Another Player Departure

[Skatastrophy]

Ha!  Fair point.  I just re-read that, and it's even worse than normal. 

I'm trying to be, perhaps, overly precise and careful in what I say and how I say it.  And apparently, that's a formula for ultra-dense and borderline unintelligible writing.  My apologies.

Just remember, you're on the internet.  If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!"  Here's a little sample:

While there may be a time in the future when further substantive comment is appropriate, I'm certain that now isn't that time lol!!  Speculation over the lives of 20-year old amateur student-athletes is unavoidable in a community of fans like this one, but I think we need to tread carefully with our appetite for specifics such as names and, particularly, circumstances lol!!  Not surprisingly then, I am 100% in support of the actions taken by the moderators in this episode lol!!

My hope remains that there will be no further news on the subject and that all of our returning players are in uniform, healthy and productive on/off the court next season lol!!

That said, as much as I wish it wasn't so, I stand behind the information that prompted me to make my initial post lol!!

Onwards  lol!! lol!! lol!!

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Same thing happened with Hazel leaving: any and all threads on the topic turned into those in the know constantly telling those not in the know to not speculate on things they don't know about. 

A major +1.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree with this 100%. A few years ago I posted on the old rivals board that I heard Dameon Mason talking on campus about how he couldn't take Crean anymore and wanted to transfer to Kentucky or LSU, yet the Mods took it down because apparently Mason's father objected.

There's any easy fix for this.

Start your own board, moderate it yourself, and you can feel free to talk about anything you want LOL.


EDIT: LOL

[MU B2002]

Just remember, you're on the internet.  If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!"  Here's a little sample:

lol

[thanooj]

Just remember, you're on the internet.  If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!"  Here's a little sample:

Hilarious lol!

[Mayor McCheese]

Just remember, you're on the internet.  If you'd like your writing to be a little less formal just run a find/replace on all periods and replace them with "lol!!"  Here's a little sample:

lol?    Ohhhhhh lol

[DJO's Pump Fake]

I just don't get it I guess.

Is MUSCOOP sponsored by Marquette?  Do you guys receive money from them to keep the site up and running?  If that is true then they have something to hold over the site's head.  If not, there is no reason to lay down everytime someone finds something out and asks you guys to take it down.

If it happened, it deserves the same amount of conversation as anything else dedicated to our school's program.


I agree with this 100%. A few years ago I posted on the old rivals board that I heard Dameon Mason talking on campus about how he couldn't take Crean anymore and wanted to transfer to Kentucky or LSU, yet the Mods took it down because apparently Mason's father objected.

Thank you for speaking up SCdem@MU

I am glad there is someone else out there that is thinking like me.

[bma725]

Thank you for speaking up SCdem@MU

I am glad there is someone else out there that is thinking like me.

Has the Vander Blue incident taught you guys nothing?  How about former MU recruit Terrance Boyd deciding not to go to Kentucky because of message board posts? 

Whether or not this or any other board is sponsored by Marquette is completely irrelevant.  This is a place where fans, parents, coaches, opponents and even players/recruits come to gauge the fan base.  Rumors/innuendo about players/recruits/coaches unless they can be 100% verified carry the possibility of negatively effecting the program.

As MU fans, you should be thanking the moderators for providing you with a place to talk about hoops and doing what they can to show the program in the best light rather than b*tching about your supposed lack of free speech.

[avid1010]

While there may be a time in the future when further substantive comment is appropriate, I'm certain that now isn't that time.  Speculation over the lives of 20-year old amateur student-athletes is unavoidable in a community of fans like this one, but I think we need to tread carefully with our appetite for specifics such as names and, particularly, circumstances.  Not surprisingly then, I am 100% in support of the actions taken by the moderators in this episode.

My hope remains that there will be no further news on the subject and that all of our returning players are in uniform, healthy and productive on/off the court next season. 

That said, as much as I wish it wasn't so, I stand behind the information that prompted me to make my initial post.

Onwards ...

If you care so much about the privacy of these 20 year old amatuer athletes why make the post in the first place?  I understand you didn't speculate, but you brought light to this matter, and then reject the speculation caused by your post.  I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for doing this? 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Thank you for speaking up SCdem@MU

I am glad there is someone else out there that is thinking like me.

You guys should get together and start your own blog.

[NavinRJohnson]

Hopefully I'm not crossing any line here, but without being specific, can I ask if anyone is surprised by the specific allegation involved (not necessarily the player)? I thought it was sort of well known.

[Lighthouse 84]

Hopefully I'm not crossing any line here, but without being specific, can I ask if anyone is surprised by the specific allegation involved (not necessarily the player)? I thought it was sort of well known.

I would think so as well.  But then again, I also would think ALL college athletes would know and expect to be randomly tested for such things.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Has the Vander Blue incident taught you guys nothing?  How about former MU recruit Terrance Boyd deciding not to go to Kentucky because of message board posts? 

Whether or not this or any other board is sponsored by Marquette is completely irrelevant.  This is a place where fans, parents, coaches, opponents and even players/recruits come to gauge the fan base.  Rumors/innuendo about players/recruits/coaches unless they can be 100% verified carry the possibility of negatively effecting the program.

As MU fans, you should be thanking the moderators for providing you with a place to talk about hoops and doing what they can to show the program in the best light rather than b*tching about your supposed lack of free speech.

The Vander Blue incident is completely different than the one we have here.  I was a big fan of who may or may not get into trouble or transfer or be dismissed from the school with which this message board is tied to.  The Vander Blue incident was about bashing a kid who might be coming to your school, and who is still a minor. 

The incident that might surface with someone in the program, hopefully will be discussed on here when the news hits.  I am still shocked that no one can whisper what happened with Hazel on here.  Everyone knows what happened but its supposed to be kept hush hush.  Too many people in today's world like to cover stuff up than face the truth.  I believe in facing the truth.  Apparently I am in the minority.

[bma725]

The Vander Blue incident is completely different than the one we have here.  I was a big fan of who may or may not get into trouble or transfer or be dismissed from the school with which this message board is tied to.  The Vander Blue incident was about bashing a kid who might be coming to your school, and who is still a minor. 

The incident that might surface with someone in the program, hopefully will be discussed on here when the news hits.  I am still shocked that no one can whisper what happened with Hazel on here.  Everyone knows what happened but its supposed to be kept hush hush.  Too many people in today's world like to cover stuff up than face the truth.  I believe in facing the truth.  Apparently I am in the minority.

The Vander Blue incident points out the effect message boards can have on the program.   A recruit chose not to keep a commitment because of message board comments.  Same thing happened at UK.  A recruit(not a minor) chose not to commit to a school because of message boards. 

Whether you believe it or not, recruits use these boards to gauge the fanbase, and if they see people bashing a current player it effects their decision on whether or not they want to go to school here.  Even premium boards aren't safe places for discussion anymore, parents and players/recruits pay for premium subscriptions just to make sure they aren't missing out on any opinions.

At the end of the day, the truth is often in opposition with what is best for the health of the program.

[wadesworld]

I have gone through a huge number of message boards for sports teams, including college and pro sports, and in my opinion none are as well run as MUScoop.  It is very organized and easy to follow but at the same time is not just a list of every single post made, like some are.  It is also free to use, which is a major plus.  I will support whatever the moderators feel is appropriate because I feel they do a better job of running a FREE sight than anything I've seen in other forums, including ones you have to pay just to see what others are posting on.

Some of the other forums I have looked at: northsidebaseball, brewersfan, a St. Louis Cardinals forum, and every single forum included in "Other Teams Boards"
Nothing is as well run as this and it's free, so moderators, please keep doing what you're doing.

The incident that might surface with someone in the program, hopefully will be discussed on here when the news hits.  I am still shocked that no one can whisper what happened with Hazel on here.  Everyone knows what happened but its supposed to be kept hush hush.  Too many people in today's world like to cover stuff up than face the truth.  I believe in facing the truth.  Apparently I am in the minority.

Also, just because we attempt to keep it from getting on message boards does not mean that, if the rumors are true, the player will not have to "face the truth."  It's one thing to "face the truth" and another thing to have the "truth" posted all over the internet for the rest of the world to see.  The difference between people on this forum "facing the truth" and a Marquette University basketball player "facing the truth" is that "facing the truth" for the basketball player, in your opinion, is letting the world know about it and dealing with it, whereas for those posting on this forum "facing the truth" is having your parents find out you made a mistake and that is about it.  If the rumors are true, then, as the title of this thread shows, that person will have to "face the truth" and depart from the team.  Is that not "facing the truth" enough?  If you got caught for (enter any offense here), would you like every single person you know to hear about it?  If you did get caught, would you go and tell everyone you know, so that you "faced the truth?"  The player will "face the truth" when they have to leave the team and explain it to somebody when attempting to get a job.  It doesn't have to be all over the internet for the world to see.

[mu_hilltopper]

Look .. this is challenging for many reasons.

Yes, we're not affiliated with Marquette.  Truth is, there's a forum that exists that is dedicated to Marquette Approved Information.  MUScoop is decidedly, and purposely, less strict.

I've always thought of these forums and the chatter as very similar to what might occur in a bar with your friends.  If one of your buddies said, hey, I have some juicy news about MU's hoops program, we'll, we'd be all ears.   We wouldn't censor him, we wouldn't run him out of the bar, we wouldn't ask him, please, please don't speculate.  We'd listen eagerly (and follow up with two hours of speculation.)  (Yes, the internet is bar chatter times 1000.)

There's definitely two groups that surround MU basketball.  Those who know, and those who want to know.   (Generally speaking, I'm not in the know, although I know a few folks who are.)   Part of the mission of MUScoop is disintermediation, plain and simple.   Finding nuggets of information and sharing them.

So it gives me great pause to censor anything but the egregious or false.  It really does.   Yes, there's a number of readers out there who want all negative items expunged, and they send me hate mail about how the existence of this site will send us all to hell.   

In the end, as I said, we received a request through a 3rd party that MU wanted the thread removed.  And we complied.  That's the kind of guys we are, listening to personal appeals from our alma mater.   -- (That being said, we will no longer accept requests through 3rd parties.  If MU wants something removed, they can pick up the phone.  We're in the book, and we're not ogres.)

Nearly every editorial decision we make has its share of detractors.  We discuss things amongst the four of us (MU grads, all) and try to be reasonable, albeit imperfect.

We know the issues, of protecting the program, the 22 year old kids, etc..  And those conflict with the mission of sharing information.  "Novakisgod" posted, a piece of news which, really, most of us wanted to know.  (Those of you who don't want to know, well, get off the internet.  It's full of stuff you don't want to know.)

Truth is, the world is ugly and beautiful at the same time.   This piece of news about a player exists, and is in the hands of people who are probably sharing it right now, in the AMU or George Webb.   So they shared it here, and more people know until it was removed. (Of course, Google knows all.)   Unless you can pull a Jedi Mind Trick, erase people's knowledge, .. bad news cannot be wished away.  It gets out, eventually.  We live in a highly connected world with a short news cycle.

I can't stress this next paragraph enough:

We're not going to make everyone happy all of the time.  So .. whoever is reading this right now, and wants to respond to this and debate the issue .. honestly, save your time.  We will continue muddling our way, trying to get things mostly right.

[reinko]

Look .. this is challenging for many reasons.

Yes, we're not affiliated with Marquette.  Truth is, there's a forum that exists that is dedicated to Marquette Approved Information.  MUScoop is decidedly, and purposely, less strict.

I've always thought of these forums and the chatter as very similar to what might occur in a bar with your friends.  If one of your buddies said, hey, I have some juicy news about MU's hoops program, we'll, we'd be all ears.   We wouldn't censor him, we wouldn't run him out of the bar, we wouldn't ask him, please, please don't speculate.  We'd listen eagerly (and follow up with two hours of speculation.)  (Yes, the internet is bar chatter times 1000.)

There's definitely two groups that surround MU basketball.  Those who know, and those who want to know.   (Generally speaking, I'm not in the know, although I know a few folks who are.)   Part of the mission of MUScoop is disintermediation, plain and simple.   Finding nuggets of information and sharing them.

So it gives me great pause to censor anything but the egregious or false.  It really does.   Yes, there's a number of readers out there who want all negative items expunged, and they send me hate mail about how the existence of this site will send us all to hell.   

In the end, as I said, we received a request through a 3rd party that MU wanted the thread removed.  And we complied.  That's the kind of guys we are, listening to personal appeals from our alma mater.   -- (That being said, we will no longer accept requests through 3rd parties.  If MU wants something removed, they can pick up the phone.  We're in the book, and we're not ogres.)

Nearly every editorial decision we make has its share of detractors.  We discuss things amongst the four of us (MU grads, all) and try to be reasonable, albeit imperfect.

We know the issues, of protecting the program, the 22 year old kids, etc..  And those conflict with the mission of sharing information.  "Novakisgod" posted, a piece of news which, really, most of us wanted to know.  (Those of you who don't want to know, well, get off the internet.  It's full of stuff you don't want to know.)

Truth is, the world is ugly and beautiful at the same time.   This piece of news about a player exists, and is in the hands of people who are probably sharing it right now, in the AMU or George Webb.   So they shared it here, and more people know until it was removed. (Of course, Google knows all.)   Unless you can pull a Jedi Mind Trick, erase people's knowledge, .. bad news cannot be wished away.  It gets out, eventually.  We live in a highly connected world with a short news cycle.

I can't stress this next paragraph enough:

We're not going to make everyone happy all of the time.  So .. whoever is reading this right now, and wants to respond to this and debate the issue .. honestly, save your time.  We will continue muddling our way, trying to get things mostly right.

maybe we can make some kind of constitution with clear examples of what can or can not be posted 

[BrewCity83]

I heard reinko just volunteered to write a constitution...

[Lighthouse 84]

How about we just use common sense, coupled with the idea we all love Warrior Hoops (and some of us the University), and if someone gets out of line, the mods take down the post??

Constitution?  In the immortal words of John Winger, "You think this guy's overdoing it a bit?"

[mu_hilltopper]

In conclusion, reinko is banned.

"lol"

[MULS1999]

If you care so much about the privacy of these 20 year old amatuer athletes why make the post in the first place?  I understand you didn't speculate, but you brought light to this matter, and then reject the speculation caused by your post.  I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for doing this? 

It's a good point, and one that I wrestled with before sharing (which I alluded to in the initial post).

I thought the information was pertinent and, if presented properly, could be revealed without compromising any specific individual's privacy.  If it came to pass, I figured the next words we'd hear on the subject would come from either the player, the university or both. 

By posting, I had hoped to prompt discussion about how the program would/should respond to the potential freeing of another scholarship at this late date -- and some thoughtful responses to that question did result.  I knew there would also be some speculation regarding the identity of the player, but I didn't really see the harm in that unless that speculation was being passed off as fact.

As I mentioned, I think there is a line that we all need to be careful about crossing without direct knowledge of facts.  It's one thing to say an unnamed player might be leaving, but it's quite another (at least in my mind) to say that it is player X AND he is leaving for reason Y, especially when reason Y is disciplinary in nature -- unless, of course, the poster has firsthand knowledge of those details. 

The problem is that the moderators have no way of knowing whether that specific (and potentially inflammatory) information is accurate, so they must err on the side of caution.  Throughout my experience with this excellent board, I cannot remember a single instance where the powers that be censored or removed material -- no matter how embarrassing it might have been to school, team, coach or player -- that was based on facts it could independently confirm. 

Anyway, that was my thought-process/motivation for posting in the first place.  If you think the reasoning is hypocritcal or presents a double-standard, I understand.

[Crap lol.  I just realized that I once again violated one of the basic rules of internet writing lol.  I should probably quit now lol lol lol.]

[Warriors4ever]

I think you're reasoning is ridiculous, frankly.  If you're actually a grad of the law school ( as another poster implied), I  am disappointed at your reasoning that you could post that and not have people reply with all sorts of speculation, true or not,  and then assume there would be no harm in that.  I'm an attorney myself and I would have hoped that law school would have taught better reasoning.  This board is indeed well-run compared to many others, but if you actually read this board I don't see how you could assume that others wouldn't run away with this topic.  It happens all the time when subjects like this come up.  And for those who want a constitution(!) get a grip.  As stated before, this is a privately-run board. You have no say in its rules or lack thereof. It is well-run.  The mods were right to take down the thread.  No, we don't have the "right" to know  everything about everyone.

[reinko]

Rather than me writing a constitution, maybe we could a gathering of sorts.  Gathering isn't the right word.  Convention maybe?

Yeah a convention, that's it.

An MUScoop Convention to Make a Constitution.

[MULS1999]

I think you're reasoning is ridiculous, frankly.  If you're actually a grad of the law school ( as another poster implied), I  am disappointed at your reasoning that you could post that and not have people reply with all sorts of speculation, true or not,  and then assume there would be no harm in that.  I'm an attorney myself and I would have hoped that law school would have taught better reasoning.  This board is indeed well-run compared to many others, but if you actually read this board I don't see how you could assume that others wouldn't run away with this topic.  It happens all the time when subjects like this come up.  And for those who want a constitution(!) get a grip.  As stated before, this is a privately-run board. You have no say in its rules or lack thereof. It is well-run.  The mods were right to take down the thread.  No, we don't have the "right" to know  everything about everyone.

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion.  But I think calling my reasoning "ridiculous" is, well ... ridiculous.  I'm a lawyer, not a journalist -- though I think it's the latter profession's ethics that apply here.  What I posted was both newsworthy and based on eminently credible information.  I didn't breach any confidences, nor did I provide any specific information about the player or circumstances whatsoever. 

I think those standards are the better guide in situations like these, rather than fear over what some less ethical person downstream might do.

[Warriors4ever]

My problem with your reasoning is that you posted something you believe is credible, of course without giving a source;  you presumably, from the tenor of your posts, know who the player is, and the reason why;  you believe that reason would be shall we say, derogatory in nature, or you frankly would have posted it yourself; yet you either express surprise that someone else would go over the line, or believe that it's okay as long as someone else goes over that line and not you, even though you kicked the door down.  And it's okay as long as that person doesn't state it as fact, but apparently just states their belief.   I don't believe that is good reasoning, and I'm not talking about in a strictly legal sense, but maybe more a moral or common-sense one.