http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/79269727.html
WTF!?!
Quote from: squirrel on December 14, 2009, 07:56:33 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/79269727.html
WTF!?!
Don't worry, Buzz will fix it....oh, and Vander Blue coming to MU..............
According to Todd Rosiak:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/79269727.html
Jeronne Maymon, Buzz Williams' first recruit as head coach of the Marquette Golden Eagles, has quit the team.
The 6-foot-6 Maymon, a freshman forward, was averaging 4.0 points and 4.2 rebounds in just over 16 minutes of action this season. He had four points and five rebounds off the bench in 22 minutes in MU's 72-63 loss at Wisconsin on Saturday.
Maymon arrived at MU with some acclaim, having been named Wisconsin's state prep player of the year both as a junior and senior at Madison Memorial High School. He and future Golden Eagles signee Vander Blue teamed up to lead the Spartans to the WIAA Division 1 state title last season.
Maymon played in nine of 10 games for the Golden Eagles, missing the North Carolina State game on Dec. 5 due to a hip pointer.
While Maymon had yet to make a big impact for MU, his loss is big just from the standpoint of depth. With center Chris Otule out for the season with a foot injury and guard Junior Cadougan out with an Achilles' injury, the Golden Eagles are now down to just nine healthy scholarship players -- two of whom have only seen sparing action so far this season.
Calls to Maymon were unsuccessful.
I'll update this as necessary later in the evening.
Maymon quits MU
Jeronne Maymon, Buzz Williams' first recruit as head coach of the Marquette Golden Eagles, has quit the team.
The 6-foot-6 Maymon, a freshman forward, was averaging 4.0 points and 4.2 rebounds in just over 16 minutes of action this season. He had four points and five rebounds off the bench in 22 minutes in MU's 72-63 loss at Wisconsin on Saturday.
Maymon arrived at MU with some acclaim, having been named Wisconsin's state prep player of the year both as a junior and senior at Madison Memorial High School. He and future Golden Eagles signee Vander Blue teamed up to lead the Spartans to the WIAA Division 1 state title last season.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/79269727.html
PLEASE!!! Say it isn't so!
Unbelievable!!!!! Will this effect Vander Blue?
Well, the wheels may begin to come off the bus now.
I just got a sick feeling in my stomach!
Very interested to know the reasoning.
This makes me sick to my stomach. Let me also add that I hope this is due mostly to frustration and that he can come back around.
And Blue is still subject to his LOI.
Quote from: GOMUWFB on December 14, 2009, 08:00:54 PM
Unbelievable!!!!! Will this effect Vander Blue?
Duh!!!!!
WOW. wtf?!
Folks...I believe this is why people were shying away from this kid.
I have to say, he never looked "in" to things out there. And for somebody on MU's strength and conditioning program, he wasn't exactly a physical specimen.
i'd wait a couple days to freak out. he is an 18-19 year old kid. sounds like it could be something personal.
let this thing play out before freaking out.
but if it's true it's trouble. big time. and buzz is going to have some explaining to do about all this roster turnover.
Hey give him his space. Mo Acker left and came back and is more determined than ever.
Eric Williams...err...Your table is ready
I think we can all now safely assume that he wasn't injured during the NC St. game.
Could be grades related, didn't the first semester just end
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 14, 2009, 08:15:40 PM
I think we can all now safely assume that he wasn't injured during the NC St. game.
I buy that he was hurt. In the UWM game he fell and was holding his hip and wincing pretty bad. I believe this was during a stretch where he was playing well, but he had to leave the game.
Quote from: GOMUWFB on December 14, 2009, 08:17:11 PM
Could be grades related, didn't the first semester just end
Maybe that's why he is interested in Tennessee.
what is going on?!???!
this is getting ridiculous
MU's official site has this quote from Buzz:
"We want to thank Jeronne for his contributions to the program while he was here and wish him the best of luck in the future," Williams said.
This sounds awfully final. Something doesn't smell right...! Academics...?
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121409aaa.html
This team is snakebitten.
Finals are this week... What happened? This seems like a personal issue? This is the last thing we needed to hear...
Quote from: SoCalwarrior on December 14, 2009, 08:12:49 PM
Eric Williams...err...Your table is ready
LOL, does Buzz know that?
thank goodness vander signed early.
This can't be academics...You go on academic probation for the next semester if you don't do well
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 14, 2009, 08:11:24 PM
All what roster turnover? This is one kid.
Maymon. Mbakwe. Roseboro. Hazel. Christopherson. Acker (who was ultimately asked to return).
Plus the decomits from Taylor and Bowen.
Don't you think that's an unusually high number of departures in just two seasons?
just speculation, but on the surface this seems like a kid who wants to play more of the 3 than the 4 and that is not an option given our current roster/recruiting situation til his junior yr and even then he will still probably have to play more of the 4. i assume he will commit to another team very quickly so he can play ball in conf next season. just guessing tho.
Quote from: MU1984 on December 14, 2009, 08:25:25 PM
just speculation, but on the surface this seems like a kid who wants to play more of the 3 than the 4 and that is not an option given our current roster/recruiting situation til his junior yr and even then he will still probably have to play more of the 4. i assume he will commit to another team very quickly so he can play ball in conf next season. just guessing tho.
Well thats why it seems odd, usually these guys will announce that they are transferring, not just quit.
i wish maymon the best.
am i being naive to think that this will not impact vander blue at all?
well, if you do bad enough you can probably tell before finals that even acing them will not do it for you. maybe he knows hes going to fail or something and is leaving. i would be extremely disappointed if hes feels hes "not being used the right way."
Quote from: MU1984 on December 14, 2009, 08:21:35 PM
thank goodness vander signed early.
He gave a verbal. That is pretty worthless. Just ask Bo.
Quote from: MUeng on December 14, 2009, 08:29:48 PM
well, if you do bad enough you can probably tell before finals that even acing them will not do it for you. maybe he knows hes going to fail or something and is leaving. i would be extremely disappointed if hes feels hes "not being used the right way."
why would he leave because of that though? sitting out a semester vs. (assuming he's transferring) sitting out a year...doesn't make any sense
and 79, Vander signed his LOI...
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 14, 2009, 08:30:20 PM
He gave a verbal. That is pretty worthless. Just ask Bo.
No he signed a letter of intent and cannot play basketball at another school unless MU lets him opt out. I mean if he really wants to I'm sure we'd let him, but its not as wishy washy as a verbal.
Probably no coincidence this happened just after a game in Madison.
Back at home, his boys getting in his ear about how he's not being used right (see: Blanskon, Odartey), etc.
Too bad. If Jeronne thinks he's a three, then he's sadly mistaken.
crap... not good.
He wouldn't sit out a semester... you go on academic probation and are allowed to play. Hence why the one year college players never have to go to class...
Vander does have a LOI, but i think if vander wanted out i believe buzz would let him...
Quote from: mu77vegas on December 14, 2009, 08:19:37 PM
MU's official site has this quote from Buzz:
"We want to thank Jeronne for his contributions to the program while he was here and wish him the best of luck in the future," Williams said.
This quote means nothing. It comes right out of the coach's PR manual on what coaches say when a kid leaves and they don't want to talk about why.
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 14, 2009, 08:23:45 PM
Maymon. Mbakwe. Roseboro. Hazel. Christopherson. Acker (who was ultimately asked to return).
Plus the decomits from Taylor and Bowen.
Don't you think that's an unusually high number of departures in just two seasons?
What's your point?
I hope (and dont think) this will impact Vander. If he leaves bc of Maymon then thats two teams he has said yes then no to. Not an optimal situation for him, but hey anything is possible and he can do whatever he feels is best for him. I guess I am more optimistic than most, but I think our style of play is set up for Vander to have more success than it is for Maymon.
Quote from: MARQKC on December 14, 2009, 08:34:19 PM
This quote means nothing. It comes right out of the coach's PR manual on what coaches say when a kid leaves and they don't want to talk about why.
It will come out soon enough. If it's a bad thing, it will be quashed on other MU sites but it will come out one way or the other. Just a matter of time.
Ahhh, nothing dull. The question now is whether this is the tip of the iceburg or just a one off. Maybe Mr. Hayward can start a thread on the IU board saying MU fans are going nuts.
the point is if you want to have anything resembling roster security in the near and long term future, then you have to cute down on these departures.
At least we know neither Maymon nor Blue would end up at UW because as we have been told by all those Badger, they could never even get accepted into the university.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 14, 2009, 07:57:41 PM
Don't worry, Buzz will fix it....oh, and Vander Blue coming to MU..............
Classy.
I don't see the "string" of departures as symptomatic of Buzz.
It's not uncommon for some recruits and players to leave after a coaching change (look at Memphis this year) and Hazal was legitimately not a BE caliber player.
Rosaboro was said to not be hacking it, so that's just a misevaluation of talent.
Well Maymon is a kid that has always been bigger and better than his competition until now and everything has
come easily. Maybe its just too much work for him, I'm just saying. If thats the case, goodbye Maymon and good
luck.
Otherwise, possibly frustration.
Can't say I always agree with Chico, but I say let the story come out. It is easy to speculate, but would rather wait.
Everybody but Roseboro (a mistake) and Maymon were house cleaning...the same thing somebody else is getting credit for at IU.
What the F***
Just talked to his dad with a Maymon personalized jersey on and everything and he was all ready for next year's UW matchup
WTF
This seems like a personal issue and not an athletic issue... I hope the kid the best and I hope he figures things out.
We need this kid and he will be a good player...
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 14, 2009, 08:48:28 PM
Everybody but Roseboro (a mistake) and Maymon were house cleaning...the same thing somebody else is getting credit for at IU.
yeah, definitely an apples to apples comparison. Give me a freaking break. One coach is facing NCAA infractions, drugs, practice no-shows.
You know what, never mind. You are ridiculous.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 14, 2009, 08:48:28 PM
Everybody but Roseboro (a mistake) and Maymon were house cleaning...the same thing somebody else is getting credit for at IU.
Thank god somebody brought up TC. I thought this thread was only going to be about Maymon and the future of MU hoops.
Phew.
Bad week for MU bball. I hope that he reconsiders and comes back. The wins over Xavier and Michigan seem years ago now...
Quote from: MUSF on December 14, 2009, 08:53:31 PM
yeah, definitely an apples to apples comparison. Give me a freaking break. One coach is facing NCAA infractions, drugs, practice no-shows.
You know what, never mind. You are ridiculous.
Don't forget the kid Crean begged to stay who threw a plant at him. The mental picture of the tanned one cowering as his secretary dialed 911 is too funny.
He will transfer to Tennessee and play more of the 2 and 3(which Buzz promised him in the first place). You heard it here first!
End of the semester, really makes grades the most logical answer.
I guess the Badgers were right about his academics all along.
the 2? the dude really thinks hes gonna play the 2 at TENN?
Maymon has delusions of grandeur if he thinks he can play the 2 and 3 @UT.
The badger fan that broke this story said he was unhappy with having to play down low. If that's the reason he left, so early in his career, then I think it's best he stays away from the program. Not that I wasn't in favor of him coming to MU, but this form of decision making seems unstable to me.
As absolutely crappy as this is going to read, I don't know if we get Vander without Maymon on the team, and it sounds like Vander is still set on MU, so it's hard to judge Maymon's impact on MU...
First semester is a hard time for a lot of freshman. I really hope this is something minor that got blown out of proportion.... Damn and just when i was becoming more of a glass half full fan.
http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1102225
BLUE IS STAYING BLUE IS STAYING
if he were to xfer doing it ASAP he might qualify to play 2nd semester at his new school.
Quote from: Rocco on December 14, 2009, 09:05:14 PM
He will transfer to Tennessee and play more of the 2 and 3(which Buzz promised him in the first place). You heard it here first!
Also a program where integrity and conducting yourself in a professional manner are not a prirority, see Kiffin, Lane and Pearl, Bruce.
I hope this is not true. I really hope this kid is smart enough not to pull an ODB and bolt for selfish reasons only to miss out on a golden opportunity down the road.
If you're reading this JM, think it through.
Supposedly "someone" got in his ear about not being used right, and his grades were not up to par either.
It really makes no sense. he has had plenty of playing time. he hasn't looked good during that playing time. he has seemed happy at least in interviews and such since he has arrived. He will most likely lose a year of eligibility if he wanted to transfer. he was a definite starter next year almost by default. I doubt Buzz would have played him against madison had he had an inkling of this coming before saturday. U really wonder what happened from Saturday night forward.
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 14, 2009, 08:30:20 PM
He gave a verbal. That is pretty worthless. Just ask Bo.
How can anyone who follows MU basketball enough to post here 735 times not know Blue signed a LOI? Stunning, but it explains a lot.
I agree if MAymon sees himself as a 3 and expects to play the 3 at a loaded team like UT he is kidding himself. Great pickup for Ut though becuase next year when he is playing the 4 it's not like he is going to up and transfer again. Good luck beating our tobias harris for PT
hate to see him leave, about 15% of all reshman transfer and about 95% of them consider it. I think he would have been a really good player for Mu but its his
choice unfortunate for everyone involved
Let's lay off all this speculation that the kid couldn't hack it in the classroom or this is a grade related issue. Remember this is the stuff that we gave UW fans grief for when they questioned Vander's academic abilities.
We're all disappointed he's leaving but the best thing for the program and all of us is to wish him luck wherever he lands.
Quote from: LastWarrior on December 14, 2009, 09:13:54 PM
Let's lay off all this speculation that the kid couldn't hack it in the classroom or this is a grade related issue. Remember this is the stuff that we gave UW fans grief for when they questioned Vander's academic abilities.
We're all disappointed he's leaving but the best thing for the program and all of us is to wish him luck wherever he lands.
+1, A damn shame after a tough loss to our in-state rival.
I disagree, why do we have to wish him luck? He screws the program after making a committment and Im supposed to wish him luck? I hope ends up like ODB and regrets leaving for the rest of his life.
Quote from: Rocco on December 14, 2009, 09:05:14 PM
He will transfer to Tennessee and play more of the 2 and 3(which Buzz promised him in the first place). You heard it here first!
The 2? I can't wait to see that.
If Liam and Otule were playing we would not be having this thread.
Quote from: Rocco on December 14, 2009, 09:18:47 PM
I disagree, why do we have to wish him luck? He screws the program after making a committment and Im supposed to wish him luck? I hope ends up like ODB and regrets leaving for the rest of his life.
A lot of freshman transfer every year.
Some are athletes, some are not.
Doesn't mean they should "regret it for the rest of their lives".
These things happen, that'll be $8.
More than just guarding the 5 position, I think Maymon wanted more opportunities on the offensive end than he has received. Up until now it has been setting a lot of picks, getting dishes down low off of drives and whatever else he could get off the boards from offensive rebounding. Rumor has it Maymon's dad and Buzz got into a heated argument not too long ago about Maymon's role but that is all hearsay at the moment.
Quote from: Rocco on December 14, 2009, 09:18:47 PM
I disagree, why do we have to wish him luck? He screws the program after making a committment and Im supposed to wish him luck? I hope ends up like ODB and regrets leaving for the rest of his life.
because he's 18 or 19 years old....
Quote from: Rocco on December 14, 2009, 09:18:47 PM
I disagree, why do we have to wish him luck? He screws the program after making a committment and Im supposed to wish him luck? I hope ends up like ODB and regrets leaving for the rest of his life.
I don't necessarily think you're too off track here but the people are saying let's wait until the Tennessee story becomes official, even if you know it to be true, and then your line of thinking is confirmed.
Also, Maymon was promised the 2 spot by Buzz? I assumed it was the 3 but if he was promised the 2 I now have to wonder what the unnatural carnal knowledge Buzz was trying to pull on that.
Roseboro, Acker, and Maymon. Three very interesting player developments spotlighting Buzz.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 14, 2009, 09:58:10 PM
More than just guarding the 5 position, I think Maymon wanted more opportunities on the offensive end than he has received. Up until now it has been setting a lot of picks, getting dishes down low off of drives and whatever else he could get off the boards from offensive rebounding. Rumor has it Maymon's dad and Buzz got into a heated argument not too long ago about Maymon's role but that is all hearsay at the moment.
yes, so lets propagate the rumor.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 14, 2009, 10:01:01 PM
yes, so lets propagate the rumor.
Everyone in the Madison area code said that Mr. Maymon had an impulsive personality that would most likely create some headaches for a young coach like Buzz so it's not exactly a crazy thing to have out there.
I heard he is transfering to Miami-Dade to take over Trevor's spot.
If Maymon's old man even has access to talk to the coach (other than greetings outside the locker room) that's a real problem. I wouldn't be surprised if Buzz is pretty relieved to be done with the nonsense.
I hear Maymon left because he became addicted to DJ Hero.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 14, 2009, 07:57:41 PM
Don't worry, Buzz will fix it....oh, and Vander Blue coming to MU..............
Much as it will disappoint you looks like Vander is still committed to MU.
Lose-Lose situation for everyone:
Even if it isn't Buzz's fault, it is never good for a top recruit to leave. Recruits will start questioning why these guys left.
The team is dramatically worse whether you're a fan of J-May or not, we weren't a deep team to begin with.
J-May's going to get a bad image for this and I don't see him ever working out as a 2/3. He's a PF, he needs to accept that.
Tim Maymon needs to grow up. Whether those Buzz convos are true or not, he is destroying his son's reputation.
The bright side:
Vander Blue is still here.
We have a chance to replace Maymon's spot with a player tough enough to guard 4/5s
QuoteIf Maymon's old man even has access to talk to the coach (other than greetings outside the locker room) that's a real problem.
If that really happened then good riddance, but it is hearsay. This isn't AYSO. I don't know what Buzz promised him, but promises don't mean
anything if you can't perform and play hard, which he has, but you earn throughout time (see Jimmy Butler)
Quote from: Warrior of Law on December 14, 2009, 10:05:31 PM
If Maymon's old man even has access to talk to the coach (other than greetings outside the locker room) that's a real problem. I wouldn't be surprised if Buzz is pretty relieved to be done with the nonsense.
Come on, parents often have a relationship with the coach including the opportunity to pick up a phone and contact them anytime, or meet with them personally. That is hardly a "real problem." It is more like a coach establishing a relationship with a concerned parent who is sending their child away to college.
As for the speculation regarding Tim, we can't be surprised. In fact, I believe I warned someone here to proceed with caution when they wanted to celebrate a lack of drama with the Maymons a month or two ago. We were warned, Buzz took a necessary risk that didn't work out, and we move on.
In the words of coach Dale, "This is your team!"
QuoteRoseboro, Acker, and Maymon. Three very interesting player developments spotlighting Buzz.
Cmon, we don't honestly think this constitutes a track record, do we? Acker was a transfer that was directly tied to a recently graduated Jerel. At the time Mo wasn't going to get enough PT to make it fair for him to remain on the team. With the young, guard heavy class coming in, I wouldn't be surprised to find this both Mo's and Buzz's decision at the time.
Roseboro was an inherited recruit (remember he signed in October of Buzz's first year) who by his own admission never was in close contact with Buzz. That seemed to me like the locking down of a recruit right away, simply to not botch an entire recruiting cycle.
The Maymon thing now is interesting. I have no idea what lead to his decision, but hope that he finds whatever it is he is looking for. This isn't a matter of a kid screwing us over or anything else that people just looking to get mad will assert. He is a 18-19 year old kid just starting college. As such, this is much more life changing for him than it is for anyone affiliated with the university. Being a freshman in athletics is hard enough, and if he isn't going to be happy, the relationship will not be good for him nor anyone else. You just can't look at this like a player signing a professional contract. That school represents you the rest of your life, its not just the logo that signs a paycheck. So lets all think before we type, lest we be mistaken for UW-Marquette.
Quote from: Rocco on December 14, 2009, 09:05:14 PM
He will transfer to Tennessee and play more of the 2 and 3(which Buzz promised him in the first place). You heard it here first!
I'm sure he could eventually work into a 3 with EWill and Mbao/Otule at 4 and 5, but a 2?? That has to be a joke. Let's hope he pulls an Acker and gets his stuff straightened out. Going back to the Mbwake transfer, it sure has been a drama-filled year with injuries and transfers. When will it end?
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 14, 2009, 10:14:58 PM
Roseboro was an inherited recruit (remember he signed in October of Buzz's first year) who by his own admission never was in close contact with Buzz. That seemed to me like the locking down of a recruit right away, simply to not botch an entire recruiting cycle.
Actually - Roseboro was signed by Buzz - just after he "blew up" in a Tourney in NY (I think it was in NY). Unfortunately, the rest of his Senior year he didn't preform as well.
Nonetheless, different situation.
Ah, there's a bigger story here. I get the impression that it's Buzz' way or the highway. Not saying that it shouldn't be that way, but this is a terrible blow for the program. At present, this year's team simply can't afford any more player losses. And, contrary to some opinions, Maymon was a big time talent. However, the ramifications of this transfer, and I don't expect for a second, that this is academically related in any manner, are staggering. Don't expect Vander to ever wear the MU uniform and relationships with WI high school coaches will be at a disconnect. Obvious to me that Jeronne leaving is a result of displeasure with his role. What changed in a month since being the lead contact to Blue. This is a horrific setback for Buzz at this point in his MU career and he may not recover from it.
QuoteActually - Roseboro was signed by Buzz - just after he "blew up" in a Tourney in NY (I think it was in NY). Unfortunately, the rest of his Senior year he didn't preform as well
Thats right, I knew he signed during Buzz's tenure, but I wasn't sure if the Roseboro-MU relationship was something Buzz walked into or not. Either way, that was clearly a hurried signing after a turnover filled and thus shorter-than-most recruiting cycle.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 14, 2009, 10:21:16 PM
Ah, there's a bigger story here. I get the impression that it's Buzz' way or the highway. Not saying that it shouldn't be that way, but this is a terrible blow for the program. At present, this year's team simply can't afford any more player losses. And, contrary to some opinions, Maymon was a big time talent. However, the ramifications of this transfer, and I don't expect for a second, that this is academically related in any manner, are staggering. Don't expect Vander to ever wear the MU uniform and relationships with WI high school coaches will be at a disconnect. Obvious to me that Jeronne leaving is a result of displeasure with his role. What changed in a month since being the lead contact to Blue. This is a horrific setback for Buzz at this point in his MU career and he may not recover from it.
and with that, i am going to bed.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on December 14, 2009, 10:05:31 PM
If Maymon's old man even has access to talk to the coach (other than greetings outside the locker room) that's a real problem. I wouldn't be surprised if Buzz is pretty relieved to be done with the nonsense.
Given that Buzz gave out his cell phone number to a bunch of non-athlete's parents a couple months back, I suspect the parents of his players would have reasonable access to him.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
This is from a friend...
Allegedly: "Tim Maymon recently (The week before the Wisconsin game) had a heated conversation with Buzz about J-May's role on the team. Reportedly the Maymon camp was extremly upset with his offensive role. Buzz basically guranteed the Maymons during the recruitment that J-May would be a featured option in the offense and that he would be a ... See Morestarter from day one, NOT coming off the bench. Buzz also ensured that J-May would be playing the 3/4 and that his role on the team would be more offensive oriented and would not be stuck only guarding the bigs.
The conversation got heated to the point where expletives were thrown into the conversation and the Maymons threatened that if J-May's role did not change soon they would not hesitate pulling him from school to look at other options where he would be a "featured option". Tim Maymon also threatened that they would take Vander with them.
They mentioned some school out in Virginia and somewhere in the south but I am not exactly sure which those are at this point."
Hopefully this isn't true... It's nuts if they expected to be a primary offensive options 10 games into his freshman season.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 14, 2009, 10:00:17 PM
I don't necessarily think you're too off track here but the people are saying let's wait until the Tennessee story becomes official, even if you know it to be true, and then your line of thinking is confirmed.
Also, Maymon was promised the 2 spot by Buzz? I assumed it was the 3 but if he was promised the 2 I now have to wonder what the frack Buzz was trying to pull on that.
Roseboro, Acker, and Maymon. Three very interesting player developments spotlighting Buzz.
Maymon promised the 2 spot? Yea right. NOBODY could POSSIBLY really believe that.
Quote from: TomW1365 on December 14, 2009, 10:28:14 PM
This is from a friend...
Allegedly: "Tim Maymon recently (The week before the Wisconsin game) had a heated conversation with Buzz about J-May's role on the team. Reportedly the Maymon camp was extremly upset with his offensive role. Buzz basically guranteed the Maymons during the recruitment that J-May would be a featured option in the offense and that he would be a ... See Morestarter from day one, NOT coming off the bench. Buzz also ensured that J-May would be playing the 3/4 and that his role on the team would be more offensive oriented and would not be stuck only guarding the bigs.
The conversation got heated to the point where expletives were thrown into the conversation and the Maymons threatened that if J-May's role did not change soon they would not hesitate pulling him from school to look at other options where he would be a "featured option". Tim Maymon also threatened that they would take Vander with them.
They mentioned some school out in Virginia and somewhere in the south but I am not exactly sure which those are at this point."
Hopefully this isn't true... It's nuts if they expected to be a primary offensive options 10 games into his freshman season.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=5301070&p=3
Are you CS5866?
Quote from: TomW1365 on December 14, 2009, 10:28:14 PM
This is from a friend...
Allegedly: "Tim Maymon recently (The week before the Wisconsin game) had a heated conversation with Buzz about J-May's role on the team. Reportedly the Maymon camp was extremly upset with his offensive role. Buzz basically guranteed the Maymons during the recruitment that J-May would be a featured option in the offense and that he would be a ... See Morestarter from day one, NOT coming off the bench. Buzz also ensured that J-May would be playing the 3/4 and that his role on the team would be more offensive oriented and would not be stuck only guarding the bigs.
The conversation got heated to the point where expletives were thrown into the conversation and the Maymons threatened that if J-May's role did not change soon they would not hesitate pulling him from school to look at other options where he would be a "featured option". Tim Maymon also threatened that they would take Vander with them.
They mentioned some school out in Virginia and somewhere in the south but I am not exactly sure which those are at this point."
Hopefully this isn't true... It's nuts if they expected to be a primary offensive options 10 games into his freshman season.
It may be nuts to us but it wasn't to the young man and his father. Again, plenty of people in Madison explained this was a possible outcome as expectations may have been higher from within.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 14, 2009, 10:21:16 PM
Ah, there's a bigger story here. I get the impression that it's Buzz' way or the highway. Not saying that it shouldn't be that way, but this is a terrible blow for the program. At present, this year's team simply can't afford any more player losses. And, contrary to some opinions, Maymon was a big time talent. However, the ramifications of this transfer, and I don't expect for a second, that this is academically related in any manner, are staggering. Don't expect Vander to ever wear the MU uniform and relationships with WI high school coaches will be at a disconnect. Obvious to me that Jeronne leaving is a result of displeasure with his role. What changed in a month since being the lead contact to Blue. This is a horrific setback for Buzz at this point in his MU career and he may not recover from it.
Wasn't this the issue with Crean at the end -- namely, all the coaches in Wisconsin couldn't stand him.
Are you telling me that only 18 months into a tenure in which he would be here as long as Marquette would have him, Buzz has already pissed off a majority of the coaches in Wisconsin largely due to taking on a risk and failing?
When this news broke, I heard a similar story. If its true, then Mr. Maymon is not doing his son any favors and Buzz isn't doing his program any favors by taking such a risk in bringing Maymon here. The instability of the program is a genuine concern.
This explains why MUScoop had some problems...Google search for Jeronne Maymon is "volcanic" right now.
#12 search in the country over the past couple hours...
http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?sa=X&oi=prbx_hot_trends&ct=title&q=jeronne+maymon
I will say this, if there was some anger about him not being a major offensive option, they need to look at the tape and realize that our players create their own shots, I.e. butler and lazar
Quote from: LastWarrior on December 14, 2009, 09:13:54 PM
Let's lay off all this speculation that the kid couldn't hack it in the classroom or this is a grade related issue. Remember this is the stuff that we gave UW fans grief for when they questioned Vander's academic abilities.
We're all disappointed he's leaving but the best thing for the program and all of us is to wish him luck wherever he lands.
+1
The claims about his academics...not very classy people...way to throw him under the bus.
I wish him luck elsewhere, but also wish he would have given it time...next year we will have Otule, Mbao and maybe someone else for the 5. He would have had a chance at the 3 or 4 during his time here...
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 14, 2009, 10:21:16 PM
Ah, there's a bigger story here. I get the impression that it's Buzz' way or the highway. Not saying that it shouldn't be that way, but this is a terrible blow for the program. At present, this year's team simply can't afford any more player losses. And, contrary to some opinions, Maymon was a big time talent. However, the ramifications of this transfer, and I don't expect for a second, that this is academically related in any manner, are staggering. Don't expect Vander to ever wear the MU uniform and relationships with WI high school coaches will be at a disconnect. Obvious to me that Jeronne leaving is a result of displeasure with his role. What changed in a month since being the lead contact to Blue. This is a horrific setback for Buzz at this point in his MU career and he may not recover from it.
Whoa whoa whoa... let's step back a bit.
These coaches already know the "Tim" factor. Based on what has been said about him in the past, this isn't altogether surprising.
Relationships with HS coaches are already at a disconnect, simply because it's MU. Don't discount the anti-Milwaukee, anti-Private school bias that exists throughout the state. Not a ton that Buzz, or anyone, can do about that. There's simply not enough top talent in state every year to worry about that.
Vander's mother already told Mark Miller (someone they trust a lot) that he would be coming to MU. I've also heard Vander has told people the same.
Yes, it hurts this season. Might hurt beyond this season. Might end up being a positive depending on any flights in from Eugene...
I will be shocked if Vander Blue goes anywhere but MU.
The UW debacle was bad enough but pulling the same stunt with your second team in 12 months would be a lot of negative attention he doesn't need. His poor family would have no safe haven in Wisconsin and the pressure on him to perform at whatever school he ends up with would be immense. As for following Maymon, I don't buy it. These kids might be best friends but a top bball recruit is a buisness man by the age of 16. He is not going to let some emotional attachment to a kid decide his future. Ain't gonna happen.
As for the Maymon speculation, it smells a lot like D. Mason. I really hope they get it sorted out and the kid doesn't end up ruined on the massive bball scrap heap.
Considering the number of prospective recruits we've had that ended up committing to UT, I hope that's not what he has in mind. Pearl will have no problem recruiting over him if he hasn't already done it. You've got to wonder what he's thinking and also how bad it must be...his development has been slower than most of us thought, but the already thin roster would guarantee him 20+ minutes a night and he'd be getting as much time as he could earn at the 4 over the next three years with Otule or Mbao alongside him and enough talent in the backcourt that he would get plenty of touches down low. So much to speculate that it's just pointless...though if his role was the major driver in the decision it's strange how much Buzz has been raving about his unselfishness...if he was unhappy with his role I hope he, and not his father, discussed this with Buzz instead of playing the quiet and unselfish card until he had enough of the situation he was in.
As far as EWill, he's got to play now. Unless Buzz wants to play Fulce for 30 minutes he has no choice. But let's see the classic Buzz bounce-back to land some stud recruit...plenty of playing time for anyone 6'6" or more.
Quote from: Rocco on December 14, 2009, 09:05:14 PM
He will transfer to Tennessee and play more of the 2 and 3(which Buzz promised him in the first place). You heard it here first!
Wouldn't surprise me, especially with Pearl's history of tampering with players from other schools. One doesn't need to go back far to see that.
I also understand that there was a post here that said I was giddy about this news from Mr. Hayward. I can't find the post, maybe it was deleted. Quite the contrary, I'm very disappointed by the news. Am I shocked? Absolutely not.
Mviale...nero? First it was Napoleon now it's Nero. Well at least I'm getting taller in your eyes. ;D
No joy in this, but I did chuckle when I read the news. Not a chuckle as in a laugh of joy, but a chuckle in "doesn't surprise me one @#$#@$ bit". There were more than a few of us that asked why Bo Ryan AND Tom Crean ignored this kid. And for that, we were called haters. Sometimes, you have to take the blue and gold glasses off and look at reality of why. There were red flags all over the place, and any time someone brought them up, they were shot down as haters of the program or TC lovers.
It was merely asking simple questions, looks like today we got a few answers. Shame. Hope it doesn't hurt the program long term or Buzz because we will have him as our coach for quite awhile. Best of luck to Tim and J. Maymon....more luck to Buzz that he can start landing some guys without so many red flags...just a thought (yeah, that makes me a hater I guess)
Quote from: chapman on December 14, 2009, 10:56:26 PM
Considering the number of prospective recruits we've had that ended up committing to UT, I hope that's not what he has in mind. Pearl will have no problem recruiting over him if he hasn't already done it. You've got to wonder what he's thinking and also how bad it must be...his development has been slower than most of us thought, but the already thin roster would guarantee him 20+ minutes a night and he'd be getting as much time as he could earn at the 4 over the next three years with Otule or Mbao alongside him and enough talent in the backcourt that he would get plenty of touches down low. So much to speculate that it's just pointless...though if his role was the major driver in the decision it's strange how much Buzz has been raving about his unselfishness...if he was unhappy with his role I hope he, and not his father, discussed this with Buzz instead of playing the quiet and unselfish card until he had enough of the situation he was in.
As far as EWill, he's got to play now. Unless Buzz wants to play Fulce for 30 minutes he has no choice. But let's see the classic Buzz bounce-back to land some stud recruit...plenty of playing time for anyone 6'6" or more.
Maybe there was another reason why Buzz was raving about Maymon the last week or so.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 14, 2009, 10:31:23 PM
It may be nuts to us but it wasn't to the young man and his father. Again, plenty of people in Madison explained this was a possible outcome as expectations may have been higher from within.
Plenty of people on this very board said the same thing and got crap canned for doing so.
What are the chances that Todd Rosiak actually investigates this and publishes what actually happened?
Any other big sports city in America would be all over this but for some reason I think the actual story will only come out from those "in the know" like so many other things in the past.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 14, 2009, 08:42:42 PM
Classy.
Please explain to me what was not classy about it? Buzz will fix this and I simply used a literary style of ........ to indicate we don't know what will happen with Vander Blue. That's all. Nothing un-classy about it.
This is extremely crushing in many aspects. Here I was a few days ago saying to friends how wrong badger fans were about Mr Maymon and his antics. What a clown that guy is, jumping up and down all game behind buzz.
Buzz needs to do a better job of making his players happy. He brought the kid here, knowing the issues with his dad and all that nonsense. From that point forward anything that happens that causes the kid to leave is partially the head coaches fault. Communication is the most important aspect here
I see the kids perspective- he feels his only NBA hopes, which likely match up with his main hopes for life and a good future, are at the 2,3 positions. He does not wanna bang down low because he's probably seen guys with immense talent coming out of hs play outta position for 4 years and be hurt by this. Alando Tucker at UW is a great example- the kid had an amazing college career, but was completely outta position and therefore was likely hurt in the development of his skill set. That said, Id tell Mr Maymon to take a solid look at Mr Matthews, who banged down low for 4 yrs, became a solid all around player, and was finally given the opportunity to showcase his offensive skills and is thriving in the association
Talent like that cannot be leaving MU if the program is to be successful
Haha...this is starting to become a big joke...what's the next bad news????
Do a CCAP search of Tim Maymon. He has a rap sheet mile and a half long with a coke possison with intent to deliver, obstruction, failure to show up to county, though he did serve 5+ years...
His upcoming press conference should be epic.
Quote from: mudimitri on December 14, 2009, 11:09:25 PM
I see the kids perspective- he feels his only NBA hopes, which likely match up with his main hopes for life and a good future, are at the 2,3 positions. He does not wanna bang down low because he's probably seen guys with immense talent coming out of hs play outta position for 4 years and be hurt by this. Alando Tucker at UW is a great example- the kid had an amazing college career, but was completely outta position and therefore was likely hurt in the development of his skill set. That said, Id tell Mr Maymon to take a solid look at Mr Matthews, who banged down low for 4 yrs, became a solid all around player, and was finally given the opportunity to showcase his offensive skills and is thriving in the association
Talent like that cannot be leaving MU if the program is to be successful
I agree with a lot of what you say, and I think that's the problem. Maymon could be a great Blair type player and a great college player. But I just don't think he will ever have a NBA skill set. Unless, he completely transforms as a player, he will never be quick enough to guard 2/3 in the NBA and will not have the scoring ability from the distance needed to play in the NBA at the 3. He should focus on getting the most out of his collegiate career, graduate, and look at getting enough of his name out there and play in Europe.
http://www.facebook.com/v/746167377517
seeing if this works, it's a video of Tim Maymon
rocky sez: fixed flash embedding
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 14, 2009, 10:56:50 PM
Wouldn't surprise me, especially with Pearl's history of tampering with players from other schools. One doesn't need to go back far to see that.
I also understand that there was a post here that said I was giddy about this news from Mr. Hayward. I can't find the post, maybe it was deleted. Quite the contrary, I'm very disappointed by the news. Am I shocked? Absolutely not.
Mviale...nero? First it was Napoleon now it's Nero. Well at least I'm getting taller in your eyes. ;D
No joy in this, but I did chuckle when I read the news. Not a chuckle as in a laugh of joy, but a chuckle in "doesn't surprise me one @#$#@$ bit". There were more than a few of us that asked why Bo Ryan AND Tom Crean ignored this kid. And for that, we were called haters. Sometimes, you have to take the blue and gold glasses off and look at reality of why. There were red flags all over the place, and any time someone brought them up, they were shot down as haters of the program or TC lovers.
It was merely asking simple questions, looks like today we got a few answers. Shame. Hope it doesn't hurt the program long term or Buzz because we will have him as our coach for quite awhile. Best of luck to Tim and J. Maymon....more luck to Buzz that he can start landing some guys without so many red flags...just a thought (yeah, that makes me a hater I guess)
+1. I can only speak for myself, but there were many, many red flags here that I ignored or surpressed. It sounds lame to say right now and given the PT, but I'd have been much, much more surprised if it was EWill leaving.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 14, 2009, 11:15:43 PM
I agree with a lot of what you say, and I think that's the problem. Maymon could be a great Blair type player and a great college player. But I just don't think he will ever have a NBA skill set. Unless, he completely transforms as a player, he will never be quick enough to guard 2/3 in the NBA and will not have the scoring ability from the distance needed to play in the NBA at the 3. He should focus on getting the most out of his collegiate career, graduate, and look at getting enough of his name out there and play in Europe.
Not necessarily true. These are the skills he is looking to develop in college. I think he will be quick enough to guard a 3, and dont forget how many players have developed a mid-range game and solid jump shot, even late in their careers (Wade is a good example, even though he always said himself that he thought his hands were to big to be able to shoot the 3)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 14, 2009, 10:56:50 PM
Wouldn't surprise me, especially with Pearl's history of tampering with players from other schools. One doesn't need to go back far to see that.
I also understand that there was a post here that said I was giddy about this news from Mr. Hayward. I can't find the post, maybe it was deleted. Quite the contrary, I'm very disappointed by the news. Am I shocked? Absolutely not.
Mviale...nero? First it was Napoleon now it's Nero. Well at least I'm getting taller in your eyes. ;D
No joy in this, but I did chuckle when I read the news. Not a chuckle as in a laugh of joy, but a chuckle in "doesn't surprise me one @#$#@$ bit". There were more than a few of us that asked why Bo Ryan AND Tom Crean ignored this kid. And for that, we were called haters. Sometimes, you have to take the blue and gold glasses off and look at reality of why. There were red flags all over the place, and any time someone brought them up, they were shot down as haters of the program or TC lovers.
It was merely asking simple questions, looks like today we got a few answers. Shame. Hope it doesn't hurt the program long term or Buzz because we will have him as our coach for quite awhile. Best of luck to Tim and J. Maymon....more luck to Buzz that he can start landing some guys without so many red flags...just a thought (yeah, that makes me a hater I guess)
I remember when James "Manchild" Mathews came to MU. If ever there was a guy with red flags he was one (and that is being extremely kind). Funny that I don't remember your admonitions beforehand or your "doesn't surprise me one@#$#@$ bit" chuckles afterwards. Matter of fact, don't remember you ripping Crean at all. Funny.
Quote from: mudimitri on December 14, 2009, 11:25:36 PM
Not necessarily true. These are the skills he is looking to develop in college. I think he will be quick enough to guard a 3, and dont forget how many players have developed a mid-range game and solid jump shot, even late in their careers (Wade is a good example, even though he always said himself that he thought his hands were to big to be able to shoot the 3)
I agree it is possible through extreme dedication and some luck. But from my prospective, it's a long shot. Wade is one of the greatest exceptions, but from what little I've seen of J-May he doesn't have those skills. An incredibly small number make the NBA and I feel many on this team and recruits have a better shot than Maymon, IMO. He is a power player that would have to completely change his game, that is a little different than a player like Wade just developing his shot.
Though, I can't blame a kid for going after his dreams.
I can't help but laugh at this Chicos fellow. Truly a sad individual.
Quote from: RichardShaw on December 14, 2009, 11:41:55 PM
I can't help but laugh at this Chicos fellow. Truly a sad individual.
+1
+2 (he/she should stick to what he/she knows best: Badger baiting, self promoting and name dropping).
Upon realizing the success of Bucks player Brandon Jennings, and the advice of his father, JM has decided to forgo the rest of his college career and will begin playing for a European League before entering his name in the 2010 draft.
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
Best of luck J-May and thanks for what you gave MU in the short time here!
Gonna throw up...
I'm looking forward to the next couple of days to hear the real meat behind this story. Best of luck to Jay May wherever he goes. Thanks for the time spent here.
Quote from: mudimitri on December 14, 2009, 11:09:25 PM
Buzz needs to do a better job of making his players happy. He brought the kid here, knowing the issues with his dad and all that nonsense. From that point forward anything that happens that causes the kid to leave is partially the head coaches fault. Communication is the most important aspect here
Talent like that cannot be leaving MU if the program is to be successful
Wrong on both points, IMO. When you are dealing with kids/parents like this, there is only one way to deal with them. My way or the highway. Buzz is the leader of this team and the future of the program. You can't pander to kids and families that make demands and give ultimatums. Once you open that Pandora's box, you can never close it back up. There are certain kids that may have all the talent in the world but can become a devastating cancer on the team. It would be wrong to assume that that is the case now with JM but I won't fault Buzz for taking a hardline in order to protect his control of the team and the well being of the program. That is what the last coach did on multiple occasions and what most good coaches do across the country. When you show me an exception, I will show you a coach that has a history of questionable ethics and probably bounced around quite a bit.
On the second point, if success at MU means compromising what is right or fair/just, then I would rather not be successful.
This sucks, is terrible for this year, and is completely out of the blue.
With that said, time to pick ourselves up. We've had a terrible run of luck but sulking and being mad at Maymon and co. will do nothing but bring back bad feelings. The season will go on with or without him. We have to keep building this year so that we can hit the ground running in the next few years.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2009, 11:33:47 PM
I remember when James "Manchild" Mathews came to MU. If ever there was a guy with red flags he was one (and that is being extremely kind). Funny that I don't remember your admonitions beforehand or your "doesn't surprise me one@#$#@$ bit" chuckles afterwards. Matter of fact, don't remember you ripping Crean at all. Funny.
No, what's funny is watching the squirms of people who invested years developing a hatred of Tom Crean specifically because he brought in the wrong type of players, had too many transfers and couldn't land a quality big.
The record shows that Buzz also recruits players with red flags, has had a significant numbers of transfers, and has built a lineup that is not simply short, but rated 339th for average height.
The only thing left is to see whether these people use the same excuses to begin an intense hatred of Buzz, or whether they enter into full hypocrite mode and continue to blame Crean while making excuses for Buzz.
I didn't rip on Crean back then, and I'm not going to rip on Buzz now. These things happen in college basketball. But I will call out those hypocrites who treat the two coaches differently. Perhaps someday they'll accept that transfers are a part of the game, all coaches take risks in recruiting, and landing a quality big is a lot harder than they make it out to be.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 14, 2009, 10:56:50 PM
Wouldn't surprise me, especially with Pearl's history of tampering with players from other schools. One doesn't need to go back far to see that.
I also understand that there was a post here that said I was giddy about this news from Mr. Hayward. I can't find the post, maybe it was deleted. Quite the contrary, I'm very disappointed by the news. Am I shocked? Absolutely not.
Mviale...nero? First it was Napoleon now it's Nero. Well at least I'm getting taller in your eyes. ;D
No joy in this, but I did chuckle when I read the news. Not a chuckle as in a laugh of joy, but a chuckle in "doesn't surprise me one @#$#@$ bit". There were more than a few of us that asked why Bo Ryan AND Tom Crean ignored this kid. And for that, we were called haters. Sometimes, you have to take the blue and gold glasses off and look at reality of why. There were red flags all over the place, and any time someone brought them up, they were shot down as haters of the program or TC lovers.
It was merely asking simple questions, looks like today we got a few answers. Shame. Hope it doesn't hurt the program long term or Buzz because we will have him as our coach for quite awhile. Best of luck to Tim and J. Maymon....more luck to Buzz that he can start landing some guys without so many red flags...just a thought (yeah, that makes me a hater I guess)
Don't you think this was a calculated risk on Buzz's part. I don't think Buzz ignored red flags. I think he took a risk and it didn't work out. If he could make it work, we would be calling him a genius in two years and poking Bo, the Badgers, and our former coach in the eye. The flipside to taking risks like this is knowing when to cut your losses. I think Buzz did just that. Our previous coach did this quite a bit and took a lot of flack from people on this board for it. I wonder if those people remain consistent and criticize Buzz in the same way they did TC. I hope you remain consistent and don't start lighting the torches and grabbing your pitchfork just yet.
Does anybody have a copy of the presser the Maymons (plural) did announcing the son was attending MU? You know, where the father has some sort of technicolor sweater and is skittering around holding up some hand made signs? I would love to see that again but from a very different perspective.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 14, 2009, 11:40:32 PM
I agree it is possible through extreme dedication and some luck. But from my prospective, it's a long shot. Wade is one of the greatest exceptions, but from what little I've seen of J-May he doesn't have those skills. An incredibly small number make the NBA and I feel many on this team and recruits have a better shot than Maymon, IMO. He is a power player that would have to completely change his game, that is a little different than a player like Wade just developing his shot.
Though, I can't blame a kid for going after his dreams.
Yep I agree with ya
Hindsight...
5/22/08
Maymon will decide next Tuesday. His dad seems hilarious in the article, stating that schools will be considered if they offer over the weekend.
Seems like a very short-sited decision. Tennessee maybe? I'm really not sure. His dad sure doesn't seem to be.
Mark Miller's Blurb:
Quote:
Maymon's visit to Marquette goes well
According to Tim Maymon, the father of Madison Memorial junior Jeronne Maymon, the unofficial visit the family took to Marquette on Tuesday went well.
"It was great meeting with Buzz Williams and the other coaches," Tim Maymon said. "Things went well."
Marquette, Iowa State, Baylor, USC, Tennessee, Kansas and Minnesota are the leaders for the 6-6 Maymon, who plans to take part in the prestigious Bob Gibbons Tournament of Champions event this weekend in North Carolina as a member of the Illinois Bobcats travel team.
I think it's a good decision on his part actually, Heavy. He can finally secure his basketball future and transfer 90 percent of the focus for the next school year, onto repairing his academic problems.
I'm rooting for Iowa State or Tennessee, CIMD. Normally I'd prefer home grown players to choose either of the Wisconsin schools, but I think the best thing for Jeronne would be to get a healthy distance away from the negative influences in his life. However, seeing as though the decision is coming right after the Marquette visit, I've got to think they're the favorite.
Here's an article where Tim Maymon talks about his son aka the greatest basketball player to ever play....
WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL
Here's a quote from it:
He has been very interested in UW, but UW is not interested in him,'' Tim Maymon said. ``If they ever have to face him, they'll see why the should have got him.''
This guy needs to shut his mouth. Jeronne maymon has had terrible grades, been suspened because of gang violence in high school and he expects uw with no scholarships to go after maymon...Tim maymon is a joke.
He also throws in some words for devonte maymon who "apparently" had interest from Marquette..Probably only to get jeronne cuz they knew tim would be a sucker for it
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 14, 2009, 08:23:45 PM
Maymon. Mbakwe. Roseboro. Hazel. Christopherson. Acker (who was ultimately asked to return).
Plus the decomits from Taylor and Bowen.
Don't you think that's an unusually high number of departures in just two seasons?
You are damn right that is a lot of departures. Somebody should be asking the Coach what the hell is going on there, because this is unacceptable. And please spare me the analogies that the same thing happens at Kansas or UNC when there is so much talent there. We are not those programs.
Can we please keep this thread and others respectful? We don't know ANY of the story, yet a good portion of the people here jump to conclusions without an ounce of fact.
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 15, 2009, 12:14:50 AM
No, what's funny is watching the squirms of people who invested years developing a hatred of Tom Crean specifically because he brought in the wrong type of players, had too many transfers and couldn't land a quality big.
The record shows that Buzz also recruits players with red flags, has had a significant numbers of transfers, and has built a lineup that is not simply short, but rated 339th for average height.
The only thing left is to see whether these people use the same excuses to begin an intense hatred of Buzz, or whether they enter into full hypocrite mode and continue to blame Crean while making excuses for Buzz.
I didn't rip on Crean back then, and I'm not going to rip on Buzz now. These things happen in college basketball. But I will call out those hypocrites who treat the two coaches differently. Perhaps someday they'll accept that transfers are a part of the game, all coaches take risks in recruiting, and landing a quality big is a lot harder than they make it out to be.
I agree you have been consistant on this issue. I further agree that to be successful a school like MU needs to take chances. I further agree that when you take chances some backfire. I didn't rip TC for Manchild and I was overjoyed when MU let Crean Crean take his biggest risk with Wade (I had seen him play). My issues with TC had nothing to do with transfers or the qualifications of players he brought to Marquette. You find those who did but give Buzz a pass on this issue hypocritical. Fair enough. I find those who gave Crean a pass but rip Buzz for the same things to be hypocritical. I think you would agree.
Quote from: TomW1365 on December 14, 2009, 10:28:14 PM
This is from a friend...
Allegedly: "Tim Maymon recently (The week before the Wisconsin game) had a heated conversation with Buzz about J-May's role on the team. Reportedly the Maymon camp was extremly upset with his offensive role. Buzz basically guranteed the Maymons during the recruitment that J-May would be a featured option in the offense and that he would be a ... See Morestarter from day one, NOT coming off the bench. Buzz also ensured that J-May would be playing the 3/4 and that his role on the team would be more offensive oriented and would not be stuck only guarding the bigs.
The conversation got heated to the point where expletives were thrown into the conversation and the Maymons threatened that if J-May's role did not change soon they would not hesitate pulling him from school to look at other options where he would be a "featured option". Tim Maymon also threatened that they would take Vander with them.
They mentioned some school out in Virginia and somewhere in the south but I am not exactly sure which those are at this point."
Hopefully this isn't true... It's nuts if they expected to be a primary offensive options 10 games into his freshman season.
I find this extremely plausible, and is more or less the scenario (maybe not the details) that ran through my head the second I saw the headline. If anyone believes Tim Maymon when he says he had no idea this was happening, let me now if you like bridges. Losing the talent is a blow to be sure. Losing the individual(s) probably isn't. Also, put me in the camp that says Vander Blue and his family are smart enough not to be led around by this clown.
Let's get real here...Buzz was hired because he was willing to take some recruiting risks that had not taken place previously. When you do, you will get burned. Too early to tell how severe those burns are going to be. This hurts for this season, although I had very low expectations, and never really did give a rip about this season anyway. Not sure it hurts much at all long-term though.
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 15, 2009, 12:14:50 AM
No, what's funny is watching the squirms of people who invested years developing a hatred of Tom Crean specifically because he brought in the wrong type of players, had too many transfers and couldn't land a quality big.
The record shows that Buzz also recruits players with red flags, has had a significant numbers of transfers, and has built a lineup that is not simply short, but rated 339th for average height.
The only thing left is to see whether these people use the same excuses to begin an intense hatred of Buzz, or whether they enter into full hypocrite mode and continue to blame Crean while making excuses for Buzz.
I didn't rip on Crean back then, and I'm not going to rip on Buzz now. These things happen in college basketball. But I will call out those hypocrites who treat the two coaches differently. Perhaps someday they'll accept that transfers are a part of the game, all coaches take risks in recruiting, and landing a quality big is a lot harder than they make it out to be.
of course! Everyone knows that its Buzz's fault that our 7'2, and 6'10 guys got injured!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2009, 11:33:47 PM
I remember when James "Manchild" Mathews came to MU. If ever there was a guy with red flags he was one (and that is being extremely kind). Funny that I don't remember your admonitions beforehand or your "doesn't surprise me one@#$#@$ bit" chuckles afterwards. Matter of fact, don't remember you ripping Crean at all. Funny.
You're right AH, mostly because MUSCOOP didn't exist at the time. But since many of your memories are inaccurate on what I say even a few days or weeks ago, I would find it stunning if you had the correct memory of James Matthews and my comments from 6+ years ago. LOL.
I assumed that if anyone was going to leave, it would have been E-Will. Maymon leaving is a shock.
If Maymon goes to Tennessee, I wouldn't be surprised if Pearl had one his cronies whispering in Maymon's ear. Pearl is a scumbag's scumbag. Just remember the whole Deon Thomas/Illinois-Iowa situation.
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 15, 2009, 12:14:50 AM
The record shows that Buzz also recruits players with red flags, has had a significant numbers of transfers, and has built a lineup that is not simply short, but rated 339th for average height.
LOL. You are funny. He has built that roster in 18 months huh? Let's see...He inherited a roster that included Cubillan and Acker, and 6-5 Center, Lazaar Hayward. The average height of the overall roster is 6-4. The average height of the players he has recruited to the roster is 6-6. The average height figure you cite is 6-3, which includes only the players who have played regularly...Is O'Toule Included? No. Is Mbao included, no? McMorrow? No. I suppose Buzz is to be blamed for the those injuries. His PG got hurt, also forcing the smurf twins onto the floor.
You aren't going to rip on Buzz though. Nice try.
QuoteMaymon. Mbakwe. Roseboro. Hazel. Christopherson. Acker (who was ultimately asked to return).
Plus the decomits from Taylor and Bowen.
Don't you think that's an unusually high number of departures in just two seasons?
You are damn right that is a lot of departures. Somebody should be asking the Coach what the hell is going on there, because this is unacceptable. And please spare me the analogies that the same thing happens at Kansas or UNC when there is so much talent there. We are not those programs.
I feel like a lot of people do not pay attention to what goes on with our program, not only this year but in the past several years. Let me draw you a simple picture, Tom Crean left the team, therefore his recruits will either go w/him or elsewhere (Taylor, Mbakwe, Hazel, Christopherson). Acker was having academic issues, Jerel left, Crean recruited him.
It has been said that Bowen has cooled down some and not to many teams the caliber of MU are after him currently. Roseboro just wouldn't have cut it and was a big body, but seemed to be along the line of a European big.
Decommits happen yes, when coaches leave so do players (Calipari/Wall to Kentucky). Buzz did the right thing in what I believe is the situation with Mr. Maymon.
Quote from: MUSF on December 15, 2009, 12:16:40 AM
Don't you think this was a calculated risk on Buzz's part. I don't think Buzz ignored red flags. I think he took a risk and it didn't work out. If he could make it work, we would be calling him a genius in two years and poking Bo, the Badgers, and our former coach in the eye. The flipside to taking risks like this is knowing when to cut your losses. I think Buzz did just that. Our previous coach did this quite a bit and took a lot of flack from people on this board for it. I wonder if those people remain consistent and criticize Buzz in the same way they did TC. I hope you remain consistent and don't start lighting the torches and grabbing your pitchfork just yet.
Yes, I absolutely agree it was a calculated risk. Bo Ryan and Tom Crean were established and obviously didn't want the nonsense attached to this kid. Buzz wanted to make a splash, land a highly rated in state kid and felt the risk was worth it. Under the circumstances, totally understandable. Risk and reward is measured differently based on who is at the helm.
Quote from: mudimitri on December 14, 2009, 11:09:25 PM
Buzz needs to do a better job of making his players happy.
"Alright, men, listen up! In order to keep everyone happy we are not going to keep statistics. Also, everyone gets a trophy! Finally, every Friday I am taking you guys to Dandelion Park for free rides on the Tilt-a-Whirl!"
If we are holding out any hope that Jeronne and Buzz will figure something out in order for Jeronne to stay here, I really hope the Maymons are not readers of this site, in particular, this thread.
Embarrassed to be an MU fan today.
Quote from: TheButlerDidIt on December 15, 2009, 08:49:18 AM
If we are holding out any hope that Jeronne and Buzz will figure something out in order for Jeronne to stay here, I really hope the Maymons are not readers of this site, in particular, this thread.
Embarrassed to be an MU fan today.
Why is that? What is it in this thread you find inappropriate?
Also, why would anyone want them to figure something out. This was a known risk when he was recruited, and now it has happened. I have no interest in heading down the same road again, and I am guessing its safe to assume Buzz feels the same way. I wish the kid luck.
Quote from: TheButlerDidIt on December 15, 2009, 08:49:18 AM
If we are holding out any hope that Jeronne and Buzz will figure something out in order for Jeronne to stay here, I really hope the Maymons are not readers of this site, in particular, this thread.
Embarrassed to be an MU fan today.
That's what happens when a press release is issued that a player quit the team, it starts all the speculation, rumors, etc. If this is truly just to "make a point" to Maymon, then issuing a press release that launches a firestorm was certainly an interesting way to accomplish it.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 15, 2009, 09:02:13 AM
Why is that? What is it in this thread you find inappropriate?
Also, why would anyone want them to figure something out. This was a known risk when he was recruited, and now it has happened. I have no interest in heading down the same road again, and I am guessing its safe to assume Buzz feels the same way. I wish the kid luck.
I am going to have to say I agree with TheButlerDidIt.
This thread has WAY too much speculation. Everyone jumped on his academics, his attitude or his father. I felt that more than a few posts were inappropriate.
If you were jerrone or his family...and you read this thread, what would you think? I would be upset.
I understand that in Wisconsin, anyone's legal background can be looked up and is fair game, but someone actually posted Tim's charges. To me, that's a bit creepy. The man isn't applying for a job, he's a ballplayer's father. Again, I do understand that the imformation is available, but seriously, what point is there for it to be on a fansite message board? Seems a bit invasive, a bit TMZish.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 15, 2009, 09:02:52 AM
If this is truly just to "make a point" to Maymon, then issuing a press release that launches a firestorm was certainly an interesting way to accomplish it.
Why does anyone think that is the case? He left the team. That's it. It is well within MU's rights, and perhaps their responsibility to let people know. When players leave, schools announce it. That's not new. No matter the reason(s), it is Maymon's decision, and it is not their place to go out and speak for him and explain
his reasons. That's his choice if he wants to do that or not.
This nonsense about making a point or calling a bluff is just stupid. He left the team and they announced it. What is complicated about that?
J-May, we hardly knew ye.
Quote from: TheButlerDidIt on December 15, 2009, 08:49:18 AM
If we are holding out any hope that Jeronne and Buzz will figure something out in order for Jeronne to stay here, I really hope the Maymons are not readers of this site, in particular, this thread.
Embarrassed to be an MU fan today.
Do you really think that a MU fan message board would have that much influence on whether Maymon would re-consider his decision to quit the team? I would have to think that there would be many more factors that would be much more important that influence him one way or the other. (Relationship with coaches, relationship with players, other schools, playing time, etc).
According to Hoopmasters website on DEc. 14 story, Maymon is transferring. They quoted a "source close to the program" and confirmed by the Journal Sentinel. Two schools he is looking at are Minnesota and Iowa State. (Shades of Mbakwe and Christopherson)
As I said earlier, somebody should be asking Buzz what the hell is going on with his program!
How can this possibly happen this fast. I have two thoughts.
Does this kid realize how bad of a career move this is?
Rreally buzz? Even the mega-uber-pretty boy crean never had one leave this quick.
Quote from: MUWeb7 on December 15, 2009, 09:09:18 AM
I am going to have to say I agree with TheButlerDidIt.
Jimmy!
Quote from: RawdogDX on December 15, 2009, 10:17:39 AM
How can this possibly happen this fast. I have two thoughts.
Does this kid realize how bad of a career move this is?
Rreally buzz? Even the mega-uber-pretty boy crean never had one leave this quick.
Technically, I think Roseboro's departure still holds the record.
Quote from: RawdogDX on December 15, 2009, 10:17:39 AM
Does this kid realize how bad of a career move this is?
I'm not sure it won't ultimatley end up being a pretty good career move. I think he could really benefit from the year off to develop (mentally and physically). He seems to be a player without a position right now. A year to work on his game, without giving up an entire season (never understood why more players don't transfer mid-year) will probably be very good for him.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 15, 2009, 10:27:45 AM
A year to work on his game, without giving up an entire season (never understood why more players don't transfer mid-year) will probably be very good for him.
Because they lose playing time.
If he waits until the end of the year to transfer, he has three full years to play after sitting out.
If he transfers now, then he plays 1/2 of next year and has two full years after that.
Essentially mid year transfers end up giving up a year's worth of game time. Very few players are willing to do that.
Disappointing that Buzz was not able to manage the situation with the father and the player. These things usually take place over time and info gets out. This was very quick but seems to speak towards some incident with either the player or father. Either way you manage it if you want the player. Hard to believe things degraded that quickly and at this point in the season.
the problem with A mid year transfer is you do not get a year to develop. If he stayed at MU he would play the 2nd half of this year and the 1st and 2nd 1/2 of next. If he transfer's he would play just the 2nd 1/2 of next. Either way he would use 2 years of eligibility. A end of year transfer gets a full year to develop and does not not lose and eligbility.
Quote from: 77champs on December 15, 2009, 10:37:05 AM
Hard to believe things degraded that quickly and at this point in the season.
Agreed. Especially when it seems by all accounts that there wasn't too much noise prior to last night. This came out of the blue. Tim Maymon wasn't making a stink out of it (partially based on posts by people who saw/talked to him at the UW game).
I realize that teams like to keep things under wraps if they reflect negatively on a program, but it certainly didn't seem like there were major problems. It's awfully drastic seeing as Jeronne was starting to settle into his role as a freshman at MU.
Hoopmasters reported yesterday that a source close to the MU program told them that Maymon is transferring, and confirmed it through the Journal/Sentinel.
They said that he is looking at Minnesota and Iowa State. (Shades of Mbakwe and Christopherson)
What is going on with our program?
Maybe Tubby has a mole
MN has plenty of openings after all the miscreants they have recruited and kicked off the team or suspended to include Mbakwe
Iowa State? Better off playing for UWGB. With those two from MU, they will now be the no-jumpingest team in the Big 12.
willie....you can stop re-posting the same thing. Look up. they're getting merged into this thread.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 15, 2009, 08:36:25 AM
You're right AH, mostly because MUSCOOP didn't exist at the time. But since many of your memories are inaccurate on what I say even a few days or weeks ago, I would find it stunning if you had the correct memory of James Matthews and my comments from 6+ years ago. LOL.
In those days I didn't have the time to be a poster but was an avid reader of the MU site run by John Dodds. As is the case now with MUSCOOP, you were an authority on everything and anything (until you were banned for life). And I never recall you ripping Crean regarding Matthews or any other players/recruits. I'll anxiously await your citing examples to the contrary. LOL yourself.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2009, 10:11:07 PM
Much as it will disappoint you looks like Vander is still committed to MU.
Why on earth would that disappoint me? You're beyond ridiculous. I'm thrilled that Vander is coming to MU....I'm disappointed that Maymon is leaving.
Please, get your story together and stop making crap up about what I'm happy or disappointed about.
Buzz is here for at least the next three years, I want him to succeed because rebuilding sucks.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 15, 2009, 09:26:28 AM
This nonsense about making a point or calling a bluff is just stupid. He left the team and they announced it. What is complicated about that?
I don't know why some people believe this to be, but that it has been speculated on here by several posters. It would certainly be an odd way to do things.....and also extremely unlikely as you suggest.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on December 15, 2009, 10:39:27 AM
the problem with A mid year transfer is you do not get a year to develop. If he stayed at MU he would play the 2nd half of this year and the 1st and 2nd 1/2 of next. If he transfer's he would play just the 2nd 1/2 of next. Either way he would use 2 years of eligibility. A end of year transfer gets a full year to develop and does not not lose and eligbility.
The other problem is that it affects our scoring with the NCAA. I hope we don't release him without completing the semester, or we don't get any credit for that semester from the NCAA....that can hurt us down the road with the APR scores
QuoteDo you really think that a MU fan message board would have that much influence on whether Maymon would re-consider his decision to quit the team? I would have to think that there would be many more factors that would be much more important that influence him one way or the other. (Relationship with coaches, relationship with players, other schools, playing time, etc).
For the love of God please tell me that at MU, we don't have THIS short of a memory...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 15, 2009, 12:55:09 PM
The other problem is that it affects our scoring with the NCAA. I hope we don't release him without completing the semester, or we don't get any credit for that semester from the NCAA....that can hurt us down the road with the APR scores
Chico, Do you think anything other than his own selfish interests played into this situation? Is there any concern or regard for his team, his teammates, his coach, his school, the MU community, the Madison Memorial community, etc??? That is the essence of this whole matter - a selfish, self-centered pair of people who only think about themselves.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 15, 2009, 12:29:27 PM
In those days I didn't have the time to be a poster but was an avid reader of the MU site run by John Dodds. As is the case now with MUSCOOP, you were an authority on everything and anything (until you were banned for life). And I never recall you ripping Crean regarding Matthews or any other players/recruits. I'll anxiously await your citing examples to the contrary. LOL yourself.
Well then you didn't read much AH....you can do a search right here on this site for me ripping on Crean. It's not hard, only takes a few seconds. Happy to give you a tutorial.
Speaking of authority on everything and anything, how is Dodds doing these days? Has he eliminated every post on the Maymon indicent so that it doesn't effect the program negatively?
Quote from: warthog-driver on December 15, 2009, 02:11:28 PM
Chico, Do you think anything other than his own selfish interests played into this situation? Is there any concern or regard for his team, his teammates, his coach, his school, the MU community, the Madison Memorial community, etc??? That is the essence of this whole matter - a selfish, self-centered pair of people who only think about themselves.
Hard to argue differently at this point, suppose we'll know more in a few days. I still hope we don't release him without conditions for ARP score purposes. He should be required to finish the semester.
Quote from: warthog-driver on December 15, 2009, 02:11:28 PM
Chico, Do you think anything other than his own selfish interests played into this situation? Is there any concern or regard for his team, his teammates, his coach, his school, the MU community, the Madison Memorial community, etc??? That is the essence of this whole matter - a selfish, self-centered pair of people who only think about themselves.
I know you weren't directing the question at me, but I'll take a stab at it:
Does Maymon have a responsibility to the team? Absolutely. By quitting, he is letting them down. No doubt in my mind.
But, at the end of the day, Jeronne has to do what is right for himself, and if he is truly unhappy at MU, he needs to make a change.
I'm not saying I agree with his decision (I think he could stick it out and end up being a very good player and hopefully a happy guy), but I don't think it's reasonable to expect a kid to suffer through 4 years of college basketball (if he's unhappy) just to satisfy the fan base or the head coach or his high school.
Quote from: 2002mualum on December 15, 2009, 02:22:51 PM
I know you weren't directing the question at me, but I'll take a stab at it:
Does Maymon have a responsibility to the team? Absolutely. By quitting, he is letting them down. No doubt in my mind.
But, at the end of the day, Jeronne has to do what is right for himself, and if he is truly unhappy at MU, he needs to make a change.
I'm not saying I agree with his decision (I think he could stick it out and end up being a very good player and hopefully a happy guy), but I don't think it's reasonable to expect a kid to suffer through 4 years of college basketball (if he's unhappy) just to satisfy the fan base or the head coach or his high school.
Alum
My beef is not that he is quitting. For example, the kid who left Duke and transferred to Memphis because his mother was very ill is a noble thing. But to leave on short notice, mid stream because your own selfish interests aren't being met is too much for me to accept. I would be more gracious, somehow, if he at least waited until after this season. In my world, to leave the battlefield in the heat of combat is desertion. You may want to but you do not because you never, ever leave your buddies behind and in the lurch. My beef with Maymon is the reason he is ditching his teammates in the middle of the season. It's all about him. I really doubt he gave any consideration to his team in any of this. Hopefully Maymon will realize the importance of comradeship because life is a lot easier when you are part of a team and you have all that top cover. Clearly that is something he has not yet learned.
I do not have a problem with him transferring mid-year. Assuming he has made his mind up, there is no reason for him to stay the second semester. Most coaches knowing that a player is going to transfer is going to burry him on the end of the bench. He does not lose anytime as he will have three and 1/2 years to play at his new school.
Quote from: bilsu on December 15, 2009, 02:35:35 PM
I do not have a problem with him transferring mid-year. Assuming he has made his mind up, there is no reason for him to stay the second semester. Most coaches knowing that a player is going to transfer is going to burry him on the end of the bench. He does not lose anytime as he will have three and 1/2 years to play at his new school.
It's not the leaving or even the timing of the leaving, really. It is the reason for which he is leaving that is disgusting.
Hog,
Once again, you're all over the map.
In a previous post, you said it's not that he's quitting, it's the timing.
Quote from: warthog-driver on December 15, 2009, 02:30:43 PM
Alum
But to leave on short notice, mid stream because your own selfish interests aren't being met is too much for me to accept. I would be more gracious, somehow, if he at least waited until after this season. In my world, to leave the battlefield in the heat of combat is desertion. You may want to but you do not because you never, ever leave your buddies behind and in the lurch. My beef with Maymon is the reason he is ditching his teammates in the middle of the season.
And now you claim that it's not the timing, it's really just the fact that he's quitting.
Quote from: warthog-driver on December 15, 2009, 02:41:33 PM
It's not the leaving or even the timing of the leaving, really. It is the reason for which he is leaving that is disgusting.
Which is it? These posts are only minutes apart.
I completely understand your analogy about the military and dissertation (I have several family members in the Marines), but you are comparing life and death to college basketball. It doesn't really work.
I realize that some leadership principles are the same, and I know we even throw around terms like "boot camp" or "battle" and "war".
But, at the end of the day, these are just amateur athletes who aren't the most mature individuals, due to their age and their inexperience.
If Maymon thinks he made a mistake coming to MU, then he needs to move on. Certainly I'm frustrated by the timing, and it doesn't make him look like the most dedicated individual, but he needs to do what he thinks will ultimately make him happy.
Again, this is college sports, not the military.
"I didn't watch my buddies die face down in the mud so Jerrone Maymon could quit whenever he feels like it." - Walter Sobchak
Quote from: warthog-driver on December 15, 2009, 02:30:43 PM
Alum
In my world, to leave the battlefield in the heat of combat is desertion. You may want to but you do not because you never, ever leave your buddies behind and in the lurch. My beef with Maymon is the reason he is ditching his teammates in the middle of the season.
Ah, the old sports is a battlefield analogy. How time tested...how untrue.
THough I do respect your opinion regarding his timing...I am unwilling to assume he's "ditching" the team until I hear his official reasons. And basketball isn't war...it's a game.
The timing is odd, in that it is on the first day that finals begin. The height of stress on a college campus. I would think that this stress adds to the timing. Normally, you would expect this over Christmas when the players go home for a couple of days or after exam week. I hope for his sake he takes his tests and gets some credits. If not, then maybe the pressure was too much.... I don't know, but if he didn't take his tests, it will tell me something. Here is hoping that he lands on his feet here or somewhere else.
Quote from: 2002mualum on December 15, 2009, 02:53:33 PM
Hog,
Once again, you're all over the map.
In a previous post, you said it's not that he's quitting, it's the timing.
And now you claim that it's not the timing, it's really just the fact that he's quitting.
Which is it? These posts are only minutes apart.
I completely understand your analogy about the military and dissertation (I have several family members in the Marines), but you are comparing life and death to college basketball. It doesn't really work.
I realize that some leadership principles are the same, and I know we even throw around terms like "boot camp" or "battle" and "war".
But, at the end of the day, these are just amateur athletes who aren't the most mature individuals, due to their age and their inexperience.
If Maymon thinks he made a mistake coming to MU, then he needs to move on. Certainly I'm frustrated by the timing, and it doesn't make him look like the most dedicated individual, but he needs to do what he thinks will ultimately make him happy.
Again, this is college sports, not the military.
"I didn't watch my buddies die face down in the mud so Jerrone Maymon could quit whenever he feels like it." - Walter Sobchak
See my post above yours. My point has always been the reason for his quitting rather than the fact of quitting. I don't like that he's quitting mid stream but that is secondary to the reason for his quitting. As for the edit on my post, I had to get up and get the door - the Fed Ex guy was there. I hit send before proofing my copy. Always, always pre-flight your gear!