Football Ratings Are Down

[Tugg Speedman]

How does the various networks giving away commercial time affect the NFLPA income?  Does the NFL get paid less for rights fees?  I don't think so.  If the NFL's income is unchanged, it doesn't affect the salary cap and therefore doesn't impact player income.

Again, it's DeMaurice.  My guess is the first way to get the guy to listen to you would be to at least get his name right.

If the broadcasters have to take losses in the form of give backs, they share that with the league.

[Tugg Speedman]

For all you Kaepernick deniers, this owner is correct.  It is a private business and they can set any rules they want.

Doug Baldwin on How NFL Owners Have Tried to Control Players During the National Anthem
He said one owner told his players: “You’re going to stand on the line with your hand on your heart … Because this is my stage”

https://theringer.com/any-given-wednesday-episode-13-preview-clips-doug-baldwin-national-anthem-concussion-protocol-4dfd92fc0a64#.x53thjbvm

[brewcity77]

For all you Kaepernick deniers, this owner is correct.  It is a private business and they can set any rules they want.

Doug Baldwin on How NFL Owners Have Tried to Control Players During the National Anthem
He said one owner told his players: “You’re going to stand on the line with your hand on your heart … Because this is my stage”

https://theringer.com/any-given-wednesday-episode-13-preview-clips-doug-baldwin-national-anthem-concussion-protocol-4dfd92fc0a64#.x53thjbvm

No, he's not. He can't force his own nationalism ceremony on players any more than he could mandate they participate in a prayer circle. I would love, absolutely love to see someone fight that and get cut. Let the courts decide. I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that forcing players to behave a certain way during a mandated show of nationalism would be tossed out faster than Usain Bolt can run the 40 cm dash.

[Tugg Speedman]

No, he's not. He can't force his own nationalism ceremony on players any more than he could mandate they participate in a prayer circle. I would love, absolutely love to see someone fight that and get cut. Let the courts decide. I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that forcing players to behave a certain way during a mandated show of nationalism would be tossed out faster than Usain Bolt can run the 40 cm dash.

The have clauses in the contract that allow this.  The NFLPA agreed to this.

These clauses give the league broad authority, like mandating drug tests, punishment for off the field activity, and moral clauses that regulate behavior.

[brewcity77]

The have clauses in the contract that allow this.  The NFLPA agreed to this.

These clauses give the league broad authority, like mandating drug tests, punishment for off the field activity, and moral clauses that regulate behavior.

Plain and simple, cut someone and bring it to court. That BS will be overturned in a heartbeat. The notion that you can enforce a moral clause on an individual who is acting out a constitutionally granted right is simply laughable.

[Tugg Speedman]

Plain and simple, cut someone and bring it to court. That BS will be overturned in a heartbeat. The notion that you can enforce a moral clause on an individual who is acting out a constitutionally granted right is simply laughable.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/players-cant-be-disciplined-for-not-standing-for-anthem-but/

As a practical matter, however, the NFLPA realizes that players can be cut for refusing to conform, if the teams are smart enough to avoid saying or doing anything that would suggest that the move has anything to do with not standing for the anthem. That’s surely one of the reasons why the 49ers have made it clear that quarterback Colin Kaepernick can do whatever he wants to do during the anthem. If/when they release him, anything other than a firewall between respect for the flag and football ability will invite a grievance based on the claim that the team cut him because of his activism.

The Seahawks, to date, have likewise said all the right things about cornerback Jeremy Lane. If/when he’s ever released, it becomes difficult to pin the move to his decision to sit during the anthem.

For other teams, a decision by a player to sit or kneel during the anthem followed by a decision to get rid of the player could be problematic. Both Bills coach Rex Ryan and Rams coach Jeff Fisher have made it clear that, on their teams, the players stand. So if a player refuses to stand and is then cut, he could have a case.

[forgetful]

Plain and simple, cut someone and bring it to court. That BS will be overturned in a heartbeat. The notion that you can enforce a moral clause on an individual who is acting out a constitutionally granted right is simply laughable.

This!  Any player cut would be a wealthy wealthy individual very shortly after filing the lawsuit.

[brewcity77]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/players-cant-be-disciplined-for-not-standing-for-anthem-but/

As a practical matter, however, the NFLPA realizes that players can be cut for refusing to conform, if the teams are smart enough to avoid saying or doing anything that would suggest that the move has anything to do with not standing for the anthem. That’s surely one of the reasons why the 49ers have made it clear that quarterback Colin Kaepernick can do whatever he wants to do during the anthem. If/when they release him, anything other than a firewall between respect for the flag and football ability will invite a grievance based on the claim that the team cut him because of his activism.

The Seahawks, to date, have likewise said all the right things about cornerback Jeremy Lane. If/when he’s ever released, it becomes difficult to pin the move to his decision to sit during the anthem.

For other teams, a decision by a player to sit or kneel during the anthem followed by a decision to get rid of the player could be problematic. Both Bills coach Rex Ryan and Rams coach Jeff Fisher have made it clear that, on their teams, the players stand. So if a player refuses to stand and is then cut, he could have a case.

Thanks for that. Supports what I said 100%.

[Pakuni]

I guess he did not get the memo that Kaepernick has nothing to do with the decline in ratings.

Seahawks Doug Baldwin Tells Bill Simmons At Least One NFL Owner is Forcing Players to Stand For Anthem

http://www.mediaite.com/online/seahawks-doug-baldwin-tells-bill-simmons-at-least-one-nfl-owner-is-forcing-players-to-stand-for-anthem/

Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Doug Baldwin is accusing NFL owners of interfering with National Anthem protests, claiming that at least one is forcing his players to stand.

In an excerpt of the latest episode of Any Given Wednesday which will air later tonight on HBO, Baldwin told host Bill Simmons that multiple owners have told players to “do specific things,” during the Anthem.

“There are some owners out there that have taken a stand and told players to do certain things which I think is egregious.” Baldwin said.

Simmons asked Baldwin to elaborate, which was when the Seahawks wideout made the claim that one owner is forcing his players to stand.

“Specifically, regarding the National Anthem and the protests, the one quote that I was informed of was, ‘You’re going to stand on the line with your hand on your heart and you’re going to sing the National Anthem because this is my stage,’” Baldwin said.

You guys, like Doug Baldwin, have fallen for an internet hoax.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/07/doug-baldwins-this-is-my-stage-claim-may-have-come-from-an-internet-hoax/

[Pakuni]

So if you worked for the NFL marketing and were shown the 20% drop from a year earlier, you would be shrugging your shoulders.

If you were, you would be updating your resume today.

No.
I would be looking for the actual reasons and doing what, it anything, could be done to address those reasons, not scapegoating a handful of players for being uppity.

[bma77]

No.
I would be looking for the actual reasons and doing what, it anything, could be done to address those reasons, not scapegoating a handful of players for being uppity.

No need to use that language at the end. 

Are you saying Baldwin fell for a hoax, not people here.  People here trusted what Mr. Baldwin said.  Maybe they shouldn't have.  When a player makes those charges, the public is supposed to check to see if it is a hoax?  Why wouldn't the public believe that players talk to each other and the story has merit?  Or should we challenge all player comments moving forward?

[Tugg Speedman]

No need to use that language at the end. 

Are you saying Baldwin fell for a hoax, not people here.  People here trusted what Mr. Baldwin said.  Maybe they shouldn't have.  When a player makes those charges, the public is supposed to check to see if it is a hoax?  Why wouldn't the public believe that players talk to each other and the story has merit?  Or should we challenge all player comments moving forward?

And if we are to challenge all player comments, why should we accept the NFL's assertion that protest are not affecting TV ratings?

[Pakuni]

No need to use that language at the end. 

Are you saying Baldwin fell for a hoax, not people here.  People here trusted what Mr. Baldwin said.  Maybe they shouldn't have.  When a player makes those charges, the public is supposed to check to see if it is a hoax?  Why wouldn't the public believe that players talk to each other and the story has merit?  Or should we challenge all player comments moving forward?

That language is accurate.

I'm saying Baldwin fell for the apparent hoax, as did the people who repeated it. Fact is, it was revealed as a likely hoax via multiple outlets more than 24 hours before anyone posted it here. Whether you choose to challenge any player's comments is up to you - I suspect the level of challenge you give it depends entirely on whether the comments support your view - but you're responsible for what you post, and if you post information that's already been proven incorrect, that's on you.  Personal responsibility and everything, right?

[MU82]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/players-cant-be-disciplined-for-not-standing-for-anthem-but/

As a practical matter, however, the NFLPA realizes that players can be cut for refusing to conform, if the teams are smart enough to avoid saying or doing anything that would suggest that the move has anything to do with not standing for the anthem. That’s surely one of the reasons why the 49ers have made it clear that quarterback Colin Kaepernick can do whatever he wants to do during the anthem. If/when they release him, anything other than a firewall between respect for the flag and football ability will invite a grievance based on the claim that the team cut him because of his activism.

In your haste to show how smart you are, you proved you were wrong!!!!!

The only way they can cut a guy for refusing to stand for the anthem is to pretend they are cutting him for some other reason.

Oh, the humility, Smuggles!!!

[forgetful]

Before anyone posts things on the ratings for tomorrow or Monday. 

Ratings will almost assuredly be down again.  It will have everything to do with politics and NOTHING to do with Kap or standing during the anthem.

[Tugg Speedman]

That language is accurate.

I'm saying Baldwin fell for the apparent hoax, as did the people who repeated it. Fact is, it was revealed as a likely hoax via multiple outlets more than 24 hours before anyone posted it here. Whether you choose to challenge any player's comments is up to you - I suspect the level of challenge you give it depends entirely on whether the comments support your view - but you're responsible for what you post, and if you post information that's already been proven incorrect, that's on you.  Personal responsibility and everything, right?

And when does responsibility to admit that protests are one of the factors affecting ratings kick in?

[Tugg Speedman]

Before anyone posts things on the ratings for tomorrow or Monday. 

Ratings will almost assuredly be down again.  It will have everything to do with politics and NOTHING to do with Kap or standing during the anthem.

What about Thursday's game?  Did everyone know that the game was going to be terrible at the start?  Because the ratings started crappy and got worse all game.

[bma77]

Before anyone posts things on the ratings for tomorrow or Monday. 

Ratings will almost assuredly be down again.  It will have everything to do with politics and NOTHING to do with Kap or standing during the anthem.

Yes, all those people that have pledged not to watch this year are making it up.   

Baseball ratings will be up, because baseball fans don't know politics are going on.  Right?  They are immune from politics.

You do yourself an intelligence disservice to say NOTHING.  The idea you need to capitalize it for all to know is an invitation.

Other than Jessie here, is anyone saying it is the only reason for ratings decline?  No one else is, yet you go to the other extreme and say it has nothing or no impact.  You are just as whacked out and unintelligent in this discussion to say nothing.  Hard to understand how a MU educated person can speak in such ignorant absolutes.  Sorry, but I have to be blunt. 

[forgetful]

Yes, all those people that have pledged not to watch this year are making it up.   

Baseball ratings will be up, because baseball fans don't know politics are going on.  Right?  They are immune from politics.

You do yourself an intelligence disservice to say NOTHING.  The idea you need to capitalize it for all to know is an invitation.

Other than Jessie here, is anyone saying it is the only reason for ratings decline?  No one else is, yet you go to the other extreme and say it has nothing or no impact.  You are just as whacked out and unintelligent in this discussion to say nothing.  Hard to understand how a MU educated person can speak in such ignorant absolutes.  Sorry, but I have to be blunt.

Notice I specified tomorrow.  Tomorrows ratings will likely be way down and I know people will immediately point to it to support their assertion, even though it is false. 

The nothing was also not meant literally.  Everything has an effect.I've stated that the Kap effect is minor if anything previously. 

Way to go off the deep end though and immediately attack the poster.  Especially given that you'd "in theory" be new here.  My guess is that you are not the former rational poster that went by bma, and instead are actually another reincarnation of chicos...no other way to rationalize a way over the top response.

[brewcity77]

Yes, all those people that have pledged not to watch this year are making it up.   

Baseball ratings will be up, because baseball fans don't know politics are going on.  Right?  They are immune from politics.

You do yourself an intelligence disservice to say NOTHING.  The idea you need to capitalize it for all to know is an invitation.

Other than Jessie here, is anyone saying it is the only reason for ratings decline?  No one else is, yet you go to the other extreme and say it has nothing or no impact.  You are just as whacked out and unintelligent in this discussion to say nothing.  Hard to understand how a MU educated person can speak in such ignorant absolutes.  Sorry, but I have to be blunt.

You sound like the cop from The Usual Suspects intro.

Cop: "I can put you in Queens on the night of the hijacking!"

Hockney: "Really? I live in Queens. Did you put that together yourself, Einstein, or do you have a team of monkeys working around the clock on this one?"

Baseball always has their biggest month at this time of year. Their fans are accustomed to the most important part of the season occurring during election time. Add in good on-field product and added interest due to the Cubs run at history and you're going to naturally see increased interest.

Meanwhile, the NFL has historically had election year ratings dips and is going through their most meaningless portion of the season. Viewers can tune back in mid-November and not miss much. Maybe they will, hopefully they won't. Love to see even more walk away, whatever the reason, and the league fold up when the Super Bowl gets a zero rating. Here's hoping

I'm personally not willing to say it has zero impact, but trying to compare baseball and football here is apples to piano keys.

[Tugg Speedman]

Other than Jessie here, is anyone saying it is the only reason for ratings decline?  No one else is, yet you go to the other extreme and say it has nothing or no impact.  You are just as whacked out and unintelligent in this discussion to say nothing.  Hard to understand how a MU educated person can speak in such ignorant absolutes.  Sorry, but I have to be blunt.

I have not said The protests are the only reason, made that clear from the beginning.  But I have been vocal that it is reason, and it is the only reason that has an immediate fix.

Meanwhile, the NFL has historically had election year ratings dips and is going through their most meaningless portion of the season. Viewers can tune back in mid-November and not miss much. Maybe they will, hopefully they won't. Love to see even more walk away, whatever the reason, and the league fold up when the Super Bowl gets a zero rating. Here's hoping

This is wrong

2012 saw a dip because of fan protests of the replacement refs.  It ended when that was settled.

2008 saw no meaningful drop, even though the economy was on the verge of collapse, and government officials were holding emergency meetings on Sunday afternoons to prevent markets from panicking on Monday, the public watched the NFL like any other year.

2004 saw no dip in ratings.

2000 dip was after the election with the Florida recount, as we watched this on Sunday afternoon.



Meanwhile college football TV ratings are up and baseball is outperforming.

Since Labor Day The NFL stands alone with a big unexplained drop in TV ratings.  All the ideas thrown out here are correct ... including a backlash from the protests.

Of all The remedies to improve ratings, ending the protest is the only one that can happen tomorrow.

[rocket surgeon]

How much does anyone want to bet tonight's game is one kappernick's influence will not be seen.  Ya see, in "fly-over" country, we respect the cops, our military and our flag.  Many are going to want to see how much more beckham is going to get fined for his victim-ness
          GO PACK!!

[GGGG]

I'm predicting the worst rating in the history of Sunday Night Football. 

[bma77]

You sound like the cop from The Usual Suspects intro.

Cop: "I can put you in Queens on the night of the hijacking!"

Hockney: "Really? I live in Queens. Did you put that together yourself, Einstein, or do you have a team of monkeys working around the clock on this one?"

Baseball always has their biggest month at this time of year. Their fans are accustomed to the most important part of the season occurring during election time. Add in good on-field product and added interest due to the Cubs run at history and you're going to naturally see increased interest.

Meanwhile, the NFL has historically had election year ratings dips and is going through their most meaningless portion of the season. Viewers can tune back in mid-November and not miss much. Maybe they will, hopefully they won't. Love to see even more walk away, whatever the reason, and the league fold up when the Super Bowl gets a zero rating. Here's hoping

I'm personally not willing to say it has zero impact, but trying to compare baseball and football here is apples to piano keys.

NFL ratings did not drop in 2004 or 2008, so you are 50% right. 

You are right, comparing NFL and MLB was not proper.  MLB players aren't taking knees during the national anthem and acting like fools, but some NFL players are.  No #boycottmlb movement as a result.   

[bma77]

Can someone explain to me why NFL Pres season ratings prior to the protests being reported had similar ratings to the previous years except for the HOF game (it was cancelled this year), but then took a sudden downturn after the protests hit the media?

Merely a coincidence?