Marquette University adopts vision to raise its profile

[Tugg Speedman]

For the record we were tied at #77 when I arrived here as a Freshman now we're #83 four years later.  (Get any sarcastic comments about how it was my fault or my class's fault out of the way) I think that we need this plan as this is not a trend that we want to continue, as small as 6 places is. 

For the last 10 years MU has been between 75 (2005) and 90 (2002).  82 in 2012 and 83 in 2013.  And, as noted above, six schools were tied at 77, and MU is tied with 6 schools at 83.

[ChicosBailBonds]

MU has a chance to get ahead of the power curve because I don't see a ton of universities truly preparing their students for success in the corporate world which is where 90% of them are going to have to succeed.  Perhaps it's a millennial generation thing, but the number of under prepared college graduates is staggering.  If I'm a parent I'm much more interested in a school that is putting my kids on the track to a good career than they one that has the most alumni donations.

I have a Notre Dame intern (about to be a senior) who is a Electrical Engineer and Marketing student (interesting combo) starting here next week.  I'm interested to see how he does. 

[Marqevans]

Tuition at Marquette is roughly $33,000 plus another $10,000 for room and board for Frosh/Soph. Everyone that applies to Marquette is automatically applying for an Ignatius scholarship. These scholarships range anywhere from $3,000 per year to $14,000 per year. Marquette also offers many scholarships to students who have come from Jesuit highschools, and offers more financial aid than I can see from other state schools, including Wisconsin and Illinois.

Here's the thing about discounting through scholarships.  Most schools raise the tuition for full paying students to cover the cost of scholarships.  It is a cycle much like our tax systen where eventually more people are getting aid than are paying their share.

[Sunbelt15]

I have a Notre Dame intern (about to be a senior) who is a Electrical Engineer and Marketing student (interesting combo) starting here next week.  I'm interested to see how he does. 

Great combo!

[dgies9156]

There are too many liberal arts universities.

There are too many kids that graduate from these schools and then say, "ok, now what do I do?"
The global economy is becoming more and more specialized. It is very, very difficult to make career changes - you better major in something you are passionate about and that is marketable or you will find yourself getting a masters degree that will do just that. Kids most likely to succeed pick programs or colleges within universities that are very, very good at preparing students for the specific discipline. Unfortunately, not everyone figures it out as an upper classman in h.s.

No kidding.

I took my daughter to look at a well-regarded state university in Illinois last month and was incredibly impressed by the "real world" focus of the university. When we met with representatives of the uiniversity and my daughter's proposed academic discipline, I heard over-and-over about the linkage between the university and its graduates, about the placement capability and the focus on "after college." For a second, I thought I was at Notre Dame!

I don't expect colleges to be technical schools, but when I shell out six figures to educate a child, I want an end game. It's a different world from the 1970s, when Marquette focused on education for knowledge's sake. There is not financial room for a "mistake" or for creating "7-11 Management Trainees" with $160,000 philosophy degrees.

[Tugg Speedman]

There are too many liberal arts universities.
There are too many kids that graduate from these schools and then say, "ok, now what do I do?"
The global economy is becoming more and more specialized. It is very, very difficult to make career changes - you better major in something you are passionate about and that is marketable or you will find yourself getting a masters degree that will do just that.
Kids most likely to succeed pick programs or colleges within universities that are very, very good at preparing students for the specific discipline. Unfortunately, not everyone figures it out as an upper classman in h.s.

I don't expect colleges to be technical schools, but when I shell out six figures to educate a child, I want an end game. It's a different world from the 1970s, when Marquette focused on education for knowledge's sake. There is not financial room for a "mistake" or for creating "7-11 Management Trainees" with $160,000 philosophy degrees.

The problem is not too many liberal arts university.  Rather their are too many naive parents and students that think getting an esoteric degree from a liberal arts university makes them more marketable in the job market.

So people getting history or philosophy degrees better be looking to get a teaching job (either in HS or a college) and better have a good idea about the marketability of that degree otherwise why are they pursuing it?

[GGGG]

One of the reasons that there are so many liberal arts universities is that people with those skills used to be more marketable than they are now.  And its not like there are no opportunities for liberal arts graduates, but they are just very limited.

[warriorchick]

Colleges ranked on ROI:

http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2012

Marquette #123.  Bucky #150.

[Sir Lawrence]

Colleges ranked on ROI:

http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2012

Marquette #123.  Bucky #150.

In state for Bucky is better:  #117

Marquette's #123 is impressive.

[Eldon]

A few pages back someone said we need a niche--dentistry is not sufficient to yield a field of rich alums that we can ask for money/donations.  In my opinion, the program that seems to have the most promise is the applied investment management program (AIM) within the finance department within the b-school at MU.  Those kids seem to do well in the finance world (NYC and Chicago) and there is already an MU finance alum network in place.  Seems like a good place to start.

[Tugg Speedman]

A few pages back someone said we need a niche--dentistry is not sufficient to yield a field of rich alums that we can ask for money/donations.  In my opinion, the program that seems to have the most promise is the applied investment management program (AIM) within the finance department within the b-school at MU.  Those kids seem to do well in the finance world (NYC and Chicago) and there is already an MU finance alum network in place.  Seems like a good place to start.

MU is considered a national university.  It needs more than one niche.  One niche is what liberal arts and/or regional universities have.

That said, you're right about the AIM program.  Because of AIM, MU's undergraduate finance program is ranked in the top 20 in the nation.  These kids make a ton of money coming out of MU (with nearly 100% placement before graduation day) and are well into six figure salaries by their mid-20s.  It is a shining success for the undergraduate business school.

And it's not just NYC and Chicago, some of them are on the west coast and in London.

[PaintTouches]

That said, you're right about the AIM program.  Because of AIM, MU's undergraduate finance program is ranked in the top 20 in the nation.  These kids make a ton of money coming out of MU (with nearly 100% placement before graduation day) and are well into six figure salaries by their mid-20s.  It is a shining success for the undergraduate business school.

Agreed, that AIM program is top notch. Small sample size but everyone I knew in it during my time there is employed and most are in either New York or Chicago.

I wish Marquette's journalism department would get its act together. It has a tremendous alumni base and does absolutely nothing with it. For a school of this size, to have one or two nationally renowned figures is fantastic, and we have about ten right now. As it relates to sports, when you have the likes of Rushin and Pierce, you have to be able to advertise that and maintain a link. Yet, the sole sports journo class I took was akin to taking a fifth grade writing class. 

Missouri and Northwestern have cornered the sports journo market (first thing my boss at FOX Sports did when he had an opening was call Mizzou to see if they had any seniors that might be a good fit), but I still believe the foundation is in place should the college of comm ever open its eyes. Long story short, specialization is key.

[Spotcheck Billy]

nm

[keefe]

Two things:

First, for the public university I work for, support from the state of Indiana has decreased from about 40% of our budget in 1990, to less than 20% today.  The difference has to some from somewhere...and that somewhere is tuition.

Second, for private schools, focus on what kids actually pay and not the list price.

Figures. The guy who works for a state university and likely has no corporate experience is an expert on corporate America...the profit incentive and need to deliver shareholder value separates the men from the boys.

There were two candidates for Governor of Washington. One started a company, built it up from nothing, struggled to make payroll (went months without paying himself,) created jobs, generated wealth.  He built a business and left a legacy. The other candidate was a career government lawyer. She never spent one day in the private sector. Never knew what it meant to make payroll. Had no concept of profit or loss. Of course she won the election but I voted for the guy who earned his way in the world. 

[keefe]

One of the reasons that there are so many liberal arts universities is that people with those skills used to be more marketable than they are now.  And its not like there are no opportunities for liberal arts graduates, but they are just very limited.

The opportunities are not limited. The only limitation is the individual. Our son graduated from Middlebury with a degree in Italian language and literature. He worked on Wall Street for Guggenheim for two years before getting his PhD at Columbia. He now teaches university in Firenze. When he was hired at Guggenheim they found his language skills, international upbringing, and liberal arts degree from a little ivy far more attractive than a run of the mill MBA.

Our daughter graduated from Columbia with a degree in English Lit. After matriculation she was hired at the Gates Foundation where she worked on clean water issues in Global Health. She did not have a degree in microbiology or engineering; the Foundation values the total person more than the specific degree. She then went to the Clinton Foundation where she continued work on global health. She is beginning her grad work at the Kennedy School this Fall. Her emphasis will be global health policy but not as a scientist. I would argue her liberal arts education has been very valuable in her work in a scientific field and her course of study at Harvard will continue that liberal arts education.

I would say both these young people were well served by a liberal arts education. That academic foundation combined with their exceptional international perspectives, open minds, and willingness to pursue the difficult has afforded them significant opportunities. These two never saw limitations and leveraged their liberal arts educations into rewarding, interesting lives.

Some people, obviously, do not see the world in the same way and settle for what is comfortable, available, defined, or easy. Unfortunately, these folks let fear, ignorance, or a genuine lack of creativity or perspective dictate the rhythm, tone and tenor of their existences. Others need to be challenged and push themselves to achieve world class excellence. They realize, in a way you likely cannot comprehend, that opportunity must be recognized then earned for it is rarely given.   

[keefe]

nm

[GGGG]

The opportunities are not limited. The only limitation is the individual. Our son graduated from Middlebury with a degree in Italian language and literature. He worked on Wall Street for Guggenheim for two years before getting his PhD at Columbia. He now teaches university in Firenze. When he was hired at Guggenheim they found his language skills, international upbringing, and liberal arts degree from a little ivy far more attractive than a run of the mill MBA.

Our daughter graduated from Columbia with a degree in English Lit. After matriculation she was hired at the Gates Foundation where she worked on clean water issues in Global Health. She did not have a degree in microbiology or engineering; the Foundation values the total person more than the specific degree. She then went to the Clinton Foundation where she continued work on global health. She is beginning her grad work at the Kennedy School this Fall. Her emphasis will be global health policy but not as a scientist. I would argue her liberal arts education has been very valuable in her work in a scientific field and her course of study at Harvard will continue that liberal arts education.

I would say both these young people were well served by a liberal arts education. That academic foundation combined with their exceptional international perspectives, open minds, and willingness to pursue the difficult has afforded them significant opportunities. These two never saw limitations and leveraged their liberal arts educations into rewarding, interesting lives.

Some people, obviously, do not see the world in the same way and settle for what is comfortable, available, defined, or easy. Unfortunately, these folks let fear, ignorance, or a genuine lack of creativity or perspective dictate the rhythm, tone and tenor of their existences. Others need to be challenged and push themselves to achieve world class excellence. They realize, in a way you likely cannot comprehend, that opportunity must be recognized then earned for it is rarely given.   

These are obviously atypical examples.  Anybody can make any path of life seem like the best path if they only cherry-pick the exceptions.

[Hards Alumni]

Figures. The guy who works for a state university and likely has no corporate experience is an expert on corporate America...the profit incentive and need to deliver shareholder value separates the men from the boys.

There were two candidates for Governor of Washington. One started a company, built it up from nothing, struggled to make payroll (went months without paying himself,) created jobs, generated wealth.  He built a business and left a legacy. The other candidate was a career government lawyer. She never spent one day in the private sector. Never knew what it meant to make payroll. Had no concept of profit or loss. Of course she won the election but I voted for the guy who earned his way in the world. 

You know who makes a terrible politician.  A businessman.  Government isn't a business.

[warriorchick]

You know who makes a terrible politician.  A businessman.  Government isn't a business.

And those career politicians are doing a great job.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You know who makes a terrible politician.  A businessman.  Government isn't a business.

I'm not sure that's fair.

The private sector, in theory, will always produce the most efficient and "best" product/services.

There is nothing wrong with bringing some of those theories to how we manage portions of the government.

Now, is a private businessman ALWAYS better than a career politician? Certainly not. But, some career politicians are really good at getting re-elected, which doesn't mean they are good at their job. It means they are good at getting elected.

[dgies9156]

You know who makes a terrible politician.  A businessman.  Government isn't a business.

Amen to Warriorchick on this one!

Government is a business, whether you want to admit it or not. It manages economic activity by collecting taxes (revenue) and allocating resources (expenses). It's constituency, or stockholders, are the people who elect leaders and its Board of Directors often is out of control.

Nonetheless, if you think government is not a business, take a look at your next paycheck and see how much this  "non-business government" takes from you. If you live in Illinois, watch as property taxes rise so much your taxes are the single biggest component to owning your house and you can't afford it as you retire. Oh, and take a good hard look at the $100 billion pension mess we have in our state -- and the massive concessions we have to make to get business (and jobs) to stay here.

[mu03eng]

I'm not sure that's fair.

The private sector, in theory, will always produce the most efficient and "best" product/services.

There is nothing wrong with bringing some of those theories to how we manage portions of the government.

Now, is a private businessman ALWAYS better than a career politician? Certainly not. But, some career politicians are really good at getting re-elected, which doesn't mean they are good at their job. It means they are good at getting elected.

Well and who says government shouldn't be more like a business.  The main factor about a private business is it needs to adequately service a market to continue remain in existence.  Shouldn't that be what government is, servicing a market?  Regardless of party who thinks anything about the government is servicing their market?

[mu03eng]

And to try to get this back on track before we get to a lock or Nazis....I feel like we've got a lot of good ideas here, how do we get the university to take action on some of them.  I feel like the university sends out a lot of surveys and information gathering tools and then proceeds with whatever they were planning anyway.  Are they reaching out to industry to see what industry needs?  MU is never going to be a huge research facility nor should they IMHO.  They should focus on providing students the tools to be wildly successful(leadership) within their chosen profession.

This does two things, provides quantifiable value to potential students and hopefully gives a financial hook for a lot of rich alumni to donate to the university and support a future students.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well and who says government shouldn't be more like a business.  The main factor about a private business is it needs to adequately service a market to continue remain in existence.  Shouldn't that be what government is, servicing a market?  Regardless of party who thinks anything about the government is servicing their market?

Some portions should be run more like a business, absolutely.

But, the fundamental goals of private enterprise vs government aren't the same, so it's not really as simple as saying "government should run like a business". That's too simplistic.

[Dr. Blackheart]

If education were run like a business, its costs would be in line...which isn't even close.  Keeping the gravy train rolling has sent things out of whack.  Fact is, colleges and universities are in for some very tough years as their consumer face and ability to pay changes drastically in the coming years.  Reducing costs for example to shift to more virtual teaching and learning. Widening student based via the web to worldwide, recruitment of Asian students, especially India and China, are all needed to survive.

This chart is damning...

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-23/college-tuitions-1-120-percent-increase