Pro-Jos V. No-Jos

[Its DJOver]

“  My fear is that he will do it at his next stop and be another Majerus for us.”  But that means if we have enough patience with him and support him, that can still happen here.  It is happening.  He is a better coach today than 5 years ago.   I think in-game adjustments is an area to focus on.  Otherwise, pretty solid. And I’m sure he knows what he has to work on. He’s a smart guy.  He will bring a Marquette higher than anyone else who might come here now.  So go Wojo!  We Are Marquette!

I think this is a very important aspect surrounding optimism regarding Wojo.  Didn't watch him a ton at I4 and haven't seen him at all at UGA, but Crean seems to be at about the same level he was a decade ago.  Buzz was, and still is, better than Wojo, but IMO, his most impressive coaching season was with the midgets.  The rate at which he has improved has frustrated, but Wojo has gotten better as a coach.  If he continues to do so there's no reason he can't achieve the level of success that all want. 

This is not to say that his teams have/will always get better on a year to year basis.  Losing an All-American as part of a 4 man Senior class will almost certainly having us take a step back next year, but if Wojo continues to improve, we should all be satisfied with the results.

[muguru]

Sorta like Wojo did against Maryland?

Did it wayyyyyyy to late after the game had already been decided. Should have done it against Creighton too

[muguru]

Wojo knows basketball. I think he just stubbornly sticks to his plan.

This +1000 I have thought this since he's been here. Even if it's not working early on and it's obvious,  it's like he thinks "okay this possession we'll get a stop etc etc". He's seemingly too stubborn to change things up ever. Or when he does, it's too late to make a difference.

[muguru]

I think this is a very important aspect surrounding optimism regarding Wojo.  Didn't watch him a ton at I4 and haven't seen him at all at UGA, but Crean seems to be at about the same level he was a decade ago.  Buzz was, and still is, better than Wojo, but IMO, his most impressive coaching season was with the midgets.  The rate at which he has improved has frustrated, but Wojo has gotten better as a coach.  If he continues to do so there's no reason he can't achieve the level of success that all want. 

This is not to say that his teams have/will always get better on a year to year basis. Losing an All-American as part of a 4 man Senior class will almost certainly having us take a step back next year, but if Wojo continues to improve, we should all be satisfied with the results.

This is true, but in a lot of ways won't next year REALLY start to tell us what kind of a Coach he really is, losing all that talent that he is?? If he can exceed most expectations for next year, THEN I think we can all be very hopeful that he is/will be the guy.

[Its DJOver]

This is true, but in a lot of ways won't next year REALLY start to tell us what kind of a Coach he really is, losing all that talent that he is?? If he can exceed most expectations for next year, THEN I think we can all be very hopeful that he is/will be the guy.

Well, I don't want to get ahead of myself talking about next year yet, because I'm still excited about this year but...

I think a lot will depend on how "ready" the Freshman are.  Some recruits can come in and adjust very quickly, i.e. Markus.  Some take longer, i.e. Vander. 

What happens with the reamaining open scholarships will also go a fair way in determining what an appropriate level of expectations should be.  All IMO of course.

[WhoaJoe2020]

NM

[JakeBarnes]

I'm going to use a game that was played last night as a perfect example of my biggest frustration with Wojo(in game adjustments)...Oregon St-Colorado. Oregon St was struggling defensively early on. So Wayne Tinkle after a time out switches to a 1-3-1 zone. After that Colorado looked like they had never played basketball before. Completely changed the game and OSU went on to win.

Those are the things I think Wojo lacks that I find most frustrating. The ability to adapt/switch like that in game.

Agreed. It's almost as if Wojo didn't adjust to a 1-3-1 which completely changed how the team played over #1 Villanova.

[Silkk the Shaka]

This sums it up perfectly for me.  Gut feeling he is turning a corner and just when he does he will be gone and hit his stride at another school. 

Let’s just see how this whole season plays out.  A big part of my gut feeling is success this year on the court.  If we fail miserably then I am not immune to the reality that we may have to go in a different direction.

Yeah I have a feeling there is definitely an inflection point here.

If we finish top 3 in conference, win a tourney game, and he lands Mane (or equivalent type grad transfer), then I feel like the administration, the fan base, and Wojo will all be on the same page in terms of comfort level with the program moving forward.

Might get dicey from 1 or more of those three stakeholders if there is a significant shortfall over the next few months (obviously also might not...)

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Did it wayyyyyyy to late after the game had already been decided. Should have done it against Creighton too

Goal post move complete!  First it was that he doesn't make in-game adjustments, then when presented with an instance when he made the exact same adjustment you highlighted you change the complaint to he doesn't make the adjustments when you retroactively wanted them.  What a crank. 

[brewcity77]

My fear is that he will do it at his next stop and be another Majerus for us.   But that is just my gut and I don't know that I can give a substantive reason.

This exactly. Wojo' first 5 years were okay. Rebuilt the program, showed promise on offense & defense, solid recruiting, & ran a clean program. If we were looking for a coach, he's the kind of guy we'd be happy to land. Easier to just consider this his second chance and see how the next few years go.

I can easily see him leaving for a Wake Forest or Maryland type job and turning them into a regular contender. Better to give him the chance to do it here, especially when the Board has so much faith.

[MU82]

This is true, but in a lot of ways won't next year REALLY start to tell us what kind of a Coach he really is, losing all that talent that he is?? If he can exceed most expectations for next year, THEN I think we can all be very hopeful that he is/will be the guy.

I actually agree with this.

Wojo is the GM as well as coach. It is his job to bring in the talent, have balanced rosters, etc.

I am not giving him a "pass" for this season, nor will I give one to him next season.

But as DJO said, I'll judge next season when it comes. So much to look forward to this season still.

[Small Orange Soda]

Wojo in general has come up just short of my expectations every year. I hoped for postseason play with Ellenson, we just missed out. I hoped for a tourney win in 2017, we had that awful second half against SC. I hoped for a bid in 2018, we were one win away. I hoped for a Big East title & tourney run last year, we were one win (and a Markus injury) away from both likely happening. I think Wojo thus far has always done just a bit less than the talent would allow.

So he's underachieved each season.  I agree.  Some people think he's gonna turn that around, others sense a pattern.

[WhoaJoe2020]

This +1000 I have thought this since he's been here. Even if it's not working early on and it's obvious,  it's like he thinks "okay this possession we'll get a stop etc etc". He's seemingly too stubborn to change things up ever. Or when he does, it's too late to make a difference.

Another possibility is that he wants the players to buy into the system he preaches, and he's worried that if he constantly abandons it the players will think he's full of $h!t and lose faith in him and the system.
There's a lot of new guys getting extended minutes this year, so buy in from the players is crucial.

Whatever the case may be, it still falls on Wojo to have the players focused and prepared to execute whatever game plan he draws up.
The VU game they were focused and prepared, the CU game they were not. The next few game will be very telling.

[muguru]

Agreed. It's almost as if Wojo didn't adjust to a 1-3-1 which completely changed how the team played over #1 Villanova.

Obviously...Do you not understand the game of basketball?? Let me clue you in on a basic fundamental.. Usually when something isn't working for a team(and it's obvious when it isn't...see Creighton), then the Coach should be changing something up to see if he can get something else to work. It's game specific most times. But you know that and are just being a tool. Whether that be going to a zone, some back court pressure to slow a team down and keep them from getting into their offense when they want, traps, whatever. All good coaches have something else they can go to when what you normally do isn't working. Pretty basic/logical stuff.

[Cheeks]

This sums it up perfectly for me.  Gut feeling he is turning a corner and just when he does he will be gone and hit his stride at another school. 

Let’s just see how this whole season plays out.  A big part of my gut feeling is success this year on the court.  If we fail miserably then I am not immune to the reality that we may have to go in a different direction.

Part of me says good....I'm so sick how some of our fans act that watching a guy leave and kill it elsewhere and do it the right way....we are wonderful as a fan based of bashing coaches (Majerus, Crean, Buzz, Wojo) and then we have our thumb up our butts when they leave and wonder why.  Yeah, yeah, I know it comes with the territory that coaches take heat, etc....but if MU wants a guy to stick around for a long time we don't follow it up.  And yes, I'll be the first to say I have plenty of concerns with one of those guys, but not for coaching acumen but other reasons.

[Cheeks]

"Long time lurker" WhoaJoe2020 all of a sudden starts posting 30 times a day right out the gate with Cheeks talking points.

Interesting. I don't disagree with much of what is being said. It's just interesting, to me, as an observer!

Look, you have been wrong so many damn times here it is laughable, but notch this one as another. I have no idea who this guy is, where he is, etc.  I don't particularly care. I also don't believe he / her is going with my talking points, but again why not just go to a moderator to ask.  This isn't hard....of course then you would have to admit you are wrong...can you do it?

[muguru]

Goal post move complete!  First it was that he doesn't make in-game adjustments, then when presented with an instance when he made the exact same adjustment you highlighted you change the complaint to he doesn't make the adjustments when you retroactively wanted them.  What a crank.

LOL what good does it do to make a change from what your doing after it's already too late and the game is essentially over?? The whole idea of doing it is to try change the complexion of the game and put your team in a better position to win. Will it always work?? Of course not, but it may sometimes, and that might be all it takes to steal a win or two you may not have gotten otherwise.

Of course, Crean putting Chris Grimm on Alando Tucker(when no one expected that), or buzz switching to a zone in the middle of a game that completely changed it and helped MU come back and win, or Buzz putting Jimmy Butler on Tu Holloway in the NCAA's completely shutting him down. None of those things were strokes of genius were they?? Amazingly(or not so amazingly) they all worked perfectly. Go figure.

[Its DJOver]

Obviously...Do you not understand the game of basketball?? Let me clue you in on a basic fundamental.. Usually when something isn't working for a team(and it's obvious when it isn't...see Creighton), then the Coach should be changing something up to see if he can get something else to work. It's game specific most times.

Serious question.  What do you think wasn't working offensively in the fist 12 minutes of the second half of the Nova game?  It was very obvious that something was wrong, we only scored 5 points in those 12 minutes. 

Follow up question.  What adjustment do you think was made during the under 8 media TO in the second half?  Clearly some change had to be made going from 5 points in 12 minutes to 20 points in the final 8.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Part of me says good....I'm so sick how some of our fans act that watching a guy leave and kill it elsewhere and do it the right way....we are wonderful as a fan based of bashing coaches (Majerus, Crean, Buzz, Wojo) and then we have our thumb up our butts when they leave and wonder why.  Yeah, yeah, I know it comes with the territory that coaches take heat, etc....but if MU wants a guy to stick around for a long time we don't follow it up.  And yes, I'll be the first to say I have plenty of concerns with one of those guys, but not for coaching acumen but other reasons.

Dude you bashed Buzz mercilessly for 6 years, get over yourself

[Silkk the Shaka]

Look, you have been wrong so many damn times here it is laughable, but notch this one as another. I have no idea who this guy is, where he is, etc.  I don't particularly care. I also don't believe he / her is going with my talking points, but again why not just go to a moderator to ask.  This isn't hard....of course then you would have to admit you are wrong...can you do it?

It's just interesting that's all!

[Cheeks]

He has exactly met my expectations from a wins perspective every year, based on the roster make up of each team.   Actually exceeded it in year 1.   Postseason results are of course disappointing
   I have yet to see enough that indicates he will separate himself and become a Donovan, Beard, Buzz.   Right now, he seems like a Crean, Weber, Cooley, Willard, Archie Miller.   Good, but not a program changer.
    But I still feel like he has the potential to get there.  I feel like something will click, all the tumblers will align and he will figure out the secret sauce.   My fear is that he will do it at his next stop and be another Majerus for us.   But that is just my gut and I don't know that I can give a substantive reason.

Pretty close to where I am....he has 100% met my expectations considering where we were, who we hired, etc.  Where I disagree is on the program changer part....programs are more than just wins and losses, and in other ways he has changed the program. 

He has a fan for life in me unless he does something really stupid (i.e. cheating, covering up, etc).  I just hope it's at MU.  I want to see him with more elite talent, which is starting to come in next year.  A lot of what we have been doing is with 3 star guys or 3.5 star (guys rated 3 or 4).  Ellenson was a marriage of convenience for us and him.  It sucks about the Hausers, but the team hasn't sulked about it like so many of our fans here have. 

I was all in on Shaka when it surfaced he was a done deal....I was wrong it appears.  I feel differently about Wojo, still think he is getting better each year.

[brewcity77]

So he's underachieved each season.  I agree.  Some people think he's gonna turn that around, others sense a pattern.

If he can continue to reel in recruits like Ellenson, Howard, Hauser, Torrence, & Garcia, he may not have to. If you can develop a roster that is among the most talented in the country, underachieving can still mean good results, and even only occasionally meeting expectations can be a season for the ages.

[Cheeks]

Dude you bashed Buzz mercilessly for 6 years, get over yourself

False.  I even said he should be coach of the year endlessly.  I can provide you with 100's of examples, but of course you would ignore them as usual.  Six years...totally false.  Did I bash him a lot...yup.  For some things that were not basketball related....absolutely.

Guess what I NEVER did.  Search it until your hearts content.  NOT ONE TIME did I say he should be fired. NOT ONE DAMN TIME.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

LOL what good does it do to make a change from what your doing after it's already too late and the game is essentially over??

And when given two examples, you change the complaint and/or ignore he evidence.  You seem to live for being miserable.

[skianth16]

Part of me says good....I'm so sick how some of our fans act that watching a guy leave and kill it elsewhere and do it the right way....we are wonderful as a fan based of bashing coaches (Majerus, Crean, Buzz, Wojo) and then we have our thumb up our butts when they leave and wonder why.  Yeah, yeah, I know it comes with the territory that coaches take heat, etc....but if MU wants a guy to stick around for a long time we don't follow it up.  And yes, I'll be the first to say I have plenty of concerns with one of those guys, but not for coaching acumen but other reasons.

Do you really think MU fans are harder on coaches than most fans are on their team's coach?

To me, MU fans seem to be pretty forgiving to coaches while they're here. I think college fans in general tend to be pretty forgiving when compared to pro sports. And basketball fans tend to be more forgiving than football fans. And MU basketball doesn't seem to be an exception to that in my experience.