Grades

[5DollarPitcher]

I am aware of how the grading system works.

Let me propose a question for you.

It is pretty well established that Marquette was the second best program in the country in the 70s. However, Al only won one national title. That means that eight other years he did not win a post season tournament. What grade would you give Al?
Think very carefully because if it's not the first letter of the alphabet, some posters may be a little upset considering his name is on our court.

Nova received a 1 seed. That means through the first 30+ games of the year they were one of the 4 best teams in the country. I think that is worth an A regardless of if they lose Friday.

Unfortunately, I was not around to see that part of MU's history.  I admire Al and the swagger that was the program of the 70s, but I will reserve judgement because of the aforementioned.

We may be at an agree to disagree with Nova, because I disagree with that entire paragraph.  Do you rate the 2011 Packers an A?  I'd say they were a B-range team (A offense, C- defense) that was exposed as such in the playoffs against Kaepernick.

[Its DJOver]

Unfortunately, I was not around to see that part of MU's history.  I admire Al and the swagger that was the program of the 70s, but I will reserve judgement because of the aforementioned.

We may be at an agree to disagree with Nova, because I disagree with that entire paragraph.  Do you rate the 2011 Packers an A?  I'd say they were a B-range team (A offense, C- defense) that was exposed as such in the playoffs against Kaepernick.

I wasn't around for Al either but I know he was an A coach.  Comparing a 18 game season with a almost 40 game season is a bit of a stretch, and I don't really follow football so I can't answer your question, but I don't know how you can disagree that Nova was a top 4 team from November to March.

If season success is only valued on national championships, then 300+ teams will be getting an F this year.

[tower912]

That's been the difference between you and me all season. I raised them when he left.

How would we rate Wojo? I would rate Met and Developing.  The defensive holes and roster deficiencies (balance, athleticsm) are improvement areas.  It is a critical year for him upcoming as has been repeated to death here.

I know.   We valued a 6'5 guard in a league of big guards differently.    I saw his departure as affecting depth and rotations and compelling Wojo to force feed minutes to freshmen who either had to sink or swim.    You saw him as a disappointment that the team was better off without.       We shall continue to disagree.   

[Marcus92]

Between different expectations for the program and this season and different interpretations of what different grades represent, this feels like a totally meaningless exercise.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I know.   We valued a 6'5 guard in a league of big guards differently.    I saw his departure as affecting depth and rotations and compelling Wojo to force feed minutes to freshmen who either had to sink or swim.    You saw him as a disappointment that the team was better off without.       We shall continue to disagree.

Sacar, Greg and Jamal stepped in nicely in that space including height. Sacar earned Haanif's starting spit through effort. He was a blocker. I would say the team would support my perspective.

[tower912]

I see a lot of beat up players at the end.   Sacar being able to play 20 mpg at multiple positions giving others an opportunity to rest is underappreciated. 

[dgies9156]

Unfortunately, I was not around to see that part of MU's history.  I admire Al and the swagger that was the program of the 70s, but I will reserve judgement because of the aforementioned.

I was and our beloved Warriors got a lot of Bs in the 1970s. We lost a few we should have won.

1977 was an A+.

1978 was a C—- because of an awful game in Indianapolis

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

None of this matters until the Gol_en Eagles finally get some "d".  Way too many instances last night of PSU players going up for a shot and the MU defenders didn't even contest it - staying on the ground with hands down.  And the rebounding problems continue, as they have all season.

I admit I am very frustrated right now.  I was a big advocate for Ben Howland when we hired Wojo and I watched Mississippi State pull apart a talented Louisville team by playing great defense and pairing it with a well rounded offense.  MU is a great offensive team but that is only 50% of the puzzle.  It is maddening that we cannot play defense this far into Wojo's tenure.

And before everyone gets on me as new to the board: 1) add 3.000 to my post count since this is a new login, and; 2) I am not a Wojo-hater, just thought there was a much better option at the time of his hire.  I have stated that if I turn out wrong on that I will post the admission of my error in judgement on here for everyone to see without complaint.  I just wish I had reason to do that at this point...

Howland wasn't an option. Terrible human being

[MUfan12]

I see a lot of beat up players at the end.   Sacar being able to play 20 mpg at multiple positions giving others an opportunity to rest is underappreciated.

Agreed.

Sacar ended up guarding the other team's best player most of the time, and got in foul trouble a bunch. No doubt in my mind that being able to throw Cheatham in there would have been beneficial.

[Goose]

dgies

1978 C-, that might be a stretch. Aside from the obvious, MU lost their us against the world aura well before the Miami of Ohio game. They were ranked #1 in the country and lost to Loyola that year.

[warriorchick]

Do you realize there is no higher grade than an A? So losing in the Sweet Sixteen and not even winning your regular season conference merits the highest POSSIBLE grade in the ledger? I wish I had some of you in my high school courses - then I could have gone to Penn and I’d at least be cheering for a tourney team.

How many students in a given class should be expected to receive an A?

There are 351 D1 basketball schools.  If you make it to the sweet sixteen, you are in the top 5%.  How many of your high school teachers only gave A's to the top one or two students in a class of 30?

[Eldon]

None of this matters until the Gol_en Eagles finally get some "d".  Way too many instances last night of PSU players going up for a shot and the MU defenders didn't even contest it - staying on the ground with hands down.  And the rebounding problems continue, as they have all season.

I admit I am very frustrated right now.  I was a big advocate for Ben Howland when we hired Wojo and I watched Mississippi State pull apart a talented Louisville team by playing great defense and pairing it with a well rounded offense.  MU is a great offensive team but that is only 50% of the puzzle.  It is maddening that we cannot play defense this far into Wojo's tenure.

And before everyone gets on me as new to the board: 1) add 3.000 to my post count since this is a new login, and; 2) I am not a Wojo-hater, just thought there was a much better option at the time of his hire.  I have stated that if I turn out wrong on that I will post the admission of my error in judgement on here for everyone to see without complaint.  I just wish I had reason to do that at this point...

2018-19 Meme Watch: Golen Eagles

[Charlotte Warrior]

How many students in a given class should be expected to receive an A?

There are 351 D1 basketball schools.  If you make it to the sweet sixteen, you are in the top 5%.  How many of your high school teachers only gave A's to the top one or two students in a class of 30?

You can grade on a curve versus Springfield Community College students or grade on a curve versus Harvard Students.   You Choose.   My only other comment = everyone is way to kind on Wojo's grade - He's the reason we have terrible positioning, don't cut off passing lanes, slow rotations.   Most of the downgrade marks and comments your giving to players should be Wojo's   Guys put it all out there.  Wojo did a horrible job coaching - now 4 years running.   He'll get a fifth and maybe even a sixth, however, I'm now convinced he won't ever reach his potential.   How does he not see that he can't coach defense and get help?  He obviously doesn't self assess.  We made Penn State look like Golden State.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I wasn't aware college basketball was a video game with the coach controlling all five players at once

[Eldon]

Howland wasn't an option. Terrible human being

That's uncharacteristically harsh language for you.  What are you basing this on?  (SI article?)

[5DollarPitcher]

How many students in a given class should be expected to receive an A?

There are 351 D1 basketball schools.  If you make it to the sweet sixteen, you are in the top 5%.  How many of your high school teachers only gave A's to the top one or two students in a class of 30?

So since Nova proved to be that much better than McNeese State they get an A?  If we were grading based on where a team is in KenPom why not just look at KenPom?  If Nova doesn't make the FF and doesn't bring home a Big East regular season title (they did not), they did not have an A season in the lens of their capabilities/expectations.

Now if McNeese State made the tourney and won a couple games, they had an A season in the lens of what their team is capable of for sure.  Just like Loyola or even UMBC.

[Billy Hoyle]

Rowsey is an all big east honorable mention AND has MUs all time single season scoring record.

Anything less than a B means the grader is drunk, at best.

he probably gave up as many points as he scored with his lack of D and turnovers. I'd give him a BC (the old grading scale from my days at MU) at best.

[5DollarPitcher]

he probably gave up as many points as he scored with his lack of D and turnovers. I'd give him a BC (the old grading scale from my days at MU) at best.

The school still grades this way, and I actually prefer it.

[Its DJOver]

So since Nova proved to be that much better than McNeese State they get an A?  If we were grading based on where a team is in KenPom why not just look at KenPom?  If Nova doesn't make the FF and doesn't bring home a Big East regular season title (they did not), they did not have an A season in the lens of their capabilities/expectations.

Now if McNeese State made the tourney and won a couple games, they had an A season in the lens of what their team is capable of for sure.  Just like Loyola or even UMBC.

So you grade on whether on not you finish first in your conference and post season success? It's fine if you do, I just think most would disagree.

Also just because they didn't win the regular season doenst mean they weren't better than X. Swept the season series, was ranked higher, won the BET tourney, got a better 1 seed in the NCAA. A lot of people would say that's better than just winning the regular season, and going out in the round of 32.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That's uncharacteristically harsh language for you.  What are you basing this on?  (SI article?)

Just what I've heard. Honestly, what is out in public knowledge is bad enough. Guy kicks an undergrad manager off his team and advocates for him to get expelled for drinking underage with some of the players and then it is later revealed that he is having underage players over to his house and drinking with them? Hypocrite of the highest order. You won't find many former players that feel warm and fuzzy about him.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Howland wasn't an option. Terrible human being

Ouch, TAMU!  Terrible human being or someone who made a huge mistake in his last year or two at UCLA?

I don't disagree with you on him not being an option after his exit at UCLA but I do think he is clearly a superior coach.

To cover some other topics, Andrew was an outstanding OFFENSIVE player.  On defense, to put it kindly, he was a liability.  It often seemed like he had little to no interest in participating on that end of the floor and that hurt us time and again.  Regarding Sacar, in my opinion, he was a defensive stud for the most part.  As stated, he guarded multiple positions and did it with 110% effort all the time.  If his attitude on "d" becomes contagious, we're in the NCAAs as a single-digit seed next year.

[f/k/a humanlung]

2018-19 Meme Watch: Golen Eagles

Thank you, Eldon...   

[mileskishnish72]

You can grade on a curve versus Springfield Community College students or grade on a curve versus Harvard Students.   

At Harvard, something like 95% graduate with honors. Talk about grade inflation!

[dgies9156]

Every class sets course objectives before the course begins. You grade based on accomplishments of the course objectives.

What we have in here is a difference in what the objective should be. A lot depends on your age and when you went to Marquette. The more you remember the Al era or the Buzz era or the Crean Final Four team, the more you are likely to be tough on what you believe the grade should be.

In my mind, here is the objectives for the team

A+ --      National Championship
A   --      Final Four
A-/B+ -- Elite 8
B   --      Second weekend of the NCAA
B-  --     Win one NCAA game
C   --     Make the NCAA
C-  --     Make the NIT
D   --     No tournament
F    --     Losing record

This is why I am harsh on the grades. We should expect some performance in the NCAA as a minimum, with the highest possible grade being 1977. We've won, albeit a long time ago, and that shows we theoretically can.

We just have to do it again!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Any grading system based on success in a one and done style tourney is only going to lead to disappointment. I'll be sure to Leo Tony Bennett know that he had a C season