Wade and Heat

[GBMU]

Wow, Heat are firing now, no one will stop them.

LBJ on D-Rose was like Butler on Kemba or Holloway. Heat can switch up 1-4 or go smaller with 1-5. Versatile team, reminds me of what Buzz is trying for.

Just like LBJ couldn't win in Cleveland, D-Rose needs a better cast to win in Chicago. Korver's got to go, might as well sign Novak. Boozer is disappointing, might test the waters and see if you can get Howard after the lockout.

spot on marqtm.   Going to conspiracy theories is just grasping at straws and trying to justify why what you wanted to happen didn't come to fruition.   I was disappointed w/ D-wade's play, but he came up with some momentum changing plays down the stretch, steal, fast break, block, free throws.   He was invisible for most of the game but helped LBJ close it out.

#3 is the only reason why I'm pulling for Miami, but even if I did want to hate on them, there is no questioning LeBron's late game play is dominant these playoffs.   All the in-season criticism is falling by the wayside while he takes over 4th quarters

[brewcity77]

A few hours ago the refs were going to call it for Chicago because Chicago winning is important to the NBA.  Now it is that Stern wants Lebron to get a title.  Which is it? 

I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right. That's like saying the refs didn't obviously want the Iverson-led 76ers to beat the Bucks in the Eastern Conference finals years ago when Glenn Robinson didn't go to the line once in game 7.

[MU B2002]

I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right.

Maybe the Bulls, Rose in particular shot a few to many step back 15 foot jumpers.  Hard to draw a foul that way.

Yes, it was lopsided(as it has been for Miami all year) and that plus the Bulls TOs kept Miami in the game.  But let's not put this all on the officials, Chicago did their part to lose this one.

[GGGG]

What isn't about otherwise rational people that turns them into tin-foil hat wearers when it comes to the NBA?  People seem to use that excuse to justify anything that happens on the court - just like brewcity does in this thread.  If the NBA wanted Lebron to get his title so much, why did they call a (justified) offensive foul on him with 8 seconds to go?  NBA officiating can be odd, but it certainly isn't pre-ordained.

And don't use disparity in foul calls as evidence of bias.  Miami has two players that constantly attack the basket.  Of course they are going to get the calls - aggressive teams generally do.  

[pbiflyer]

I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right. That's like saying the refs didn't obviously want the Iverson-led 76ers to beat the Bucks in the Eastern Conference finals years ago when Glenn Robinson didn't go to the line once in game 7.

Given your logic, the refs want Marquette to win the NCAA championship, as they almost always shoot a significant more amount of free throws than their opponent. 

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Wade's 2 OT blocks were just filthy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8UFPd99B0

I will be surprised if the series shifts back to Miami.  Heat look unstoppable.

LBJ on rose?  ESPN's John Hollinger said it best, very thought provoking:

LeBron outplaying Rose isn't reason enough to question MVP vote. LeBron outplaying Rose and NOBODY BEING SURPRISED, on the other hand ...

11:30 p.m. ET via web  Favorite  Retweet  Reply
John Hollinger

[NavinRJohnson]

Maybe the Bulls, Rose in particular shot a few to many step back 15 foot jumpers.  Hard to draw a foul that way.

Exactly right. I understand Bulls fans don't like/are jealous of LeBron and the Heat, but lets get real. Blaming the officials? Really? If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas. The refs didn't decide that game. The Heat's excellent defense and Chicago's fatigue did. Claiming free throw discrepancy as evidence is one thing, but please show me all of these bad calls, or the calls that weren't made.

It is interesting that the same conspiracy theorist said less than 24 hours ago that the refs would favor the Bulls, but somehow through the course of that game they changed that up and decided that they wanted the Heat to win. Now that is one theory that carries some big time credibility.

Meanwhile, I will repeat what I said before the game because it held true again last night, The Heat's top three (led by the NBA's best player) are better than the Bull's top three, and the Bull's supposed superior depth is providing them nothing. There is not a referee in the world that is going to make that equation work out for the Bulls.

[GGGG]

And let me add, that I think Tom Thibodeau is a very good NBA coach.  However, I tire of NBA coaches simply giving it to their star player and tell them essentially to "go make a play."  I'm sorry, but when LBJ is guarding DRose, RUN A PLAY.  Do something to find a mismatch.

To me, the reason that NBA coaches do this is because it's the easy thing to do.  It keeps their star happy and it keeps the media questions to a minimum.  I mean, if Scottie Pippen can pull himself out of a game that Phil-freakin'-Jackson is coaching, I guess it can happen to anyone.

[TallTitan34]

Korver's got to go, might as well sign Novak.

The Bulls final roster spot came down to Scalabrini or Novak.  It's a damn shame they didn't take Steve.

[Golden Avalanche]

I was wrong the first time and admitted it. If not for a 32-16 free throw discrepancy going into the final minute, the Heat aren't even in the game. And Rose has 2 free throws in the first three quarters? Right. That's like saying the refs didn't obviously want the Iverson-led 76ers to beat the Bucks in the Eastern Conference finals years ago when Glenn Robinson didn't go to the line once in game 7.

By virtue of being wrong the first time, you're also wrong the second time.

Take off the Second City shades. Miami is a better team than Chicago. It's that simple.

[GGGG]

Stole this from Basketbawful...on Chicago's v. Miami's bench last night:

"LeBron (35 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals) was seemingly the consensus Player of the Game, but his plus-minus score was -1. Dwyane Wade's was -10. But check out the borderline absurd plus-minus stats of Miami's reserves: Mike Miller (+36 in 26 minutes), Udonis Haslem (+25 in 34 minutes) and Mario Chalmers (+10 in 21 minutes).

Chicago's reserves? Borderline absurd in the other direction: Taj Gibson (-21 in 10 minutes), Ronnie Brewer (-12 in 21 minutes), C.J. Watson (-12 in seven minutes), Kyle Korver (0 in 16 minutes) and Omer Asik (0 in two minutes)."

[jesmu84]

but please show me all of these bad calls, or the calls that weren't made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4AKFZLE9V8

Miami is easily outplaying Chicago this series. And LBJ is outplaying Rose. During the season, however, those two situations were indeed reversed. The Bulls' offense is not good. Worse than Rose's supporting cast missing open jumpers, is that same supporting cast not taking the open jumper once Rose gets them the ball.

On the plus side, the young talented teams/players are really young in this league... Rose/Durant 22, Harden 21, Westbrook, Griffin, etc. (don't kill me if I don't have the ages exactly)

[oldwarrior81]

total fouls for game 4:  Miami called for 24 fouls, Chicago called for 28, including two in the final few seconds of a game essentially lost.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

That run at the end of the game was just plain dirty.

2 LBJ threes sandwiched around  a wade 4 PT play....are you serious?

Hopefully Bosh has shut up old man Boozer now.

Going to be a great finals as wade goes for 2nd ring and dirk vs lebron for 1st ring

[MerrittsMustache]

I was very surprised at how the Bulls folded down the stretch in this series. As talented as Wade and LeBron are, the Heat are beatable and I thought the Bulls, being more of a "team," would be able to outlast them. Unfortunately, when the opposition is able to take away your superstar and no one else steps up it's nearly impossible to win. It's even more disappointing when you consider that the Bulls have 3 non-superstars making $10M+ per year.

As for the conspiracy theorists out there...I don't think that Stern and the league flat-out rig series. I do, however, believe that there is a strategy to how the officials for each game are decided upon. When the league would prefer that the home team win, they assign historically homer refs to the game. When the league wants the boring, small market Spurs to lose, they assign Joey Crawford to their game, etc. I honestly, truly believe that Stern does everything short of flat-out rigging games to attempt to get the match-ups/winners that would most benefit the league. Often, like with the Bulls-Heat series, he doesn't have to and things work themselves out on their own.

[GGGG]

If there was such a strategy, why would they end both series only last five games so that the NBA is off the television on Memorial Day weekend? 

The whole premise is silly.  Yeah there are bad calls, but I thought the entire series was reffed very well?

[MerrittsMustache]

If there was such a strategy, why would they end both series only last five games so that the NBA is off the television on Memorial Day weekend? 

The whole premise is silly.  Yeah there are bad calls, but I thought the entire series was reffed very well?

It didn't come into play in these series and it doesn't always work out as planned anyway. Case in point, the Spurs-Pistons Finals a few years ago.

[Golden Avalanche]

I was very surprised at how the Bulls folded down the stretch in this series. As talented as Wade and LeBron are, the Heat are beatable and I thought the Bulls, being more of a "team," would be able to outlast them. Unfortunately, when the opposition is able to take away your superstar and no one else steps up it's nearly impossible to win. It's even more disappointing when you consider that the Bulls have 3 non-superstars making $10M+ per year.

As for the conspiracy theorists out there...I don't think that Stern and the league flat-out rig series. I do, however, believe that there is a strategy to how the officials for each game are decided upon. When the league would prefer that the home team win, they assign historically homer refs to the game. When the league wants the boring, small market Spurs to lose, they assign Joey Crawford to their game, etc. I honestly, truly believe that Stern does everything short of flat-out rigging games to attempt to get the match-ups/winners that would most benefit the league. Often, like with the Bulls-Heat series, he doesn't have to and things work themselves out on their own.

Why is Chicago more of a team then Miami?

[MerrittsMustache]

Why is Chicago more of a team then Miami?

The Bulls have a better bench, better role players and more depth. The Heat have 2 superstars, an All-Star and a bunch of bodies. The Bulls' 3-12 players are better than the Heat's 3-12. Unfortuately for the Bulls, the Heat's 1-2 were that much better than their 1-2. Not to mention that Miller and Haslem each stepped up for the Heat while Boozer, Deng, Korver, Gibson and Noah didn't step up for the Bulls.

[JWags85]

Bottom line is the Bulls don't have a good secondary star.  Deng is serviceable, but as a 3rd option, not a 2.  Boozer has been a joke, I don't care what little flashes he has.  I think that contract is going to comeback to haunt them.  Brewer and Bogans are both good defenders, but the Bulls need a 2 who can score, and Korver is not it.  I mean, I couldn't believe that in crunch time, Boozer is on the bench.  Not that its a bad move, but more that is what the reality of the situation is.

And for people griping about the refs, watch the Bulls last possession.  That happened ad naseum in the 4th quarter of the last two games.  They had NO offensive plan other than Rose, which the Heat's defense was able to sniff out.

[GGGG]

It didn't come into play in these series and it doesn't always work out as planned anyway. Case in point, the Spurs-Pistons Finals a few years ago.

OK...so it only comes into play when you think it does.  Got it.

[GGGG]

The Bulls have a better bench, better role players and more depth. The Heat have 2 superstars, an All-Star and a bunch of bodies. The Bulls' 3-12 players are better than the Heat's 3-12.

Last I checked, 1-2 are still on the team.  And I am not even sure that 3-12 Bulls are better than 3-12 Miami.

[NavinRJohnson]

The Bulls have a better bench, better role players and more depth. The Heat have 2 superstars, an All-Star and a bunch of bodies. The Bulls' 3-12 players are better than the Heat's 3-12.

In the regular season, maybe, but the playoffs would suggest that there is not much of an appreciable difference of 4-12. Is the Bulls' bench slightly better? Sure, but not to the point to be able to make any sort of difference, as we heard from many Bulls' fans that it would. The simple reality is, in a stars' league, once you get past the top 3-4 guys, nothing else matters.

LeBron>>>>Rose
Wade>>>>>>Deng
Bosh>Boozer

Its that simple. Many Bulls' fans have tried to cling to that greater depth/bunch of bodies argument since LeBron chose the Heat, but this series, and the entirety of the playoffs demonstrated just how over estimated, and ultimately meaningless the difference was.

[MerrittsMustache]

Last I checked, 1-2 are still on the team.  And I am not even sure that 3-12 Bulls are better than 3-12 Miami.

I was simply replying to the question as to why I considered the Bulls more of a "team" prior to the series starting. That was my answer. The Bulls had the best record in the NBA, they beat the Heat 3 times during the regular season (albeit once was without LeBron) and dominated Game 1 in the playoffs. I wasn't just saying that through black-and-red colored glasses. I believed that the Bulls had more depth and more quality players 3-12 and that would be the difference. They weren't just relying on 2-3 guys to win. In the end, I was proven wrong and, as it turns out, the Bulls digressed to the point where they were relying on just one player to win.

[MerrittsMustache]

OK...so it only comes into play when you think it does.  Got it.

Yep, that's exactly what I said. 

I believe that the NBA tries to get the match-ups that they want in the playoffs and Finals. Sometimes things work themselves out naturally, sometimes there's nothing they can do to "save" their teams and occasionally, they try to give a little help to the team that they prefer. You don't have to believe this and you can be as big of an a-hole as you want, but it's not going to change my opinion.