WBBY Shootout

[wadesworld]

I am not sure what you were watching. Heldt is a short 6'10" and not as near as strong as Ellenson, who is a tall 6'10". Ellenson played the whole game fighting double teams, while Heldt left the game several times. One time to have his foot re bandaged. Maybe Heldt had a virus or something, but he definitely got winded. I also thought Heldt was quicker than Ellenson and had better hands. Heldt was also more likely to get a rebound out of his area. Heldt's team fell behind each time he went to the bench. Basically Heldt's team lost, because Heldt tip in a rebound for the other team in the third or fourth quarter. Oddly, Ellenson's team seemed to tip in the winning shot for the other team. I was sitting at the far end of the court, when two Rice Lake players were battling for the rebound on the last shot and the ball flew up into the basket. I could not tell, if it just bounced off their hands or if the opponent's player actually got a hand on it. Then I get home and see that Florida St. beat Florida, when a Florida player tip in FL St's last shot. It look exactly like the Held'st tip in. It was impressive how Ellenson could handle the ball, but I kept thinking about how Gardner could handle the ball in the pro am, but he could not do it in a college game. Generally, bigmen should not be bringing the ball up court. This was the first time I saw Ellenson play. It will be interesting to see how well he does in college. I do not see him as a one and done, but I have only seen him one time and his shot was not falling. This is the second time I have seen Heldt. I came away with the conclusion both times that he is not big enough to be a college center. Needs to work on being a power forward. Heldt's team often threw inbounds passes to him and lobs to get him the ball inside. He was always able to handle the passes, which led me to the conclusion he had great hands. Ellenson also has very good hands, but I felt Heldt's were better. Heldt made all of his free throws. Ellenson shot more free throws, but missed 4 or 5 of them.  I could see Ellenson (SF), Fischer(C) and Heldt(PF) on the floor at the same time in the right situations.

You really thought Heldt was quicker than Ellenson?  I could not disagree more.  Ellenson was shifty and changed directions quickly.  He isn't necessarily fast, but with his length every step covers a ton of ground.  Heldt showed very little lateral quickness at all.  And he may have looked shorter due to the fact that Tosa West's tallest player was 6'3" while Germantown's was 6'7", so the players on the court were taller against Heldt than they were against Henry.  Heldt definitely is wider than Henry but Henry was stronger.  When Heldt gets on a college strength and conditioning program I don't see him having any problem playing the 5.  He has the frame, just has to convert it into strength.

When teams can't throw 3 defenders at Henry every time he touches the ball I think we'll see that he's a 1 and done type talent (I expect him around for his brother's last 2 years).  Regardless of the height advantage, when you have 6 arms being thrown around you every time you touch the ball it's hard to get a clear look at the hoop.  He handled the ball with multiple defenders on him with his left hand while shielding them off with his body better than most college point guards handle the ball at all.  He's going to be fun to watch for however long he's at Marquette.

[warriorstrack]

Grew up in Oregon, they have different sites for each of the tournaments, 6A goes to U of Portland, 5A to OSU, 4A and lower at high school sites, 4 teams from each division go to state.  So being able to play at college site obviously allowed, in a way I like how they (Oregon) spread the state tournament around and let in more teams.  But having WIAA state tournament at UW definitely is an advantage and everyone at one site must be easier from a management standpoint.

[BCHoopster]

The best part of Heldts game is that he does not put the ball on the ground in the low post, keeps his hands high and scores that way.  You can not teach height, he has it.  He will only
get better, but his fundamentals are good.  Needs to add weight and get stronger but that is what happens once they get into a college program and has strength and conditioning coach
like Todd Smiith.  He will be a great back-up for Luke, plays 10-12 minutes a game as a freshman and sophomore and with the potential to start in 3 years.  So looking 3 years down the
road, he has a chance to get a good college player.

Ellenson will step in and start right away next year or first off the bench.  He and Luke will be a nice tandem on the floor as Ellenson can go outside.  It is hard for Ellenson this year as he
has 3 guys surrounding him at all times.  Next year that will not be the case.  It will be interesting to see how Wojo uses him next year and how the other older players respond to him.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

There was a good Sophomore from Tosa. About 6'6" or 6'7" had length and could shoot. Can't remember his name but he may be someone to keep an eye on.

[VegasWarrior77]

There was a good Sophomore from Tosa. About 6'6" or 6'7" had length and could shoot. Can't remember his name but he may be someone to keep an eye on.

Mark Miller
‏@WisBBYearbook
Tosa West Alou Dillon (6-7) beginning to make a name for himself. Talented sophomore with good upside.

[Blackhat]

I am not sure what you were watching. Heldt is a short 6'10" and not as near as strong as Ellenson, who is a tall 6'10". Ellenson played the whole game fighting double teams, while Heldt left the game several times. One time to have his foot re bandaged. Maybe Heldt had a virus or something, but he definitely got winded. I also thought Heldt was quicker than Ellenson and had better hands. Heldt was also more likely to get a rebound out of his area. Heldt's team fell behind each time he went to the bench. Basically Heldt's team lost, because Heldt tip in a rebound for the other team in the third or fourth quarter. Oddly, Ellenson's team seemed to tip in the winning shot for the other team. I was sitting at the far end of the court, when two Rice Lake players were battling for the rebound on the last shot and the ball flew up into the basket. I could not tell, if it just bounced off their hands or if the opponent's player actually got a hand on it. Then I get home and see that Florida St. beat Florida, when a Florida player tip in FL St's last shot. It look exactly like the Held'st tip in. It was impressive how Ellenson could handle the ball, but I kept thinking about how Gardner could handle the ball in the pro am, but he could not do it in a college game. Generally, bigmen should not be bringing the ball up court. This was the first time I saw Ellenson play. It will be interesting to see how well he does in college. I do not see him as a one and done, but I have only seen him one time and his shot was not falling. This is the second time I have seen Heldt. I came away with the conclusion both times that he is not big enough to be a college center. Needs to work on being a power forward. Heldt's team often threw inbounds passes to him and lobs to get him the ball inside. He was always able to handle the passes, which led me to the conclusion he had great hands. Ellenson also has very good hands, but I felt Heldt's were better. Heldt made all of his free throws. Ellenson shot more free throws, but missed 4 or 5 of them.  I could see Ellenson (SF), Fischer(C) and Heldt(PF) on the floor at the same time in the right situations.

I'm not going to argue "short 6'10 vs tall 6'10".  Pretty silly, let's just say they are both plenty tall enough.  Heldt more heavy footed and wider of the two.  My assessment aligns more with Wadesworld and he covered most pertinent points regarding the two.

[bilsu]

Germantown's center was announced at 6'7" and he looked like he was anorexic. That made Heldt appear wider than he is. Assuming Germantown's center was actually 6'7" than Heldt is not 6'10", because he was at best 2 inches taller. Ellenson is very good at moving with the ball due to his ball handling abilities. Heldt does not bring the ball up court, so you cannot compare quickness there. However, I felt around the basket that Heldt was quicker. It may simply be the fact that Ellesnson was doubled team and therefore boxed in and Heldt was not. As far as defensively opposing players more than once drove the ball and scored over both of them. They blocked some shots, because of their size, but neither are shot blockers.

[Blackhat]

There was a good Sophomore from Tosa. About 6'6" or 6'7" had length and could shoot. Can't remember his name but he may be someone to keep an eye on.

#23 I believe.  He caught my eye too.  Seemed in the 6'5" range according to my non-scientific analysis.  Thought if he grew a couple more inches he could be something.  Smooth athlete.

[jsheim]

Perhaps this has been covered already in the Al....but heard McGivern on the radio mention he watched online Ellenson and Stone play the U17 worlds in Dubai this summer.

If anyone is interested in the stat lines:

http://www.fiba.com/world/u17/2014/Henry-John-ELLENSON
http://www.fiba.com/world/u17/2014/Diamond-Louis-STONE

Ellenson only got half the minutes of Stone but was effective in most games. High scorer vs China.

Again, forgive me if this is old news on the forum.

[We R Final Four]

Philip Flory was the most pedestrian playeron the court today. Very mediocre. Not a D1 talent-----at least today.
Sam Hauser (Frosh) was very impressive.

[cheebs09]

Philip Flory was the most pedestrian playeron the court today. Very mediocre. Not a D1 talent-----at least today.
Sam Hauser (Frosh) was very impressive.

I believe Sam is a junior. His brother Joey is a Freshman. I know Wojo has been mentioned a lot with Sam. Both sound like very high level players.

[We R Final Four]

Yes--you are correct. Joey is a stud.
Sam was in foul trouble in the first half and wasnt a factor.
Joey can shoot and jump and is built like a senior.

[wadesworld]

How did Hank look today?

[We R Final Four]

He was double and triple teamed
Most of the game. His teammates air balled at least 5 three pointers. If his team could shoot at all teams would have to be more honest.
I did mention to my buddy that I have seen Henry play 3 times and I have never seen him box out---never put a body on someone. Since he has the height, he waits for the ball and goes and gets it.
Btw, freshmen from Kaukauna #5 stole the game. Great ball handler, nice shooter. Jordan McCabe.

[Marquette Fan in WI]

#23 I believe.  He caught my eye too.  Seemed in the 6'5" range according to my non-scientific analysis.  Thought if he grew a couple more inches he could be something.  Smooth athlete.

I think this was the guy who single handedly kept them in the game against Dominican in the first half.