Biggest shot in Marquette history?

[martyconlonontherun]

Lets be real about the importance of being conference champions. It's cool and awesome right now but it is not something people outside of my will remember three years from now. Do you guys really care if the bulls, bucks, packers, or bears win the division? No you care about post season success. Ill take any shot in the ncaa tournament before this.

[mileskishnish72]

Great line re: $ever, Sultan. Yes an OT buzzer-beater @ MSG for a Big East title is terrific - got to be in the top 3.
As for #1 - - - Send it in, Jerome!

[LloydMooresLegs]

One of my all time favorites.....not in the top ten biggest....is Doc's tomahawk dunk.

Also saw the ND buzzer beater against ND.

chili- was that tomahawk against Louisville in the 82-83 season?  That's one of my best (one of the few really good ones) bball memories from my years on campus. 

I would rate this top 5.

 I might put Diener against Holy Cross higher than some other posters- MU loses that game, and not only does history change (No FF, DWade legacy, Big East? etc), but in the moment it would have been so disappointing given expectations. 

[MU82]

Here's an interesting (at least I think so) question, and one I'm surprised hasn't been asked yet in this thread ...

In the grand scheme, was Vander's shot really more important than Junior's 3 vs. UConn?

Think about it for a second. Vander's came at the end of a tie game. If he misses it, the worst that happens is we go to another OT. We're the better team; St. John's is undermanned; we're at worst a 50-50 chance to still win the title.

If Junior doesn't make that 3 ... we lose! There will be no Big East regular-season title. Period.

Beyond that, it was in the league opener. We were unranked and there were plenty of legitimate questions about how good the team was. Would losing that game have changed the "psychology" of the season? Or asked another way: Did winning that game -- followed by the dramatic wins over GT and Pitt -- create the mood that god everybody (perhaps even the players themselves) thinking that this could be a special season?

So yes, Vander gets all the credit for delivering a conference title with a tremendous, huge shot. Aside from Whitehead's Final Four miracle, Vander's shot feels like perhaps the greatest in school history. But let's not forget where this Big East Championship Season really started:

On Junior's fingertips!!

[CTWarrior]

Here's an interesting (at least I think so) question, and one I'm surprised hasn't been asked yet in this thread ...

In the grand scheme, was Vander's shot really more important than Junior's 3 vs. UConn?

Great post.  I know I hadn't thought about it, but you are right.  Swap these games so that the UConn game is game 18 of the Big East schedule and St John's was game 1, there would be no doubt.

As a Red Sox fan, everyone remembers Carlton Fisk's homer in the 12th inning of game 6 of the 75 World Series, but if Bernie Carbo doesn't it the 3 run homer with two out in the 8th to tie it, there are no extra innings.  Carbo's HR was undoubtedly the bigger homer, but it has largely been forgotten outside of Boston.

But anyway you slice it, I'll remember Vander's drive for a long, long time.  Beats Doc's bomb vs ND and Jae's 3 pointer against Washington for the biggest MU shots I've seen live, that's for sure.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Name ten shots that were bigger.

hear hear... I'm struggling to find many.

Novak's 3 against ND: awesome but not as big
Mason's UL game winner: awesome but not as big

Can any true MU historians cobble together a top ten list?

Here's my challenge - Vanders shot clinched a Big East championship... For a shot to be bigger it'd have to have clinched a more significant achievement for our program.... NC? FF? Elite 8?

[real chili 83]

chili- was that tomahawk against Louisville in the 82-83 season?  That's one of my best (one of the few really good ones) bball memories from my years on campus. 

I would rate this top 5.

 I might put Diener against Holy Cross higher than some other posters- MU loses that game, and not only does history change (No FF, DWade legacy, Big East? etc), but in the moment it would have been so disappointing given expectations. 

Yes, and I believe Schlundt with the assist.

[MU82]

The thread was incomplete without this ...

[RJax55]

hear hear... I'm struggling to find many.

Novak's 3 against ND: awesome but not as big
Mason's UL game winner: awesome but not as big

Can any true MU historians cobble together a top ten list?

Here's my challenge - Vanders shot clinched a Big East championship... For a shot to be bigger it'd have to have clinched a more significant achievement for our program.... NC? FF? Elite 8?

Might be a little easier to break down by coach... I'll take Crean and Buzz:

Buzz:
1.) DJO vs. 'Cuse (clinched a Sweet 16 birth)
2.) Vander vs. SJU (Game winner, clinched a Big East Title)
3.) Jae vs. Wash (Game winner, when down)
4.) Butler vs. SJU (Game winner)
5.) Junior vs. UConn (Tied game, highest degree of difficulty)

Crean:
1.) Diener vs. HC (clinched an NCAA game, launched the FF run)
2.) Novak vs. ND (Game winner)
3.) James vs. Valpo (Game winner)
4.) Mason vs. UL (Game winner, when down)
5.) Diener vs. SLU (Game winner)

[Goose]

4ever

I disagree and think this shot is top five of game winners and probably top three to me. Whitehead and Luke to beat Madison historically are bigger to me. I have watched a lot of MU games myself, though missed yesterday's, and think this and the Diener Holy Cross are two biggest shots in post Al. There may be more exciting like Doc's ND win even his ally oop that Real mentioned, but they were more entertaining, not bigger to me.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The game was tied when Vander's shot went up. In the worst case scenario, the game goes to double OT. I think shots that snatch victory from the jaws of defeat are much more dramatic and therefore "bigger."

Absolutely agree.  At least they feel bigger.  The opponent has something to do with it as well.  This is a game we should have won easily and were winning easily, crazy it even got to that shot.  The fact that if the shot didn't go in we play another 5 minutes is also an interesting take.

Then, on the flip side, the win clinched a share of the Big East championship...thus it is big in the moment.  As someone also stated, Junior doesn't hit the shot against UConn, then VB's shot yesterday doesn't mean anything.  Many ways to look at it.

Great shot, great victory, champions.  Top shot in MU history...laughable.  People can slot it wherever they want in their top 5, top 10, whatever.  Top shot....no way.

[Tums Festival]

Yes, and I believe Schlundt with the assist.

Yes, Schlundt with the lob assist.

[MUSF]

In the grand scheme, was Vander's shot really more important than Junior's 3 vs. UConn?

More important? No.

Bigger moment? Yes.

First, Junior didn't know that the BEast championship was on the line when he took that shot. Nor did anyone else. Vander absolutely knew the significance of his moment.

Second, Junior's shot was simply a prayer, therefore much less pressure. No one is going to blame Junior if he misses that shot. He had absolutely nothing to lose. If Vander misses, the haters would be out in full force. This message board would be full of posts about him being a "disappointment", "not big enough for the moment", and "not as good as advertised". Not to mention the local BADGER state media that would have feasted on his misfortune.

All of the above makes Vander's shot better IMO.

[mugrad2006]

All I can say is that when that shot went in the mrs and ran around the condo high fiving and screaming. Pretty sure the neighbors couldn't figure out the ruckus at 3 pm on a saturday with no football on...

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

1.) DJO vs. 'Cuse (clinched a Sweet 16 birth)
2.) Vander vs. SJU (Game winner, clinched a Big East Title)

I'd switch these... BE championship is bigger than sweet sixteen in my opinion.... If for no other reason than we get a trophy

[MU82]

I'd switch these... BE championship is bigger than sweet sixteen in my opinion.... If for no other reason than we get a trophy

I totally, totally, totally disagree with the thinking behind this statement.

As much as winning the Big East thrills me, advancing in the NCAA tournament is far bigger than winning a conference regular-season or postseason title.

Do you think Kansas fans say of the 2005 team: "We lost in the NCAAs to Bucknell but at least we got a trophy and banner for winning a share of the Big 12"? Yeah, but Kansas is a blueblood, right? OK, as a Marquette fan, I would not have said, "It really sucked losing to Holy Cross but thank goodness we won the Conference USA title."

Lots and lots and lots of examples of teams winning their conference titles and then flaming out early in the NCAAs. I doubt too many fans of those teams wouldn't have traded the conference title for a Sweet 16, Elite 8 or Final Four.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I totally, totally, totally disagree with the thinking behind this statement.

As much as winning the Big East thrills me, advancing in the NCAA tournament is far bigger than winning a conference regular-season or postseason title.

Do you think Kansas fans say of the 2005 team: "We lost in the NCAAs to Bucknell but at least we got a trophy and banner for winning a share of the Big 12"? Yeah, but Kansas is a blueblood, right? OK, as a Marquette fan, I would not have said, "It really sucked losing to Holy Cross but thank goodness we won the Conference USA title."

Lots and lots and lots of examples of teams winning their conference titles and then flaming out early in the NCAAs. I doubt too many fans of those teams wouldn't have traded the conference title for a Sweet 16, Elite 8 or Final Four.

its an interesting point to debate... I'd submit winning the BE is head and shoulders above CUSA. I'd agree an elite eight and beyond would top this.

What if this were our third consecutive BEAST title rather than our potentially third straight sweet sixteen? Really think thatd be less impressive?

[MU82]

its an interesting point to debate... I'd submit winning the BE is head and shoulders above CUSA. I'd agree an elite eight and beyond would top this.

What if this were our third consecutive beast title rather than our potentially third straight sweet sixteen? Really think thatd be less impressive?

Maybe it's just me, but I would take any NCAA tourney win over any conference title.

Same with pro teams. Any playoff success trumps anything that happens in the regular season.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Any big buckets in the 1952 catholic invitational?

[🏀]

Any big buckets in the 1952 catholic invitational?

There was about 5 buckets, all game.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Might be a little easier to break down by coach... I'll take Crean and Buzz:

Buzz:
1.) DJO vs. 'Cuse (clinched a Sweet 16 birth)
2.) Vander vs. SJU (Game winner, clinched a Big East Title)
3.) Jae vs. Wash (Game winner, when down)
4.) Butler vs. SJU (Game winner)
5.) Junior vs. UConn (Tied game, highest degree of difficulty)

Crean:
1.) Diener vs. HC (clinched an NCAA game, launched the FF run)
2.) Novak vs. ND (Game winner)
3.) James vs. Valpo (Game winner)
4.) Mason vs. UL (Game winner, when down)
5.) Diener vs. SLU (Game winner)

Interesting list.  Hutchins making the three against Louisville at Louisville to basically put us in the tournament (Mike Deane coach) was another big one.  Someone mentioned Wardle's shot. Mason's free throws.  Etc.

There were some insane shots from Novak in the Missouri game in OT in the NCAAs. 

Lots of big shots over the years, several from the McGuire era also not mentioned.

[setyoursightsnorth]

Same player...same arena...same basket...as this one from last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acIdr5OvV5M

So weird not to see Vander without tattoos. Hahaha.

[AZWarrior]

Keefe

Was lucky enough to be at the Doc ND beater myself. Great win and equally as great atmosphere.

Me too!  Great moment in my life!!   

[keefe]

The game was tied when Vander's shot went up. In the worst case scenario, the game goes to double OT. I think shots that snatch victory from the jaws of defeat are much more dramatic and therefore "bigger."

Your logic is sound. It is wasted on an idiot like "The Sultan." At the end of the day this is entirely based on each individual's experience. Some here weren't born when J took Butch Lee's full court pass to put us in the title game so they have no experience of it. I lived overseas and had no knowledge of many of these shots in the 90's so they have little import for me. I was at the ND game and saw Doc's shot and it was fantastic.

4ever, there is nothing wrong with your logic. Fact is, there are numerous "biggest shots" and each is correct. Don't let a pathetic person with a pathological need to be "correct" tell you otherwise. Bullies are funny people. Funny, but in the end, pathetic.

[keefe]

Any big buckets in the 1952 catholic invitational?

Was Johnny Glaser on that squad?

Whatever happened to The Red Baron? Does he still come here?