Sticking only to numbers, please detail why it would cost $125 million for Marquette to make a return to NCAA football?
My question here does not seek opinions, only numbers. How does it cost $125 million for Marquette to bring back football?
The numbers, please. ...
You started another thread for this? Seriously? Two wasn't enough?
Since I don't work for the AD, I can't provide numbers. Email him and report back the results.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 16, 2010, 08:57:39 PM
You started another thread for this? Seriously? Two wasn't enough?
Since I don't work for the AD, I can't provide numbers. Email him and report back the results.
Thanks for nothing, The Sultan of South Wayne.
I am only seeking numbers here, not opinions or empty efforts at sarcasm or mockery.
Why on Earth would it cost Marquette a supposed $125 million to bring back NCAA football?
Valid numbers only, please. I have real trouble believing it would cost Marquette so much to renew collegiate football.
Those with opinions and cute, tired lines -- but no numbers -- need not reply.
You don't get it. No one is going to have "the numbers." Just estimates and projections. And they are all within the other threads.
If that isn't good enough...email Cottingham.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 16, 2010, 09:05:59 PM
You don't get it. No one is going to have "the numbers." Just estimates and projections. And they are all within the other threads.
If that isn't good enough...email Cottingham.
Thanks for nothing, The Sultan of South Wayne. ...
actually, Sultan gave you the only answer you should have expected on this board.
yikes man, what do you want?
How much does it cost to build a stadium?
To buy the property for a stadium or do you build it on property you own?
If you buy, do you do it away from mke for cheaper property values at the cost of keeping it on campus for students?
What women's sports do you add?
How much do each of those cost?
How would any of these be hard figures?
come on, MU Avenue WANTS the numbers, somebody give him the numbers, please...
sarcasm aside, can the football discussion just go away, it's not going to happen...
Here's some numbers...
Football stadium... $75 million at least
Practice/weight room facilities for 55 new athletes... $___ million
Equipment for football players... $___
Coaches... $2+ million per year
Scholarships... 55 * what is it now, $25,000? = $1.375 million per year * Title IX = $2.75 million per year
Start up 55 scholarships worth of women's sports... $___ million
Facilities and equipment for them... $___ million
Many other expenses that none of us have any clue about... $___ million
There's no way that we could do D1 football without a new stadium and there's no way we could build that for less than $75 million, and really that should be enough to verify it. If that's truly not good enough for you; if you truly need numbers filled in for the blanks to make sure it's $125M + and not just $115M or $105M, then I'm sorry, you're not going to find the verification you need.
Quote from: MU Avenue on September 16, 2010, 08:52:23 PM
Sticking only to numbers, please detail why it would cost $125 million for Marquette to make a return to NCAA football?
My question here does not seek opinions, only numbers. How does it cost $125 million for Marquette to bring back football?
The numbers, please. ...
The numbers???? Why don't you tell us what it will cost because you brought it up!
Quote from: TJ on September 16, 2010, 09:40:46 PM
Here's some numbers...
Football stadium... $75 million at least
Practice/weight room facilities for 55 new athletes... $___ million
Equipment for football players... $___
Coaches... $2+ million per year
Scholarships... 55 * what is it now, $25,000? = $1.375 million per year * Title IX = $2.75 million per year
Start up 55 scholarships worth of women's sports... $___ million
Facilities and equipment for them... $___ million
Many other expenses that none of us have any clue about... $___ million
Respectfully TJ, Coaches for 2 plus million? How about your head coach is 2 million plus if you want one who can do something. Then add the other 7 or 8 asst coaches and coordinators to the pool and the coaching estimate is way off.
The worst Division 1 stadium I have ever been in, the concrete bowl at Fresno State, cost around 7 million dollars to build.
Inflation costs alone bring that number to around 18 million. And Fresno State even had a 10 million dollar renovation in 1991. Throw in renovation costs for that and the total comes to around 35 million. And that stadium is bare essentials, there's no concourse, there's grass seating, very limited press boxes, bad sightlines, horrible audio system and the entire experience is akin to a big high school football game.
Marquette, were it to join Division 1, would safely have to spend around 40 million dollars JUST for the stadium. Just a stadium would not be enough to lure big time coaches or recruits. Not to mention we would need to expand the athletic facility, and potentially have to tear down some buildings near Valley Fields to build an entire new athletic center JUST to house the training facility.
Altogether, it MIGHT cost a little less than 100 million, which is what we paid for the new engineering center.
And even then, we're what? Marquette football? How is that a big enough game to attract college football fans? You think all those fans at Camp Randall are Wisconsin grads? Or any school for that matter? Our biggest fanbase would have to be Midwestern Catholics, especially in the Milwaukee/Chicagoland area, but the vast majority of Midwestern Catholic College Football fans that didn't attend another big time school are die-hard Notre Dame fans. How are we going to possibly get them to go to games? Even if we were to take on this project, the stadium would be damn near empty for at least 5 years, and there's no way we could possibly go straight to Division 1, we would have to start small and play Concordia College and teams like that. How are we going to make up for the investment if we're playing schools no one has ever heard of?
I posted in one of the other threads about a new 30k seat stadium (MAC school size. I am sure that is what we aspire to) that will cost $50 million, and they own the real estate. So start there. Add in the cost of another, larger, AL, as the football program will need there own offices and workout facilities. And a practice field. So, bricks and mortar are $75 million before you find the land to put them on. For MAC level facilities. 55 schollies at $40k, $2.2 million, plus matching for title IX. 88 Schollies = $3.6 mil per year, plus matching. Good coaching, assistants, and support staff......say $3 mil on the cheap, $5 mil for pretty good. I think Cottingham's estimate is pretty good, and probably on the low side.
It might as well be 100 gazillion dollars. It's not happening.
Quote from: MU Avenue on September 16, 2010, 08:52:23 PM
Sticking only to numbers, please detail why it would cost $125 million for Marquette to make a return to NCAA football?
My question here does not seek opinions, only numbers. How does it cost $125 million for Marquette to bring back football?
The numbers, please. ...
First, any numbers provided are technically an estimate, which is really an just opinion about what something will cost... so let's not act like we are dealing in facts.
Second, a better way to facilitate this topic is to present your own itemized list and ask for people to help you with your estimate. There are some smart people around here who could help, and I'm willing to bet that we could come up with a pretty decent estimate based upon the business experience of people on this board (let's face it, the athletic department is really a business (infrastructure, staffing, assets, marketing, etc.).
With this said, MUAVE, what do your numbers look like?
Quote from: 79Warrior on September 16, 2010, 09:51:13 PM
Respectfully TJ, Coaches for 2 plus million? How about your head coach is 2 million plus if you want one who can do something. Then add the other 7 or 8 asst coaches and coordinators to the pool and the coaching estimate is way off.
I almost put 3+, but I was trying not to seem extravagant. Either way, compared to the cost of a stadium, it's relatively insignificant if coaches cost $2M or $4M.
I have the whole operation, including start-up costs and five years of maintenance costs, at $13.74.
I have already pledged $3.14.
isnt there a milwaukee gridiron or iron or something or other amateur or low level professional football league? couldnt we go "halfsies"?
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on September 17, 2010, 10:47:50 AM
isnt there a milwaukee gridiron or iron or something or other amateur or low level professional football league? couldnt we go "halfsies"?
The Iron plays Arena football, not outdoor football.
Mods can we get a dead horse thread area, where we just put topics that have been beaten to a pulp. At least 100 million dollars, plus I like having all cards in on basketball. I don't much care for college football to begin with.
Recently read in WSJ where Bike is raising the price of jockstraps by 50%. ZFB's size has actually come down in price since not much material is needed to fabricate supporters that small.
Quote from: MUCam on September 17, 2010, 10:36:54 AM
I have the whole operation, including start-up costs and five years of maintenance costs, at $13.74.
I have already pledged $3.14.
mmmm, pie.
Maybe if I attach politics, the thread will be killed.
Apply for $100,000,000 in stimulus funds. Is is not fair that UW at Madison has D1 football and Marquette does not. They already get a ton of taxpayer subsidy...Come On Man.....Let's be fair about this.
Ten years ago I personally asked Bill Cords about football and he laughed. Last year I personally asked Cottingham about football and he smirked and said it is NOT going to happen. So this isnt hearsay. It will not happen.
It is simply too expensive and that's before you get to adding the scholarships for womens sports.
Email Cottingham and he'd tell you the same thing. It will never happen. Marquette wants to focus on being competitive in the Big East. Not starting from scratch. So there are philosophical reasons as well that it won't happen.
Quote from: TJ on September 16, 2010, 09:40:46 PM
Here's some numbers...
Football stadium... $75 million at least
Practice/weight room facilities for 55 new athletes... $___ million
Equipment for football players... $___
Coaches... $2+ million per year
Scholarships... 55 * what is it now, $25,000? = $1.375 million per year * Title IX = $2.75 million per year
Start up 55 scholarships worth of women's sports... $___ million
Facilities and equipment for them... $___ million
Many other expenses that none of us have any clue about... $___ million
There's no way that we could do D1 football without a new stadium and there's no way we could build that for less than $75 million, and really that should be enough to verify it. If that's truly not good enough for you; if you truly need numbers filled in for the blanks to make sure it's $125M + and not just $115M or $105M, then I'm sorry, you're not going to find the verification you need.
Maybe we could finance the thing instead of paying off in year 1
Count me in for $19.77
Perhaps MU should award an honorary degree to T. Boone Pickens... :D
Quote from: Nukem2 on September 18, 2010, 01:16:58 PM
Perhaps MU should award an honorary degree to T. Boone Pickens... :D
We have a winner. Lock the thread. Put the plans in motion. :D
Paging MU Avenue. Paging MU Avenue.
Thoughts?
I don't poop without mu avenue's approval.
I am looking for hard-and-fast numbers concerning the cost of renewing NCAA football at Marquette. That is all.
I have heard $100 million. Now I am hearing $125 million. Has anyone actually done the research or are these just loose, convenient guesses?
And to ZiggysFryBoy, please feel free to do whatever you or your body requires without my approval. (Was I supposed to understand your last comment?)
If you are looking for "hard and fast numbers", I have an idea.
Hire a frackin' research team yourself, to do an independent anaylsis. Clearly, a message board is not the research tool that will suffice at all in this matter.
Be gone pal.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2010, 05:37:26 PM
I don't poop without mu avenue's approval.
I always knew you were full of it.
It would only cost $7m a year to finance that $125m.
Lets do it
Quote from: mviale on September 18, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
It would only cost $7m a year to finance that $125m.
Lets do it
With this logic, God how did the USA get $13,474,084,254,213 into debt...
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
/apolitical
Quote from: reinko on September 18, 2010, 08:58:25 PM
If you are looking for "hard and fast numbers", I have an idea.
Hire a frackin' research team yourself, to do an independent anaylsis. Clearly, a message board is not the research tool that will suffice at all in this matter.
Be gone pal.
Thanks for the deep insight and the constructive advice, reinko. You clearly are one of the real thinkers on this site.
Frackin'?
As I have written earlier, I am looking for information from people in the know, not from blowhards who offer only emotional, sarcastic, meaningless tripe.
Frackin'?
My request for information is serious and respectful of the fact that bringing NCAA football back to Marquette would he a huge undertaking.
Frackin'?
If you know nothing about the topic, why enter the discussion?
Frackin'?
Not to go off on a tangent ... but another reason that MU cannot/should not field a football team (among a list of thousands) is that college football is now a regional sport. All the top teams are in the south. All the north has is Ohio State (which would be, what, the fifth best program in the SEC?) and a bunch of delusional fans that think they are competitive.
See the Wisc/ASU game yesterday ... in three weeks Wisc. will no longer be ranked and never had any business being ranked. They simply cannot compete with schools that have good weather in football and never will. Iowa lost to a school with good weather last night ... they're done.
College football has the same geography as NASCAR.
It's called a language filter chief.
And no, I don't have anything of value to add to your discussion, but many posters, including some very respected ones (bma to name one) have opined and made strong guesses about the startup costs, yet you just to continue to belabor the point. Again, if you want some kind detailed report on the matter, MUScoop is not the research entity you need. In stead of relying on others, here is an idea. YOU ACTUALLY LOOK INTO IT, and report back here. People would respect that. Don't rely on others to do this work, you care, put a couple hours into it.
And once again, if you don't want blowhards, stay off the intertubes, talking about crap no one knows about is one of the major reasons it was invented. That and porn.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on September 19, 2010, 08:50:22 AM
Not to go off on a tangent ... but another reason that MU cannot/should not field a football team (among a list of thousands) is that college football is now a regional sport. All the top teams are in the south. All the north has is Ohio State (which would be, what, the fifth best program in the SEC?) and a bunch of delusional fans that think they are competitive.
See the Wisc/ASU game yesterday ... in three weeks Wisc. will no longer be ranked and never had any business being ranked. They simply cannot compete with schools that have good weather in football and never will. Iowa lost to a school with good weather last night ... they're done.
College football has the same geography as NASCAR.
You're nuts. The B10 is just as strong as any conference in the country, and with the addition of Nebraska, gets even stronger. There are basically three good teams in college football this year...Alabama, Ohio State and Boise. The rest are very mediocre.
And I'd really like to hear, outside of Alabama, what SEC schools are better than OSU?
The Big 10 definitely is not as strong as any other conference in the country top to bottom. SEC is certainly the best again, and I would contend that great arguments could be made for the Pac 10 and Big 12 as well. But that doesnt mean that OSU isnt one of the best teams in the country either. (I think they are overrated... again. But its too early for me to give you objective and definitive proof thats the case) Its an overall competitiveness issue
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 19, 2010, 09:09:31 AM
And I'd really like to hear, outside of Alabama, what SEC schools are better than OSU?
Heard is B10 country ever September "You're nuts. The B10 is just as strong as any conference in the country' The problem is this is never heard in November.
Iowa lost to Arizona, they on their way out of the rankings. Wisc played like a team that has no business being ranked yesterday. Michigan should fall out after its pitiful performance against Umass. Nebraska is a B12 team so don't count them until they get into the conference.
The B10 is as overrated in football as ND. It is actually a better bball conference but ranks behind the BE and ACC.
-------
"Outside of Alabama, what Schools are better than OSU?" Here is a list (and remember I said "program" not what team happens to be better after 3 non-conference cupcakes in the 2010 season)
The 12 Most Valuable Teams in NCAA Football
http://www.businesspundit.com/the-12-most-valuable-teams-in-ncaa-football/
1. Texas Longhorns = $119 million
2. Notre Dame Fighting Irish = $108 million
3. Pennsylvania State Nittany Lions = $99 million
4. Nebraska Cornhuskers = $93 million
5. Alabama Crimson Tide = $ 90 million
6. Florida Gators = $88 million
7. Louisiana State Tigers = $68 million
8. Ohio State Buckeyes = $58 million
9. Georgia Bulldogs = $45 million
10. Oklahoma Sooners = $40 million
11. University of Michigan Wolverines
12. South Carolina Gamecocks
For those keeping score at home ... the SEC has 5 teams, the B10 three. According to this list OSU would be fourth in the SEC with Georgia right behind it. I said fifth I'll stand behind it with research to back it up.
In a few years when Nebraska joins the B10, it will have 4 of the top 12 schools. And when Texas and Oklahoma join the SEC, they will have 7. (ND will be the only non B10 or SEC school).
Oh, places that snow that are in the top 12 = 5 (ND, PSU, Neb, OSU and Mich)
... How do you know if you're at a "real" college football game? They think "Junior" is Dale Earnhardt Jr, Not Ken Griffey Jr.
That's a lot of words to not answer the question I asked. I didn't ask for some blogger's perceived "value" of football programs, because how anyone could state that Notre Dame has a better football program than Ohio State simply has a faulty metric.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 19, 2010, 11:47:49 AM
That's a lot of words to not answer the question I asked. I didn't ask for some blogger's perceived "value" of football programs, because how anyone could state that Notre Dame has a better football program than Ohio State simply has a faulty metric.
Better = more value
Yeah but OSU>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ND...by any metric you want to use.
Quote from: MU Avenue on September 19, 2010, 07:35:45 AM
Thanks for the deep insight and the constructive advice, reinko. You clearly are one of the real thinkers on this site.
Frackin'?
As I have written earlier, I am looking for information from people in the know, not from blowhards who offer only emotional, sarcastic, meaningless tripe.
Frackin'?
My request for information is serious and respectful of the fact that bringing NCAA football back to Marquette would he a huge undertaking.
Frackin'?
If you know nothing about the topic, why enter the discussion?
Frackin'?
Again, if you are really interested in this topic, I think that there are well educated people around here who could help you put an estimate together.
But, the original tone of your post and subsequent demands aren't going to endear you to anybody.
If you really want some numbers, put together your estimations/rationale and have people around here review it for you. That would be a good way to start a serious conversation.
Demanding that somebody does your homework for you probably isn't going to work.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on September 19, 2010, 03:14:53 PM
Again, if you are really interested in this topic, I think that there are well educated people around here who could help you put an estimate together.
But, the original tone of your post and subsequent demands aren't going to endear you to anybody.
If you really want some numbers, put together your estimations/rationale and have people around here review it for you. That would be a good way to start a serious conversation.
Demanding that somebody does your homework for you probably isn't going to work.
I have simply asked more than once if anyone here has reliable numbers concerning the cost for Marquette to make a return to NCAA football.
I am not interested in people's opinions or tired attempts at being witty or sarcastic. I only want to know what others know about the true cost.
You have written that "the original tone of your post and subsequent demands aren't going to endear you to anybody."
Endear me? Gosh, thanks for the tip.
I am simply asking others here who have accurate information to share it. I do not recall asking anyone to do my "homework," whatever that means.
Gee, 2002MUalum, do you really think my questions have cost me some of my MUScoop buddies?
Quote from: MU Avenue on September 19, 2010, 04:31:36 PM
I have simply asked more than once if anyone here has reliable numbers concerning the cost for Marquette to make a return to NCAA football.
I am not interested in people's opinions or tired attempts at being witty or sarcastic. I only want to know what others know about the true cost.
You have written that "the original tone of your post and subsequent demands aren't going to endear you to anybody."
Endear me? Gosh, thanks for the tip.
I am simply asking others here who have accurate information to share it. I do not recall asking anyone to do my "homework," whatever that means.
Gee, 2002MUalum, do you really think my questions have cost me some of my MUScoop buddies?
I feel bad that you hate your life so much that you have to behave like this.
Quote from: reinko on September 19, 2010, 04:59:15 PM
I feel bad that you hate your life so much that you have to behave like this.
I simply want to know why people seem to think it would cost Marquette so much -- $125 million or more -- to bring back NCAA football.
Even if $125 million is close to accurate, which I doubt, Marquette would not have to pay the entire tab in one year.
I have no idea why a small faction here, who seem to have no information related to this topic, feel the need to analyze me for asking proper, respectful, pertinent questions.
This reinko fellow has written, "I feel bad that you hate your life so much that you have to behave like this."
Hate my life? Behave like what?
I just want someone with numbers to share them. Other than that, I am not interested in what reinko or others think of me or of the realistic notion that Marquette bring back NCAA football.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 19, 2010, 01:47:23 PM
Yeah but OSU>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ND...by any metric you want to use.
Not true ... I listed one above, you're just having a hard time accepting the truth.
Yes...you linked to a blogger with an opinion. Whoohoooo...
But as I said, any opinion that has Notre Dame a better program than Ohio State is a bad one. If you want to believe bad opinions go right ahead. It wouldn't be your first time.
Quote from: MU Avenue on September 19, 2010, 04:31:36 PM
I have simply asked more than once if anyone here has reliable numbers concerning the cost for Marquette to make a return to NCAA football.
I am not interested in people's opinions or tired attempts at being witty or sarcastic. I only want to know what others know about the true cost.
You have written that "the original tone of your post and subsequent demands aren't going to endear you to anybody."
Endear me? Gosh, thanks for the tip.
I am simply asking others here who have accurate information to share it. I do not recall asking anyone to do my "homework," whatever that means.
Gee, 2002MUalum, do you really think my questions have cost me some of my MUScoop buddies?
Alright, let me be more direct:
Do the work yourself. Don't expect others to do it for you. Nobody owes you anything.
Quote from: MU Avenue on September 19, 2010, 05:31:05 PM
I simply want to know why people seem to think it would cost Marquette so much -- $125 million or more -- to bring back NCAA football.
Even if $125 million is close to accurate, which I doubt, Marquette would not have to pay the entire tab in one year.
I have no idea why a small faction here, who seem to have no information related to this topic, feel the need to analyze me for asking proper, respectful, pertinent questions.
This reinko fellow has written, "I feel bad that you hate your life so much that you have to behave like this."
Hate my life? Behave like what?
I just want someone with numbers to share them. Other than that, I am not interested in what reinko or others think of me or of the realistic notion that Marquette bring back NCAA football.
What part of the partial numbers that were posted above don't you accept? People were trying to give you answers, but something as specific as you're probably looking for just doesn't exist among the membership of this board, if it exists at all.
A stadium, land, and practice facilities is going to cost a ton of money - that's the big ticket to concentrate on in all of this. Since there are literally endless possibilities for how much that could cost, we can't give you an exact estimate. But we gave some other examples and compared them to what our needs would be. To do D1 football right, it seems like the cost starts at around $75M and goes up from there.
Of course, this is still just an educated guess, so what do you think about it?
Quote from: Avenue Commons on September 18, 2010, 06:33:22 AM
Ten years ago I personally asked Bill Cords about football and he laughed. Last year I personally asked Cottingham about football and he smirked and said it is NOT going to happen. So this isnt hearsay. It will not happen.
It is simply too expensive and that's before you get to adding the scholarships for womens sports.
Email Cottingham and he'd tell you the same thing. It will never happen. Marquette wants to focus on being competitive in the Big East. Not starting from scratch. So there are philosophical reasons as well that it won't happen.
[/quot
Sorry for coming to the post late. You can tell its the off season when so many people waste their time writing (and reading...including me) about MU getting football. Never going to happen.
About two years ago, I got invited by a friend to watch an MU game with Fr. Wild for a student promotion deal. I asked Fr. Wild, "So are we getting a football team?" He said, "Not if I have anything to say about it," and laughed in the driest most monotone way. Its not going to happen. Likely they "smirk" or laugh because they find it hiralious that people still ask them all the time...