http://twitter.com/qmillertime/status/22309922306 (http://twitter.com/qmillertime/status/22309922306)
"Yea I just added Marquette to my list"
http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/08/25/miller-wants-to-join-bello-in-college/ (http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/08/25/miller-wants-to-join-bello-in-college/)
"Still [in addition to Louisville], Miller is also considering Baylor, Kentucky, Wake Forest, Kansas, UCLA, Marquette, Duke and Oklahoma."
Hope he and Austin continue to give Marquette some thought.
What is a better name for a Milwaukee area player than Miller.
The tag lines are endless
Wow! Number 2 player in the country on Scout's list for 2011. Stiff competition for his services with the schools listed. That said, I do find it interesting that at this late in the game for 2011 recruiting, we were added to his list. Usually by now these lists are being trimmed, versus added to - so something caught his attention about MU recently. GO BUZZ!!
I know its ESPN, but they have him as the 4th overall and number 1 big man in the country.
Dream world in 2011-2012
Crowder
Miller
Wilson
DJO
Junior/Blue
That is a Final 4 quality team right there.
Even though he says he just added us that's not exactly correct. He's mentioned MU more than once before, though not in quite some time until this week.
Quote from: Ners on August 28, 2010, 12:35:16 PM
That said, I do find it interesting that at this late in the game for 2011 recruiting, we were added to his list. Usually by now these lists are being trimmed, versus added to - so something caught his attention about MU recently. GO BUZZ!!
Yeah, he played with Vander on Team USA and they became friends.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 28, 2010, 01:41:55 PM
I know its ESPN, but they have him as the 4th overall and number 1 big man in the country.
Dream world in 2011-2012
Crowder
Miller
Wilson
DJO
Junior/Blue
That is a Final 4 quality team right there.
Who knows. The biggest problem programs have had with recruiting Miller is that he really wants to go where a program will also accept his teammate, Deuce Bello. Coach K doesnt have a history of being pushed around by 17 year olds. Calipari will will certainly do it...especially if it means saving a couple hundred K to sign him outright. Most think Deuce is a bit of a project at the high D1 level because his value has been inflated playing with Miller.
I'll begrudgingly go along with getting a top 50 wing to go with the top center in the country.
But they better not try to throw a top 30 pf in there too, I don't want to get pushed around by these kids too much.
ESPN has Bello as a 96 rating and the #25 SG in the country, Rivals has him as a 4-star and the #8 SF in the country (though at 6'3", SF is pushing it). Either way, if we get a top-5 prospect, I think we can easily find room for a 4-star, even if his rating is a bit overinflated.
I agree^^^
We would be incredibly deep already
Crowder/Gardner
Miller/Williams
Wilson/Jones
DJO/Blue
Junior/Smith
I would be totally ok with giving the 11th spot to his friend.
Scout has him as the #8 SF. rivals has Duece Bello as the #11 sg, 43rd player in the nation overall.
this is great! only bummer is this guy is probably a 1 and done. but great to see that MU can get mentioned with the elites.
Quote from: Stone Cold on August 28, 2010, 02:38:37 PM
I'll begrudgingly go along with getting a top 50 wing to go with the top center in the country.
But they better not try to throw a top 30 pf in there too, I don't want to get pushed around by these kids too much.
Stone - I am literally LOL :) TY!
Never said taking on the added "baggage" isnt worth signing Miller. Got a chance to see him play and he is absolutely ridiculous. WAY better than Tobias Harris will be next year as a freshman at Tenn. Not even in the same ballpark. That said, I think he is expanding his list for leverage. First it was Baylor, then it was Duke and now its Louisville. His recruitment is harder to figure out than Wroten's....and that says a lot!
Quote from: mu89 on August 28, 2010, 02:57:07 PM
this is great! only bummer is this guy is probably a 1 and done. but great to see that MU can get mentioned with the elites.
Silver lining in the "bummer": get drafted, raise MU's status of NBA-ready players, more top-tier recruits choosing MU.
"Its Miller Time" good to see Buzz going for the cream or the "Head "as it may be in this case.
PS... Luke Cothron to... Italy.
Couldn't make it happen at Auburn, so he is going 'pro'
Quote from: Stone Cold on August 28, 2010, 02:49:56 PM
Scout has him as the #8 SF. rivals has Duece Bello as the #11 sg, 43rd player in the nation overall.
Are we sure we should take him? Sounds like he doesn't even have a defined position. ;D
Quote from: Jay Bee on August 28, 2010, 05:13:34 PM
PS... Luke Cothron to... Italy.
Couldn't make it happen at Auburn, so he is going 'pro'
Not so sure thats the best thing for Luke. If a super-talented pg like Brandon Jennings barely made a splash, what does a largely unpolished guy like Cothron think he is going to accomplish? Prep or JUCO seems like a better option for his basketball development.
Kentucky just landed Kyle Wiltjer. Their 2011 class is stacked like no class since.........their 2010 class. Or maybe even their 2009 class. Seems less likely that Q Miller would choose them when theres already two highly regarded recruits signed there who play the same position, Wiltjer and Anthony Davis.
I'm trying not to get too excited about this left-field development of Miller adding us...
Quote from: Stone Cold on August 28, 2010, 02:38:37 PM
I'll begrudgingly go along with getting a top 50 wing to go with the top center in the country.
But they better not try to throw a top 30 pf in there too, I don't want to get pushed around by these kids too much.
Yeah, it would be such a waste of scholarship to have to let this bum tag along for the ride, just to get Quincy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e_gbT1U0Cs&feature=related
Dang. I just realized I have officially become an old timer watching that dunk Youtube video.
I was equally impressed at the dunks as I was annoyed by the posing after each one of them. I guess I should get fitted for dentures soon.
yeah...why would we want someone with that kind of ability on the team? ::)
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 28, 2010, 02:49:15 PM
I would be totally ok with giving the 11th spot to his friend.
Well we are, after all, a Christian institution. I too, think it would be appropriate to extend the open hand of friendship to his friend. ::)
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 28, 2010, 07:51:29 PM
Not so sure thats the best thing for Luke. If a super-talented pg like Brandon Jennings barely made a splash, what does a largely unpolished guy like Cothron think he is going to accomplish? Prep or JUCO seems like a better option for his basketball development.
No it's a terrible thing. Jennings was a one and done, NBA talent. Cothron is not.
While he might not be able to afford prep, two years of JUCO would be fine.
Duece Bello could actually be a SF at 6'3" becaue of his vert. his videos were crazy
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 28, 2010, 08:06:40 PM
Kentucky just landed Kyle Wiltjer. Their 2011 class is stacked like no class since.........their 2010 class. Or maybe even their 2009 class. Seems less likely that Q Miller would choose them when theres already two highly regarded recruits signed there who play the same position, Wiltjer and Anthony Davis.
I'm trying not to get too excited about this left-field development of Miller adding us...
Miller is going to Louisville. Id be surprised if he even made it out of his official visit next weekend without announcing.
I'll take Bello any day. Who cares if he might be a bit of a project, we wouldn't need much from him his freshman year anyways. Watching that dunk mixtape, he reminded me of Vince Carter. His superlong arms, the confidence he has to go up with one hand (he must have huge hands), and the way he can let loose a huge vertical leap from any position are just like VC.
On another note, however slim our chances for Miller are, has a recruit this highly ranked ever looked at Marquette? It seems like we've had plenty of guys in the 20s-30s nationally give us a look, but I can't remember a consensus top-5 guy looking twice at us. (I've only been closely following recruiting for a few years though.) And a big guy no less!
If Buzz can land this guy, Marquette basketball will have arrived on a level we could only hope for, and Buzz will have taken us there faster than any of us could have imagined.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 29, 2010, 01:53:23 AM
I'll take Bello any day. Who cares if he might be a bit of a project, we wouldn't need much from him his freshman year anyways. Watching that dunk mixtape, he reminded me of Vince Carter. His superlong arms, the confidence he has to go up with one hand (he must have huge hands), and the way he can let loose a huge vertical leap from any position are just like VC.
On another note, however slim our chances for Miller are, has a recruit this highly ranked ever looked at Marquette?
Hmmm....Joe Wolf?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 28, 2010, 10:21:44 PM
No it's a terrible thing. Jennings was a one and done, NBA talent. Cothron is not.
While he might not be able to afford prep, two years of JUCO would be fine.
I'd like to see how much he's getting paid before I decide just how terrible it is. I know very little about the development that takes place in college compared to overseas, but it sure didn't seem to hurt Jennings....hard to tell if it helped, although Jennings seemed to think so.
To have a positive experience overseas, it is essential for the kid to be mature and have a strong support system. By all accounts, LC does not have much of either. It should be interesting to see how this plays out. Latavious Williams could not qualify last year, so he went to the D-League and eventually got drafted.
There were (and still are) questions about Jennings' maturity but when he went over for that year, his brother and mother went with him.
Jeremy Tyler's overseas experience has been rough, to say the least.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 29, 2010, 01:53:23 AM
On another note, however slim our chances for Miller are, has a recruit this highly ranked ever looked at Marquette? It seems like we've had plenty of guys in the 20s-30s nationally give us a look, but I can't remember a consensus top-5 guy looking twice at us. (I've only been closely following recruiting for a few years though.) And a big guy no less!
If you're asking if any recruit has ever been rating in the
top 10, by any service at anytime in his high school career has considered or signed with MU .... off the top of my head (in no particular order) ....
Vander Blue?
JP Tokoto?
Jamil Wilson?
Glenn Rivers?
Joe Wolf?
Walter Downing?
Butch Lee?
Maurice Lucas?
moses malone
Quote from: GOMU1104 on August 29, 2010, 08:27:00 AM
To have a positive experience overseas, it is essential for the kid to be mature and have a strong support system. By all accounts, LC does not have much of either. It should be interesting to see how this plays out. Latavious Williams could not qualify last year, so he went to the D-League and eventually got drafted.
There were (and still are) questions about Jennings' maturity but when he went over for that year, his brother and mother went with him.
Jeremy Tyler's overseas experience has been rough, to say the least.
I understand all that, I guess I just find it hard to judge. If he would have qualified, and then ended up playing four years at Louisville without getting drafted, he's now lost out on four years of income. I have to question if someone who is not mentally tough or mature enough to handle playing overseas would have a chance at making it to the NBA anyhow.
Quote from: dmjt4160 on August 28, 2010, 11:16:29 PM
Miller is going to Louisville. Id be surprised if he even made it out of his official visit next weekend without announcing.
Can't see this guy going to Louisville, unless they get a Karen Sypher protege spread eagled on the Italian restaraunt table to seal the deal for him.
Quote from: avid1010 on August 29, 2010, 08:44:56 AM
I understand all that, I guess I just find it hard to judge. If he would have qualified, and then ended up playing four years at Louisville without getting drafted, he's now lost out on four years of income. I have to question if someone who is not mentally tough or mature enough to handle playing overseas would have a chance at making it to the NBA anyhow.
Going overseas is very tough, espcially for an 18/19 year old...tougher than going into the NBA at the same age.
You are going to a foreign land, dont know the language or culture, you are pretty much alone. Playing for coaches, teammates, fans that resent you. Will you even get a regular paycheck? Not to mention the style of play is different than what he was playing in America.
It's rough...not for everyone.
Quote from: avid1010 on August 29, 2010, 08:06:15 AM
I'd like to see how much he's getting paid before I decide just how terrible it is. I know very little about the development that takes place in college compared to overseas, but it sure didn't seem to hurt Jennings....hard to tell if it helped, although Jennings seemed to think so.
Jennings was a consensus top 10 player coming out of high school. He went to Europe instead of a one and done. I really doubt it helped him basketball wise, and he had the maturity to use Europe as a learning experience.
But Jennings is unique in that regard. Cothron isn't one and done talent. IMO, he is going to languish on the bench and basically would have killed his college eligibility for the sake of a quick buck.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 29, 2010, 09:33:51 AM
Jennings was a consensus top 10 player coming out of high school. He went to Europe instead of a one and done. I really doubt it helped him basketball wise, and he had the maturity to use Europe as a learning experience.
I'll let you argue that one with Jennings. He has stated many times that the road was tough, but it made him a better basketball player.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on August 29, 2010, 09:32:17 AM
Going overseas is very tough, espcially for an 18/19 year old...tougher than going into the NBA at the same age.
I understand that it's tougher than going to the NBA, what I'm stating as my opinion is that if you can't handle going overseas, and you're not an NBA talent out of high school like Jennings...if you can't hack it overseas I'm not sure you have what it takes to make it to the NBA. Such a small percentage of players get drafted, that in my opinion, if you aren't unbelievably talented you better be extremely mature and hard working to earn a spot in the league. Whether he goes overseas or stays in the states, I'm not sure he'll ever put in the work that a Diener, Novak, Hayward did to get into the league...I am sure he'll get paid next year.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on August 29, 2010, 08:30:56 AM
If you're asking if any recruit has ever been rating in the top 10, by any service at anytime in his high school career has considered or signed with MU .... off the top of my head (in no particular order) ....
Vander Blue?
JP Tokoto?
Jamil Wilson?
Glenn Rivers?
Joe Wolf?
Walter Downing?
Butch Lee?
Maurice Lucas?
No, thats not what I'm asking at all. I said
consensus top 5, not players like Blue, Wilson, or Tokoto who were over-rated by a particular service in their freshman or sophomore years, but then fell back to the 20s-40s range by the time they were more fully analyzed. I'm talking the true studs that there is no disagreement about. No question one-and-done talents.
You'd probably know better about the guys from Al's era as that was before my time. Those are more the guys I was talking about. By the way, I had no idea Glenn Rivers gave us a look.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 29, 2010, 09:33:51 AM
Jennings was a consensus top 10 player coming out of high school. He went to Europe instead of a one and done. I really doubt it helped him basketball wise, and he had the maturity to use Europe as a learning experience.
But Jennings is unique in that regard. Cothron isn't one and done talent. IMO, he is going to languish on the bench and basically would have killed his college eligibility for the sake of a quick buck.
I don't know how being forced to play in a tough Italian league where he had to fight for minutes with grown men in a style of basketball that forced him to play a team style ball didn't make him better. He also had a lot of free time to work on his game since he didn't have a lot of friends over there and spent a lot of time in the gym.
Compare that to a year in Arizona where he would of been top dog on the team and constantly hanging out with friends and chasing tail. At the very least, it made him more humble.
As for Luke, I don't know how you could go wrong with making hundreds of dollars a year. At the very worst, he has a horrible two-year experience but made a ton of money. On the bright side, most people grow to love Europe and is seeing the world at a young age and getting a fresh start. I like this option for players. We just don't like it cause we love college basketball.
Quote from: dmjt4160 on August 28, 2010, 11:16:29 PM
Miller is going to Louisville. Id be surprised if he even made it out of his official visit next weekend without announcing.
Maybe. I haven't been following this kid much at all since I don't really pay much attention to guys we have no shot with, but even to me Louisville has seemed like the leader the whole time. I've seen a bunch of articles to that effect. If he comes away from his trip to Louisville next weekend and is still looking, then I will really get excited.
For those thinking he is just expanding his list to leverage whatever school into taking Deuce Bello, why Marquette? Seems to me like if he was just doing this as a ploy, he would pick a school that made a little more sense? (i.e. a place that makes more sense in terms of geography, experience with players like him--UNC, Florida, etc.). And with already having a list like Baylor, Louisville, Kentucky, Wake Forest, Kansas, UCLA, Oklahoma, and Duke, does he really need Marquette as
more leverage? I think Pitino, Self, or Coach K would see through those tactics immediately. I just don't by that theory, it seems a little fishy to me.
Call me naive, but I have a feeling he wouldn't have added us so late unless he had at least some genuine interest in Marquette.
Impossible to know what this all means. We can guess, but I have a feelign we will know soon. This recruiting thing is tough on us fans, but I was thinking yesterday, can you imagine what the coaches go through?
Soon we will know something . . . and the pieces will start to fall in place. End of August already, so time is marching ahead and so will decisions. GO MARQUETTE!!!
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 29, 2010, 11:19:41 AM
As for Luke, I don't know how you could go wrong with making hundreds of dollars a year. At the very worst, he has a horrible two-year experience but made a ton of money. On the bright side, most people grow to love Europe and is seeing the world at a young age and getting a fresh start. I like this option for players. We just don't like it cause we love college basketball.
"Hundreds of dollars per year"??? Do you mean hundreds of thousands?
What makes you think that Cothron is going to make anywhere near that? There are limited foreign spots available on each team and I doubt a top level team is going to use one on him.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 29, 2010, 09:33:51 AM
Jennings was a consensus top 10 player coming out of high school. He went to Europe instead of a one and done. I really doubt it helped him basketball wise, and he had the maturity to use Europe as a learning experience.
But Jennings is unique in that regard. Cothron isn't one and done talent. IMO, he is going to languish on the bench and basically would have killed his college eligibility for the sake of a quick buck.
Jennings couldn't get into Zona and that is why he went overseas.
Quote from: Daniel on August 29, 2010, 12:23:10 PM
Impossible to know what this all means. We can guess, but I have a feelign we will know soon. This recruiting thing is tough on us fans, but I was thinking yesterday, can you imagine what the coaches go through?
Soon we will know something . . . and the pieces will start to fall in place. End of August already, so time is marching ahead and so will decisions. GO MARQUETTE!!!
This is a point that doesn't get made enough. Whether it was Tom Crean, Buzz, or any other coach NOT at UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke...the amount to time, energy and effort put into recruiting is tremendous..that generally results in being told "no," more frequently than 'yes." As we have seen, MU has made 23 offers to kids thus far for 2011 - ultimately only 3 will commit to MU..and those 3 may not even be from the currently list of 3. Recruiting obviously is the lifeblood of a program, thankfully we Buzz is a tireless worker, and connects well with people. Hopefully, soon...the program will reach a few Elite 8's and Buzz gets known as a guy who can coach kids up, help them get to the NBA...and soon MU will become a program on the level of the above named schools..and MU/Buzz name will practically recruit/sell itself.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 29, 2010, 11:10:32 AM
No, thats not what I'm asking at all. I said consensus top 5, not players like Blue, Wilson, or Tokoto who were over-rated by a particular service in their freshman or sophomore years, but then fell back to the 20s-40s range by the time they were more fully analyzed. I'm talking the true studs that there is no disagreement about. No question one-and-done talents.
You'd probably know better about the guys from Al's era as that was before my time. Those are more the guys I was talking about. By the way, I had no idea Glenn Rivers gave us a look.
Quincy Miller still has to play his senior year and we don't know where he is final ranking will be. You're assuming he will not fall in the final rankings next spring. So, we do not know for sure he is "one and done"talent." (BTW, go see the many post by BMA725 and others that have studied these rankings and concluded they are not that precise. "Top 5" or "Top 20" is really not a meaningful difference.)
What we know now is he is ranked after his Junior year. That ranking is similar to what Jamil Wilson, J.P. Tokoto and Vander Blue had after their Sophomore and Junior years.
Now regarding your comment about Rivers "giving us a look" which I bolded above. I'm going to assume that you wrote this wrong and it is not what you meant. Tell me you know where Rivers went to college.
Quote from: seakm4 on August 28, 2010, 10:52:24 PM
Duece Bello could actually be a SF at 6'3" becaue of his vert. his videos were crazy
Umm, he's 170 pounds at 6'3...to say that's skinny would make Mbao chubby.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 29, 2010, 11:19:41 AM
I don't know how being forced to play in a tough Italian league where he had to fight for minutes with grown men in a style of basketball that forced him to play a team style ball didn't make him better. He also had a lot of free time to work on his game since he didn't have a lot of friends over there and spent a lot of time in the gym.
Compare that to a year in Arizona where he would of been top dog on the team and constantly hanging out with friends and chasing tail. At the very least, it made him more humble.
For a guy like Cothron, that's likely not a one-and-done, there's also the issue of school. College isn't for everyone, and while certain schools can obviously get players through with minimal effort, seeing the time MU players put into classes and studying is a reality. If that time was spent on the court, or in the weight room, it could give a competitive advantage.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on August 29, 2010, 02:58:27 PM
I'm going to assume that you wrote this wrong and it is not what you meant. Tell me you know where Rivers went to college.
Well, Glenn Rivers was a decent player, but his twin brother Doc was so much better.
Word is that Cothron will not be going to Italy.
In other news...Justin Coleman will be going to Marshall as a partial qualifier.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on August 29, 2010, 04:32:14 PM
Word is that Cothron will not be going to Italy.
In other news...Justin Coleman will be going to Marshall as a partial qualifier.
No such thing as a partial qualifier, right? Just a qualifier or nonqualifier in D1... non-quals can get a partial waiver that might allow for an athletic scholarship and participation in practice... with Coleman, gotta think he may be just be going to school there but not even practicing... I bet the prospect of playing with Yous was the biggest factor here.
Cothron - who knows. Doesn't sound like playing D1 ball this year is going to be an option, whatever he ultimately decides on doing.
Quote from: Jay Bee on August 29, 2010, 04:49:58 PM
No such thing as a partial qualifier, right? Just a qualifier or nonqualifier in D1... non-quals can get a partial waiver that might allow for an athletic scholarship and participation in practice... with Coleman, gotta think he may be just be going to school there but not even practicing... I bet the prospect of playing with Yous was the biggest factor here.
Cothron - who knows. Doesn't sound like playing D1 ball this year is going to be an option, whatever he ultimately decides on doing.
Apparently hes a "prop" according to Scout. He is not currently eligible and cannot do on court instruction. If hes figures things out, he could be eligible.
Cothron's coach said he would be playing in college. We will see.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on August 29, 2010, 05:11:14 PM
Apparently hes a "prop" according to Scout. He is not currently eligible and cannot do on court instruction. If hes figures things out, he could be eligible.
Cothron's coach said he would be playing in college. We will see.
I think ED is confused on this one. Looks like the appropriate description is that he is a non-qualifier that has not received a partial waiver. If true, he could not practice and could not receive an academic scholarship.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 29, 2010, 01:53:23 AM
I'll take Bello any day. Who cares if he might be a bit of a project, we wouldn't need much from him his freshman year anyways. Watching that dunk mixtape, he reminded me of Vince Carter. His superlong arms, the confidence he has to go up with one hand (he must have huge hands), and the way he can let loose a huge vertical leap from any position are just like VC.
On another note, however slim our chances for Miller are, has a recruit this highly ranked ever looked at Marquette? It seems like we've had plenty of guys in the 20s-30s nationally give us a look, but I can't remember a consensus top-5 guy looking twice at us. (I've only been closely following recruiting for a few years though.) And a big guy no less!
If Buzz can land this guy, Marquette basketball will have arrived on a level we could only hope for, and Buzz will have taken us there faster than any of us could have imagined.
Bernard Toone
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on August 29, 2010, 02:58:27 PM
Quincy Miller still has to play his senior year and we don't know where he is final ranking will be. You're assuming he will not fall in the final rankings next spring. So, we do not know for sure he is "one and done"talent." (BTW, go see the many post by BMA725 and others that have studied these rankings and concluded they are not that precise. "Top 5" or "Top 20" is really not a meaningful difference.)
What we know now is he is ranked after his Junior year. That ranking is similar to what Jamil Wilson, J.P. Tokoto and Vander Blue had after their Sophomore and Junior years.
Now regarding your comment about Rivers "giving us a look" which I bolded above. I'm going to assume that you wrote this wrong and it is not what you meant. Tell me you know where Rivers went to college.
Haha wow, egg on my face. I'm so used to calling him Doc I completely overlooked what his real first name is. As I was reading your list, for some reason Glenn
Rice came to mind when I read Glenn Rivers. Probably makes more sense now...
I disagree that the difference between top 20 and top 5 is inconsequential. There are only about 5 or 6 one-and-dones per year, not 20-30, and those are the types who have not been at MU in the last couple decades. The one and dones are usually pretty easy to predict by the time they graduate high school.
I also highly doubt Blue or Wilson were consensus top-5 nationally after their jr years by the major services, but I will stand corrected if you can prove me wrong. And Tokoto has dropped from around #10 at his peak after his freshman year to the 20s-30s by most services. None of them are the same level as Quincy Miller.
I am of course assuming Miller doesn't fall his senior year, but he has been steadily rising (now #2 on scout I believe) Miller just doesn't seem likely to fall outside the top 10, but I guess we will see.
I watched all the team USA games that Vander was on. I absolutely love Quincy Miller. At 6'8" he is capable of playing guard. In the pros he probably will play the three. He is not a center and I do not see him choosing MU, if he thinks he will play center.
Quote from: bilsu on August 29, 2010, 06:54:56 PM
I watched all the team USA games that Vander was on. I absolutely love Quincy Miller. At 6'8" he is capable of playing guard. In the pros he probably will play the three. He is not a center and I do not see him choosing MU, if he thinks he will play center.
He's going to Louisville
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 29, 2010, 06:11:57 PM
Bernard Toone
Would that be Bernard "Looney" Toone? (What a piece of work he was.)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 29, 2010, 07:03:03 PM
He's going to Louisville
Do you have a reason for this, other than that they have seemed like the leader for his services for the last month or so? Until there is solid evidence, things can always change in recruiting.
Just my hunch
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 29, 2010, 07:03:03 PM
He's going to Louisville
Two months ago you could have said the same thing about Baylor. Prior to that it was Duke. Before that it was NC State.
With Miller, things change by the minute.
Besides the Blue connection, Miller's mom is from/lives in Chicago. Let's see if he gets out of Louisville without committing and we may have a chance--albeit slight. Pitino has a starting five recruit all-star line-up visiting this weekend. Will have to do some Pitinoing to clear cap space.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 29, 2010, 06:49:05 PM
Haha wow, egg on my face. I'm so used to calling him Doc I completely overlooked what his real first name is. As I was reading your list, for some reason Glenn Rice came to mind when I read Glenn Rivers. Probably makes more sense now...
Fair enough ... I know Glenn (sorry Doc) from my MU days. He was on my floor (6th floor McCormick) Freshman year (1981) and he has always been "Glenn" to me and not "Doc".
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 29, 2010, 11:10:32 AM
No, thats not what I'm asking at all. I said consensus top 5, not players like Blue, Wilson, or Tokoto who were over-rated by a particular service in their freshman or sophomore years, but then fell back to the 20s-40s range by the time they were more fully analyzed. I'm talking the true studs that there is no disagreement about. No question one-and-done talents.
Does Brian Butch count? He was ranked as high as 4, and I think his RSCI ended up around 7. It may have ultimately come down to UW and UNC for him, but he certainly gave us a look. He obviously wasn't a one-and-done talent, and you can argue he was overrated, but his numbers were certainly in the ballpark.
Quote from: Litehouse on August 30, 2010, 08:50:46 AM
Does Brian Butch count? He was ranked as high as 4, and I think his RSCI ended up around 7. It may have ultimately come down to UW and UNC for him, but he certainly gave us a look. He obviously wasn't a one-and-done talent, and you can argue he was overrated, but his numbers were certainly in the ballpark.
Yea, Butch is probably the closest example since the Al days. Its insane how highly rated he was when you consider he redshirted, stayed 4 years, and was still never even close to the best player on that team. That being said, I would have loved to have him at MU and I really respected him.
I consider him to be an example of how Bo's "player development" skills aren't always what they're made out to be. He had the body and skills of a lowpost banger, but for some reason Bo had him spending most of his time on the perimeter since he hit a few jumpers. I think that really hampered his development as a center, especially in terms of playing on the next level. Theres no reason Butch couldn't have had a Joel Pryzbila-like career.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 30, 2010, 10:54:24 AM
I consider him to be an example of how Bo's "player development" skills aren't always what they're made out to be. He had the body and skills of a lowpost banger, but for some reason Bo had him spending most of his time on the perimeter since he hit a few jumpers. I think that really hampered his development as a center, especially in terms of playing on the next level. Theres no reason Butch couldn't have had a Joel Pryzbila-like career.
It was my recollection that Bo tried to make Butch into more of a post player..when he would have been best served to fill a role like Steve Novak did at MU. Butch was known to be a great shooter..but not a physical presence..and Bo tried to bulk him up and make him one..if I recall correctly?
Quote from: Ners on August 30, 2010, 11:07:15 AM
It was my recollection that Bo tried to make Butch into more of a post player..when he would have been best served to fill a role like Steve Novak did at MU. Butch was known to be a great shooter..but not a physical presence..and Bo tried to bulk him up and make him one..as I recall correctly?
That's exactly right. And Butch has nowhere near the bulk to bang around the inside at the next level. He probably would have been better served playing the Novak-type role if the primary concern was his NBA future.
Butch was not suited for the Novak role at all. They are completely different players, except for being tall white guys. Novak ran around the perimeter looking for open shots. Butch is not suited to that at all. He has a slow release, absolutely no quickness, and even less ability than Novak to create off the dribble. Plus, he's only a good shooter in the context of being a center, not a great shooter by any measure like Novak. To play the Butch role in the NBA, he would need to be a small forward, which no one will argue he could play. He would not be suited to living only on the perimeter, as Novak is.
And Bo may have made some attempts to make Butch a post player, but the swing offense had him spending way too much time on the perimeter while guards and small forwards posted up. This hurt Butch's development as a rebounder and his post move repertoire, which he had very little of but had the requisite skills to develop.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 30, 2010, 12:25:55 PM
Butch was not suited for the Novak role at all. They are completely different players, except for being tall white guys. Novak ran around the perimeter looking for open shots. Butch is not suited to that at all. He has a slow release, absolutely no quickness, and even less ability than Novak to create off the dribble. Plus, he's only a good shooter in the context of being a center, not a great shooter by any measure like Novak. To play the Butch role in the NBA, he would need to be a small forward, which no one will argue he could play. He would not be suited to living only on the perimeter, as Novak is.
Butch's role in high school was almost exactly like Novak's. Furthermore, instead of trying to bulk him up to bang on the inside, which had the side effect of slowing him down, he could have definately developed a quickness and a better shot with the right coaching.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 30, 2010, 12:30:06 PM
Butch's role in high school was almost exactly like Novak's. Furthermore, instead of trying to bulk him up to bang on the inside, which had the side effect of slowing him down, he could have definately developed a quickness and a better shot with the right coaching.
Whatever his role in high school was, we are debating his development/role at UW relative to looking forward to the NBA, not looking back. And I don't really think his role at a D4 northern Wisconsin high school is indicative of his NBA prospects.
Novak bulked up considerably from hs to the NBA, but maintained his quickness. Butch didn't, if he ever had much. I saw both Novak play live multiple times in hs and Butch multiple times on TV, and Butch had a much thicker frame than Novak when they were both hs seniors. Saying their roles were almost exactly the same is misleading-Butch was a center who hit some jumpers, while Novak was a 2 in a 5's body. Not really the same. And to say a 7-footer could just develop quickness and a better shot is very optimistic. Why doesn't that happen more often then? I'm sure every college or NBA team would love a quick 7footer who can nail 3s. Its much more realistic that he develop a couple go-to post moves and better rebounding skills.
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 30, 2010, 01:12:05 PM
Whatever his role in high school was, we are debating his development/role at UW relative to looking forward to the NBA, not looking back. And I don't really think his role at a D4 northern Wisconsin high school is indicative of his NBA prospects.
Novak bulked up considerably from hs to the NBA, but maintained his quickness. Butch didn't, if he ever had much. I saw both Novak play live multiple times in hs and Butch multiple times on TV, and Butch had a much thicker frame than Novak when they were both hs seniors. Saying their roles were almost exactly the same is misleading-Butch was a center who hit some jumpers, while Novak was a 2 in a 5's body. Not really the same. And to say a 7-footer could just develop quickness and a better shot is very optimistic. Why doesn't that happen more often then? I'm sure every college or NBA team would love a quick 7footer who can nail 3s. Its much more realistic that he develop a couple go-to post moves and better rebounding skills.
"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?" He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)
Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body. To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness. Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 30, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?" He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)
Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body. To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness. Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level.
He went to West
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 30, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?" He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)
Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body. To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness. Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level.
Oops, my bad, got his hs confused with Stiemsma's.
Still, you say his frame can't support being an NBA big. I guess we agree to disagree. Hes 7 ft, 245. Bogut is 7 ft, 260, and plenty big for down low in the NBA. Im not sure why he can't put on 10-15 more lbs and be essentially the same size as Bogut (by the way, Bogut was only 205 lbs as a hs senior-why couldn't Butch steadily develop like him?). My point is that saying he is like Novak is misleading, because he didn't have the speed, release, quickness that Novak had. If he had gone to MU and been employed in exactly the same way Novak was, he still wouldn't have made the NBA as a shooting sf. His size and skills mean his best position longterm in the NBA is center, where any lost quickness due to added bulk would be largely inconsequential. He simply never had enough of the skills it takes to play NBA sf. Men his size with his skill/coordination are hard to come by.
As you say, he played the role Bo asked very well. Thats not what we're debating. We're debating whether the role Bo put him in was the best for his NBA prospects. At least thats what I am debating. I would never disagree that he did exactly what Bo wanted him to do.
Heres my quote that started this debate ...
"I consider him to be an example of how Bo's "player development" skills aren't always what they're made out to be. He had the body and skills of a lowpost banger, but for some reason Bo had him spending most of his time on the perimeter since he hit a few jumpers.
I think that really hampered his development as a center, especially in terms of playing on the next level. Theres no reason Butch couldn't have had a Joel Pryzbila-like career."
Quote from: MarkCharles on August 30, 2010, 01:54:02 PM
Hes 7 ft, 245. Bogut is 7 ft, 260, and plenty big for down low in the NBA. Im not sure why he can't put on 10-15 more lbs and be essentially the same size as Bogut
No because it would all go to his man titties and make him hunch over more.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 30, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
"D4 Northern Wisconsin high school?" He went to D1 Appleton West (or East...can't remember exactly)
Butch's frame was never meant to be an NBA center body. To bulk up, he sacrificed too much quickness. Honestly, his role almost perfectly fit what Bo asked of him at the college level.
I agree with your assessment Sultan...from what I recall UW did their damndest to bulk Butch up and turn him into a bona-fide post player. As I recall he won the 3 point contest at the MCDonalds All-American game coming out of High School..so from that..do know that he had a very strong 3-ball coming out of High School. Never saw he and Novak play live..but to me..their foot speed/quickness coming out of high school couldn't have been very different..Novak was SLOW upon arriving at MU..
Quote from: Ners on August 30, 2010, 02:28:10 PM
I agree with your assessment Sultan...from what I recall UW did their damndest to bulk Butch up and turn him into a bona-fide post player. As I recall he won the 3 point contest at the MCDonalds All-American game coming out of High School..so from that..do know that he had a very strong 3-ball coming out of High School. Never saw he and Novak play live..but to me..their foot speed/quickness coming out of high school couldn't have been very different..Novak was SLOW upon arriving at MU..
Yes, this exactly my recollection as well...and I know that bma has mentioned this here as well. Scout actually named him the best shooting big man in the class if I recall.
Quote from: Ners on August 30, 2010, 02:28:10 PM
I agree with your assessment Sultan...from what I recall UW did their damndest to bulk Butch up and turn him into a bona-fide post player. As I recall he won the 3 point contest at the MCDonalds All-American game coming out of High School..so from that..do know that he had a very strong 3-ball coming out of High School. Never saw he and Novak play live..but to me..their foot speed/quickness coming out of high school couldn't have been very different..Novak was SLOW upon arriving at MU..
It was actually the 2-ball competition.
Glad another thread titled for a potential recruit has turned into an argument about something completely, COMPLETELY unrelated. Could somebody please send me a PM when information about the actual thread title comes on here? Thanks in advance.
+ 1 billion
Quote from: wadesworld on August 30, 2010, 07:53:57 PM
Glad another thread titled for a potential recruit has turned into an argument about something completely, COMPLETELY unrelated. Could somebody please send me a PM when information about the actual thread title comes on here? Thanks in advance.
Understand your point...yet as with most recruiting threads..not much solid information is known by anyone on here other than probably BMA..so..as the topic unfolds and people make comments..the thread can take a different direction. So, people (myself and others) chime in on what they do know something about..and the original thread gets sidetracked. I'm sure as more information comes available on Quincy Miller..it will be added to this thread or a new one started. Also, I wouldn't look at it as arguing, as much as debating..and considering we are in a dry news period for MU hoops...if you would, cut those of us who participated in the Brian Butch debate a little slack...we're just bored at present!
Back to the recruitment of Quincy Miller, it seems that it's likely he'll be committing to Louisville this weekend, and this should come as no big surprise.
http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/24211090
Quote from: whodem on August 30, 2010, 10:42:25 PM
Back to the recruitment of Quincy Miller, it seems that it's likely he'll be committing to Louisville this weekend, and this should come as no big surprise.
http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/24211090
Can't stand the phony baloney from Slick Rick. I guess to land top studs you have to fail as a Pro coach; own race horses; and bang middle aged chicks on restaurant tables.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 31, 2010, 06:34:58 AM
Can't stand the phony baloney from Slick Rick. I guess to land top studs you have to fail as a Pro coach; own race horses; and bang middle aged chicks on restaurant tables.
If he was planning on committing to Louisville this weekend, than there would be no reason to add MU to his list. He may end up at Louisville, but I do not expect him to commit this weekend.
Quote from: Ners on August 30, 2010, 09:38:23 PM
Understand your point...yet as with most recruiting threads..not much solid information is known by anyone on here other than probably BMA..so..as the topic unfolds and people make comments..the thread can take a different direction. So, people (myself and others) chime in on what they do know something about..and the original thread gets sidetracked. I'm sure as more information comes available on Quincy Miller..it will be added to this thread or a new one started. Also, I wouldn't look at it as arguing, as much as debating..and considering we are in a dry news period for MU hoops...if you would, cut those of us who participated in the Brian Butch debate a little slack...we're just bored at present!
That would all be well and good.....if it didn't happen EVERY freakin time!
Quote from: KCMarq09 on August 31, 2010, 08:50:11 AM
That would all be well and good.....if it didn't happen EVERY freakin time!
Would it be too much to ask posters to change the thread's "subject" when a topic has run off its original course?
If you're replying to a post about Butch/Novak, change the subject to "Re: Butch/Novak." Once that is done, simply quote a post from the Butch/Novak conversation to fill it in automatically. If you're sticking to the original topic, leave the subject alone.
Problem solved! (kind of)
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on August 31, 2010, 08:55:55 AM
Would it be too much to ask posters to change the thread's "subject" when a topic has run off its original course?
If you're replying to a post about Butch/Novak, change the subject to "Re: Butch/Novak." Once that is done, simply quote a post from the Butch/Novak conversation to fill it in automatically. If you're sticking to the original topic, leave the subject alone.
Problem solved! (kind of)
Good luck with that. I suspect most posters won't do it.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on August 31, 2010, 08:55:55 AM
Would it be too much to ask posters to change the thread's "subject" when a topic has run off its original course?
Yes. I'm not going to do it. Threads go off course all of the time....that's the nature of discussion boards.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 31, 2010, 10:35:03 AM
Yes. I'm not going to do it. Threads go off course all of the time....that's the nature of discussion boards.
Can you please PM me when information on Quincey Miller shows up then? I get that topics go off course every now and then. People are reminded of something by the original topic and make a reminiscent post about it and maybe somebody responds to that. But when it turns into 5 posts on the actual title thread and then 4 pages on a completely unrelated topic then it should probably no longer be titled what it originally was.
I want to read updates on Quincy Miller's recruitment. I don'tcare to read 4 pages about where Brian Butch was rated, what McDonald's All American game he won,, and whether or not he truly considered us. If the thread was titled Brian Butch was overrated I'd know not to read. Since it's titled for Miller I don't know whether or not there's actually info on him and if I should read it.
Thanks
Ditto to wadesworld.
Quincy Miller to Marquette!....
...is a thread title that I would love to read in the next few days. It would probably stay on topic too!
If this thread only had Quincy Miller posts, it would be 8 posts long. If all the topics were relevant without the banter, no thread would go longer than a page. That would make this a news wire site, not a message board.
One thing I always propose is having a news only recruiting thread. Have the main page be all updated info on all our recruits with only knew information in the following posts. That way we kind of have an archive on who we are going after and easy to skim for those short on time. For those that like to banter (90% of the board), we can start threads on individual stories/information. We still have this thread but all breaking news stuff is added to the recruiting news thread. The mods can lock that one an be the only ones that add info so it would only be like 6 pages long for the whole summer. Best of both worlds.
Quote from: Eford4President2012 on August 31, 2010, 12:31:04 PM
Quincy Miller to Marquette!....
...is a thread title that I would love to read in the next few days. It would probably stay on topic too!
Agree - pretty sure that such a thread would stay on topic, and evolve into a 4-7 page thread..most of which would be about Quincy..
Quote from: Ners on August 31, 2010, 01:02:43 PM
Agree - pretty sure that such a thread would stay on topic, and evolve into a 4-7 page thread..most of which would be about Quincy..
...and how our former coach sucked for never getting such a highly rated recruit...
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 31, 2010, 01:02:14 PM
If this thread only had Quincy Miller posts, it would be 8 posts long. If all the topics were relevant without the banter, no thread would go longer than a page. That would make this a news wire site, not a message board.
One thing I always propose is having a news only recruiting thread. Have the main page be all updated info on all our recruits with only knew information in the following posts. That way we kind of have an archive on who we are going after and easy to skim for those short on time. For those that like to banter (90% of the board), we can start threads on individual stories/information. We still have this thread but all breaking news stuff is added to the recruiting news thread. The mods can lock that one an be the only ones that add info so it would only be like 6 pages long for the whole summer. Best of both worlds.
I agree. Ive always wanted a separate recruiting thread here. However, the problem isnt people posting off topic its that that topic becomes a huge 5 page long debate that is inconsequential in almost all circumstances.
Rest assured that when something substantial actually happens with Miller, I or somebody else will start a new thread. Doesn't that seem to be the way it goes around here? There is rarely a recruit for which there are multiple news stories over a period of weeks but only one thread--someone always starts a new one so that people will know new, relevant info has arisen. From now on, I guess it is safe to assume that this thread is forever lost in off-topic debate.
And by the way, those complaining that this particular thread contains little about the title topic pushed it further from the topic, as it has now become a discussion of off-topic threads.
Just found this little article about Quincy Miller's tweeting tendencies, seemed a bit frenetic to say the least. Hope he doesn't commit to UL this weekend and that we really are in play, but not sure based on how crazy this article seems:
http://www.bigbluefeed.com/kentucky-sports-radio/quincy-miller-tweeting-confuses-every-fanbase-in-america/
Well.. no Quincy or Duece commit to U of L as of yet...
Looks like Chane Benahan will commit to the Cards tomorrow morning, though.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 31, 2010, 05:23:15 PM
Just found this little article about Quincy Miller's tweeting tendencies, seemed a bit frenetic to say the least. Hope he doesn't commit to UL this weekend and that we really are in play, but not sure based on how crazy this article seems:
http://www.bigbluefeed.com/kentucky-sports-radio/quincy-miller-tweeting-confuses-every-fanbase-in-america/
People are taking those tweets out of context. At the time, he was doing an online chat for Slam Magazine, and his answers were linked to his twitter account. If you look at the tweets only, then yes, it does get confusing. However, if you read the chat, they make sense.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/2010/08/quincy-miller-live-chat/
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 06, 2010, 12:58:35 PM
Well.. no Quincy or Duece commit to U of L as of yet...
Looks like Chane Benahan will commit to the Cards tomorrow morning, though.
Miller has announced he is going to Duke's midnight madness
Hopefully after vander assisted on his game-winning 3-pointer to beat brazil. Hopefully he went right to him and said, "this is how the ncaa championship game will end if you come with me to marquette!"
Chane Behanan, no. 32 on the ESPNU 100, just verbaled to Louisville. He was with Quincy Miller and Deuce Bello in Louisville this weekend for their official visits. I'm not sure if this affects Miller at all. Louisville currently has four 4star recruits (per ESPN) for the 2011 class, but only three scholarships set to come off the books the old fashioned way. They'll have to have a major roster shakeup if they take both Bello and Miller.
I honestly don't see how we end up with Miller. When you're that good, you'll get pt wherever you go, so its not like the opening at the 4 in MU's lineup should be a huge draw for him. I just don't see how coming to Marquette makes much sense for him as a basketball player.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 07, 2010, 01:26:02 PM
I honestly don't see how we end up with Miller. When you're that good, you'll get pt wherever you go, so its not like the opening at the 4 in MU's lineup should be a huge draw for him. I just don't see how coming to Marquette makes much sense for him as a basketball player.
Where does it make more sense for him to attend as a basketball player? Why not MU? If we can develop guys like Lazar and Wes into pros, clearly we would do great things in Miller's growth and development as well.
http://twitter.com/DaveTelep/status/23245635953 (http://twitter.com/DaveTelep/status/23245635953)
Dave Telep "will be shocked if Deuce Bello and Quincy Miller don't follow Behanan to Louisville" in the near future. Dreams.....crushed.
Buzz, time to put the full court press on Mike Shaw.
Quote from: Ners on September 07, 2010, 01:46:22 PM
Where does it make more sense for him to attend as a basketball player? Why not MU? If we can develop guys like Lazar and Wes into pros, clearly we would do great things in Miller's growth and development as well.
There are about a dozen schools that immediately come to mind that make more sense as a basketball player. Considering that Miller is very likely to be a one-and-done, I don't think MU's ability to develop less-heralded prospects into NBA players over a 4 year period of time is very relevant to him. He wants to go to a school were his one year they would have a great shot at a national title. While MU with him might have a decent shot, there are plenty of schools that would provide a much better chance for a title. Also, he is from NC--tell me how MU makes much sense in that regard. Education? Probably not a terribly high priority, but if it is, why not go to Duke?
Also, there is the issue of position. He would likely see at least a good chunk of time at the 5 at MU, whereas he sees himself as a 3 in the NBA. If you were him and had no connection to MU, would you even look at MU? Unless Miller fell in love with Buzz, he has plenty of other options that make more sense.
Quote from: Ners on September 07, 2010, 01:46:22 PM
Where does it make more sense for him to attend as a basketball player? Why not MU? If we can develop guys like Lazar and Wes into pros, clearly we would do great things in Miller's growth and development as well.
This kind of prospect simply isn't going to attend Marquette.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 07, 2010, 01:54:52 PM
There are about a dozen schools that immediately come to mind that make more sense as a basketball player. Considering that Miller is very likely to be a one-and-done, I don't think MU's ability to develop less-heralded prospects into NBA players over a 4 year period of time is very relevant to him. He wants to go to a school were his one year they would have a great shot at a national title. While MU with him might have a decent shot, there are plenty of schools that would provide a much better chance for a title. Also, he is from NC--tell me how MU makes much sense in that regard. Education? Probably not a terribly high priority, but if it is, why not go to Duke?
Also, there is the issue of position. He would likely see at least a good chunk of time at the 5 at MU, whereas he sees himself as a 3 in the NBA. If you were him and had no connection to MU, would you even look at MU? Unless Miller fell in love with Buzz, he has plenty of other options that make more sense.
Otule will be the 5 next year, and if Miller is as good as advertised..he'd play immediately..a 3 and 4 in Buzz's offense is interchangeable. MU will have a legitimate shot to be a Final Four team next year if DJO stays...why not go to a program that is able to maximize guy's potential? There have been many highly rated recruits that have gone elsewhere and don't make the NBA..yet MU can get guys like Wes and Hayward..75-100 ranked players to the league? Can't argue against Duke or UNC so much..but would like to hear of the other 10 programs that he would be better served going to..
Quote from: Ners on September 07, 2010, 02:58:50 PM
Otule will be the 5 next year, and if Miller is as good as advertised..he'd play immediately..a 3 and 4 in Buzz's offense is interchangeable. MU will have a legitimate shot to be a Final Four team next year if DJO stays...why not go to a program that is able to maximize guy's potential? There have been many highly rated recruits that have gone elsewhere and don't make the NBA..yet MU can get guys like Wes and Hayward..75-100 ranked players to the league? Can't argue against Duke or UNC so much..but would like to hear of the other 10 programs that he would be better served going to..
Exactly my point. He is good enough to start wherever he goes, so Marquette having a lot of minutes available at the 4 doesn't really matter to him.
As I said, why would it matter that we can get a guy like Lazar to the NBA to a guy like Miller who would be a top draft pick right out of high school? He doesn't need to be developed over 4 years, he wants a place that--
A: gives him maximum exposure,
B: has a track record with one and done players,
C: has a great shot at a national title
A-Marquette gives him great exposure, but ok, here are 10 that give him more: Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Syracuse, UCLA, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan State, Texas, UConn. Yes some of these are in the Big East, but MU doesn't get as much national exposure as these teams.
B-Marquette has zero experience with these guys. By the way, I think this makes little sense, since these guys don't really need much help getting drafted and they are hardly "developed" in their roughly 8 months on campus. But reality is that these guys want to go somewhere that has produced similar players.
C-I agree that Marquette is loaded in '11-'12. I can't say how excited I am for that team. But looking at this team in Sept. 2010, as Miller must do, you can't tell me there aren't 10 teams in the nation that look like they have a better national title chance. If you want me to do that research I will name them, but the list probably looks pretty similar to the one in A.
And you saying Otule as a steady presence at the 5 is all speculation. I hope he pans out, and I would bet he will, but we all know his injury past. If he's injured, or isn't a 30 mpg Big East center by that stage in his development, Miller would see a lot of time at the 5. He'd be a better option there than a soph. Gardner, in all likelihood.
I feel like I'm arguing against MU, when I would never want to do that. I'm just trying to be realistic about this one.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 07, 2010, 04:53:23 PM
As I said, why would it matter that we can get a guy like Lazar to the NBA to a guy like Miller who would be a top draft pick right out of high school? He doesn't need to be developed over 4 years, he wants a place that--
A: gives him maximum exposure,
B: has a track record with one and done players,
C: has a great shot at a national title
A-Marquette gives him great exposure, but ok, here are 10 that give him more: Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Syracuse, UCLA, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan State, Texas, UConn. Yes some of these are in the Big East, but MU doesn't get as much national exposure as these teams.
B-Marquette has zero experience with these guys. By the way, I think this makes little sense, since these guys don't really need much help getting drafted and they are hardly "developed" in their roughly 8 months on campus. But reality is that these guys want to go somewhere that has produced similar players.
C-I agree that Marquette is loaded in '11-'12. I can't say how excited I am for that team. But looking at this team in Sept. 2010, as Miller must do, you can't tell me there aren't 10 teams in the nation that look like they have a better national title chance. If you want me to do that research I will name them, but the list probably looks pretty similar to the one in A.
But, if he's to be believed, he has a list of six schools. Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Baylor, Louisville, and Marquette. So with that in mind, let's take another look at your list...
A) Duke, Kentucky, and Syracuse definitely give him more exposure. Louisville and Baylor are probably about on par with us. The Cards might edge us slightly, but not enough that I think it would be a deciding factor.
B) Kentucky and Syracuse have both had notable one-and-dones of late. Duke, as good as they are, usually keeps guys around longer. I can't think of any stud one-and-dones from either Louisville or Baylor.
C) With a player like that and our current roster developing, we'd have a definite shot. In all honesty, every team on the list would probably have a good shot, with Duke, Kentucky, and Syracuse again being the heavy hitters.
Now let's look at players in the incoming classes for these schools for 2011 (Using ESPN and Scout's Top 100)...
Duke: SG Michael Gbinje, C Marshall Plumlee, C Tyler Adams
Kentucky: SF Michael Gilchrist, PF Anthony Davis, PG Marquis Teague, PF Kyle Wiltjer
Syracuse: SG Michael Carter-Williams, PF Rakeem Christmas, SG Trevor Cooney
Louisville: PF Chance Behanen, SG Wayne Blackshear, C Zach Price
Baylor: None listed
All I'm trying to do here is play devil's advocate in Marquette's favor. Duke is bringing in two big men. Neither is likely to be a one-and-done, so they would have to be heavily considered, but playing time would certainly be easier here than it would there. At Kentucky, not only are they bringing in two power forwards already, but Anthony Davis and Michael Gilchrist are both potential one-and-dones. It might actually be hard to find a lot of PT with the two forward positions already having a pair of consensus top 5 guys already there. Syracuse also has a top ten power forward coming in, not a certain one-and-done, but a guy that would certainly seem to content for PT. And Louisville just inked a PF, has another big man, and is apparently over on scholarships already. There's no reason Slick Rick couldn't find room, but it's not impossible to think that they are looking less attractive with Behanen in the fold. Which oddly enough might make us and Baylor the two most attractive destinations. Both of us have scholarship room, provide a good conference and good exposure, and don't have much competition at the position. And we have Vander Blue, whom Miller seems to already have a good relationship with.
I'm not saying we'll get Miller, but looking at the recruiting classes of the most attractive destinations, I do think that there's every chance we will be in the fight for his signature.
Don't the bigs already know that big men flounder at Louisville under Pitino?
Some serviceable but never dominating.
Caracter...
Samuels...
Farley...
Palacios...
Huffman...
Johnson...
Padgett (who he took in)...
I know we don't have OUR share of standout bigs (last ones just being Barro, Jackson and Merritt), but he can make his MARQ for the Warriors than donning the red and black...and a seat on the bench. ;)
brewcity77
I like reading your posts more than mine because you haven't lost hope regarding Miller :)
A very convincing case certainly can be made for Marquette. I just don't think many recruits will look at us in that way. Miller is probably good enough to play no matter who else is on anybody's roster. The only team I think where it might be debatable is Kentucky. But one thing I can guarantee with 100% certainty, Quincy Miller thinks Quincy Miller is good enough to start immediately at every team in the country.
I hope you are right that we still have a chance, but I think Buzz should set his sights squarely on Mike Shaw. I think we have a better chance for a final 4 with Mike Shaw for 3 or 4 years than with Miller in 1, anyways.
Theres a question for everybody, would you rather have Mike Shaw for a full (or almost full) career at MU or Quincy Miller for 1 year?
I'd probably say Shaw, but that year with Miller would be incredible.
I would love to see us land Shaw....and from what I have read (here and there) he is coachable and a team player willing to do what it takes to win and not what it takes to pub himself....think long term w Shaw
I'm not sure having a steady dose of one-and-dones (NBA farm club ala UK) is the type of program MU is looking to buil. I'd like to see MU stick with quality individuals that develope over their colligate career and earn degrees (not saying Miller isn't a quality individual).
Lets get Shaw!
I would like to add two other issues/questions to the discussion. How do we know that Miller is a one and done player? This is not a question about whether he is able to be a one and done. Instead, when I look at the schools that he has short listed, included in the mix are schools that are not normally one and done programs. Secondly, many members on this sight are still locked into the idea that centers (5s) play in the paint, as do powere forwards or 4s. However, it seems clear to me that Buzz does not think that way. He has perimeter players, and he has paint players, but what he prefers are those guys that fall in between the two--athletic guys with length who can handle the ball, hit shots from the outside, and are not afraid to go to the hole. If that is the case, doesn't Miller fit the bill for MU, where he won't be pigeon-holed into being a paint player only? Not saying he is coming here, but we should at least explore why Miller has included us on his short list.
^ good point, we don't.... that being said a class of Shaw (who also fits the above inside-outside bill) Miller and Bello wouldn't be to shabby... one can dream can't they
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on September 07, 2010, 05:44:46 PM
Don't the bigs already know that big men flounder at Louisville under Pitino?
Some serviceable but never dominating.
Caracter...
Samuels...
Farley...
Palacios...
Huffman...
Johnson...
Padgett (who he took in)...
I know we don't have OUR share of standout bigs (last ones just being Barro, Jackson and Merritt), but he can make his MARQ for the Warriors than donning the red and black...and a seat on the bench. ;)
Actually Pitino's track record for sending players to the NBA since being at Louisville really isn't very good. Considering he's landed alot of Top 100 talent..not many make the league. Off the top of my head I can think of Terrance Williams. Any other cards in the NBA right now?
Earl Clark was drafted in the same draft as Williams I believe. Although looking at his Wikipedia he was sent to the D-League in March.
Reece Gaines
Francisco Garcia
Earl Clark
Terrence Williams
Quote from: Ners on September 07, 2010, 08:09:48 PM
Actually Pitino's track record for sending players to the NBA since being at Louisville really isn't very good. Considering he's landed alot of Top 100 talent..not many make the league. Off the top of my head I can think of Terrance Williams. Any other cards in the NBA right now?
I think Reece Gaines and Francisco Garcia are floating around....and Caracter was drafted in the 2nd this year even though he transferred to UTEP. That's about it, so I absolutely agree that Pitino has done VERY little in developing his players relative to their expectations coming out of high school.
I would also like to discuss the concept that playing time plays a big factor in where a recruit decides to go to school. While this might be the case with most prospects, the select few that are ranked in the top 5-10 nationally do not care nearly as much. This seems to be especially true in regards to true bigs as they typically only stick for 1 season, then enter the draft, and are drafted on upside more than anything else. See Daniel Orton this past season at UK. He did very little on that team but was a 1st round pick and received guaranteed money. All that said, a guy like Miller can go to a UK/Kansas/Syracuse, play sparingly, yet still have a good chance of being drafted......thus I don't see playing time being much of a factor in Miller's recruiting case.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 07, 2010, 08:29:06 PM
Reece Gaines
Francisco Garcia
Earl Clark
Terrence Williams
I remembered Gaines..but he flamed out pretty quick..and didn't have much of any NBA career (I don't think he's still floating around the NBA, is he?) Earl Clark was thought to be a STUD out of HS..an absolute stud..he's one I forgot about..yet thus far he hasn't done much in the league..though only Year 2, correct?
Guess the underlying point is that Pitino is highly overrated for turning out pro talent - at least from his time at Louisville..comparitive to the level of talent he signs...as far as how they are regarded coming into L'ville
Quote from: 6746jonesr on September 07, 2010, 06:38:43 PM
I would like to add two other issues/questions to the discussion. How do we know that Miller is a one and done player? This is not a question about whether he is able to be a one and done. Instead, when I look at the schools that he has short listed, included in the mix are schools that are not normally one and done programs. Secondly, many members on this sight are still locked into the idea that centers (5s) play in the paint, as do powere forwards or 4s. However, it seems clear to me that Buzz does not think that way. He has perimeter players, and he has paint players, but what he prefers are those guys that fall in between the two--athletic guys with length who can handle the ball, hit shots from the outside, and are not afraid to go to the hole. If that is the case, doesn't Miller fit the bill for MU, where he won't be pigeon-holed into being a paint player only? Not saying he is coming here, but we should at least explore why Miller has included us on his short list.
I have seen it in multiple articles that Miller intends to be a one-and-done, and his recruitment has had the air of being for a one-and-done player from day 1. Also, NBA executives love his game, and players rarely turn down being a lottery pick.
Heres an article from a couple weeks ago.
http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2010/08/hs-rumors-quincy-miller-leader-myck-kabongo-de-commit/ (http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2010/08/hs-rumors-quincy-miller-leader-myck-kabongo-de-commit/)
"A reliable source said that Miller wants to commit to Louisville, but is worried that Cards coach Rick Pitino could potentially hold him back from being a one-and-done player."
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 07, 2010, 09:20:00 PM
I have seen it in multiple articles that Miller intends to be a one-and-done, and his recruitment has had the air of being for a one-and-done player from day 1. Also, NBA executives love his game, and players rarely turn down being a lottery pick.
Heres an article from a couple weeks ago.
http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2010/08/hs-rumors-quincy-miller-leader-myck-kabongo-de-commit/ (http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2010/08/hs-rumors-quincy-miller-leader-myck-kabongo-de-commit/)
"A reliable source said that Miller wants to commit to Louisville, but is worried that Cards coach Rick Pitino could potentially hold him back from being a one-and-done player."
I agree with the reliable source. Pitino seemingly has a way of stunting players development.
I can't believe I'm the only one who has figured it out, this will be just like Wade, Bosh and Lebron.
Rivers will be on a special on ESPN and announce that he didn't want to get hopes up in Milwaukee until he was sure, so he pretended MU wasn't even on the list, but is coming. Then Miller and Shaw will emerge from behind the curtain to announce they all had a secret bond to sign with the same team, and all signing with Marquette. MU will be the first 40-0 team in history, and first undefeated team since the Indiana squad that beat us in the Elite 8.
Seriously though, the great news is that Buzz has stocked the roster so deep that he can seriously take a shot at Miller and Shaw. I know some are impatient for someone to sign, but I'd rather have him playing for Miller and Shaw as long as we are on their list, period. You land one, and we have Final 4 potential. You don't, and we are still loaded for 2011-12. If the cubbard was bare he'd have to put the full court press on the 200th best player in the country just to make sure we weren't playing a 6-man rotation again.
Putting a big man in the lottery would be a huge card for Buzz to have in his hands when making his recruiting pitch.
I thought our big man recruiting progression would be projects until Buzz proves he can develop one or two in solid Big East players, then consistent 4-stars rated 50-100, and then Buzz would get into the convo for top-50/5-star big men. This would allow to skip a lot of steps and get right in there with Georgetown-type programs with a track record with top 5 bigs.
Heck, the player who spent the most time playing the 5 last year was a first round pick, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. Marquette is a great opportunity for a big man, it just never seemed like Crean and Buzz could ever communicate that.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on September 09, 2010, 10:05:29 AM
Putting a big man in the lottery would be a huge card for Buzz to have in his hands when making his recruiting pitch.
I thought our big man recruiting progression would be projects until Buzz proves he can develop one or two in solid Big East players, then consistent 4-stars rated 50-100, and then Buzz would get into the convo for top-50/5-star big men. This would allow to skip a lot of steps and get right in there with Georgetown-type programs with a track record with top 5 bigs.
Heck, the player who spent the most time playing the 5 last year was a first round pick, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. Marquette is a great opportunity for a big man, it just never seemed like Crean and Buzz could ever communicate that.
Think the bolded parts above explain the challenges TC and Buzz would face recruiting a "big" to MU. That said..I don't think we'll land Miller..but do think Buzz will land a Top 100 Big..possibly Shaw..if not this year..then likely next. If Jimmy Butler makes the NBA/gets drafted..that will continue to help recruiting efforts..even with bigs...as that will be 3 players in 3 years that make the league..that is consistent..andwhat a kid/family would be looking for in selecting a school.
Someone in the know correct me if I'm wrong (bma), but didn't Buzz recruit DeAndre Jordan (top 5 big man) while at Texas A&M and another NBA big while at Colorado St.? I'm almost positive about the first, less so about the second.
Lets all pool our money together, shoot for $25,000, and send Quincy a nice fed-ex package urging him to come to Marquette. Other than Vander Blue doing some recruiting on his own, ala DWade with LeBron, this may be the only way Miller comes to MU. As much as I would love to see him at MU next year, I'm not getting my hopes up.
But seriously, lets pool some money together
Edited: He meant to use teal, as this is a joke.
Quote from: TheRock on September 09, 2010, 10:48:35 AM
Lets all pool our money together, shoot for $25,000, and send Quincy a nice fed-ex package urging him to come to Marquette. Other than Vander Blue doing some recruiting on his own, ala DWade with LeBron, this may be the only way Miller comes to MU. As much as I would love to see him at MU next year, I'm not getting my hopes up.
But seriously, lets pool some money together
Anyone that suggests this should be banned from this site.
Quote from: bilsu on September 09, 2010, 11:03:24 AM
Anyone that suggests this should be banned from this site.
I guess I forgot my teal pencil
Quote from: TheRock on September 09, 2010, 11:04:18 AM
I guess I forgot my teal pencil
I would have the same reaction, if you put it in teal. It is simply unacceptable in my book.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you lacked a sense of humor...to clear things up for any others that think its simply unacceptable, I WAS JOKING, and by joking, I mean that I don't actually think we should do what I said we should do.
Quote from: TheRock on September 09, 2010, 10:48:35 AM
Lets all pool our money together, shoot for $25,000, and send Quincy a nice fed-ex package urging him to come to Marquette. Other than Vander Blue doing some recruiting on his own, ala DWade with LeBron, this may be the only way Miller comes to MU. As much as I would love to see him at MU next year, I'm not getting my hopes up.
But seriously, lets pool some money together
Don't want to gang up on you..but, this was not a case of good judgement on your part..even if you put it in teal. That said, I'm sure you didn't mean any harm in posting this...but in the future..would hope you don't make such suggestions, even in jest.
Quote from: Ners on September 09, 2010, 11:26:23 AM
Don't want to gang up on you..but, this was not a case of good judgement on your part..even if you put it in teal. That said, I'm sure you didn't mean any harm in posting this...but in the future..would hope you don't make such suggestions, even in jest.
My point in posting this is that I don't think we have much of a chance at landing this guy. Sure, we're in his final 5 or whatever, but this guy can go wherever he wants to. What makes him pick MU? My other point was that if we have any chance at landing this guy, Vander Blue doing some recruiting for Buzz may be the only reason why. He added us to his list after becoming friends with VB on the USA team this summer.
Point being, I don't think we have a realistic shot at this guy, but wow, would it be awesome if we landed him.
If you're going to do something like that, at least do it for someone that UW Madison is trying to recruit.
Quote from: Ners on September 09, 2010, 10:24:54 AM
Think the bolded parts above explain the challenges TC and Buzz would face recruiting a "big" to MU. That said..I don't think we'll land Miller..but do think Buzz will land a Top 100 Big..possibly Shaw..if not this year..then likely next. If Jimmy Butler makes the NBA/gets drafted..that will continue to help recruiting efforts..even with bigs...as that will be 3 players in 3 years that make the league..that is consistent..andwhat a kid/family would be looking for in selecting a school.
I agree. Consistently having 10+ conference wins and consistently developing guys who are on the NBA fence (Matthews, Hayward, Butler, DJO) and creating an environment for them to become NBA players is huge.
I am not sure how much recruits look at schools and say MU is good as putting wing players in the league and Georgetown is good at putting big men in the league and distinguish those schools based on the player they are. Or do recruits look at schools and say MU and Georgetown both put players in the league so they are a relative draw in that factor, so I can make it happen for myself wherever I go regardless of position.
I always wondered how Crean's recruiting pitch would have been had Scott Merritt turned into the NBA player many thought he would be. I guess we will never know.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on September 09, 2010, 12:01:14 PM
I agree. Consistently having 10+ conference wins and consistently developing guys who are on the NBA fence (Matthews, Hayward, Butler, DJO) and creating an environment for them to become NBA players is huge.
I am not sure how much recruits look at schools and say MU is good as putting wing players in the league and Georgetown is good at putting big men in the league and distinguish those schools based on the player they are. Or do recruits look at schools and say MU and Georgetown both put players in the league so they are a relative draw in that factor, so I can make it happen for myself wherever I go regardless of position.
If anything, top recruits look at draft position of players that played the same position they want to play at a certain school. For a kid like Quincy, he looks at lotto picks (not simply whether former players are in the NBA or not).
I love how seriously people take message boards....as if the NCAA are scanning the fanatics on various boards to sniff out cheating. Good grief.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on September 09, 2010, 03:52:34 PM
I love how seriously people take message boards....as if the NCAA are scanning the fanatics on various boards to sniff out cheating. Good grief.
Our compliance office is on here sniffing out messages
Quote from: TheRock on September 09, 2010, 11:32:38 AM
My point in posting this is that I don't think we have much of a chance at landing this guy. Sure, we're in his final 5 or whatever, but this guy can go wherever he wants to. What makes him pick MU? My other point was that if we have any chance at landing this guy, Vander Blue doing some recruiting for Buzz may be the only reason why. He added us to his list after becoming friends with VB on the USA team this summer.
Point being, I don't think we have a realistic shot at this guy, but wow, would it be awesome if we landed him.
I am someone that is quite proud that MU has never been on probation. You have to realize that your statement is on the internet forever for anyone to see. Should we sign a player of of Miller's caliber you are just providing someone with the idea that we paid for a player. I do not want to be associated with a Kentucky type program in any way.
Quote from: bilsu on September 09, 2010, 05:06:51 PM
I am someone that is quite proud that MU has never been on probation. You have to realize that your statement is on the internet forever for anyone to see. Should we sign a player of of Miller's caliber you are just providing someone with the idea that we paid for a player. I do not want to be associated with a Kentucky type program in any way.
+1
Quote from: bilsu on September 09, 2010, 05:06:51 PM
I am someone that is quite proud that MU has never been on probation. You have to realize that your statement is on the internet forever for anyone to see. Should we sign a player of of Miller's caliber you are just providing someone with the idea that we paid for a player. I do not want to be associated with a Kentucky type program in any way.
I agree with the bulk of the point made here, I think the joke was in poor taste, but the user could also choose to edit his post and delete what was written. Forever on the internet is usually a very, very short time.
Quote from: bilsu on September 09, 2010, 05:06:51 PM
I am someone that is quite proud that MU has never been on probation. You have to realize that your statement is on the internet forever for anyone to see. Should we sign a player of of Miller's caliber you are just providing someone with the idea that we paid for a player. I do not want to be associated with a Kentucky type program in any way.
Who am I providing the idea that we paid for a player? Yea, everybody reads every post on some fan website that only seems to discuss two things this time of year: things we have no clue about, such as where recruits are leaning, and the difference between tom crean and buzz and how they recruit/coach. We are merely dots on anyone's radar, if that.
The joke may have been in bad taste, but the conversation stopped and people were throwing out complete guesses about where they thought Miller will sign, even though NOBODY on here could possibly know, so I thought I'd lighten the mood.
I'd be worried if I was a MU fan/alum, because if MU signs Miller, people will now point to this very board as evidence that MU cheated to get a player. Come on now.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on September 09, 2010, 12:12:48 PM
If anything, top recruits look at draft position of players that played the same position they want to play at a certain school. For a kid like Quincy, he looks at lotto picks (not simply whether former players are in the NBA or not).
You know this how?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 09, 2010, 06:04:29 PM
You know this how?
Exactly, nobody could possibly know this type of stuff, unless they personally talked to a recruit or have been a huge recruit themselves. If you've read it somewhere, lets see the source.
Quote from: TheRock on September 09, 2010, 10:48:35 AM
Lets all pool our money together, shoot for $25,000, and send Quincy a nice fed-ex package urging him to come to Marquette. Other than Vander Blue doing some recruiting on his own, ala DWade with LeBron, this may be the only way Miller comes to MU. As much as I would love to see him at MU next year, I'm not getting my hopes up.
But seriously, lets pool some money together
Edited: He meant to use teal, as this is a joke.
Fyi, you didn't need teal for this fan to understand. In this day and age, sarcasm is a lost art.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 09, 2010, 06:09:14 PM
Fyi, you didn't need teal for this fan to understand. In this day and age, sarcasm is a lost art.
+$25,000
oh crap, should I put that in teal too?
yeah, well, I think everyone knew it was a joke, but it is not funny to even suggest, albeit facetiously, that we should be in the recruit buying business.
Quote from: TheRock on September 09, 2010, 06:17:22 PM
+$25,000
oh crap, should I put that in teal too?
It wasn't a good thing to say. You were just trying to say that it will be hard for MU to get Miller, it seems like. But, message boards can get taken out of context and can reflect on the school/program (see Vander's treatment on the Wisco message boards and the disappointment he had). Whether we like it or not, this board does reflect Marquette, even if it does not officially represent Marquette.
You are right nothing will probably happen. It's not worth joking around about recruiting violations from my point of view. No harm done, but you shouldn't be surprised that people would call you on that.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 09, 2010, 06:09:14 PM
Fyi, you didn't need teal for this fan to understand. In this day and age, sarcasm is a lost art.
I think everyone knew it was sarcastic and meant to be a joke. My guess is Bilsu and others didn't find it funny.
Good god, some of you guys take yourselves and this board waaay too seriously.
So then we all agree it should be more than $25,000.
Let's just make sure we're not using any phones that we shouldn't be, or overusing them...
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/report-tennessee-basketball-program-joins-football-under-ncaas-microscope/1 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/report-tennessee-basketball-program-joins-football-under-ncaas-microscope/1)
It was a joke. We aren't going to be put on probation for what a fan says on a message board.
I think we should spend the $80 million we spent on the new law building (including the $1,000 a piece chairs that are in there) on buying the top 3 guys in every class.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on September 09, 2010, 11:07:15 PM
I think we should spend the $80 million we spent on the new law building (including the $1,000 a piece chairs that are in there) on buying the top 3 guys in every class.
Isn't it too late to do that? I mean, the thing's already built....
Sarcasm is very hard to communicate correctly in text form because sarcasm is read by the inflection of one's voice not the assumption of one's intent.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 10, 2010, 10:57:13 PM
Sarcasm is very hard to communicate correctly in text form because sarcasm is read by the inflection of one's voice not the assumption of one's intent.
...and hence why sarcasm is usually a poor choice as a means of communication on a message board like this one. Teal at least lets people know where you're going, but even many of the "obvious" sarcasms might come across as offensive or in poor taste to the uneducated casual observer.
I hope you realize training new lawyers is more important to society than basketball players outside of the microcosm that is MU
Quote from: MUSig54 on September 10, 2010, 11:10:43 PM
I hope you realize training new lawyers is more important to society than basketball players outside of the microcosm that is MU
Vicious lie!
Quote from: MUSig54 on September 10, 2010, 11:10:43 PM
I hope you realize training new lawyers is more important to society than basketball players outside of the microcosm that is MU
Now THAT should be in teal. You really think society needs more lawyers?
(and notice how far off the Subject of this thread we are again. Sorry.)
Quote from: MUSig54 on September 10, 2010, 11:10:43 PM
I hope you realize training new lawyers is more important to society than basketball players outside of the microcosm that is MU
Nominated for senile post of the year
Quote from: MUSig54 on September 10, 2010, 11:10:43 PM
I hope you realize training new lawyers is more important to society than basketball players outside of the microcosm that is MU
Funny. I just spoke to a MU Law alumnus who, while very proud of Eckstein Hall, thinks MU's law school has gotten way too big and is churning out too many lawyers. He told me, and I have no idea if this is actually true or not, that only 25% of May's graduates have been placed so far.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 12, 2010, 07:40:27 AM
Funny. I just spoke to a MU Law alumnus who, while very proud of Eckstein Hall, thinks MU's law school has gotten way too big and is churning out too many lawyers. He told me, and I have no idea if this is actually true or not, that only 25% of May's graduates have been placed so far.
Not really that surprising, the class of 2009 only placed around 19-20% of their grads. Many college kids are having to move back in with the parents when they graduate because the job market simply sucks. No reason why law would be that much different.
Back on topic, my guess now is that Miller won't announce his destination until the early signing period. I just hope we can get him on campus by then, the news that he's going to Duke's Midnight Madness is a bit disappointing. Hopefully he can get up here for a nice fall weekend, get some quality time in with Blue, and decide that Marquette is worth spending a year or so at.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 12, 2010, 08:36:12 AM
Not really that surprising, the class of 2009 only placed around 19-20% of their grads. Many college kids are having to move back in with the parents when they graduate because the job market simply sucks. No reason why law would be that much different.
Back on topic, my guess now is that Miller won't announce his destination until the early signing period. I just hope we can get him on campus by then, the news that he's going to Duke's Midnight Madness is a bit disappointing. Hopefully he can get up here for a nice fall weekend, get some quality time in with Blue, and decide that Marquette is worth spending a year or so at.
True, but Shumpert also came to our Madness so that doesn't seal the deal. Not saying you imply that, but I know I get in the mode that I hear someone going to another team's Madness and think that means we've lost most hope. Miller would be a huge recruit. We have a lot of talent on our team, but it is very young. Get them a year of experience and bring in Miller and we could be looking at the start of something special. Regardless to be in on all these top level players with the young talent we have is very encouraging. If we land one or two, it will be tough to not set high hopes for the future.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 12, 2010, 07:40:27 AM
Funny. I just spoke to a MU Law alumnus who, while very proud of Eckstein Hall, thinks MU's law school has gotten way too big and is churning out too many lawyers. He told me, and I have no idea if this is actually true or not, that only 25% of May's graduates have been placed so far.
I'm certain the figure is accurate. A large part of that is the f'ed up economy and the other part is MU's law school borders on the third tier. Not even middle of the road. No hyperbole, just fact. In law, it does make a huge difference where you graduated. To make a splash, it's imperative that you graduate from a Top 20 program. Even at that, probably only 40% of May grads have positions, and most have deferred starting dates after the 1st of the year. Of course, Harvard, Yale, Standford etc. grads are in a different boat.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 12, 2010, 07:40:27 AM
Funny. I just spoke to a MU Law alumnus who, while very proud of Eckstein Hall, thinks MU's law school has gotten way too big and is churning out too many lawyers. He told me, and I have no idea if this is actually true or not, that only 25% of May's graduates have been placed so far.
You sure he wasn't just saying that there are too many damn lawyers in the world. ;D
How the hell does does a basketball board with a thread about a potential MU recruit get with lawyers coming out of MU. Who gives a rip about about shysters anyway?
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 12, 2010, 08:36:12 AM
Not really that surprising, the class of 2009 only placed around 19-20% of their grads. Many college kids are having to move back in with the parents when they graduate because the job market simply sucks. No reason why law would be that much different.
Really? Where did you get that figure? Because its simply not true.
The actual figure is that over 88% of May 2009 MU Law graduates have been placed. FYI, thats about 4.5 times your guess, but nice try.
Of course it has been over a year since that class graduated. But a little less than a year ago, when I was applying to law schools, the first employment data came out for the 2009 MU Law class, 6 months after their graduation (this is the interval when pretty much all law schools compile and release this data). Even back then, the employed rate was over 75%. I remember this clearly, as a school that would be able to place me with a good job was a huge priority for me. If you're talking about % of grads who have a job lined up the day they graduate, that number was just under 50%. Still not even in the ballpark of "19-20%".
While it is tougher than it has been to get a job in a long time, you can't just throw figures around without researching.
http://law.marquette.edu/cgi-bin/site.pl?2130&pageID=2171 (http://law.marquette.edu/cgi-bin/site.pl?2130&pageID=2171)
I've pretty much skipped through this all assuming none of it has anything to do with Quincy Miller (surprise). If I missed out on anything could somebody point me to the post? Buzz is making in-home visits with just about all the top recruits we've heard about other than Quincy. Is there any update on our recruitment of him? Thanks.
http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=59067
Quincy Miller tweeting confuses every fanbase in America
by Bryan the Intern @ 7:00 pm. Filed under Blue Blooded Opinions
Personally, I don't follow 17 year olds on Twitter. But, my good buddy Evan Daniels retweeted something from Quincy Miller 2 days ago, so I took a look at Miller's page, and was sadly entertained and confused at the same time. Miller either loves pulling at the heart strings of several fanbases in the country or he is greatly confused about where he wants to go to school. Just a couple examples:
"Yea if I went to Kentucky that'll be ridiculous. Best class eva."
Within the same hour, he also tweets:
"Wayne Blackshear is my homie...we've talked about playing together multiple times"
Suggesting that Louisville would be a very possible option. That is until 6 MINUTES LATER, when Miller tweets:
"Final Four: Duke, UK, Syracuse, Baylor"
OK, so maybe Louisville is not an option. But then again, just 3 MINUTES LATER, Miller says:
"Me and Duece (Bello) would like to be a package but we have to do what's best for us."
Bello has been reported to likely go to Louisville, so several tweets suggest Louisville, yet he doesn't include them in his final list. Which only gets larger when just 17 MINUTES after posting his Final 4 list he tweets:
"Yea I just added Marquette to my list."
OK, I guess his list is now 5. Or is it? Because just 2 MINUTES after the Marquette tweet, he says:
"Yess I'm still considering Louisville."
So to recap, in a matter of 19 minutes, Quincy Miller's list went from 4 to 6 teams. Some would argue he is just a teenager looking for attention, and others would say he truly doesn't know what he wants to do. It's probably an answer in the middle, but Miller does also say he may make a decision sooner than people think, but since I thought he was going to decide in 2017, I'm not holding my breath.
Also, in honor of Tony Wroten, one last Miller tweet:
"Yes I think I'm the number one player in the class and so does everybody else"
On that note, I am no longer going to post any more Twitter articles and I need a hot shower to wash the dirtiness off me.
Quote from: TomW1365 on September 13, 2010, 01:14:25 PM
http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=59067
Quincy Miller tweeting confuses every fanbase in America
by Bryan the Intern @ 7:00 pm. Filed under Blue Blooded Opinions
Personally, I don't follow 17 year olds on Twitter. But, my good buddy Evan Daniels retweeted something from Quincy Miller 2 days ago, so I took a look at Miller's page, and was sadly entertained and confused at the same time. Miller either loves pulling at the heart strings of several fanbases in the country or he is greatly confused about where he wants to go to school. Just a couple examples:
"Yea if I went to Kentucky that'll be ridiculous. Best class eva."
Within the same hour, he also tweets:
"Wayne Blackshear is my homie...we've talked about playing together multiple times"
Suggesting that Louisville would be a very possible option. That is until 6 MINUTES LATER, when Miller tweets:
"Final Four: Duke, UK, Syracuse, Baylor"
OK, so maybe Louisville is not an option. But then again, just 3 MINUTES LATER, Miller says:
"Me and Duece (Bello) would like to be a package but we have to do what's best for us."
Bello has been reported to likely go to Louisville, so several tweets suggest Louisville, yet he doesn't include them in his final list. Which only gets larger when just 17 MINUTES after posting his Final 4 list he tweets:
"Yea I just added Marquette to my list."
OK, I guess his list is now 5. Or is it? Because just 2 MINUTES after the Marquette tweet, he says:
"Yess I'm still considering Louisville."
So to recap, in a matter of 19 minutes, Quincy Miller's list went from 4 to 6 teams. Some would argue he is just a teenager looking for attention, and others would say he truly doesn't know what he wants to do. It's probably an answer in the middle, but Miller does also say he may make a decision sooner than people think, but since I thought he was going to decide in 2017, I'm not holding my breath.
Also, in honor of Tony Wroten, one last Miller tweet:
"Yes I think I'm the number one player in the class and so does everybody else"
On that note, I am no longer going to post any more Twitter articles and I need a hot shower to wash the dirtiness off me.
I posted this earlier in this thread. Too bad it got lost in the shuffle:
This writer clearly did not understand the context of those tweets. At the time, Miller was doing an online chat for Slam Magazine, and his answers were linked to his twitter account. If you look at the tweets only, then yes, it does get confusing. However, if you read the chat, they make sense.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on September 13, 2010, 01:23:11 PM
I posted this earlier in this thread. Too bad it got lost in the shuffle:
This writer clearly did not understand the context of those tweets. At the time, Miller was doing an online chat for Slam Magazine, and his answers were linked to his twitter account. If you look at the tweets only, then yes, it does get confusing. However, if you read the chat, they make sense.
I figured it was on one of the 7 pages on this thread... This off season has been torture. I can't wait for some big news and the season to get started.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 12, 2010, 02:05:57 PM
Really? Where did you get that figure? Because its simply not true.
Actually, it is true, you just misinterpreted what I was saying. The figure of 19-20% is in terms of all college grads across the country, not just Marquette, or just law degrees (or just Marquette law degrees, for that matter). Also partially my fault for not clarifying, but really just a simple misunderstanding :)
Sorry to get back on topic, but...
Reggie Rankin says, "Just spoke with ESPNU 100 PF Quincy Miller who says he is meeting with Marquette and Duke today."
Also we saw Faust yesterday. Certainly talking to a lot of great 2011, but also a lot of top 2012s this past week.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 16, 2010, 02:35:32 PM
Sorry to get back on topic, but...
Reggie Rankin says, "Just spoke with ESPNU 100 PF Quincy Miller who says he is meeting with Marquette and Duke today."
Also we saw Faust yesterday. Certainly talking to a lot of great 2011, but also a lot of top 2012s this past week.
Very good news...I'm just happy to hear that we got a meeting with Q Miller. Have we ever had a meeting with a player rated this high?
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 16, 2010, 02:35:32 PM
Reggie Rankin says, "Just spoke with ESPNU 100 PF Quincy Miller who says he is meeting with Marquette and Duke today."
Whether we sign Miller or not, it's a pleasure to read quotes like the one above.
Has the summer gone so poorly that some MU fans are happy just to have a meeting with a recruit rather then have a realistic chance of landing a commitment?
Egads.
There are no moral victories in recruiting. High time we actually landed someone.
When the # 2 player in the country adds us to his list in Sept, I think that means we are doing something right. 10 years ago we might have been happy if a top 100 added us to his list in Sept.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
Has the summer gone so poorly that some MU fans are happy just to have a meeting with a recruit rather then have a realistic chance of landing a commitment?
Egads.
I think the point is that in order to land such a high prospect, you first need to be on their final list and set up official visits with them. While this still leaves only a 25% chance of gaining a committment (based on a final list of 4 schools), the simple fact that we have a 25% chance of this is something that this program isn't accustomed to. So to answer your question, yes I am happy about these meetings. Increasing the amount of high prospect meetings/visits increases MU's chances of actually landing one. So the more meetings they get, the better IMO.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
Has the summer gone so poorly that some MU fans are happy just to have a meeting with a recruit rather then have a realistic chance of landing a commitment?
Things have goone poorly???
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 16, 2010, 03:48:35 PM
Things have goone poorly???
Yea, what has been so bad about this summer? I'd wait until we miss out on these targets before declaring this summer poor or a failure.
Also, I think some of the reason people are excited about this news is that nobody really knew how serious Miller was about us. This meeting shows that he is still giving us at least some consideration. I don't know about you, but that makes me happy and excited.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
Has the summer gone so poorly that some MU fans are happy just to have a meeting with a recruit rather then have a realistic chance of landing a commitment?
Egads.
We've had our dispute in the past about the Newbill situation and I owed you one on that, but it increasingly seems you take a pessimistic approach to our program of late. What gives? Are you disappointed with the current roster, and talent on the current MU roster? What are your expectations for these 3 scholarship openings? Did you think it would be easy to land 3 Top 100 kids for this class, considering all of the Top 100 talent on the roster already/JUCO 1st team All-Americans?
Put me in the camp that is happy to see us get a metting with Quincy Miller. That tells me we are still somewhat in the running..and for that I'm happy.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
Has the summer gone so poorly that some MU fans are happy just to have a meeting with a recruit rather then have a realistic chance of landing a commitment?
Egads.
What on earth are you smoking? This isn't just a recruit...this is the type of recruit that other top recruits in future classes are looking at and paying attention to. if you think it's not important to the program to stay on his list as long as possible and have real substantial contact with him that's widely reported, then I don't know what to tell you.
When was the last time Marquette was involved this late in the game with a consensus top-5 kid? Ever?
This will reap future dividends, even if we don't land him. It makes Marquette a real option that's maybe worth looking into for future elite players.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on September 16, 2010, 04:26:40 PM
This isn't just a recruit...this is the type of recruit that other top recruits in future classes are looking at and paying attention to. if you think it's not important to the program to stay on his list as long as possible and have real substantial contact with him that's widely reported
Great point.
Hopefully, Buzz can get him to come for an official visit. Remember, top players want to play with other top guys... I have to think that playing with Blue on the USA team opened Miller's eyes to the MU program.
Buzz has gotten 5-star players interested every year he has been here.
We had Michael Snaer come to campus before Buzz's first season if I remember correctly. http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Michael-Snaer-67905
We had Vander last year come to Midnight Madness, and Buzz landed him.
Now, hopefully Buzz can get Miller to campus for a look.
Buzz is doing all right with five star players, but let's keep the trend going.
We were also in on Dawson and Blackshear.
Just watched a youtube video of this kid... ridiculous. You put a starting five of him, crowder, djo, blue and cadougan and I'm pretty positive we have the Big East crown locked up
And by the way, he tweeted today that the doctor said he still has another 2 or 3 inches to grow. A 7' flying around like that is unbelievable
Where did MU meet with Quincy today? In-home??
Quote from: HoopsMalone on September 16, 2010, 05:08:14 PM
Buzz has gotten 5-star players interested every year he has been here.
We had Michael Snaer come to campus before Buzz's first season if I remember correctly. http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Michael-Snaer-67905
We had Vander last year come to Midnight Madness, and Buzz landed him.
Now, hopefully Buzz can get Miller to campus for a look.
Buzz is doing all right with five star players, but let's keep the trend going.
don't disagree at all...but I'm willing to bet there's a big difference between a 5-star like Michael Snaer and a consensus top-5 player like Quincy Miller in terms of the type of buzz they generate amongst their peers and how closely their every moves are followed.
Quote from: Ners on September 16, 2010, 04:01:37 PM
We've had our dispute in the past about the Newbill situation and I owed you one on that, but it increasingly seems you take a pessimistic approach to our program of late. What gives? Are you disappointed with the current roster, and talent on the current MU roster? What are your expectations for these 3 scholarship openings? Did you think it would be easy to land 3 Top 100 kids for this class, considering all of the Top 100 talent on the roster already/JUCO 1st team All-Americans?
Put me in the camp that is happy to see us get a metting with Quincy Miller. That tells me we are still somewhat in the running..and for that I'm happy.
Ners, we all know your level of loyalty. We've been down this road before. I've written my feelings on Buzz to you in private and that hasn't changed.
That said, I'm not the only MU fan who feels the summer hasn't gone well. We've made a couple PR blunders. And, more importantly to this thread, our recruiting has been stressing. Zeroed in on a tight group of prospects and we've seen them land elsewhere even if we offered a strong package. We're on our next wave but the tea leaves suggest more of the same. Add that to the majority of our competitors doing very well and you can understand why the bum is getting a little squeaky.
We've been down this "meeting" road before. The last guy had visits, in-homes, sit downs with some top prospects through the years but our chances of a commit were remote at best. We found out that Crean couldn't go back-to-back. We're learning to see if Buzz can achieve that. Until I see some concrete goodness, a meeting like this won't get me excited. Hey, we all have different levels of interest. That was my main point.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 08:23:00 PM
Ners, we all know your level of loyalty. We've been down this road before. I've written my feelings on Buzz to you in private and that hasn't changed.
That said, I'm not the only MU fan who feels the summer hasn't gone well. We've made a couple PR blunders. And, more importantly to this thread, our recruiting has been stressing. Zeroed in on a tight group of prospects and we've seen them land elsewhere even if we offered a strong package. We're on our next wave but the tea leaves suggest more of the same. Add that to the majority of our competitors doing very well and you can understand why the bum is getting a little squeaky.
I think the final story on this year has yet to be written. This could still turn out to be a very, very nice fall.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 08:23:00 PM
Ners, we all know your level of loyalty. We've been down this road before. I've written my feelings on Buzz to you in private and that hasn't changed.
That said, I'm not the only MU fan who feels the summer hasn't gone well. We've made a couple PR blunders. And, more importantly to this thread, our recruiting has been stressing. Zeroed in on a tight group of prospects and we've seen them land elsewhere even if we offered a strong package. We're on our next wave but the tea leaves suggest more of the same. Add that to the majority of our competitors doing very well and you can understand why the bum is getting a little squeaky.
We've been down this "meeting" road before. The last guy had visits, in-homes, sit downs with some top prospects through the years but our chances of a commit were remote at best. We found out that Crean couldn't go back-to-back. We're learning to see if Buzz can achieve that. Until I see some concrete goodness, a meeting like this won't get me excited. Hey, we all have different levels of interest. That was my main point.
If you really think the recruiting under Buzz has been equal to Crean...well you're wrong. I understand the "oh, we're on another top 3 list" thing....but guess what? We were never on this many, and have been on much more in the past 3 years than Crean was in any 5 year period.
Seriously, everyone is really freaking out cause St. John's and Rutgers finally got a few kids? They're kinda due. Let's actually see if Steve Lavin can still coach (if you think he ever could).
Oh and I would say the past 2 classes are the best example of going back to back than anything Crean ever did. God you people are picky.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 08:23:00 PM
Ners, we all know your level of loyalty. We've been down this road before. I've written my feelings on Buzz to you in private and that hasn't changed.
That said, I'm not the only MU fan who feels the summer hasn't gone well. We've made a couple PR blunders. And, more importantly to this thread, our recruiting has been stressing. Zeroed in on a tight group of prospects and we've seen them land elsewhere even if we offered a strong package. We're on our next wave but the tea leaves suggest more of the same. Add that to the majority of our competitors doing very well and you can understand why the bum is getting a little squeaky.
We've been down this "meeting" road before. The last guy had visits, in-homes, sit downs with some top prospects through the years but our chances of a commit were remote at best. We found out that Crean couldn't go back-to-back. We're learning to see if Buzz can achieve that. Until I see some concrete goodness, a meeting like this won't get me excited. Hey, we all have different levels of interest. That was my main point.
Doesn't seem like we've lost out on that many of our top prospects, other than Branden Dawson and maybe BJ Young (although it doesn't seem like we were ever very close with him). The rest of our top priority recruits (the top 8 or so) are still out there, and plenty of new guys like Juan Anderson and Quincy Miller have been added towards the end of the summer. Its easy to say the tea leaves say a guy will sign elsewhere, because every recruitment is a longshot due to the number of schools involved. But recruiting is often a volume game, and we have a higher volume of top level recruits looking at us than we've had in a long time.
It only takes 1 signing to turn this from a "stressed" summer to a great fall.
By the way...
@bigjaybee #mubb RT @DMcDonaldHoops 2011 Jarion Henry has visits set up to Oregon starting October 1st and Marquette starting October 15th.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 08:23:00 PM
And, more importantly to this thread, our recruiting has been stressing. Zeroed in on a tight group of prospects and we've seen them land elsewhere even if we offered a strong package. We're on our next wave but the tea leaves suggest more of the same. Add that to the majority of our competitors doing very well and you can understand why the bum is getting a little squeaky.
Ah, seems to me that our top targets have yet to decide... Faust, Harrison, Shaw, Hood and Anderson are still all uncommitted. These are the players that MU has been mentioned with for the majority of the summer.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 16, 2010, 08:23:00 PM
Ners, we all know your level of loyalty. We've been down this road before. I've written my feelings on Buzz to you in private and that hasn't changed.
That said, I'm not the only MU fan who feels the summer hasn't gone well. We've made a couple PR blunders. And, more importantly to this thread, our recruiting has been stressing. Zeroed in on a tight group of prospects and we've seen them land elsewhere even if we offered a strong package. We're on our next wave but the tea leaves suggest more of the same. Add that to the majority of our competitors doing very well and you can understand why the bum is getting a little squeaky.
We've been down this "meeting" road before. The last guy had visits, in-homes, sit downs with some top prospects through the years but our chances of a commit were remote at best. We found out that Crean couldn't go back-to-back. We're learning to see if Buzz can achieve that. Until I see some concrete goodness, a meeting like this won't get me excited. Hey, we all have different levels of interest. That was my main point.
Golden - I respect your opinions, but it just seems you have been pretty down on our recruiting this summer. Perhaps you are more of a realist, and I'm an optimist - but as has been written, we are still in the running for most of the players we've trageted. I do disagree with you that Buzz has yet to put together back to back good recruiting classes. Heck, he's actually put together 3 good ones..getting Jimmy Butler, then the DJO/Buycks/Cadougan/Williams class, then Blue, Jones, Reggie, Jamil Wilson, and Devante Gardner. I've written many places on here that IF (and a big IF) Buzz can land 2 or 3 Top 100 kids in this class....we have almost ALL the proof we need that we are now a BIG TIME, elite-level program, where players are coming to play, as they perceive MU as being a great place to best develop their skills and compete for National Championships.
Was Quincy Miller on campus yesterday?
I need to agree with the rest of the board in absolutely categorically disagreeing with Golden Avalanche. As far as lacking the ability to put back to back classes together you are simply absurd!!!!! Buzzes first two classes are arguably as strong as Creans only two good classes in 9 years. crean signed 2 good classes in 9 years the class of Wade, odb, merrit, etc. and the 3 amigoes class. his other classes apart form 3 or 4 good players were not very good at all. Buzz has signed two top 20 classes in a row.
Mu has lost one big time target where they had invested a ton of time and that was Dawson. the kid went to Michigan state. Losing a mcdonalds all american to MSU is no embarrassment. the fact that he was on our campus multiple times and that he listed us so highly agianst an MSU is awesome. Apart from Dawson buzz has been really hard in on 6 or 7 kids...they all list us as a finalist. You are either entirely ignorant or simply trying to push peoples button. If buzz signs 2 or more of his top targets he will have now 3 classes equal to or greater than any class Crean signed in 9 years.
Miller is visiting Oklahoma on the 8th and then attending Duke's CTC (Countdown to Craziness) on the 15th....and there's a new development with Duke's recruiting plans that is going to raise the stakes....
I would REALLY love for Buzz to get this guy but Duke will put on a BIG time push for him now that Austin Rivers had a three hour in home that included dinner with Roy Williams on Tuesday and has scheduled an OV to UNC as well.....Doc really likes Roy and UNC and he's the one who has been working to get Austin to see that Roy will help develop his game far more than K will......insiders are now saying it could potentially be Harrison Barnes redux for K and the dookies are really starting to sweat. Look for K to pressure Miller for a commit at CTC.
Quote from: Ners on September 17, 2010, 08:55:14 AM
Golden - I respect your opinions, but it just seems you have been pretty down on our recruiting this summer. Perhaps you are more of a realist, and I'm an optimist - but as has been written, we are still in the running for most of the players we've trageted. I do disagree with you that Buzz has yet to put together back to back good recruiting classes. Heck, he's actually put together 3 good ones..getting Jimmy Butler, then the DJO/Buycks/Cadougan/Williams class, then Blue, Jones, Reggie, Jamil Wilson, and Devante Gardner. I've written many places on here that IF (and a big IF) Buzz can land 2 or 3 Top 100 kids in this class....we have almost ALL the proof we need that we are now a BIG TIME, elite-level program, where players are coming to play, as they perceive MU as being a great place to best develop their skills and compete for National Championships.
I think I'm just more of a realist. I'm certainly happy our recruiting net is larger. I'm also happy with the prospects we've been entertaining. That said, it hasn't resulted in anything yet and we may move into the meat of October without a commitment if word is to be believed from the back door. That's why I called recruiting stressing this summer.
I didn't write Buzz can't put back-to-back classes together. I wrote we're learning if he can. Jimmy Butler has been a great support guy these last two years. Other then him, his class has been a bit disappointing thanks to injury (that's the breaks). Last year's class suffered the same bug with Cadougan down, Buycks neutralized at end of year and EWill not doing much. This year's class has never played a game.
I don't disagree that the talent and potential sits inside the Al. But there are a lot of fans who are considering prospects who've never played as part of a great recruiting class. Or, players who've played wide spot duty as being part of great recruiting classes. We will learn this year how good the '09 class is in terms of production and not just how good they could be with potential. That's when we can say Buzz put together back-to-back classes (because I feel Blue and Jones will shine from the start).
It may all turn in a short time. Certainly a couple decisions are coming by the end of next week so let's see where we are then as it relates to recruiting.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 17, 2010, 07:21:12 PM
I think I'm just more of a realist. I'm certainly happy our recruiting net is larger. I'm also happy with the prospects we've been entertaining. That said, it hasn't resulted in anything yet and we may move into the meat of October without a commitment if word is to be believed from the back door. That's why I called recruiting stressing this summer.
I didn't write Buzz can't put back-to-back classes together. I wrote we're learning if he can. Jimmy Butler has been a great support guy these last two years. Other then him, his class has been a bit disappointing thanks to injury (that's the breaks). Last year's class suffered the same bug with Cadougan down, Buycks neutralized at end of year and EWill not doing much. This year's class has never played a game.
I don't disagree that the talent and potential sits inside the Al. But there are a lot of fans who are considering prospects who've never played as part of a great recruiting class. Or, players who've played wide spot duty as being part of great recruiting classes. We will learn this year how good the '09 class is in terms of production and not just how good they could be with potential. That's when we can say Buzz put together back-to-back classes (because I feel Blue and Jones will shine from the start).
It may all turn in a short time. Certainly a couple decisions are coming by the end of next week so let's see where we are then as it relates to recruiting.
This makes absolutely no sense. So our recruiting is stressing and we might not get a top class this year, yet we shouldn't call the last 2 years good classes because they haven't proven anything yet. Which one is it? Either you're going to look at what Buzz brought in based on recruiting rankings and potential and say that he brought in 2 top classes in the last 2 years, or you're going to wait 3 years to determine how the 2011 class is, regardless of when they sign and what they're ranked. Relax, we haven't made it to Marquette Madness yet and we only have 3 spots to hand out. In years past we've had 4 or 5.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 17, 2010, 09:36:16 AM
Buzzes first two classes are arguably as strong as Creans only two good classes in 9 years. crean signed 2 good classes in 9 years the class of Wade, odb, merrit, etc. and the 3 amigoes class. his other classes apart form 3 or 4 good players were not very good at all. Buzz has signed two top 20 classes in a row.
I made a similar point a while back, suggesting that Buzz had more talent last year than Crean's
least talented class of 2004. At that time most people disagreed with me.
Fast forward a few months, we now have people arguing that not only was Buzz's recruiting better than Crean's worst class--the're saying his recruiting is "arguably as strong as" as Crean's two BEST classes.
Back in June, the majority believed for whatever reason that Buzz couldn't possibly have had a team of good players--collectively his roster was arguably less talented than the 2004 team.
Now, suddenly those players (minus 1st rounder Lazar) when coupled with some highly rated incoming players (who have yet to see their first D1 game) are on par with Lazar, Novak, Diener Wes, Jerel, Dwyane, DJ and Rjax?
Why don't you all stop trying to figure out how to spin this as pro-Buzz/anti-Crean and join me in the common sense and objective view: Buzz's best recruits are arguably better than Crean's worst, but haven't yet proven that they deserve to be declared equal to or better than Crean's best.
Quote
Why don't you all stop trying to figure out how to spin this as pro-Buzz/anti-Crean and join me in the common sense and objective view: Buzz's best recruits are arguably better than Crean's worst, but haven't yet proven that they deserve to be declared equal to or better than Crean's best.
My this quote feels like ...... "Boy people, stop talking about the "Buzz vs. Crean" debate and take my my correct opinion in the "Buzz vs. Crean" debate"
just my thought.....
Quote from: DLange_MU on September 17, 2010, 10:25:55 PM
My this quote feels like ...... "Boy people, stop talking about the "Buzz vs. Crean" debate and take my my correct opinion in the "Buzz vs. Crean" debate"
just my thought.....
And your quote feels like "Damn, he's right, but the LAST thing I want to do is admit it public, so let me dodge the argument completely."
Why does it seem that EVERY thread evolves into a Buzz vs Crean thread in some way or another?
Why can we NEVER stay on topic?
This board needs to forget about Crean.....he's gone, he's not coming back and Buzz IS our coach and is doing a far better job that anyone on this board would have ever guessed the day he was named our new HC.....
Get over it people.....it's gotten REALLY OLD.....
Buzz is our coach and has done nothing to deserve anything less than our complete support.....now move on and let's start talking about the upcoming season....
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 17, 2010, 11:19:07 PM
And your quote feels like "Damn, he's right, but the LAST thing I want to do is admit it public, so let me dodge the argument completely."
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 17, 2010, 10:11:35 PM
I made a similar point a while back, suggesting that Buzz had more talent last year than Crean's least talented class of 2004. At that time most people disagreed with me.
Fast forward a few months, we now have people arguing that not only was Buzz's recruiting better than Crean's worst class--the're saying his recruiting is "arguably as strong as" as Crean's two BEST classes.
Back in June, the majority believed for whatever reason that Buzz couldn't possibly have had a team of good players--collectively his roster was arguably less talented than the 2004 team.
Now, suddenly those players (minus 1st rounder Lazar) when coupled with some highly rated incoming players (who have yet to see their first D1 game) are on par with Lazar, Novak, Diener Wes, Jerel, Dwyane, DJ and Rjax?
Why don't you all stop trying to figure out how to spin this as pro-Buzz/anti-Crean and join me in the common sense and objective view: Buzz's best recruits are arguably better than Crean's worst, but haven't yet proven that they deserve to be declared equal to or better than Crean's best.
LOL this guy. Don't question him. He knows all.
So really, you think the Tanned Thomas's WORST recruiting class at Marquette University is BETTER than Buzz William's best in his 2 years?! If we were talking about this in person I'd be laughing in your face right now.
So let's take a look. Tom Crean's 2007 class included:
- Scott Christopherson
- Patrick Hazel
- Trevor Mbakwe
I'm pretty sure you could combine Buzz's past 2 recruiting classes and throw EVERYTHING they have and will do away except for Junior Cadougan's combined like 12 minutes after rupturing his achilles tendon last year and Buzz would STILL have a better recruiting class than that. What a JOKE. Oh shoot, I forgot, Robert Frozena and Damien Saunders were in that class. Forget anything I said, that class was a DOUZY!
Buzz is better than Crean at recruiting, and we are all happy he is here. We got dumped by our girlfriend and are now dating a girl who is ten times hotter, and its a "how do you like me now" mentality towards Crean. Very fair I think.
The comparison is not completely fair, however. While Crean did have developing Wade and the Final Four to sell, he did not have the Big East and great facilities until the end. Buzz has the Final Four added to the Al years when selling the MU legacy on kids and now has top notch facilities and the top conference to sell. Though Wade probably deserves a lot of the credit for the MU renaissance, Crean does need credit.
Now, as far as being a talented recruiter, Buzz does have the edge. Even with a better product to sell than Crean had on some level, I don't think Crean would have gotten some of the players we have now, or get 5-stars interested who are not from Wisconsin like Buzz is doing with Miller and did with Snaer. I base that on Crean not being able to land any 5-stars arguably a top 5 program in the country all-time, though in fairness he has had some looks I think over at IU. It really should be easier at IU, even with the mess that program was in. MU came into what could have become a mess as he had no good underclassmen, but he took care of business.
The most important thing that suggests Buzz is a better recruiter is that he got players to come play for him as an unknown commodity. Crean was a very much known commodity and did well, but not as well as Buzz. Now that Buzz has proven that he can win consistently and put players in the NBA, his stock goes up even more.
Game coaching is a Buzz win by a mile. We have upgraded at coach, and I am so happy about that. I don't know what there really is to argue.
Yes it would be nice to have Quincy Miller. But I would definitely camp on Michael Shaw's and Nick Faust's doorstep. D'Angelo Harrison or Juan Anderson, one of those two wouldn't be bad either if we don't get Faust. Rodney Hood has to big of a list and he will go south. Shaw is the main priority. Come on Buzz get er' done. I think Junior and Smitty will be good PG's. Would like to see Vander do it.
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 17, 2010, 11:19:07 PM
And your quote feels like "Damn, he's right, but the LAST thing I want to do is admit it public, so let me dodge the argument completely."
It's funny how you argue the talent level of Diener and Novak, yet made excuses for them and their inability to get MU to the NCAA in 2004 and 2005. They were great players, but perhaps they were handicapped by their coach? After all we returned every player except DWade and RJax from the Final Four team..but weren't able to even win our first round NIT game in 2004??
Lastly, no, we have not seen the on court results of Buzz's recruits. That said, you list Novak, Diener, Wes, Jerel, Dominic and Lazar as the talented players Crean landed - all of these were Top 100 kids. So, most likely we can infer that the Top 100 kids Buzz has landed in just 2.5 seasons on the job: Cadougan, Williams, Vander, Jamil Jones, Jamil Wilson, Reggie Smith (105) - should produce similar results..unless our player development has gotten worse under Buzz..or the rankings of the High School talent evaluators have gotten worse. I tend to think our player development under Buzz will be equal to, if not better than we saw under TC.
;D ;D ;D 8-) Ithink Buzz has TC on game coaching and recruiting. Give TC a c+ in game and B on recruiting, plus keeping his hair in place. Buzz has him on both counts and doesn't worry about his hair. GO WARRIORS!!!!!!!
Quote from: Ners on September 18, 2010, 07:28:19 PM
It's funny how you argue the talent level of Diener and Novak, yet made excuses for them and their inability to get MU to the NCAA in 2004 and 2005. They were great players, but perhaps they were handicapped by their coach? After all we returned every player except DWade and RJax from the Final Four team..but weren't able to even win our first round NIT game in 2004??
Lastly, no, we have not seen the on court results of Buzz's recruits. That said, you list Novak, Diener, Wes, Jerel, Dominic and Lazar as the talented players Crean landed - all of these were Top 100 kids. So, most likely we can infer that the Top 100 kids Buzz has landed in just 2.5 seasons on the job: Cadougan, Williams, Vander, Jamil Jones, Jamil Wilson, Reggie Smith (105) - should produce similar results..unless our player development has gotten worse under Buzz..or the rankings of the High School talent evaluators have gotten worse. I tend to think our player development under Buzz will be equal to, if not better than we saw under TC.
while i am the last one that will ever defend creans recruiting I also dont think many people have really ever said diener and Novak were not great players...i think all agree they were. I also dont think many will say Crean handcuffed them they had the green light and alot of sets for them. Those guys did great on good teams if Crean ever held them back it was due to terrible recruiting Novak showed what he could do with good players when he was a freshman and Senior diener his first two years. ...problem was little talent around them.. the three amigos saved Creans ass and then he did the same thing to them
Quote from: wadesworld on September 18, 2010, 04:00:46 PM
So really, you think the Tanned Thomas's WORST recruiting class at Marquette University is BETTER than Buzz William's best in his 2 years?! If we were talking about this in person I'd be laughing in your face right now.
No.
*I* actually took the position that Buzz had more talent last year than Crean did in 2004.
Its Ners and Lenny and Jmeyer1 who who all argued that Tanned Tommy had
more talent in 2004.
And too bad we're not in person, because I'd get to see your face look something like this:
(http://redriverpak.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/emily-litella.jpg?w=320&h=240)
Quote from: Ners on September 18, 2010, 07:28:19 PM
It's funny how you argue the talent level of Diener and Novak, yet made excuses for them and their inability to get MU to the NCAA in 2004 and 2005. They were great players, but perhaps they were handicapped by their coach? After all we returned every player except DWade and RJax from the Final Four team..but weren't able to even win our first round NIT game in 2004??
I made a simple observation that the 2004 roster was Crean's least talented. Therefore, it was his worst performing.
And with a roster built around Lazar, DJO, Buycks, Butler, and Acker, Buzz simply had more talent last year than Crean did in 2004.
That's not an excuse--its just plain simple fact. We had nobody picked in the 2004 draft--just a couple a players still a year or two away. In 2010, we had a first rounder NBA pick THAT SEASON--and we STILL have two potential future NBA players in DJO and Butler.
My God, you're so afraid that someone might think less of Buzz if, gasp, we admit that he actually had some talented players.
Quote from: Ners on September 18, 2010, 07:28:19 PM
Lastly, no, we have not seen the on court results of Buzz's recruits.
That said, you list Novak, Diener, Wes, Jerel, Dominic and Lazar as the talented players Crean landed - all of these were Top 100 kids. So, most likely we can infer that the Top 100 kids Buzz has landed in just 2.5 seasons on the job: Cadougan, Williams, Vander, Jamil Jones, Jamil Wilson, Reggie Smith (105) - should produce similar results..unless our player development has gotten worse under Buzz..or the rankings of the High School talent evaluators have gotten worse. I tend to think our player development under Buzz will be equal to, if not better than we saw under TC.
Based on the 2 top 100 incoming freshmen that we've seen Buzz work with so far (E. Williams and Maymon), I would say that there is nothing to suggest that Buzz outperforms Crean in getting freshmen ready to contribute.
Its fair to say that Diener, Novak, the Amigos, and Lazar all made more significant contributions as freshman than either Williams or Maymon.
You and I both hope that Buzz DOES get it together with this year's incoming frosh. I hope that Maymon and Wililams were aberrations and not what we can expect from highly rated freshmen.
I sincerely hope that Buzz can get Vander to have a freshman year that is as good as Diener or Jerel had. I hope that Jones can contribute the way that Wes Matthews did as a frosh. I hope that Cadougan can come back from injury and give us what DJ did his freshman season.
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 19, 2010, 12:54:42 AM
I made a simple observation that the 2004 roster was Crean's least talented. Therefore, it was his worst performing.
And with a roster built around Lazar, DJO, Buycks, Butler, and Acker, Buzz simply had more talent last year than Crean did in 2004.
That's not an excuse--its just plain simple fact. We had nobody picked in the 2004 draft--just a couple a players still a year or two away. In 2010, we had a first rounder NBA pick THAT SEASON--and we STILL have two potential future NBA players in DJO and Butler.
My God, you're so afraid that someone might think less of Buzz if, gasp, we admit that he actually had some talented players.
Based on the 2 top 100 incoming freshmen that we've seen Buzz work with so far (E. Williams and Maymon), I would say that there is nothing to suggest that Buzz outperforms Crean in getting freshmen ready to contribute.
Its fair to say that Diener, Novak, the Amigos, and Lazar all made more significant contributions as freshman than either Williams or Maymon.
You and I both hope that Buzz DOES get it together with this year's incoming frosh. I hope that Maymon and Wililams were aberrations and not what we can expect from highly rated freshmen.
I sincerely hope that Buzz can get Vander to have a freshman year that is as good as Diener or Jerel had. I hope that Jones can contribute the way that Wes Matthews did as a frosh. I hope that Cadougan can come back from injury and give us what DJ did his freshman season.
Once again you twist facts and previous statements you've made. You argue and argued the talents of Diener and Novak, but yet offer no justification as to how these 2 talented kids couldn't get their team to the NCAA tournament..one year after being a Final Four team. If Crean had done a better job recruiting (and coaching) Novak and Diener wouldn't have been left to carry the 2004 teams all by themselves.
Lastly, Williams, Maymon, Cadougan, Blue, Jones, etc..didn't/don't need to make significant contributions as freshman, because Buzz has recruited enough talent and depth in just 2.5 years to where they don't HAVE to make huge impacts as freshman. Wes, Rel, Zar, and Dom HAD to play as freshman, because there were so many misses in our recruiting by Crean in 2003 and 2004..that we basically didn't have any decent players to start in 2005 2006.
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 01:52:01 AM
Once again you twist facts and previous statements you've made. You argue and argued the talents of Diener and Novak, but yet offer no justification as to how these 2 talented kids couldn't get their team to the NCAA tournament..one year after being a Final Four team.
I've twisted nothing--I've been absolutely 100% consistent that I thought 2004 was Crean's least talented year. I know we had Novak as a sophomore and Diener as a junior in 2004. That wasn't enough talent to get to the tournament--especially with 6 other NCAA teams in conference.
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 01:52:01 AM
If Crean had done a better job recruiting (and coaching) Novak and Diener wouldn't have been left to carry the 2004 teams all by themselves.
That was exactly my point all along--Novak (as a soph) and Diener (as a junior) weren't enough to carry the team. We didn't have enough talent in 2004. Add a 1st round pick like Lazar to that roster, and I'm quite confident that we would have equalled the 22 wins we had this year.
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 01:52:01 AM
Lastly, Williams, Maymon, Cadougan, Blue, Jones, etc..didn't/don't need to make significant contributions as freshman, because Buzz has recruited enough talent and depth in just 2.5 years to where they don't HAVE to make huge impacts as freshman.
First, let's recall that at one point you claimed the cupboard was bare. Now you claim the roster is so loaded with talent that we didn't need top 100 frosh to even contribute. So which was it? Bare cupboard or loaded roster?
Second, two posts ago you listed top 100 frosh by name and claimed that "
Cadougan, Williams, Vander, Jamil Jones, Jamil Wilson, Reggie Smith (105) - should produce similar results [as Crean's frosh]."
My reply: based on Buzz's experience with the two top 100 freshmen he DID have the chance to develop, he hasn't yet demonstrated that he is as good or better than Crean in that department.
The only response you could make was: "You're right. I agree with you that Buzz hasn't yet proven that he can develop frosh--I join you in hoping he can do so this year."
Instead, you twist the argument once again:
"Williams, Maymon, Cadougan, Blue, Jones, etc..didn't/don't need to make significant contributions as freshman, because Buzz has recruited enough talent and depth in just 2.5 years to where they don't HAVE to make huge impacts as freshman."
Okay. Fine. Except that its inconsistent with your previous claim that Buzz is as effective as Crean in developing frosh. NOW you claim Buzz didn't develop them because h
e didn't have to--because that "bare cupboard" was soooo deep that not even a top 100 freshman could even crack the rotation as the 8th or 9th man.
However, there's one more thing--even this new/twisted argument that the roster was too deep for freshmen to crack it is BS. Let's compare Williams and Maymon to Diener or Novak or Hayward. Diener played behind Dwyane Wade (so.) and Cordell Henry (sr.). Crean still found a way to develop Diener enough as a frosh to get him in the rotation for 24 mpg. Novak played behind Merritt (jr)/Townsend (so) and Crean still got him in every game on that loaded 2003 roster for 16 mpg. Hayward played behind Wes and Fitz--still got 15 mpg (and earned a starting spot by year's end).
THAT is how you develop a freshman on a loaded roster.
84 - Debating Maymon is probably ridiculous at this point...but..I believe Maymon did average about 4.4ppg and 4 rebs per game, and 15 minutes per game. Erik Williams? We'll see how his career plays out. Last year, not a lot of need to play him due to Lazar, Jimmy and Fulce essentially playing the same position.
As for this year's freshman - as is the case in most well run programs that recruit well year in and year out - the freshman won't HAVE to contribute a ton..as we have a lot of experience and talent as seniors and juniors in the program. No one would deny that Wes, Dom and Jerel played great as freshman - but like most comparisons, rarely are all things equal. In this case, the reality is there is ALOT more talent at MU, than there was when the Big 3 arrived on campus and HAD to start.
Obviously neither one of us are going to change each others mind - you will defend Tom C till death, and I will put forth that Buzz is a better coach and better recruiter than was Tom Crean. Crean did well at MU, but I just like Buzz ALOT better and see a much greater upside than TC. Time will tell.
And Joanie - In the meantime, I think you should spend less time here, and get out on the road and help your husband recruit, as it appears IU is once again not landing any top talent this singing period -even with all that PT available...and Indiana, being..Indiana.
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 02:33:31 PM
84 - Debating Maymon is probably ridiculous at this point...but..I believe Maymon did average about 4.4ppg and 4 rebs per game, and 15 minutes per game. Erik Williams? We'll see how his career plays out. Last year, not a lot of need to play him due to Lazar, Jimmy and Fulce essentially playing the same position.
So your argument is that Erik was caught in the same exact type of roster logjam as Diener in 2002, Novak in 2003, and Lazar in 2007.
Let's be fair: we played a six or seven man rotation that was ranked 341st in height. And you honestly think that we couldn't play a 6'8" top 100 forward because we WERE TOO DEEP at his position?
Maybe he was simplay a recruiting bust--a player not as good as advertised. Maybe Buzz couldn't or didn't get him ready in time.
But please, lets dispense with your BS that there weren't enough minutes to go around because we were too deep.
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 02:33:31 PM
As for this year's freshman - as is the case in most well run programs that recruit well year in and year out - the freshman won't HAVE to contribute a ton..as we have a lot of experience and talent as seniors and juniors in the program.
More BS. Well run programs start freshman ALL THE TIME.
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 02:33:31 PM
No one would deny that Wes, Dom and Jerel played great as freshman - but like most comparisons, rarely are all things equal. In this case, the reality is there is ALOT more talent at MU, than there was when the Big 3 arrived on campus and HAD to start.
Still More BS. Joe Chapman could have started ahead of McNeal (and did start 22 games the previous season). Fitz or Amoroso could have started ahead of Wes. And those guys were all better than Fulce--who you argued was one of the roadblocks ahead of Williams.
Of the Amigos, only James had to start because we didn't have any other PG options.
Of course we're not even arguing over whether Williams had a chance to become a starter--he wasn't even developed enough to even crack the rotation!
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 02:33:31 PM
Obviously neither one of us are going to change each others mind - you will defend Tom C till death, and I will put forth that Buzz is a better coach and better recruiter than was Tom Crean. Crean did well at MU, but I just like Buzz ALOT better and see a much greater upside than TC. Time will tell.
Your mind won't change because you decide everything by one thing and one thing only: what makes Buzz look best and Crean look worst.
Doesn't matter that Buzz hasn't yet developed a top 100 HS player into a solid contributor --you can declare he does a better job than Crean at player development, even though Crean has a solid record of bringing Frosh into the rotation.
When I point out Crean's solid record (and Buzz's lack therof), you change the subject. When I call you on that, you resort to your typical childish namecalling:
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 02:33:31 PM
And Joanie - In the meantime, I think you should spend less time here, and get out on the road and help your husband recruit, as it appears IU is once again not landing any top talent this singing period -even with all that PT available...and Indiana, being..Indiana.
Childish and old. Unfortunately, its rather typical from you.
84 - I will continute to call Joanie Crean, and be childish - but I can promise I won't make dumb statements like you've offered below:
The only response you could make was: "You're right. I agree with you that Buzz hasn't yet proven that he can develop frosh--I join you in hoping he can do so this year."
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 17, 2010, 11:19:07 PM
And your quote feels like "Damn, he's right, but the LAST thing I want to do is admit it public, so let me dodge the argument completely."
It is quite mature to make statements such as the above. That said, I'm not surprised, considering your long-standing pat yourself on the back routine. At this point, I'm going to have to say, only a MAJOR LEAGUE IDIOT, would prefer to have Tom Crean as Head Coach at MU. Only a major league idiot would try to indict Buzz Williams for his development of freshman Top 100 talent (as he's basically had 1 available such player -Erik Williams). Only a major league idiot would suggest that Wes Matthews and Lazar Hayward and Jerel McNeal didn't make large strides in their production under Buzz Williams. Only Wes Matthews would say about how he was beign utilized as a senior, "I finally have the shackles off of me."
Seriously, why don't you just go be an IU fan - as your continued skepticism and negativity pertaining to our current coach is just reaching the point of absurd. One thing I can tell you is that when MU does win a Big East Championship in the near future, and does make an Elite 8/Final Four in the near future...and then continues to make NCAA tournaments thereafter - and not have a falloff that results in them going from a Final Four team to a2-time first round NIT tourney loser the following 2 years..I'll be sure to let you know: "I'm right, you are wrong." I have NO problem stopoing to your level of ridiculousness. Noentheless, I don't blame you for not being an IU fan, as if you like to watch winning basketball..well...you just aren't going to get it there.
Quote from: Ners on September 19, 2010, 05:54:12 PM
I will continute to call Joanie Crean, and be childish -
This says everything we need to know about your character.
Ignored. Good bye.
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 17, 2010, 10:11:35 PM
Now, suddenly those players (minus 1st rounder Lazar) when coupled with some highly rated incoming players (who have yet to see their first D1 game) are on par with Lazar, Novak, Diener Wes, Jerel, Dwyane, DJ and Rjax?
What's your point with listing the players above? Give Buzz 9 years at MU and then you can compare his best players with TC's best players. People are comparing recruiting classes. If you want to list players, compare all players. TC walked away from four of those players. Is it right to take credit for the good that comes from something/someone you quit on?
Quite frankly, Marquette84 vs. Ners is beyond annoying. I was hoping the 8th and 9th pages of this thread were going to be refreshing our info on the Miller situation. Unfortunately, it is a pissing match between you to. Save the back and forth bs for IMs, if you please and let's try to get on topic? I realize it's a message board, and it's fun for random, anonymous arguments-- LET IT GO!!!
Quote from: jtrash37 on September 19, 2010, 07:28:31 PM
Quite frankly, Marquette84 vs. Ners is beyond annoying. I was hoping the 8th and 9th pages of this thread were going to be refreshing our info on the Miller situation. Unfortunately, it is a pissing match between you to. Save the back and forth bs for IMs, if you please and let's try to get on topic? I realize it's a message board, and it's fun for random, anonymous arguments-- LET IT GO!!!
No problem, but..at this point, do you have any new information to add to the recruiting developments of Quincy Miller? Please go ahead and add whatever update you can provide. Threads on message boards will always go off into a lot of different tangents. Unfortunately, 84 must always turn everything into a debate of how Tom Crean's regime as compared to present was better - and though I'll pass on a lot of his babble, every now and then it needs to be checked/rebutted.
Yawwnnnnnn....time to get a good night's rest from this silliness.... ::)
Quote from: Nukem2 on September 19, 2010, 10:05:06 PM
Yawwnnnnnn....time to get a good night's rest from this silliness.... ::)
Do you sleep better now knowing that Buzz is MU's coach or was it easier to catch some z's with Crean leading the troops?
Quote from: Earl Tatum on September 18, 2010, 09:17:53 PM
;D ;D ;D 8-) Ithink Buzz has TC on game coaching and recruiting. Give TC a c+ in game and B on recruiting, plus keeping his hair in place. Buzz has him on both counts and doesn't worry about his hair. GO WARRIORS!!!!!!!
Every once in a while I see someone's handle on the forums and think... man, what if that was really who they say they are?
To get back on topic.... There was a Q Miller fbook post today.
Miller posted on Facebook today: "My list currently has 5 schools on it. Duke, Louisville, Baylor, Oklahoma and Marquette
Long shot, but good to get some ink I guess.
My gut feeling is that MU only chance is if Miller waits to spring to decide.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 20, 2010, 02:53:39 PM
Every once in a while I see someone's handle on the forums and think... man, what if that was really who they say they are?
So ZFB isn't really Ziggy?
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on September 20, 2010, 07:54:02 PM
To get back on topic.... There was a Q Miller fbook post today.
Miller posted on Facebook today: "My list currently has 5 schools on it. Duke, Louisville, Baylor, Oklahoma and Marquette
Long shot, but good to get some ink I guess.
We know he has taken an official visit to L'ville, we know he is also scheduled for official visits to Oklahoma and Duke....makes me think we MAY have a chance to get him to MU on an official visit. I think it would be a huge coup if we can get him on campus to hang around the guys/Vander in particular, and to have a weekend full of exposure to Buzz. Nonetheless, Quincy's list of schools is somewhat eclectic..and unique in the sense that the only traditional "power" on the list is Duke. I like our past decade of basketbal results just as much as any of the other 4 schools - if not more. Think we have more guys in the NBA than any of the other schools, and have the Final Four and now 5 straight NCAA's..
Wow! I believe in moral victories, and when was the last time a projected lottery pick had MU in his top 5? I'm honestly asking because I don't know, but would it be the 1970s if "lottery" picks existed back then? We have gone from half hazard mention to being spelled out by him in his top 5? And clearly with that list he is looking for something different then just showing he could go to ku, uk, unc etc. We are on the list for some reason, so let's dream but also consider it a coup just to be listed.
While Marquette was added to his list, he has dropped Georgetown, Illinois, Kentucky, Memphis, Oregon, Syracuse, Tennessee and Wake Forest.
So we were the only team that DIDN'T make his top 12, but has now made his Top 5. Obviously don't mind him choosing MU at least over 2 Big East Rivals even if Lville could still be the final.
One of ESPNs college basketball guys just tweeted that he just talked to Miller. Nothing really new here. A little disappointed to hear we are in the second "tier" of his top 5, but pretty cool we are right along Duke.
@PaulBiancardi Just spoke with ESPNU # 4 PF Quincy Miller-The leaders for his services are L'Ville , Baylor along with Duke,Marquette,and OU.He is BT!
PS... what is BT... Big time?
Miller would be such a game-changer at Marquette - and a showcase. Would love to have him.
Back to the topic... we're on Quincy's pal's list... from this afternoon:
RT @PaulBiancardi Just talked to ESPNU 100 D. Bello...it's Baylor, L'Ville, Maryland, Marq, Fla. St and Wake. Visiting BU next wknd.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 25, 2010, 06:21:58 PM
Back to the topic... we're on Quincy's pal's list... from this afternoon:
RT @PaulBiancardi Just talked to ESPNU 100 D. Bello...it's Baylor, L'Ville, Maryland, Marq, Fla. St and Wake. Visiting BU next wknd.
I'd say this is a VERY good development..and gives further legitimacy to the notion that Quincy Miller is serious about Marquette. Interestingly...Bello's list has does not include Duke or Oklahoma (Quincy's other 2 schools of interest outside of MU, Baylor and Louisville)..so the way I see it if Quincy is very serious about playing ball with Deuce Bello...it would come down to MU against Baylor and Louisville. Hopeful thinking and inference of course.
Bulging Taints
Until he comes for an official visit, I just can't see him committing to MU. If he winds up at Midnight Madness I officially get excited! (Is Dukes' Madness the same weekend as Marquette's?)
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on September 27, 2010, 02:04:19 PM
Until he comes for an official visit, I just can't see him committing to MU. If he winds up at Midnight Madness I officially get excited! (Is Dukes' Madness the same weekend as Marquette's?)
yes
From Quincy himself:
http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/2010/10/quincy-miller-diary-no-2/ (http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/2010/10/quincy-miller-diary-no-2/)
"My top five right now is Duke, Oklahoma, Marquette, Baylor and Louisville. My reasons? ... Marquette is close to home — even though I'm down in North Carolina, I'm still a Chicago boy — and I feel like they teach well and go hard ...So that's where I stand. If your school's not here, they're not on my list."
The question I have is...when did Miller actually write this? I know it was published today, but it might be old.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2010, 01:43:51 PM
The question I have is...when did Miller actually write this? I know it was published today, but it might be old.
It's likely old, given that he did an interview with Zagoria yesterday and we didn't make the final four he gave.
http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/10/06/miller-bello-talk-recruting-plans/#more-40573
As far as when he wrote it.. it appears to be recently.. based on him saying, "Then a couple weeks ago, we had this ScoutsFocus tournament down here in Greensboro."... which I thought was September 25th... i.e., 'a couple weeks ago'...
But.. he does sound definite on being down to 'four' in the Zags interview...
Getting confused by all these conflicting posts? Are we still in his top 5 or not?
It would really suck if he went to Louisville--what does slick Rick have to offer?
If he likes us because of proximity to home, that should be leveraged to the hilt (parents can see him frequently etc.)
Does anybody know if he is scheduled for a visit, and have we visited him?
Forget Miller....ain't gonna happen....
Quote from: willie warrior on October 07, 2010, 02:26:01 PM
Getting confused by all these conflicting posts? Are we still in his top 5 or not?
It would really suck if he went to Louisville--what does slick Rick have to offer?
If he likes us because of proximity to home, that should be leveraged to the hilt (parents can see him frequently etc.)
Does anybody know if he is scheduled for a visit, and have we visited him?
Buzz had a meeting with him, and it is clear that Miller gave us serious consideration. But yesterday's interview with Zagsblog should put to bed all hopes of Miller at MU. This diary post was likely written a few days ago before he made the cutdown.
Well that absolutely sucks...
Considering how the Miller recruiting has gone, I wouldn't say we're completely out of it until he commits elsewhere. He seems a bit erratic at times, and so many people are trying to out-scoop anyone else that it's possible we were never off his list.
That being said, I still think the focus should be on Shaw and one of Faust, Hood, or Harrison. If by some grace Miller and Bello show up and want to come to Marquette, we can cross that bridge when we get there, but until they have a visit, they're both long shots, and until they commit elsewhere, we can hold out a thread of hope. Basically, I think it's take it as you like :D