COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

To be fair, if it’s like his sports takes, he glanced at 2 headlines for 5 seconds and created his bulletproof arrogant opinion without bothering with facts, names, or mitigating factors

Big Mike has been on fire.
He wanted the whole country sheltered at home 2 weeks ago.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What are you basing this statement on?

It's been floating around on my "Facebook friends who are Trump fans" feeds all day.

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-699-coronavirus-patients-100-success-using-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-zinc-z-pak-update/?fbclid=IwAR10hCZvXaS8JyTCR3obbSmFGowD19Wo7qKbJl3RlEwWQQze-1qR-P5ZJNU

To be fair, he may be right.  Or he may be full of it because he has provided no patient data to show it. 

But to see this article and claim it works isn't necessarily accurate.

[GooooMarquette]

What are you basing this statement on?

My guess is that he's basing his definitive "conclusion" ("btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!") on the anecdotal reports referred to below:

 “Anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients,” the Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement Sunday. “Clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/theres-scant-evidence-for-chloroquine-so-far-as-a-covid-19-drug-but-theres-already-a-shortage-2020-03-30

It's a shame that someone with his extensive education doesn't seem to know the difference between anecdotal reports and scientific conclusions, and therefore treats the underlined part of DHHS' statement as mere surplusage.

[Coleman]

Bo's Message Therapist (LOL),

Thank you for all you are doing. We will get through this, thanks to the bravery and heroics of our medical professionals. I wish our country was doing more to support you guys, at the very least getting you the protective gear you need.

Our family is staying home for you guys.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

(What this thread needs from time to time.)

[MU82]

My guess is that he's basing his definitive "conclusion" ("btw, chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!") on the anecdotal reports referred to below:

 “Anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients,” the Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement Sunday. “Clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/theres-scant-evidence-for-chloroquine-so-far-as-a-covid-19-drug-but-theres-already-a-shortage-2020-03-30

It's a shame that someone with his extensive education doesn't seem to know the difference between anecdotal reports and scientific conclusions, and therefore treats the underlined part of DHHS' statement as mere surplusage.

It rocket's defense, he has been conned by one of the best con men ever. You see rocket, 4ever and other intelligent Scoopers continually support an immoral, unethical, corrupt, dangerous, incompetent liar, and you wonder ... but then you acknowledge that the current occupant of the White House is a gifted charlatan.

Thankfully, at least they can see Wojo's failings. Because that's what's really important in America right now. That, and the ratings of presidential press briefings.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It rocket's defense, he has been conned by one of the best con men ever. You see rocket, 4ever and other intelligent Scoopers continually support an immoral, unethical, corrupt, dangerous, incompetent liar, and you wonder ... but then you acknowledge that the current occupant of the White House is a gifted charlatan.

Thankfully, at least they can see Wojo's failings. Because that's what's really important in America right now. That, and the ratings of presidential press briefings.

MU82 - I don't understand how this advances our dialog or understanding about COVID-19.  You're not the only one, but why do we need to go here?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

nm

[Archies Bat]

You're right, and I'm one of the guilty parties. I'll step away. We ain't gonna solve nuttin' here.

Health, happiness and sanity to all.

Bump.

[MU82]

Guilty ... again.

And I again will tone it down.

I did step away for a few days last time, but I admit I sometimes can't help myself. I'll try to do better.

[Coleman]

Guilty ... again.

And I again will tone it down.

I did step away for a few days last time, but I admit I sometimes can't help myself. I'll try to do better.

82, you're a good dude. And we agree on most things. You contribute a lot to these threads, so I hope you can keep politics out of it so we don't lose you to a ban!

[MU82]

82, you're a good dude. And we agree on most things. You contribute a lot to these threads, so I hope you can keep politics out of it so we don't lose you to a ban!

Thanks Coleman.

I am banning myself for at least 3 days from this thread. Plenty of others have good takes, and I obviously need to focus my energy elsewhere.

Hopefully, when I return, I can be a good boy!

[rocket surgeon]

i am trying very hard to not getting into political arguments here because 1) they are prohibited and 2) they accomplish nothing and i haven't heard anyone respond back...hey you got an excellent point(s) there and i'm going to vote for...next election

  ok, with that being said-here is pfizer's safety positive data report re: the use of zpack with chloroquine and it's sister drug, hydroxy...

 https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/pfizer-data-azithromycin-covid-19-trial/

here is a report of a patient who responded better than well and a comment from his doctor
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/macomb-man-with-covid-19-says-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-saved-him

my point, once again is these drugs have been approved for use for other things for years.  we have many drugs in our arsenal that have taken advantage of drugs primary intended consequences.  example-erythromycin has for years been the antibiotic of choice for patients allergic to penicillin.  however, a BIG disadvantage to prescribing it was it's infamy for causing terrible gut reactions ranging from stomach aches to running bowels.  patients HATED to take it because of this.  my lil bro, who has been a pharmacist involved in direct patient care for 27 years at meriter hospital told me that they will sometimes use erythromycin to treat constipation

   a number of drug companies have donated and/or made available, millions of doses of these drugs to hospitals-why?  surely it would be to a little more than anecdotal evidence, but short of "double blind" studies some here seem to demand.  in other words, we need to see that Christ was crucified in order to believe?  does this mean that i am throwing all science and all of my educational foundation out the window as some here also want to accuse me of?  absolutely not.  i believe that sometimes we, as human beings, need to weigh out the risk/reward with a dose of humanity and critical thinking.  unless the cure is worse than the disease, we have to be willing to use everything we have at our disposal until something better arrives. 

   https://www.novartis.com/news/media-releases/novartis-commits-donate-130-million-doses-hydroxychloroquine-support-global-covid-19-pandemic-response

sanofil, pfizer, may be a couple of the others

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

i am trying very hard to not getting into political arguments here because 1) they are prohibited and 2) they accomplish nothing and i haven't heard anyone respond back...hey you got an excellent point(s) there and i'm going to vote for...next election

  ok, with that being said-here is pfizer's safety positive data report re: the use of zpack with chloroquine and it's sister drug, hydroxy...

 https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/pfizer-data-azithromycin-covid-19-trial/

here is a report of a patient who responded better than well and a comment from his doctor
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/macomb-man-with-covid-19-says-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-saved-him

my point, once again is these drugs have been approved for use for other things for years.  we have many drugs in our arsenal that have taken advantage of drugs primary intended consequences.  example-erythromycin has for years been the antibiotic of choice for patients allergic to penicillin.  however, a BIG disadvantage to prescribing it was it's infamy for causing terrible gut reactions ranging from stomach aches to running bowels.  patients HATED to take it because of this.  my lil bro, who has been a pharmacist involved in direct patient care for 27 years at meriter hospital told me that they will sometimes use erythromycin to treat constipation

   a number of drug companies have donated and/or made available, millions of doses of these drugs to hospitals-why?  surely it would be to a little more than anecdotal evidence, but short of "double blind" studies some here seem to demand.  in other words, we need to see that Christ was crucified in order to believe?  does this mean that i am throwing all science and all of my educational foundation out the window as some here also want to accuse me of?  absolutely not.  i believe that sometimes we, as human beings, need to weigh out the risk/reward with a dose of humanity and critical thinking.  unless the cure is worse than the disease, we have to be willing to use everything we have at our disposal until something better arrives. 

   https://www.novartis.com/news/media-releases/novartis-commits-donate-130-million-doses-hydroxychloroquine-support-global-covid-19-pandemic-response

sanofil, pfizer, may be a couple of the others

There is a lot of hedging going on in those articles / releases by Novartis and Pfizer.

Versus what you said:  "chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!"

Hey, I hope it does.  But there is a long way to go before declaring victory here.

[jesmu84]

https://www.propublica.org/article/taxpayers-paid-millions-to-design-a-low-cost-ventilator-for-a-pandemic-instead-the-company-is-selling-versions-of-it-overseas-

[rocky_warrior]

Hey, I hope it does.  But there is a long way to go before declaring victory here.

I think most people are in this boat - I hope it's a magic bullet too!  But It's probably not.

But, since I've got some extra stock from a trip to SE Asia last year - can any medical professional here tell me if Malarone (Atovaquone / Proguanil) + z-pack *could* have similar medical effects?  Of course, I'm not going to be the idiot that self medicates - but if I'm laying on the floor dying and can't breath - I might grab the bottles and down some!

[GooooMarquette]

There is a lot of hedging going on in those articles / releases by Novartis and Pfizer.

Versus what you said:  "chloroquine and hydroxychlorquine with zithromycin(zpack) is working!!"

Hey, I hope it does.  But there is a long way to go before declaring victory here.

My thoughts exactly. Reason for cautious optimism, but far from conclusive evidence that it’s working...

[shoothoops]

For their daily briefings, the White House is using the Dr. Chris Murray/University of Washington death model.

According to Murray:

It's a death model because in his opinion worst cases would still get timely supplies, equipment etc...so the assumption is that these things won't be an issue. So it is perceived to be easier to track than cases. Problems in those areas would elevate death projections.

As of today he projects over 81,000 deaths in the U.S. .....if and only if:

Everyone stays at home through June 1st, and all states do it.

The model changes input and output daily as applicable.

How different would the models look if better action had taken place the first two months?

[forgetful]

I think most people are in this boat - I hope it's a magic bullet too!  But It's probably not.

But, since I've got some extra stock from a trip to SE Asia last year - can any medical professional here tell me if Malarone (Atovaquone / Proguanil) + z-pack *could* have similar medical effects?  Of course, I'm not going to be the idiot that self medicates - but if I'm laying on the floor dying and can't breath - I might grab the bottles and down some!

Not an MD, but I do know a bit about pharmaceuticals. Neither of those components in Malarone are chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine, and there is no reason to believe that those medications would have a similar (if it exists) mechanism of action or efficacy.

[Coleman]

Not an MD, but I do know a bit about pharmaceuticals.

How much for some Xanax?

[shoothoops]

Trump finally invoked the Defense Production Act this weekend, after many had requested it for weeks and months to help with equipment, supplies, testing etc...

Trump said, “You know, we’re a country not based on nationalizing our business,”...”Call a person over in Venezuela, ask them how did nationalization of their business work out? Not too well.”

But, in reality the current administration has used the Defense Production Act hundreds of thousands of times per year, including 300,000 a year for the Department of Defense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/us/politics/coronavirus-defense-production-act.html

[rocky_warrior]

Lack of testing is still the biggest issue. Incredibly, the Liar-in-Chief said YESTERDAY "I Haven't Heard About Testing in Weeks".

Utterly astounding! Every other person in the entire country knows we are lacking testing. Even the 3 stooges (4never, ziggy and idiot surgeon) whose only purpose is to provide cover, know we don't have proper testing. They will continue to be liars - Ziggy saying anyone could be tested in Pleasant Prairie is one example - but they know the truth. They just aren't willing to admit it.

We can disregard the 18,000 other lies he has told, but that one, single lie should be cause for impeachment. He is letting people die as he desperately tries to glorify himself. Zero responsibility. Always someone else's fault. The man is a monster.

I'm ok with you laying blame, but
1) no need to poke other members while doing so
2) Calls for impeachment look silly now.  Like it or not, he's going to be the one to "get us through" this.  Maybe he'll get impeached again after it's over.  But you can leave that out of your posts.

Thanks.

[shoothoops]

Billie Jean King Tennis Center at the U.S. Open will use its 12 practice courts below Arthur Ashe Stadium to build a 350 bed hospital for COVID-19.

Louis Armstrong Stadium next door to Ashe will serve 25,000 food packages a day (6 meals per package).

The Tennis Center is located near Elmurst Hospital in Queens, NY.

[WarriorDad]

Fog of war.  Reading the last few days it is easy to find a scapegoat to make folks feel better.  Plenty of blame to go around.  From the orange guy's daily rants to endless others.  Mayor of NYC and top city health official tells citizens to go to the theater, favorite restaurant and enjoy themselves.  WHO says the virus isn't airborne viable in late January.  Fla Governor doesn't close beaches.  California stopped funding their pandemic budget several years ago.  Millions of N95 masks allowed to expire in Canada, New York, California and elsewhere.  We can blame later.  Pull it together.


In other news, Ibuprofen now deemed ok when a few weeks ago it wasn't.

https://www.studyfinds.org/study-ibuprofen-among-drugs-found-safe-to-use-in-treatment-of-coronavirus/


Masks now may be required in this country, when a month ago the experts said it would do no good.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/fauci-mask-recommendation-coronavirus-157476


They don't know and they will continue to change opinions because this isn't 100% a sure thing.  Stay safe everyone.

[GooooMarquette]

Masks now may be required in this country, when a month ago the experts said it would do no good.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/fauci-mask-recommendation-coronavirus-157476

I was just talking about this with my wife. I read somewhere (can't recall where) that a simple cotton mask is about half as effective as a basic surgical mask. Both are much less effective than the N-95 masks that first responders and healthcare workers need, but if a simple cotton mask is used in conjunction with social distancing, it still can make a difference.

There are patterns for homemade masks popping up on the interwebs (like this one: https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask), so she is gonna make a couple for us. If they aren't too difficult, she may also make some to give to friends, neighbors and such.

Every little bit....