Kolek planning to go pro
I'd be curious to know what percentage of those 2-in-3 Catholics attend mass on a weekly basis as opposed to twice a year.
Ha. That’s definitely not why admissions are down. For what it’s worth, me and several friends from the East Coast chose Marquette over other schools precisely because it had an open and non-conservative bent - typical of the Jesuits, who educated us out east. I got the sense that choice was similar to many classmates.
Which would prove what exactly? That the church — through action or inaction entirely of its own making — has driven away many, many Catholics who might otherwise attend?
This has been discussed at length in other threads. Do note that the carefully evaluated new strategy has resulted in two of the largest classes in MU history, both of which reflect a stronger incoming academic profile, all during a time when Marquette's traditional recruiting territory is producing an ever diminishing pool. So they got that going for 'em, which is nice.
True, Vatican II did drive many Catholics away.
If only that were true. The church would be in a much better place.
I have no problems with the current strategy, but I am pointing out to those that pretend acceptance rates don't mean anything to some people that they are wrong. They mean quite a bit to some people, and less to others. We cannot blindly pretend acceptance rates are just another metric when there are people in power of hiring positions that it matters. That doesn't mean I don't support MU's policy or I would have pushed her not to apply if I thought it would hurt her. Ultimately she will receive a quality education, and that is what I care about most.
It was true for a segment of Catholics. The older folks like me, and especially my parents and grandparents, it was a cultural shock to the system.A tug of war ensued. Change is hard for human beings. I still remember all the nuns in their habits, they were instantly recognizable and demanded respect. We would get smacked on the knuckles with a ruler. He he. Hurt like the dickens, but you only had to learn that lesson once. When I see nuns today, it still sometimes throws me for a loop because habit is gone. Doesn't change who they are, but I liked the uniform and the respect that came with it. Minor stuff, I know.The Vatican II tug of war:https://www.npr.org/2012/10/10/162650803/sisters-and-vatican-ii-a-generational-tug-of-warVatican II, 50 years later still deeply dividedhttps://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2012/10/06/vatican_ii_roman_catholic_church_still_deeply_divided_50_years_after_historic_reforms.html
But did older generations of Catholics actually stop going to church because of the Vatican II changes? There's a significant distinction between the churchgoing impact of Vatican II and, say, the rampant abuse cover-ups. A distinction obvious to most of us except, perhaps, this jutaw person, who chose to trot out the well-worn "good Catholics versus bad Catholics" line of illogic, which is as hypocritical as it is hollowly self-righteous.
I'd be curious how many of those Catholics that go every week actually live their day to day lives in Jesus' footsteps vs the ones that don't place as much emphasis on mass.
excellent point bags-blaming NOT going to church or leaving the church on people, who are merely the vehicle of Christ's word and a way of living, is weak. i like to believe in what is right first, second and third... for those who use the priest scandal, celibacy, women priests, gay marriage, etc as an excuse to "leave the church", they are in the wrong pew to begin with.
TAMUI do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.
I still remember all the nuns in their habits, they were instantly recognizable and demanded respect. We would get smacked on the knuckles with a ruler. He he. Hurt like the dickens, but you only had to learn that lesson once. When I see nuns today, it still sometimes throws me for a loop because habit is gone. Doesn't change who they are, but I liked the uniform and the respect that came with it. Minor stuff, I
My wife and I have started going to a Congregationalist church after both being raised Catholic. I was back home for Palm Sunday and went to a Catholic mass with my parents. I looked around and there was literally one couple that appeared to be under the age of 40. There was a lot of small children with their parents but as far as I could tell only two people from my generation had come there by choice (and that's assuming that one wasn't going to appease the other).While different, religion at its core is a form of education. Religion exists to teach people about God's love and plan for us. A key tenant of education is meeting the students where they are at. And right now, the Catholic Church is failing tremendously at that.To be clear, I don't think the church needs to abandon its teachings or rituals in order to cater to a younger generation. But I do think they need to reexamine them and determine what teachings/rituals come from God's Catholic Church and what teachings/rituals come from man's catholic church. I still consider myself a Catholic because I believe in God's Catholic Church but in my opinion man's catholic church has strayed so far from it that it no longer is a place where I can worship and feel sustained or even good.Things like married priests, female priests, gay marriage, recognizing interfaith marriages, reexamining the role of divorce (in situations where abuse is present), birth control. These are all questions that I think come from man's church that the Catholic Church should consider reexamining IMHO.
The priest scandal, a systematic cover-up of illegal activities, is a lot different than the other three you mention, which are matters of belief.
yes, but i wasn't referring to the priest scandal as a belief. i was lumping it in with the others("matters of belief") as one of the many "excuses" for some to leave the church.
But you said they were in the "wrong pew to begin with." Now I agree with you on items like female priests. If you want to see females capably lead a church service, there are plenty of denominations where that happens. (And as a non-Catholic, I generally *prefer* most female pastors to male ones.)But the priest cover up isn't a belief matter. If you are a believing Catholic, being disgusted at the priest scandal isn't about being in the "wrong pew," it's being disgusted at how the Church leadership dealt with a matter of law.
Why stop there with making the Catholic Church a bastion of liberalism? Why not "re-examine" it's stance on abortion? Or celebrating men becoming women, or vice versa? In one breath you talk about the church not needing to abandon its teaching or rituals. In the next breath, they need to "re-examine" what comes from God's Church vs man's. Re-examine being a euphemism for abandoning beliefs and values of Catholic teaching. So why not just cut through your crap that spew out and say Catholicism isn't nearly socially liberal enough to YOUR liking?And visit Catholic churches more often before you broadly generalize the make-up of congregations.
i don't know why i am wasting my time arguing with you on this, but i think you are splitting hairs with me on this. one more time-yes i know and agree with you that the priest cover-up is/was not a "belief" thingy. i was merely lumping that in...ok, the "pew" thing threw ya off...ok, i get rid of it, fine. i guess i had a pretty good point until i added the "pew" thing... now i know how chicos felt