Don't know if anybody saw/posted this. There had been discussions regarding Riley previously and his de-committment from Georgetown, but....wow.
Per Scouts, Riley a 6ft10, 220 lb. center has been offered by MU and will take an official visit on Saturday 1/10/09 (WVA game).
Wow! This could be big. What do we know about Riley i.e., how do the various services rate him?
See previous threads below:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=10941.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=10941.0)
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11095.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11095.0)
Seems things have changed since that last thread. Can you imagine a center with this sort of talent even considering us, let alone actually making an official visit.
It would be pretty sick. With the talent we already have coming in I think I would start to drool. Go Buzz!
What's with all these Irish kids at (or interested in) Marquette: McNeal, O'Tule (I refuse to use the little winking guy), McMorrow, Cadougan, Riley...
By the way, does anyone know if the announcers yesterday were pronouncing Otule's name properly? Is it really "o-TOO-lay"?
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 05, 2009, 12:31:19 PM
What's with all these Irish kids at (or interested in) Marquette: McNeal, O'Tule (I refuse to use the little winking guy), McMorrow, Cadougan, Riley...
By the way, does anyone know if the announcers yesterday were pronouncing Otule's name properly? Is it really "o-TOO-lay"?
Until he got into the game the first time (W. Carolina, I think) the BC announcer said "o-too-lay" and I did a double take, I guess that is the correct pronunciation.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on January 05, 2009, 12:33:20 PM
Until he got into the game the first time (W. Carolina, I think) the BC announcer said "o-too-lay" and I did a double take, I guess that is the correct pronunciation.
Trying to figure out what the other pronunciation would be... ?-(
You guys didn't really think it'd be pronounced "O'Toole", did you?
Pg 208 of media guide has the phonetic pronunciations and it says "oh-tool-ay"
Rivals said he was a five-star now down to a three-star. That's all I could find on him.
Quote from: Marquette Gyros on January 05, 2009, 12:48:10 PM
Trying to figure out what the other pronunciation would be... ?-(
You guys didn't really think it'd be pronounced "O'Toole", did you?
I didn't think there was the "lay" ending sound to it, I knew it wasn't spelled like it's Irish so I have that going for me...
Riley is #57 in the current RSCI.
http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/recruiting/rsci2008.htm
Everyone except for Rivals has him in the top 75 in the country.
He was higher rated but has dropped recently because of questions about his effort and committment.
That ranking is higher than Maymon's in BMA's thread attachment. He's a keeper, please.
Reel him in Buzz. 8-)
wow, great news he's gonna be here on saturday...thanks for the update.
According to contacts in Ann Arbor, UM is not too high on him due to the additional "stuff" you pick up by recruiting a player from AAU's "The Family" (his AAU team).
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on January 05, 2009, 02:13:57 PM
According to contacts in Ann Arbor, UM is not too high on him due to the additional "stuff" you pick up by recruiting a player from AAU's "The Family" (his AAU team).
If this is true, hopefully Lake Michigan serves as an adequate buffer.
I hope so. But, Riley also said that he was wanting to play away from home. Milwaukee's a great buffer from the D. 40 minute plane, five hour drive.
C'mon Mr. Riley, Milwaukee is waitin!
What, a legit bigman actually considering MU? Wait, Crean isn't employed here any longer.
I would love to get this guy. However, I never thought I would be saying this so soon but if he comes and say Cubes leaves (there's been rumors of that on another board) wouldn't we be a little light on guards next year? We would need to pull out all the stops to get a decent PG (at least for back up reasons) and a top-rated SG in 2010 to keep the balance.
Quote from: downtown85 on January 05, 2009, 02:43:25 PM
... stops to get a decent PG (at least for back up reasons)
Am I wrong or won't we still have Acker in backup capacity to Caudogan(sp)?
Quote from: MU_B2002 on January 05, 2009, 03:03:54 PM
Am I wrong or won't we still have Acker in backup capacity to Caudogan(sp)?
You are correct.
Riley is playing against my nephew's team in Ann Arbor on Friday so I'll give a first person account over the weekend.
Go Warriors. Crush the Scarlet Knights.
everything i have read about Riley states he is an all-world athlete and has great skills. the only issue is his commitment and work ethic as to why he has dropped apparently at the Lebron cmap he walked and pouted alot and dropped in the rankings big time. NBa draft express compares him to deandre jordan and says the only thing keeping him from a lottery pick is himself. i have no problem with signing a kid like this. he will either come in and work or he will leave and be quickly for gotten and replaced. if he washes out we dont have all our eggs in one basket as we still have otule and mcmorrow. the nice thing about Buzz is it appears he is not only committed to signing bigs so we can compete but it also appears he can get them on campus. ahh smell the fresh air.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 05, 2009, 02:34:22 PM
What, a legit bigman actually considering MU? Wait, Crean isn't employed here any longer.
Brian Butch
Nick Fazekas
Chas McFarland
Kirk Walters
Shaun Pruitt
Ahmad Nivins
Mac Koshwal
Crean had plenty of legit big men considering MU.
Landing them ... well, that's another story.
DaShonte Riley giant heads in the student section?
Quote from: MU_B2002 on January 05, 2009, 03:03:54 PM
Am I wrong or won't we still have Acker in backup capacity to Caudogan(sp)?
not only that but if need be, Buycks also can play point, which would give us a 6'6" 2 guard on the floor in Erik Williams/Lazar. With Buzz's offense it's better to have multiple guys with some size that can shoot or drive anyway which is one reason why Zar and Wesley are having such good years.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 05, 2009, 04:43:52 PM
DaShonte Riley giant heads in the student section?
Ha, legally I don't know if that is allowed. but if it is wouldnt be a bad idea
Quote from: Gwaki on January 05, 2009, 08:46:27 PM
Ha, legally I don't know if that is allowed. but if it is wouldnt be a bad idea
Don't see why it wouldn't be. As long as the University isn't printing/providing them, I would guess.
Quote from: Gwaki on January 05, 2009, 08:46:27 PM
Ha, legally I don't know if that is allowed. but if it is wouldnt be a bad idea
Not sure if it was legal or not, but I've seen it done before at other schools with big time recruits visiting. Students, get back early from break and fill up the Gold Rush. Gotta have a raucous crowd for DeShonte!
warrior forever...
i guess i could look this up, but where in ann arbor is the game and what time. will you have mu gear on? depending on how my two little ones are holding up i may try to swing over and catch the game.
Quote from: Gwaki on January 05, 2009, 08:46:27 PM
Ha, legally I don't know if that is allowed. but if it is wouldnt be a bad idea
I'm almost positive it'd be fine as long as it wasn't paid for or produced by MU.
If we could fashion laptops for Marcus Williams... this is doable. :P
The laptops were classic. I know he saw them.
For our players, I like how the students have signs/signals for the starters. I keep waiting for them to all put on goggles when OTule checks into the game.
I kind of think all the "signs" for the players is cheesy. I mean if we could think of something more creative for each player rather than holding up a letter or number it might be cooler, but the options are limited.
I don't know about the big heads, but I would think they're ok. The whole fan involvement thing that UK had to report a secondary violation for was because the fans actually contacted him through his Myspace page. As I interpret it, holding up a big head is just holding up a big head. Holding up a sign that says "Dashonte, we love you. Come to MU" would probably be where you cross the line.
As much as I would love a 5 star C at MU, I don't think we need a headcase on the team. I think Buzz has enough on his plate with the three amigos leaving and developing a young team.
MU students who had a Femme sign during his visit were put in the front row of the student section.
Old Article (12/17): http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/notebook?page=hallpass/081217
Riley Has A Different Outlook On The Recruiting Process
By Brendan Murphy
ESPN.com
DaShonte Riley had the requisite measurables to be the next big thing at Big Man U.
The 6-foot-11 senior center from Detroit Country Day is an eraser on the defensive end. And although his offensive game is a work in progress, with a few years of college seasoning, Riley could have All-American potential.
But weeks before he was to sign the national letter of intent to play for Georgetown University and coach John Thompson III and join a fraternity of power posts such as Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning, Riley got cold feet. The senior said he had hesitations because he made a rookie mistake.
"It wasn't that we didn't get along or anything," Riley said. "You know, [Thompson] is a cool guy and a good coach. In the end, I didn't think that we saw eye to eye on my goals and what they had planned for me. That's because of a lack of communication."
Now, one game into his senior season, Riley is back on the recruiting market. Although the scholarship offer from Georgetown still stands, Riley plans to go a different direction. He's looking at Virginia, Marquette, LSU, Cal, South Florida and Syracuse.
"I am just looking for the best situation," he said. "I want to have a good relationship with the coaches and the staff. I don't want my experience in college to be a passing experience. I want to go out and really enjoy myself and get better when I am at college."
To excel at the college level, Riley will need to add considerable bulk to his long frame.
He's come a long way from his sophomore year, when he tired easily and struggled to stay on the court for long stretches. His conditioning has improved steadily each year, and he spent time with a trainer this past summer. Country Day coach Kurt Kenner believes Riley is in the best shape of his life.
"When he first got here, he had a hard time sustaining any effort," Kenner said. "He was a tall, thin kid, and he would fatigue [quickly]. ... I've seen him mature, I think a lot of it has to do with his commitment to physical development."
When Riley has taken the court this season, he's had an agenda. Although he averaged 10.6 points, 12.5 rebounds and 8.6 blocks per a game as a junior, some people weren't all that impressed. He's heard Internet scuttlebutt and chants from opposing fans that he's overrated. As a senior, he's out to show his doubters that he has the talent to take over games and help Country Day to its eighth state title in 20 years.
"This is, I guess, my last chance in high school to prove that I am as good as I have been hyped up to be in past years," he said. "I think it's real important this year to go out and prove myself."
As part of his maturation as a player and a person, he said he won't let external criticism get in his head.
"Honestly, sometimes it does bother me," he said. "You just have to preserve and use it as motivation. I try not to read most of that stuff, but you just have to use it against them. It bothered me in past years, but I've learned just to forget about that stuff and just play basketball."
It's not that Riley doesn't have the skills. Kenner raves about Riley's passing ability and surprising range. But Riley is a bit timid with the ball. In fact, the coach said Riley's unselfish play at times poses a hindrance to his success.
"He possesses all the tools to be a 20- to 25-point scorer, but he's not assertive," Kenner said. "Part of it is his personality. He'd just as well see somebody else succeed as himself, so he'll pass."
Keener has coached many talented players, including Chris Weber and Shane Battier, through the years. He believes Riley's ability is among the best he's seen. In Kenner's eye, part of Riley's growth is about convincing him he's worth the hype.
"Sometimes I don't think he believes he's as good a player as those who watch him see," Kenner said. "DaShonte's a bit of an enigma. You can watch him on the summer circuit or in some of our games, and he'll be fantastic. And there will be other games where he's the invisible man at 7 feet tall almost."
Country Day's success depends on more than just Riley. In fact, the Yellow Jackets, who are ranked No. 22 in the ESPN RISE FAB 50, boast a frontcourt that also includes Division I prospects Jordan Dumars, who is the son of NBA standout Joe and is bound for South Florida, and Miami-bound forward Donnovan Kirk. The catalyst for the team's success will be point guard Ray McCallum. A junior who transferred in from Indiana, McCallum is garnering interest from programs such as Kansas, Texas and Oklahoma.
All the talent on the Yellow Jackets' roster takes some pressure off Riley. Any one of the team's starters is capable of stepping up on any given night.
"We've got a pretty good balanced team," Kenner said. "Because he's not a real assertive guy offensively, I am not sure that the other guys would see him as the top scoring option."
To leave a legacy at a program like Country Day, Riley knows that he must have a championship mentality every night. He believes that momentum should carry over to the next level.
"I gotta play hard night in and night out," he said. "I've had a lot of games where I regret that I didn't play harder in high school. I want to make sure I don't have any of that in college."
And to boot...
One of his top 5 movies...
3. "Hoop Dreams"
"This one relates to me as these ball players not only have to dedicate their time to improving their game, but also to religion and academics."
Let MU be blessed to have a skilled big man who can help lead us to the promised land!
Quote from: MU_B2002 on January 05, 2009, 03:03:54 PM
Am I wrong or won't we still have Acker in backup capacity to Caudogan(sp)?
Nope, Acker won't be here in 2010. He is a senior next year. Buycks will be, but he will be a senior in 2010. I think it is imperative to get a PG in 2010 and I have heard Buzz say as much (can't remember where though).
Quote from: downtown85 on January 06, 2009, 01:49:52 AM
Nope, Acker won't be here in 2010. He is a senior next year. Buycks will be, but he will be a senior in 2010. I think it is imperative to get a PG in 2010 and I have heard Buzz say as much (can't remember where though).
Well we definitely need a backup for 2010, but I think the comments were about next year, which we will have at least 2 PG in Cadougan and Acker and then a capable Buycks who can run the point when they're out. But wow getting Riley is almost too good to be true. I really hope it happens....can you say #1 draft class
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on January 06, 2009, 03:11:25 AM
can you say #1 draft class
Well, I think it would put us close to the top five, but it certainly wouldn't put us at #1. UNC has had that wrapped up for a while now. I think they have like 5 top 100 recruits of which several are in the top 20.
we definitely wouldn;t pass Nova either. 4 recruits all in the top 35.
it is all relative...put it this way we have had 4 top 100 recruits carry us for 4 years now. Novak and the 3 amigos 4 years ago and Lazar and the 3 amigos the last 3. add to them a roster of stumble bums and we have still done realtively well. this class would have 5 top 100 kids. Now unless Buzz goes out and signs Crean like class the next two year we will actually have a bench. ( when I refer to Crean like classes i am referring to christophersons, bells, burkes, amaroso, berkowitzs, hazels and the like....1 star type recruits. two more years of 3 and 4 star recruits and we should take a step up in the BE pecking order. He should also be able to really recruit the guard spots to ahigh degree of recruit becuase there is definitely PT available, the Bigs and f's not so much.
Hayward - stumblebums? a bit much aren't you?
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 06, 2009, 11:15:26 AM
Hayward - stumblebums? a bit much aren't you?
The last time I saw the word "stumblebum" on a Marquette message board it came from....
Murff. So Hayward is Murff and RedWebster is PRN?
It ALL makes sense now! :P
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 06, 2009, 10:44:50 AM
it is all relative...put it this way we have had 4 top 100 recruits carry us for 4 years now. Novak and the 3 amigos 4 years ago and Lazar and the 3 amigos the last 3. add to them a roster of stumble bums and we have still done realtively well. this class would have 5 top 100 kids. Now unless Buzz goes out and signs Crean like class the next two year we will actually have a bench. ( when I refer to Crean like classes i am referring to christophersons, bells, burkes, amaroso, berkowitzs, hazels and the like....1 star type recruits. two more years of 3 and 4 star recruits and we should take a step up in the BE pecking order. He should also be able to really recruit the guard spots to ahigh degree of recruit becuase there is definitely PT available, the Bigs and f's not so much.
Hey dude, sign me up for this.
I wish/hope/pray it's that easy.
I can think of a million things that can go wrong with that plan, but I like your optimism (and the peyote that you are smoking).
Pakuni, very valid point; Crean couldn't close a big man. I sat next to Nankivil and his parents at a game, got all excited that we had a shot, read a short time later that he was going to madison. A visit means only that he might think about us- the close is the key.
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 06, 2009, 11:15:26 AM
Hayward - stumblebums? a bit much aren't you?
which of these players that have been on our bench the last 3-4 years are not in the stumblebum category when it pertains to big east competiton and NCAA qualifying play....Blackledge, Lott, Christopherson, Kinsella, Hazel. I could go on with barely marginal players that we should not have recruited but have been barely servicaeable but that is the stumblebum list and I am sure there are others I cannot think of off hand.
Hey, I hope you are right, Haywire.
I'm just not so sure that it's as easy as you make it seem.
I mean, MU recruits kids, they don't select kids (like USC in football or Duke in basketball).
MU is going to have to take some chances on mid ranked guys in the hopes that they blow-up and become starters or at least become solid bench players. (my assumption is that MU will continue to draw some top talent, just not top 5 classes every year).
I hope MU only signs top 75 guys from here on out, but I'm just not sure that it's going to happen.
i am not saying Mu is only going to sign top 75 kids, heck Buzz just signed Roseboro. The issue with Tommy Naismith was he for whatever reason signed a abunch of 1 star kids. Blackledge is a perfect example, he was recruiting Lance stemler who had a poor at best career at Indiana and wiffed on him so he signed his teammate Blackledge who was a DIII player at best. Kinsella Rice transfer, who I was told verbatim by a scout that that one shocked everyone. the difference hopefully is if we miss on the 4 or 5 star kids is Buzz will fill the spot with a top 200 type kid and sure some of them and some of the top rated kids will not work out. But how often does the 1 star kid work out? Tommy Naismith fell in love with his press clipping on how he "made" DWade and felt he could do that with anybody. also his recruitng was so poor that is he did not get his top kid he was left scrambling.
Well Hayward, I think you have a point about some of them being less talented then others but the "stumblebum" tag is unnecessarily disrespectful and inflammatory.
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on January 06, 2009, 03:11:25 AM
Well we definitely need a backup for 2010, but I think the comments were about next year, which we will have at least 2 PG in Cadougan and Acker and then a capable Buycks who can run the point when they're out. But wow getting Riley is almost too good to be true. I really hope it happens....can you say #1 draft class
At the risk of another thread being killed by Hayward, I'm going to steer it back on track.
I tend to agree with JeronnetoMU. Perhaps it's just me, but I'm failing to realize why we would sign a backup (but good) PG over a fantastic big man. I don't want to say that "any guard can run the point," but we've certainly seen that there's been a black hole at the post forever, and I'd rather have one great PG and one great C with weak backups than two great PGs and crap under the hoop. Plus, this Dashonte guy seems like a nice kid with a good head in addition to the fact that he can play.
Hey, I'm all for it.
And I'm not even referencing Crean in any manner, but I'm just saying that if it was that easy, Deane (or KO) would still be MU's coach, DePaul would still be ranked in the top 5 and St. John's would be a national powerhouse.
A lot of schools want to be good. A lot of schools want to get good players. It doesn't always work out that way.
This isn't a fantasy basketball draft, and there are 1000 variables in the college game (recruiting, alumni, AD, arena, high school hoops in the area, media connections, national exposure, conference rep., x and o's coaching, player development coaching, off-season workout programs, players families, etc. etc etc.
I hope it works like you say (I'm not saying it can't or won't), I'm just saying that a lot of schools and coaches have intentions of recruiting talented players and having a great program, but there are only certain schools that seem to be able to pull it off.
well first of all oneill was a fantastic recruiter. in fact he was a much better recruiter than Crean. and it was infiitely harder for him to recruit given littel national tv, the old gym and the MCC conference. Deane simply chose not to recruit big time and lost his job for it. Crean had all the necessities to be a big big time recruiter ( see what oneill did not have) but for whatever reason did not recruit very well at all. Buzz so far has put it all together. Based on our lists for the next couple of years he does not look to be kicking his feet up either.
purely hypothetical but i would love to see oneil in his 1990 or so recruitng mode recruit to Mu in present day 2009. talk about a machine. remeber his Arizona teams in the late eighties early 90's they had an nba player at every spot. His recruiting was big time at Mu too even with little to sell but tradition.
As a younger grad, I know very little about Oneil, but if what your saying is true it helps me to understand why he keeps getting jobs. I had always wondered because the name didn't really mean anything to me, even during my time at MU (98-02), but maybe I just didn't know quite as much as I thought I did.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 06, 2009, 04:25:32 PM
well first of all oneill was a fantastic recruiter. in fact he was a much better recruiter than Crean. and it was infiitely harder for him to recruit given littel national tv, the old gym and the MCC conference. Deane simply chose not to recruit big time and lost his job for it. Crean had all the necessities to be a big big time recruiter ( see what oneill did not have) but for whatever reason did not recruit very well at all. Buzz so far has put it all together. Based on our lists for the next couple of years he does not look to be kicking his feet up either.
purely hypothetical but i would love to see oneil in his 1990 or so recruitng mode recruit to Mu in present day 2009. talk about a machine. remeber his Arizona teams in the late eighties early 90's they had an nba player at every spot. His recruiting was big time at Mu too even with little to sell but tradition.
Like I said, I hope you are right.
I know there are lots of schools out there with a lot of advantages (arena, conference, facilities, location, etc.) that can't seem to get it right (and they never had Crean to screw it up and keep recruiting sub-par players).
It takes a lot of things to go right for a program to truly be successful.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 06, 2009, 04:25:32 PMwell first of all oneill was a fantastic recruiter. in fact he was a much better recruiter than Crean. and it was infiitely harder for him to recruit given littel national tv, the old gym and the MCC conference. Deane simply chose not to recruit big time and lost his job for it. Crean had all the necessities to be a big big time recruiter ( see what oneill did not have) but for whatever reason did not recruit very well at all. Buzz so far has put it all together. Based on our lists for the next couple of years he does not look to be kicking his feet up either.
purely hypothetical but i would love to see oneil in his 1990 or so recruitng mode recruit to Mu in present day 2009. talk about a machine. remeber his Arizona teams in the late eighties early 90's they had an nba player at every spot. His recruiting was big time at Mu too even with little to sell but tradition.
Haha did you ever think that maybe Crean had something to do with getting those things that gave him an advantage in recruiting over our past coaches? It's not like the coaches before him tried really hard to get better practice facilities and get into a better conference and failed, and then Crean walked in and all of a sudden Marquette decided we would make a new practice facility and the Big East invited us in without reason. Crean worked hard and got Marquette those things.
Valiant effort at putting down Crean though. I dislike him because of how he left just as much as the next guy, but you're trying to take away the things he clearly did for this program.
Quote from: downtown85 on January 06, 2009, 01:49:52 AM
Nope, Acker won't be here in 2010. He is a senior next year. Buycks will be, but he will be a senior in 2010. I think it is imperative to get a PG in 2010 and I have heard Buzz say as much (can't remember where though).
The other day I posted that I ran into Buzz at Mayfair Mall. He said that he felt like he finally got the big man situation addressed as far as recruiting, but now he had to get some guards.
This might be a stupid question, but aren't we out of scholarships for '09? What happens if Riley really decides to come here?
we would definitely make room for him
I think we can get a better player than Riley if we have another scholarship open.
We hope someone on the team leaves, though it would not be good if that person was a guard since we may not have much depth there to begin with.
Otherwise we pick one of the incoming recruits, wait until a few days before the semester starts, tell him that we just noticed that he has an academic issue, refuse to admit him, and hope we didn't pick the guy who eventually turns into a stud that DraftExpress considers a legitimate NBA draft pick if he leaves after his junior year.
Sorry, I had to do it.
Quote from: HarryBalczak on January 06, 2009, 10:48:07 PM
I think we can get a better player than Riley if we have another scholarship open.
I highly doubt it
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on January 06, 2009, 11:03:17 PM
I highly doubt it
agreed, much less an athletic big man. I think if anyone would be disappointed with riley, then they need to look at some of our previous big men. Not saying hes a for sure stud, but just to have a very talented big man come here will not only help the team while hes here, but who knows, we are always looking for that one big man to work out so we can breakthrough in big man recruiting, maybe he could be it.
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on January 06, 2009, 11:03:17 PM
I highly doubt it
Sorry, but an MU friend went to see Riley and Country Day play tonight and I trust his evaluation. Pass.
I hope we can get riley...that would make me soo much more confident with a young MU squad. Then on top of that we will have an experience bench to help out, we may not be as bad as some people may think!
C-Riley
F-Hayward
F-Maymon
G/F- Williams
G- Cadougan
And having Riley would make the other teams prepare differently and with possible doubling, allow others to score.
Ohhhhh how I miss having a legit center since...since...Robert Jackson?
Quote from: HarryBalczak on January 06, 2009, 11:21:52 PM
Sorry, but an MU friend went to see Riley and Country Day play tonight and I trust his evaluation. Pass.
Sorry, but I think I trust professional scouts' and internet reports more than your friend. The fact that he averaged over 8 blocks last year is amazing even for a high school player. We need a big man, and finding an athletic defender with some touch inside is perfect. I'm not saying online rankings should determine everything about a player, because they can clearly be wrong. However, being a previous 5 star recruit and top 10 center on many sites has to mean something.
What I'm saying is that I don't think he's an upgrade from what we have next year with Otule and McMorrow at center and with Maymon and Roseboro coming in at the power forward. Riley had 4 points and something like 7 rebounds last night against a small team an he hasn't exactly burned up the prep ranks thi year. I don't think he's going to be a guy who will come in and start, so why try to sign him when you have will have a guard corp next year that will include 2 seniors, a junior and a freshman provided everyone returns. I think we need a scorer at the 2 spot who can learn under and play in tandem with Buycks more than we need another big guy.
Quote from: HarryBalczak on January 07, 2009, 06:01:23 AM
What I'm saying is that I don't think he's an upgrade from what we have next year with Otule and McMorrow at center and with Maymon and Roseboro coming in at the power forward. Riley had 4 points and something like 7 rebounds last night against a small team an he hasn't exactly burned up the prep ranks thi year. I don't think he's going to be a guy who will come in and start, so why try to sign him when you have will have a guard corp next year that will include 2 seniors, a junior and a freshman provided everyone returns. I think we need a scorer at the 2 spot who can learn under and play in tandem with Buycks more than we need another big guy.
wait..he's good enough for Georgetown's frontline but not MU's? ;D
I'd look for MU to get a big
and another guard.
He may not have been good enough for Georgetown's front line.
He says he de-committed because he did not see eye to eye with G'towns plans for him. That probably meant that he was not projected to start or get a lot of minutes next year. The fact that he de-comitted may have been code for, I don't want to redshirt or play a back up role for a couple of years.
Probably a back-up issue. Georgetown had freshman centers Greg Monroe and Henry Sims, both McD's AA.
Quote from: nyg on January 07, 2009, 07:05:08 AM
Probably a back-up issue. Georgetown had freshman centers Greg Monroe and Henry Sims, both McD's AA.
Monroe won't be there for long, 1 and done.
Probably, but Riley maybe didn't see it that way.
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on January 07, 2009, 03:48:10 AM
Sorry, but I think I trust professional scouts' and internet reports more than your friend. The fact that he averaged over 8 blocks last year is amazing even for a high school player. We need a big man, and finding an athletic defender with some touch inside is perfect. I'm not saying online rankings should determine everything about a player, because they can clearly be wrong. However, being a previous 5 star recruit and top 10 center on many sites has to mean something.
That's the most important word in your entire post...previous. The kids stock is dropping like a rock because he just doesn't give a crap. He was a 5 star top 20 player on rivals, now he's a 3 star player ranked outside the top 100. Every single site has mentioned that he lacks motivation, lacks interest, doesn't play to his potential, etc. This kid has major red flags no matter how good he is.
Throw in the fact that there's a whole lot of issues surrounding him and the AAU program he's involved with, and it's just not worth it.
Whether he is good enough for Georgetown or not, I suspect we may get a feel for the relative difference between their front line and ours on January 31st. O'Toule and McMorrow may be fine, and I am a guard guy all the way, but if you can get another 7-footer with some ability, you do it. Those guys don't grow on trees, as MU fans are all too aware.
Riley = Downing?
Quote from: bma725 on January 07, 2009, 07:39:46 AM
That's the most important word in your entire post...previous. The kids stock is dropping like a rock because he just doesn't give a crap. He was a 5 star top 20 player on rivals, now he's a 3 star player ranked outside the top 100. Every single site has mentioned that he lacks motivation, lacks interest, doesn't play to his potential, etc. This kid has major red flags no matter how good he is.
Throw in the fact that there's a whole lot of issues surrounding him and the AAU program he's involved with, and it's just not worth it.
Regarding motivation, I am sure at 17 or 18 years old the motivation will be different when he is a bit older. I know my motivation (regarding school work and whole lot of other things in life) was completely somewhere else as a freshman than as a senior. We can take him on with the clear warning that he needs to work on his work ethic. If he meets the expectations then keep him, if he is a lazy sob, throw him back. scholarship committments are for one year, from what i understand.
I do not know what you are referring to regarding his AAU team. please do tell.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't getting Riley mean we aren't getting Jamil Wilson in March?
Don't forget about that great rumor that he's waiting to find out who from MU is leaving and then will announce he's going to MU.
Or...did Jamil commit somewhere yet? I didn't think he did.
I thought the Jamil stuff was dead once and for all. I could certainly be wrong, but the last I remember was the "will he won't he" commit at the very end of the early signing period and then saying that MU was no longer on the list.
I can appreciate that there may be some issues with a guy like Riley, but truly talented bigs are hard to come by. Really hard to come by. These are the types of players who get multiple chances and often end up carrying you. I say go out and get him.
Quote from: downtown85 on January 07, 2009, 08:54:40 AM
Regarding motivation, I am sure at 17 or 18 years old the motivation will be different when he is a bit older. I know my motivation (regarding school work and whole lot of other things in life) was completely somewhere else as a freshman than as a senior. We can take him on with the clear warning that he needs to work on his work ethic. If he meets the expectations then keep him, if he is a lazy sob, throw him back. scholarship committments are for one year, from what i understand.
I do not know what you are referring to regarding his AAU team. please do tell.
If you have questions about a kid's motivation in high school, especially at a time when literally his entire future depends on his ability to motivate himself to his full potential, run away. It would be different if Riley had played with great agression and intensity before, but he never has at any level. That's not exact something you can learn. You are either born with it or your aren't. Wade had it, Diener had it...and they had it well before they got to MU. Guys like Dameon Mason, Carlton Christian, James Matthews etc didn't...and it showed the second they got on the court. No amount of coaching can give you something you didn't have to begin with.
As far as the AAU team, the main issue is who the team is connected to. Riley now plays for "The Family" a Nike team that is connected to World Wide Wes. Riley was recruited to play for that team after being part of Team Detroit, and Wes apparently did the recruiting in person. That's why Michigan got out of the Riley recruiting. They got sick of Wes's games and demands, and decided Riley wasn't worth the hassle. MU hasn't really been involved with one of Wes's players before, who knows how Buzz will handle it.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 06, 2009, 05:11:47 PM
Haha did you ever think that maybe Crean had something to do with getting those things that gave him an advantage in recruiting over our past coaches? It's not like the coaches before him tried really hard to get better practice facilities and get into a better conference and failed, and then Crean walked in and all of a sudden Marquette decided we would make a new practice facility and the Big East invited us in without reason. Crean worked hard and got Marquette those things.
Valiant effort at putting down Crean though. I dislike him because of how he left just as much as the next guy, but you're trying to take away the things he clearly did for this program.
wadesworld...you might be right...kudos to Crean for getting those things done. but getting them done and using them to your advantage are two different things. our last 4 recruiting classes were down right rotten!!. my point was oneil had absolutely nothing to recruit to except for tradition and the Bradley Center. recent success was poor and the facilities were rotten...remeber the place ...the biltmore?...the players were living in? my point was Oniel had no little to attract kids and brought in 4 top 100 kids his first year and followed those classes with some other reaaly strong ones bring ing in the like s of gates, miller, mccaskill, crawford, eford,lpeiper, smith and many more fine players look at where oneills players stand on all the all time lists ...he brought in alot of damn good players in a short period. in 5 years he brought in 3 pros. same number Crean brought in in a tenure almost twice as long. and he did not seem to have the all or nothing issues with signing players like Crean did we had years where good players like Crawfors and Peiper, Hutchins, Abraham etc had to bide there time on the bench as juniors and seniors played ahead of them. With Crean any good player was an instant starter becuase we had 5 stumblebums on the bench that people wondered why we even offered them a scolarship. like i said before oneill recruited creans socks off with infinitely poorer resources/situation. so far Buzz has recruited crean's socks off with equal.
Quote from: HarryBalczak on January 07, 2009, 06:01:23 AM
What I'm saying is that I don't think he's an upgrade from what we have next year with Otule and McMorrow at center and with Maymon and Roseboro coming in at the power forward....
let's face it... McMorrow is a complete unknown.. nary any basketball background- we hear he's athletic and know he's tall.
Roseboro? the next Grimm?? another unknown. under the radar until he played in NYC this summer...
Otule seems capable of improvement- again, not more than a 3 star recruit- but big, in the system currently, and gaining the trust of his current team mates.
Jeronne- we've seen him in HS and there's a lot to like... but he was also tabbed by some a bit of a headcase (more for his dad, perhaps?) or academic question mark- still tbd.
so, we'll have one guy with d1 experience next year, a former very tall hockey player who just took up hoops, a big white guy from the hotbed of hoops; the poconos, and a 6 8ish manchild who should? qualify academically---
hmmm
I take Riley in a nanosecond, as his upside at the 4/5 seems greater than what we have, and his 'baggage' is no heavier than what's on the roster next season.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 07, 2009, 09:31:32 AM
wadesworld...you might be right...kudos to Crean for getting those things done. but getting them done and using them to your advantage are two different things. our last 4 recruiting classes were down right rotten!!. my point was oneil had absolutely nothing to recruit to except for tradition and the Bradley Center. recent success was poor and the facilities were rotten...remeber the place ...the biltmore?...the players were living in? my point was Oniel had no little to attract kids and brought in 3 top 100 kids his first year and followed those classes with some other reaaly strong ones bring ing in the like s of gates, miller, mccaskill, crawford, eford,lpeiper, smith and many more fine players look at where oneills players stand on all the all time lists ...he brought in alot of damn good players in a short period. in 5 years he brought in 3 pros. same number Crean brought in in a tenure almost twice as long. and he did not seem to have the all or nothing issues with signing players like Crean did we had years where good players like Crawfors and Peiper, Hutchins, Abraham etc had to bide there time on the bench as juniors and seniors played ahead of them. With Crean any good player was an instant starter becuase we had 5 stumblebums on the bench that people wondered why we even offered them a scolarship. like i said before oneill recruited creans socks off with infinitely poorer resources/situation. so far Buzz has recruited crean's socks off with equal.
I really don't want to start a Crean debate... but I will say that if the argument is that Tom Crean couldn't recruit and had some crappy talent (using O'Neil as a baseline), then the next logical progression would be to say that Crean was a better x and o's coach because he won more big games than O'Neil did.
I don't really want to get into a debate, because obviously nobody is going to magically change their mind... but I thought I should point out the obvious.
Anyways, as far as high school players with baggage and whatnot, well, I think that is part of the 1000 variables I mentioned in this thread previously.
Buzz will have to weigh the risk/reward factor of taking a player like this. One thing is for sure though, no matter what happens, Buzz will get second-guessed... that's the nature of being a head coach.
Crean was a better x's and o's coach becuase he won more big games?
what??
Oneills teams were outstanding when he got the program rolling and i will be the first one to say oneill neve lost games by 20-30 points like Crean teams did becuase the defense was so much better.
Go back and look at the mids oneill signed on ayea rto year basis given his situation and it is down right amazing. to then bring x's and o's becuase Crean won "more big games" is a strange comment to say the least.
Quote from: bma725 on January 07, 2009, 09:20:40 AM
If you have questions about a kid's motivation in high school, especially at a time when literally his entire future depends on his ability to motivate himself to his full potential, run away. It would be different if Riley had played with great agression and intensity before, but he never has at any level. That's not exact something you can learn. You are either born with it or your aren't.
You are probably right. You want somebody to come in with killer instinct or a gym rat work ethic or both. It would be asking a lot for those attributes to develop miraculously overnight. The question is whether Buzz will risk bringing in someone with potential attitude problems with the hope he can overcome these issues. In this case, he seems like a "big man project with skills" because he lacks the motivation. I guess the question is whether Riley will ever be motivated by anything or not. Reminds me potentially of the Caracter situation at Loserville.
Thanks for the info on the AAU situation.
If we do get him, perhaps Buzz will be tough and say, no guaranteed starting spot, no guaranteed scholarship beyond one year, no entourage, keep up the academics, meet certain strength and conditioning goals, meet certain on the court goals, etc., etc. If he buys into it, the tough love approach may work. In Caracter's case, it didn't, but there are other cases where it seemed to have helped.
It will be interesting to see what happens because there is apparantly an scholly offer on the table to the kid.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 07, 2009, 10:04:50 AM
Crean was a better x's and o's coach becuase he won more big games?
what??
Oneills teams were outstanding when he got the program rolling and i will be the first one to say oneill neve lost games by 20-30 points like Crean teams did becuase the defense was so much better.
Go back and look at the mids oneill signed on ayea rto year basis given his situation and it is down right amazing. to then bring x's and o's becuase Crean won "more big games" is a strange comment to say the least.
I'm just using your own logic.
You claim that O'Neil got better players than Crean. (Your premise, correct?)
Crean won more games than O'Neil (the FF run, the CUSA regular season title, a lot of BEAST wins in a tough conference)
Therefore, Crean has to be a better coach. How else did he win in a tougher conference(s) with worse players?
I'm not saying I believe this... I'm just saying this is what your logic is indicating, right?
Or, please just tell me how you think Tom Crean won games... because this is what I've gathered 1. he couldn't recruit, 2. he wasn't a good x and o's coach
I would say that in the list of things I want a coach to be good at, those are numbers 1 and 2 and you seem to be claiming our former coach couldn't do either.
Was it magic? Luck? His tan?
*Also, please do not just jump to another thread, I do want to hear your logic*
So World Wide Wes of The Family and Kool Aid Perry are handlers? Who thinks up these names?
I'm from southeast Michigan and have watched this kid play. Has a great frame and good tools. Already talented, and has the potential to get much bigger, and much better.
That being said, I've seen him disappear quite a few times in games he has played in. It blows me away for a kid that is nearly 7 feet tall, and that has an unbelievable cast around him that is happy to give him the ball.
If he comes to MU, great. If not, oh well. We aren't missing the next Greg Oden here.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 07, 2009, 10:38:20 AM
So World Wide Wes of The Family and Kool Aid Perry are handlers? Who thinks up these names?
Wes is connected to the Family, not a part of it. The team is funded by Rip Hamilton, Wes is "friend" of Hamilton. By most accounts, Wes is the most powerful man in basketball, whether it's high school, college or the NBA. He's more than just a handler, he's a man that controls player movements, player endorsements, high school choices, college choices etc.
At some point, if you want to be one of the elite teams in basketball(regardless of level) you're going to run into Wes. Play the game, and you'll get the players(see Memphis). Don't and you can forget about a lot of high profile guys. It all comes down to whether you are willing to sell your soul for some wins.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on January 07, 2009, 09:01:53 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't getting Riley mean we aren't getting Jamil Wilson in March?
Don't forget about that great rumor that he's waiting to find out who from MU is leaving and then will announce he's going to MU.
Or...did Jamil commit somewhere yet? I didn't think he did.
You are killing Barbaro
Quote from: bma725 on January 07, 2009, 10:56:46 AM
Wes is connected to the Family, not a part of it. The team is funded by Rip Hamilton, Wes is "friend" of Hamilton. By most accounts, Wes is the most powerful man in basketball, whether it's high school, college or the NBA. He's more than just a handler, he's a man that controls player movements, player endorsements, high school choices, college choices etc.
At some point, if you want to be one of the elite teams in basketball(regardless of level) you're going to run into Wes. Play the game, and you'll get the players(see Memphis). Don't and you can forget about a lot of high profile guys. It all comes down to whether you are willing to sell your soul for some wins.
Not the most recent articles, but these get the point across.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/sports/basketball/05wesley.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&ref=sports
http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5735
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-216/William-Wesley--Tyreke-Evans--John-Calipari--and-Memphis.html
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 07, 2009, 10:29:47 AM
I'm just using your own logic.
You claim that O'Neil got better players than Crean. (Your premise, correct?)
Crean won more games than O'Neil (the FF run, the CUSA regular season title, a lot of BEAST wins in a tough conference)
Therefore, Crean has to be a better coach. How else did he win in a tougher conference(s) with worse players?
I'm not saying I believe this... I'm just saying this is what your logic is indicating, right?
Or, please just tell me how you think Tom Crean won games... because this is what I've gathered 1. he couldn't recruit, 2. he wasn't a good x and o's coach
I would say that in the list of things I want a coach to be good at, those are numbers 1 and 2 and you seem to be claiming our former coach couldn't do either.
Was it magic? Luck? His tan?
*Also, please do not just jump to another thread, I do want to hear your logic*
sorry but that is a really dumb connection. So you are then saying Oneill did not win big games??!! Oneil won alot of really big games. Incuding a conference title in the GMC conference which at the time was absolutely loaded and if I recall it was the 31 rated conference in the country at that time.
Mr Hayward, your grammatical errors are usually entertaining, but did you really mean the GMC was the 31st ranked conference at the time. That places it in front of whom, exactly?
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 07, 2009, 11:49:59 AM
sorry but that is a really dumb connection. So you are then saying Oneill did not win big games??!! Oneil won alot of really big games. Incuding a conference title in the GMC conference which at the time was absolutely loaded and if I recall it was the 31 rated conference in the country at that time.
OK, so you are saying Oneil was a better recruiter and better x and o's coach than Crean, right?
Then how the F did Tom Crean ever win a game? And if Oneil is so good, why didn't he lead MU to a final four? Also, the GMC was a good conference (we agree), but so was CUSA in 2003 when Crean's team won it.
Also, how many pre-season tournaments did Oneil win? How many were his teams even invited to? (and don't give me some line about hanging banners or some crap... those tournaments DO count for something, that's why the best schools play in them every year).
Listen, to be clear, I think Oneil is a hell of a coach and did a TON for MU. I'm not attempting to take anything away from him.
I'm just really, really struggling to follow your logic. You seem to think Oneil is better in every aspect, but Crean's numbers are arguably better. If Oneil is so much better, how is it even close?
O'Neill took over a disaster. Majerus and then particularly Dukiet took the program over a cliff. Things weren't great when Crean took over, but they weren't in near as bad shape when he took over because of O'Neill. I think O'Neill was a better recruiter than Crean, especially considering where he started and where he finished. His lesser recruits (guys like Abel Joseph, Richard Shaw, etc) were better than the end of the bench guys Crean recruited. O'Neill, I think, if he had stayed, had us in a position to be regular top 25 team year in and year out.
But he didn't stay. He bailed even quicker than Crean did and for a lesser job than Crean left for. Also, while I enjoyed us winning again, his teams played an awful, boring brand of half court, slug it out basketball. Think current Big 10. I think eventually that may have caught up to him in recruiting.
In the end, I have a hard time deciding which one was better overall. O'Neill saved us from the abyss and Crean raised our profile even further. They both did a great job for the university, but both abandoned us. Hard to give O'Neill extra credit just because Crean's jilting is fresher in our memory.
Why does every thread have to turn into an arguement of how terrible Crean was? Can't we just be thankful for what he did for the program, be pissed that he left and move on?
I'm not saying I would be disappointed if we landed Riley, but I would be concerned.
I love Buzz and I think he is going to be a great one for MU, but you have to ask how much he can bite off. Next year without Riley he will have only 3 seniors and 5 1st year D1 players on the roster. Everyone this year acquiesces to the Big 4 because they have been there done that....next year there will only be Hayward with any obvious leadership credentials. The clubhouse chemistry is going to be critical next year with a young team, I don't know that you want to introduce yet another potential chemistry issue in Riley. If we get Riley and Cubes leaves as a result(big if) then we will have 6 new players and only 2 seniors(Acker and Hayward). Seems like a lot for Buzz to handle in only his 2nd year as the head coach.
Quote from: Kramerica on January 07, 2009, 12:37:06 PM
Why does every thread have to turn into an arguement of how terrible Crean was? Can't we just be thankful for what he did for the program, be pissed that he left and move on?
+1
Because what does this have to do with Dashonte Riley, a Buzz Williams recruit? Past is the past, bigs are the future.
sorry guys did not try to turn the thread into a "how terrible Crean was thread". Unfortunaely what happens when someone says Oneil in their own opinion a better recruiter, and I stated why i thought that to be the case. Gets attacks by people that feel they need to defend the honor of one Tommy Naismith. to the point of staements like this ...."Then how the F did Tom Crean ever win a game? And if Oneil is so good, why didn't he lead MU to a final four? Also, the GMC was a good conference (we agree), but so was CUSA in 2003 when Crean's team won it."
Now where did I ever say tom Crean was such a terrible recruiter he would never win a agme? never siad that i said i felt Oneill was abetter recruiter.
If Oneil is so good why no final 4? ok now i am not sure what staement/question is more rediculous ...crean never winning agme or the list of great coaches that did not take a team to the final 4 in their first 5 years. simply ludicrous, i could counter that with "well then why hasnt Tommy Naismith coached in the NBA", but that would be equally adolescent.
Then saying Crean won a conference titel too, Ok great i have not forgotten that was at probably 15 games that year. And how should that effect my opinion that Oneill brought in more quality talent over a shorter time, had fewer duds, with vastly less to work with which is how i formulated my opinion that Oneill was a much better recruiter?
also, yes i did mean #1 conference not 31 #1 sans the caps button.
Let me throw this out there....cowering as a TC defender attacks...could I possibly throw out there an opinion that Buzz Williams is better at getting Big Men to Mu than The Great One. Now I realize Buzz has never won a conference title or been to a final 4 ...but i am beginning to form the opinion that Buzz will ge t more and better bigs that Tommy Naismith. Commence the attacks in defense of our former coach for my blasphemy
Quote from: mu03eng on January 07, 2009, 12:51:30 PM
I'm not saying I would be disappointed if we landed Riley, but I would be concerned.
I love Buzz and I think he is going to be a great one for MU, but you have to ask how much he can bite off. Next year without Riley he will have only 3 seniors and 5 1st year D1 players on the roster. Everyone this year acquiesces to the Big 4 because they have been there done that....next year there will only be Hayward with any obvious leadership credentials. The clubhouse chemistry is going to be critical next year with a young team, I don't know that you want to introduce yet another potential chemistry issue in Riley. If we get Riley and Cubes leaves as a result(big if) then we will have 6 new players and only 2 seniors(Acker and Hayward). Seems like a lot for Buzz to handle in only his 2nd year as the head coach.
welcome to college basketball...actaully more the norm than the exception anymore...and no different than waht Mu has faced in basically the first 8 years of Creams 9. Now before anyone goes cookoo for cocoa puffs it is not a knock on your jilted boyfriend, it is simply a reflection that in his first 8 years we had dramatic turnover and a very young inexperienced team, even the FFyear that was the concern and it got worse not gbetter over time until the 3 amigos have been the rock to steady things as of late. Again not a knock look at schools like Memphis or KAnsas this year look all around. we will be fine, young sure, we wont have this years luxury but it will put us on par with most schools thank god Buzz signed abig time talented group.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 07, 2009, 01:11:33 PM
sorry guys did not try to turn the thread into a "how terrible Crean was thread". Unfortunaely what happens when someone says Oneil in their own opinion a better recruiter, and I stated why i thought that to be the case. Gets attacks by people that feel they need to defend the honor of one Tommy Naismith. to the point of staements like this ...."Then how the F did Tom Crean ever win a game? And if Oneil is so good, why didn't he lead MU to a final four? Also, the GMC was a good conference (we agree), but so was CUSA in 2003 when Crean's team won it."
Now where did I ever say tom Crean was such a terrible recruiter he would never win a agme? never siad that i said i felt Oneill was abetter recruiter.
If Oneil is so good why no final 4? ok now i am not sure what staement/question is more rediculous ...crean never winning agme or the list of great coaches that did not take a team to the final 4 in their first 5 years. simply ludicrous, i could counter that with "well then why hasnt Tommy Naismith coached in the NBA", but that would be equally adolescent.
Then saying Crean won a conference titel too, Ok great i have not forgotten that was at probably 15 games that year. And how should that effect my opinion that Oneill brought in more quality talent over a shorter time, had fewer duds, with vastly less to work with which is how i formulated my opinion that Oneill was a much better recruiter?
also, yes i did mean #1 conference not 31 #1 sans the caps button.
Let me throw this out there....cowering as a TC defender attacks...could I possibly throw out there an opinion that Buzz Williams is better at getting Big Men to Mu than The Great One. Now I realize Buzz has never won a conference title or been to a final 4 ...but i am beginning to form the opinion that Buzz will ge t more and better bigs that Tommy Naismith. Commence the attacks in defense of our former coach for my blasphemy
I was simply trying to point out what I felt was flawed logic and a complete lack of credit given to Crean.
I think KO was great and did a great job. In fact, I'm not even going to argue who is better Crean or Oneil. It's not the point.
My point is that you can't say/imply that KO was a great recruiter and Crean had "stumblebums", when they both won a lot of games. If that is truly the implication, then Crean must be John Wooden in order to win so many games with his own crappy recruits.
That's it.
lease reread my posts Crean had many stumbums but also had some good recruits, my points all along said Oneill had good recruits under tougher circumstances and very few stumlebums. not sure why you cannot comprehend that maybe its emotions
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 07, 2009, 03:23:31 PM
lease reread my posts Crean had many stumbums but also had some good recruits, my points all along said Oneill had good recruits under tougher circumstances and very few stumlebums. not sure why you cannot comprehend that maybe its emotions
Tougher circumstances...maybe. Easier schedule, easier road to the NCAA tournament for KO then for Crean. Big East vs MCC...please. Even Great Midwest vs Big East. Not close.
On the other hand, tougher to get top kids to a mid major conference and that's what MU was in under KO.
So it really depends on how you're evaluating tougher circumstances. It's easier to get better players when you're in a better conference, but the competition is so much stiffer it doesn't always translate to wins and losses. Whereas at a midmajor you can have an easier path to success with players that may not necessarily all be 3 or 4 star players.
Was talking to a MU junkie last night and we came to the conclusion that KO seems better now than he did 10y ago. He is the type of guy that probably needs to move jobs every few years...but after the sting of KO being here/gone goes away you start to like him again.
To some MU that KO rubbed the wrong way they could not wait for him to leave. Now looking back with those same fans you can have a ton of laughs with KO stories. I for one am glad he made a stop in Milwaukee.
But, could he have gotten Wilson?
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 07, 2009, 03:58:44 PM
But, could he have gotten Wilson?
I really hope that this was intended to be teal.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 07, 2009, 03:23:31 PM
lease reread my posts Crean had many stumbums but also had some good recruits, my points all along said Oneill had good recruits under tougher circumstances and very few stumlebums. not sure why you cannot comprehend that maybe its emotions
I completely agree. I do have trouble comprehending your posts.
So, do Buzz, Tony or Aki have any sort of relationship with William Wesley?
Quote from: mwbauer7 on January 07, 2009, 05:30:53 PM
So, do Buzz, Tony or Aki have any sort of relationship with William Wesley?
More importantly, do any boosters with fat checkbooks have such a relationship? ;)
ATWiz---Buzz will be getting Wilson. I cannot wait until the annoucement is made. After what I heard last week I'd gladly bet you a steak dinner on Wilson.
What did you hear last week?
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on January 08, 2009, 03:40:10 PM
ATWiz---Buzz will be getting Wilson. I cannot wait until the annoucement is made. After what I heard last week I'd gladly bet you a steak dinner on Wilson.
I wish I could have taken that bet the other 5 times I've seen you post this :P
Just giving you crap... It seems he changes his mind every day so who knows...
Gymbar - if he does I'll be the first to give you props!
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on January 08, 2009, 03:40:10 PM
ATWiz---Buzz will be getting Wilson. I cannot wait until the annoucement is made. After what I heard last week I'd gladly bet you a steak dinner on Wilson.
I'd take that bet.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on January 08, 2009, 03:40:10 PMATWiz---Buzz will be getting Wilson. I cannot wait until the annoucement is made. After what I heard last week I'd gladly bet you a steak dinner on Wilson.
HAHAHA!
On the ESPN recruiting site it shows Michigan St. recruiting two players. They are Wilson and Riley and they at this time have one open scholarship. Of the two, I would rather have Riley. One they both have a reputation of not playing upto their talent level. Two we need a 6'11" player more than we need another 6'6" player. Three a player from Michigan could open up the Michigan recruiting area for MU. Georgetown who seems to get a lot of bigmen wanted Riley. He changed his mind about them. The article in which he was quoted at reopening his recruiting made in sound intelligent. How, many 17 year olds would have the strrength to back out on a committment that they were not comfortable with? My guess is that Buzz with like to go with two bigmen. roseborro is listed as a power forward and both riley and McMorrow are suspose to be very mobile and capable of running the floor.
Quote from: bilsu on January 08, 2009, 06:12:16 PM
On the ESPN recruiting site it shows Michigan St. recruiting two players. They are Wilson and Riley and they at this time have one open scholarship.
Michigan State got out of the Riley game awhile ago, ESPN is just very slow to update.
I thought it was Michgan that got out of the recruiting. Up until a couple of weeks ago the site was listing only Wilson as being recrutied by Michigan St. Riley was a recent addition to it.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on January 07, 2009, 03:44:23 PM
Was talking to a MU junkie last night and we came to the conclusion that KO seems better now than he did 10y ago. He is the type of guy that probably needs to move jobs every few years...but after the sting of KO being here/gone goes away you start to like him again.
To some MU that KO rubbed the wrong way they could not wait for him to leave. Now looking back with those same fans you can have a ton of laughs with KO stories. I for one am glad he made a stop in Milwaukee.
I'm trying to think of a place KO has been that he is held in high regard after leaving? MU, UT, NW, Toronto, UA. There are a lot of scrap piles. Always been a good X's and O's guy and did a terrific job for MU on the court and recruiting. The rest of his stuff, no thanks. Not good, definitely not classy and he's paid a severe price personally as a result, which unfortunately hurt a lot of other people not just him.
Quote from: bilsu on January 08, 2009, 06:41:47 PM
I thought it was Michgan that got out of the recruiting. Up until a couple of weeks ago the site was listing only Wilson as being recrutied by Michigan St. Riley was a recent addition to it.
Both of them. MSU didn't even really show interest after he decommitted from Georgetown. As of yesterday, he had a list of MU, Cal, Oregon, LSU, Syracuse and Virginia.
give it a freaking rest chicos you melodramatic fool. Crean is a freeaking Jackass yet he is the best thing to happen to Mu since AL in your mind. Yet Oniel is a jackass and you want to ponder who all he has hurt including himself. Was Oneil crass and overbearing sure. i loved his ability to be real though like buzz tells it like it is even if you dont like what he has to say. take that any day over a lying snake. 1000X the recruiter and coach that the snake is. Funny thing to me is read the IU boards they are severly questioning Creans coaching ability, yeah no kidding the guy sucked as a coach. Todd leary former Indiana player and radio talk show is lambasting him for his stand around offense that passes up good shots for bailout shot clock winding down 3's. That is why I laughed when IU signed that jackass. People in Indiana know the game and there is no more difficualt place to caoch at any level becuase everyone in Indiana thinks they are an expert on Basketball!! then this clown comes in and they are watching it ...they cant quite figure it out...the majority are blaming it on the talent and youth...but an increasing majority of them are asking what the hell is this guy doing. I knew this would happen and absolutely love it. A state that grew up watching Bobby run motion and Keady teams play and most schools in Indiana run offenses like IU motion derived from Hank Iba and Bob Knight. Similar to so many schools in Wisky running the swing. However much more ravenous and passion and then they see this dipshit stand and have his point guard wear a spot in the floor from the standing dribble as on guy is moving and the 1 second left jacked up 3. seriosly question his basketball intellect...welcome to my world circa 1999.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 07, 2009, 01:18:26 PM
welcome to college basketball...actaully more the norm than the exception anymore...and no different than waht Mu has faced in basically the first 8 years of Creams 9. Now before anyone goes cookoo for cocoa puffs it is not a knock on your jilted boyfriend,
What would you call posts by someone that says "my wife and I honestly can't find anything wrong with him....he's an upgrade at every level...." It comes across as someone infatuated with someone else, so your comments are a bit funny. It sounds like something you would read in a note in 8th grade.
The only reason some of us here "defend" Crean, as you like to say, is to at least keep the facts with the facts. Yup, he's a jerk at times, did some unclassy things (also did some very classy things), some of you hated him with every bone in your body (Cura Personalis), but that doesn't change the successess he brought to the school and program. So what you call "defense" of him, I'd call simply extracting the silly and petty name calling from the realities of where we were when he took over and where we were when he left.
Oneil was an arrogant ass. I know to many people that have met him personaly and they hated him. He never trie to promote MU as a program. He was just interest in trying to get as many W's as possible and moving on. He never had any long term planes for MU. He aslo never embraced the media, he nevr tried to promote the program to the alumni and students. He actd like students and alumni were a necessary evil. Sve it KO, MU doesn't/didn't need you. The progrma would hve been fine withot the lieks of you. You can take you slik backd hair and go back to AZ! Aslo, you KNOW he just recruited Gates to be able to promote himself in that movie. Gates wasn't nearly good enogh to play at MU, but oneil took him anyways. Oneil was always angleing for the netx job. I don't know why he's remebered so fondly by some of you sheap arond here. If there was a web borde back when KO left, there would have been 1000 posts blasting him for it, adn he deserved to be blasted.Now, years later, we have people saying things like "He was a straight shooter"... what a bunch of baloney.
*Cue the Oneil lovrs that are ready to tell me how Oneil was great and how much he did for MU.
MU made oneil. He was good for a short time, but I new all alogn that he was bad for the scool. You guys ned to get a cleu.
(who do I sound like?)
(who do I sound like?)
Longtime reader, first time poster. 2002mualum, I applaud you. Well done, sir.
I seem to remember some discussion on one Dashonte Riley. Am I in the right thread? Can we please create a designated KO/Crean dumping thread? It would save me an incredible amount of time.
Can we please stop the Crean/ Oneil debate.. I want to read info on Riley in this thread.
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2009, 07:56:14 PM
Oneil was an arrogant ass. I know to many people that have met him personaly and they hated him. He never trie to promote MU as a program. He was just interest in trying to get as many W's as possible and moving on. He never had any long term planes for MU. He aslo never embraced the media, he nevr tried to promote the program to the alumni and students. He actd like students and alumni were a necessary evil. Sve it KO, MU doesn't/didn't need you. The progrma would hve been fine withot the lieks of you. You can take you slik backd hair and go back to AZ! Aslo, you KNOW he just recruited Gates to be able to promote himself in that movie. Gates wasn't nearly good enogh to play at MU, but oneil took him anyways. Oneil was always angleing for the netx job. I don't know why he's remebered so fondly by some of you sheap arond here. If there was a web borde back when KO left, there would have been 1000 posts blasting him for it, adn he deserved to be blasted.Now, years later, we have people saying things like "He was a straight shooter"... what a bunch of baloney.
*Cue the Oneil lovrs that are ready to tell me how Oneil was great and how much he did for MU.
MU made oneil. He was good for a short time, but I new all alogn that he was bad for the scool. You guys ned to get a cleu.
(who do I sound like?)
Close your eyes and substitute Crean for O'Neil and you've just about got it nailed.
Quote from: RichardShaw on January 08, 2009, 07:59:47 PM
(who do I sound like?)
Longtime reader, first time poster. 2002mualum, I applaud you. Well done, sir.
I seem to remember some discussion on one Dashonte Riley. Am I in the right thread? Can we please create a designated KO/Crean dumping thread? It would save me an incredible amount of time.
Thank you. I was going to have to lock the thread if nobody mentioned Riley on page 6.
Lets see - his team is ranked #14 in the country by Maxpreps (http://www.maxpreps.com/FanPages/content/Article.mxp/articleid-ef60d454-b271-49fe-b0d9-d4e031ae950b)
Quote14. Detroit Country Day (Beverly Hills, Mich.) 6-0 – The Yellowjackets nipped young, talented De La Salle (Chicago, Ill.), 75-72, in overtime as 6-11 senior DaShonte Riley amassed 11 points, 14 rebounds and six blocks. Junior guard Ray McCallum, a transfer from Bloomington (Ind.), scored 27 points in an 82-56 victory over Grand Ledge.
And Dave Telep has a premium article on the Scout network (http://louisianastate.scout.com/a.z?s=107&p=2&c=828093&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2flouisianastate.scout.com%2fa.z%3fs%3d107%26p%3d2%26c%3d828093) about him visiting MU this weekend.
That's all the news I have