Top 5 MU Players of All Time

[seakm4]

Strictly on how fun they were to watch

1 Cordell Henry
-loved how competitive he was.  Inch for inch the toughest guy.  And that freethrow line floater was a thing of beauty.  I still hate Cincinnati for that cheap low blow in the CUSA tourney.

2 Jerel Mcneal
-Loved his game before he could shoot it from deep.  Always left it all on the court.  I remember going to games and tracking him on defense and watching him read a passing lane like a safety.  I'll never forget the way he took over the madison game down the stretch his senior year.  The joy of seeing my buddy, a becky grad, just throw his hands up in a what can you do fashion after he hit a deep contested 3 late.  It was beautiful

3- Travis Diener
-Again, an a guy with the drive.  So cocky on the court, but could back it up.  He kept our program alive when Wade left.  Yes i remember the NIT, but we were a tourney team before his injury.  I also remember the 26(?, To lazy to fact check) that he had to get us past holy cross during our final four run. 

4- Wade
-What can you say that hasn't been said before?  He's the best player we will ever see on our court.  Watching him split a double team and thunder it down, or seeing him catch a half court alley oop from Cordell and jam through a huge reverse at DePaul (also cutting his hand on the rim), or diving on the ground to steal the ball from Josh Howard in the final minute of a one possession game, and we can't ever forget a game that i was lucky enough to attend in the Kentucky game. When he hit his 2nd three i looked over at my dad and just said "he's gone" knowing it was my last chance to see him in our uniform.  He shaped my love of basketball and is probably more deserving of my top rank, but I'm stubborn and he stays put here.

5- Davante gardner
-Such a beast down low in a game that was making a switch to being much more guard oriented.  Terrible defender, but that touch down low and nimbleness given his size was a real treat to watch.

[rocket surgeon]

 "We've had some fun and talented teams more recently - the '94 run under KO, the '03 Final Four, the run of Sweet Sixteens under Buzz - but there is just no comparison to the atmosphere under Al."

  that's all goose is trying to say-if we are talking about "greatest" MU players, words do no justice to try to describe the good ole days because it was just so special.  the legend of AL will never be repeated.  has MU been a crap hole of b-ball ever since?  except for a couple years, there has been some pretty good/exciting stuff.  but when the subject of AL and his boys come up, goose pimple(no pun intended) and tears of emotion are produced almost as a parasympathetic reaction. 

   GOOOO-you know what i'm talking about.  admittedly, you cannot leave dwade off the short list, but all the rest belong to "the day"

[Class71]

How anyone can leave George Thompson off that list is beyond me.

Edit: not you Willie as you clicked just before me.

Must remember the age of the responders.  Brute Force George had to be seen to know how he took over games.

[Goose]

Class

George is hands down an all time great. Prior to Wade he would be in my top five. A man against boys during his time at MU.

[GGGG]

Frankly, one of the dumbest basketball players, on the court, who ever wore the Warrior uni, hey?

Jerel is MU's all time leading scorer.  And yeah he turned the ball over a little too much and took too many chances defensively, but this is really over-the-top stupid.

And IMO he may not have been the best player on any of his MU's teams.  But it is far more debatable than Goose and you are leading people to believe.

[jsglow]

Jerel was very good.  But even he would disagree with being MU top 5.

[Lennys Tap]

I understand people's predilection towards choosing familiar, "I went to school with that guy" or "I saw that guy on the court" players. Perfectly normal. However, the simple truth is our best players (for the most part) come from the era when we were an elite (maybe #2 in the nation) program.  The 10 teams from 1969 -1978 are ALL top 15 (or better) in Marquette's entire history. It only stands to reason that the best players from that era would be our best historically speaking. D Wade is an outlier. He's first team great. Kojis, Rand, Doc Rivers, Tony Smith, JFB, Jae and maybe a few others were borderline great but fall short of Thompson, Meminger, Chones, Lucas, Ellis, Tatum and Lee.

I saw Reggie Jackson play. Hall of Famer. Never saw Ruth, but have enough respect for the game's (and team's) history to acknowledge he's head and shoulders above Reggie.

[GGGG]

Jerel was very good.  But even he would disagree with being MU top 5.

As would I.  I wouldn't even put him in the top 10-15. 

[Goose]

Lenny

Well said. There were a ton of good to very good players players post Al and that list is impressive. That said, just because they were good to very good does not make them all time greats. Your analogy on Reggie vs. Ruth was spot on. I never saw Kojis play but have been told by folks who saw him play that he was very impressive. Again, we sure were lucky to see the all time greats play up close.

[Mutaman]

I saw Reggie Jackson play. Hall of Famer. Never saw Ruth, but have enough respect for the game's (and team's) history to acknowledge he's head and shoulders above Reggie.

I don't know: Did fans ever throw Baby Ruths on the field like they did Reggie Bars?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/04/reggie-jackson-yankees-candy

[Silkk the Shaka]

Jerel is MU's all time leading scorer.  And yeah he turned the ball over a little too much and took too many chances defensively, but this is really over-the-top stupid.

And IMO he may not have been the best player on any of his MU's teams.  But it is far more debatable than Goose and you are leading people to believe.

Totally agree.

Jerel's TO rate / ORtg

2006: 29.1 / 87.7
2007: 25.5 / 93.7
2008: 19.5 / 104.4
2009: 17.1 / 108.6

People developed a narrative about Jerel his frosh/soph year of a wildly inefficient offensive player who got a bunch of steals by gambling/jumping lanes and never changed it in their minds. The fact is, he cut his turnovers by more than half over the course of his career and his efficiency went way up. Steals went down over time as he became smarter about when to gamble.

Jerel was a total badass as a frosh/soph - brought a mental edge to the team from day 1. Once he learned to harness his ability properly (a.k.a the normal progression of a college player), he was a great all-around player as an upperclassman.

[Lennys Tap]

As would I.  I wouldn't even put him in the top 10-15.

Nowhere near my top 10-15. A bit too selfish and out of control for my taste.

[GGGG]

I think if Jerel would have been a fringe player his first two years, and then had the same exact junior and senior years, people would feel much better about him.  He was forced to play from day one. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

I think if Jerel would have been a fringe player his first two years, and then had the same exact junior and senior years, people would feel much better about him.  He was forced to play from day one.

Precisely

[Nukem2]

I don't think many feel badly about Jerel.  Yes, he had obvious "issues" (including his temper) as we've noted here, but he was still an excellent player.  This thread is just about the very top MU players of all time.  He is not quite at that level.  I would take a Jerel right now without a blink.

[dgies9156]

Class

George is hands down an all time great. Prior to Wade he would be in my top five. A man against boys during his time at MU.

OK Goose.  To respectfully disagree with you... and I do so out of love for the program.

George was one of the Top 6 or 7 all time greats to play for Marquette. But he was a power forward and to make him one of the five best ever, you'd have place him over Maurice Lucas and Bo Ellis.

I agree with everything you say about George but Maurice and Bo were the best ever at their positions. I hope that does not diminish George's contribution to our program, but Mo and Bo made it to the NCAA Championship. And they were integral parts of our success at the absolute highest levels of college basketball.

DWade is still best I ever saw at MU and I'm of the Al generation. He would have started for Al and Al would have loved him.

[Jockey]

OK Goose.  To respectfully disagree with you... and I do so out of love for the program.

George was one of the Top 6 or 7 all time greats to play for Marquette. But he was a power forward and to make him one of the five best ever, you'd have place him over Maurice Lucas and Bo Ellis.

Positions were not nearly as well defined 40-50 years ago like they are now. George was simply a 6'2" forward.

[GooooMarquette]

I don't know: Did fans ever throw Baby Ruths on the field like they did Reggie Bars?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/04/reggie-jackson-yankees-candy

A friend in high school was a huge Yankees (and Jackson) fan, so he bought a Reggie Bar for me. It actually was pretty good.   

[Lennys Tap]

Positions were not nearly as well defined 40-50 years ago like they are now. George was simply a 6'2" forward.

And George was a pretty darn good guard in the ABA for years so he had good range/handles.

[Mutaman]

A friend in high school was a huge Yankees (and Jackson) fan, so he bought a Reggie Bar for me. It actually was pretty good.

Found it surprisingly tasty. I was in the old stadium when this incident happened-opening day 1978. he hit it his first at bat. Since he had homered in his last 3 at bats in the series the year before,( was at that game too)  that was 4 straight round trippers.

[auburnmarquette]

Butler
Crowder
Wade
Hayward
DJO

Anything prior to 2008 I don't care too much about.  But Wade in there because, well, he probably deserves to be in there.

Wade
Lee
Crowder
Chones
Ellis

Meminger-Lucas-Butler-Thompson-Rand all close.

To the new fans I say the teams who were ranked in the top few teams of all time simply must be up there because the sum of the parts was so good. Also, Butch Lee was the national player of the year, and Wade might have been the best player in the country - but played the same year as Carmelo. In the end you can't top those two.

To the nostalgic fans I say the early era never played anything like the level of opponents that Crowder, Butler, Hayward and McNeal faced. Those guys played more elite opponents every season than the pre big East guys played in a career. Level of competition must be a factor.

[Herman Cain]

Wade
Lee
Crowder
Chones
Ellis

Meminger-Lucas-Butler-Thompson-Rand all close.

To the new fans I say the teams who were ranked in the top few teams of all time simply must be up there because the sum of the parts was so good. Also, Butch Lee was the national player of the year, and Wade might have been the best player in the country - but played the same year as Carmelo. In the end you can't top those two.

To the nostalgic fans I say the early era never played anything like the level of opponents that Crowder, Butler, Hayward and McNeal faced. Those guys played more elite opponents every season than the pre big East guys played in a career. Level of competition must be a factor.

We had excellent schedules when we were independent.  We played home and home with some very good teams who were quality in their day. For example , Detroit was a top program with some of the very best players of the ear,  guys like Dave Debusschere and Spencer Haywood and later they were coached by Dick Vitale and had some very competitive teams. We also played home and home with Loyola who won a NCAA tournament , home and home with the Badgers etc. Notre Dame and Fordham were major players back then as well. DePaul had Ray Meyer etc.

Also because we were independent and there were so few spots open in the tournament(s), every single game was important just like it is with a conference today. Maybe even more so .

The old guys were great because they did extremely well against good competition .

[Lennys Tap]

Wade
Lee
Crowder
Chones
Ellis

Meminger-Lucas-Butler-Thompson-Rand all close.

To the new fans I say the teams who were ranked in the top few teams of all time simply must be up there because the sum of the parts was so good. Also, Butch Lee was the national player of the year, and Wade might have been the best player in the country - but played the same year as Carmelo. In the end you can't top those two.

To the nostalgic fans I say the early era never played anything like the level of opponents that Crowder, Butler, Hayward and McNeal faced. Those guys played more elite opponents every season than the pre big East guys played in a career. Level of competition must be a factor.

Good stuff, Auburn. Some minor disagreement (Crowder a wee bit too high, George T a little low, but overall very well reasoned. I'm an old-timer, but your point about level of competition is well taken - the independent schedule pales next to the "old Big East" gauntlet. The one guy you mention who I just don't get is McNeal - he's not in my top 30. Where does he come in on your list?

[B. McBannerson]

Starters

Lee
Wade
Ellis
Chones
Kojis

Off the bench

Meminger
Thompson
Lucas
Novak
Whitehead
Tatum
McNeil
Matthews

[Silkk the Shaka]

Starters

Lee
Wade
Ellis
Chones
Kojis

Off the bench

Meminger
Thompson
Lucas
Novak
Whitehead
Tatum
McNeil
Matthews

Peak-BEast POY Crowder has to be somewhere on there