I debated whether to post this and I may take some criticism for it, but I have it from an excellent source that the announcement of (at least) one more player departure from the MU men's hoops program is imminent.
Out of respect for the player(s) -- as well as the (remote) chance that something changes -- I am not going reveal who the player(s) is/are. That said, the decision has apparently been made, Buzz has been informed (and, incidentally, is back on the recruiting trail for '09 players) and the annoucement could be made at any time.
I'm posting this for three reasons: (1) to share the information; (2) to express concern over yet another departure and the likely unbalance that would result from having 6 (or 7!) freshmen on next year's team; and (3) to add some veracity to various reports that we are not yet done for next year.
I scanned other topics briefly and didn't see anything on this -- and I apologize if it has been covered.
Anyway, take it for what it's worth.
And ... Go Marquette.
Confirmed.
I thought only Crean lost players?
out of respect....don't say any names. How about initials or perhaps a word that rhymes with that persons last name? I am totally out of the loop and would like to know who is out/or leaving.
I'd hate to see more turnover. We need some stability at this time - wow.
Interesting. I assume we'll know soon enough.
Still, between the loss of recruits from the coaching change and the graduating class of four starting seniors, we knew we were thin on experience. So long as its not Lazar leaving, we're not losing much in the way of "minutes" experience, although there's no player I'd like to see gone. Even if not contributing much in games, seems like a solid group of guys.
Is it an under or upper class player?
With these the thing I always want to know is whether the player wants a better suited opportunity or if the coach wants a better player. If this is the former, I have no problems with the departure whatsoever. If it's the latter, I'm going to be very, very disappointed.
Quote from: McPants on May 31, 2009, 10:03:06 PM
So long as its not Lazar leaving, we're not losing much in the way of "minutes" experience, although there's no player I'd like to see gone.
Agreed - but who knows the reasoning. From my count (ok, actually the scholarship table (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8)), we only have 6 returning - Lazar, Acker, Cubillan, Fulce, Butler, and Otule.
Hard to see Lazar, Acker, or Cubillan leaving unless they have enough credits to graduate. If so, they'd have to sit out a year for only a year more of playing at another school.
Butler or Fulce leaving would be surprising, unless Fulce doesn't think he can play anymore. Though the interview a couple days ago didn't indicate he intended to give up playing.
That leave Otule. Who I guess would surprise me the least. I guess we just wait for a Rosiak blog or MU PR to find out...unless someone wants to spill the beans here.
Got to be Otule, he couldn't get minutes when MU had no other bigs....
I hope it's not one of the incoming kids.... is that possible? Oh I hate this stuff.....
Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 31, 2009, 10:11:52 PM
Agreed - but who knows the reasoning. From my count (ok, actually the scholarship table (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8)), we only have 6 returning - Lazar, Acker, Cubillan, Fulce, Butler, and Otule.
Hard to see Lazar, Acker, or Cubillan leaving unless they have enough credits to graduate. If so, they'd have to sit out a year for only a year more of playing at another school.
Wouldn't they have walked last week then?
I stand by what I said during the Liam speculation
Cubby to Venezuella (if his shoulders are ok) or Acker leaving to be part of Jerel's crew
With seven newcomers next year I would be more shocked if we DIDN'T have someone leaving.
Quote from: mu77vegas on May 31, 2009, 10:42:09 PM
With seven newcomers next year I would be more shocked if we DIDN'T have someone leaving.
+1
With the incoming class and a new coach, this is the year of the turnover.
Last year it was still the three amigos team, this year it is Buzz's team with his guys that he is building for the future. It's unfortunate, but some of the old guard (the upper classmen) may not have a place on this team at all despite possibly being worthy of PT.
Quote from: Daniel on May 31, 2009, 10:23:49 PM
I hope it's not one of the incoming kids.... is that possible? Oh I hate this stuff.....
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. There were some rumblings during the Mbao commitment that Roseboro was possibly considering prep school.
We shall see, though, if this all ends up being correct.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on May 31, 2009, 11:00:29 PM
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. There were some rumblings during the Mbao commitment that Roseboro was possibly considering prep school.
We shall see, though, if this all ends up being correct.
I don't recall hearing anything about Roseboro's considerations. Was he miffed that we were scouting out another big, or did those rumors just come about at the same time? Because if it's the former, the skill sets of both players are very different and could easily coexist on the same court...
I would hate to lose an incoming player, though. Talk to me a few weeks ago, and I would have told you Fulce. But as someone else mentioned above, Rosiak's article made his case sound a little more optimistic.
We'll see soon enough if someone is indeed departing.
I appreciate Rocky "narrowing" the list down.
I'm on the edge of my seat for this one...
Nevertheless, MORE TIME for the young ones! Get them seasoned already!!! ;D
The is very disappointing, not just because a player is leaving, but because it is happening so late. My guess is that by now, the incoming freshmen and potential JUCOs for 2009-10 are pretty well picked over. Would we be better off to bank the scholarship for 2010-11?
If it were Acker or Cubes, that would be my course of action. If it were Otule, I would think that we would almost have to pick up someone with some size otherwise we are right back where we were this year with no serviceable big man...at least one with experience.
Quote from: Ari Gold on May 31, 2009, 10:28:17 PM
...or Acker leaving to be part of Jerel's crew
That would be horrible. We need a PG that has played Big East minutes. Without Acker the first half of next year will be rough :(
I worked at the Al on Saturday for the AAU tournament, and saw for sure O'Tule and Fulce leaving between 8-9 in the morning. Later I believe I saw Butler leaving the Al, but I am not 100% positive that it was him.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 01, 2009, 08:06:11 AM
The is very disappointing, not just because a player is leaving, but because it is happening so late. My guess is that by now, the incoming freshmen and potential JUCOs for 2009-10 are pretty well picked over. Would we be better off to bank the scholarship for 2010-11?
If it were Acker or Cubes, that would be my course of action. If it were Otule, I would think that we would almost have to pick up someone with some size otherwise we are right back where we were this year with no serviceable big man...at least one with experience.
I would think that's what would be best. Hell, throw Rob on the bench for another year. But don't burn that scholarship on someone just to use it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 01, 2009, 08:06:11 AM
The is very disappointing, not just because a player is leaving, but because it is happening so late. My guess is that by now, the incoming freshmen and potential JUCOs for 2009-10 are pretty well picked over. Would we be better off to bank the scholarship for 2010-11?
If it were Acker or Cubes, that would be my course of action. If it were Otule, I would think that we would almost have to pick up someone with some size otherwise we are right back where we were this year with no serviceable big man...at least one with experience.
Since we're currently over the limit, I don't think we'd have a scholly to bank. (Yes, I know about the scholarship table on the wiki)
Quote from: IAmMarquette on June 01, 2009, 02:14:13 PM
Since we're currently over the limit, I don't think we'd have a scholly to bank. (Yes, I know about the scholarship table on the wiki)
You might want to check the scholarship table again, MU is not over the limit after the departures of Liam and Pat.
Quote from: jmayer1 on June 01, 2009, 02:17:02 PM
You might want to check the scholarship table again, MU is not over the limit after the departures of Liam and Pat.
[Lumbergh]
Gonna have to go ahead and, ah, disagree with you there: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8)
[/Lumbergh]
EDIT: Whoops. You're right. Not over the limit, but at the limit. Still, don't have to worry about banking anything.
EDIT: wow. I get it...with another departure, we'd be one under the limit. Comprehension FAIL.
We'll be worrying about banking to replace whoever is gonna leave's scholly.
If true, you bank the scholly for next season. That way, you can add Blue and a legit 5 man.
Better yet, with two open spots, Buzz can show just how good of a recruiter he is and make a strong run for Kyrie Irving and Tobias Harris. Those two will haunt us on the other side.
It's probably Otule who looked totally lost when playing garbage minutes. I don't have a problem with him leaving...if a guy can't cut it's not fair to him or the program to keep him around.
Quote from: jt92 on June 01, 2009, 03:21:15 PM
It's probably Otule who looked totally lost when playing garbage minutes. I don't have a problem with him leaving...if a guy can't cut it's not fair to him or the program to keep him around.
So... you think that we're going to get rid of the only guy that has a chance of filling the 5 spot at the beginning of next year?
I don't agree at all that he looked (overly) lost last year (he was hurt and didn't get much PT, what did you expect?), but that's besides the point. Even if I did agree that Otule wasn't very good there's no way you can count on Mbao to come in and contribute. Big guys take a notoriously long time to develop.
Plus from all accounts Buzz and Otule are really close, so I don't see Otule leaving nor Buzz kicking him off the team.
My bet is on Cubes. The guy is buried in the lineup and will not see much more than 7 minutes on any given night.
With all due respect to David, his departure would be the one we could handle best. I fear it's someone else, though.
Quote from: jt92 on June 01, 2009, 03:21:15 PM
It's probably Otule who looked totally lost when playing garbage minutes. I don't have a problem with him leaving...if a guy can't cut it's not fair to him or the program to keep him around.
Do people not get it?!?!?!
Chris Otule's freshman year cannot be evaluated...if it were a report card, it would be an "Incomplete."
1. Lets be honest, he was an unranked freshman big man. Even if healthy...how many of them contribute their freshman year? (Regardless of what Buzz says...I am not expecting anything out of Mbao next year...)
2. Otule broke his foot, which is one of the worst types of injuries for a man his size.
3. Because of the break, he missed the most imporatnt part of the season for an incoming freshman...he was farther behind than your average freshman.
Now, I dont know if Otule will transfer...
frankly, I question the validity of the inital report. To write him off the way people are is just plain ignorant...
I don't really get the point of delaying this announcement. Could Buzz have another player on the hook? Is he waiting to have a kid sign and only then will this "unknown" player leave?
Quote from: GOMU1104 on June 01, 2009, 03:36:18 PM
Do people not get it?!?!?!
Chris Otule's freshman year cannot be evaluated...if it were a report card, it would be an "Incomplete."
1. Lets be honest, he was an unranked freshman big man. Even if healthy...how many of them contribute their freshman year? (Regardless of what Buzz says...I am not expecting anything out of Mbao next year...)
2. Otule broke his foot, which is one of the worst types of injuries for a man his size.
3. Because of the break, he missed the most imporatnt part of the season for an incoming freshman...he was farther behind than your average freshman.
Now, I dont know if Otule will transfer...frankly, I question the validity of the inital report.
To write him off the way people are is just plain ignorant...
I completely agree. My expectations were pretty low for him and I thought he was fine last season. My expectations for him this season is to just be good enough to be part of the rotation. I don't think he will make much of an impact in most games. Its ok though. That's why he was and still is a project.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on June 01, 2009, 03:43:04 PM
I completely agree. My expectations were pretty low for him and I thought he was fine last season. My expectations for him this season is to just be good enough to be part of the rotation. I don't think he will make much of an impact in most games. Its ok though. That's why he was and still is a project.
My expectations for Otule this season are for him to be better than Burke was last season. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation for this young man.
Quote from: jt92 on June 01, 2009, 03:21:15 PM
It's probably Otule who looked totally lost when playing garbage minutes. I don't have a problem with him leaving...if a guy can't cut it's not fair to him or the program to keep him around.
Otule will be playing regularly next season. We'll see flashes and we'll have disappointments but he will be nothing like he was last year.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on June 01, 2009, 03:43:04 PM
I completely agree. My expectations were pretty low for him and I thought he was fine last season. My expectations for him this season is to just be good enough to be part of the rotation. I don't think he will make much of an impact in most games. Its ok though. That's why he was and still is a project.
+1. I hope this is not a "revenge" posting by a rodent fan feeling Blue.
smells like a troll post
I guess it's not worth thinking about. Hopefully no one leaves.
Quote from: mviale on June 01, 2009, 08:57:08 PM
smells like a troll post
I doubt it. If you go back to look at the original poster's messages, he has been out front of a couple of issues including Buzz's hiring last year.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 02, 2009, 07:50:50 AM
I doubt it. If you go back to look at the original poster's messages, he has been out front of a couple of issues including Buzz's hiring last year.
But he doesn't post every day so he's not a good MU fan and couldn't possible know anything about whats going on, or even basketball for that matter, because if he was a better or knowledgeable fan, he would post every day
Quote from: buckchuckler on June 02, 2009, 10:22:42 AM
But he doesn't post every day so he's not a good MU fan and couldn't possible know anything about whats going on, or even basketball for that matter, because if he was a better or knowledgeable fan, he would post every day
You don't have to use teal. We all know that post count doesn't equate to basketball knowledge. It's common knowledge that an individual's post count correlates directly to their penis size.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 02, 2009, 10:43:30 AM
It's common knowledge that an individual's post count correlates directly to their penis size.
Isn't it an indirect correlation? :P
Quote from: jmayer1 on June 02, 2009, 11:12:30 AM
Isn't it an indirect correlation? :P
Actually, its a direct, inverse correlation. ::)
Quote from: ErickJD08 on June 01, 2009, 03:30:16 PM
My bet is on Cubes. The guy is buried in the lineup and will not see much more than 7 minutes on any given night.
mysentiments exactly i would personally love to see him stay. No way we can get anyone right now that would be better this upcoming year than cuby would be. however, he will be buried and i could understand if he wanted to leave. We would miss his leadership though and Cubes was always the first one off the bench cheering his teamates on and always seemed to work extremely hard with a tremendous attitude. we would miss him
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 01, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
My expectations for Otule this season are for him to be better than Burke was last season. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation for this young man.
dont count on it...Otule has a long way to go and Burke last season was the product of 4 years of practice and weight training to expect Otule to be better than burke after 1 year is a significant stretch...maybe by his Junior year if we are lucky. Burke was a pretty good athlete.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on June 02, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
mysentiments exactly i would personally love to see him stay. No way we can get anyone right now that would be better this upcoming year than cuby would be. however, he will be buried and i could understand if he wanted to leave. We would miss his leadership though and Cubes was always the first one off the bench cheering his teamates on and always seemed to work extremely hard with a tremendous attitude. we would miss him
Ditto... Everyone was talking about Junior's conditioning and I never thought it would be an issue with Cubes sticking him in practice.
Quote from: AZWarrior on June 02, 2009, 12:19:13 PM
Actually, its a direct, inverse correlation. ::)
I thought it size was an inverse correlation to the number of times the poster is on ignore.
:D
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 02, 2009, 01:26:42 PM
I thought it size was an inverse correlation to the number of times the poster is on ignore.
:D
If I'm reading you correctly, are you saying that the poster's penis size is smaller the more times he is on ignore?
News must be slow.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 02, 2009, 03:59:36 PM
News must be slow.
This board was speculating over a month that McMorrow was done before it was annouced.
Well let me put this out early then... I think Junior is leaving.
In 2012. ;)
Let's hope that Junior stays to graduate and finish his Senior year in 2012-2013. :P
word on the street - Junior is jumping to the Pros
is junior on campus yet? buyks is here, and there has been news on some others. when does everyone show up?
I had thought Cube would leave all season - didn't seem he have the same nitch with Buzz that he had with Crean. Hope not, but losing Acker would be much worse I'm afraid. We have to have a seasoned point guard next year - just not comfortable with a freshman getting 100% of the responsibility for point out of the gates. We got lucky to have DJ able to do it freshman year, but I don't want to gamble on that happening again.
Quote from: thanooj on June 02, 2009, 11:16:09 PM
is junior on campus yet? buyks is here, and there has been news on some others. when does everyone show up?
Probably end of June early July. Junior just finished classes on Friday and Williams finishes tomorrow so they will likely be here first. Maymon and Roseboro still have a few more weeks of classes before graduation.
Not sure about DJO or Mbao.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on June 02, 2009, 11:44:33 PM
I had thought Cube would leave all season - didn't seem he have the same nitch with Buzz that he had with Crean.
I shared the same view but at the end of season Buzz spoke highly of what Cubillan went through this season and you'll notice that both Butler and Fulce spoke of the leadership that was coming from Hayward and Cubillan.
Quote from: bma725 on June 02, 2009, 11:49:16 PM
Probably end of June early July. Junior just finished classes on Friday and Williams finishes tomorrow so they will likely be here first. Maymon and Roseboro still have a few more weeks of classes before graduation.
All Madison high schools graduate on June 13 or 14. (I have a nephew graduating from West.)
I forgot what MU player videos they were, but I think it was with Liam doing the interviews that when he asked who had the purest shot, three of the players said Coobey.
Quote from: NCMUFan on June 03, 2009, 09:01:32 AM
I forgot what MU player videos they were, but I think it was with Liam doing the interviews that when he asked who had the purest shot, three of the players said Coobey.
Pure bricks.... I love the kid but his FG% has been horrendous the last two years. Regardless, for many reasons, I hope this thread continues down the path of non-newsworthiness. I like the squad and I think its as good as its gonna get.
I think marquette might be better if we get this guy!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474101/New-worlds-tallest-man-stands-towering-8ft-5ins.html
Quote from: muhannan on June 03, 2009, 11:11:25 AM
I think marquette might be better if we get this guy!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474101/New-worlds-tallest-man-stands-towering-8ft-5ins.html
You can't teach height.
But remember - big men take time to develop! That guy would take forever...!
Quote from: muhannan on June 03, 2009, 11:11:25 AM
I think marquette might be better if we get this guy!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474101/New-worlds-tallest-man-stands-towering-8ft-5ins.html
how many "Ackers" tall is this guy?
Quote from: muhannan on June 03, 2009, 11:11:25 AM
I think marquette might be better if we get this guy!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474101/New-worlds-tallest-man-stands-towering-8ft-5ins.html
Actually, at the bottom of the article, there's this note:
The UK's tallest man is Neil Fingleton, who was measured at 7ft 7.56ins at the Guinness World Records offices on January 29 2007.Neil Fingleton was a backup center on the Holy Cross team that MU beat in the 2003 NCAAs.
Yes, I actually remembered this guy. I need a life. :P
Quote from: thanooj on June 03, 2009, 10:37:49 PM
how many "Ackers" tall is this guy?
Hah - for those that missed the thread, rumor is that Acker might be off the team, but it's not set in stone yet.
'nuff said.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on June 04, 2009, 12:09:57 AM
Actually, at the bottom of the article, there's this note:
The UK's tallest man is Neil Fingleton, who was measured at 7ft 7.56ins at the Guinness World Records offices on January 29 2007.
Neil Fingleton was a backup center on the Holy Cross team that MU beat in the 2003 NCAAs.
Yes, I actually remembered this guy. I need a life. :P
Fingleton was also a McDonald's All American and consensus top 50 player, making him the biggest bust in the game in more ways than one.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 04, 2009, 01:47:32 AM
Hah - for those that missed the thread, rumor is that Acker might be off the team, but it's not set in stone yet.
'nuff said.
What thread? Off the team, as in kicked off?
sorry my man, it appears the thread has been deleted. you snooze you lose.
It must have been taken down quickly!
Not really, I think it was up for at least 6 hours.
Quote from: MU_B2002 on June 04, 2009, 10:26:16 AM
Not really, I think it was up for at least 6 hours.
Life in the internets age --- 6 hours is a long time. Oy.
Quote from: MU_B2002 on June 04, 2009, 10:26:16 AM
Not really, I think it was up for at least 6 hours.
For those of us with lives 6 hours isn't that long.
Quote from: mu77vegas on June 04, 2009, 12:47:32 PM
For those of us with lives 6 hours isn't that long.
Wow, thanks. I would consider my wife, child, and job a life. And I still think for a "controversial topic" on this board 6 hours seems to be a long time. The initial James to play against MO thread was up and gone in what seemed like a much shorter time frame.
Mods- did you receive a request to take the thread down? If so, from whom?
Quote from: ATWizJr on June 04, 2009, 01:15:44 PM
Mods- did you receive a request to take the thread down? If so, from whom?
That is a good question. Were you self-censoring, or did we receive a request like we did with the Hazel thing?
If you hurry and do a Google search on "maurice acker leaving marquette" you can find a summary of the recent post.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 04, 2009, 01:50:36 PM
If you hurry and do a Google search on "maurice acker leaving marquette" you can find a summary of the recent post.
Well that is interesting. Is this another situation similar to the whole Pat Hazel thing? We're just not going to talk about this in respect to the player?
Can anyone confirm that Acker is the player who was originally rumored to be leaving?
Mods - Why was the post deleted?
Yes, I hadn't seen the thread until later last night .. someone at Marquette, through an intermediary, asked us to remove the thread, and we complied.
I just don't get it I guess.
Is MUSCOOP sponsored by Marquette? Do you guys receive money from them to keep the site up and running? If that is true then they have something to hold over the site's head. If not, there is no reason to lay down everytime someone finds something out and asks you guys to take it down.
If it happened, it deserves the same amount of conversation as anything else dedicated to our school's program.
Quote from: warrior55 on June 04, 2009, 03:42:24 PM
I just don't get it I guess.
Is MUSCOOP sponsored by Marquette? Do you guys receive money from them to keep the site up and running? If that is true then they have something to hold over the site's head. If not, there is no reason to lay down everytime someone finds something out and asks you guys to take it down.
If it happened, it deserves the same amount of conversation as anything else dedicated to our school's program.
It was private information about a private citizen attending a private university. Additionally, it was unconfirmed information which could about to libel... or at best make the poster look like a douche for posting BS.
Taking down information like that is the right thing to do. If it's information that comes into the public domain we can discuss it then. There's no sense in messing up a young man's college career slash life over some unconfirmed hearsay.
The Mods did an exemplary job in this matter. The allegations are just that and have no verification, just an "I heard" issue. If the facts are true, then the university will make a formal statement and the discussion can commence at that point. From the lessons learned in the Vander Blue matter, the appropriate thing to do was lock it.
Quote from: warrior55 on June 04, 2009, 03:42:24 PM
I just don't get it I guess.
Is MUSCOOP sponsored by Marquette? Do you guys receive money from them to keep the site up and running? If that is true then they have something to hold over the site's head. If not, there is no reason to lay down everytime someone finds something out and asks you guys to take it down.
If it happened, it deserves the same amount of conversation as anything else dedicated to our school's program.
This is a private site.
The mods can set the rules and topics and they see fit.
This has nothing to do with "public rights" or "right to privacy", this has to do with a private entity (MUSCOOP) making a decision about what posts should be allowed.
If you don't care for that, you are welcome to post on another site, or start your own.
Mods, great job!
Wow - if true, a sad way to end your college career. However, I guess he's close to graduating and may be able to make a buck playing in Europe.
We're pretty much damned if we do, damned if we don't on that one. Even with what we did, I got hate mail today.
Truth is, especially with google, it's pretty much impossible to unring the bell anyhow.
Glad I installed the filter to automatically forward my hate mail to you (hilltopper) and have it deleted from my inbox. Makes my life more pleasant ;)
Quote from: Kramerica on June 04, 2009, 02:39:35 PM
Can anyone confirm that Acker is the player who was originally rumored to be leaving?
Good question, now that a name has surfaced, it be interesting to see if it's the same name MULS1999 heard...
Quote from: 2002mualum on June 04, 2009, 04:00:44 PM
This is a private site.
The mods can set the rules and topics and they see fit.
This has nothing to do with "public rights" or "right to privacy", this has to do with a private entity (MUSCOOP) making a decision about what posts should be allowed.
If you don't care for that, you are welcome to post on another site, or start your own.
Mods, great job!
+100
Kudos to the mods for taking it down. I saw the original post and frankly was surprised it was still up then. At least one poster had already requested it come down.
If I was Acker, and they didn't tell me that PG next year was my job to lose, I'd leave too.
He's a senior and has earned the first shot-------if Junior beats him out fair and square fine-----but if MA senses that he's going to be shoved aside without legit competition for that spot rumors may be true.
Quote from: Murffieus on June 05, 2009, 06:49:04 AM
If I was Acker, and they didn't tell me that PG next year was my job to lose, I'd leave too.
He's a senior and has earned the first shot-------if Junior beats him out fair and square fine-----but if MA senses that he's going to be shoved aside without legit competition for that spot rumors may be true.
Murff, if you actually read the post you would know that rumor didn't mention a thing about a playing time, it was about an act that Acker supposedly committed which would no longer allow him to be a student athlete at Marquette. On the court play wasn't involved.
That being said, Murff's point may have .. encouraged .. a player who has known the rules for 4 years to be .. sloppy .. in following those rules. Pure speculation, of course.
Please don't go any farther with this speculation right now. Perhaps this thread should be locked until there is actual information.
Quote from: Warriors4ever on June 05, 2009, 09:38:14 AM
Please don't go any farther with this speculation right now. Perhaps this thread should be locked until there is actual information.
I agree. Same thing happened with Hazel leaving: any and all threads on the topic turned into those in the know constantly telling those not in the know to not speculate on things they don't know about. Why even allow that sort of exchange to go on?
If people think Acker is entitled to his privacy, fine. It's just frustrating to see how the speculation is handled on this board.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on June 04, 2009, 04:37:45 PM
Good question, now that a name has surfaced, it be interesting to see if it's the same name MULS1999 heard...
While there may be a time in the future when further substantive comment is appropriate, I'm certain that now isn't that time. Speculation over the lives of 20-year old amateur student-athletes is unavoidable in a community of fans like this one, but I think we need to tread carefully with our appetite for specifics such as names and, particularly, circumstances. Not surprisingly then, I am 100% in support of the actions taken by the moderators in this episode.
My hope remains that there will be no further news on the subject and that all of our returning players are in uniform, healthy and productive on/off the court next season.
That said, as much as I wish it wasn't so, I stand behind the information that prompted me to make my initial post.
Onwards ...
do you actually talk like that or do you just dress it up when you write?
just sayin.
My guess is that is how he/she writes...
MULS1999
Marquette University Law School 1999.
Quote from: warrior55 on June 04, 2009, 03:42:24 PM
I just don't get it I guess.
Is MUSCOOP sponsored by Marquette? Do you guys receive money from them to keep the site up and running? If that is true then they have something to hold over the site's head. If not, there is no reason to lay down everytime someone finds something out and asks you guys to take it down.
If it happened, it deserves the same amount of conversation as anything else dedicated to our school's program.
I agree with this 100%. A few years ago I posted on the old rivals board that I heard Dameon Mason talking on campus about how he couldn't take Crean anymore and wanted to transfer to Kentucky or LSU, yet the Mods took it down because apparently Mason's father objected.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 05, 2009, 11:26:42 AM
do you actually talk like that or do you just dress it up when you write?
just sayin.
Ha! Fair point. I just re-read that, and it's even worse than normal. :D
I'm trying to be, perhaps, overly precise and careful in what I say and how I say it. And apparently, that's a formula for ultra-dense and borderline unintelligible writing. My apologies.
Quote from: MULS1999 on June 05, 2009, 11:47:54 AM
Ha! Fair point. I just re-read that, and it's even worse than normal. :D
I'm trying to be, perhaps, overly precise and careful in what I say and how I say it. And apparently, that's a formula for ultra-dense and borderline unintelligible writing. My apologies.
Just remember, you're on the internet. If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!" Here's a little sample:
Quote from: MULS1999
While there may be a time in the future when further substantive comment is appropriate, I'm certain that now isn't that time lol!! Speculation over the lives of 20-year old amateur student-athletes is unavoidable in a community of fans like this one, but I think we need to tread carefully with our appetite for specifics such as names and, particularly, circumstances lol!! Not surprisingly then, I am 100% in support of the actions taken by the moderators in this episode lol!!
My hope remains that there will be no further news on the subject and that all of our returning players are in uniform, healthy and productive on/off the court next season lol!!
That said, as much as I wish it wasn't so, I stand behind the information that prompted me to make my initial post lol!!
Onwards lol!! lol!! lol!!
Quote from: g0lden3agle on June 05, 2009, 10:03:08 AM
Same thing happened with Hazel leaving: any and all threads on the topic turned into those in the know constantly telling those not in the know to not speculate on things they don't know about.
A major +1.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on June 05, 2009, 11:44:42 AM
I agree with this 100%. A few years ago I posted on the old rivals board that I heard Dameon Mason talking on campus about how he couldn't take Crean anymore and wanted to transfer to Kentucky or LSU, yet the Mods took it down because apparently Mason's father objected.
There's any easy fix for this.
Start your own board, moderate it yourself, and you can feel free to talk about anything you want LOL.
EDIT: LOL
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 05, 2009, 01:04:06 PM
Just remember, you're on the internet. If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!" Here's a little sample:
lol
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 05, 2009, 01:04:06 PM
Just remember, you're on the internet. If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!" Here's a little sample:
Hilarious lol!
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 05, 2009, 01:04:06 PM
Just remember, you're on the internet. If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!" Here's a little sample:
lol? Ohhhhhh lol
QuoteI just don't get it I guess.
Is MUSCOOP sponsored by Marquette? Do you guys receive money from them to keep the site up and running? If that is true then they have something to hold over the site's head. If not, there is no reason to lay down everytime someone finds something out and asks you guys to take it down.
If it happened, it deserves the same amount of conversation as anything else dedicated to our school's program.
I agree with this 100%. A few years ago I posted on the old rivals board that I heard Dameon Mason talking on campus about how he couldn't take Crean anymore and wanted to transfer to Kentucky or LSU, yet the Mods took it down because apparently Mason's father objected.
Thank you for speaking up SCdem@MU
I am glad there is someone else out there that is thinking like me.
Quote from: warrior55 on June 05, 2009, 01:22:38 PM
Thank you for speaking up SCdem@MU
I am glad there is someone else out there that is thinking like me.
Has the Vander Blue incident taught you guys nothing? How about former MU recruit Terrance Boyd deciding not to go to Kentucky because of message board posts?
Whether or not this or any other board is sponsored by Marquette is completely irrelevant. This is a place where fans, parents, coaches, opponents and even players/recruits come to gauge the fan base. Rumors/innuendo about players/recruits/coaches unless they can be 100% verified carry the possibility of negatively effecting the program.
As MU fans, you should be thanking the moderators for providing you with a place to talk about hoops and doing what they can to show the program in the best light rather than b*tching about your supposed lack of free speech.
Quote from: MULS1999 on June 05, 2009, 11:09:55 AM
While there may be a time in the future when further substantive comment is appropriate, I'm certain that now isn't that time. Speculation over the lives of 20-year old amateur student-athletes is unavoidable in a community of fans like this one, but I think we need to tread carefully with our appetite for specifics such as names and, particularly, circumstances. Not surprisingly then, I am 100% in support of the actions taken by the moderators in this episode.
My hope remains that there will be no further news on the subject and that all of our returning players are in uniform, healthy and productive on/off the court next season.
That said, as much as I wish it wasn't so, I stand behind the information that prompted me to make my initial post.
Onwards ...
If you care so much about the privacy of these 20 year old amatuer athletes why make the post in the first place? I understand you didn't speculate, but you brought light to this matter, and then reject the speculation caused by your post. I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for doing this?
Quote from: warrior55 on June 05, 2009, 01:22:38 PM
Thank you for speaking up SCdem@MU
I am glad there is someone else out there that is thinking like me.
You guys should get together and start your own blog.
Hopefully I'm not crossing any line here, but without being specific, can I ask if anyone is surprised by the specific allegation involved (not necessarily the player)? I thought it was sort of well known.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 05, 2009, 01:59:30 PM
Hopefully I'm not crossing any line here, but without being specific, can I ask if anyone is surprised by the specific allegation involved (not necessarily the player)? I thought it was sort of well known.
I would think so as well. But then again, I also would think ALL college athletes would know and expect to be randomly tested for such things.
QuoteHas the Vander Blue incident taught you guys nothing? How about former MU recruit Terrance Boyd deciding not to go to Kentucky because of message board posts?
Whether or not this or any other board is sponsored by Marquette is completely irrelevant. This is a place where fans, parents, coaches, opponents and even players/recruits come to gauge the fan base. Rumors/innuendo about players/recruits/coaches unless they can be 100% verified carry the possibility of negatively effecting the program.
As MU fans, you should be thanking the moderators for providing you with a place to talk about hoops and doing what they can to show the program in the best light rather than b*tching about your supposed lack of free speech.
The Vander Blue incident is completely different than the one we have here. I was a big fan of who may or may not get into trouble or transfer or be dismissed from the school with which this message board is tied to. The Vander Blue incident was about bashing a kid who might be coming to your school, and who is still a minor.
The incident that might surface with someone in the program, hopefully will be discussed on here when the news hits. I am still shocked that no one can whisper what happened with Hazel on here. Everyone knows what happened but its supposed to be kept hush hush. Too many people in today's world like to cover stuff up than face the truth. I believe in facing the truth. Apparently I am in the minority.
Quote from: warrior55 on June 05, 2009, 02:27:57 PM
The Vander Blue incident is completely different than the one we have here. I was a big fan of who may or may not get into trouble or transfer or be dismissed from the school with which this message board is tied to. The Vander Blue incident was about bashing a kid who might be coming to your school, and who is still a minor.
The incident that might surface with someone in the program, hopefully will be discussed on here when the news hits. I am still shocked that no one can whisper what happened with Hazel on here. Everyone knows what happened but its supposed to be kept hush hush. Too many people in today's world like to cover stuff up than face the truth. I believe in facing the truth. Apparently I am in the minority.
The Vander Blue incident points out the effect message boards can have on the program. A recruit chose not to keep a commitment because of message board comments. Same thing happened at UK. A recruit(not a minor) chose not to commit to a school because of message boards.
Whether you believe it or not, recruits use these boards to gauge the fanbase, and if they see people bashing a current player it effects their decision on whether or not they want to go to school here. Even premium boards aren't safe places for discussion anymore, parents and players/recruits pay for premium subscriptions just to make sure they aren't missing out on any opinions.
At the end of the day, the truth is often in opposition with what is best for the health of the program.
I have gone through a huge number of message boards for sports teams, including college and pro sports, and in my opinion none are as well run as MUScoop. It is very organized and easy to follow but at the same time is not just a list of every single post made, like some are. It is also free to use, which is a major plus. I will support whatever the moderators feel is appropriate because I feel they do a better job of running a FREE sight than anything I've seen in other forums, including ones you have to pay just to see what others are posting on.
Some of the other forums I have looked at: northsidebaseball, brewersfan, a St. Louis Cardinals forum, and every single forum included in "Other Teams Boards"
Nothing is as well run as this and it's free, so moderators, please keep doing what you're doing.
Quote from: warrior55 on June 05, 2009, 02:27:57 PMThe incident that might surface with someone in the program, hopefully will be discussed on here when the news hits. I am still shocked that no one can whisper what happened with Hazel on here. Everyone knows what happened but its supposed to be kept hush hush. Too many people in today's world like to cover stuff up than face the truth. I believe in facing the truth. Apparently I am in the minority.
Also, just because we attempt to keep it from getting on message boards does not mean that, if the rumors are true, the player will not have to "face the truth." It's one thing to "face the truth" and another thing to have the "truth" posted all over the internet for the rest of the world to see. The difference between people on this forum "facing the truth" and a Marquette University basketball player "facing the truth" is that "facing the truth" for the basketball player, in your opinion, is letting the world know about it and dealing with it, whereas for those posting on this forum "facing the truth" is having your parents find out you made a mistake and that is about it. If the rumors are true, then, as the title of this thread shows, that person will have to "face the truth" and depart from the team. Is that not "facing the truth" enough? If you got caught for (enter any offense here), would you like every single person you know to hear about it? If you did get caught, would you go and tell everyone you know, so that you "faced the truth?" The player will "face the truth" when they have to leave the team and explain it to somebody when attempting to get a job. It doesn't have to be all over the internet for the world to see.
Look .. this is challenging for many reasons.
Yes, we're not affiliated with Marquette. Truth is, there's a forum that exists that is dedicated to Marquette Approved Information. MUScoop is decidedly, and purposely, less strict.
I've always thought of these forums and the chatter as very similar to what might occur in a bar with your friends. If one of your buddies said, hey, I have some juicy news about MU's hoops program, we'll, we'd be all ears. We wouldn't censor him, we wouldn't run him out of the bar, we wouldn't ask him, please, please don't speculate. We'd listen eagerly (and follow up with two hours of speculation.) (Yes, the internet is bar chatter times 1000.)
There's definitely two groups that surround MU basketball. Those who know, and those who want to know. (Generally speaking, I'm not in the know, although I know a few folks who are.) Part of the mission of MUScoop is disintermediation, plain and simple. Finding nuggets of information and sharing them.
So it gives me great pause to censor anything but the egregious or false. It really does. Yes, there's a number of readers out there who want all negative items expunged, and they send me hate mail about how the existence of this site will send us all to hell.
In the end, as I said, we received a request through a 3rd party that MU wanted the thread removed. And we complied. That's the kind of guys we are, listening to personal appeals from our alma mater. -- (That being said, we will no longer accept requests through 3rd parties. If MU wants something removed, they can pick up the phone. We're in the book, and we're not ogres.)
Nearly every editorial decision we make has its share of detractors. We discuss things amongst the four of us (MU grads, all) and try to be reasonable, albeit imperfect.
We know the issues, of protecting the program, the 22 year old kids, etc.. And those conflict with the mission of sharing information. "Novakisgod" posted, a piece of news which, really, most of us wanted to know. (Those of you who don't want to know, well, get off the internet. It's full of stuff you don't want to know.)
Truth is, the world is ugly and beautiful at the same time. This piece of news about a player exists, and is in the hands of people who are probably sharing it right now, in the AMU or George Webb. So they shared it here, and more people know until it was removed. (Of course, Google knows all.) Unless you can pull a Jedi Mind Trick, erase people's knowledge, .. bad news cannot be wished away. It gets out, eventually. We live in a highly connected world with a short news cycle.
I can't stress this next paragraph enough:
We're not going to make everyone happy all of the time. So .. whoever is reading this right now, and wants to respond to this and debate the issue .. honestly, save your time. We will continue muddling our way, trying to get things mostly right.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 05, 2009, 03:10:03 PM
Look .. this is challenging for many reasons.
Yes, we're not affiliated with Marquette. Truth is, there's a forum that exists that is dedicated to Marquette Approved Information. MUScoop is decidedly, and purposely, less strict.
I've always thought of these forums and the chatter as very similar to what might occur in a bar with your friends. If one of your buddies said, hey, I have some juicy news about MU's hoops program, we'll, we'd be all ears. We wouldn't censor him, we wouldn't run him out of the bar, we wouldn't ask him, please, please don't speculate. We'd listen eagerly (and follow up with two hours of speculation.) (Yes, the internet is bar chatter times 1000.)
There's definitely two groups that surround MU basketball. Those who know, and those who want to know. (Generally speaking, I'm not in the know, although I know a few folks who are.) Part of the mission of MUScoop is disintermediation, plain and simple. Finding nuggets of information and sharing them.
So it gives me great pause to censor anything but the egregious or false. It really does. Yes, there's a number of readers out there who want all negative items expunged, and they send me hate mail about how the existence of this site will send us all to hell.
In the end, as I said, we received a request through a 3rd party that MU wanted the thread removed. And we complied. That's the kind of guys we are, listening to personal appeals from our alma mater. -- (That being said, we will no longer accept requests through 3rd parties. If MU wants something removed, they can pick up the phone. We're in the book, and we're not ogres.)
Nearly every editorial decision we make has its share of detractors. We discuss things amongst the four of us (MU grads, all) and try to be reasonable, albeit imperfect.
We know the issues, of protecting the program, the 22 year old kids, etc.. And those conflict with the mission of sharing information. "Novakisgod" posted, a piece of news which, really, most of us wanted to know. (Those of you who don't want to know, well, get off the internet. It's full of stuff you don't want to know.)
Truth is, the world is ugly and beautiful at the same time. This piece of news about a player exists, and is in the hands of people who are probably sharing it right now, in the AMU or George Webb. So they shared it here, and more people know until it was removed. (Of course, Google knows all.) Unless you can pull a Jedi Mind Trick, erase people's knowledge, .. bad news cannot be wished away. It gets out, eventually. We live in a highly connected world with a short news cycle.
I can't stress this next paragraph enough:
We're not going to make everyone happy all of the time. So .. whoever is reading this right now, and wants to respond to this and debate the issue .. honestly, save your time. We will continue muddling our way, trying to get things mostly right.
maybe we can make some kind of constitution with clear examples of what can or can not be posted ;)
I heard reinko just volunteered to write a constitution...
How about we just use common sense, coupled with the idea we all love Warrior Hoops (and some of us the University), and if someone gets out of line, the mods take down the post??
Constitution? In the immortal words of John Winger, "You think this guy's overdoing it a bit?"
In conclusion, reinko is banned.
"lol"
Quote from: avid1010 on June 05, 2009, 01:49:29 PM
If you care so much about the privacy of these 20 year old amatuer athletes why make the post in the first place? I understand you didn't speculate, but you brought light to this matter, and then reject the speculation caused by your post. I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for doing this?
It's a good point, and one that I wrestled with before sharing (which I alluded to in the initial post).
I thought the information was pertinent and, if presented properly, could be revealed without compromising any specific individual's privacy. If it came to pass, I figured the next words we'd hear on the subject would come from either the player, the university or both.
By posting, I had hoped to prompt discussion about how the program would/should respond to the potential freeing of another scholarship at this late date -- and some thoughtful responses to that question did result. I knew there would also be some speculation regarding the identity of the player, but I didn't really see the harm in that unless that speculation was being passed off as fact.
As I mentioned, I think there is a line that we all need to be careful about crossing without direct knowledge of facts. It's one thing to say an unnamed player might be leaving, but it's quite another (at least in my mind) to say that it is player X AND he is leaving for reason Y, especially when reason Y is disciplinary in nature --
unless, of course, the poster has firsthand knowledge of those details.
The problem is that the moderators have no way of knowing whether that specific (and potentially inflammatory) information is accurate, so they must err on the side of caution. Throughout my experience with this excellent board, I cannot remember a single instance where the powers that be censored or removed material -- no matter how embarrassing it might have been to school, team, coach or player -- that was based on facts it could independently confirm.
Anyway, that was my thought-process/motivation for posting in the first place. If you think the reasoning is hypocritcal or presents a double-standard, I understand.
[Crap lol. I just realized that I once again violated one of the basic rules of internet writing lol. I should probably quit now lol lol lol.]
I think you're reasoning is ridiculous, frankly. If you're actually a grad of the law school ( as another poster implied), I am disappointed at your reasoning that you could post that and not have people reply with all sorts of speculation, true or not, and then assume there would be no harm in that. I'm an attorney myself and I would have hoped that law school would have taught better reasoning. This board is indeed well-run compared to many others, but if you actually read this board I don't see how you could assume that others wouldn't run away with this topic. It happens all the time when subjects like this come up. And for those who want a constitution(!) get a grip. As stated before, this is a privately-run board. You have no say in its rules or lack thereof. It is well-run. The mods were right to take down the thread. No, we don't have the "right" to know everything about everyone.
Rather than me writing a constitution, maybe we could a gathering of sorts. Gathering isn't the right word. Convention maybe?
Yeah a convention, that's it.
An MUScoop Convention to Make a Constitution.
Quote from: Warriors4ever on June 05, 2009, 05:06:25 PM
I think you're reasoning is ridiculous, frankly. If you're actually a grad of the law school ( as another poster implied), I am disappointed at your reasoning that you could post that and not have people reply with all sorts of speculation, true or not, and then assume there would be no harm in that. I'm an attorney myself and I would have hoped that law school would have taught better reasoning. This board is indeed well-run compared to many others, but if you actually read this board I don't see how you could assume that others wouldn't run away with this topic. It happens all the time when subjects like this come up. And for those who want a constitution(!) get a grip. As stated before, this is a privately-run board. You have no say in its rules or lack thereof. It is well-run. The mods were right to take down the thread. No, we don't have the "right" to know everything about everyone.
As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. But I think calling my reasoning "ridiculous" is, well ... ridiculous. I'm a lawyer, not a journalist -- though I think it's the latter profession's ethics that apply here. What I posted was both newsworthy and based on eminently credible information. I didn't breach any confidences, nor did I provide any specific information about the player or circumstances whatsoever.
I think those standards are the better guide in situations like these, rather than fear over what some less ethical person downstream might do.
My problem with your reasoning is that you posted something you believe is credible, of course without giving a source; you presumably, from the tenor of your posts, know who the player is, and the reason why; you believe that reason would be shall we say, derogatory in nature, or you frankly would have posted it yourself; yet you either express surprise that someone else would go over the line, or believe that it's okay as long as someone else goes over that line and not you, even though you kicked the door down. And it's okay as long as that person doesn't state it as fact, but apparently just states their belief. I don't believe that is good reasoning, and I'm not talking about in a strictly legal sense, but maybe more a moral or common-sense one.
How 'bout a mission statement?
Quote from: Warriors4ever on June 05, 2009, 06:29:20 PM
My problem with your reasoning is that you posted something you believe is credible, of course without giving a source; you presumably, from the tenor of your posts, know who the player is, and the reason why; you believe that reason would be shall we say, derogatory in nature, or you frankly would have posted it yourself; yet you either express surprise that someone else would go over the line, or believe that it's okay as long as someone else goes over that line and not you, even though you kicked the door down. And it's okay as long as that person doesn't state it as fact, but apparently just states their belief. I don't believe that is good reasoning, and I'm not talking about in a strictly legal sense, but maybe more a moral or common-sense one.
Now that you've laid out your assumptions, I think I see where the disconnect is. I have information, but not perfect and complete information. The information comes from a third party who I believe to be highly reliable, but it is not something I know directly. And most importantly, that person asked that I not reveal specifics, but that I could speak of the situation "in general terms." Those are my primary constraints, in addition to a personal belief that the details would best be revealed either by the principals involved or by someone with more direct information than me.
To me, the tricky question isn't whether I should have posted what I posted, but whether the subsequent poster's post should have been allowed to stand. I agree with the mods that, at least for the time being, it needed to be removed. But what if the poster was able to provide the mods with something privately to substantiate that it was, in fact, true -- would you still object to that post being allowed to remain public? Or should we be mindful of the image and reputation of the program we support above all else?
I guess it comes down to the mission and purpose of a site like MUScoop: is it information exchange or marketing? Perhaps a bit of both. I certainly don't want anything I write or say to damage the program. But if the program has failings, if players run afoul of the law or have scholastic issues, as a season ticket holder and supporter, I think I have a right to know some of that stuff, don't you?
Just think if you were a Memphis fan right now ...
I am for self-censorship. If you see a post that you do not think should have been posted, then do not respond to it. If no one would have responded to the Aker post it would have quickly fallen down the line. Everytime you respond to a post you move the topic to the top of the board.
Can we lock this thread?
Posts are deleted out of respect for the requester - whether it's MU, a parent, a player, or anyone else.
It is not censorship.
There's no need for a constitution or anything like that. That puts the moderators in a bind if, for some reason, they would need to alter it or violate it due to some extenuating circumstance. (imagine the uproar if the moderators had to violate it? - not worth the trouble)
Be respectful of the players, recruits, and each other, and know that sometimes information will have to be removed.
That said... Thank you for running this site!
I'm sure the idea of a constitution was a joke. Thanks for all you do, mods.
The constitution thing was a joke. It was brought up here a few months ago and the mods dismissed it with a great explanation, as usual. It was a joke.
Quote from: reinko on June 05, 2009, 06:03:42 PM
Rather than me writing a constitution, maybe we could a gathering of sorts. Gathering isn't the right word. Convention maybe?
Yeah a convention, that's it.
An MUScoop Convention to Make a Constitution.
WOooooo! philadelphia road trip!!
Oh wait, maybe not, i guess it wouldn't be very original or Marquette-ish... should it be on a river in a canoe??
this is making everyone's brains hurt :(
you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill, this isn't even about MU bball anymore, send it to the superbar!!!! LOL!