on Chicago's v. Miami's bench last night:
"LeBron (35 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals) was seemingly the consensus Player of the Game, but his plus-minus score was -1. Dwyane Wade's was -10. But check out the borderline absurd plus-minus stats of Miami's reserves: Mike Miller (+36 in 26 minutes), Udonis Haslem (+25 in 34 minutes) and Mario Chalmers (+10 in 21 minutes).
Chicago's reserves? Borderline absurd in the other direction: Taj Gibson (-21 in 10 minutes), Ronnie Brewer (-12 in 21 minutes), C.J. Watson (-12 in seven minutes), Kyle Korver (0 in 16 minutes) and Omer Asik (0 in two minutes)."
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on May 25, 2011, 08:30:11 AM
but please show me all of these bad calls, or the calls that weren't made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4AKFZLE9V8
Miami is easily outplaying Chicago this series. And LBJ is outplaying Rose. During the season, however, those two situations were indeed reversed. The Bulls' offense is not good. Worse than Rose's supporting cast missing open jumpers, is that same supporting cast not taking the open jumper once Rose gets them the ball.
On the plus side, the young talented teams/players are really young in this league... Rose/Durant 22, Harden 21, Westbrook, Griffin, etc. (don't kill me if I don't have the ages exactly)
total fouls for game 4: Miami called for 24 fouls, Chicago called for 28, including two in the final few seconds of a game essentially lost.
That run at the end of the game was just plain dirty.
2 LBJ threes sandwiched around a wade 4 PT play....are you serious?
Hopefully Bosh has shut up old man Boozer now.
Going to be a great finals as wade goes for 2nd ring and dirk vs lebron for 1st ring
I was very surprised at how the Bulls folded down the stretch in this series. As talented as Wade and LeBron are, the Heat are beatable and I thought the Bulls, being more of a "team," would be able to outlast them. Unfortunately, when the opposition is able to take away your superstar and no one else steps up it's nearly impossible to win. It's even more disappointing when you consider that the Bulls have 3 non-superstars making $10M+ per year.
As for the conspiracy theorists out there...I don't think that Stern and the league flat-out rig series. I do, however, believe that there is a strategy to how the officials for each game are decided upon. When the league would prefer that the home team win, they assign historically homer refs to the game. When the league wants the boring, small market Spurs to lose, they assign Joey Crawford to their game, etc. I honestly, truly believe that Stern does everything short of flat-out rigging games to attempt to get the match-ups/winners that would most benefit the league. Often, like with the Bulls-Heat series, he doesn't have to and things work themselves out on their own.
If there was such a strategy, why would they end both series only last five games so that the NBA is off the television on Memorial Day weekend?
The whole premise is silly. Yeah there are bad calls, but I thought the entire series was reffed very well?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 27, 2011, 09:22:29 AM
If there was such a strategy, why would they end both series only last five games so that the NBA is off the television on Memorial Day weekend?
The whole premise is silly. Yeah there are bad calls, but I thought the entire series was reffed very well?
It didn't come into play in these series and it doesn't always work out as planned anyway. Case in point, the Spurs-Pistons Finals a few years ago.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 27, 2011, 09:16:59 AM
I was very surprised at how the Bulls folded down the stretch in this series. As talented as Wade and LeBron are, the Heat are beatable and I thought the Bulls, being more of a "team," would be able to outlast them. Unfortunately, when the opposition is able to take away your superstar and no one else steps up it's nearly impossible to win. It's even more disappointing when you consider that the Bulls have 3 non-superstars making $10M+ per year.
As for the conspiracy theorists out there...I don't think that Stern and the league flat-out rig series. I do, however, believe that there is a strategy to how the officials for each game are decided upon. When the league would prefer that the home team win, they assign historically homer refs to the game. When the league wants the boring, small market Spurs to lose, they assign Joey Crawford to their game, etc. I honestly, truly believe that Stern does everything short of flat-out rigging games to attempt to get the match-ups/winners that would most benefit the league. Often, like with the Bulls-Heat series, he doesn't have to and things work themselves out on their own.
Why is Chicago more of a team then Miami?
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 27, 2011, 09:30:59 AM
Why is Chicago more of a team then Miami?
The Bulls have a better bench, better role players and more depth. The Heat have 2 superstars, an All-Star and a bunch of bodies. The Bulls' 3-12 players are better than the Heat's 3-12. Unfortuately for the Bulls, the Heat's 1-2 were that much better than their 1-2. Not to mention that Miller and Haslem each stepped up for the Heat while Boozer, Deng, Korver, Gibson and Noah didn't step up for the Bulls.
Bottom line is the Bulls don't have a good secondary star. Deng is serviceable, but as a 3rd option, not a 2. Boozer has been a joke, I don't care what little flashes he has. I think that contract is going to comeback to haunt them. Brewer and Bogans are both good defenders, but the Bulls need a 2 who can score, and Korver is not it. I mean, I couldn't believe that in crunch time, Boozer is on the bench. Not that its a bad move, but more that is what the reality of the situation is.
And for people griping about the refs, watch the Bulls last possession. That happened ad naseum in the 4th quarter of the last two games. They had NO offensive plan other than Rose, which the Heat's defense was able to sniff out.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 27, 2011, 09:29:50 AM
It didn't come into play in these series and it doesn't always work out as planned anyway. Case in point, the Spurs-Pistons Finals a few years ago.
OK...so it only comes into play when you think it does. Got it.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 27, 2011, 09:41:30 AM
The Bulls have a better bench, better role players and more depth. The Heat have 2 superstars, an All-Star and a bunch of bodies. The Bulls' 3-12 players are better than the Heat's 3-12.
Last I checked, 1-2 are still on the team. And I am not even sure that 3-12 Bulls are better than 3-12 Miami.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 27, 2011, 09:41:30 AM
The Bulls have a better bench, better role players and more depth. The Heat have 2 superstars, an All-Star and a bunch of bodies. The Bulls' 3-12 players are better than the Heat's 3-12.
In the regular season, maybe, but the playoffs would suggest that there is not much of an appreciable difference of 4-12. Is the Bulls' bench slightly better? Sure, but not to the point to be able to make any sort of difference, as we heard from many Bulls' fans that it would. The simple reality is, in a stars' league, once you get past the top 3-4 guys, nothing else matters.
LeBron>>>>Rose
Wade>>>>>>Deng
Bosh>Boozer
Its that simple. Many Bulls' fans have tried to cling to that greater depth/bunch of bodies argument since LeBron chose the Heat, but this series, and the entirety of the playoffs demonstrated just how over estimated, and ultimately meaningless the difference was.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 27, 2011, 10:03:12 AM
Last I checked, 1-2 are still on the team. And I am not even sure that 3-12 Bulls are better than 3-12 Miami.
I was simply replying to the question as to why I considered the Bulls more of a "team" prior to the series starting. That was my answer. The Bulls had the best record in the NBA, they beat the Heat 3 times during the regular season (albeit once was without LeBron) and dominated Game 1 in the playoffs. I wasn't just saying that through black-and-red colored glasses. I believed that the Bulls had more depth and more quality players 3-12 and that would be the difference. They weren't just relying on 2-3 guys to win. In the end, I was proven wrong and, as it turns out, the Bulls digressed to the point where they were relying on just one player to win.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 27, 2011, 10:02:02 AM
OK...so it only comes into play when you think it does. Got it.
Yep, that's exactly what I said. ::)
I believe that the NBA tries to get the match-ups that they want in the playoffs and Finals. Sometimes things work themselves out naturally, sometimes there's nothing they can do to "save" their teams and occasionally, they try to give a little help to the team that they prefer. You don't have to believe this and you can be as big of an a-hole as you want, but it's not going to change my opinion.
But you offer no proof outside of conjecture. Tinfoilhattery without proof doesn't go far with me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5UrzaOFAJU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://boston.barstoolsports.com/featured/why-was-the-lebron-4-step-travel-not-called-a-travel-last-night/
How many times does Lebron get away with this?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 27, 2011, 11:21:41 AM
But you offer no proof outside of conjecture. Tinfoilhattery without proof doesn't go far with me...
Naively turning a blind eye doesn't go far with me.
Agree to disagree.
A blind eye to *what?* How can I turn a blind eye to something that has no evidence of existing outside of your head?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 27, 2011, 01:32:44 PM
A blind eye to *what?* How can I turn a blind eye to something that has no evidence of existing outside of your head?
Because I'm the only person who believes this, right?
I think everyone can agree that different players, teams, etc seem to have a different set of rules when it comes to fouls. But if the NBA controlled who got to the finals, the Knicks and Lakers would still be playing, and a team owned by Mark Cuban would be watching the finals from home.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 27, 2011, 01:46:00 PM
Because I'm the only person who believes this, right?
People believing it isn't evidence.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 27, 2011, 01:53:12 PM
I think everyone can agree that different players, teams, etc seem to have a different set of rules when it comes to fouls. But if the NBA controlled who got to the finals, the Knicks and Lakers would still be playing, and a team owned by Mark Cuban would be watching the finals from home.
Yes, but I don't think it is nearly as bad as people think. Slow motion many calls and they get a lot right...and a few wrong. But that's life.
How about Scottie Pippen pissing on Chicago's grave after the game.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 27, 2011, 02:35:36 PM
People believing it isn't evidence.
It's evidence that exists outside my head, which you had said it didn't.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 27, 2011, 01:53:12 PM
I think everyone can agree that different players, teams, etc seem to have a different set of rules when it comes to fouls. But if the NBA controlled who got to the finals, the Knicks and Lakers would still be playing, and a team owned by Mark Cuban would be watching the finals from home.
I don't believe that the NBA controls who gets to the Finals. I do believe that they occasionally lend a helping hand to the teams that they'd prefer advance in the playoffs.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 27, 2011, 08:19:24 PM
It's evidence that exists outside my head, which you had said it didn't.
It's not evidence. Anymore than the kooks who thought that Obama was born in Africa had evidence. It just people that people share the same tinfoil hat.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 27, 2011, 08:32:18 PM
It's not evidence. Anymore than the kooks who thought that Obama was born in Africa had evidence. It just people that people share the same tinfoil hat.
You need to come to terms with the fact that sometimes people are going to disagree with you and, no matter how smart you believe yourself to be, your opinion is not always going to be right. After all, it's an
opinion.
In other words...Let it go!
It's funny to read this after the fact. Looks like LeBron may not struggle as much in the playoffs/closing games out as some may think...
Also looking at a couple of those Wade shots, in my opinion these two are his most ridiculous that I can recall (I can recall a couple others that could compete with them, but can't remember when they were from):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF0MO8uvGI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSDuRAMAA5M&feature=related
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 27, 2011, 09:32:36 PM
You need to come to terms with the fact that sometimes people are going to disagree with you and, no matter how smart you believe yourself to be, your opinion is not always going to be right. After all, it's an opinion.
In other words...Let it go!
Calm down dude. If it bothers you so much all you have to do is stop responding.
Game one goes to the HEATLES
anything better than watching wade and lebron in the 4th?
I am convinced after game 2 the series isn't coming back to miami
Go HEat!
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on June 01, 2011, 12:48:41 PM
Game one goes to the HEATLES
anything better than watching wade and lebron in the 4th?
I am convinced after game 2 the series isn't coming back to miami
Go HEat!
For calling them the Heatles.
(http://cbswsoc.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/man-card.jpg?w=385&h=223)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_A2JRAWJd9O0/TSNlmXHSeTI/AAAAAAAABO0/nxt89R6hHlA/s400/the-heatles_design.png)
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 01, 2011, 03:25:09 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_A2JRAWJd9O0/TSNlmXHSeTI/AAAAAAAABO0/nxt89R6hHlA/s400/the-heatles_design.png)
Clearly Mike Miller is the Ringo of the group.
Quote from: reinko on June 01, 2011, 02:38:36 PM
For calling them the Heatles.
(http://cbswsoc.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/man-card.jpg?w=385&h=223)
+1. And I like the Heat (more specifically, Wade).
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26837811
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-wants-you-to-meet-the-quot-Heatles?urn=nba-303417
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on June 02, 2011, 09:39:05 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26837811
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-wants-you-to-meet-the-quot-Heatles?urn=nba-303417
I am not an idiot, I know the nickname. I have cable and the ESPN channel. The name is so beyond clownish it's absurd. And yes, for calling and embracing said nickname for a second time, I have now taken a second card away from you.
(http://cbswsoc.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/man-card.jpg?w=385&h=223)
Quote from: reinko on June 02, 2011, 10:13:06 AM
I am not an idiot, I know the nickname. I have cable and the ESPN channel. The name is so beyond clownish it's absurd. And yes, for calling and embracing said nickname for a second time, I have now taken a second card away from you.
This does have me thinking about The Beastles. It's a DJ mashup of the Beastie Boys + The Beatles that I first heard in Cambridge, MA at a little joint I stumbled across called Phoenix Landing. That was a really good day :)
http://www.youtube.com/v/TJs9MOUNVwU
How many do I get?
Wade looked like the Wade we all loved here last night, constantly attacking the basket, rebounding and even hitting 2 clutch late 3s.
29 pts and 11 rbs.....heat up 2-1 and steal home court back from Mavs.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on June 06, 2011, 10:47:11 AM
Wade looked like the Wade we all loved here last night, constantly attacking the basket, rebounding and even hitting 2 clutch late 3s.
29 pts and 11 rbs.....heat up 2-1 and steal home court back from Mavs.
Looked like a soon to be 2 time finals MVP. Love that he got on 'bron and bosh for defferring to others on open looks.
BTW, the play that Spoelstra drew up to get Bosh that open look was fantastic. Start with Wade on one end...dump to LBJ at the line who likely has an option to drive or dish to a screened for Bosh on the exact opposite end of the floor.
The yelling was great, someone has to be the leader and Wade flourishes in that role.
The play was also pretty good Sultan, I agree, that's why this team is going to be hard to beat for some time.