Georgetown gets talent every season and they are never great. I know Freeman was out and they aren't deep but why aren't they deep. They rarely go deep in the tourney. I don't understand how he is not on the hot seat.
Oh yeah, I have no clue how they destroyed Duke.
Why should he be on the hot seat?
Is this a serious thread?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 02, 2010, 01:43:30 PM
Why should he be on the hot seat?
Is this a serious thread?
What have they done?
One thing i wil say...is, at least recently, they start out very strong and then fade badly at the end of the season.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 01:37:38 PM
I don't understand how he is not on the hot seat.
Then you don't understand the politics of the situation. Being the son of John Thompson gets you a lot of leeway at GTown. It would take an incident like his brother had at Ball State to get him fired....and even then I have my doubts.
Lots of times, keeping your job has nothing to do with wins and losses.
Quote from: bma725 on March 02, 2010, 01:52:18 PM
Then you don't understand the politics of the situation. Being the son of John Thompson gets you a lot of leeway at GTown. It would take an incident like his brother had at Ball State to get him fired....and even then I have my doubts.
Lots of times, keeping your job has nothing to do with wins and losses.
This is why I asked if the thread was serious. As long as he keeps the program winning and getting in the tourney his job is safe as can be.
04-05 19-13 NIT
05-06 23-10 NCAA (32) Loses of Florida
06-07 30-7 Final Four
07-08 28-6 NCAA (32) Loses to Davidson
08-09 16-15 NIT
09-10 19-9 so far
[/quote]
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 02, 2010, 01:54:00 PM
This is why I asked if the thread was serious. As long as he keeps the program winning and getting in the tourney his job is safe as can be.
They didn't make the tourney last year and they had like three or four 5 star recruits. And they started the season in the top 10.
Quote from: bma725 on March 02, 2010, 01:52:18 PM
Then you don't understand the politics of the situation. Being the son of John Thompson gets you a lot of leeway at GTown. It would take an incident like his brother had at Ball State to get him fired....and even then I have my doubts.
Lots of times, keeping your job has nothing to do with wins and losses.
And this is exactly why hiring a legacy can get you in trouble. Mediocrity becomes acceptable in the present to pay tribute to the past. That said, to expect more success than Georgetown has had under Thompson is over the top. He fields a competitive team pretty much every year, and from outward appearances his players are good representatives of the university.
I'm guessing that the Final Four is earning him some equity still.
Quote from: Badgerhater on March 02, 2010, 01:58:02 PM
04-05 19-13 NIT
05-06 23-10 NCAA (32) Loses of Florida
06-07 30-7 Final Four
07-08 28-6 NCAA (32) Loses to Davidson
08-09 16-15 NIT
09-10 19-9 so far
This is my point. This is not good. Georgetown is about the third best recruiting team in the Big East. They definitely have to talent to be tourney favorites every year.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 02:05:41 PM
This is my point. This is not good. Georgetown is about the third best recruiting team in the Big East. They definitely have to talent to be tourney favorites every year.
If they're the third best recruiting team, that's a reason for keeping him, isn't it? Since college coaches are, in essence, the general manager and the coach, you can't penalize a guy for bringing in good players. College coaches are ultimately what their records say they are. They are better now than they were at the end of his father's reign and in the interim before he was hired.
If you were a Georgetown fan would you be happier if they brought in a great coach who didn't recruit as well but had the same results? Probably not.
Even if he wasn't a legacy, I don't see why he'd be in the hot seat.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 01:44:46 PM
What have they done?
Well, the back to back Big East Titles a couple years ago, coupled with a BET championship might be a good place to start.
A Final Four in 2007 surrounded by two NCAA apperances in 06 and 08. In '06 they were a 7 seed that lost to 3 seed Florida, and in '08 they were a 2 seed that was upset by Davidson (who alos beat 3 seed Wisconsin, and came this close against 1 seed Kansas) in the second round.
Last year in a down year, they went to the NIT. This year they will (in all liklihood) be back in the NCAA.
Why on earth would he be on the hot seat?
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 02:05:41 PM
This is my point. This is not good. Georgetown is about the third best recruiting team in the Big East. They definitely have to talent to be tourney favorites every year.
Its also why your point is silly. He should be penalized for being able to recruit? How many teams have had a better last 5-6 years than they have? Obviously there are some, but I assure you there aren't many. Looking strictly at the Big East you could say Pittsburgh, and perhaps Villanova and Louisville. Should Rick Pitino be on the hot seat too?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 02, 2010, 02:11:28 PM
Well, the back to back Big East Titles a couple years ago, coupled with a BET championship might be a good place to start.
A Final Four in 2007 surrounded by two NCAA apperances in 06 and 08. In '06 they were a 7 seed that lost to 3 seed Florida, and in '08 they were a 2 seed that was upset by Davidson (who alos beat 3 seed Wisconsin, and came this close against 1 seed Kansas) in the second round.
Last year in a down year, they went to the NIT. This year they will (in all liklihood) be back in the NCAA.
Why on earth would he be on the hot seat?
Why on earth would that team be considered a down year? That team had great talent that were upper classmen. And there is a chance that they won't make the tourney this year too.
And don't get me wrong, recruiting is extremely important but players are not stupid. If you are missing the tourney, they will start looking in other directions.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on March 02, 2010, 02:03:52 PM
I'm guessing that the Final Four is earning him some equity still.
Hey, why not? Tom Crean is still living off a final four that is 4 years older than GTown's last appearance.
I'm really not trying to hijack this thread...I think it is a valid point.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 02, 2010, 02:19:46 PM
Its also why your point is silly. He should be penalized for being able to recruit? How many teams have had a better last 5-6 years than they have? Obviously there are some, but I assure you there aren't many. Looking strictly at the Big East you could say Pittsburgh, and perhaps Villanova and Louisville. Should Rick Pitino be on the hot seat too?
He shouldn't be penalized for being able to recruit. But if you can recruit, going to the NIT is unacceptable ESPECIALLY when you started the season in the top ten.
As for Rick, its different because first and foremost, he has the hardware. Also, he lost some really good players from last season and last I checked, they still have a better conference record than Georgetown.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 02:29:32 PM
As for Rick, its different because first and foremost, he has the hardware. Also, he lost some really good players from last season and last I checked, they still have a better conference record than Georgetown.
Exactly what hardware is that? The National Title he won at Kentucky 14 years ago? He has been at Louisville 3 years longer than JT3 has been at GU, and has exactly the same number of FF appearances, and 1 fewer Big East Title, and 1 fewer Big East Tournament title to show for it. UL certainly is no lock for the tournament either. If MU wins tonight, using your logic, shouldn't Pitino's seat get hot?
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 02:29:32 PM
But if you can recruit, going to the NIT is unacceptable ESPECIALLY when you started the season in the top ten.
Attention Jim Calhoun, Roy Williams, Billy Donovan, Ben Howland...ErikJD08 says you are on the clock. Good grief.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 02:02:35 PM
They didn't make the tourney last year and they had like three or four 5 star recruits. And they started the season in the top 10.
Using that logic, Roy Williams should be fired/on the hot seat at UNC.
"Attention Jim Calhoun, Roy Williams, Billy Donovan, Ben Howland...ErikJD08 says you are on the clock. Good grief."
lol.....Don't forget Boeheim missed the tourny 2 years in a row not too long ago.......oh the horror.
Thad Matta missed the year after his final 4 run.
The key question to consider with regard to changing coaches is will the new guy be better than the old guy?
JTIII is no coaching savant, but in my opinion he is in the upper third to quarter of the talent pool. Who would you get that can come in immediately and make a significant impact with the players that JTIII recruited? GU is not going to fire him and bring in the next "hot" assistant waiting to get his shot and they also are not going to fire him to bring in the young coach from this year's Cinderella Sweet 16 mid-major. That leaves GU with those currently not in the business and those presently coaching other high-major programs. In that case, it costs a lot of money to fire GTIII and buy out someone else. Such a move, if the wrong guy is brought in, may trigger the mass exodus of that talent and render GU to the bottom of the BE for a few years.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 02, 2010, 02:43:20 PM
Exactly what hardware is that? The National Title he won at Kentucky 14 years ago? He has been at Louisville 3 years longer than JT3 has been at GU, and has exactly the same number of FF appearances, and 1 fewer Big East Title, and 1 fewer Big East Tournament title to show for it. UL certainly is no lock for the tournament either. If MU wins tonight, using your logic, shouldn't Pitino's seat get hot?
Attention Jim Calhoun, Roy Williams, Billy Donovan, Ben Howland...ErikJD08 says you are on the clock. Good grief.
Wow... where do I start? Yes, National Title is a better than a Final Four appearance. UL lost some quality players from last year. If they go to NIT, I would understand but most UL fans would see this season as a let down. And if Pitino produces back to back NIT seasons, I will say that fans will start scratching their heads.
As for Roy Williams, HE JUST WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. I don't think I have to explain the difference between Thompson and Roy. Also, if they look like garbage next season, people will start to chatter because UNC is an elite school and it totally is a "what have you done for me lately" environment.
Jim Calhoun... again, he is a champion. They had a great season last year and I think people are ok with a let down season every now and then. And he was sick for part of conference play. Again, NIT appearance is a disappointment and back to back would be a major let down.
Florida and Billy... again, he is a champion BACK TO BACK. Its a pretty amazing accomplishment especially for a school that cares 10x more about football than basketball. As long as FL is decent, Billy's job is safe. FL's basketball program is not UNC, UL, or Georgetown. Its like FSU, ND, or LSU. If you make the tourney every now and then, everyone will be happy.
As for Howland, he has back to back to back PAC 10 titles and Final Four runs. Big difference with Thompson. Again though, its an elite basketball program and it is a "what have you done for me lately" environment. If they are complete garbage next season, he will feel some heat.
Thompson is about to go back to back NIT appearances. For the talent he gets, that is not acceptable and most Georgetown fans would probably agree.
Quote from: MuMark on March 02, 2010, 03:05:24 PM
"Attention Jim Calhoun, Roy Williams, Billy Donovan, Ben Howland...ErikJD08 says you are on the clock. Good grief."
lol.....Don't forget Boeheim missed the tourny 2 years in a row not too long ago.......oh the horror.
Thad Matta missed the year after his final 4 run.
He won a national title. Big Difference. And guess what, he took two years to rebuild, but guess what, he has the top team in the country. I would take that.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:28:07 PM
Thompson is about to go back to back NIT appearances. For the talent he gets, that is not acceptable and most Georgetown fans would probably agree.
You are an idiot
If Thompson is on the hot seat then very few coaching jobs are secure. They won't be in the NIT this year.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:40:36 PM
Good post... mods???
You said Georgetown was headed to the NIT. My post was incredibly accurate.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:40:36 PM
Good post... mods???
mommy, mommy, that boy is being mean to me.
run to the mods to protect your lack of knowledge.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 02, 2010, 03:43:35 PM
You said Georgetown was headed to the NIT. My post was incredibly accurate.
I wouldn't be so sure. If they lose to Cincin, it would get hairly. And I think they will.
If you statement is accurate, then calling you a jackass would be equally as accurate.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 02:29:32 PM
He shouldn't be penalized for being able to recruit. But if you can recruit, going to the NIT is unacceptable ESPECIALLY when you started the season in the top ten.
As for Rick, its different because first and foremost, he has the hardware. Also, he lost some really good players from last season and last I checked, they still have a better conference record than Georgetown.
rankings mean nothing, ESPECIALLY before the season starts. Look at syracuse this year, now #1, started out not in the top 25. Rankings in basketball are not an indication of how good you are. Same with recruit ratings. Particularly early on, team rankings and player ratings indicate projections and expectations; while they are a barometer of some sort, they're hardly exact.
So if player X is a five star recruit, and performs like a 3 star recruit for his college career, then he is a 3 star player. If this happens to several players (mb not as extreme as 5 v. 3 star, but you get the picture) then there is a perception that the team is losing games it shouldn't. But if the players aren't as good as you thought they were, are they really underperforming? You might counter that the coach is then responsible for recruiting good, reliable players, which is true. Bottom line I think JTIII has done fine, Georgetown should have high expectations but even back to back NIT isn't enough to have him get the boot. Thompson + Georgetown= ability to draw talented players.
edit: added 2nd paragraph
Quote from: groove on March 02, 2010, 03:45:37 PM
mommy, mommy, that boy is being mean to me.
run to the mods to protect your lack of knowledge.
Please point out where I was factually incorrect. I'll save you some time. I'm not.
Quote from: muhoosier260 on March 02, 2010, 03:48:30 PM
rankings mean nothing, ESPECIALLY before the season starts. Look at syracuse this year, now #1, started out not in the top 25. Rankings in basketball are not an indication of how good you are. Same with recruit ratings. Particularly early on, team rankings and player ratings indicate projections and expectations; while they are a barometer of some sort, they're hardly exact.
Its not my point. They were ranked high last preseason because they had quality players and quality upper classmen. And they completely missed the tourney. They didn't suffer any major injuries. I think last season was a major failure for Thompson last season. And I think this season, he is not doing great either. So my point was that Georgetown is a higher end program and therefore GTIII might be in the hot seat after this season.
I do not see them losing to Cincinnati and with their 7 wins over top 50 RPI, 5 over top 25 RPI they'll be in with a win in the BE tournament 10-8 should do it. Not to mention a wins over Duke, a likely 1 seed, and Villanova. They've got a lot going for them on their resume, the only real slip is a L to Rutgers.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:48:07 PM
I wouldn't be so sure. If they lose to Cincin, it would get hairly. And I think they will.
If you statement is accurate, then calling you a jackass would be equally as accurate.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:48:07 PM
I wouldn't be so sure. If they lose to Cincin, it would get hairly. And I think they will.
If you statement is accurate, then calling you a jackass would be equally as accurate.
If you think G'town isn't a lock for the tourney, you are out of your ever loving mind.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:52:35 PM
Its not my point. They were ranked high last preseason because they had quality players and quality upper classmen. And they completely missed the tourney. They didn't suffer any major injuries. I think last season was a major failure for Thompson last season. And I think this season, he is not doing great either. So my point was that Georgetown is a higher end program and therefore GTIII might be in the hot seat after this season.
It is a high end program because of JTIII, a lot of history in that program but nothing that special in the recent years before he got there. It would be comparable to Crean being on the hot seat after the 3 amigos left.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:49:16 PM
Please point out where I was factually incorrect. I'll save you some time. I'm not.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:48:07 PM
I wouldn't be so sure. If they lose to Cincin, it would get hairly. And I think they will.
If you statement is accurate, then calling you a jackass would be equally as accurate.
Thats fine...I wont go crying to the mods like you.
You were "factually incorrect" when you said Georgetown was on their way to their 2nd NIT in a row. Even if they lose to Cincy...it wont get "hairy." They are a lock.
Quote from: LAZER on March 02, 2010, 03:53:15 PM
I do not see them losing to Cincinnati and with their 7 wins over top 50 RPI, 5 over top 25 RPI they'll be in with a win in the BE tournament 10-8 should do it. Not to mention a wins over Duke, a likely 1 seed, and Villanova. They've got a lot going for them on their resume, the only real slip is a L to Rutgers.
I understand all the quality wins but they could lose to Cincin and if they do, they will be 9 and 9. And there would be a chance they are 8th or 9th (not sure) in the Big East. I don't know why they are "locked in".
Georgetown #1 SOS in all the land
Additionally they have beaten:
Temple
Butler
Pittsburgh
Duke
Villanova
Quote from: damuts222 on March 02, 2010, 04:14:09 PM
Additionally they have beaten:
Temple
Butler
Pittsburgh
Duke
Villanova
There is a chance they end up 10th in the Big East. I think conference tourneys are going to be extra crazy this season with the parity in this year's season. I think 7 teams from the Big East will go and if Georgetown is 10th, they will be on the outside looking in.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 02, 2010, 03:59:19 PM
You were "factually incorrect" when you said Georgetown was on their way to their 2nd NIT in a row. Even if they lose to Cincy...it wont get "hairy." They are a lock.
I don't think so.
By definition, a lock cannot play their way out. Georgetown can.
Say they lose to Cincy--and then winds up with the 9th seed in the tourney. Their first BE tourney game will be against DePaul.
A loss to DePaul gives them an overall record of 19-11, 9th place in conference, six losses in their last seven games, including a bad loss to Rutgers and a VERY bad loss to DePaul.
In that scenario, I think the committee looks long and hard at Georgetown and takes them off the bracket.
I don't think its
likely that Georgetown loses to Cincy and DePaul in back to back games--but it is
possible. Which would put their NCAA chances in jeopardy, meaning they are not a lock.
They have to beat Cincy or they have to win at least one in the BET.
Conference standings are only one criteria. The SC can and has jumped teams from time to time. IU failed to make it in 2005 even though they finished 4th in the Big 10 with a 10-6 record. Iowa was chosen finishing 7th in the conference with a 7-9 conference record.
Repeat after me....its the total body of work.........
They can lose the next 2 and still easily get in based on their RPI, SOS, big wins and record against the top 50.
No BCS school with an RPI as high as GT's has ever been left out.
ps. The most accurate site as far as who gets in and seeding has been Bracketology 101. They said after losing to WV GT drops to a 5 seed. 2 more losses and they drop all the way out of the tourny?
Not going to happen........They have done more then enough to get in even if they aren't playing well right now.
Lets also not forget that Freeman didn't play last night and was sick and totally ineffective during the ND loss.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 04:25:19 PM
There is a chance they end up 10th in the Big East. I think conference tourneys are going to be extra crazy this season with the parity in this year's season. I think 7 teams from the Big East will go and if Georgetown is 10th, they will be on the outside looking in.
http://www.bbstate.com/school.php?s=GU&a=sheet
Committee members may be able to see the conference record, but rank within the conference never shows up on the main selection sheet and ultimately should mean very little to them. That 7-5 against top 50 RPI (with a good split of home/away/neutral) and #1 SOS should be huge for them.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 02, 2010, 03:36:59 PM
You are an idiot
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 02, 2010, 03:48:07 PM
If you statement is accurate, then calling you a jackass would be equally as accurate.
Ok....you're even. Now knock it off or you'll both get banned before gametime.
LOCK.
Quote from: MuMark on March 02, 2010, 05:02:18 PM
No BCS school with an RPI as high as GT's has ever been left out.
Keep in mind we're not taking where they are now--we're talking about where they would be if they lose the next two games.
The scenario would really be new ground. There really hasn't been a team with a high RPI that would have done as much as Georgetown has since Feb. 1 to prove they don't belong.
Quote from: MuMark on March 02, 2010, 05:02:18 PM
ps. The most accurate site as far as who gets in and seeding has been Bracketology 101. They said after losing to WV GT drops to a 5 seed. 2 more losses and they drop all the way out of the tourny?
Repeat after me....its the total body of work.........
Which in Georgetown's case under my scenario would include a 4-8 record in the last 12 -- including six losses in the last seven games and two very bad losses in that stretch.
I think that the committee would be hard pressed to ignore the body of work and rely solely on a high RPI earned in December and January.
The committee is known to give extra weight to the end of the season. If they lose their next two, the last 12 games Georgetown will have a 4-8 record--which is about as close to proving you don't deserve a bid as you can get.
If you'd be comfortable on selection day with that body of work, then we disagree.
I think they can still play their way out. They need one more win.
As you said I doubt we will find out since they are unlikely to lose out but if that did happen it sure wouldn't be good news for MU since as of now GT is our 2nd best win.
ps. Lunardi just said GT is a lock.
Does anyone know Jerry Palm? Maybe we could ask him.
simple... its a brother thing
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 02, 2010, 05:44:39 PM
Keep in mind we're not taking where they are now--we're talking about where they would be if they lose the next two games.
The scenario would really be new ground. There really hasn't been a team with a high RPI that would have done as much as Georgetown has since Feb. 1 to prove they don't belong.
Repeat after me....its the total body of work.........
Which in Georgetown's case under my scenario would include a 4-8 record in the last 12 -- including six losses in the last seven games and two very bad losses in that stretch.
I think that the committee would be hard pressed to ignore the body of work and rely solely on a high RPI earned in December and January.
The committee is known to give extra weight to the end of the season. If they lose their next two, the last 12 games Georgetown will have a 4-8 record--which is about as close to proving you don't deserve a bid as you can get.
If you'd be comfortable on selection day with that body of work, then we disagree.
I think they can still play their way out. They need one more win.
Despite the presence of the final 12 games in my link above, I believe they are either eliminating or heavily de-emphasizing that criterion this year, due to unbalanced conference schedules.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 02, 2010, 05:44:39 PM
Keep in mind we're not taking where they are now--we're talking about where they would be if they lose the next two games.
The scenario would really be new ground. There really hasn't been a team with a high RPI that would have done as much as Georgetown has since Feb. 1 to prove they don't belong.
Repeat after me....its the total body of work.........
Which in Georgetown's case under my scenario would include a 4-8 record in the last 12 -- including six losses in the last seven games and two very bad losses in that stretch.
I think that the committee would be hard pressed to ignore the body of work and rely solely on a high RPI earned in December and January.
The committee is known to give extra weight to the end of the season. If they lose their next two, the last 12 games Georgetown will have a 4-8 record--which is about as close to proving you don't deserve a bid as you can get.
If you'd be comfortable on selection day with that body of work, then we disagree.
I think they can still play their way out. They need one more win.
I can see them not playing because I think Cincin will pull out against Villanova and be extra motivated for Georgetown. I think USF's last two games are weak and are wins. If that happens, Georgetown would be 10th in the Big East and I just can't see any Big East team at 9 and 9 as a lock.
And my point is that last season was a huge disappointment and this season could be too. But I feel like they should be better with the talent they get. That's all. I forgot about the Final Four run and I think that is the answer to my topic question.
This is a funny to read after tonight's debacle.
Yep. With all that size and talent, when GT is firing on all cylinders, they are a scary team. They've been inconsistent. But we certainly caught them on an upswing. Total demolition job by Monroe & Co.
This post was humorous from day one. Read below from G-Town's athletics page:
Entering his sixth season as the head coach, John Thompson III has added new chapters to the rich history of Georgetown men's basketball.
Since arriving on the Hilltop, the Hoyas have advanced to one Final Four (2007), won a BIG EAST Tournament title (2007), won back-to-back BIG EAST Regular Season titles (2006-07, 2007-08), reached three-straight NCAA Tournaments (2006-08) and been invited to the National Invitation Tournament twice (2005, 2009).
During that time, Georgetown has been ranked among the top-25 teams in the country for 38-straight weeks and is among the winningest programs in the BIG EAST during that time. In addition, in the last three years, more Georgetown players (4) have been selected in the NBA Draft than any other school in the BIG EAST Conference.
Wow just found this thread. Lol What a joke. Not going to even bother to defend JTIII. Anyone who questions him is an idiot.