MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: moomoo on October 09, 2013, 07:54:05 AM
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looks like it COULD be alcohol or drugs, from marquettetribune
"The Honor Code Suspension Chart denotes that the specific basketball-related penalty assessed to the second offense of a Category B violation is exactly 11 games. A Category B violation is defined as the “use, possession, buying, selling, bartering, or distributing alcohol and/or other drugs.” A third offense under this category would result in “suspension from performances, activities, or competitions for the remainder of the student’s high school career."
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It also COULD be that he was at a party where drinking was occurring, but he didn't partake.
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Does that mean it was his 3rd offense? I dont fault the kid for possibly drinking or being at a party but if youve been busted twice already, the light bulb should come on.
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Does that mean it was his 3rd offense?
It's one of those "the school won't say, but these facts fit this situation" kind of deal.
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Does that mean it was his 3rd offense? I dont fault the kid for possibly drinking or being at a party but if youve been busted twice already, the light bulb should come on.
This.
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It's one of those "the school won't say, but these facts fit this situation" kind of deal.
Not necessarily, because he was suspended for the remainder of his high school career doesn't mean it was his third violation. A second violation is suspension for the year which in Malek's case is the remainder of his high school career.
Based on everything else, had he been a junior he would have only been suspended for the year which indicates it was only his second violation.
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It also COULD be that he was at a party where drinking was occurring, but he didn't partake.
Really?
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Adios
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Adios
Really?
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Not necessarily, because he was suspended for the remainder of his high school career doesn't mean it was his third violation. A second violation is suspension for the year which in Malek's case is the remainder of his high school career.
Based on everything else, had he been a junior he would have only been suspended for the year which indicates it was only his second violation.
If the Marquette Tribune article that Moomoo quoted is correct, then it was his third violation. Moomoo's quote says that a second suspension is for 11 games, and 11 games was his suspension last season.
"....the specific basketball-related penalty assessed to the second offense of a Category B violation is exactly 11 games."
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Is it too late for him to join the cross country team and be suspended?
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Just when buzz was this close to getting some real diversity on this team, i.e. someone whose first name doesn't start with a J or a D.
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If its weed or alcohol like the article seems to indicate, I have no problem with him coming to Marquette. Buzz can whip that out of him.
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If its weed or alcohol like the article seems to indicate, I have no problem with him coming to Marquette. Buzz can whip that out of him.
Completely agree.
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If its weed or alcohol like the article seems to indicate, I have no problem with him coming to Marquette. Buzz can whip that out of him.
Agree - The number/percentage of kids in the MU student body who came to MU having drank alcohol/smoked weed a few times in high school is probably 50+%. To give Malek a chance at MU isn't some crazy flyer type of situation because he's a basketball player. Pretty sure he'll have learned a hard lesson missing his senior season of ball, and that if any coach can help mentor a kid toward a better life/behavior - Buzz is as good as any.
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Really?
Yeah, really. Plenty other players. Marquette has been down this road and it didn't end well. No reason for the risk. You don't get kicked off a team for being at a party.
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Agree - The number/percentage of kids in the MU student body who came to MU having drank alcohol/smoked weed a few times in high school is probably 50+%. To give Malek a chance at MU isn't some crazy flyer type of situation because he's a basketball player. Pretty sure he'll have learned a hard lesson missing his senior season of ball, and that if any coach can help mentor a kid toward a better life/behavior - Buzz is as good as any.
I would have thought he would have learned his lesson the first tim he was suspended. I think it's alarming that a kid with a scholarship to a big time D1 program can't get his sh*t together for his senior year. I don't expect a 4.0 and for him to be in the gym 24/7, but I would think staying out of trouble would be priority for him especially having a track record already.
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I guess I don't really care that the kid smokes weed and/or drinks. I care that he is stupid enough to get caught three times.
Once might be bad luck.
A second time could be...poor planning.
A third time means you're an idiot.
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If its weed or alcohol like the article seems to indicate, I have no problem with him coming to Marquette. Buzz can whip that out of him.
The problem isn't weed or alcohol, at least for me. The problem is that there were rules/conditions (fair or not) linked to Malek's participation in athletics. He knew what they were. He got CAUGHT violating them once and got a warning. He got CAUGHT a second time and got suspended. He got CAUGHT a third time and got kicked off the team for good. Unless he was the unluckiest guy in the world I think we can assume he has displayed little to no regard for rules or their consequences. That's a dangerous attitude to bring to a team.
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The problem isn't weed or alcohol, at least for me. The problem is that there were rules/conditions (fair or not) linked to Malek's participation in athletics. He knew what they were. He got CAUGHT violating them once and got a warning. He got CAUGHT a second time and got suspended. He got CAUGHT a third time and got kicked off the team for good. Unless he was the unluckiest guy in the world I think we can assume he has displayed little to no regard for rules or their consequences. That's a dangerous attitude to bring to a team.
I agree with this. The attitude is definitely concerning. However, I have a lot of faith in Buzz's coaching style. If there is anyone who can train that out of kid, it is Buzz. Put him on a short leash and first sign of trouble, he's gone.
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The problem isn't weed or alcohol, at least for me. The problem is that there were rules/conditions (fair or not) linked to Malek's participation in athletics. He knew what they were. He got CAUGHT violating them once and got a warning. He got CAUGHT a second time and got suspended. He got CAUGHT a third time and got kicked off the team for good. Unless he was the unluckiest guy in the world I think we can assume he has displayed little to no regard for rules or their consequences. That's a dangerous attitude to bring to a team.
"That's a dangerous attitude to bring to a team."
Maybe, maybe not...kids are dumb and often don't think about the consequences to their actions. MH is not the first kid to be suspended from athletics for being dumb.
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The problem isn't weed or alcohol, at least for me. The problem is that there were rules/conditions (fair or not) linked to Malek's participation in athletics. He knew what they were. He got CAUGHT violating them once and got a warning. He got CAUGHT a second time and got suspended. He got CAUGHT a third time and got kicked off the team for good. Unless he was the unluckiest guy in the world I think we can assume he has displayed little to no regard for rules or their consequences. That's a dangerous attitude to bring to a team.
This.
Like 4ever said, adios.
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Time to cut bait, Buzz had enough problems with kids in the past, not going to go over them, but they were bad. So why bring in another problem, move on.
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I guess I don't really care that the kid smokes weed and/or drinks. I care that he is stupid enough to get caught three times.
Once might be bad luck.
A second time could be...poor planning.
A third time means you're an idiot.
I agree and if it was for smoking weed I wonder how he got caught. Did he show up to school/practice high, did he bring a bag to school, did his parents catch him stoned and tell his coach, or what? To me, a senior in high school smoking is not a big deal but to get caught three times is ridiculous. He's got to be smarter than that.
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In this type of situation, you really have to ask yourself: What would Coach Bobby Finstock do?
The answer: If the kid can help you win basketball games, bring him in.
We can all ride in here on our high horses and claim that Marquette is above bringing in potentially risky players, but if Buzz was bringing in choir boys and finishing around .500, we'd be calling for his termination. Buzz's job is to win basketball games and if this kid can help him do that, bring him in and help him get straightened out. If he's a reach as a Big East player or doesn't want to straighten up, cut him loose.
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In this type of situation, you really have to ask yourself: What would Coach Bobby Finstock do?
The answer: If the kid can help you win basketball games, bring him in.
We can all ride in here on our high horses and claim that Marquette is above bringing in potentially risky players, but if Buzz was bringing in choir boys and finishing around .500, we'd be calling for his termination. Buzz's job is to win basketball games and if this kid can help him do that, bring him in and help him get straightened out. If he's a reach as a Big East player or doesn't want to straighten up, cut him loose.
Buzz and MU will have no problem winning games without Malek Harris.
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I trust Buzz to make the right call, either way it goes.
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I'm just throwing this out there as a parent of a high school football player.
According to the rules in Wisconsin (and I know Illinois could be different), if my son is at a party where someone, somewhere is drinking or smoking weed and the party gets busted, my son is guilty and punished.. Even if he was doing nothing and was at the other end of the house/apartment/building and was completely unaware of the behavior, he is guilty.
I don't think anyone actually knows the circumstances of what happened here but we do know this is not a Montralle Clark-type situation.
Just my opinion but I think we need to take a step back and calm down a little. Should Malek been a little more careful regarding who he hangs with and what he does given he already had an issue? No doubt, absolutely. Is this the kind of thing that should warrant losing his shot to attend MU? Not so sure. As we all know, teenage males are usually NOT shinning examples of good judgment (I know I wasn't...) and I think the punishment needs to fit the crime. Does he deserve the same treatment (relating to MU) as Clark?
Finally, I will defer to others on this one but...what serves this young man better? Kicking him out before he gets here or having him attend a university like MU where he can be exposed to values, morals and life-lessons that he may never have been exposed to before?
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This has gotten completely out of hand. We don't know what the violation was. One person says weed, one drinking, another is hair pyrotechnics.
Here's what we know- The guy screwed up, and allegedly for the third time. He'll have to deal with the consequences. Buzz has a decision to make, and we'll know soon enough.
All this speculation serves no purpose and it reflects very poorly on MU.
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Ask yourself what Coach K would do? Probably cut bait.
Don't know all the facts, but if this is his third offense with alcohol/drugs and Buzz decides to bring him and give him a full schollie privilege, then redshirt the guy the first year to see how he adjusts in college. That should answer the character question. He likely would not play much his first year anyway.
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If you get busted in dorm room three times with drugs and/or alcohol three times while at MU, you are kicked out permanently. Regardless if you are participating or not.
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If you get busted in dorm room three times with drugs and/or alcohol three times while at MU, you are kicked out permanently. Regardless if you are participating or not.
How recent is that rule?
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If you get busted in dorm room three times with drugs and/or alcohol three times while at MU, you are kicked out permanently. Regardless if you are participating or not.
I'm not sure on this one. I was an RA and plenty of students got caught with alcohol in their rooms more than three times. They kept coming back. Drugs, yes. But not sure about alcohol. Things could have changed.
Either way, it doesn't matter in this case. He is not a marquette student, he's not even signed. Our student code doesn't apply to him until he is on campus.
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I'm not sure on this one. I was an RA and plenty of students got caught with alcohol in their rooms more than three times. They kept coming back. Drugs, yes. But not sure about alcohol. Things could have changed.
Either way, it doesn't matter in this case. He is not a marquette student, he's not even signed. Our student code doesn't apply to him until he is on campus.
I'm positive on it and saved the letters from ORL. This was...2005-2006 academic year, and it was all alcohol.
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This has gotten completely out of hand. We don't know what the violation was. One person says weed, one drinking, another is hair pyrotechnics.
Back in my altar boy days the kid in front of me looked up at the clock to see if it was time to march out to the altar. The back of his head connected with my candle and started his Brylcreem-laced hair on fire. Just sayin' this could have been an accident.
Oh, and we put it out with holy water.
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Ask yourself what Coach K would do? Probably cut bait.
Is that why Buzz walks around with a "WWKD?" bracelet?
Seriously, I don't think we should necessarily ask that question at all. Buzz isn't Coach K and Marquette isn't Duke.
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Ask yourself what Coach K would do? Probably cut bait.
Buzz also isn't cornering a student reporter in the locker room and degrading him in front of the whole team.
Coach K is not a measuring stick nor should he be.
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Ask yourself what Coach K would do? Probably cut bait.
If the kid was a good enough player, Coach K would keep him.
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Can someone reconcile this article with this tweet?
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 2h
Word on 2014 recruit Harris is nothing illegal warranted suspension. Made a mistake. Not indication of who he is. #mubb
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Wrong place, wrong time. Like I said a little earlier, he MAY have been doing nothing wrong but was in the vicinity of those who were.
He's a kid. It happens.
Can someone reconcile this article with this tweet?
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 2h
Word on 2014 recruit Harris is nothing illegal warranted suspension. Made a mistake. Not indication of who he is. #mubb
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Back in my altar boy days the kid in front of me looked up at the clock to see if it was time to march out to the altar. The back of his head connected with my candle and started his Brylcreem-laced hair on fire. Just sayin' this could have been an accident.
Oh, and we put it out with holy water.
Similar thing happened to my daughter during a candlelight vigil. Except I put it out with my bare hands. That Mom instinct kicks in so quick I didn't even realize what I was doing until the whole thing was over.
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Ultimately Buzz will have to decide based on the specifics of this kids circumstances. We can speculate all we want based on the general guidelines in the code of conduct, but the specifics of the infraction matter. Even when I was in high school I remember thinking the expectations were not realistic and the punishments were draconian. And being in high school does not always afford you the freedom that you have in college - you cannot dump all your partying friends your senior year and make all new friends from the teetotalers club. If your friends are all going to a party, your options are to stay home by yourself, go and not drink, or go and drink. The latter two are not very different in the code of conduct, but I think going to a party and not drinking is actually being very responsible.
This is one instance where privacy laws can cut the wrong way, and if Buzz does allow the kid to enroll, I hope they will somehow make public the reasoning so fans can form intelligent opinions about whether that will harm the program's reputation.
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Can someone reconcile this article with this tweet?
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 2h
Word on 2014 recruit Harris is nothing illegal warranted suspension. Made a mistake. Not indication of who he is. #mubb
This is interesting. Drinking under age or weed, period, is illegal. If this is nothing more than wrong place, wrong time it changes things.
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Buzz also isn't cornering a student reporter in the locker room and degrading him in front of the whole team.
Coach K is not a measuring stick nor should he be.
Hmmm. Recall an incident with Buzz and McIlvane. Not defending Coach K, but most "basketball gurus" would tell you that Coach K is definitely a measuring stick.... NC's, grad rate, pros turned out, recruitment success, Coach of National Teams, etc. Guys like Knight, Vitale, Raftery, Lakers management, CBS sports etc. and the list goes on rave about K. You cannot argue with his success, and he has done it without cheating.
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If we kick off all the hoops players who like weed...we would have plenty of open spots. Don't kid yourself. Not judging anyone, just pointing out a truth. MU is no better or worse and a coach can only do so much...
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Hmmm. Recall an incident with Buzz and McIlvane. Not defending Coach K, but most "basketball gurus" would tell you that Coach K is definitely a measuring stick.... NC's, grad rate, pros turned out, recruitment success, Coach of National Teams, etc. Guys like Knight, Vitale, Raftery, Lakers management, CBS sports etc. and the list goes on rave about K. You cannot argue with his success, and he has done it without cheating.
Just like Wooden, huh?
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Can someone reconcile this article with this tweet?
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 2h
Word on 2014 recruit Harris is nothing illegal warranted suspension. Made a mistake. Not indication of who he is. #mubb
In the previous, now locked, thread, I matched the above statement with the school's disciplinary code. If the above is true, then he was at a party where alcohol/weed/tobacco products were being used.
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Hmmm. Recall an incident with Buzz and McIlvane. Not defending Coach K, but most "basketball gurus" would tell you that Coach K is definitely a measuring stick.... NC's, grad rate, pros turned out, recruitment success, Coach of National Teams, etc. Guys like Knight, Vitale, Raftery, Lakers management, CBS sports etc. and the list goes on rave about K. You cannot argue with his success, and he has done it without cheating.
Duke and Bama have shown if you get really good, you can cheat and not get prosecuted.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/former-duke-basketball-player-lance-thomas-settles-jewelry-lawsuit
So do not assign them the moral high ground because they can get away with it.
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What happened about caring for the whole person? We are so quick to cut bait on a kid that may or may not have had a lapse in judgement that may or may not have involved being around drugs or alcohol. Personally, if the kid has some issues to straighten out I can't imagine a better program or coach than Buzz and MU. Buzz and Larry will do the right thing and until than this is all just a giant circle jerk for you guys.
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What happened about caring for the whole person? We are so quick to cut bait on a kid that may or may not have had a lapse in judgement that may or may not have involved being around drugs or alcohol. Personally, if the kid has some issues to straighten out I can't imagine a better program or coach than Buzz and MU. Buzz and Larry will do the right thing and until than this is all just a giant circle jerk for you guys.
+ 1,000,000
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If you get busted in dorm room three times with drugs and/or alcohol three times while at MU, you are kicked out permanently. Regardless if you are participating or not.
Being a current student here thats just not true at all...Secondly im in the "keep Malek around" camp. Hes a 17 year old male. 17 year old males make mistakes and it sounds like this really isnt that bad of an issue.
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If you get busted in dorm room three times with drugs and/or alcohol three times while at MU, you are kicked out permanently. Regardless if you are participating or not.
Don't know about drugs, but up to two years ago if you got busted three times for alcohol you only got kicked out of the dorm.
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This is one instance where privacy laws can cut the wrong way, and if Buzz does allow the kid to enroll, I hope they will somehow make public the reasoning so fans can form intelligent opinions about whether that will harm the program's reputation.
Like that would ever be possible - when many of the fans here have already formed their "intelligent position".
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What happened about caring for the whole person? We are so quick to cut bait on a kid that may or may not have had a lapse in judgement that may or may not have involved being around drugs or alcohol. Personally, if the kid has some issues to straighten out I can't imagine a better program or coach than Buzz and MU. Buzz and Larry will do the right thing and until than this is all just a giant circle jerk for you guys.
A few weeks ago, Gerry DiNardo was on The Score discussing the disciplining of college athletes. His overall stance was that it's very easy for outsiders to say that players who get into trouble should simply be kicked off the team and out of school. However, when he was coaching at LSU he'd recruit kids from "the poorest of the poor" neighborhoods in the country and he knew that football was their only chance to not only escape that neighborhood, but to bring their family out of that neighborhood and to provide a better life for the next generations of his family. That doesn't necessarily mean making millions playing in the NFL, but it means having a chance to earn a college degree and to make an honest living as a teacher or a coach or a doctor or a businessman or whatever. Many fans don't really take into consideration that college athletes often don't have a stable support system at home and many had up-bringings that we couldn't even begin to understand. If a 20-year-old from a troubled family gets into a fight or gets caught with weed and is subsequently thrown out of school, what happens to him then?
Admittedly, I don't know anything about Malek Harris' homelife and I'm not saying that this applies to him in any way. I'm just pointing out that there's more to consider than just giving someone the boot for getting into trouble.
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What happened about caring for the whole person? We are so quick to cut bait on a kid that may or may not have had a lapse in judgement that may or may not have involved being around drugs or alcohol. Personally, if the kid has some issues to straighten out I can't imagine a better program or coach than Buzz and MU. Buzz and Larry will do the right thing and until than this is all just a giant circle jerk for you guys.
+1000
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What happened about caring for the whole person? We are so quick to cut bait on a kid that may or may not have had a lapse in judgement that may or may not have involved being around drugs or alcohol. Personally, if the kid has some issues to straighten out I can't imagine a better program or coach than Buzz and MU. Buzz and Larry will do the right thing and until than this is all just a giant circle jerk for you guys.
Let me just play devil's advocate here. Actions have consequences and playing NCAA basketball is a privilege. Telling a kid that they can't play basketball here, at least for a short while, doesn't show a lack of caring for the whole person. It is the consequence for the action. That doesn't mean that Buzz should just drop him, but try to help him. Recommend a Juco, or a prep school, for next year. If that's not an option that Malek wants to take, help find him another home that will.
(BTW, I really don't know enough to have an opinion...I trust that Buzz will do what is best.)
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I trust Buzz. And personally, I am not qualified to throw the first stone. So, good luck, Malek. Take this as an opportunity to learn and grow.
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Hey PTM, I did a bump of smack in your living last night while you were asleep.
Strike 1
(http://barfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/health_umpire.jpg)
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Hey PTM, I did a bump of smack in your living last night while you were asleep.
Strike 1
I don't think you can do a bump of smack. You're either chasing the dragon or you're straight.
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I trust Buzz. And personally, I am not qualified to throw the first stone. So, good luck, Malek. Take this as an opportunity to learn and grow.
I am here^ right now regarding this issue.
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Hey PTM, I did a bump of smack in your living last night while you were asleep.
Strike 1
(http://barfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/health_umpire.jpg)
Ah Yes, Frank Dreben--and who can forget Nordberg?
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Duke and Bama have shown if you get really good, you can cheat and not get prosecuted.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/former-duke-basketball-player-lance-thomas-settles-jewelry-lawsuit
So do not assign them the moral high ground because they can get away with it.
Not aware of any evidence that Duke cheats. If you can throw that out there, then you can also throw out that MU cheats. Not aware that either school has a rep for cheating.
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What happened about caring for the whole person? We are so quick to cut bait on a kid that may or may not have had a lapse in judgement that may or may not have involved being around drugs or alcohol. Personally, if the kid has some issues to straighten out I can't imagine a better program or coach than Buzz and MU. Buzz and Larry will do the right thing and until than this is all just a giant circle jerk for you guys.
This. Plus whatever happened to the virtue of forgiveness? Everyone is so quick to judge, condemn, etc., someone for life.
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ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES
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ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES
Agreed. That consequence is being suspended for his entire senior season.
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ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES
Exactly. Especially when said actions are not known, and we as anonymous internet basketball fanboys have absolutely no say in delivering out said consequences.
+1 for caps too man, really hammered home your point.
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Exactly. Especially when said actions are not known, and we as anonymous internet basketball fanboys have absolutely no say in delivering out said consequences.
+1 for caps too man, really hammered home your point.
But our own students heard from the brother of one of his party friends that he set a chick's hair on fire! CONSEQUENCES!
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Do we know for sure that said hair was on the chick's head?
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Do we know for sure that said hair was on the chick's head?
Good question. Guess we'll have to go to the video he recorded of it. Which in and of itself answers the question, doesn't it?
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I mean we could be talkin' a whole new ballgame here, hey?
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Do we know for sure that said hair was on the chick's head?
4ever = ZFB?
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Don't know about drugs, but up to two years ago if you got busted three times for alcohol you only got kicked out of the dorm.
I meant kicked out of the dorm.
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Being a current student here thats just not true at all...Secondly im in the "keep Malek around" camp. Hes a 17 year old male. 17 year old males make mistakes and it sounds like this really isnt that bad of an issue.
Open up your student handbook, three times and you are out of the dorms.
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Hey PTM, I did a bump of smack in your living last night while you were asleep.
Strike 1
Ask TallTitan about getting punished for just being around.
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Not aware of any evidence that Duke cheats. If you can throw that out there, then you can also throw out that MU cheats. Not aware that either school has a rep for cheating.
Read the freaking link I included again.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/former-duke-basketball-player-lance-thomas-settles-jewelry-lawsuit
“We have reached a settlement,” Mike Bowers, the attorney for Rafaello & Co. wrote in an email. “I cannot make further comment."
Thomas purchased $97,800 worth of custom jewelry on Dec. 21, 2009, while the team was on winter break in the middle of his senior year. He made a $30,000 down payment and signed a purchase agreement that said he would pay the remaining $67,800 within 15 days.
Rafaello & Co. filed a lawsuit in January after repeated attempts to collect payment. Bowers confirmed to the News & Observer last week that his client had declined to speak with the NCAA about a possible extra benefits investigation.
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This event should have made Thomas ineligible for the season. The fact that he played, and Duke won the national Championship should have voided all those games.
http://www.sbnation.com/2012/10/1/3440196/lance-thomas-duke-lawsuit-ncaa-punishment
In the end the NCAA did nothing so Duke wins
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/22170661/ncaa-duke-faces-no-punishment-in-lance-thomas-jewelry-case
And Duke also did not get punished in the Corey Magette situation (you can Google that).
So let's be clear with our words.
"Duke has never been caught doing wrong" is an accurate statement.
Do not confuse it with "Duke does no wrong."
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Read the freaking link I included again.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/former-duke-basketball-player-lance-thomas-settles-jewelry-lawsuit
“We have reached a settlement,” Mike Bowers, the attorney for Rafaello & Co. wrote in an email. “I cannot make further comment."
Thomas purchased $97,800 worth of custom jewelry on Dec. 21, 2009, while the team was on winter break in the middle of his senior year. He made a $30,000 down payment and signed a purchase agreement that said he would pay the remaining $67,800 within 15 days.
Rafaello & Co. filed a lawsuit in January after repeated attempts to collect payment. Bowers confirmed to the News & Observer last week that his client had declined to speak with the NCAA about a possible extra benefits investigation.
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This event should have made Thomas ineligible for the season. The fact that he played, and Duke won the national Championship should have voided all those games.
http://www.sbnation.com/2012/10/1/3440196/lance-thomas-duke-lawsuit-ncaa-punishment
In the end the NCAA did nothing so Duke wins
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/22170661/ncaa-duke-faces-no-punishment-in-lance-thomas-jewelry-case
And Duke also did not get punished in the Corey Magette situation (you can Google that).
So let's be clear with our words.
"Duke has never been caught doing wrong" is an accurate statement.
Do not confuse it with "Duke does no wrong."
Thank you for pointing that out. So Duke, and by association Coach K cheats. Don't know if Coach K did any of that. By the way, Buzz was suspended for a game for a T-shirt violation committed by an Asst. who was fired. So I guess the point is that Buzz is a Saint and Coach K is not. I am Ok with that. But many would consider Coach K a measuring stick--that was my point.
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Open up your student handbook, three times and you are out of the dorms.
Damn. I didn't get out of the dorm and into an apartment until junior year. If only I had known...
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Thank you for pointing that out. So Duke, and by association Coach K cheats. Don't know if Coach K did any of that. By the way, Buzz was suspended for a game for a T-shirt violation committed by an Asst. who was fired. So I guess the point is that Buzz is a Saint and Coach K is not. I am Ok with that. But many would consider Coach K a measuring stick--that was my point.
Lance Thomas bought $100k of Jewerly in the middle of the season using a loan (violation of NCAA rules). We are to believe Duke did not know. No one at Duke gets in trouble. Do not have to vacate the NC. Corey Magette took cash from a coach. Duke gets nothing (when this happens to Calipari at Mass and Memphis the NCAA crucifies him and his programs).
Reminding me again what we are measuring K against ... running a clean program or getting caught?
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. But many would consider Coach K a measuring stick--that was my point.
Agree 100%.
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When I was in high school, kids on my hockey team would always get suspended for something like drinking, so they'd just join the soccer team or track team and have their suspensions apply to that sport. It was a neat loophole.
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What happened about caring for the whole person? We are so quick to cut bait on a kid that may or may not have had a lapse in judgement that may or may not have involved being around drugs or alcohol. Personally, if the kid has some issues to straighten out I can't imagine a better program or coach than Buzz and MU. Buzz and Larry will do the right thing and until than this is all just a giant circle jerk for you guys.
Only thing that really needs to be said.
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It's one of those "the school won't say, but these facts fit this situation" kind of deal.
Sounds multiple to me
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It is true that Harris is just a kid and kids do stupid things. He may or may not come from a poor home. There are plenty of kids in college basketball with situations that are somewhat similar and they were able to get through their high school careers without being suspended. I think being caught three times would make it unlikely he would survive Buzz's demands at MU and would be very likely to be gone in a short time anyways. When Buzz was under attack for past player violations, I defended him saying how was he suppose to know what was going to happen. Assuming the players did not have a past history he should be given a break. You can attack me for being hardline, but if he brings in Malek, I no longer trust in Buzz's judgement.
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It is true that Harris is just a kid and kids do stupid things. He may or may not come from a poor home. There are plenty of kids in college basketball with situations that are somewhat similar and they were able to get through their high school careers without being suspended. I think being caught three times would make it unlikely he would survive Buzz's demands at MU and would be very likely to be gone in a short time anyways. When Buzz was under attack for past player violations, I defended him saying how was he suppose to know what was going to happen. Assuming the players did not have a past history he should be given a break. You can attack me for being hardline, but if he brings in Malek, I no longer trust in Buzz's judgement.
I think it is time we crucify the Packer's brass as well. Bringing in an admitted criminal like Donald Driver. What good could become if it?
BTW, Buzz is really hurt that you may not trust him anymore ::)
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I think it is time we crucify the Packer's brass as well. Bringing in an admitted criminal like Donald Driver. What good could become if it?
BTW, Buzz is really hurt that you may not trust him anymore ::)
I don't believe the professional vs college comparison is apt. A professional team's sole goal is to win games, championships, etc. A college program is part of a university, not a separate entity. Athletic programs to a higher authority with goals that don't always mesh with that authority.
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I guess I don't really care that the kid smokes weed and/or drinks. I care that he is stupid enough to get caught three times.
Once might be bad luck.
A second time could be...poor planning.
A third time means you're an idiot.
Nailed it... nice work!
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I don't believe the professional vs college comparison is apt. A professional team's sole goal is to win games, championships, etc. A college program is part of a university, not a separate entity. Athletic programs to a higher authority with goals that don't always mesh with that authority.
While you are correct, I think his point was that just because an individual may have made a mistake in the past does not mean he cannot turn it around and figure things out. Donald Driver turned out to be a model citizen and a very good role model with the Green Bay Packers despite having a criminal background. Malek is 17 years old. I do not know the details as to what Malek did or did not do and I cannot pretend I do know the details. Therefore, if Buzz is willing to bring Malek into the program, I have to trust that it was not something like lighting a girl's hair on fire. If he decides it's not worth it and says good luck but you aren't welcome to Marquette then I will assume it was something worse than just being in the same house as underage drinkers. Time will tell.
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While you are correct, I think his point was that just because an individual may have made a mistake in the past does not mean he cannot turn it around and figure things out. Donald Driver turned out to be a model citizen and a very good role model with the Green Bay Packers despite having a criminal background. Malek is 17 years old. I do not know the details as to what Malek did or did not do and I cannot pretend I do know the details. Therefore, if Buzz is willing to bring Malek into the program, I have to trust that it was not something like lighting a girl's hair on fire. If he decides it's not worth it and says good luck but you aren't welcome to Marquette then I will assume it was something worse than just being in the same house as underage drinkers. Time will tell.
Of course, that is true. Gets back to the questions earlier in the week, how many chances does someone get. Some kids figure it out without any chances, some after 1, 2, 3, 10 chances. Some are willing to keep giving chances, others are not.
Buzz is the President of the basketball program, he reports to a President of the Athletic Department who reports to a president of the school. Certainly a level of added complexity. Even pro teams go through these things, but to a lessor level. How many teams passed on Randy Moss because he had issues? Buzz will do what he does and the accountability will ultimately be on him and the kid. Hopefully this is all about nothing and he was just caught multiple times doing something silly. If I'm Buzz, and I put my neck out I make darn sure the kid doesn't mess up because ultimately it comes back on Buzz....fair or not, that's the deal, especially when there are red flags or suspensions or the like the background. Fair or unfair, that's the deal.
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nm.
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Of course, that is true. Gets back to the questions earlier in the week, how many chances does someone get. Some kids figure it out without any chances, some after 1, 2, 3, 10 chances. Some are willing to keep giving chances, others are not.
Some have been banned 1, 2, 3, 10 times, how many chances should they get?
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Some have been banned 1, 2, 3, 10 times, how many chances should they get?
Great question. Especially considering the millions of dollars, media exposure, etc, that posters at MU Scoop are part of bringing in for the university. Personally, I'm glad Keefe is back.
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Some have been banned 1, 2, 3, 10 times, how many chances should they get?
Hilarious
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Some have been banned 1, 2, 3, 10 times, how many chances should they get?
Perfect. Exposing the "hypocrisy" of the hypocrisy crusader.
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It is true that Harris is just a kid and kids do stupid things. He may or may not come from a poor home. There are plenty of kids in college basketball with situations that are somewhat similar and they were able to get through their high school careers without being suspended. I think being caught three times would make it unlikely he would survive Buzz's demands at MU and would be very likely to be gone in a short time anyways. When Buzz was under attack for past player violations, I defended him saying how was he suppose to know what was going to happen. Assuming the players did not have a past history he should be given a break. You can attack me for being hardline, but if he brings in Malek, I no longer trust in Buzz's judgement.
But maybe part of the reason Buzz is bringing Harris in is because he sees a kid who is a hard worker that he feels he can develop into a better man. Yes, obviously basketball is a factor, but Buzz didn't shy away from Jimmy's background, or Otule when he discovered he only had one eye, or Junior who went through so much hardship. Yes, this stuff is Malek's choice, but possibly Buzz sees a kid who can succeed if he is guided to make better choices. I don't know the full story here, only what little has come out, but if we're maligning him for enjoying party favors, half this board should probably be permanently banned.
I wouldn't blame Buzz if he does shy away (maybe he already talked to Harris about his previous bans and said it can't happen again) and I wouldn't blame him if he took the kid (maybe thinking that with the right direction he can keep his nose clean). I don't know enough about the situation or personal relationship. I will trust our coach to make the right decision, but will also definitely hope that Harris doesn't have similar habitual trouble once and if he gets here.
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Some have been banned 1, 2, 3, 10 times, how many chances should they get?
Depends on how good they are at what they do.
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It is true that Harris is just a kid and kids do stupid things. He may or may not come from a poor home. There are plenty of kids in college basketball with situations that are somewhat similar and they were able to get through their high school careers without being suspended. I think being caught three times would make it unlikely he would survive Buzz's demands at MU and would be very likely to be gone in a short time anyways. When Buzz was under attack for past player violations, I defended him saying how was he suppose to know what was going to happen. Assuming the players did not have a past history he should be given a break. You can attack me for being hardline, but if he brings in Malek, I no longer trust in Buzz's judgement.
You are going to begin to distrust Buzz's judgement because he signs a kid who committed a violation in high school without having any idea what it is? I understand being skeptical or disagreeing but to lose all trust in his judgement seems a little rash
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Depends on how good they are at what they do.
Keefe is very good, that's why they let him back in I am convinced.
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But maybe part of the reason Buzz is bringing Harris in is because he sees a kid who is a hard worker that he feels he can develop into a better man. Yes, obviously basketball is a factor, but Buzz didn't shy away from Jimmy's background, or Otule when he discovered he only had one eye, or Junior who went through so much hardship. Yes, this stuff is Malek's choice, but possibly Buzz sees a kid who can succeed if he is guided to make better choices. I don't know the full story here, only what little has come out, but if we're maligning him for enjoying party favors, half this board should probably be permanently banned.
I wouldn't blame Buzz if he does shy away (maybe he already talked to Harris about his previous bans and said it can't happen again) and I wouldn't blame him if he took the kid (maybe thinking that with the right direction he can keep his nose clean). I don't know enough about the situation or personal relationship. I will trust our coach to make the right decision, but will also definitely hope that Harris doesn't have similar habitual trouble once and if he gets here.
I think it is safe to assume that Butler's home environment was worse than Harris's and I am not aware that Butler ever got into any real trouble. It is not a question of whether Harris gets another chance it is a question of whether he gets the chance at MU. Harris of course could become a very successful person, but he is not starting out well. He also could come to MU and flame out without embarrassing the University. That has to be balanced against the potential of Malek doing something that brings embarrassment to the University. I just think Buzz is better off bringing in some one that is less of a known risk. It would be interesting to see who on this site objected to the recruiting of Simeon Bowers. There were several posters that said MU should not recruit him because he was trouble in high school. I said people can change and if he stayed out of trouble in junior college I did not have a problem with Buzz recruiting him. That is the same feeling I have about Malek. MU can recruit him if he goes somewhere else first and demonstrates that he has change.
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That is the same feeling I have about Malek. MU can recruit him if he goes somewhere else first and demonstrates that he has change.
The Cinmeon Bowers comparison is fair, and a year in prep school or JUCO wouldn't surprise me at all, but I'm not going to lose faith in our coach if Harris were to come here as a freshman. It's a bit of a different circumstance as we've already taken a commitment from Harris. My guess is his presence (or lack thereof) on Friday will be very telling. Either way, I trust our staff to make the right call on a kid they are very familiar with.
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The most likely of downside scenarios in taking a chance on someone who has already been given multiple chances is that if they f*c& up on your watch, there is going to be plenty of people who question the judgement in bringing that person to campus. If he gets busted once for weed, drinking, academics (the meaningful, but relatively petty, stuff)... so what. There will be some hemming and hawing about how so-and-so was a known risk, and the "I told you so" police will be out in full force for a few days (the ones wearing cardinal & white might linger around like a drum circle for few weeks), but most people without an agenda will simply be "meh." Now if you have multiple incidents by that person's junior or senior year, it will start to reflect poorly on those who took the chance to begin with, and the media will drag MU through the mud a bit more, but at the end of the day, all will be forgiven & forgotten and perhaps the whiny I-told-you-so's might even end up acknowledging some credit due for giving an opportunity to someone who didn't have one.
However, if that same person commits a crime, causes injury, and/or does something to incur substantial civil liability - just once - that stain won't wash away so easily and the PR dept. better look at making some new hires... but that's not even the worst of it because even though the University will still be sued (just as it would if the kid had been a clean-nosed, straight-A student from Naperville), the difference here is that the words "known risk" will be drilled into every nook of each juror's brain by the time open statements conclude, and even if the previous f*c&-ups have no relation to the charges, juries aren't very sympathetic when the perception is that any red flag was ignored.
That said, the kid can choose to right his own ship anytime, and he could very well go four years without so much as stepping on an ant. The question is whether the benefit outweighs the risk in this situation understanding, of course, that MU has a lot more to lose than your average program like Montana, and certainly can't afford the kind of hit that schools like UNLV can absorb.
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Damn. I didn't get out of the dorm and into an apartment until junior year. If only I had known...
But how many times is needed to get kicked out of the UNIVERSITY?
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I think it is safe to assume that Butler's home environment was worse than Harris's and I am not aware that Butler ever got into any real trouble. It is not a question of whether Harris gets another chance it is a question of whether he gets the chance at MU. Harris of course could become a very successful person, but he is not starting out well. He also could come to MU and flame out without embarrassing the University. That has to be balanced against the potential of Malek doing something that brings embarrassment to the University. I just think Buzz is better off bringing in some one that is less of a known risk. It would be interesting to see who on this site objected to the recruiting of Simeon Bowers. There were several posters that said MU should not recruit him because he was trouble in high school. I said people can change and if he stayed out of trouble in junior college I did not have a problem with Buzz recruiting him. That is the same feeling I have about Malek. MU can recruit him if he goes somewhere else first and demonstrates that he has change.
Why can't he demonstrate he has changed here? Is a juco or Marquette in a better position to be that agent of change for Malek? Again we are basing everything on no actual knowledge of anything other than he was suspended for a year. If we are denying a young man an opportunity to better himself because we are concerned about public perception should he make another mistake(a mistake of which we don't know what it is and didn't happen while with us)....we should not be in the business of educating young people at all.
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The point is why should MU take the risk? Because he can dribble, shoot, and pass a basketball better than most D1 recruits? BFD
Harris will have the opportunity, at some other schools,to play basketball on scholarship. Call me hard ass, old fart, or just plain principled, but I don't see the benefit of signing off on this kid for Buzz, Larry, or MU. At the very least here, Harris has demonstrated a disregard for following rules. Take a pass.
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The most likely of downside scenarios in taking a chance on someone who has already been given multiple chances is that if they f*c& up on your watch, there is going to be plenty of people who question the judgement in bringing that person to campus. If he gets busted once for weed, drinking, academics (the meaningful, but relatively petty, stuff)... so what. There will be some hemming and hawing about how so-and-so was a known risk, and the "I told you so" police will be out in full force for a few days (the ones wearing cardinal & white might linger around like a drum circle for few weeks), but most people without an agenda will simply be "meh." Now if you have multiple incidents by that person's junior or senior year, it will start to reflect poorly on those who took the chance to begin with, and the media will drag MU through the mud a bit more, but at the end of the day, all will be forgiven & forgotten and perhaps the whiny I-told-you-so's might even end up acknowledging some credit due for giving an opportunity to someone who didn't have one.
However, if that same person commits a crime, causes injury, and/or does something to incur substantial civil liability - just once - that stain won't wash away so easily and the PR dept. better look at making some new hires... but that's not even the worst of it because even though the University will still be sued (just as it would if the kid had been a clean-nosed, straight-A student from Naperville), the difference here is that the words "known risk" will be drilled into every nook of each juror's brain by the time open statements conclude, and even if the previous f*c&-ups have no relation to the charges, juries aren't very sympathetic when the perception is that any red flag was ignored.
That said, the kid can choose to right his own ship anytime, and he could very well go four years without so much as stepping on an ant. The question is whether the benefit outweighs the risk in this situation understanding, of course, that MU has a lot more to lose than your average program like Montana, and certainly can't afford the kind of hit that schools like UNLV can absorb.
Benny the whole problem I have with your statement is the second paragraph, you are introducing a scenario that would cause MU problems regardless of a previous pattern of non-criminal behavior. Remember Malek has no criminal record that I'm aware of, additional focus on MU is going to be there if a crime of the nature you describe is committed regardless of the perpetrator's previous history. Look at the story with the Lax Bro, when that first broke when we just knew it was a student athlete, parts of the interwebs to the west and texts to my phone were asking which MU basketball player it was and how bad was it going to be. It's baked into reality for MU. I would be concerned if there were criminal activities involved, but I just don't see anything to get worked up over yet until I know more.
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Perfect. Exposing the "hypocrisy" of the hypocrisy crusader.
If I had said the kid didn't deserve a 2nd chance, you would be on to something....oh the irony.
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Again...what if it was WRONG PLACE, WRONG TIME? You bounce the kid for that????
Am I CERTAIN that if it were your kid in that position, and he lost his full ride for that, you would have a fit of Biblical proportions.
Buzz knows the true story. WE NEVER WILL, in all likelihood. So let's leave it to Buzz to assess this and decide what to do.
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Again...what if it was WRONG PLACE, WRONG TIME? You bounce the kid for that????
Am I CERTAIN that if it were your kid in that position, and he lost his full ride for that, you would have a fit of Biblical proportions.
Buzz knows the true story. WE NEVER WILL, in all likelihood. So let's leave it to Buzz to assess this and decide what to do.
No need TO SHOUT TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS. People have different opinions, and while mu03eng, Benny, 4ever, bilsu, TAMU, and Chicos may all have varying opinions, AND ALWAYS WILL, I think we can discuss this in a civil manner. In fact, I'm CERTAIN that we can. Clearly it will be up to Buzz (which may not have been the case 2 months ago), but I don't think anyone in here is having any real fits.
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
Well stated.
Agree completely.
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I wasn't yelling. Just having computer issue that wouldn't let me bold the text, so I substituted.
Also, I didn't say anyone was having a fit. I said that if your kid had gotten caught in a bad situation that he was unaware of and that wasn't his doing and lost his scholarship for it, it is a certainty that, as a parent, you, too, would have a fit.
I did want to emphasize those points but at no point did my post approach the level that could be considered uncivil, in my opinion.
No need TO SHOUT TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS. People have different opinions, and while mu03eng, Benny, 4ever, bilsu, TAMU, and Chicos may all have varying opinions, AND ALWAYS WILL, I think we can discuss this in a civil manner. In fact, I'm CERTAIN that we can. Clearly it will be up to Buzz (which may not have been the case 2 months ago), but I don't think anyone in here is having any real fits.
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
(http://img.pandawhale.com/36243-slow-clap-citizen-kane-orson-w-bJkI.gif)
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Why can't he demonstrate he has changed here? Is a juco or Marquette in a better position to be that agent of change for Malek? Again we are basing everything on no actual knowledge of anything other than he was suspended for a year. If we are denying a young man an opportunity to better himself because we are concerned about public perception should he make another mistake(a mistake of which we don't know what it is and didn't happen while with us)....we should not be in the business of educating young people at all.
mu03eng is all over this subject. Couldn't have written it better myself.
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I don't see Malek losing his scholarship. Roy Schmidt from Illinois bullseye has already stated that Harris will undoubetedly end up at Marquette.
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
Well written and welcome to the board.
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
Very, very well said.
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We can debate this all we want. What I know is that Buzz will never comment on it one way or another. We probably will not know if the kid is coming to MU until he signs here or somewhere else. If he goes somewhere else we will not know if that was Buzz's decision or if it was decided by some one above Buzz.
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
Completely agree with your thoughts...
...except the one where you say you have been a lurker here for a long time but are surprised by the sentiments shared in this thread. Pretty much any thread on this board that is longer than 2 pages ends up in Toontown. :D
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Benny the whole problem I have with your statement is the second paragraph, you are introducing a scenario that would cause MU problems regardless of a previous pattern of non-criminal behavior. Remember Malek has no criminal record that I'm aware of, additional focus on MU is going to be there if a crime of the nature you describe is committed regardless of the perpetrator's previous history. Look at the story with the Lax Bro, when that first broke when we just knew it was a student athlete, parts of the interwebs to the west and texts to my phone were asking which MU basketball player it was and how bad was it going to be. It's baked into reality for MU. I would be concerned if there were criminal activities involved, but I just don't see anything to get worked up over yet until I know more.
Well, at least you picked up on the drum circle allusion. But I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say, because I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying at all.
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Some of you should be ashamed of what you have written.
MH called Buzz directly to inform him what had happen, no middle man no IC, called Buzz straight up.
When it was being investigated he did not hide it, he was truthful at all times and he has taken full responsibility for this issue. He has already received consequences for his actions that are appropriate...imagine what missing his senior year of HS Basketball means to a young man like this.
I for one hope that he will be a Warrior next year and that he has the ability to made stronger by the program that Buzz will put him through. Imagine what his boot camp will be like next year???
Final comment to those who are all bent up about this..."lighten up Francis"
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Some of you should be ashamed of what you have written.
MH called Buzz directly to inform him what had happen, no middle man no IC, called Buzz straight up.
When it was being investigated he did not hide it, he was truthful at all times and he has taken full responsibility for this issue. He has already received consequences for his actions that are appropriate...imagine what missing his senior year of HS Basketball means to a young man like this.
I for one hope that he will be a Warrior next year and that he has the ability to made stronger by the program that Buzz will put him through. Imagine what his boot camp will be like next year???
Final comment to those who are all bent up about this..."lighten up Francis"
+1
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If I had said the kid didn't deserve a 2nd chance, you would be on to something....oh the irony.
I thought your point was that he had already been suspended "over and over again".
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...and who would better know about being suspended 'again and again'?
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Some of you should be ashamed of what you have written.
MH called Buzz directly to inform him what had happen, no middle man no IC, called Buzz straight up.
When it was being investigated he did not hide it, he was truthful at all times and he has taken full responsibility for this issue. He has already received consequences for his actions that are appropriate...imagine what missing his senior year of HS Basketball means to a young man like this.
I for one hope that he will be a Warrior next year and that he has the ability to made stronger by the program that Buzz will put him through. Imagine what his boot camp will be like next year???
Final comment to those who are all bent up about this..."lighten up Francis"
This is the end of the thread.
Thanks for the info, BigDaddy :)
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Some of you should be ashamed of what you have written.
MH called Buzz directly to inform him what had happen, no middle man no IC, called Buzz straight up.
When it was being investigated he did not hide it, he was truthful at all times and he has taken full responsibility for this issue. He has already received consequences for his actions that are appropriate...imagine what missing his senior year of HS Basketball means to a young man like this.
I for one hope that he will be a Warrior next year and that he has the ability to made stronger by the program that Buzz will put him through. Imagine what his boot camp will be like next year???
Final comment to those who are all bent up about this..."lighten up Francis"
Great to hear. Thanks.
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...and who would better know about being suspended 'again and again'?
(http://www.barrymccalvey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bazinga.jpg)
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Some of you should be ashamed of what you have written.
MH called Buzz directly to inform him what had happen, no middle man no IC, called Buzz straight up.
When it was being investigated he did not hide it, he was truthful at all times and he has taken full responsibility for this issue. He has already received consequences for his actions that are appropriate...imagine what missing his senior year of HS Basketball means to a young man like this.
I for one hope that he will be a Warrior next year and that he has the ability to made stronger by the program that Buzz will put him through. Imagine what his boot camp will be like next year???
Final comment to those who are all bent up about this..."lighten up Francis"
Big Daddy's never steered us wrong before, so presuming accuracy in the above... is there time for a GED from Moraine Valley and yet still get him on campus this fall?
Can you even do that???? (forgo your senior year of HS, get your GED, enroll in college early and "redshirt" what would have been your senior year of HS)
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I believe he is not suspended from high school, just from the basketball team. I would be surprised if a GED would qualify you to play college basketball. You have to take core courses and have a certain grade point. I am not sure, but I think GED courses are mostly pass fail.
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Thank you, big daddy.
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
Please post more often. We need this kind of fan on here.
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Big Daddy's never steered us wrong before, so presuming accuracy in the above... is there time for a GED from Moraine Valley and yet still get him on campus this fall?
Can you even do that???? (forgo your senior year of HS, get your GED, enroll in college early and "redshirt" what would have been your senior year of HS)
Benny, he didn't get kicked out of school completely, just suspended from b-ball team.
Edit: Or what Bilsu said ;D
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Some of you should be ashamed of what you have written.
MH called Buzz directly to inform him what had happen, no middle man no IC, called Buzz straight up.
When it was being investigated he did not hide it, he was truthful at all times and he has taken full responsibility for this issue. He has already received consequences for his actions that are appropriate...imagine what missing his senior year of HS Basketball means to a young man like this.
I for one hope that he will be a Warrior next year and that he has the ability to made stronger by the program that Buzz will put him through. Imagine what his boot camp will be like next year???
Final comment to those who are all bent up about this..."lighten up Francis"
Thank you. Some actual information on the situation instead of thoughtless hard-line sh*t slung against a wall. Turns out the kid isn't a monster! Who'da thunk. The "adios" crowd should definitlely be ashamed.
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I thought your point was that he had already been suspended "over and over again".
Then you have a reading problem....let me help you. Show me where I said he doesn't deserve another chance or where I said this isn't Buzz's call? In fact, when I opined that it might be how OTHERS were thinking (the kick him out crowd), you jumped my junk (in a loving, caressing manner) to say I didn't need to opine for others....that memory of your fading again? Furthermore, I said Buzz will be the one to ultimately decide and fair or not, he will be judged be it if something comes out of it...that's just the nature of the beast with situations like this. But I never said he should or shouldn't get a second chance. I did ask plenty of questions about the idea of second chances for folks in general, but please show me where I said this kid doesn't deserve one or does deserve one? I said neither:
"Of course, that is true. Gets back to the questions earlier in the week, how many chances does someone get. Some kids figure it out without any chances, some after 1, 2, 3, 10 chances. Some are willing to keep giving chances, others are not....Buzz will do what he does and the accountability will ultimately be on him and the kid".
"Could it be that some people simply don't want a kid at their school that has been suspended multiple times, including for his entire senior season? That is a known fact, that he has been suspended multiple times and for his entire season....correct? I'm just guessing, but that may be what some of those from the "kick him out" crowd are referencing."
"For the record, I'm not one to say he shouldn't be at MU, I'm merely offering an explanation of why some may not. Usually you get suspended it is supposed to be a wake up call, like being on probation.....keep clean, don't be stupid, eyes are on you. You keep doing things to the point you are suspended for an entire season, and you wonder if the message ever gets through. Some may wonder if it is worth taking on someone like that."
"Yup, all possible. Stated that before your post. Who knows. I can see both sides of the argument. "
"I'm curious for you and TAMU, if it is pot again....would you have zero tolerance of a threepeat at MU? Or would he get a 4 peat, 5 peat, etc? I'm just curious when the second chances run out for folks. By the way, I'm not against second chances, but I am definitely someone that believes 2nd chances are just that, 2nd chances."
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Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
People here pass judgment all the time. It ultimately comes down to WHO is passing the judgment and for WHOM they are passing it on. The same guys here that are blissfully excited about not passing judgment in this case, pass judgment all the time on others. It made me chuckle a bit with everyone doing the +1 on your message and realizing all they do (myself included) pass judgment on here daily. Again, WHO and to WHOM, is all that really matters here.
Go MU!!!
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People here pass judgment all the time. It ultimately comes down to WHO is passing the judgment and for WHOM they are passing it on. The same guys here that are blissfully excited about not passing judgment in this case, pass judgment all the time on others. It made me chuckle a bit with everyone doing the +1 on your message and realizing all they do (myself included) pass judgment on here daily. Again, WHO and to WHOM, is all that really matters here.
Go MU!!!
I can't believe I'm getting sucked in by this again, but there is a HUGE difference between passing judgement in a vacuum of information and passing judgement with a lot of information in front of you.
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I can't believe I'm getting sucked in by this again, but there is a HUGE difference between passing judgement in a vacuum of information and passing judgement with a lot of information in front of you.
I'm sure Chicos will say something about "fully" passing judgement shortly.
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I can't believe I'm getting sucked in by this again, but there is a HUGE difference between passing judgement in a vacuum of information and passing judgement with a lot of information in front of you.
We agree. The point is people pass judgment here all the time on players, coaches, other posters with almost no information. All the time....myself included.
It comes down to whom and by who.
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Lol. Boom, roasted.
I'm sure Chicos will say something about "fully" passing judgement shortly.
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Thank you, big daddy.
Ditto
+1
This thread is deplorable.
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I have been a lurker her for many years now, and this thread is not what i would expect from the MU community. Maybe this is a bit harsh, but i cannot believe people will pass judgement on this kid without knowing any details at all other then baseless rumors. And then to pass judgement on Buzz if he decides to accept this young man into our program. This is without knowing what truly happened now or in the past, what his background is like, what his relationship is with Buzz, ect.
This is a Jesuit school and i think Buzz is a great representative of this and if Buzz decided that he should be accepted into MU we should be supportive and appreciative to have a coach like him. Because if Buzz decides to give him a second(third, fourth, tenth, ect) chance it will be for a good reason, a reason that none of us ever need to know specifically. But to want to help a young man with talent and possibly turn his life around or point it in the right direction you will distrust Buzz? Why, because of all the bad individuals that the program has turned out in his time? Because we all know that if he ends his 4 years at MU he will leave a better man under Buzz, and if Buzz accepts him then he trusts him to make it those 4 years. And i trust my coach.
And i certainly hope(and imagine) the last thing Buzz is concerned about in this kids future is the opinion of a bunch of message board users or even the general fan base. hopefully he is caring about the kid and has discussed this with the administration which i imagine would also support for the right reasons. Until we know more(which we may never know) i cannot imagine passing judgement.
Go MU!!!!
Very well stated.
+ 2.5