Gonzaga virtual No. 1

[Tugg Speedman]

Gonzaga is at BYU Thursday and home against Portland Saturday.  Win both and no. 1 next week.

Get them in the C7!  But them a plane.

[tower912]

I don't think this loss drops IU from #1.   Conference road loss to a high RPI team desperate for a win to cement their tourney bid.   No shame in that. 

[keefe]

Gonzaga is at BYU Thursday and home against Portland Saturday.  Win both and no. 1 next week.

Get them in the C7!  But them a plane.

Gonzaga...Ranked #1...

Chicos is mortified...

the horror...the horror...

[Tugg Speedman]

I don't think this loss drops IU from #1.   Conference road loss to a high RPI team desperate for a win to cement their tourney bid.   No shame in that. 

It's writers that vote and they would love for a non power conference team to be no. 1.  So they will make it happen.

[GoldenZebra]

Its sad, the Zags really dont have a schedule and resume of a #1 team. They got their because of their weak competition and everyone ahead of them losing, to much much better competition. Their best wins are @OKST and vs KSU (neutral). I mean, really???

[warriorchick]

Its sad, the Zags really dont have a schedule and resume of a #1 team. They got their because of their weak competition and everyone ahead of them losing, to much much better competition. Their best wins are @OKST and vs KSU (neutral). I mean, really???

Are you saying that Gonzaga is the Notre Dame of basketball?

[Norm]

Zags played three ranked teams and lost to two of them.

[chapman]

Can we be a #4 seed in their bracket?

[DCWarriors04]

Who cares who the #1 ranked team is before the tourney...doesn't mean they'll win it.

[Tugg Speedman]

Who cares who the #1 ranked team is before the tourney...doesn't mean they'll win it.

When we are ranked #1 next year I'll remind you that you do not care.

[DCWarriors04]

Don't get me wrong, having #1 next to your name is big, but the only time it matters to me is when it's the last poll of the season after the tourney.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Watched them play at San Diego and was not impressed. Two 7 footers that nobody in their league can match and they barely won. The wouldn't fare well in the BEAST

[Stronghold]

Watched them play at San Diego and was not impressed. Two 7 footers that nobody in their league can match and they barely won. The wouldn't fare well in the BEAST

Yeah I'd like to see those guys do to Syracuse what Gardner and Otule did.

[Hards Alumni]

I don't think this loss drops IU from #1.   Conference road loss to a high RPI team desperate for a win to cement their tourney bid.   No shame in that. 

Disagree.  IU has lost twice in the last 3 weeks... to unranked teams.  They just don't deserve it.  It will be either Gonzaga or Duke.

[Windyplayer]

I don't think this loss drops IU from #1.   Conference road loss to a high RPI team desperate for a win to cement their tourney bid.   No shame in that. 

But, but, but great teams win road games.

[Golden Avalanche]

But, but, but great teams win road games.

And Indiana has made a habit of beating elite level teams away from home (Hoyas, Buckeyes, Sparty). They have a great record outside Bloomington which makes them a great team.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think this loss drops IU from #1.   Conference road loss to a high RPI team desperate for a win to cement their tourney bid.   No shame in that. 

Agree. IU is still the best team I have seen this year. Two lottery picks with more than 150 games total under their belt, a bunch of shooters with tons of experience and a MCD AA point guard. Still get a little confused late if you can keep it close though.

[Golden Avalanche]

Watched them play at San Diego and was not impressed. Two 7 footers that nobody in their league can match and they barely won. The wouldn't fare well in the BEAST

You've only watched them once?

I think Indiana and Gonzaga are the only teams in the country this season that have all the tools to be a complete team. Whether they can put it together six times next month is unknown given the way this season has played out.

[TJ]

I don't think this loss drops IU from #1.   Conference road loss to a high RPI team desperate for a win to cement their tourney bid.   No shame in that. 

How many times does IU get that benefit of the doubt that I really can't remember any #1 team getting ever before.  No same in being #3 either, but when #1 loses they drop.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I have watched them on TV but was in person for SD game. Who have they beaten that they should be No.1?   Way over rated  and more athletic teams will have their way with them.

[brewcity77]

Can we be a #4 seed in their bracket?

I'd also want to know who the 8/9 are...I have very little faith in teams that haven't been challenged in months suddenly being in tournament form as a top seed.

[nathanziarek]

I have watched them on TV but was in person for SD game. Who have they beaten that they should be No.1?   Way over rated  and more athletic teams will have their way with them.

Maybe, but the rankings aren't "fair" -- they are a measure of week-to-week movement.

Gonzaga has done exactly what they are supposed to do. If IU beats up on a few schools next week, they'll reclaim the top spot. But, they lost. That should come with a commensurate drop in ranking.

That said, I had this argument somewhere else: If IU wasn't the preseason #1, do you think they'd have worked their way there anyway? It seems to me that it's pretty hard to break into the top 25, and once you're past the 20-25 bubble, pretty hard to get kicked out. Starting at #1 would give a lot of latitude to screw up

[ChicosBailBonds]

Zags played three ranked teams and lost to two of them.

Ding ding ding....of course you state the obvious like that and you're a hater, go figure.

[real chili 83]

This might be a bit of a stretch but.....

Aren't the zags this year's version of Murray State?

Our pot smokin' Jesuit cousins.

[keefe]

Ding ding ding....of course you state the obvious like that and you're a hater, go figure.

HEY GONZAGA...

[ChicosBailBonds]

HEY GONZAGA...

Yes or no, Gonzaga has played 3 ranked teams and lost to 2 of them?  They did beat #22 by 1 point. 

RIP Johnny Cash...his birthday was yesterday I believe.

[Montana Warrior]

This might be a bit of a stretch but.....

Aren't the zags this year's version of Murray State?

Our pot smokin' Jesuit cousins.

I think you mean "Our exotic mushroomin' Jesuit cousins".

[keefe]

Yes or no, Gonzaga has played 3 ranked teams and lost to 2 of them?  They did beat #22 by 1 point. 

RIP Johnny Cash...his birthday was yesterday I believe.

That is correct. And, yes or no, they are ranked as the #2 program in the country?

Tomorrow is the Man in Black's birthday, I believe. One of the greats. I walk the Line and Folsom Prison stand as two of the grittiest albums ever published.

HEY GONZAGA! CHICOS HAS A MESSAGE FOR YOU!

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

That is correct. And, yes or no, they are ranked as the #2 program in the country?

Tomorrow is the Man in Black's birthday, I believe. One of the greats. I walk the Line and Folsom Prison stand as two of the grittiest albums ever published.

HEY GONZAGA! CHICOS HAS A MESSAGE FOR YOU!

Yes, they are ranked #2 in the country in a system that rewards you for not losing and doesn't factor in who you play...aka, the writers and coaches poll.  There's a reason the RPI has them at #9, because it actually factors in who you play (76th toughest schedule), where you play and how you did the whole season.

Still cranky about Penn State whipping the Wolverines?

[keefe]

Still cranky about Penn State whipping the Wolverines?

Naw. Now if it were football then it would be different. For hoops I am monogamous.

I like to see Blue win at all sports and I root hard for Michigan athletes in the Olympics, even if they are playing for another flag.

[brewcity77]

The idea that a team with a sub-25 SOS that isn't undefeated getting a 1-seed is laughable. The rest of the country may be bad, but they certainly aren't that bad.

[Tugg Speedman]

Duke lost tonight to UVA.  This solidifies the Zags hold on the 1spot ... Unless they lose this week.

[tower912]

Duke lost and Gonzaga won.   Heck, if Miami beats Duke on Saturday, Duke will be approaching 4th place in the ACC.    Gonzaga wins out and they get a #1 seed. 

[jmayer1]

Yes, they are ranked #2 in the country in a system that rewards you for not losing and doesn't factor in who you play...aka, the writers and coaches poll.  There's a reason the RPI has them at #9, because it actually factors in who you play (76th toughest schedule), where you play and how you did the whole season.

Still cranky about Penn State whipping the Wolverines?

So you think IU certainly shouldn't be #1 either then, since the Zags are now ahead of IU in RPI in most of the systems (Rivals, CBS, realtime, teamrankings)?

[NavinRJohnson]

Perfect example of why rankings are so stupid. Based way too much on who has lost most recently, not to whom, or who they have beaten all year long. Ask me who the best teams in the country are right now, and i can pretty easily say Louisville, Duke, Indiana, and Florida, though not necessarily in that order. Those are the best teams, they would be my number 1 seeds and are the teams most likely to win the tournament.

[Coleman]

Perfect example of why rankings are so stupid. Based way too much on who has lost most recently, not to whom, or who they have beaten all year long. Ask me who the best teams in the country are right now, and i can pretty easily say Louisville, Duke, Indiana, and Florida, though not necessarily in that order. Those are the best teams, they would be my number 1 seeds and are the teams most likely to win the tournament.

Fortunately for the rest of us, rankings factor in wins and losses and not opinions on message boards.

[NavinRJohnson]

Fortunately for the rest of us, rankings factor in wins and losses and not opinions on message boards.

Really? So you think Gonzaga is the best team in the country, and likely to win the National Championship?

[Coleman]

Really? So you think Gonzaga is the best team in the country, and likely to win the National Championship?

I think they are deserving of the #1 ranking.

[NavinRJohnson]

I think they are deserving of the #1 ranking.

So then you believe they are the best team in the country?

[🏀]

So then you believe they are the best team in the country?

Rankings aren't for the 'best' team, nor the team that will win the national championship.

Gonzaga is the best accomplished team considering this week's snapshot in the season.

[Coleman]

So then you believe they are the best team in the country?

That's probably fair to say.

Its a completely different question to ask if I think they will win the National Championship. That takes a different kind of team. Lots of teams hit #1 and don't go all the way. Bubble teams can win it (see UCONN recently) You have to put together a great run and have a team that is built for the tourney. Not sure if Gonzaga is that team or not.

All I know is that right now, they deserve to be #1. They are the only team that keeps winning.

[NavinRJohnson]

Rankings aren't for the 'best' team, nor the team that will win the national championship.

Gonzaga is the best accomplished team considering this week's snapshot in the season.

Then what are they for? How exactly are they better accomplished than the teams I mentioned, because theyve played an appreciably easier schedule? You guys are making my point, that polls are stupid and completely meaningless. If they aren't the best team, why on earth would you vote them number 1? What is it exactly are these polls supposedly ranking?

[keefe]

Then what are they for? How exactly are they better accomplished than the teams I mentioned, because theyve played an appreciably easier schedule? You guys are making my point, that polls are stupid and completely meaningless. If they aren't the best team, why on earth would you vote them number 1? What is it exactly are these polls supposedly ranking?

Navin, they're beauty contests, man. The only thing that matters is the rack and stack in early April.

[tower912]

Indiana State was unbeated and ranked #1 in the country when MSU beat them.    Clearly, the Sycamores were not the best team in the country.   However, going into the tournament, they were the only undefeated team.  Ergo.....

I do not think Gonzaga will win the national championship.   However, based on their current record and losses by teams in front of them, I have no problem with them being ranked #1 or having a 1 seed. 

[NavinRJohnson]

I do not think Gonzaga will win the national championship.   However, based on their current record and losses by teams in front of them, I have no problem with them being ranked #1 or having a 1 seed.  

LA Tech is 25-3. Should they be ranked in the top 5? Should they get a get a number 1 seed? Obviously an extreme example, but used to make a point. Schedule matters, and there is simply no comparing the schedule played by Gonzaga to those of the other teams I mentioned. Not suggesting they are not a good team, but simply that they are not the best team in the country right now. If you say the polls are not to rank who the best team is, then I can only assume you agree that they are stupid and meaningless.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you think IU certainly shouldn't be #1 either then, since the Zags are now ahead of IU in RPI in most of the systems (Rivals, CBS, realtime, teamrankings)?

That is correct.

[keefe]

That is correct.

Wow. A tear was shed tonight in Bloomington. Et tu, Chicote?

[keefe]

Rankings aren't for the 'best' team, nor the team that will win the national championship.

Gonzaga is the best accomplished team considering this week's snapshot in the season.

PTM is correct. It is a beauty contest by a bunch of guys who give all of 5 minutes to complete their ballots. Given the dearth of analytical reflection or consideration in a season like this it is to demote the losers and leap frog others above them.

Having said this, this form of conventional wisdom polling is indicative of general perceptions which underscores the critical importance of media exposure. It's been said the only bad exposure is no exposure.

[tower912]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21805936/heres-why-we-ranked-gonzaga-no-1

Parish makes a strong case.     Only two losses are to Butler on a buzzer-beater (where have we heard that before?) and to Illinois.  5-0 against the Big 12.    I have no problem with them being #1.    Until they lose.       Then Few should be fired, the team should be disbanded and the entire fanbase should hide their heads in shame.   

[keefe]

To those who suggest the Zags have played an undeserving schedule,  Parrish writes:


Gonzaga played non-league games with Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Butler, Illinois, Baylor, West Virginia and Davidson, and the Zags finished the non-league portion of their schedule with a 13-2 record. They went 5-0 against the Big 12 -- and not just the bottom of the Big 12. That 5-0 mark came against the schools currently first (Kansas State), third (Oklahoma State), fourth (Oklahoma), sixth (Baylor) and seventh (West Virginia) in the Big 12 standings, and four of the wins were by at least 15 points. Also worth noting: Gonzaga is 3-0 against top-25 RPI schools, 5-2 against top-50 RPI schools and 11-2 against top-100 RPI schools with zero losses outside of the top 50.

The worst loss? That was a loss to an Illinois team that made 11 3-pointers and got 35 points from Brandon Paul, and it's not like Illinois stinks. The Illini have also beaten Indiana, Ohio State, Butler and Minnesota. The other loss? That was a loss to Butler at Hinkle on a fluky steal and runner at the buzzer. That was just ... unfortunate.

Beyond that, the Zags are perfect.

[real chili 83]

To those who suggest the Zags have played an undeserving schedule,  Parrish writes:


Gonzaga played non-league games with Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Butler, Illinois, Baylor, West Virginia and Davidson, and the Zags finished the non-league portion of their schedule with a 13-2 record. They went 5-0 against the Big 12 -- and not just the bottom of the Big 12. That 5-0 mark came against the schools currently first (Kansas State), third (Oklahoma State), fourth (Oklahoma), sixth (Baylor) and seventh (West Virginia) in the Big 12 standings, and four of the wins were by at least 15 points. Also worth noting: Gonzaga is 3-0 against top-25 RPI schools, 5-2 against top-50 RPI schools and 11-2 against top-100 RPI schools with zero losses outside of the top 50.

The worst loss? That was a loss to an Illinois team that made 11 3-pointers and got 35 points from Brandon Paul, and it's not like Illinois stinks. The Illini have also beaten Indiana, Ohio State, Butler and Minnesota. The other loss? That was a loss to Butler at Hinkle on a fluky steal and runner at the buzzer. That was just ... unfortunate.

Beyond that, the Zags are perfect.

That was helpful.

Also, by your logic, if it were not for UWGB, Gtown, and Nova, we would be vying for 1st or 2nd too? 

[keefe]

That was helpful.

Also, by your logic, if it were not for UWGB, Gtown, and Nova, we would be vying for 1st or 2nd too? 

Parrish is referring to degrees from perfection so in MU's case one would have to add to your list Florida, Louisville, Cincy, and Butler.

[Lennys Tap]

That is correct.

Since Indiana and Gonzaga aren't #1 on your ballot (they're 1 and 2 on mine) what is your top 5?

[NavinRJohnson]

Not that you asked, but here's mine:

1) Duke
2) Indiana
3) Louisville
4) Florida
5) Kansas

6) Gonzaga
7) Georgetown
8) Michigan
9) Miami
10) Michigan State

Honestly, I would say the blob starts after the top 5. I have a difficult time saying that 6-10 above are appreciably better than the likes of Marquette, Ohio State, Arizona, Syracuse, etc.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Since Indiana and Gonzaga aren't #1 on your ballot (they're 1 and 2 on mine) what is your top 5?

Here are what I consider to be the 5 best teams, forget recent play, I'm talking overall best teams.

Duke (especially with Kelly back)
Miami
Indiana
Louisville
Florida

Next tier
Gonzaga
Michigan State
Georgetown
Kansas

Next tier
Marquette (brilliant coaching job by Buzz)
New Mexico
Michigan
Arizona
Saint Louis
Wisconsin

[ChicosBailBonds]

To those who suggest the Zags have played an undeserving schedule,  Parrish writes:


Gonzaga played non-league games with Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Butler, Illinois, Baylor, West Virginia and Davidson, and the Zags finished the non-league portion of their schedule with a 13-2 record. They went 5-0 against the Big 12 -- and not just the bottom of the Big 12. That 5-0 mark came against the schools currently first (Kansas State), third (Oklahoma State), fourth (Oklahoma), sixth (Baylor) and seventh (West Virginia) in the Big 12 standings, and four of the wins were by at least 15 points. Also worth noting: Gonzaga is 3-0 against top-25 RPI schools, 5-2 against top-50 RPI schools and 11-2 against top-100 RPI schools with zero losses outside of the top 50.

The worst loss? That was a loss to an Illinois team that made 11 3-pointers and got 35 points from Brandon Paul, and it's not like Illinois stinks. The Illini have also beaten Indiana, Ohio State, Butler and Minnesota. The other loss? That was a loss to Butler at Hinkle on a fluky steal and runner at the buzzer. That was just ... unfortunate.

Beyond that, the Zags are perfect.

As Jay Bilas points out today....

"Losses last week by Indiana and Duke have cleared the path for Gonzaga to take over the top spot in the AP poll, which is a sorry excuse for a method of rating teams."

[keefe]

As Jay Bilas points out today....

"Losses last week by Indiana and Duke have cleared the path for Gonzaga to take over the top spot in the AP poll, which is a sorry excuse for a method of rating teams."

That's the way it's been since reporters pounded out stories on battered Royals.

[NavinRJohnson]

That's the way it's been since reporters pounded out stories on battered Royals.

Doesn't mean it isn't stupid.

[Lennys Tap]

Here are what I consider to be the 5 best teams, forget recent play, I'm talking overall best teams.

Duke (especially with Kelly back)
Miami
Indiana
Louisville
Florida

Next tier
Gonzaga
Michigan State
Georgetown
Kansas

Next tier
Marquette (brilliant coaching job by Buzz)
New Mexico
Michigan
Arizona
Saint Louis
Wisconsin

While I'll agree with you that Louisville and Florida (if healthy) have more talent than Gonzaga, I don't think they deserve to be ranked higher today.