ESPN Has Lost Its Mind

[rocket surgeon]

i don't think espn realizes there is anything to apologize for-this is how they roll and what their agenda is.  they are trying to be the "trailblazers", ahead of the curve, politically correct people and everyone else is too stupid to understand.   

[mu03eng]

I might have phrased it poorly. But your good intent doesn't change or minimize the negative impact it had on someone else. Basic communications theory, SMCR. If there is a fault with the message, it is always the sender's fault, not the receiver's.

PS, I'm talking about big business and media here. Not one to one conversations.

Eh, even at the corporate to many level, intent has to matter otherwise you turn communication over to the tyranny of the mob. If I can find 100 people that are offended by my use of a cartoon bear to sell toilet paper because it steals the essence of the bear, as a corporation I should apologize and discontinue my use of that campaign? We need to move back to a "reasonable person" standard because we are degrading our ability to communicate effectively. People, corporations, etc are getting to the point where they aren't communicating or at least really inefficiently because we are afraid of reaction....see ESPN.

[Babybluejeans]

Why do you guys even engage with Snowflake Smuggles? He's proven his capacity for nuanced thought is that of a garbanzo bean.

[Jockey]

He said Venus was using "guerilla tactics" in playing tennis.  That is a thing, very aggressive up at the net play.

There is no such thing as "gorilla tactics" in tennis.

You made up that quote. He never said "gorilla tactics".

You might want to check the video.

[Jockey]

Ok, going political and probably get this thread locked but it needs to be said ... why do you think Trump's approval rating went up after Charlottesville.  Yes, it went up.  And a majority of the public agreed with him on statues, even African Americans.

I don't think your numbers are right, but regardless.....

Why do you support statues of traitors in honored places like parks and gov't buildings? Put 'em in museums where they belong. Every one on these guys was a U.S. citizen who turned on their country and killed American soldiers. Traitors should not be honored.

We also know that many, many of these statues were erected during the heyday of the Klan - when they were a very large national organization - to intimidate blacks and show who had the real power.

[Skitch]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/08/22/espn-pulls-announcer-robert-lee-off-virginia-game-charlottesville-protests/592458001/

According to this it was the announcers decision to switch games.

Btw is there a bigger tool in sports "media" than Clay Travis?

[Jockey]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/08/22/espn-pulls-announcer-robert-lee-off-virginia-game-charlottesville-protests/592458001/

According to this it was the announcers decision to switch games.

Btw is there a bigger tool in sports "media" than Clay Travis?

I'm sure a ton of apologies will be coming from those who attacked ESPN for "making" this awful decision.

[Pakuni]

Btw is there a bigger tool in sports "media" than Clay Travis?

DeMarcus Cousins is going to be arrested any day now, just you wait.

[Badgerhater]

Good thing that Tom Jackson retired from ESPN last year.

[tower912]

Why do you guys even engage with Snowflake Smuggles? He's proven his capacity for nuanced thought is that of a garbanzo bean.

He's more of a broflake.

[mu03eng]

I'm sure a ton of apologies will be coming from those who attacked ESPN for "making" this awful decision.

Even if you interprite the story as favorably as possible for ESPN, they initiated this by bringing it up to the broadcaster. If it's a concern just switch him and be done with it, why even ask?

Only way ESPN is "off the hook" is if this is 100% the broadcaster bringing it up and asking for the switch....in which case ESPN is falling on a grenade for Mr Lee, which is admirable

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Eh, even at the corporate to many level, intent has to matter otherwise you turn communication over to the tyranny of the mob. If I can find 100 people that are offended by my use of a cartoon bear to sell toilet paper because it steals the essence of the bear, as a corporation I should apologize and discontinue my use of that campaign? We need to move back to a "reasonable person" standard because we are degrading our ability to communicate effectively. People, corporations, etc are getting to the point where they aren't communicating or at least really inefficiently because we are afraid of reaction....see ESPN.

I think we are talking about different things. Saying intent doesn't matter, impact does, doesn't throw out the reasonable person standard. Just because someone is offended doesn't mean that the company has to apologize. But they can't control the customer. They can't tell them that they are a bad customer and need to change their opinion. All they can control is their response. If it doesn't pass the reasonable person standard, than the best response is to ignore. Now, what does and doesn't pass the reasonable person standard is usually the center of the debate.

[Jockey]

Even if you interprite the story as favorably as possible for ESPN, they initiated this by bringing it up to the broadcaster. If it's a concern just switch him and be done with it, why even ask?

Only way ESPN is "off the hook" is if this is 100% the broadcaster bringing it up and asking for the switch....in which case ESPN is falling on a grenade for Mr Lee, which is admirable

I pretty much agree. The best word I can come up with is "overcompensate" to describe ESPN's behavior here.

I am just amazed at what upsets some people these days.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You made up that quote. He never said "gorilla tactics".

You might want to check the video.

Yeah, prompted by this I actually looked up the clip. The exact phrase was "move in and put the gorilla/guerilla effect on. Charging."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/756699/ESPN-Venus-Williams-gorilla-commentator-sacked

If he said guerilla tactics, a very common phrase, I would have been shocked at the eventual outcome. With what was actually said? Hard to know. Only he knows what he actually meant. Personally I think of a gorilla charging before I think of a guerilla charging but that doesn't prove anything.

[rocket surgeon]

 not only is espn losing it, but it seems to be rubbing off on some of their people-bad timing?

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/08/23/espn-host-arrested-after-reportedly-wandering-naked-into-strangers-home.html

[Tugg Speedman]

Yeah, prompted by this I actually looked up the clip. The exact phrase was "move in and put the gorilla/guerilla effect on. Charging."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/756699/ESPN-Venus-Williams-gorilla-commentator-sacked

If he said guerilla tactics, a very common phrase, I would have been shocked at the eventual outcome. With what was actually said? Hard to know. Only he knows what he actually meant. Personally I think of a gorilla charging before I think of a guerilla charging but that doesn't prove anything.

Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis.  As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.

And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic.  So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging."  His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."

By here you show how gone you are.  You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows."  You honestly think he might be a racist.  Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him.  Easier to throw him under the bus.

Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator.  He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment.  By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react.  So you hide behind tortured logic.

Others are standing up and saying enough.

[GGGG]

Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis.  As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.

And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic.  So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging."  His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."

By here you show how gone you are.  You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows."  You honestly think he might be a racist.  Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him.  Easier to throw him under the bus.

Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator.  He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment.  By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react.  So you hide behind tortured logic.

Others are standing up and saying enough.

Or, as in your case, people just say random sh*t to get attention.

[reinko]

Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis.  As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.

And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic.  So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging."  His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."

By here you show how gone you are.  You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows."  You honestly think he might be a racist.  Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him.  Easier to throw him under the bus.

Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator.  He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment.  By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react.  So you hide behind tortured logic.

Others are standing up and saying enough.

How do you get through life being so offended by things like this?  Must be exhausting.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Again Guerilla Tactics is a thing in tennis.  As I posted on page 1, NIKE devoted an entire ad campaign to the phrase in 1995.

And the Guerilla tactic is exactly what he described, charging to the net and volleying in an aggressive tactic.  So he described the phrase correctly by saying "charging."  His problem was he was tongue tied and said "guerilla effect" and not "guerilla tactic."

I googled guerilla tactics tennis. Nothing came up but this story. It doesn't really seem to be a thing in tennis at all. I don't think Nike dedicated ad campaign to it, I think they invented a term for the ad campaign. I suppose its possible that the announcer was thinking of a 22 year old ad campaign for a shoe but I think saying "guerilla tactics is a thing in tennis" is a little disingenuous. If you can find me an example that is actually tennis related and not shoe selling related I am prepared to listen.

By here you show how gone you are.  You torture logic to the point that you cannot make a decision and then defend yourself by only saying "only he knows."  You honestly think he might be a racist.  Not because you have evidence he is, but you are more worried about what others will think of you for defending him.  Easier to throw him under the bus.

Adler is a long time tennis player/commentator.  He is not a racist and did not make a racist comment.  By too many are like you and afraid to form an opinion because of your afraid of how the mob will react.  So you hide behind tortured logic.

I don't think I advocated throwing him under the bus or called him a racist. I simply stated the fact, only he knows what he said. If he called her a gorilla, that's a racist comment. If he called her a guerilla, that's not a racist comment. How do you prove it either way? I don't know. I'm glad I didn't have to make that decision. I tend to try to see the good in people so I probably would have given him the benefit of the doubt. I think the greater question might be whether or not a racist comment should get you fired. There needs to be accountability and education but should someone get fired for something that many in other professions do on a daily basis with no repercussions?

Others are standing up and saying enough.

Yes, these people are:



The guy getting fired, I understand why people are upset. A man lost his job. But the people who get so angry that others would dare to have a different opinion from them and be offended by something that they aren't offended by? I don't get it.

[GooooMarquette]

I actually have a very good friend whose brother's name is Robert E. Lee, and he goes by Bob.  He is still "Bobby" to anyone who knew him before he had his first real job.

I worked with a guy in Richmond named Robert E. Lee and he went by...Robert E. Lee.  That was about 25 years ago.  Not sure if he still uses the full name....

[reinko]

Robert E. Lee the general, and his brethren were responsible for 620,000 deaths in OUR nation's history because they wanted free labor of black people to do their bidding.  Period.

If public monuments are used for educational and historical purposes in places like parks and town squares, where are the Bin Laden monuments to educate folks about 9/11 or Timothy McVeigh monuments to make sure we remember the Oklahoma City bombing.

[GB Warrior]

Only ESPN could somehow make news attempting to do something PC and pissing off everyone. This is truly the unity our country deserves.

[Jockey]

Robert E. Lee the general, and his brethren were responsible for 620,000 deaths in OUR nation's history because they wanted free labor of black people to do their bidding.  Period.

If public monuments are used for educational and historical purposes in places like parks and town squares, where are the Bin Laden monuments to educate folks about 9/11 or Timothy McVeigh monuments to make sure we remember the Oklahoma City bombing.

Well said. Are there any countries in the world that put up statues to honor the generals from the countries they defeated? Especially generals who were traitors?

[Jockey]

Only ESPN could somehow make news attempting to do something PC and pissing off everyone. This is truly the unity our country deserves.

I don't know whether they were even trying to be PC. I think they were trying to spare a young sportscaster from the fallout that we know would happen on social media.

[cheebs09]

I've played/watched a lot of tennis over the last 20 years and have never heard that term.