Blue is missing something

[Lennys Tap]

 VB is not at that level.  He might be a better pro, but I don't view that comparison as an insult by any stretch.

Since Jerel has never played a second in the NBA the worst outcome for Van would be a dead heat.

[Goose]

Sultan

If you want to compare Jerel and VB as college player no problem. I thought discussion was VB and the NBA. As for next level potential IMO Jerel is a poor man's Vander in regard to playing at next level.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, their junior year statlines are similar but look back at freshman and soph years to see why Blue is not quite at McNeal's level yet.

In terms of NBA potential, the major difference between Blue and McNeal is that Blue is at least 2" taller and much more athletic.

I'd say the fact that Blue has a greater gap between his fresh/soph and junior numbers gives him the edge in NBA chances.

[mug644]

Here's something from Jason King's "King's Court" on ESPN (he's gets the 'B' grade):

"B: Vander Blue -- After subpar seasons as a freshman and sophomore, the 31st-ranked recruit in the Class of 2010 is finally living up to expectations. Blue is averaging 14.8 points per game for 25th-ranked Marquette and 19 points in his past five contests. "We don't necessarily sign guys that are ready-made," Golden Eagles coach Buzz Williams told ESPN.com. "We sign guys that know they're going to have to work. He's had a lot on his shoulders. He can't control what all the expectations have been for him since he got here. He's handled that burden, and now his stock is on the rise. But we need him to do more." Blue netted a career-high 30 points in Sunday's win over South Florida."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8895166/six-teams-exceeded-expectations-college-basketball

[ChicosBailBonds]

Stone Cold

A middle class Jerel? Come on!!

I think Stone Cold has it right.  McNeal was a better player at this stage.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Since Jerel has never played a second in the NBA the worst outcome for Van would be a dead heat.

The worst outcome would be to never sign a contract, thus not making it a dead heat.  Meaning, he would never be a NBA player which McNeal has already accomplished

[MarsupialMadness]

Wesley, Lazar, JFB, and Jae had little to no chance - until they did. Dominic James was thought to be an NBA player from very early in his MU career - until he wasn't.

Watching his improvement, I wouldn't bet against Vander.

+1

[Goose]

Chico's

So did you think Jerel had higher NBA prospects than Vander?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico's

So did you think Jerel had higher NBA prospects than Vander?

I view them similarly overall.  By no means am I suggesting he can't make it, but I think right now in his junior year he is a long way off.

Let's not forget that McNeal was the Big East Defensive Player of the year in a conference back then that was superior to today's Big East.  He is also MU's all time leading scorer, a better assist man than Vander is.

I won't bet against VB, but I find the notion of him leaving after this year to be bad bad advice if that's what he is thinking.

[Goose]

Chico's

If he goes this year or not is not really the point. Comparing Jerel and Vander as Jr's you thought Jerel had same NBA prospects as Vander? IMO there is no comparison between the two in regards to being NBA prospects. Seriously, with all of your contacts what do the NBA guys look for?

[Blackhat]

Had to look at the stats: small sample size for this conf. season year BUT IF Blue keeps up his ppg and fg% in league play I'll say he's about McNeal's equal this year if not better jr year.

Like that Blue is moving in the right direction obviously.  Amazing thing about Jerel was he gave us consistent top level production for 4 years (and took it to another level his senior year).

*Conference Statistics*
McNeal:
Soph year: 14.9 ppg, 3.9 apg, 5.1 rpg,  42.9 fg%,  37.7 3pt fg%.
Blue:
Soph year: 8 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.7 rpg, 42 fg%, 25 3 fg%

McNeal:
Junior year:     13.6 ppg, 4.0 apg, 4.7 rpg, 40.3 fg%,  25. 9 3pt fg%.   (senior yr. 22.3 ppg, 4.6 apg, 40 3 fg%, 44 fg%)
Blue:
Junior-7 games: 17.1ppg, 1.9 apg, 3.9 rpg, 46.6 fg%,  27.8 3pt fg%.

[Pakuni]

Chico's

If he goes this year or not is not really the point. Comparing Jerel and Vander as Jr's you thought Jerel had same NBA prospects as Vander? IMO there is no comparison between the two in regards to being NBA prospects. Seriously, with all of your contacts what do the NBA guys look for?

You guys are arguing over who's the tallest midget in the room.
As juniors, neither are/were good NBA prospects.

[Goose]

Pakuni


Just curious...how do you know what NBA guys think? I fully admit I do not know, but know Vander has been NBA draft charts all three seasons here.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni


Just curious...how do you know what NBA guys think? I fully admit I do not know, but know Vander has been NBA draft charts all three seasons here.

If you don't know what NBA guys think, how is it that you're certain Vander is on NBA draft charts?
I'd guess there are dozens of players on NBA draft charts. But in a draft in which only 60 players are taken, a decent number of them from Europe, being on the radar does not make one a good prospect.
How do I know what NBA guys think? From watching the draft. And 6-foot-3ish two guards without consistent perimeter shots or point-guard skills don't often fare well in the draft.

[MU82]

I think some folks here don't realize how difficult it is for a skinny 6-3 or 6-4 kid to make it in the NBA. The few who do are either incredible shooters, killer ballhandler/assist men or both.

Vander, at this point, is neither.

Please, I am not saying Vander is no good. He has worked hard to become very good and he has the chance to be an outstanding, outstanding college player.

But unless he significantly improves the most important NBA skill-sets for a player of his size -- shooting, ballhandling, passing -- he will not be an NBA player. Just as Jerel is not an NBA player and DJO is not an NBA player and former Illini star Dee Brown is not an NBA player and so many other undersized non-shooters are not NBA players. The NBA values defense and hustle, but not so much in a skinny 6-3 kid.

Might Vander get drafted? That's a whole 'nother question. Sure he might. Lazar and DJO got drafted ... but they are not destined to have long NBA careers. Adam Morrison got drafted No. 3 overall and he was out of basketball faster than you could say "What was Michael Jordan thinking?"

Only 450 players in the entire world are good enough to be on NBA rosters, and only half of them are good enough to have real security. I can't think of another player similar to Vander Blue who is in that group.

[Lennys Tap]

The worst outcome would be to never sign a contract, thus not making it a dead heat.  Meaning, he would never be a NBA player which McNeal has already accomplished

In your world (and i'll grant officially according to the NBA) a guy who signs a contract but never plays a second before being cut is an NBA player. In mine you have to play to be considered a  player. I also don't think that a singer who signs a contract with Columbia records but never records anything with them is a Columbia recording artist.

But for the sake of a wager I'm willing to give Jerel credit for his contract. Here's my offer: Jerel vs Vander, first 5 years after college professional success. $100 for signing an NBA contract (limit 1 per player) + $1 per minute of playing time in regular or playoff games. You're ahead right now by a hundred and if Vander never gets a sniff you'll win at least that much. Conditions accepted?

[DienerTime34]

Eventually, this is all going to boil down to the most important question: What does he measure without shoes?

[Marqevans]

Isn't Blue a couple inches taller than McNeil?

[Bocephys]

Isn't Blue a couple inches taller than McNeil?

Vander is listed at 6'4", I believe McNeal was usually listed at 6'2" or 6'3". 

[Pakuni]

Isn't Blue a couple inches taller than McNeil?

McNeal's official height at MU was 6-foot-3.
Blue's official height is 6-foot-4.

[tower912]

A better long-range jumper, the ability to play the point.   He has the speed, athleticism and hops.   He can defend well enough.  

[Goose]

Pakuni

I am basing my point off that I had heard Vander was going pro after this season nine months ago. I am assuming someone must be giving him solid advice. The person(s) that told me this were very confident that this was his last year at MU. I am not surprised he is having breakout year if what I heard is correct. The kid is playing to get himself to next level.

[MarsupialMadness]

If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander?  I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.

[GGGG]

If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander?  I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.

He's also a better handler.

[Bocephys]

If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander?  I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.

Vander has a good 3 inches on DJO at least.  That's important in the NBA.  Not everyone has to be a scorer to stick, it just helps overcome other deficiencies at times.