NBA Thread 2020-21

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sultan, FFS, it has been stated by MANY here (you, too?) that Marquette instituted a new policy (post Jae) to henceforth not accept as scholarship athletes any Jucos (maybe transfers, too?) who could not graduate within the time of their eligibility. This is (to my knowledge) not an NCAA rule but rather a Marquette policy. If these aren’t the facts by all means correct them - I’d love for it not to be true. If it is true:

1. Your statement that MU by policy is not denying admittance to any athletes is flat out false.
2. There is zero hyperbole, strawmen or Chicoian logic in my argument, only facts - at least as they’ve been reported here.
3. Nobody is dying on this hill but you.

You are the one who keeps bringing it up.  Repeatedly. Then engaging it bad faith tactics. Repeatedly. That is the definition of dying on a hill Chicos. 

But I guess you forget things easily these days.

[cheebs09]

Sultan, FFS, it has been stated by MANY here (you, too?) that Marquette instituted a new policy (post Jae) to henceforth not accept as scholarship athletes any Jucos (maybe transfers, too?) who could not graduate within the time of their eligibility. This is (to my knowledge) not an NCAA rule but rather a Marquette policy. If these aren’t the facts by all means correct them - I’d love for it not to be true. If it is true:

1. Your statement that MU by policy is not denying admittance to any athletes is flat out false.
2. There is zero hyperbole, strawmen or Chicoian logic in my argument, only facts - at least as they’ve been reported here.
3. Nobody is dying on this hill but you.

My understanding is it is due NCAA rules in a way. By not being on track to graduate, it negatively impacts the APR.

We weren’t in a critical state, but our APR wasn’t trending the greatest. Our score for 2013 was 941 out of 1000. Below 930 over a certain period meant being ineligible for the NCAA tourney. Which I believe around this time UCONN and UWM were declared ineligible.

I would be surprised if MU isn’t in the majority with a policy like this. They can still accept JUCOs, but it is difficult due to the lack of a Physical Ed major.

https://painttouches.com/2013/06/11/apr-marquette-big-east/

[Lennys Tap]

You are the one who keeps bringing it up.  Repeatedly. Then engaging it bad faith tactics. Repeatedly. That is the definition of dying on a hill Chicos. 

But I guess you forget things easily these days.

So you cite no inaccuracies, no hyperbole, no strawmen on my part - you just throw out the words. And your misstatements about MU’s policy re admissions of athletes? They go undefended because you know they’re untrue and are indefensible. Then toss out vague BS (bad faith “tactics”? LOL - WTF is that mumbo jumbo supposed to mean?) and your uniquely ridiculous definition of “hill dying”. Then top it off with a pathetic stab at humor and maybe a bit of ageism.

Take a break, man. You be happier and less angry. Scoop isn’t supposed to be a full time job.

[JWags85]

Embiid was a hot MVP candidate.  Currently working on a scoreless second half as the Sixers blow a big lead by the entire team vanishing on offense

[Lennys Tap]

My understanding is it is due NCAA rules in a way. By not being on track to graduate, it negatively impacts the APR.

We weren’t in a critical state, but our APR wasn’t trending the greatest. Our score for 2013 was 941 out of 1000. Below 930 over a certain period meant being ineligible for the NCAA tourney. Which I believe around this time UCONN and UWM were declared ineligible.

I would be surprised if MU isn’t in the majority with a policy like this. They can still accept JUCOs, but it is difficult due to the lack of a Physical Ed major.

https://painttouches.com/2013/06/11/apr-marquette-big-east/

Cheebs

Thanks for the reasonable response.

Marquette’s APR scores have been as follows:

2004-05  918
2005-06  927
2006-07  954
2007-08  970
2008-09  975
2009-10  980
2010-11  970
2011-12  960
2012-13  959
2013-14  949
2014-15  962
2015-16  966
2016-17  950
2017-18  955
2018-19  968

Those are the last figures I can find. Other than 2004-05 and 2005-06 we’ve never been under 930. Or particularly close to it. Jae’s situation may have given us a ding (don’t know how much, I confess I don’t know the calculations) but based on the numbers I surmise it wasn’t all that big a deal.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Cheebs

Thanks for the reasonable response.

Marquette’s APR scores have been as follows:

2004-05  918
2005-06  927
2006-07  954
2007-08  970
2008-09  975
2009-10  980
2010-11  970
2011-12  960
2012-13  959
2013-14  949
2014-15  962
2015-16  966
2016-17  950
2017-18  955
2018-19  968

Those are the last figures I can find. Other than 2004-05 and 2005-06 we’ve never been under 930. Or particularly close to it. Jae’s situation may have given us a ding (don’t know how much, I confess I don’t know the calculations) but based on the numbers I surmise it wasn’t all that big a deal.

I believe the numbers you are quoting are 4-year rolling averages. So if our 4-year average declined from 980 to 949, it likely means there were a few years where we were close to or below 930.

Student athletes need to qualify with the NCAA and with the school they attend. It's possible to qualify with one but not the other. It doesn't mean the school is run by snobs, it just means that different academic institutions have different requirements for admission (and NCAA rules state that schools must hold athletes to the same admission standards they hold non-athletes). The P.E. credits factor into this as the NCAA will accept those but many schools (like MU) will not. Qualifying with the NCAA is easier but harder to "massage" if the student doesn't qualify. Qualifying with the school is typically harder but it is a lot easier for the school to massage their requirements to sneak a student in. I think when the APR scores approached the danger zone, MU decided there would be no more massaging (too bad Bo didn't follow suit). Personally, I don't have a problem with this. A basketball scholarship is earned on the court and by meeting very low academic requirements. You don't earn it academically, there are literally hundreds of deserving, talented recruits who have earned it...many of whom have come from disadvantaged situations. I'm proud to call Jae an alum because he's a fantastic rep on and off the court and I trust we'll continue to recruit quality individuals moving forward.

[JWags85]

Can we split this into a side thread?  It’s the heart of the playoffs

[wadesworld]

Can we split this into a side thread?  It’s the heart of the playoffs

It could just be ended. It has been explained to Lenny many times over why the changes were made. The conversation should be over.

But you’re right. We know how this will go and it’s a different topic than the thread is.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

nm

Lenny's just bookmark this topic in the future so you can remember how ridiculous your "Jae's type" arguments are? 

[Lennys Tap]

I believe the numbers you are quoting are 4-year rolling averages. So if our 4-year average declined from 980 to 949, it likely means there were a few years where we were close to or below 930.

There is both a yearly score and a 4 year rolling score. The numbers I quoted were published as yearly scores, not 4 year rolling scores. If the NCAA publishes the 4 year rolling scores anywhere I have been unable to find them.

[cheebs09]

There is both a yearly score and a 4 year rolling score. The numbers I quoted were published as yearly scores, not 4 year rolling scores. If the NCAA publishes the 4 year rolling scores anywhere I have been unable to find them.

I’ll make this my last post, since I’ve kept this off the rails long enough.

Based on the NCAA website and the Paint Touches article I posted, you are using the multi-year scores. The NCAA’s annual score is made up of 4 years.

The article (which referenced a Jay Bee tweet) shows the single-year score for 2011-2012 was 941, which is factored into the 960.

Jay Bee probably understands this WAY better than me, but it seems after the new rules, we were back to increasing our score. I just don’t know how long that takes to actually impact the score.

We weren’t in danger of missing the NCAA, but we were trending towards the danger zone. I also seem to remember Larry’s policies were to get ahead of NCAA rule changes. I don’t know if those were ever implemented.

[wadesworld]

So to sum it up, like was said from the very start (of the same argument for the 100th time), changes to NCAA rules were made, and "Jae's type" make it harder to remain eligible for post season play.

Do we need to continue with the circular argument of you trying to twist words into pretzels and being proven wrong over and over again some more Lenny?  Or can we give it up now?  At least for this occurrence of you bringing up "Jae's type?"

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There is both a yearly score and a 4 year rolling score. The numbers I quoted were published as yearly scores, not 4 year rolling scores. If the NCAA publishes the 4 year rolling scores anywhere I have been unable to find them.

As Cheebs explains,  I believe you have the numbers reversed. The "yearly" numbers published by the NCAA are 4-year rolling averages. I'm honestly not certain where individual year scores are published.

[MU82]

How ‘bout these NBA playoffs, eh?

Enormous opportunity for the Buckaroos tonight!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Over/under on the number of Willis Reed references if Harden plays?

[cheebs09]

Over/under on the number of Willis Reed references if Harden plays?

Since I don’t think he’d be in the game long, it would be pretty low. Starting with his lack of conditioning to get out of Houston and missing so much time lately, I doubt he’s in great game shape.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They just need someone to take the pressure off of Durant because he'll be doubled and bumped every time he touches the ball.

[cheebs09]

They just need someone to take the pressure off of Durant because he'll be doubled and bumped every time he touches the ball.

It will be interesting to see what Tucker gets away with on Durant. He’s been pretty physical. I have to imagine the Nets are lobbying the league for a tighter whistle on him.

[wadesworld]

If they're going to call Tucker more tightly then they need to call Blake Griffin more tightly as well.

[MUfan12]

Ken Mauer has just whistled PJ Tucker for his third foul.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If they're going to call Tucker more tightly then they need to call Blake Griffin more tightly as well.

I think there are going to be a fair number of early whistles in this one. 

[MU82]

Glad Harden's playing, and I hope he's healthy enough to play well.

While I'm rooting for the Bucks in this one, I'm not a Bucks fan and I don't have any money on the game. Just want to see the best players play well and a good game for a change.

[JWags85]

It’s partially cause he’s backing up guys like Harden and Kyrie.  But holy hell is Mike James is awful.  If Im Bud, I double KD with James man and let him have anything he wants outside of 15 feet.

Speaking of awful, 4.25 games in, zero games in which both teams have even been competent at the same time. Unless something changes in the second quarter, this series is may be over.

[PGsHeroes32]

It’s partially cause he’s backing up guys like Harden and Kyrie.  But holy hell is Mike James is awful.  If Im Bud, I double KD with James man and let him have anything he wants outside of 15 feet.

Speaking of awful, 4.25 games in, zero games in which both teams have even been competent at the same time.

James is definitely pretty damn bad ha.

Nets just can't shoot for sh it right now. Green has knocked down a couple but Harris is a complete mess right now. Brown missed multiple wide open looks. Shamat had a Symir style brick.

Harden clearly toughing it out but just not himself. Can't drive at all.

[MuggsyB]

The Bucks should win this game easily.  Holiday with two really dumb fouls.