Vaccine/Antibody updates

[forgetful]

Right now multiple states are out of hospital beds for kids. ICUs full of dying 30-40 year old COVID patients.

Hospitals overwhelmed. Almost completely across the south, and GOP strongholds.

If you turn on most news networks, you have interviews with hospital administrators and local government health leaders (most likely actually traditional GOP supporters) imploring people to get vaccinated and talking about how this wave is unprecedented.

This should have an impact in those states....except...the GOP stronghold states where this is occurring are not watching traditional news networks. They are watching Foxnews, OANN, and Newsmax, where you will see almost zero reporting on any of this. Instead it is focusing on border security, Chinese conspiracy theories, and anything you can possibly spin as negative for Biden/Congress.

That absurd inaction is killing people.

I emphasize this because of a real conversation I had with a person from one of these states hard hit. Traditional Southern Republican, who was attacking a local official for putting a mask mandate in schools. I asked them what should be done, if no masks, given how overwhelmed hospitals are and the surge in cases amongst the young.

There response was that it is all lies, and that the PCR tests don't even work, and if it was real you'd see it being reported on the "real" news (e.g. Foxnews, OANN, Newsmax), but it isn't, its only on the "fake" news. They and their family are proudly unvaccinated.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

There response was that it is all lies, and that the PCR tests don't even work, and if it was real you'd see it being reported on the "real" news (e.g. Foxnews, OANN, Newsmax), but it isn't, its only on the "fake" news. They and their family are proudly unvaccinated.

Vaccinated America is at the point of saying "unnatural carnal knowledge these pretty boys".

This is a case where stupidity really is lethal. If they were harming only themselves it would be one thing, but they are affecting everyone else as well.

[MUBurrow]

Vaccinated America is at the point of saying "unnatural carnal knowledge these pretty boys".

This is a case where stupidity really is lethal. If they were harming only themselves it would be one thing, but they are affecting everyone else as well.

And most importantly, everyone else's kids.  When kids in heavily vaccinated areas start passing this around their schools in a month, I think we might see some real venom toward the unvaccinated from the silent majority.

[Galway Eagle]

Anybody seeing these new articles popping up that have titles like "No, unvaccinated people aren't ignorant or stupid. Here's why" and then they go on about their own choice, and how side effects happen with the vaccine so it becomes a choice between that or the chance they may get Covid...

[Jockey]

Vaccinated America is at the point of saying "unnatural carnal knowledge these pretty boys".

Or past the point. The ignorance is stunning. The gene pool gets stronger every time another vaccine denier dies.

My concern is for the kids of these ignorant clods and the innocent people who will suffer.

[naginiF]

Or past the point. The ignorance is stunning. The gene pool gets stronger every time another vaccine denier dies.

My concern is for the kids of these ignorant clods and the innocent people who will suffer.

It's not ignorance. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge and using that word implies that if provided with knowledge a person would adjust their perspective/actions. This is a complete lack of concern or caring for other people.

The disheartening thing is that it's not just this subject, it's pretty much a universal approach to all issues.

[pacearrow02]

Right now multiple states are out of hospital beds for kids. ICUs full of dying 30-40 year old COVID patients.

Hospitals overwhelmed. Almost completely across the south, and GOP strongholds.

If you turn on most news networks, you have interviews with hospital administrators and local government health leaders (most likely actually traditional GOP supporters) imploring people to get vaccinated and talking about how this wave is unprecedented.

This should have an impact in those states....except...the GOP stronghold states where this is occurring are not watching traditional news networks. They are watching Foxnews, OANN, and Newsmax, where you will see almost zero reporting on any of this. Instead it is focusing on border security, Chinese conspiracy theories, and anything you can possibly spin as negative for Biden/Congress.

That absurd inaction is killing people.

I emphasize this because of a real conversation I had with a person from one of these states hard hit. Traditional Southern Republican, who was attacking a local official for putting a mask mandate in schools. I asked them what should be done, if no masks, given how overwhelmed hospitals are and the surge in cases amongst the young.

There response was that it is all lies, and that the PCR tests don't even work, and if it was real you'd see it being reported on the "real" news (e.g. Foxnews, OANN, Newsmax), but it isn't, its only on the "fake" news. They and their family are proudly unvaccinated.

From what I’ve read while the number of kids being hospitalized has gone up with Delta but despite that it’s nowhere near the number of hospitalizations in kids due to RSV.  If you want parents who are against masks to get on board the media should start highlighting RSV over Covid, much more dangerous to kids.

[naginiF]

From what I’ve read while the number of kids being hospitalized has gone up with Delta but despite that it’s nowhere near the number of hospitalizations in kids due to RSV.  If you want parents who are against masks to get on board the media should start highlighting RSV over Covid, much more dangerous to kids.

So the theory here is that 600K+ Americans dead, 10,000's of hours of media coverage of the seriousness of COVID, a complete upending of 'normal', etc. didn't convince these parents to believe masking is important but changing the message to RSV will convince them? Not a chance.

The only thing that has a shot at changing their minds, and even this is questionable, is if their own kids get serious ill.

[Jockey]

It's not ignorance. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge and using that word implies that if provided with knowledge a person would adjust their perspective/actions. This is a complete lack of concern or caring for other people.

The disheartening thing is that it's not just this subject, it's pretty much a universal approach to all issues.

I thought I had as little respect as possible for these people. You just made me respect them even less.

[pacearrow02]

So the theory here is that 600K+ Americans dead, 10,000's of hours of media coverage of the seriousness of COVID, a complete upending of 'normal', etc. didn't convince these parents to believe masking is important but changing the message to RSV will convince them? Not a chance.

The only thing that has a shot at changing their minds, and even this is questionable, is if their own kids get serious ill.

Which RSV is far more likely of doing to kids…...of the 600K deaths you mention, how many of those were kids under the age of 12?  Parents making the argument against masks as a mitigation effort for kids under 12 is because kids that young aren’t the ones affected by C19.  Those are the ones however getting absolutely hammered by RSV right now.

If you’re older then 12, get the shot. 

[jesmu84]

From what I’ve read while the number of kids being hospitalized has gone up with Delta but despite that it’s nowhere near the number of hospitalizations in kids due to RSV.  If you want parents who are against masks to get on board the media should start highlighting RSV over Covid, much more dangerous to kids.

Do you have #'s for current hospitalizations of delta vs RSV?

[rocky_warrior]

Do you have #'s for current hospitalizations of delta vs RSV?

I hope Pace has the data, all I can find is data per state, so choosing Wisconsin I see about 120 RSV positives per week, and about 8400 covid cases per week (both moving averages, though different timeframes). 

https://www.cdc.gov/surveillance/nrevss/images/rsvstate/RSV4PPCent3AVG_StateWI.htm
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendscases

[pacearrow02]

I hope Pace has the data, all I can find is data per state, so choosing Wisconsin I see about 120 RSV positives per week, and about 8400 covid cases per week (both moving averages, though different timeframes). 

https://www.cdc.gov/surveillance/nrevss/images/rsvstate/RSV4PPCent3AVG_StateWI.htm
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendscases

RSV almost exclusively hospitalizes kids…to compare weekly Covid cases to RSV is apples and oranges.  I’ll try to track down if there is RSV tracking data.  Remember reading a story earlier this week from Texas that 90% of kids hospitalized of respiratory illness was because of RSV, not Covid but I’ll do some digging.

[MU82]

So the theory here is that 600K+ Americans dead, 10,000's of hours of media coverage of the seriousness of COVID, a complete upending of 'normal', etc. didn't convince these parents to believe masking is important but changing the message to RSV will convince them? Not a chance.

The only thing that has a shot at changing their minds, and even this is questionable, is if their own kids get serious ill.

Yep.

[rocky_warrior]

RSV almost exclusively hospitalizes kids…to compare weekly Covid cases to RSV is apples and oranges.  I’ll try to track down if there is RSV tracking data.  Remember reading a story earlier this week from Texas that 90% of kids hospitalized of respiratory illness was because of RSV, not Covid but I’ll do some digging.

CDC averages certainly don't show that.  Certainly a lot of outpatient visits, but not hospitalizations (vs the elderly at about 3x the rate).

https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/research/us-surveillance.html

Each year in the United States, RSV leads, on average, to approximately—

2.1 million outpatient visits among children younger than 5 years old1
58,000 hospitalizations among children younger than 5 years old2
177,000 hospitalizations among adults 65 years and older3
14,000 deaths among adults 65 years and older3

edit, and again, there were only 2200 RSV detections in the entire country last week.  I have a feeling you've been misinformed about the # of hospitalizations:
https://www.cdc.gov/surveillance/nrevss/images/trend_images/RSV14Num_Nat.htm

Final edit:  Not saying RSV & Hospitalizations aren't an issue that masking could help, I'm just not certain it's on the scale of covid, or something that going to get anti-mask parents to change their mind - when their kids have survived RSV before.

[pacearrow02]

CDC averages certainly don't show that.  Certainly a lot of outpatient visits, but not hospitalizations (vs the elderly at about 3x the rate).

https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/research/us-surveillance.html

edit, and again, there were only 2200 RSV detections in the entire country last week.  I have a feeling you've been misinformed about the # of hospitalizations:
https://www.cdc.gov/surveillance/nrevss/images/trend_images/RSV14Num_Nat.htm

I’m talking about hospitalizations of kids not overall or compared to elderly.  Probably out my original post under the wrong thread but meant to have it framed in the mask or no mask as we go back to school.  Was arguing if a lot of these mask hesitant parents saw more about RSV on the news maybe that would help move them to being more in favor of masks for 12 and under ages.

[jesmu84]

RSV almost exclusively hospitalizes kids…to compare weekly Covid cases to RSV is apples and oranges.  I’ll try to track down if there is RSV tracking data.  Remember reading a story earlier this week from Texas that 90% of kids hospitalized of respiratory illness was because of RSV, not Covid but I’ll do some digging.

Thanks. I'd just like to see the evidence you're referencing.

[pacearrow02]

Thanks. I'd just like to see the evidence you're referencing.

https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/research/us-surveillance.html

Link above shows on average almost 60,000 hospitalizations a year with RSV just for kids 5 or younger.  More then 2.1 million outpatient visits on average (for just 5 years and younger alone)


https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

In 2020 and 2021 combined per above link from CDC there were only 3500 hospitalizations for kids 17 and younger for Covid.

And if this RSV season is off to an earlier start then normal will be interesting to see how bad it gets once we hit the normal peak season of Nov/Dec. 

[Pakuni]

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

In 2020 and 2021 combined per above link from CDC there were only 3500 hospitalizations for kids 17 and younger for Covid.

Seems woefully out of date, given that 1,600 kids were hospitalized with COVID just last week alone.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/11/covid-children-hospitals-schools-reopen-503885

[pacearrow02]

Seems woefully out of date, given that 1,600 kids were hospitalized with COVID just last week alone.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/11/covid-children-hospitals-schools-reopen-503885

Last update was August 6th it says so lagging a bit for sure.   These are also numbers for laboratory confirmed, not sure what exactly that means.

[forgetful]

https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/research/us-surveillance.html

Link above shows on average almost 60,000 hospitalizations a year with RSV just for kids 5 or younger.  More then 2.1 million outpatient visits on average (for just 5 years and younger alone)


https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html

In 2020 and 2021 combined per above link from CDC there were only 3500 hospitalizations for kids 17 and younger for Covid.

And if this RSV season is off to an earlier start then normal will be interesting to see how bad it gets once we hit the normal peak season of Nov/Dec.

The Covid data isn’t remotely accurate. TX alone has had 5800+ children hospitalized, 15% of which occurred in the last month alone.

Children’s hospitals are filling up with COVID patients. Yes, it is made worse by RSV, but COVID is more dangerous for kids than RSV. This is just a fact.

Curious what right wing source is pumping these RSV arguments, because it is one that is widely circulating amongst the GOP base, and one contradicted by actual data.

[pacearrow02]

The Covid data isn’t remotely accurate. TX alone has had 5800+ children hospitalized, 15% of which occurred in the last month alone.

Children’s hospitals are filling up with COVID patients. Yes, it is made worse by RSV, but COVID is more dangerous for kids than RSV. This is just a fact.

Curious what right wing source is pumping these RSV arguments, because it is one that is widely circulating amongst the GOP base, and one contradicted by actual data.

Sorry forgetful you’re not following the science on this one.  And I don’t think the argument is what one is worse the. The other.  They’re both bad, one has just led to unbelievable social and educational disruption.

[rocky_warrior]

Curious what right wing source is pumping these RSV arguments, because it is one that is widely circulating amongst the GOP base, and one contradicted by actual data.

I think I found one of the sources, or at least a mouthpiece:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/data-shows-kids-more-likely-get-rsv-than-covid-19-desantis-says/5N7E3RYHKRHORNS7UUTNJG3VSA/

“COVID, I view as a very minor risk,” DeSantis said. “RSV is a little more serious and it just shows certain things that are focused on versus not. I’ve had doctors tell me that parents have come in with kids who were sick that have gotten a negative COVID test and a positive RSV and the parents were relived at that.”

The governor said that data shows that fewer kids are getting sick with COVID-19 and they are more likely to get respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, than COVID-19.

[Pakuni]

Sorry forgetful you’re not following the science on this one.  And I don’t think the argument is what one is worse the. The other.  They’re both bad, one has just led to unbelievable social and educational disruption.

According to the CDC, kids severely infected by RSV often have pre-existing conditions.
So does that even count?

Those at greatest risk for severe illness from RSV include:
    Premature infants
    Very young infants, especially those 6 months and younger
    Children younger than 2 years old with chronic lung disease or congenital (present from birth) heart disease
    Children with weakened immune systems
    Children who have neuromuscular disorders, including those who have difficulty swallowing or clearing mucus secretions

https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/high-risk/infants-young-children.html

[pbiflyer]

If it’s such a bad problem, an easy fix out be to have kids….wear masks.