Blue is missing something

[🏀]

If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander?  I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.

Has a higher basketball IQ.

[MU82]

Pakuni

I am basing my point off that I had heard Vander was going pro after this season nine months ago. I am assuming someone must be giving him solid advice. The person(s) that told me this were very confident that this was his last year at MU. I am not surprised he is having breakout year if what I heard is correct. The kid is playing to get himself to next level.

I would postulate that whoever is telling Vander he should go pro after this year is giving him the opposite of solid advice.

Liquid advice? Gas advice? Whatever, but it isn't solid.

Only somebody who is a lock to be drafted in the first round (and who then will receive a multi-year, guaranteed contract) -- and then, only somebody quite certain to go in the lottery -- should come out early.

We might disagree about Vander's long-range prospects and about whether or not he'll get drafted, but I'm pretty sure that nobody here thinks he'll be one of the top 14 picks in the draft.

[Goose]

MU82

Being a 20 year old might work in his favor. That extra year of being coached at higher level might be what a team would be looking for. Age factors into things and being a young Jr. in college is a positive. Paying guys to play is different story and teams draft for different reasons. Just look at the number of high school kids drafted early and never did a thing. They were drafted for long term potential.

[MattyWarrior]

Hes got as many points in 18 games this year as he had in 33 last year, big improvement but he needs to stay
for a senior season.. 

[martyconlonontherun]

Wesley, Lazar, JFB, and Jae had little to no chance - until they did. Dominic James was thought to be an NBA player from very early in his MU career - until he wasn't.

Watching his improvement, I wouldn't bet against Vander.

But would you bet on him?

[MU82]

MU82

Being a 20 year old might work in his favor. That extra year of being coached at higher level might be what a team would be looking for. Age factors into things and being a young Jr. in college is a positive. Paying guys to play is different story and teams draft for different reasons. Just look at the number of high school kids drafted early and never did a thing. They were drafted for long term potential.

I hear ya, Goose. But I still say there is not one GM in the league who would make Vander a top-14 draft pick, or even a top-30.

The difference between drafting a prep kid and even a kid who has played only one year of college is night and day because college kids have a real track record against real competition. NBA teams HATED the prep-eligible rule and are thrilled it no longer exists.

Also, of all "let's take a flier on this young kid" high draft picks, how many were skinny 6-3 or 6-4 kids without proven point-guard skills and without a proven jumpshot?

[ChicosBailBonds]

As juniors, neither are/were good NBA prospects.

That is my sense as well.  He will have to make big strides to get to the next level.  McNeal made enough strides to land for a cup of coffee.

We should just look at DJO...here's a kid that got drafted and couldn't stick, either. I think DJO is a better player than Vander will become.  Just my two cents.  Vander has more size than DJO, but he doesn't do well the things he has to at his size for the NBA, that's part of the problem.

[Pakuni]

Vander has a good 3 inches on DJO at least.  That's important in the NBA.  Not everyone has to be a scorer to stick, it just helps overcome other deficiencies at times.

No chance. DJO was 6'3" (in shoes) and 6'1.5" without at the NBA combine. MU  lists Vander at 6'4" and, given past Combine results, is typically generous. Also, DJO has an NBA body. Strong. Physical.

Maybe not everybody has to be a scorer to stick, but if you want to be a 6'3" two guard in the NBA, you'd better be a big-time scorer.
I hope he makes it (after 2014, of course). Really do. But for that to happen, he's either going to have to show some point guard skills or become an elite scorer/shooter. Being athletic isn't enough.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In your world (and i'll grant officially according to the NBA) a guy who signs a contract but never plays a second before being cut is an NBA player. In mine you have to play to be considered a  player. I also don't think that a singer who signs a contract with Columbia records but never records anything with them is a Columbia recording artist.

But for the sake of a wager I'm willing to give Jerel credit for his contract. Here's my offer: Jerel vs Vander, first 5 years after college professional success. $100 for signing an NBA contract (limit 1 per player) + $1 per minute of playing time in regular or playoff games. You're ahead right now by a hundred and if Vander never gets a sniff you'll win at least that much. Conditions accepted?

Well, like I said, I'm not betting against the kid so I would say no, conditions not accepted.  I hope the kid makes it, I just think he isn't ready today just as I didn't think McNeal was ready his junior year.

I'm not sure I follow your singer analogy.  Remember,to be part of a team it's not just about the games.  Prep time, practice time, etc...you're under contract to be a player and be ready to go in.  You're paid whether you play in a real game or not, but you prepare in practice, film room, strategy sessions, etc, just like the other 11 guys that are also paid.  If you are called to get in, you're called to get in.  Some of it is a matter of luck.  There have been players that got to play that were not as good as McNeal, but because the team was up 20 points in the 4th quarter or down 20, they got an opportunity. McNeal didn't, maybe someday he will.  For now, I go on what the NBA says.

[MU82]

As a senior at Indiana in 2000, A.J. Guyton averaged 20 points. He was a career 41 percent 3-point shooter who also averaged 3 assists and 3 rebounds. He was a little shorter than Vander but had a similar body type.

He was a second-round pick. Played 80 games over three seasons and was never heard from again.

This kid could really, really shoot but simply couldn't overcome his body size.

It takes a special, special, special kid to be a smallish 2-guard in the NBA. That specialness usually means an incredible shooting stroke. And even then, it's tough.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not sure I follow your singer analogy.  Remember,to be part of a team it's not just about the games.  Prep time, practice time, etc...you're under contract to be a player and be ready to go in.  You're paid whether you play in a real game or not, but you prepare in practice, film room, strategy sessions, etc, just like the other 11 guys that are also paid.  If you are called to get in, you're called to get in.  Some of it is a matter of luck.  There have been players that got to play that were not as good as McNeal, but because the team was up 20 points in the 4th quarter or down 20, they got an opportunity. McNeal didn't, maybe someday he will.  For now, I go on what the NBA says.

I'm surprised you can't follow my singer analogy. In it, the singer is part of the Columbia Records team. He/she attends meetings and "practices" songs under the watchful eye of company executives. He/she may be compensated while touring, etc, and whether they actually record may be a matter of luck (finding the right material,etc). I'm sure some who never record are better singers (in someone's eyes anyway) than those who do. But since they never record (play) it's not fair to call him/her a Columbia Recording artist (NBA player).

[Stronghold]

Guys in NBA obviously see things differently than we do. If VB is considering going pro someone has to be telling him what the big boys think. That does not make him a sure fire pro by any means but because guys on here think he cannot make it really means nothing.

If someone would have told me Chris Crawford would have had the career he had I would have taken any bet on that. Athleticism and speed goes a long way, plus he has good basketball frame to grown into.

For sure.  The guys working in the NBA know what to look for in players much more than most here and surely myself.  Extreme devotion to our Marquette basketball team doesn't mean we are well versed in the next level of basketball.

[MUDPT]

On Pomeroy's similar player rating system, he rated Vander's sophomore season very similar to Wes's.  This year his season rates similar's to DJO's junior year.

[AlienWarrior]

VDB=PRO

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm surprised you can't follow my singer analogy. In it, the singer is part of the Columbia Records team. He/she attends meetings and "practices" songs under the watchful eye of company executives. He/she may be compensated while touring, etc, and whether they actually record may be a matter of luck (finding the right material,etc). I'm sure some who never record are better singers (in someone's eyes anyway) than those who do. But since they never record (play) it's not fair to call him/her a Columbia Recording artist (NBA player).

I don't follow it because it makes no sense.  A NBA roster has 12 players under contract.  If you are on the roster and under contract, you are ON the team.  So says the NBA.  Whether you play or not, you are on the team.

How this applies to your comparison, quite frankly, is not remotely analogous.  I don't know if it is because you are disappointed that the NBA's official recognition differs from your POV or what, but Jerel McNeal was a paid player in the NBA, on a roster, and recognized as such by the NBA.  It's open and shut.

[honkytonk]

Strangely, I think Blue's best shot at getting drafted is actually this June. Scouts are not looking forward to this summer's draft because it is absolutely terrible. It would be impossible for the following year's draft to not be better...and probably MUCH better. In fact, there actually might be better talent in the d-league than this year's draft class. Still, he's no more than a second rounder, at best.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Certainly not the end all, be all, but here are a few of the ratings out there.

NBA DRAFT.net has top 100 players and no MU player is there for 2013 draft.   http://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard

Draft Express has Vander 46th best junior (DG rated ahead of him at 38...Jamil at 81), but no MU player in top 100 overall   http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/


I went through about 5 to 7 others that have mock drafts for 2013 and 2014 and he isn't on any lists right now.  I suspect he could be for 2014, but find it to be a stretch that he would be on any 2013 list any time soon. 

[jmayer1]

#81 according to Chad Ford. I would say 20% chance he would get drafted should he leave after this year, which I, of course, would prefer did not happen.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/player/_/id/19605/vander-blue

[martyconlonontherun]

#81 according to Chad Ford. I would say 20% chance he would get drafted should he leave after this year, which I, of course, would prefer did not happen.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/player/_/id/19605/vander-blue

Another thing to consider is that he is at best a late second right now. That would mean no guaranteed contract.

[Lennys Tap]

Another thing to consider is that he is at best a late second right now. That would mean no guaranteed contract.

Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.

[avid1010]

Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.

i was just going to mention jimmy butler (as he's currently beating on the bucks)...remember how he was the guy that couldn't make a lay-up to save his life as he would draw contact (and often the foul), but couldn't finish...seems like he progressed well.  people have been trying to write vander off for a long time.  the fact is he plays really solid defense, has great athleticism/quickness, and gets better ever year.  if his game continues to improve at the rate that is has since he set foot at mu, i see him getting drafted.  mcneal is a bad comparison...not nearly the athlete. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

i was just going to mention jimmy butler (as he's currently beating on the bucks)...remember how he was the guy that couldn't make a lay-up to save his life as he would draw contact (and often the foul), but couldn't finish...seems like he progressed well.  people have been trying to write vander off for a long time.  the fact is he plays really solid defense, has great athleticism/quickness, and gets better ever year.  if his game continues to improve at the rate that is has since he set foot at mu, i see him getting drafted.  mcneal is a bad comparison...not nearly the athlete. 

Honestly, no, I don't remember JB being a guy that missed a lot of layups...certainly not at the level VB did and VB often missed them without the contact.  VB is a wonderful athlete, unfortunately doesn't have JB's size so he has to be really proficient in some other areas (either passing as a PG or shooting).  As Lenny said, lots of golf left, hope he makes it.  McNeal, by the way, was a good athlete which is one reason why he had so many more rebounds than VB....nearly 5 rebounds per game compared to 3.5. 

I think people are having some short memories around here about McNeal...MU's all time leading scorer, Big East Defensive Player of the Year, all time steals leader, top 10 all time in assists, etc. 

[Sir Lawrence]

I agree with Chicos.  Jimmy had a nose for the bucket from day one.  He did not have the problems with layups and no footers that VB did last season.

[chapman]

Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.

+1.  There's at least 13 games left, including the bulk of the games that matter most in the season and Vander's positioning for the draft, Ferguson is transferring to somewhere like Radford, and Otule is welcome back next year (though with 14 games left in the season it would have been best for him to just move on).  Let's shelf this and sub it for some of the painful offseason debates that we usually see.

[MU82]

Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.

I have said that, too.

As we speak, Vander is not a serious NBA prospect at all. A dozen more games even 2/3 as good as the last one, and he will be.

Gotta let him tee it up a bunch more times. Fore!