[Paint Touches] Transfer Tracker

[brewcity77]

Wonder if Oregon's Casey Benson can play defense. Grad transfer, announced this morning, and on paper looks like a good fit.

[4everwarriors]

Hauser should of shot more threes last year.
Ellenson should of taken less threes the year before.
Does Hauser passing up shots help team chemistry?
Did Ellenson not passing up shots hurt team chemistry?

Dis a haiku, hey?

[muguru]

Wonder if Oregon's Casey Benson can play defense. Grad transfer, announced this morning, and on paper looks like a good fit.

He's going to Grand Canyon where his brother is an asst Coach.

[Dawson Rental]

And I will take my roster full of major talent and less chemistry against your chemistry laden above average talent team and beat you a vast majority of the time. Overall..talent will win out a vast majority of time. Afterall..that's how North Carolina won the Championship..most talented team in the country. MOST National Champions are.

Sure, because losers make the extra pass on offense while winners jack up a shot before anyone else can take it.

[wadesworld]

Wonder if Oregon's Casey Benson can play defense. Grad transfer, announced this morning, and on paper looks like a good fit.

Could Oregon match Crean by being a Final Four team one year and missing the NCAA Tournament the next year?  Boucher graduates, Brookes and Dorsey declare for the NBA draft, Benson transfers, and I would guess Bell will leave as well.  Bigby-Williams and Pirtchard return and they bring in a 5 star, but they are losing a lot of talent.

[GGGG]

You wouldn't take the Lawson's, and if you sit here and tell me right now, that IF they Lawson's came to MU, and brought them a National Championship, you wouldn't feel good about it, then I'd say you are one of those guys that is okay with MU being a "nice little program, that wins sometimes, graduate players, and has no transfers". After all the years you have been following MU ted, you'd be satisfied with a program like that??

Ted's point is that, despite their talent, he feels that the Lawsons would actually harm Marquette's quest toward a national title.  And I agree with that.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Okay so let's say for example MU brings in two grad transfers, or hell even two traditional transfers that have say two years of eligibility left, however you want to play it. Now, let's say these transfers were so freaking good, MU won a national championship with them. But, because of their presence, a couple of players that are Sophomores(but are bench players, but get decent minutes), decide to transfer before that season. I'll tell you what, if there is ANYONE here that would rather have those two players back(because they hate transfers), then MU winning a national championship, on the backs of "outside players", Then they are smoking something really really good. The point is, you ALWAYS do whatever you have to do to upgrade the talent on your team. And if it causes some players to transfer..well, you know what?? They just missed out on being part of a National Championship team...their loss. Upgrade the talent whenever possible and deal with any fallout from it at the appropriate time. Talent will win out in the end a majority of the time.

First, I would say grad transfers are different than traditional transfer. They will be gone after a year. They are less likely to cause issues because the players behind them and the players we are recruiting see a clear path to playing time.

Next, I would say of course you take them if you are going to win a national championship. I don't even think you need to get to that level to take them. If you reread my posts I have never said don't take talented transfers. That's dumb. Of course, you should take talented transfers. I love talented transfers. I'm the guy who writes update after update for two different articles for Paint Touches ranking the talent of different transfers. What I have been saying in this conversation is that talent isn't the only thing to consider when recruiting transfers. You have to balance it with the impact it could have on your roster.

Finally, I would say that the Lawson bros ain't winning us a national championship. As I see it now, we are not one or two pieces away from being a final four contender in 18-19. Maybe after seeing us next year I'll think otherwise. The Lawson bros are talented, but with they risk they brought, I prefer other options for our last two scholarships.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So you were never talking about team chemistry, you were talking about roster balance.

As I said earlier, chemistry in this thread has been used to talk about a lot of different things. If you look at how this discussion started, chemistry was being used to describe roster balance. And roster balance does play into team chemistry. Programs thrive when the players who aren't getting playing time are still happy with their role. Just look at what Wisconsin does.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You have to care about wins and losses though, because ultimately that's what matters. It's about winning and winning big. Could/should this current team be REALLY good in '18-'19 if Joey comes?? Absolutely, they SHOULD. But, I emphasize the word should because there are no guarantees they will be. I think that's what people forget..anything could happen before that season starts. That's why, you HAVE to try to seize the opportunity to win now..Let's just use a hypothetical..Let's say MU could land Egor AND Cam Johnson as grad transfers. for next year..people honestly wouldn't take that at the risk of a player or two, (that would likely be rotational players at best, but not main cogs) transferring?? I sure as hell would, you know why?? Because if you could add both of those guys, you are looking at a team with AT LEAST Sweet 16 talent or better.

I would take that every day of the week, even if it means a player or two transfer. Because in all likelihood, you could easily replace the player or two that transferred with guys equal to(or likely even better), than who left. So what have you lost?? You still have a scholarship for Joey(Koulachov), Now, you have Cam Johnson coming back another year still, you'd be coming off a minimum of a Sweet 16 appearance(hypothetically), AND you have an open scholarship or two to add two more players for '18-'19 when everyone thinks they will be REALLY good.

There is absolutely NO losing in that scenario..in fact, I'd say it's a HUGE win..you made your team better for next year and in the process likely made it even better for '18-'19 as well. And you did all of that by adding MORE talent AND Experience.

And hell, even if something happens and '18-'19 isn't as good as what everyone anticipates it will be, guess what?? At least you have a sweet 16(or deeper) from '17-18 to fall back on. Win now..worry about the future when it gets here.

I'm personally not willing to "let the youngsters" play this year for "seasoning" them for '18-'19 with the anticipation that, that is THE year..because THE year could never happen. Especially if it means NOT making the NCAA's again this year...that's a step back again. And if you turn next years team over to a bunch of Freshman and Sophomores, I think that is likely to happen(No NCAA). if you can add more talent and experience this upcoming year, why in the hell would no one do it?? You'd be a total fool to not want that.

I care about winning and losing. Just not in the comparison exercise when we were determining the value of two players.

You are talking about grad transfers here. Not traditional transfers. They pose less of a risk because current players will see their quickest path to playing time as staying rather than transferring. They also don't impact future recruiting because again, they will be gone after a year.

I don't believe in "letting the youngsters play to get seasoning." You should be doing everything you can to win the games right in front of you (the most important game is the next one after all  ). What I do believe in is that sometimes the value of a four year player is greater than the value of a more talented 2 year player. When that is the case, the coach needs to make a judgement call on if the 2 year player is worth the risk of losing the 4 year player. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Wojo went for Rowsey and it cost him Traci. Based on what I know now, I think that was a good choice. If Traci ends up being the A10 player of the year his senior year, maybe it wasn't a good choice.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wonder if Oregon's Casey Benson can play defense. Grad transfer, announced this morning, and on paper looks like a good fit.

I'd categorize him as a solid defender. Burned on outside shots a lot. But very good at containing isolation and excellent at guarding the pick and roll. Very efficient offensive player as well. Guru is likely right though, he probably wants to go play for his brother.

[muguru]

First, I would say grad transfers are different than traditional transfer. They will be gone after a year. They are less likely to cause issues because the players behind them and the players we are recruiting see a clear path to playing time.

Next, I would say of course you take them if you are going to win a national championship. I don't even think you need to get to that level to take them. If you reread my posts I have never said don't take talented transfers. That's dumb. Of course, you should take talented transfers. I love talented transfers. I'm the guy who writes update after update for two different articles for Paint Touches ranking the talent of different transfers. What I have been saying in this conversation is that talent isn't the only thing to consider when recruiting transfers. You have to balance it with the impact it could have on your roster.

Finally, I would say that the Lawson bros ain't winning us a national championship. As I see it now, we are not one or two pieces away from being a final four contender in 18-19. Maybe after seeing us next year I'll think otherwise. The Lawson brothers are talented, but with they risk they brought, I prefer other options for our last two scholarships.

Okay, so let's try this...let's say MU landed the Lawson's..and let's say that caused 2 or 3 players to transfer(that aren't named Sam, Markus or Harry)..Now you have 2-3 scholarships to use for '18-'19..One obviously goes to Joey..Now let's say one of the others goes to Quentin Grimes. With the third let's just for argument sake say Ethan Happ(insert any really good grad transfer) is grad transferring and you land him..You mean to tell me you don't think a stcaked team like that...Markus, Joey, Sam, Dedric Lawson, KJ Lawson, Froling, Happ based on talent alone couldn;t win you a National Championship?? I sure do, without question.

The point is, if MU ever aspires to become elite again, or to become a blue blood, at some point they HAVE to take chances like the Lawson's for example..Maybe it works out, and if it does, you win a National Championship, and from there, the sky is the limit with recruiting etc. If it doesn't..well it doesn't. Are you really that much worse off then before you tried this?? Not really IMO.

Gonzaga became transfer U this year, look what it did for them. Do you think they regret for one second taking in Williams-Goss, Jordan Matthews and Johnathon Williams?? I guarantee you they don't..Look what it did for them. No, they didn't win the Championship, but they came awfully damn close, and they made it further then the Zags have ever made it before, the bounce from that can't be measured accurately.

Just out of curiosity, who would you give the two remaining scholarships too??

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Okay, so let's try this...let's say MU landed the Lawson's..and let's say that caused 2 or 3 players to transfer(that aren't named Sam, Markus or Harry)..Now you have 2-3 scholarships to use for '18-'19..One obviously goes to Joey..Now let's say one of the others goes to Quentin Grimes. With the third let's just for argument sake say Ethan Happ(insert any really good grad transfer) is grad transferring and you land him..You mean to tell me you don't think a stcaked team like that...Markus, Joey, Sam, Dedric Lawson, KJ Lawson, Froling, Happ based on talent alone couldn;t win you a National Championship?? I sure do, without question.

The point is, if MU ever aspires to become elite again, or to become a blue blood, at some point they HAVE to take chances like the Lawson's for example..Maybe it works out, and if it does, you win a National Championship, and from there, the sky is the limit with recruiting etc. If it doesn't..well it doesn't. Are you really that much worse off then before you tried this?? Not really IMO.

Gonzaga became transfer U this year, look what it did for them. Do you think they regret for one second taking in Williams-Goss, Jordan Matthews and Johnathon Williams?? I guarantee you they don't..Look what it did for them. No, they didn't win the Championship, but they came awfully damn close, and they made it further then the Zags have ever made it before, the bounce from that can't be measured accurately.

Just out of curiosity, who would you give the two remaining scholarships too??

The Lawsons were never gonna come to MU. Let it go, man.  Plus, they're punks.  Check out the snapchat video floating around twitter.

As for the last two schollies, I am not TAMU, but I think his answer would be 1 grad transfer + BPA transfer whether that be a grad, or a a traditional.  Need to save 1 scholarship for Joey in 2018.

[muguru]

The Lawsons were never gonna come to MU. Let it go, man.  Plus, they're punks.  Check out the snapchat video floating around twitter.

As for the last two schollies, I am not TAMU, but I think his answer would be 1 grad transfer + BPA transfer whether that be a grad, or a a traditional.  Need to save 1 scholarship for Joey in 2018.

Well I'm figuring that's what he wants too, but I'm hoping he'd give names, just because I'm Curious.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Well I'm figuring that's what he wants too, but I'm hoping he'd give names, just because I'm Curious.

He gives plenty of names in his transfer tracker, the thread in which you are posting on.

[muguru]

He gives plenty of names in his transfer tracker, the thread in which you are posting on.

Those are his rankings, but it may not necessarily mean it's who HE prefers.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Givin this one out early. He doesn't look like much at first glance. But look a little closer. There is....intriguing potential here.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066256/eric-hester

[DegenerateDish]

MU should give Charlie Moore a call.

[Jay Bee]

Moore... a PG who must sit this year. Hmmm

[Tha Hound]

Jeff Goodman‏Verified account
@GoodmanESPN

Cal guard Charlie Moore is transferring, source told ESPN. Wants to get back closer to home in Chicago to be near ailing father.

Closer to home in Chicago.

[muguru]

MU should give Charlie Moore a call.

I would think he'll end up at Illinois.

[muguru]

Moore... a PG who must sit this year. Hmmm

Not necessarily, his father is ailing, could probably get a waiver. It's been done in the past.

[GGGG]

Not necessarily, his father is ailing, could probably get a waiver. It's been done in the past.

NCAA closed that loophole a couple years ago.  And it would be better for MU if he did have to sit.  Get him a class behind Markus.

EDIT:  But I think you are right.  I bet he's not only going to Illinois but it's already in the bag.

[Jay Bee]

Not necessarily, his father is ailing, could probably get a waiver. It's been done in the past.

Sometimes rules change.

#BadInfo

[muguru]

NCAA closed that loophole a couple years ago.  And it would be better for MU if he did have to sit.  Get him a class behind Markus.

EDIT:  But I think you are right.  I bet he's not only going to Illinois but it's already in the bag.

MU would technically be closer however. 

[GGGG]

MU would technically be closer however. 

And Wojo may have connections with the Mac Irvin folks from the Jabari Parker days.