St. John's game thread

[CTWarrior]

Here's the thing.  Ponds misses those 3's like he usually does.  And he misses some of the tough contested shots and people on here are talking about how great the D on Ponds was.

Butler played Ponds the same way we did.  He went 0-12 in that game. 

Was it a good design from them? but a Bad design from us?

The difference in the two game plans is that Ponds is on fire right now, and was ice cold against them. 

Could we have executed the game plan better, absolutely.  Too many defensive lapses when he drove the paint.  But there was nothing intrinsically wrong with the game plan. 

Sometimes a player is better than the plan.

The thing is, if was missing the three's he would have just driven and gotten layups and fouls instead.  We should have helped on him/doubled him a lot more than we did.  Make him give up the ball.

[MUBigDance]

WE DO HAVE A DECENT CHANCE AT THE TOURNEY. 3-1 doable. 9-9. Would need 1 BE win. Being in bottom 4 we would play first day against DePaul methinks.
Also going 4-2 (3-1 + 1-1 BET) in last 6 with win over Creighton would be positive for committee.

We are a decent team this year. Inconsistent but decent. I think worthy of the Dance if we finish 9-9.

WOJO is a decent coach. Sure he could be better but he will get better and better. Our team will get better.

I HATED THE LOSS. We made mistakes. But I think we can steal one next weekend in Omaha. Frosh will he healthy and better than this. We can do it.

[D'Lo Brown]

That is exactly what I said to the wife halfway through that half.  Elliott and Cain have looked a lot like freshmen lately.

GE barely played. I figured he would be a much bigger part of the gameplan.

[GGGG]

The thing is, if was missing the three's he would have just driven and gotten layups and fouls instead.  We should have helped on him/doubled him a lot more than we did.  Make him give up the ball.

You want to run double teams at a guy who shoots 37% from 3?  I mean, he only went 4/7 from deep, so let's not pretend that he killed MU by his outside shooting.  He was 12/16 from 2 and 8/9 from the line.  He was beating guys off the dribble regularly. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

You want to run double teams at a guy who shoots 37% from 3?  I mean, he only went 4/7 from deep, so let's not pretend that he killed MU by his outside shooting.  He was 12/16 from 2 and 8/9 from the line.  He was beating guys off the dribble regularly.

Yes, we should have doubled hm on the pick and roll. Get the ball out of his hands. Anything would have been better than lamely switching a slower guy onto him every time.

[goldeneagle91114]

You want to run double teams at a guy who shoots 37% from 3?  I mean, he only went 4/7 from deep, so let's not pretend that he killed MU by his outside shooting.  He was 12/16 from 2 and 8/9 from the line.  He was beating guys off the dribble regularly.

Agree, i also wonder if wojo was more comfortable with ponds shooting 3' because of the foul trouble Heldt go into.

[nyg]

MU handed the ball six times to STJ players leading to 13 points.  Never seen anything like that.

Sacar threw ball into the stands.

Froling came into game and three seconds later, just plowed a guy offensively, then of course his layup.

Sacar had I believe four layups blocked and one shot under the basket that almost went over it.

Rowsey and Howard probably had four airballs. 

Held back to planet earth. 2 points and 5 fouls.

Hauser gets hot and Rowsey starts chuckin  He went 11 for 26 and Markus 6 for 19.

Heldt, Cain, Sacar, Froling and Elliott just not there at all.  Brutal day.

STJ shoots 60%, MU 40% 

MU fouls 23 times, STJ had 15 with Owens with 4, sitting almost entire second half.

[CTWarrior]

You want to run double teams at a guy who shoots 37% from 3?  I mean, he only went 4/7 from deep, so let's not pretend that he killed MU by his outside shooting.  He was 12/16 from 2 and 8/9 from the line.  He was beating guys off the dribble regularly.

The three pointers didn't bother me.  No help until way too late when he beat his primary defender (which was every single time he wanted to) bothered me. .  You need another defender to spy him or trap him.  Just make him give up the ball. 

[GGGG]

Yes, we should have doubled hm on the pick and roll. Get the ball out of his hands. Anything would have been better than lamely switching a slower guy onto him every time.

Did you see the easy lay ups that STJ got off the hedging PNR early in the game? 

Look, Wojo played percentages and it didn't work.

[GGGG]

The three pointers didn't bother me.  No help until way too late when he beat his primary defender (which was every single time he wanted to) bothered me. .  You need another defender to spy him or trap him.  Just make him give up the ball. 

Gotcha.  I don't disagree with that.

[CTWarrior]

MU fouls 23 times, STJ had 15 with Owens with 4, sitting almost entire second half.

It hurt that we could not take advantage of Owens absence.  Our interior guys not the kind that make you pay when your interior defender is out.

FWIW, I don't know how good SJU is as a defensive team.  I know they're a poor rebounding team.  But like Providence, a they have a lot of rangy athletic guys, and that gives us a hard time on offense and on the boards, particularly without Theo.  They were able to stick with Rowsey and Howard through the multitude of screens we set.

Asking Heldt or Froling to D up on a guys with some size and quickness who can go to 15 feet and put the ball on the floor is a tough ask, as it is not in their tool kit.  Our team should be better able to handle that with the influx of guys next year.

I guess we'll get over this one.  I remember they way SJU dismantled us last year in NY it seemed like we could never beat that team and yet we had no trouble with them in Milwaukee.

[goldeneagle91114]

It hurt that we could not take advantage of Owens absence.  Our interior guys not the kind that make you pay when your interior defender is out.

FWIW, I don't know how good SJU is as a defensive team.  I know they're a poor rebounding team.  But like Providence, a they have a lot of rangy athletic guys, and that gives us a hard time on offense and on the boards, particularly without Theo.  They were able to stick with Rowsey and Howard through the multitude of screens we set.

Asking Heldt or Froling to D up on a guys with some size and quickness who can go to 15 feet and put the ball on the floor is a tough ask, as it is not in their tool kit.  Our team should be better able to handle that with the influx of guys next year.

I guess we'll get over this one.  I remember they way SJU dismantled us last year in NY it seemed like we could never beat that team and yet we had no trouble with them in Milwaukee.

Teams have scouted MU, Multiple times today SJU players were beating Rowsey and Howard to their spot on the double screens. Wojo needs to change it up.

[GGGG]

Teams have scouted MU, Multiple times today SJU players were beating Rowsey and Howard to their spot on the double screens. Wojo needs to change it up.

And do what exactly?  Our wings can't drive.  Our bigs can't score.  It is an unbalanced offensive team that has limited options available and no real point guard.

Yeah all of that is on Wojo.  However there isn't much he can do with this bunch.

[jsglow]

And do what exactly?  Our wings can't drive.  Our bigs can't score.  It is an unbalanced offensive team that has limited options available and no real point guard.

Yeah all of that is on Wojo.  However there isn't much he can do with this bunch.

Kinda what I've said to folks for about 3 weeks now.  We've been scouted.  And we really don't have a reliable Plan B.  We are who we are at this point.

[goldeneagle91114]

And do what exactly?  Our wings can't drive.  Our bigs can't score.  It is an unbalanced offensive team that has limited options available and no real point guard.

Yeah all of that is on Wojo.  However there isn't much he can do with this bunch.

When a team has scouted you offense to the point where they can beat you to the spot, its time to call another play. the SJU players didn't even run by the double screen, they took a short cut across the lane and waited for Marcus to get there.

[GGGG]

When a team has scouted you offense to the point where they can beat you to the spot, its time to call another play. the SJU players didn't even run by the double screen, they took a short cut across the lane and waited for Marcus to get there.

They ran plays.  Distinctly remember plays run for Sam.  But again, when you are unbalanced you don't have many choices.  You can beat players to spots because they have no fear someone is going to beat them.

[CTWarrior]

They ran plays.  Distinctly remember plays run for Sam.  But again, when you are unbalanced you don't have many choices.  You can beat players to spots because they have no fear someone is going to beat them.

I agree.  Against Providence Theo did some things to keep them a little honest and against Seton Hall Heldt and Anim did.  SJU had no trouble dealing with our satellite players with single players who also were able to provide help.   The only way to get around our issues is for some of the other guys to become serious threats.  No evidence that we can count on that.

[Dr. Dunkinstien]

I feel like this years squad's youth shows at some point in everygame.  I know I am sick of that excuse, but it's true.  We really missed Theo's physicality today.  When he is engaged in the game, he just makes us tougher.  Harry doesn't bring that.  I was worried about this game with him in the lineup!  I knew Ponds was going to get every call.  Right now he is the NCAA darling, right up there with OU' s Young.  That is where my pregame concern came from.  When a scorer gets going, and continues to get confidence at the free throw line, they can become unstoppable.  The refs gave this guy uncontested shot again and again at the charity stripe, and his confidence continued to grow. From there GAME OVER!  He is too good once he gets rolling!

[Dr. Blackheart]

As today showed, replacing Andrew next season is critical. 

[nyg]

I feel like this years squad's youth shows at some point in everygame.  I know I am sick of that excuse, but it's true.  We really missed Theo's physicality today.  When he is engaged in the game, he just makes us tougher.  Harry doesn't bring that.  I was worried about this game with him in the lineup!  I knew Ponds was going to get every call.  Right now he is the NCAA darling, right up there with OU' s Young.  That is where my pregame concern came from.  When a scorer gets going, and continues to get confidence at the free throw line, they can become unstoppable.  The refs gave this guy uncontested shot again and again at the charity stripe, and his confidence continued to grow. From there GAME OVER!  He is too good once he gets rolling!

The refs didn't give him anything.  MU fouled him and others, no question.  Refs can't continue to be excuses every game, MU just tends to foul, a lot.  Probably last in BE play and bottom 20% in NCAA. 

Ponds is just a great player, who really couldn't shoot threes, but lately he has and man is he quick.  No match for any MU player.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Thought we abandoned the 2/3 way too early - it was effective. I don’t remember using it at all in the second half?

Instead we kept letting Rowsey get posted up and ponds go to the cup against anyone trying to check him.

[GGGG]

Thought we abandoned the 2/3 way too early - it was effective. I don’t remember using it at all in the second half?

Instead we kept letting Rowsey get posted up and ponds go the cup on against anyone trying to check him.

After coming out in man in the second half, which SJU abused, we switched to zone.  It was initially successful, but then SJU started getting inside with ease.  I think they scored on 3-4 straight possessions at some point.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Gotcha.  I think sju had one basket against it in the 1st half (drive from high post)?

I would’ve stayed in it - the isolation on Rowsey and attacking of ponds could’ve been reduced in the 2/3. Take your chances they beat you in another way.

[MUfan12]

It was a crap zone. All SJ had to do was screen one of the top two and they got whatever they wanted.

[Floorslapper]

Tough game for MU.  Ponds in a zone.  Mullin did a good job of getting Ponds into switch situations that left Hauser to guard.  St. John's plays hard AF.  Thought we did too.  But, St. John's is simply more athletic.  They basically played a 5 man rotation today.

We applied full court pressure maybe 4 possessions?  Should have picked them up full court all game..using Cain and Elliott much more.  Should have put a couple of hard fouls on Ponds going to the basket.  We missed Theo.

At this rate, not sure I'd put Wojo ahead of Mullin in Big East coaching ranks.