MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: MU82 on June 21, 2020, 10:10:13 PM
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Noose found in Bubba Wallace’s garage.
Plane flies over track hauling a confederate flag.
I’d say, “unbelievable,” but it’s quite believable.
Said Wallace: “This will not break me. I will not give in, nor will I back down.”
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Never a question of "if" - only when this would happen.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/day-of-reckoning-has-arrived-for-nascar-and-its-fans-112847929.html
"NASCAR’s good ol’ boys are indeed the foundation of NASCAR. The South’s blend of swagger, daredevil attitude, reckless talent and anti-authoritarianism — the very qualities that all the best NASCAR drivers from Richard Petty to Dale Earnhardt to Tony Stewart to Kyle Busch have embodied — transformed the sport from a way to kill time between moonshine runs into a national phenomenon.
But the racism that leeched onto the sport as it rose? No. That’s not part of the foundation. The racism is the termites eating away at NASCAR’s foundation. We’ve all spent 70 years ignoring the rot down there, pretending it wasn’t really all that bad, pretending it would go away one day. But rot doesn’t go away on its own. You’ve got to face it, and face the fact that you’ve let it grow."
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Noose found in Bubba Wallace’s garage.
Plane flies over track hauling a confederate flag.
I’d say, “unbelievable,” but it’s quite believable.
Said Wallace: “This will not break me. I will not give in, nor will I back down.”
It has to be an inside job considering how tight the security is in that area. Even drivers don't have access to it per ESPN. There should be plenty of cameras in there too.
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It has to be an inside job considering how tight the security is in that area. Even drivers don't have access to it per ESPN. There should be plenty of cameras in there too.
Here's hoping.
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This is amazing.
https://twitter.com/BradGalli/status/1275148644304519174
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This is amazing.
https://twitter.com/BradGalli/status/1275148644304519174
Truly incredible. Good for nascar for responding like this.
Also maybe don't take off the mask when you're about to be hugging a ton of people in a massive crowd... on tv with a ton of people watching
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This is amazing.
https://twitter.com/BradGalli/status/1275148644304519174
The tweet is.
The replies? Umm.... we'll see.
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meanwhile, a "white lives matter' banner flies over Burnley's match against Man City today.
The tweet is.
The replies? Umm.... we'll see.
the replies on Twitter and Facebook often make me weep for the state of humanity (of course, when the name is Mike1232492 they're posing out of a troll farm in Eastern Europe).
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This is amazing.
https://twitter.com/BradGalli/status/1275148644304519174
Got real dusty in my house while watching. Weird coincidence
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I think this represents a fascinating shift in NASCAR. Since 2000, guess how many NASCAR Cup champions have been from “the South”, the core of NASCAR’s base and popularity?....ONE. And that was Bobby Labonte in 2000. The rest have been from California, Michigan, Indiana, Nevada, Wisconsin and the NASCAR hot beds of NJ and CT. Sure most drivers move to NC and have been around Southern tracks and circuits most of their pro careers, but they didn’t necessarily grow up in that stereotypical NASCAR culture that has those elements of the Confederate flag and racism.
Racism is everywhere as we’ve seen. But I don’t think Jimmie Johnson starting out in El Cajon, CA, the Busch brothers in Vegas, or Joey Logan’s carting in CT associated the Stars and Bars intricately with stock car racing
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Wags, when I was saying it wasn't "unbelievable," I wasn't talking about NASCAR. I don't follow the sport and I really know very little about the competitors or the spirit of brotherhood (or lack thereof) between drivers and teams. I do know they have a lot of good ol' boy fans, but so do college and pro football.
I simply wasn't all that surprised that racism reared its ugly head there, and I won't be surprised to see white supremacists and other racists make a big show of things at other sporting events either once they get started up. Kneeling at football games will be a huge thing to some white folks, who will be whipped to a fever pitch by the guy who already has broken his proclamation of just a few weeks ago that he is "an ally of all peaceful protesters."
White supremacists always feel threatened -- it's always, "they" are taking over "our" country -- but especially so now, as Black Lives Matter and community movements actually start to make progress.
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Wags, when I was saying it wasn't "unbelievable," I wasn't talking about NASCAR. I don't follow the sport and I really know very little about the competitors or the spirit of brotherhood (or lack thereof) between drivers and teams. I do know they have a lot of good ol' boy fans, but so do college and pro football.
I simply wasn't all that surprised that racism reared its ugly head there, and I won't be surprised to see white supremacists and other racists make a big show of things at other sporting events either once they get started up. Kneeling at football games will be a huge thing to some white folks, who will be whipped to a fever pitch by the guy who already has broken his proclamation of just a few weeks ago that he is "an ally of all peaceful protesters."
White supremacists always feel threatened -- it's always, "they" are taking over "our" country -- but especially so now, as Black Lives Matter and community movements actually start to make progress.
I hear you. I think I was more reckoning how immediate and unified the movement with Wallace was. NASCAR sort of has the reputation that would lead people to not be entirely surprised about aggressive racism as you showed. But more reacting to the deviation of that reputation and the fans that drive it...and the drivers themselves.
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I hear you. I think I was more reckoning how immediate and unified the movement with Wallace was. NASCAR sort of has the reputation that would lead people to not be entirely surprised about aggressive racism as you showed. But more reacting to the deviation of that reputation and the fans that drive it...and the drivers themselves.
Yessir, I was impressed and heartened. That, and some of the other stuff we have seen out of some parts of the country, gives me hope that more progress can be made.
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Honesty question here... how have they not caught the party responsible yet? It's a very secure area, and I would guess there are plenty of cameras.
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One interesting thing about the South, they refuse to believe they lost the Civil War.
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Honesty question here... how have they not caught the party responsible yet? It's a very secure area, and I would guess there are plenty of cameras.
I mean, it's been a day. While it's a secure area, there are still hundreds of people coming and going in the garage area. A racing team is about 20 members, times 40 teams. Plus NASCAR officials and staff, sponsors, media, track employees, etc.
And given the intense interest, a rush to judgement does no one any good.
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I mean, it's been a day. While it's a secure area, there are still hundreds of people coming and going in the garage area. A racing team is about 20 members, times 40 teams. Plus NASCAR officials and staff, sponsors, media, track employees, etc.
And given the intense interest, a rush to judgement does no one any good.
I’ve seen multiple parties surmising that it was an “inside job” of sorts. Obviously not Wallace’s team itself, but another team staff or track staff with access and means to do it surreptitiously. As opposed to a fan who would waltz in with a rope
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No way it was a fan....in normal times, maybe as fans with enough money can get real close to the garages. In pandemic times, its absolutely some sort of employee who did it. To Pakuni's point there is not reason to rush this....whoever did this should be rightly pilloried in public, banned for life, etc and deservedly so, but given the nature of the internet if you get the wrong person, even initially, it would be a disaster.
It has been 48 hours and given how NASCAR has responded so far I actually have confidence they will get this right.
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No way it was a fan....in normal times, maybe as fans with enough money can get real close to the garages. In pandemic times, its absolutely some sort of employee who did it. To Pakuni's point there is not reason to rush this....whoever did this should be rightly pilloried in public, banned for life, etc and deservedly so, but given the nature of the internet if you get the wrong person, even initially, it would be a disaster.
It has been 48 hours and given how NASCAR has responded so far I actually have confidence they will get this right.
The thought crossed my mind that the perpetrator might have walked in the procession yesterday, hidden, but only for the moment, in plain sight. It was also not lost on me that Wallace drives the iconic #43 and that the man who gave him that ride is the greatest driver who has ever lived. It's why we judge individual people, not groups.
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The thought crossed my mind that the perpetrator might have walked in the procession yesterday, hidden, but only for the moment, in plain sight. It was also not lost on me that Wallace drives the iconic #43 and that the man who gave him that ride is the greatest driver who has ever lived. It's why we judge individual people, not groups.
Richard Petty has been avoiding public appearances because of his age and COVID, but made a point yesterday to be at Talladega to stand with Wallace. Character revealed.
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One interesting thing about the South, they refuse to believe they lost the Civil War.
You could not be more wrong.
The South is well aware that they lost the Civil War; there are simply a few people (much fewer than many Northerners think) that are still a little salty about it.
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You could not be more wrong.
The South is well aware that they lost the Civil War; there are simply a few people (much fewer than many Northerners think) that are still a little salty about it.
Yeah, I don't think the problem is that they don't know they lost.
The problem is some wish they hadn't. The Lost Cause remains strong.
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I think this represents a fascinating shift in NASCAR. Since 2000, guess how many NASCAR Cup champions have been from “the South”, the core of NASCAR’s base and popularity?....ONE. And that was Bobby Labonte in 2000. The rest have been from California, Michigan, Indiana, Nevada, Wisconsin and the NASCAR hot beds of NJ and CT. Sure most drivers move to NC and have been around Southern tracks and circuits most of their pro careers, but they didn’t necessarily grow up in that stereotypical NASCAR culture that has those elements of the Confederate flag and racism.
Racism is everywhere as we’ve seen. But I don’t think Jimmie Johnson starting out in El Cajon, CA, the Busch brothers in Vegas, or Joey Logan’s carting in CT associated the Stars and Bars intricately with stock car racing
I know this is only tangentially related to your point, but I have seen more stars and bars than I would have expected prior to moving to CT. Just reinforces that we all have a problem here...its not just the cities, the south or fill in your personal location.
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I know this is only tangentially related to your point, but I have seen more stars and bars than I would have expected prior to moving to CT. Just reinforces that we all have a problem here...its not just the cities, the south or fill in your personal location.
Frenns, they are here. Limited in number but present.
There's a very New England term for them. It's called Swamp Yankees.
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I know this is only tangentially related to your point, but I have seen more stars and bars than I would have expected prior to moving to CT. Just reinforces that we all have a problem here...its not just the cities, the south or fill in your personal location.
Part of me wonders if this is the result of families moving all over the country. I mean to southerners whose families have been in the states since the mid 1800s or even earlier I'm sure to them it's no different than an Irish flag or Italian flag hanging outside your door/bumper sticker/tattoo. Doesn't make it less racist or change the connotation around it but maybe that's why you see it around the northern states now.
My other theory is that people who live in more country towns identify the confederate flag as more of a flag showing country pride to separate themselves of the majority of city & suburban individuals around the country.
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Part of me wonders if this is the result of families moving all over the country. I mean to southerners whose families have been in the states since the mid 1800s or even earlier I'm sure to them it's no different than an Irish flag or Italian flag hanging outside your door/bumper sticker/tattoo. Doesn't make it less racist or change the connotation around it but maybe that's why you see it around the northern states now.
The individual living across the street from my inlaws doesnt fit into this bucket. It's more what MUFan referenced.
Conversely on topic, the racing culture here, particularly in northern CT, southern Mass into NH is rabid. Moreso than some places in the south where I've lived.
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The individual living across the street from my inlaws doesnt fit into this bucket. It's more what MUFan referenced.
Conversely on topic, the racing culture here, particularly in northern CT, southern Mass into NH is rabid. Moreso than some places in the south where I've lived.
Hmm well it was just a theory to give the benefit of the doubt. And yeah I dated a girl from Dorchester in Boston for years and her family was unbelievably racist so I fully believe it when you say it's bad in those areas.
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Hmm well it was just a theory to give the benefit of the doubt. And yeah I dated a girl from Dorchester in Boston for years and her family was unbelievably racist so I fully believe it when you say it's bad in those areas.
Um, yeah. You are too young to remember when they integrated Boston schools, but that was about as horrible a display of outright racism as I have ever seen, and I grew up in Tennessee.
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Point of order, the primary flag that people think with the Confederacy is not the stars and bars(that was the national flag of the Confederacy). It is the Confederate Battle Flag and/or flag of the Army of Northern Virginia(Army that Lee eventually commanded).
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Point of order, the primary flag that people think with the Confederacy is not the stars and bars(that was the national flag of the Confederacy). It is the Confederate Battle Flag and/or flag of the Army of Northern Virginia(Army that Lee eventually commanded).
Ah, you mean the flag that Georgia simply added a state seal to and called it a day is the actual flag of the Confederacy? And this flag was adopted in 2003?
At this point, the FotANV is the true symbol of the traitorous past that racists use as a beacon that shines a light their bigotry.
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Um, yeah. You are too young to remember when they integrated Boston schools, but that was about as horrible a display of outright racism as I have ever seen, and I grew up in Tennessee.
It's still bad. Just read the comments from black MLB players. Torii Hunter had a no-trade clause to Boston because of the racism.
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Well, I had a feeling this was going to end like Jussie Smollett since it just seemed to perfect.
Apparently it was half true.
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Someone want to explain in small sentences why there was a rope in a noose "shape" in the garage at any point in time?
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"The FBI has completed its investigation at Talladega Superspeedway and determined that Bubba Wallace was not the target of a hate crime. The FBI report concludes, and photographic evidence confirms, that the garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose had been positioned there since as early as last fall. This was obviously well before the 43 team's arrival and garage assignment. We appreciate the FBI's quick and thorough investigation and are thankful to learn that this was not an intentional, racist act against Bubba. We remain steadfast in our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all who love racing."
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Did I hear this right? Apparently Wallace didn’t see it or report it. It was a NASCAR official that did.
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Someone want to explain in small sentences why there was a rope in a noose "shape" in the garage at any point in time?
To open the door it was attached to?
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One interesting thing about the South, they refuse to believe they lost the Civil War.
William Faulkner would find that amusing
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Well, I had a feeling this was going to end like Jussie Smollett since it just seemed to perfect.
Apparently it was half true.
So you're saying bubba faked the whole thing?
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A very illuminating distinction is paying attention to people who are using this as an opportunity to slam Bubba Wallace.
Or commenting on the “dog and pony show” or whatever stupid name they give the show of solidarity yesterday.
Instead of being relieved that it may not be as deliberate and heinous of a racist act, it’s being used as a springboard for “everyone is overreacting to racism, snowflakes”
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Nothing like Smollett. Nothing.
But this does give racists cover to come out of the woodwork now.
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A very illuminating distinction is paying attention to people who are using this as an opportunity to slam Bubba Wallace.
Or commenting on the “dog and pony show” or whatever stupid name they give the show of solidarity yesterday.
Instead of being relieved that it may not be as deliberate and heinous of a racist act, it’s being used as a springboard for “everyone is overreacting to racism, snowflakes”
That's my great fear about this outcome.
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So you're saying bubba faked the whole thing?
Where did I ever say that?
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Where did I ever say that?
When you said you had a feeling that it would end like Jussie Smollett.
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That's my great fear about this outcome.
your "greatest fear"?? seriously? drama much? my greatest fear is what just happened. everyone jumped to concusions until the whole story was out and if anyone even dared to question it...well we all know how that goes.
nads, as a former "journalist" you should know better
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When you said you had a feeling that it would end like Jussie Smollett.
I said I had my suspecions about that. It all seemed to be to perfect, like Smollett.
I then stated it was half true, since a Nascar official freaked over a simple pull rope.
Never once did I say Wallace went and planted it, and then claimed it was a noose. I said it was very suspicious it would happen.
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your "greatest fear"?? seriously? drama much? my greatest fear is what just happened. everyone jumped to concusions until the whole story was out and if anyone even dared to question it...well we all know how that goes.
nads, as a former "journalist" you should know better
Yes. Because now some will use this an an example/excuse to undercut real/serious issues that exist
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I said I had my suspecions about that. It all seemed to be to perfect, like Smollett.
I then stated it was half true, since a Nascar official freaked over a simple pull rope.
Never once did I say Wallace went and planted it, and then claimed it was a noose. I said it was very suspicious it would happen.
Jayce you should choose your words more carefully. Smollette faked it. You implied it was half faked with the words you used. I am sure you didn’t mean to imply this but it is very easy to come to the conclusion above with the words you chose
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your "greatest fear"?? seriously? drama much? my greatest fear is what just happened. everyone jumped to concusions until the whole story was out and if anyone even dared to question it...well we all know how that goes.
nads, as a former "journalist" you should know better
Uhhhh...your greatest fear was that it was a misunderstanding and not a deliberate act??? 😳😳😳
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I’m getting the popcorn out for the remainder of this thread.
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Crean sucks
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Uhhhh...your greatest fear was that it was a misunderstanding and not a deliberate act??? 😳😳😳
you know what i mean sully my greatest fear are the knee jerk reactions and assuming guilt before innocence. my greatest fear is how the innocent police are being treated and the illiterate protesters taking down every statue they know nothing about. didn't they read the plaques next to the statues first or can they not read either
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you know what i mean sully my greatest fear are the knee jerk reactions and assuming guilt before innocence. my greatest fear is how the innocent police are being treated and the illiterate protesters taking down every statue they know nothing about. didn't they read the plaques next to the statues first or can they not read either
Seriously, GTFO. Like, I'm not kidding. I've sat on the sidelines while you've done your schtick taking a let bygones be bygones approach but this post is the end for me. At best you are an intentional provocateur who is an a$$hole and at worst you're a closet racist....no matter where you sit on that spectrum you don't have a place in this forum IMHO.
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This is nothing like Smollett.
The amount of racists exposing themselves on social media today about this. Yipes.
This below is a photo taken this week from Talladega:
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you know what i mean sully my greatest fear are the knee jerk reactions and assuming guilt before innocence. my greatest fear is how the innocent police are being treated and the illiterate protesters taking down every statue they know nothing about. didn't they read the plaques next to the statues first or can they not read either
Um. What?
No one was assumed guilty in this incident. Not one single person was accused.
So why are you dragging your other talking points here? This topic has nothing to do with statues. Did you even read it? Or can’t you read either?
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your "greatest fear"?? seriously? drama much? my greatest fear is what just happened. everyone jumped to concusions until the whole story was out and if anyone even dared to question it...well we all know how that goes.
nads, as a former "journalist" you should know better
The confederate flag being flown overhead and wanting to “bring back NASCAR” was probably just a misunderstanding by libs jumping to conclusions too fast.
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I will say, if the reporting is accurate, this is a very positive sign for society. Whoever discovered the garage door pull probably would have walked past it 3 months ago without giving it a second thought but the fact that they thought enough to surface it is great. That is an example of being aware of your unconcious bias.
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Seriously, GTFO. Like, I'm not kidding. I've sat on the sidelines while you've done your schtick taking a let bygones be bygones approach but this post is the end for me. At best you are an intentional provocateur who is an a$$hole and at worst you're a closet racist....no matter where you sit on that spectrum you don't have a place in this forum IMHO.
Closet? I think he’s been out for quite a while.
Otherwise, BRAVO!!
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your "greatest fear"?? seriously? drama much? my greatest fear is what just happened. everyone jumped to concusions until the whole story was out and if anyone even dared to question it...well we all know how that goes.
nads, as a former "journalist" you should know better
Who jumped to conclusions in accusing anybody?
I know enough to know what you are.
There. NOW I've accused somebody.
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Seriously, GTFO. Like, I'm not kidding. I've sat on the sidelines while you've done your schtick taking a let bygones be bygones approach but this post is the end for me. At best you are an intentional provocateur who is an a$$hole and at worst you're a closet racist....no matter where you sit on that spectrum you don't have a place in this forum IMHO.
No, that would require a brain capable of reason and planning. He's just a dumbass that regurgitates whatever he hears on Fox and Limbaugh.
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I will say, if the reporting is accurate, this is a very positive sign for society. Whoever discovered the garage door pull probably would have walked past it 3 months ago without giving it a second thought but the fact that they thought enough to surface it is great. That is an example of being aware of your unconcious bias.
I don’t know, Eng. Maybe you’re right, but when a garage door pull rope that’s been in place forever is assumed to be a noose because a black man is using the garage I’m not sure that’s something to celebrate.
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I don’t know, Eng. Maybe you’re right, but when a garage door pull rope that’s been in place forever is assumed to be a noose because a black man is using the garage I’m not sure that’s something to celebrate.
I think you've got that wrong. It was a noose. That was being used as a garage door pull.
"The FBI report concludes, and photographic evidence confirms, that the garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose had been positioned there since as early as last fall."
And last fall is hardly "forever".
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I think you've got that wrong. It was a noose. That was being used as a garage door pull.
"The FBI report concludes, and photographic evidence confirms, that the garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose had been positioned there since as early as last fall."
And last fall is hardly "forever".
I was unaware that the rope was fashioned like a noose. Of course that changes things. Apologies.
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In the meantime....
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nascar/news/bubba-wallace-noose-mike-skinner/tl4wwe3qo3ih1k3jmrf64w62w
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I have severe guilt for not driving to Oklahoma to help my brother move out following an ugly divorce. Finding this MFer and beating the crap out might help me.
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In the meantime....
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nascar/news/bubba-wallace-noose-mike-skinner/tl4wwe3qo3ih1k3jmrf64w62w
Perfect.
For the same people who think Obama's election "proves" there's no such thing as systemic racism in America, the fact that there really wasn't a noose placed in Bubba Wallace's garage as a racist statement or threat "proves" that racism isn't really an issue at all anymore.
Except you have thousands - maybe millions - of people just like this arse-wipe, who blames Wallace for having "singlehandedly destroyed" NASCAR and who wishes they would have tied the noose to Wallace "and drug him around the pits."
As disgusting as that seems, it's OK ... once called out, he later said he "loves everyone" and "this was not about race at all." So again, America's all good on the race issue.
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I think you've got that wrong. It was a noose. That was being used as a garage door pull.
"The FBI report concludes, and photographic evidence confirms, that the garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose had been positioned there since as early as last fall."
And last fall is hardly "forever".
I'm not entirely convinced it was "fashioned" as a noose....the noose knot is a self-constricting knot(which is why it's used the way it is) not sure why a garage pull would be tied in that type of knot unless you wanted to re-tie it every day. A bowline would be a much more appropriate knot.
*as an Eagle Scout and avid sailor I know lots of things about knots
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Perfect.
For the same people who think Obama's election "proves" there's no such thing as systemic racism in America, the fact that there really wasn't a noose placed in Bubba Wallace's garage as a racist statement or threat "proves" that racism isn't really an issue at all anymore.
Except you have thousands - maybe millions - of people just like this arse-wipe, who blames Wallace for having "singlehandedly destroyed" NASCAR and who wishes they would have tied the noose to Wallace "and drug him around the pits."
As disgusting as that seems, it's OK ... once called out, he later said he "loves everyone" and "this was not about race at all." So again, America's all good on the race issue.
Bubba Wallace is responsible for restrictor plates and bland tracks?
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The video making the rounds on early morning television clearly shows a noose hanging in a stall. It could not possibly be mistaken for anything else.
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Bubba Wallace is responsible for restrictor plates and bland tracks?
And all left turns. You know dem "marxists."
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The video making the rounds on early morning television clearly shows a noose hanging in a stall. It could not possibly be mistaken for anything else.
So someone did this eight months ago hoping that it would go unnoticed until Bubba Wallace was randowmly assigned this garage?
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So someone did this eight months ago hoping that Bubba Wallace would eventually be assigned this garage?
At least my understanding is that it’s now not about targeting Wallace. The question is more about why was there a rope tied like a noose in the first place.
Some say this is pretty common in NASCAR garages to pull the garage door. If so, why did the FBI need to be involved? There are still a lot of questions with this one.
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So someone did this eight months ago hoping that it would go unnoticed until Bubba Wallace was randowmly assigned this garage?
Of course not. I can however see why this happened. If Im Bubba, I am totally on edge/lookout.
I have to say though - it looks like a noose. Why did someone do that and why did no one take it down?
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So someone did this eight months ago hoping that it would go unnoticed until Bubba Wallace was randowmly assigned this garage?
No. My understanding is that this (noose for door pulls) may have been something that has existed in Nascar in general. ...such as Confederate Flags etc....I don't think it appears Wallace was targeted, but it appears at least to an extent, that having a noose as a door pull ir whatever reason was not out of the question in Nascar. And similar to other racist symbols it needs to go.
Perhaps this was put there in general with malicious intent. Perhaps it was put there with ignorance to its symbolism and representation. It doesn't matter.
In this situation, someone other than Wallace saw it and reacted accordingly. Hopefully the solution is that we don't see or hear of a noose in Nascar (or anywhere else) moving forward.
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No. My understanding is that this (noose for door pulls) may have been something that has existed in Nascar in general. ...such as Confederate Flags etc....I don't think it appears Wallace was targeted, but it appears at least to an extent, that having a noose as a door pull ir whatever reason was not out of the question in Nascar. And similar to other racist symbols it needs to go.
Perhaps this was put there in general with malicious intent. Perhaps it was put there with ignorance to its symbolism and representation. It doesn't matter.
In this situation, someone other than Wallace saw it and reacted accordingly. Hopefully the solution is that we don't see or hear of a noose in Nascar (or anywhere else) moving forward.
I am certainly not defending the practice, but if that is the case, why has this never been brought up before like the Confederate flags were? No one thought, "Hey, as long as we are getting rid of racist symbols, let's lose all the noose garage door pulls?"
Also, if it were a common practice, no one said, "Oh, yeah, I forgot that people do this. Let's get rid of it"? Instead, they immediately call the FBI?
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I am certainly not defending the practice, but if that is the case, why has this never been brought up before like the Confederate flags were? No one thought, "Hey, as long as we are getting rid of racist symbols, let's lose all the noose garage door pulls?"
Also, if it were a common practice, no one said, "Oh, yeah, I forgot that people do this. Let's get rid of it"? Instead, they immediately call the FBI?
I don't know.
But what I do know is if the end result is less racism and more empowerment for black people and people of color in Nascar, I'm all for it. No one was falsely accused, the story wasn't manufactured by Wallace.
I don't know enough of the specifics of this case nor Nascar. But I've seen many noose defenders suggesting it isn't the first time or completely unheard of in the sport. This time it happened to involve a black driver. It would make sense the response would be more significant.
The extra racial attention and scrutiny is w good thing here.
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I don't know.
But what I do know is if the end result is less racism and more empowerment for black people and people of color in Nascar, I'm all for it. No one was falsely accused, the story wasn't manufactured by Wallace.
I don't know enough of the specifics of this case nor Nascar. But I've seen many noose defenders suggesting it isn't the first time or completely unheard of in the sport. This time it happened to involve a black driver. It would make sense the response would be more significant.
The extra racial attention and scrutiny is w good thing here.
Wallace says noose-like garage pulls are not common in NASCAR.
“The image that I have seen of what was hanging in my garage is not a garage pull. I’ve been racing all my life. We’ve raced out of hundreds of garages that never had garage pulls like that. It was a noose. Wasn’t directed at me, but somebody tied a noose.”
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Wallace says noose-like garage pulls are not common in NASCAR.
“The image that I have seen of what was hanging in my garage is not a garage pull. I’ve been racing all my life. We’ve raced out of hundreds of garages that never had garage pulls like that. It was a noose. Wasn’t directed at me, but somebody tied a noose.”
And, all it takes is one noose. All it takes is one Confederate flag, etc...
I saw video early this morning of what was clearly a noose.
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And, all it takes is one noose racist idiot.
FIFY
I am glad to hear that this is not common practice, and anyone who uses this incident to confirm their biases of southerners or NASCAR is also an idiot.
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Not sure why this is a thing any more. Some asshat might have made a noose for whatever reason and 9 months later it's a huge deal.
I guarantee it was not the only noose created in the past 9 months. Sure, it's a terrible symbol of inhumanity. Meanwhile the over/under of people getting Nazi tattoos today is 100.
Not to belittle either .. just saying, plenty of every-day awful to go around.
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I'm not entirely convinced it was "fashioned" as a noose....the noose knot is a self-constricting knot(which is why it's used the way it is) not sure why a garage pull would be tied in that type of knot unless you wanted to re-tie it every day. A bowline would be a much more appropriate knot.
*as an Eagle Scout, avid sailor, and enthusiastic kinbaku aficionado I know lots of things about knots
Eng's Eagle Scout Project: Operation Shibari
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/229b8e7bd0124c8cdbdd5c34c786bbe6/tumblr_mn0u3clWZj1sojcj1o1_500.jpg)
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Not sure why this is a thing any more. Some asshat might have made a noose for whatever reason and 9 months later it's a huge deal.
I guarantee it was not the only noose created in the past 9 months. Sure, it's a terrible symbol of inhumanity. Meanwhile the over/under of people getting Nazi tattoos today is 100.
Not to belittle either .. just saying, plenty of every-day awful to go around.
Viewers. Several million people watched the race. What channel carries the Nazi tattoo sport?
The noose, the flags, etc....the culture of the sport, .....there is timing and opportunity for long overdue big changes across the sport to change both perception and reality. Hopefully the race topic is a daily thing moving forward with the sport. That would be great.
Gotta start somewhere instead of saying oh well these things happen daily in a variety of ways in society. One by one keep topics alive until changes are made. This is a good thing.
It isn't an either/or situation. But less people will physically see those 100 nazi tattoos today.
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Not sure why this is a thing any more. Some asshat might have made a noose for whatever reason and 9 months later it's a huge deal.
I guarantee it was not the only noose created in the past 9 months. Sure, it's a terrible symbol of inhumanity. Meanwhile the over/under of people getting Nazi tattoos today is 100.
Not to belittle either .. just saying, plenty of every-day awful to go around.
Well, it's a thing today because 24 hours ago everybody was abuzz about what happened Monday and still thought the noose really was a racial epithet aimed at Wallace. So just naturally, from a news-cycle standpoint, it's a thing.
It's also a thing because the d-bags who think "reverse racism" actually is worse than real racism got to celebrate: "Yay! It's another Smollett! The coloreds were trying to trap us - they're such racists."
Otherwise, I agree mostly with what shoothoops says. One thing I don't want us all to do now is shrug our shoulders and say, "Whatever." Some momentum has built up. Actual change, albeit it small so far, is taking place all over the country. I don't want that momentum stalled.
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I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."
It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.
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I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."
It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.
And I think some others, (at least me) are saying.....that doesn't matter. A noose is a noose left 9 months ago or today, intentionally racist or ignorant, it doesn't matter. It presents an opportunity to address racism in Nascar. It really isn't a foul ball in any way in my opinion.
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You aren't wrong
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Has anyone published a picture of the noose?
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I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."
It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.
I'll split the difference and say it went from a grand slam to a line-drive double into the gap.
Even in the aftermath of the "non-story," we still get to further the discussion because the "non-story" was a story for a news cycle or 2.
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Has anyone published a picture of the noose?
Yes. It was posted earlier in the thread. It’s either the most unique garage door rope ever or it’s a noose. You can decide.
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Has anyone published a picture of the noose?
I saw it on cnn’s website this morning. This article has a still. I think there is a video that is a little crisper.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/bubba-wallace-response-fbi-hate-crime-investigation/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/bubba-wallace-response-fbi-hate-crime-investigation/index.html)
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I saw it on cnn’s website this morning. This article has a still. I think there is a video that is a little crisper.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/bubba-wallace-response-fbi-hate-crime-investigation/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/bubba-wallace-response-fbi-hate-crime-investigation/index.html)
that's a goddamn noose.
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I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."
It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.
thank you topper-good analogy.
i am glad our FBI got to the bottom of this and clarified it. i believe most of us would all agree that a noose is not a good look for anyone symbolizing torture and death
wouldn't bubba have noticed it as he was assigned garage #4? the "noose" had been there since october 2019 and i did hear that these "rope arrangements" are present in many of the garages as a means to open and close the doors, i'm assuming, if the automatic door opener was malfunctioning
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thank you topper-good analogy.
i am glad our FBI got to the bottom of this and clarified it. i believe most of us would all agree that a noose is not a good look for anyone symbolizing torture and death
wouldn't bubba have noticed it as he was assigned garage #4? the "noose" had been there since october 2019 and i did hear that these "rope arrangements" are present in many of the garages as a means to open and close the doors, i'm assuming, if the automatic door opener was malfunctioning
You sonuvabitchin' racist! How dare you stray from the path of truth! How dare you!
Q: A collection of nooses or rope properly stowed for a zesty kinbaku-bi session?
(http://www.jaderope.eu/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/1000x1000/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/k/i/kinbaku-rope-bundle_3.jpg)
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thank you topper-good analogy.
i am glad our FBI got to the bottom of this and clarified it. i believe most of us would all agree that a noose is not a good look for anyone symbolizing torture and death
wouldn't bubba have noticed it as he was assigned garage #4? the "noose" had been there since october 2019 and i did hear that these "rope arrangements" are present in many of the garages as a means to open and close the doors, i'm assuming, if the automatic door opener was malfunctioning
Why do you hesitate to call it a noose? Instead you say "rope arrangement(s)"- From the FBI and US Attorney:
In a joint statement, U.S. Attorney Jay E. Town and FBI Special Agent in Charge Johnnie Sharp, Jr. said, "Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."
This wasn't a "rope pull" being mistaken for a noose. It was a noose, being used as a rope pull. You have to be dense to be claiming otherwise, when, well, facts.
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Why do you hesitate to call it a noose? Instead you say "rope arrangement(s)"- From the FBI and US Attorney:
In a joint statement, U.S. Attorney Jay E. Town and FBI Special Agent in Charge Johnnie Sharp, Jr. said, "Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."
This wasn't a "rope pull" being mistaken for a noose. It was a noose, being used as a rope pull. You have to be dense to be claiming otherwise, when, well, facts.
This. Obviously.
It gets frustrating when so many embrace alternative facts, deny that systemic racism exists, and believe "reverse racism" is worse than actual racism. So wrapped up in their denial that they can't even call a noose a noose.
It's difficult to have conversations that move our country forward when tens of millions of people long for the pre-Civil Rights Era days.
But the country IS moving forward, no matter how much those tens of millions of people don't like it.
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Why do you hesitate to call it a noose? Instead you say "rope arrangement(s)"- From the FBI and US Attorney:
In a joint statement, U.S. Attorney Jay E. Town and FBI Special Agent in Charge Johnnie Sharp, Jr. said, "Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."
This wasn't a "rope pull" being mistaken for a noose. It was a noose, being used as a rope pull. You have to be dense to be claiming otherwise, when, well, facts.
first off, i called it a noose. secondly, because the word noose has mainly one connotation, that being an instrument of death and torture. i secondarily referred to it as a "rope arrangement". the rope arrangement term is essentially what they were as they were throughout the nascar garages. do you refer to all the rope loops you have around your house as nooses? hey ma, could you give my noose a pull because the garage door opener seems to be jammed. i don't think i've ever thought of rope loops as nooses. if you do, you're a racist. don't get me started on the use of euphemisms. you guys are the masters of them.
one more thing-when others do not think the way you do or have alternate opinions, are they all "dense"? your elitist attitude is one of the reasons civil conversations are difficult if not impossible to come by here. you as one of the mods, could help foster more civil dialogue by refraining from the personal attacks on those you may disagree with. you just gave your guys the "thumbs up" to belittle those who don't hold the same opinion or think the same way. in other words insult us. it's no wonder this board is deteriorating fast
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first off, i called it a noose. secondly, because the word noose has mainly one connotation, that being an instrument of death and torture. i secondarily referred to it as a "rope arrangement". the rope arrangement term is essentially what they were as they were throughout the nascar garages. do you refer to all the rope loops you have around your house as nooses? hey ma, could you give my noose a pull because the garage door opener seems to be jammed. i don't think i've ever thought of rope loops as nooses. if you do, you're a racist. don't get me started on the use of euphemisms. you guys are the masters of them.
one more thing-when others do not think the way you do or have alternate opinions, are they all "dense"? your elitist attitude is one of the reasons civil conversations are difficult if not impossible to come by here. you as one of the mods, could help foster more civil dialogue by refraining from the personal attacks on those you may disagree with. you just gave your guys the "thumbs up" to belittle those who don't hold the same opinion or think the same way. in other words insult us. it's no wonder this board is deteriorating fast
You seem to think that there is a reasonable disagreement in this situation. There isn't. There is racism, and there isn't. Not all rope loops are nooses, but all nooses are rope loops. If you can't see the difference, you aren't trying to. This is why you were called dense. What would you prefer to be called, so that we can continue a civil conversation?
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first off, i called it a noose. secondly, because the word noose has mainly one connotation, that being an instrument of death and torture. i secondarily referred to it as a "rope arrangement". the rope arrangement term is essentially what they were as they were throughout the nascar garages. do you refer to all the rope loops you have around your house as nooses? hey ma, could you give my noose a pull because the garage door opener seems to be jammed. i don't think i've ever thought of rope loops as nooses. if you do, you're a racist. don't get me started on the use of euphemisms. you guys are the masters of them.
one more thing-when others do not think the way you do or have alternate opinions, are they all "dense"? your elitist attitude is one of the reasons civil conversations are difficult if not impossible to come by here. you as one of the mods, could help foster more civil dialogue by refraining from the personal attacks on those you may disagree with. you just gave your guys the "thumbs up" to belittle those who don't hold the same opinion or think the same way. in other words insult us. it's no wonder this board is deteriorating fast
First, according to one of the mods, it actually has more traffic than any other time in the summer, so it isn't deteriorating fast by any means.
Second, you put "noose" in quotes. When you do that, you it sounds like you are suggesting it isn't actually a noose. Above, you made comments about "assuming guilt before innocence" despite the fact that no one had been assumed guilty of anything. And then you brought up statues. And that's why you get called out on things. You often devolve into a series of talking points. That's not "civil conversation." That's being a parrot.
The fact that it was a noose is not a dispute. It was a noose. The motivations behind whomever tied the noose, and whether or not he/she undersood why it was a problem is the question. And I think everyone is relieved that it wasn't directed specifically at Wallace.
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You seem to think that there is a reasonable disagreement in this situation. There isn't. There is racism, and there isn't. Not all rope loops are nooses, but all nooses are rope loops. If you can't see the difference, you aren't trying to. This is why you were called dense. What would you prefer to be called, so that we can continue a civil conversation?
actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out. then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose. the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated. call it a rope handle then. a noose is an instrument of terror and death. this turned out not to be a noose. no need to call anyone anything
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actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out. then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose. the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated. call it a rope handle then. a noose is an instrument of terror and death. this turned out not to be a noose. no need to call anyone anything
But it is a noose.
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actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out. then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose. the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated. call it a rope handle then. a noose is an instrument of terror and death. this turned out not to be a noose. no need to call anyone anything
It's a noose. The definition is "a loop with a slipknot that binds closer the more it is drawn."
It may have been tied for completely innocent reasons, but it is a noose.
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Rocket, I apologize for name calling, you are correct that I should be above that and I don't condone it.
I'll ban myself for the rest of the day.
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actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out. then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose. the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated. call it a rope handle then. a noose is an instrument of terror and death. this turned out not to be a noose. no need to call anyone anything
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/noose?s=t
noose[ noos ]SHOW IPA
SEE SYNONYMS FOR noose ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
a loop with a running knot, as in a snare, lasso, or hangman's halter, that tightens as the rope is pulled.
a tie or bond; snare.
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actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out. then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose. the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated. call it a rope handle then. a noose is an instrument of terror and death. this turned out not to be a noose. no need to call anyone anything
Say what? It was a noose. So everyone can call it what it is and was, a noose. Noose noose noose noose noose. Say it with me. There are photos, video of the noose.
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actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out. then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose. the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated. call it a rope handle then. a noose is an instrument of terror and death. this turned out not to be a noose. no need to call anyone anything
How many garage ropes have you ever seen tied like that?
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No noose is good noose.
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No noose is good noose.
Classic movie reference
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Yup
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I’m with Topper. Grand Slam that became a foul ball. This was an Emily Litella (remember Gilda Radner?) moment - a big story that the facts turn into a “never mind”. Except Al Sharpton and his minions on Scoop can’t/won’t admit the obvious.
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The obvious is that someone tied a noose as a door pull in 2019.
Stupid.
Bubba thought it was directed at him. It probably wasn't, but an easy mistake to make.
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Except Al Sharpton and his minions on Scoop can’t/won’t admit the obvious.
Beneath you, or so I thought.
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I’m with Topper. Grand Slam that became a foul ball. This was an Emily Litella (remember Gilda Radner?) moment - a big story that the facts turn into a “never mind”. Except Al Sharpton and his minions on Scoop can’t/won’t admit the obvious.
Admit what? I don't think anyone is disputing what you are saying. The only dispute is some refuse to call it what it was. It was a noose, but one seemingly not done to intimidate, and clearly not directed at Bubba Wallace. Lesson learned? Don't tie garage pulls in the shape of a noose.
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The obvious is that someone tied a noose as a door pull in 2019.
Stupid.
Bubba thought it was directed at him. It probably wasn't, but an easy mistake to make.
Just to set the record straight, Bubba is not the person who saw the noose or reported the noose. Efforts to paint this as a Smollet situation, or paint him as a Smollet figure, are spurious.
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I’m with Topper. Grand Slam that became a foul ball. This was an Emily Litella (remember Gilda Radner?) moment - a big story that the facts turn into a “never mind”. Except Al Sharpton and his minions on Scoop can’t/won’t admit the obvious.
Imo it definitely turned into a foul ball. But i don't think it should be faulted at Wallace. He didn't report it. Someone tells me they found a noose in the garage I imagine I'd believe it. After the photo I'd still believe it if I never noticed the rope before, was new to that garage, hadn't been there in months and was on high alert with everything happening.
Definitely foul, but far from a Justin Smollett case.
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Just to set the record straight, Bubba is not the person who saw the noose or reported the noose. Efforts to paint this as a Smollet situation, or paint him as a Smollet figure, are spurious.
Concur.
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Marty Smith posts a photo of the noose so that we are all clear:
https://twitter.com/MartySmithESPN/status/1276188868711243777?s=19
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Marty Smith posts a photo of the noose so that we are all clear:
https://twitter.com/MartySmithESPN/status/1276188868711243777?s=19
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbXvGA0UMAAUeTT?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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Marty Smith posts a photo of the noose so that we are all clear:
https://twitter.com/MartySmithESPN/status/1276188868711243777?s=19
I'm no expert in knots, but it sure looks like a noose to me.
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I’m with Topper. Grand Slam that became a foul ball. This was an Emily Litella (remember Gilda Radner?) moment - a big story that the facts turn into a “never mind”. Except Al Sharpton and his minions on Scoop can’t/won’t admit the obvious.
The only "not admitting of the obvious" is those saying that this is not a noose:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbXvGA0UMAAUeTT?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Everyone agrees that Bubba Watson was not the target of a hate crime. The noose predates him being assigned to the garage by months. But it is also true that someone hung a noose in that garage and we don't know what that person's original intent was. Some have said that its a garage door puller but then the NASCAR President said this:
https://twitter.com/MartySmithESPN/status/1276194402302640129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1276194402302640129&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbssports.com%2Fnascar%2Fnews%2Fnascar-releases-photo-of-rope-fashioned-as-noose-found-in-bubba-wallaces-garage-at-talladega%2F
NASCAR president Steve Phelps says NASCAR conducted a "thorough sweep of all 29 tracks where they race, and 1684 garage stalls, they found only 11 total ropes that had a pulldown rope tied in a knot, and just one noose: The one in Bubba Wallace garage."
Maybe whoever hung this noose truly thought this was best way to set up a garage door pull. Maybe they hung it to intimidate a different person of color who worked in the garage previously. Maybe the hung it because they thought using a symbol of hate as door pull was funny. We don't know. But if this is truly an innocent door pull, I question why only 1 out 1,684 garage stalls use a noose for that purpose
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Marty Smith posts a photo of the noose so that we are all clear:
https://twitter.com/MartySmithESPN/status/1276188868711243777?s=19
But ... but ... but ... how do we know that's the actual rope in question? Maybe it was photoshopped. Maybe Bubba put it there himself. Anything to put the white man down, as has been the case in America for centuries.
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Admit what? I don't think anyone is disputing what you are saying. The only dispute is some refuse to call it what it was. It was a noose, but one seemingly not done to intimidate, and clearly not directed at Bubba Wallace. Lesson learned? Don't tie garage pulls in the shape of a noose.
Reverend Al still isn’t satisfied that Bubba wasn’t assigned garage #4 (or 14, can’t remember) by racists who knew the garage pull was fashioned as a noose. And until that unprovable can be proven (impossible) he’s not satisfied. I can’t say I’ve seen anyone here make the reverend’s exact argument, but the logic/methodology he uses is sure familiar.
BTW, I’m certainly not referring to you, Pakuni, Tower or anyone else interested in having honest conversations on complex problems.
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Seems like a leap for sure Lenny.
I don't know, I don't find this to be a nothing situation.
1. Bubba saw a noose...if I were him I would be shocked/worried too
2. Everyone in Nascar rallied around him
3. The federal government immediately investigated and determined it wasnt intentional toward him
None of those things are surprising and i think the steps along the way show positive actions/intent for those involved.
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That's a unnatural carnal knowledgeing noose.
Was it meant for bubba? No.
Was it meant to intimidate someone? I don't believe so.
Was it some inside joke/someone thought it would be funny? Probably.
But it's a unnatural carnal knowledgeing noose.
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Reverend Al still isn’t satisfied that Bubba wasn’t assigned garage #4 (or 14, can’t remember) by racists who knew the garage pull was fashioned as a noose. And until that unprovable can be proven (impossible) he’s not satisfied. I can’t say I’ve seen anyone here make the reverend’s exact argument, but the logic/methodology he uses is sure familiar.
BTW, I’m certainly not referring to you, Pakuni, Tower or anyone else interested in having honest conversations on complex problems.
He's still relevant? He's about a legit as the Fox News talking heads who said it isn't a noose, just a "garage pull."
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Reverend Al still isn’t satisfied that Bubba wasn’t assigned garage #4 (or 14, can’t remember) by racists who knew the garage pull was fashioned as a noose. And until that unprovable can be proven (impossible) he’s not satisfied. I can’t say I’ve seen anyone here make the reverend’s exact argument, but the logic/methodology he uses is sure familiar.
BTW, I’m certainly not referring to you, Pakuni, Tower or anyone else interested in having honest conversations on complex problems.
It was a noose. A noose represents racist symbolism. It was hanging in his stall. Noose=bad. Learn the history of American Lynching. This isn’t complex in any way.
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He's still relevant?
He spoke at Floyd funeral service. He has his own show on MSNBC. He’s a regular contributor there and on other networks. So, yeah.
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He spoke at Floyd funeral service. He has his own show on MSNBC. He’s a regular contributor there and on other networks. So, yeah.
So who are his minions on Scoop?
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Reverend Al still isn’t satisfied that Bubba wasn’t assigned garage #4 (or 14, can’t remember) by racists who knew the garage pull was fashioned as a noose. And until that unprovable can be proven (impossible) he’s not satisfied. I can’t say I’ve seen anyone here make the reverend’s exact argument, but the logic/methodology he uses is sure familiar.
BTW, I’m certainly not referring to you, Pakuni, Tower or anyone else interested in having honest conversations on complex problems.
I don't "hate" Al Sharpton, but I'm no fan. He has a long history of anti-Semitism, for one thing. And he often has knee-jerk reactions to things. I have never watched even one second of his MSNBC show, nor do I see why I ever would. I have heard him interviewed; I've liked some things he's said and disliked others. He is passionate about trying to curtail systemic racism.
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Still a grand slam in my opinion. Noose was hung in October 2019. Undoubtedly, several people saw it, used it, left it, and said nothing. The fact that a white driver brought it up in a sport that has been home to racist behaviors is fantastic. We should not be celebrating that it was hung in 2019 instead of this past week and not directed at Bubba. We should be celebrating that a racist, violent symbol was finally addressed, removed, and the drivers made a symbolic statement. Things are a changing.
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Still a grand slam in my opinion. Noose was hung in October 2019. Undoubtedly, several people saw it, used it, left it, and said nothing. The fact that a white driver brought it up in a sport that has been home to racist behaviors is fantastic. We should not be celebrating that it was hung in 2019 instead of this past week and not directed at Bubba. We should be celebrating that a racist, violent symbol was finally addressed, removed, and the drivers made a symbolic statement. Things are a changing.
Very nice sentiment, and a solid point.
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So who are his minions on Scoop?
Not going to go there. Not looking for fights, probably said to much already.
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He spoke at Floyd funeral service. He has his own show on MSNBC. He’s a regular contributor there and on other networks. So, yeah.
Grifters gonna grift, whether they're on the right or left.
I hadn't watched MSNBC or CNN in years until the virus struck, but I haven't seen Sharpton's show since I still have to work full time.
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Rocket, I apologize for name calling, you are correct that I should be above that and I don't condone it.
I'll ban myself for the rest of the day.
You da man rock! Accepted!
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I don't "hate" Al Sharpton, but I'm no fan. He has a long history of anti-Semitism, for one thing. And he often has knee-jerk reactions to things. I have never watched even one second of his MSNBC show, nor do I see why I ever would. I have heard him interviewed; I've liked some things he's said and disliked others. He is passionate about trying to curtail systemic racism.
He and Reverend Jessie Jackson are opportunists who have done little to improve our society.
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First, according to one of the mods, it actually has more traffic than any other time in the summer, so it isn't deteriorating fast by any means.
Second, you put "noose" in quotes. When you do that, you it sounds like you are suggesting it isn't actually a noose. Above, you made comments about "assuming guilt before innocence" despite the fact that no one had been assumed guilty of anything. And then you brought up statues. And that's why you get called out on things. You often devolve into a series of talking points. That's not "civil conversation." That's being a parrot.
The fact that it was a noose is not a dispute. It was a noose. The motivations behind whomever tied the noose, and whether or not he/she undersood why it was a problem is the question. And I think everyone is relieved that it wasn't directed specifically at Wallace.
Traffic and deterioration are tree different tings eynahhh?
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He and Reverend Jessie Jackson are opportunists who have done little to improve our society.
I'll take your word for it. I don't follow either of them closely enough to know.
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He and Reverend Jessie Jackson are opportunists who have done little to improve our society.
Yeah honestly I think the theme for both of them the last thirty years has been “opportunistic.”
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Yeah honestly I think the theme for both of them the last thirty years has been “opportunistic.”
That or exploitation artists
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The Sons of Confederate Veterans say they were responsible for flying the Defund NASCAR banner, and their racist flag, over the race track. In a defiant, bloviating, lie-filled statement, their leader sounded like the uninformed racist he is.
https://www.columbiadailyherald.com/news/20200623/columbia-based-confederate-group-says-it-authorized-defund-nascar-banner-over-talladega-race-track
The Sons of Confederate Veterans says they were responsible for the “DEFUND NASCAR” Confederate banner that flew over the Talladega Superspeedway on Sunday.
The Columbia-based group hired a small airplane to pass over the track before the race, which was postponed Sunday and completed Monday. NASCAR banned Confederate flags from its events last week at the request of driver Bubba Wallace, who is Black.
“NASCAR’s banning the display of the Confederate battle flag by its fans is nothing less than trampling upon Southerners’ First Amendment Right of free expression,” Sons of Confederate Veterans Commander in Chief Paul C. Gramling Jr. said. “This un-American act shall not go unchallenged. [On Sunday], members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans’ Confederate Air Force displayed its disapproval of NASCAR’s trampling upon the First Amendment Rights of Southerners. During and before the start of the NASCAR race in Talladega, Alabama, race, our plane flew a banner announcing a drive to ‘defund NASCAR.’
“It is the hope of the Sons of Confederate Veterans that NASCAR fans will be allowed the fundamental American right of displaying pride in their family and heritage. The Sons of Confederate Veterans is proud of the diversity of the Confederate military and our modern Southland. We believe NASCAR’s slandering of our Southern heritage only further divides our nation. The Sons of Confederate Veterans will continue to defend not only our right but the Right of all Americans to celebrate their heritage. We trust NASCAR will do the same.”
NASCAR did not acknowledge the plane or the banner. Executive vice president Steve O’Donnell tweeted a picture Sunday of Black and White hands shaking: “You won’t see a photo of a jackass flying a flag over the track here ... but you will see this ... Hope EVERYONE enjoys the race today.”
Signs prohibiting Confederate flags were posted outside entrances at Talladega Superspeedway before the GEICO 500. It was the second NASCAR race to allow spectators in wake of the COVID-19 pandemic. Tickets were limited to 5,000 pre-selected fans.
Gramling said the flyover was paid for by the group’s private donors. He said the decision harks back to 20 years ago, when the group flew over Chattanooga with protest messages when it had trouble hanging the flag in the city during conventions.
“What NASCAR did was a slap in the face to fans who made the sport what it is,” Gramling said. “They don’t know how upset they’ve made people with this decision. I really don’t care what NASCAR thinks about what we did. It’s the least of my concerns.”
The group might fly the banner over more NASCAR venues this season. Gramling said supporters loved the idea and reacted with excitement after watching it on television.
“We’ve had quite a bit of reaction,” Gramling said. “It’s been very well received by everyone except NASCAR. This is the hottest, quickest thing we’ve done to raise awareness of flag issues and to get a strong reaction in quite a while.”
Yep, it's been well received by "everyone" ... except the vast majority of Americans.
This highly intelligent southern gentleman has absolutely no clue what the First Amendment says. He has no more of a "right" to bring confederate flags into a racetrack facility than he does showing up naked.
He does have the right to be a racist, however ... and from the sound of it, he freely exercises that right every day.
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I'm starting to believe this was all planned by Nascar. The flags, the noose, the banners..
I've heard more about Nascar in the last 2 weeks then my previous 25 years.
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I'm starting to believe this was all planned by Nascar. The flags, the noose, the banners..
I've heard more about Nascar in the last 2 weeks then my previous 25 years.
So you think they planned this from last fall by putting a noose rope in a garage then assinging Bubba Wallace to that garage so they would have a reason to get rid of their Confederate flags and highlight their diversity?
I mean...teal???
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I'm starting to believe this was all planned by Nascar. The flags, the noose, the banners..
I've heard more about Nascar in the last 2 weeks then my previous 25 years.
I doubt they planned it, but I'd be on board with them dragging the story out for PR reasons. Never let a crisis go to waste.
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I mean...teal???
I guess I should have realized scoop has a hard time without teal :'(