MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: SCdem@MU on February 25, 2009, 09:59:42 PM
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We nearly pulled it off against what will now be the #1 team in the country tonight without one of our better players.
Without James we were still pretty awesome on offense. The challenge we have ahead is to figure out how we are going to play defense without James, how we are going to limit turnovers, and how we are going to give players some rest.
The reality is these challenges aren't that different from when James plays.
With some smart coaching and some players that have been riding the bench and hopefully waiting for a chance to prove themselves stepping up to the plate, we can still finish in the top 4 in the BE and get a decent seed in the NCAA.
This team has a lot of heart (or as I said giant balls during the chat). They went to war against Uconn in the second half and they never gave up.
And they aren't going to fold up and waive a white flag against Louisville, Pitt, and Syracuse, we shouldn't either.
I still believe.
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The challenge we have ahead is to figure out how we are going to play defense without James, how we are going to limit turnovers, and how we are going to give players some rest.
The reality is these challenges aren't that different from when James plays.
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My point is are these problems bigger without James?
Definitely, but it doesn't really create any new problems. Unlike when we lost Diener, we have semi-serviceable players to run the point who will allow McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward to do their thing.
IMO, the far, far, far worse thing would have been to have lost Hayward. Without Hayward we would have absolutely nobody that could reliably score and defend on the inside and lose another shooter.
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We'll need the bench to step up for certain. We'll also need a coach that throws guys in there left and right and trying to find the right combo. With three NBA players and scorers, we gotta have someone that can dish the rock and hit the open shot. That's it. We got Jerel and Matthews and Hayward to make the big shots. We need Acker or Cube or Jimmy to dish it out.
Acker played his giant balls off tonight I thought. Let's see how Buzz alters the lineup now.
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My point is are these problems bigger without James?
Definitely, but it doesn't really create any new problems. Unlike when we lost Diener, we have semi-serviceable players to run the point who will allow McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward to do their thing.
IMO, the far, far, far worse thing would have been to have lost Hayward. Without Hayward we would have absolutely nobody that could reliably score and defend on the inside and lose another shooter.
You are delusional if you think the loss of James doesnt create new problems.
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I agree that losing Hayward would be the death knell of this team.
As we all sit her and lick our wounds and think of the good times we had w/Dom and how none are left....if we look at the team in two days...we'll all realize the team still has a shot to do some damage.
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I'm sorry, but it is the end of the world if your hopes were for an elite 8/final 4 run.....there is NO way they make that run without James. Now if your hopes were the second round then yeah hope is still alive!
Really bummed tonight....awful.
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My point is are these problems bigger without James?
Definitely, but it doesn't really create any new problems. Unlike when we lost Diener, we have semi-serviceable players to run the point who will allow McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward to do their thing.
IMO, the far, far, far worse thing would have been to have lost Hayward. Without Hayward we would have absolutely nobody that could reliably score and defend on the inside and lose another shooter.
If you honestly think they aren't new problems without him then you haven't been paying attention. There is no one on this team that is as good a perimeter defender as James. Even McNeal the former Big East Defensive player of the year can't hold a candle to James' defense this season. Price got his points tonight with McNeal guarding him, and McNeal was guarding him because DJ was out. That was DJ's guy, and he would not have scored 34 with DJ there. Having Acker or Cubillan in there is a disaster defensively, and that's the important thing.
We can still score a lot of points without DJ. But defense wins games. Defense gets you long post season runs. Acker and Cubillan can't play defense like DJ.
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It is the end of the world as we know it...DJ was our only advantaged match-up vs. UL, Pitt and UL. Mo and the Tremendous Three will give it their all...but now defenses can isolate on Rel and Wes like tonight. We went from a Top 10 to a top 40. DJ is a freak. The BC was a trail of tears on the way out tonight. Tough row...we will give it our all...but there is no bench to fill in.
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I agree that losing Hayward would be the death knell of this team.
Hayward is also our zone breaker. Without Hayward teams would zone us to death.
We lost to the new #1 by 11 points and had several opportunities to win it. I still think this team can do plenty of damage, especially if we can win manage 2 out of our last 3.
The first two games of the NCAA will be drastically easier than our last three to close out the regular season.
We are still a sweet 16 team IMO. Which would still make this season special in my book.
Who knows, maybe some other teams in our bracket lose and we get favorable match ups...crazier things have happened.
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Our defense now drops another peg. I agree - this ends our run toward the Elite 8 or Final 4. Plus, as crazy as it sounds, DJ was decent grabbing boards due to his leaping ability. Very depressing...
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Our defense now drops another peg. I agree - this ends our run toward the Elite 8 or Final 4. Plus, as crazy as it sounds, DJ was decent grabbing boards due to his leaping ability. Very depressing...
Why is not making the Elite 8 or Final 4 the end of the world?
Apparently I missed the memo about how not making that is the end of the world.
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Why is not making the Elite 8 or Final 4 the end of the world?
Apparently I missed the memo about how not making that is the end of the world.
Opportunities to make the Elite 8 or Final 4 don't come along often. This team had the opportunity to be something special, to go down as one of the all time great MU teams despite the lack of size and inside scoring. Now they will always be a team of what might have been.
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Opportunities to make the Elite 8 or Final 4 don't come along often. This team had the opportunity to be something special, to go down as one of the all time great MU teams despite the lack of size and inside scoring. Now they will always be a team of what might have been.
Was that ever really that realistic to begin with? Even with James we would need a little luck to get to an Elite 8 or Final Four.
Now we just need a little more luck and some other players to step up. As long as we make the Sweet 16, crazy things can happen.
Keep the faith my friend. There is no way that McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward are giving up.
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That was DJ's guy, and he would not have scored 34 with DJ there. Having Acker or Cubillan in there is a disaster defensively, and that's the important thing.
Price put up 5 points and an assist in the first four minutes of the game--when James was guarding him.
Extend that pace to the full 37 minutes that Price played, and you're right he wouldn't have scored 34. He would have scored 45.
Price was having one of those nights from the time the game started. He scored just as easily on James as anyone else.
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It wasn't a memo, it's just part of expectations when trot out three senior guards who have been playing since they were freshman. They've come up short in the tourney in the past and this seemed to be the year that changed. I'm saying it's disappointing that it most likely is not going to happen.
No one ever said the team on the floor is going to quit and neither will my support for them.
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Keep the faith my friend. There is no way that McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward are giving up.
And....James won't let them give up. I'm with you SC - too much talent and experience left on this team for the MUScoop fans to be giving up on them.
We've got a collection of Marquette's 2500+ biggest fans here. We know more about the team and get more emotional about the games than *most* season ticket holders. An emotional loss no doubt, but hardly the "end" for this group of players.
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Price put up 5 points and an assist in the first four minutes of the game--when James was guarding him.
Extend that pace to the full 37 minutes that Price played, and you're right he wouldn't have scored 34. He would have scored 45.
Price was having one of those nights from the time the game started. He scored just as easily on James as anyone else.
Exactly. I actually kinda wonder if James was playing with a slight stress fracture the past few games. While he was tremendous on defense early in the season, he seemed to regress a bit recently, like he was a step or two slower.
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Price put up 5 points and an assist in the first four minutes of the game--when James was guarding him.
Another good point. At the time James left (16:09 in the 1st half), Marquette was losing 10-5. We ended up losing by 11.
We *will* miss James, and I wish we had him for the rest of the season. His defense had become his calling card. However, on offense most hated him taking a shot. We wanted him to be a dribble and pass PG.
Introduce Acker. He was 2 for 2 tonight with 4 assists and ZERO turnovers, 3 rebounds, and 1 steal tonight. Everything Marquette fans have been asking for in a PG ;)
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Price put up 5 points and an assist in the first four minutes of the game--when James was guarding him.
Extend that pace to the full 37 minutes that Price played, and you're right he wouldn't have scored 34. He would have scored 45.
Price was having one of those nights from the time the game started. He scored just as easily on James as anyone else.
MU84,
If this post was supposed to be in teal it's one of the best and funniest of the year. If not, it's certainly the dumbest.
[/quote]
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Introduce Acker. He was 2 for 2 tonight with 4 assists and ZERO turnovers, 3 rebounds, and 1 steal tonight. Everything Marquette fans have been asking for in a PG ;)
That stat can't be right. Acker was careless on the inbounds following a made shot by UCONN that led to a turnover and a bucket.
But yes. 1 turnover is pretty good. I think the bigger issue will be getting McNeal to play within himself (which is always an issue anyway).
During UCONN's big runs it was McNeal playing out of control/like he had to win the game for that really cost us.
Hopefully he learns he just needs to play his game and not make up for James not being on the court.
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certainly the dumbest.
First, and final warning. Everyone's a little emotional tonight. Any further personal insults will get you a 24 hour cool-down period from MUScoop.
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That stat can't be right.
I'm just going by MU's official box score - I'm sure they use these same stats to fill the record books. That's all I'm saying...
http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2008-2009/mugame28.html
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Acker did a great job coming in tonight - he really did - he played his heart out and played well.
But we will miss the Nic - his defense and passes. But we must go on, perservere and do everything we can to win - and I am sure Domminic, as he was tonight on crutches, will cheer them on and enrourage them.
Go Marqette.
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Price put up 5 points and an assist in the first four minutes of the game--when James was guarding him.
Extend that pace to the full 37 minutes that Price played, and you're right he wouldn't have scored 34. He would have scored 45.
Price was having one of those nights from the time the game started. He scored just as easily on James as anyone else.
MU84,
If this post was supposed to be in teal it's one of the best and funniest of the year. If not, it's certainly the dumbest.
I'm dead serious. James showed NOTHING against Price defensively when he was in the game for the first four minutes.
I take issue with those who suggest the only reason Price went off is because of Acker. Price was going off from the opening tip.
Here's your teal: James played masterful defense against Price last night in the first five minutes, holding him to just 5 points and one assist before the first media timeout.
Happy?
Now, time to back away from the ledge.
First, we have nothing to worry about on offense. MU scored more against UConn than all but two opponents this year--Gonzaga and VIllanova--and the Gonzaga game was in overtime. UConn held USF to 50. Syracuse to 49. Louisville to 51. Seton Hall to 54. Providence to 61. Now, put this in perspective: We put up 82.
Second, whatever defensive issues may or may not exist, MU isn't winning games on the defensive end of the court. The goal all season has been to speed up the game and force the other team into making errors, then using our speed and transition to capitalize on them. We didn't lock down Georgetown in a defensive contest--we sped the game up to force them to take bad shots and execute poorly on their own offense. I don't see that changing at all with Acker. We don't play a one-on-one game. We rely on a team strategy.
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So what you are saying is that it is inconceivable to think the James' defense would have tightened up?
simple extrapolation of statistics does not prove anything.
If you think James and Aacker are on par with each other defensively, you must be watching something different than the rest of us.
what a crock.
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But this was a home game with a crazy crowd and the team wanting to win badly I'm sure for James. Remember the Pitt game after McNeal was hurt? We won that game but losing him sure hurt us in the tournament.
To dismiss James offensively just because he hasn't been shooting the ball well doesn't acknowledge what he does for the rest of the team offensively with his assists and court vision.
And for this team who has been playing for the prize, I think not making the Final Four or Elite Eight is the end of the world.
Not sure when we will have a team this special in the near future.
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May not be the end of the world, but this is what I see:
Prior to last night's game Marquette was:
1. Arguably a top 5 team.
2. Had the opportunity to win the Big East Regular Season.
3. Arguably a 1-3 seed in the NCAA tourney.
4. Had a realistic chance for the Elite 8 or even a Final 4 run.
5. Was expected to finish with a double bye for the BEAST tourney.
James was the oil that made the machine run. He knew when and where to get the ball at all times. He was, simply amazing. Acker will try his best and is pretty good, but is nowhere near the class of James.
So, without James, and it pains me to say this, but realistically:
1. We will not win another game this season, maybe Syracuse as that is senior night and the team will be fired up to win that one for James.
2. We are arguably not a top 25 team, but probably fall in the range of 25-50 somewhere.
3. We will likely get a 4 or 5 seed and be one of those 4 or 5 seeds that is beaten every year by the 13 or 12 seeds.
In essence, our dream for a special season is over, and realistically MU basketball for the next two years is in rebuilding mode. And what really sucks is we have been seen as overrated all season and now when we get down to the opportunity to prove we belong in the top 5 our main guy goes down.
Unbelievable.
Unreal.
I cannot believe what James must feel. He was moved to tears most of the game last night watching from the sidelines. He wanted to run the "gauntlet" (our last five games) as much as anyone. He was ready to rock.
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+1 right on the head.
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simple extrapolation of statistics does not prove anything.
what a crock.
Agreed. How ridiculously stupid. James had 3 points in the first three minutes, therefore we can conclude he would have ended up with 40 and MU certainly would have won the game.
I'll ask again for those who want to minimize the impact the injury has on MU's defense...when is the last time in the last 4 seasons that a guard, any guard put up 35 points against MU?
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Nothing is the end of the world except the end of the world. This is the end, however, of our hopes for a Big East regular season title, a Big East tournament title and an extended run in the NCAA tournament. We can probably still do some nice things, but the things we thought we could do yesterday were a lot nicer.
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I think our seeding will be very low (or high)... maybe even 6 or 7... remember when McNeal went down, and all of the sudden we played Michigan St... well DJ has gone down earlier, we might end the season with a 5 game losing streak.
Winning one game in the tourney would be a nice accomplishment in my opinion now. When I found out James was out for the year, two words entered my mind... seasons over.
I love this team, and no doubt they will fight, but as I said earlier in the year, if one of these guys goes down, count us out.
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Character is one thing this team is not lacking. I believe that this team has the character to achieve greatness over the upcoming weeks. While very disappointed in the DJ injury I have not given up hope. Actually my real disappointment is that DJ will not be on the court when this team surprises people.
This years success has a been achieved because of a few talented players, but more importantly, it was achieved by a group of boys that became men before our very eyes.
I AM STILL A BELIEVER IN THESE GUYS!!!!
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I'm dead serious. James showed NOTHING against Price defensively when he was in the game for the first four minutes.
I take issue with those who suggest the only reason Price went off is because of Acker. Price was going off from the opening tip.
Here's your teal: James played masterful defense against Price last night in the first five minutes, holding him to just 5 points and one assist before the first media timeout.
Happy?
Now, time to back away from the ledge.
First, we have nothing to worry about on offense. MU scored more against UConn than all but two opponents this year--Gonzaga and VIllanova--and the Gonzaga game was in overtime. UConn held USF to 50. Syracuse to 49. Louisville to 51. Seton Hall to 54. Providence to 61. Now, put this in perspective: We put up 82.
Second, whatever defensive issues may or may not exist, MU isn't winning games on the defensive end of the court. The goal all season has been to speed up the game and force the other team into making errors, then using our speed and transition to capitalize on them. We didn't lock down Georgetown in a defensive contest--we sped the game up to force them to take bad shots and execute poorly on their own offense. I don't see that changing at all with Acker. We don't play a one-on-one game. We rely on a team strategy.
I almost don't know where to begin. The ludicrous extrapolation of statistics arguement has already been punctured by others so I'll leave that one alone.
You say that defensive issues now "may or may not exist". MU loses their defensive stopper, arguably the best on ball defender in our storied history, and we replace him with a 5'6", 140lb refugee from the Mid American conference and this MAYBE creates problems?
This team wins with offense AND a defense that pressures the perimeter. We do this because we have virtually NO interior D. With Acker in the game it is far easier for our opponents to get inside by either dribble penetration or simply throwing the ball over his head.
Teams like UConn can can absorb the loss of a guy like Dyson because their bench is loaded with Big East quality players. MU not so much. We were one of the smallest and thinnest teams in D1 BEFORE this injury. This is a HUGE setback for this team and any attempt to downplay it is plain wrong.
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Yes, we sustained a tough loss and lost DJ in the process. Yes, replacing him will be a challenge. Yes, I'd rather that we had won and that DJ was not injured.
However, we still have 3 excellent players, a bench that is getting stronger late in the season (18 points last night against UConn) and a ton of motivation. I suspect the guys will not disappoint and that their effort will be inspired.
I expect them to finish in the top 4 in the BE and garner a 3-4 NCAA seed. I love this team. They love and play for each other. They will continue to produce!
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Why is not making the Elite 8 or Final 4 the end of the world?
Apparently I missed the memo about how not making that is the end of the world.
Have you spent the last 4 years hoping for one great run out of this class? Were you decimated by jerel's injury two years ago? Can you still not believe that those prayer shots fell last year?
The point isn't that we won't make the 8 or 4, it's that now we'll never know what this team could have done. It's that now it isn't even remotely realistic to think about that run occurring. We are graduating arguably the greatest class in mu history and they will have no march success to show from it.
Sorry for finding that depressing, but you saying that all is good because we may win a game or two isn't something you want to tell me to my face.
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Scoring on a guy on two possessions doesn't ensure DJ wouldn't have locked him down or contained him later. The season's body of evidence suggests if anyone on our team was going to stop Price it was DJ.
If guys want to talk themselves into some fantasy that Mo Acker is a Big East player and we didn't just see in all likleihood our chance for an elite 8 end last night knock yourself out. Ra Ra and all that. But there's a reason Mo hasn't gotten pt this year and it's not because Buzz doesn't trust bench players. It's cause he's just not that good. Yes, he has a big heart, and all that feel good hugs and kisses, but bottom line he's not a BE player. And he will/did get taken advantage of when we're on defense.
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So, without James, and it pains me to say this, but realistically:
1. We will not win another game this season, maybe Syracuse as that is senior night and the team will be fired up to win that one for James.
2. We are arguably not a top 25 team, but probably fall in the range of 25-50 somewhere.
3. We will likely get a 4 or 5 seed and be one of those 4 or 5 seeds that is beaten every year by the 13 or 12 seeds.
You want to place a wager on that? There is no way that a team w/ 3 potential NBA players loses to a 13 or 12 seed in the NCAA.
It sucks that James' career at Marquette is over and I love what he represented and the emotion that he brought to the game. But lets face the facts, James was the 4th best player on the team (and with how Butler has been playing lately, maybe even the 5th) in terms of production.
Usually when your 4th best player goes down your season is not considered over.
Update: Ok, I admit that implying that Butler is better than James was a bit much.
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Have you spent the last 4 years hoping for one great run out of this class? Were you decimated by jerel's injury two years ago? Can you still not believe that those prayer shots fell last year?
The point isn't that we won't make the 8 or 4, it's that now we'll never know what this team could have done. It's that now it isn't even remotely realistic to think about that run occurring. We are graduating arguably the greatest class in mu history and they will have no march success to show from it.
Sorry for finding that depressing, but you saying that all is good because we may win a game or two isn't something you want to tell me to my face.
My philosophy is simple: As long as you get to the Sweet 16, crazy things can happen. This is still a Sweet 16 team, but for us to get any further than that now would probably require a lot more luck than it would have 2 days ago.
Who knows, maybe the 1-3 seeds in our bracket all lose early.
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No, no wager as I pray you are correct and I am an idiot.
But that is the way I see it.
[Please let me be wrong, please let me be wrong, please let me be wrong...]
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That post just showed your true basketball ignorance.
To diminish DJ to the 4th best player on the team is ludicrous. To not acknowledge what he did to enhance everyone elses game is beyond belief. To say Jimmy Butler based on one game may have surpassed James is insane
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You want to place a wager on that? There is no way that a team w/ 3 potential NBA players loses to a 13 or 12 seed in the NCAA.
It sucks that James' career at Marquette is over and I love what he represented and the emotion that he brought to the game. But lets face the facts, James was the 4th best player on the team (and with how Butler has been playing lately, maybe even the 5th) in terms of production.
Usually when your 4th best player goes down your season is not considered over.
I'm trying not to be rude here but DJ is what our third all time leading scorer and probably our best defender. So I'm not sure why you believe he's our 4th best player unless you just look at ppg as the be all end all.
And say he is the 4th best the drop from our top 4 to our 5th guy is astronomical. Butler has only showed of late he's an okay/solid BE guy. To say Butler has been better than DJ just makes me question your basketball perceptions.
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You want to place a wager on that? There is no way that a team w/ 3 potential NBA players loses to a 13 or 12 seed in the NCAA.
It sucks that James' career at Marquette is over and I love what he represented and the emotion that he brought to the game. But lets face the facts, James was the 4th best player on the team (and with how Butler has been playing lately, maybe even the 5th) in terms of production.
Usually when your 4th best player goes down your season is not considered over.
How old are you? right now i'm guessing 17 and this is your first year watching basketball.
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How old are you? right now i'm guessing 17 and this is your first year watching basketball.
Thanks, that contributes a lot to the discussion.
Some people here just can't seem to deal with the reality that James' freshman year was an aboration and not the norm.
Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt -- it does. But losing McNeal, Mathews, or Hayward (especially Hayward) would have been a far far far worse prospect than losing James.
It's probably too soon to say that Butler is better than James, but he certianly has improved over the last 4 games and he is getting better with every game.
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Thanks, that contributes a lot to the discussion.
Some people here just can't seem to deal with the reality that James' freshman year was an aboration and not the norm.
Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt -- it does. But losing McNeal, Mathews, or Hayward (especially Hayward) would have been a far far far worse prospect than losing James.
It's probably too soon to say that Butler is better than James, but he certianly has improved over the last 4 games and he is getting better with every game.
DJ plays the most important position on the court. Forget what he brings to the table for a second. You can't be a great team, or even a good team without a good point guard. You can't make a run in the BE tourney or the NCAA Tourney without a good point guard. We just lost one of the best, and replace him with no one.
The notion that Hayward is more important than James is ludicrous. Hayward's scoring can be replaced. His lack of defense can be replaced. His rebounding can be replaced. The other players can pick up the slack and do those things. They can't pick up the slack and replace DJ.
You can't replace the way DJ ran the team and controlled the game on the court. Not with Acker or anyone else on this roster.
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DJ plays the most important position on the court. Forget what he brings to the table for a second. You can't be a great team, or even a good team without a good point guard. You can't make a run in the BE tourney or the NCAA Tourney without a good point guard. We just lost one of the best, and replace him with no one.
I think the combination of Acker and Butler worked out pretty well:
Combined they had 18 pnts, 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers.
James has averaged 11.7 pnts, 3.6 boards, 2.3 steals, and 2 turnovers a game.
You are right in that no single player is going to be able step up and do what James did, but last night against the #2 team in the country these two stepped up pretty well.
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My main concern does the loss of James change the offense? I'd hate to think we go back to all set plays, but I don't think Acker is as good as James getting the team into it's offense.
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My main concern does the loss of James change the offense? I'd hate to think we go back to all set plays, but I don't think Acker is as good as James getting the team into it's offense.
Without James we scored 76 points against one of the better defensive teams in the BE, so I think we will be fine offensively.
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I think the combination of Acker and Butler worked out pretty well:
Combined they had 18 pnts, 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers.
James has averaged 11.7 pnts, 3.6 boards, 2.3 steals, and 2 turnovers a game.
You are right in that no single player is going to be able step up and do what James did, but last night against the #2 team in the country these two stepped up pretty well.
Butler just played the position he always does and had a great game. Acker replaced James pretty much straight up and had 6 points and 4 assists and whille the box score said 0 turnovers, they missed at least one . More importantly UConn basically didn't guard him and it made it tougher on everyone else, not to mention the fact that without James we couldn't guard Price who lit us up. Suffice to say the way we solved the missing DJ problem didn't give me the warm fuzzies (as my wife would say) last night.
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The notion that Hayward is more important than James is ludicrous. Hayward's scoring can be replaced. His lack of defense can be replaced. His rebounding can be replaced. The other players can pick up the slack and do those things. They can't pick up the slack and replace DJ.
Really? Name one other player on the team that can defend, score, and rebound in the paint like Hayward can.
Burke sucks so bad we had Hayward and Butler on Thabeet last night and Hayward actually did a pretty good job. Hayward was also crucial in limiting Goaty in the second half of the ND game.
Pound for pound and inch for inch, Hayward is the toughest 4/5 I've ever seen. It is incredible that he has been able to play at the level he has while playing out of position amongst beasts that have 50 more lbs and 6-8 inches on him in height.
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I think the combination of Acker and Butler worked out pretty well:
Combined they had 18 pnts, 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers.
James has averaged 11.7 pnts, 3.6 boards, 2.3 steals, and 2 turnovers a game.
You are right in that no single player is going to be able step up and do what James did, but last night against the #2 team in the country these two stepped up pretty well.
I don't believe you can't add up Butler and Acker's statistics and then compare them to DJ's.
- Butler averaged 22 minutes in the last 5 conference games, and played 26 minutes in this game.
- Acker averaged 7 minutes in last 5 conference games and played 33 in this game.
Butler only played 4 more minutes than his average, so combining his stats with Acker's to create "Maurimmy Ackutler" isn't really fair. Butler played about the same as he has before, which is to say that he played well, within himself, and made his free throws.
A.J. Price ate our lunch because DJ wasn't on him. We don't have a replacement for DJ's on the ball defense. The Syracuse came has turned from a game we would probably win 75-80% of the time into a much bigger question mark. Who is going to guard Johnny Flynn? If your answer is McNeal, that means that Acker guards Devendorf and gives up roughly 7 inches to him.
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Would expect Jerel, former BE defensive player of the year, to step into the primary defensive role in the future on the opposition's top backcourt threat.
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I think the combination of Acker and Butler worked out pretty well:
Combined they had 18 pnts, 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers.
James has averaged 11.7 pnts, 3.6 boards, 2.3 steals, and 2 turnovers a game.
You are right in that no single player is going to be able step up and do what James did, but last night against the #2 team in the country these two stepped up pretty well.
Not everything is measurable by stats. Watch the game again and watch how the offense looked with Acker running the point. The flow was completely different, the spacing was bad etc. He has no idea when to slow it down and when to speed it up. He has no idea when he should try to do something himself, nor does he have the ability. He doesn't know how to direct people in this offense.
MU was in it despite his play, not because of it.
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Butler just played the position he always does and had a great game. Acker replaced James pretty much straight up and had 6 points and 4 assists and whille the box score said 0 turnovers, they missed at least one . More importantly UConn basically didn't guard him and it made it tougher on everyone else, not to mention the fact that without James we couldn't guard Price who lit us up. Suffice to say the way we solved the missing DJ problem didn't give me the warm fuzzies (as my wife would say) last night.
yep, It was painful watching him pass up open looks. 3 of those 6 points came on a shot that clanked off that back of the rim and was one of the luckier bounces i've seen. Not to mention our D is a huge step back with acker in and james is one of the best rebounding pg's in the cournty. A big blow considering a team that doesn't have a productive player over 6'6. Funny how 17 year olds who just started watching basketball think they can look at point totals in a box score and figure out everything.
Was it his freshman year that he had a over a 3 ast to TO ratio? No, that was this year. What a douche.
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For all of DJ's shortcomings, this year's team is screwed without him. It's unlikely that anyone on the bench will impact an outcome since only Butler has player significant minutes. Don't expect advancement past the NCAA first round game.
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Without James we scored 76 points against one of the better defensive teams in the BE, so I think we will be fine offensively.
Chalk it up to;
1) a very emotional night, and
2) a packed Bradley Center.
Everyone played with LOTS of heart last night, but no way does MU score 82 points against UConn at UConn with Acker running the point.
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Really? Name one other player on the team that can defend, score, and rebound in the paint like Hayward can.
Burke sucks so bad we had Hayward and Butler on Thabeet last night and Hayward actually did a pretty good job. Hayward was also crucial in limiting Goaty in the second half of the ND game.
Pound for pound and inch for inch, Hayward is the toughest 4/5 I've ever seen. It is incredible that he has been able to play at the level he has while playing out of position amongst beasts that have 50 more lbs and 6-8 inches on him in height.
Burke did well against Marcus Landry earlier in the year and he's done well the past defensively. Matthews actually did well defending Gody as well.
My point is, Hayward plays an expendable position. If you have great guards, you can win games without having any inside presence, and you can do well in the NCAA Tournament without any inside presence. But you can't make up for a lack of a PG by having a good inside player.
DJ plays the most important position on the court in each and every game MU plays. That doesn't mean he's the best player, that doesn't mean he's the most skilled, or my favorite or anything like that. It means just what I said. The PG role is the most important in controlling the game, controlling the offense, controlling the defense, the attitude etc. No other position is like it in the game, and no other position is more crucial to a teams' success.
You can overcome a loss anywhere else, but unless you have an incredibly good back up PG, you won't be able to overcome a loss there.
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Watch the game again and watch how the offense looked with Acker running the point. The flow was completely different, the spacing was bad etc. He has no idea when to slow it down and when to speed it up.
One thing I will give Acker credit for is his ability to push the ball on the break. He does that quite well. He is very ineffective in the half court set both on offense and defense. Perhaps the 94 foot helter-skelter style favored by Louisville will give him a chance to excel.
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Matthews actually did well defending Gody as well.
That is correct they switched assignments in the 2nd half and it was matthews that shut him down and gave us the win at ND.
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My point is, Hayward plays an expendable position.
DJ plays the most important position on the court in each and every game MU plays.
It's silly to quibble over this one. They're both indespensible because we don't have the horses to back either one up. Forced to choose, I think Butler/Hazel would do better replacing Hayward than Acker/Cubillan will replacing James, so I agree more with bma, but we'd be pretty much screwed if ANY of our four main guys was injured.
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yep, It was painful watching him pass up open looks. 3 of those 6 points came on a shot that clanked off that back of the rim and was one of the luckier bounces i've seen. Not to mention our D is a huge step back with acker in and james is one of the best rebounding pg's in the cournty. A big blow considering a team that doesn't have a productive player over 6'6. Funny how 17 year olds who just started watching basketball think they can look at point totals in a box score and figure out everything.
Was it his freshman year that he had a over a 3 ast to TO ratio? No, that was this year. What a douche.
It has also been pretty painful to watch James take open shot after open shot and miss. Butler and Acker can also make free throws. Watching your starting PG completely miss the rim on fts on several occasions is pretty painful to watch too.
If we can figure out the defensive part and as long as Acker lets McNeal, Hayward, and Mathews do their thing while limiting turnovers and hiting an open shot here and there, I think we will do better than the doomsayers here think.
Lets give Acker and the rest of the team a chance before we declare the season over.
And btw I'm not 17
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Jesus. I'm not about to be all "let's support the team" here, but...my God. We just lost a tough battle to arguably the #1 team in the country. This wasn't a loss to DePaul or Houston here. This team can still do a lot of damage.
Am I as optimistic as with a healthy DJ? No. But, do we have the tools and heart and senior leadership to go far? Yes we do.
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So what you are saying is that it is inconceivable to think the James' defense would have tightened up?
simple extrapolation of statistics does not prove anything.
If you think James and Aacker are on par with each other defensively, you must be watching something different than the rest of us.
what a crock.
Oh, please. Get off your high horse.
Where did I say Acker was as good as James?
All I did was point out that James was incapable of stopping Price last night as well, to dispute the comment that the only reason Price went off was because Acker was guarding him.
Yes, I extrapolated the scoring. So what? Is that any worse than pretending that you know what would have happened?
Here's what you did: in order to fit your pre-conceived notion, you have invented the concept that James defense would have tightened up.
Here's what I did: looked at the actual defense the two player actually played, then made them comparable given the time differences.
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Not the end of the world, maybe the end of the season
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Here's what I did: looked at the actual defense the two player actually played, then made them comparable given the time differences.
And had to ignore a well documented history of excellent defense in order to do so. I'll ask yet again for anyone who wants to minimize the defensive impact, name the other gaurds, PG or otherwise who have put up 35 against MU the past 4 years (I don't know that someone hasn't come close, but nothing comes to mind.).
No different than saying James was on his way to a 40 point game last night before he got hurt.
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Although James was one of our best lock down defenders, I believe it was his leadership and charisma that made him so important to this team. Let's not forget that James will still be with the team, providing motivation and encouragement to every player on the court. Remember when Mo knocked down that three and James hopped off his seat and began applauding and motivating Mo. During the timeouts, DJ spent every second mentoring Mo and doing what he could to help out his teammates. Although he will be missed on the court, the players will have an added motivation to not only play for their school, but also their friend and teammate.
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And had to ignore a well documented history of excellent defense in order to do so. I'll ask yet again for anyone who wants to minimize the defensive impact, name the other gaurds, PG or otherwise who have put up 35 against MU the past 4 years (I don't know that someone hasn't come close, but nothing comes to mind.).
No different than saying James was on his way to a 40 point game last night before he got hurt.
That "well documented" history includes no games this year against the top point guards in the league--Fields, Price, Flynn.
The best PG that James DID face was Scottie Reyonds, who scored 29. And let's not forget about Dayton's Rob Lowrey who scored 23 off the bench.
We all want to pretend that every game was like James versus Deonte Vaughn. Sorry, that's not reality.
Sometimes an offensive player goes off on a career night, regardless of the defense. I certainly hope that you're not going to try and take something away from Steve Novak when he scored 41 against UConn in 2006.
So the question is why you would be unwilling to believe that Price could--on his own--
BTW, David Holston of Chicago State put up 33 on James earlier this season. Scottie Reynolds put up 29. Its not impossible to think that perhaps AJ Price might be able to do something similar--especially when he made it look effortless in the first five minutes.
In my opinion, based on the way he played the game, Price was having an outstanding game. To take something away from him by suggesting that he only had it because Acker was guarding him is a disservice to Price and a disservice to Acker.
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You conveniently ignore the fact that when MU played Villanova the first time, not a single one of Reynold's points came when James was guarding him.