Comment About Winter Games And What Is A "Sport"

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If the color commentator gets more excited than Gus Jihnson on red bull during a finish, then it's not a sport.

[Tugg Speedman]

As to the confusion by some of the announcers or participants.  The same thing happens in all sports.  I seem to recall a certain possession where there may have been a shot clock violation, but may have hit the rim, but they blew the whistle apparently before anyone had possession so they awarded the ball to the team that certainly shouldn't have gotten it...all this because they made a judgement call and made a mistake.

Johnson and Rafferty are not watching a NBE game and the clocks hits to 0:00 and they are not sure if one team won or lost by 25.  That is what happens with a lot of these "judgment sports."

I watched the Men's Free Style skiing last night and unless someone made an obvious error like falling, they (the competitors and "expert" announcers) did not know if that run was 7th place, 1st place or somewhere in-between.  They all looked lost until the "judges" told what place it was.

Again, I'm not saying they are not athletes or athletic, they obviously are.  But their sport is structured in such a way that no one knows who won until a committee of judges says who won.

I think this subjectivity runs counter the pure and objective measures of sports and I question if the current structure makes it a sport.

Restructure Men's Free Style with per-determined jumps and the fastest down wins would make it more of a sport.

[wadesworld]

Johnson and Rafferty are not watching a NBE game and the clocks hits to 0:00 and they are not sure if one team won or lost by 25.  That is what happens with a lot of these "judgment sports."

I watched the Men's Free Style skiing last night and unless someone made an obvious error like falling, they (the competitors and "expert" announcers) did not know if that run was 7th place, 1st place or somewhere in-between.  They all looked lost until the "judges" told what place it was.

Again, I'm not saying they are not athletes or athletic, they obviously are.  But their sport is structured in such a way that no one knows who won until a committee of judges says who won.

I think this subjectivity runs counter the pure and objective measures of sports and I question if the current structure makes it a sport.

Restructure Men's Free Style with per-determined jumps and the fastest down wins would make it more of a sport.

How many sprints leave the competitors and commentators unsure of who won and then in shock when the results go up on the scoreboard?  Same with swimming.  The relay that Michael Phelps won by touching under rather the surface level on his last half stroke?  Was Phelps already sure he had won before the results were shown on the scoreboard?  Did he act as though he was not 1 bit surprised?  No.  And these are "timed" events, which some people here have used to determine whether something is a sport or not (guess baseball is not a sport).  Then again, you don't play defense in a sprint so I guess it's not a sport.

[MerrittsMustache]

How many sprints leave the competitors and commentators unsure of who won and then in shock when the results go up on the scoreboard?  Same with swimming.  The relay that Michael Phelps won by touching under rather the surface level on his last half stroke?  Was Phelps already sure he had won before the results were shown on the scoreboard?  Did he act as though he was not 1 bit surprised?  No.  And these are "timed" events, which some people here have used to determine whether something is a sport or not (guess baseball is not a sport).  Then again, you don't play defense in a sprint so I guess it's not a sport.

Apples to oranges. There's nothing subjective about looking at the replay of a close finish to see who crossed the line first or in waiting for the automated scoreboard to show who touched the sensor first.

[frozena pizza]

I'm not sure that the amount of third party subjectivity involved determines what is a sport.  If it did, chess would clearly be a sport and gymnastics would not, even though one involves no athletic skill and another is all athleticism.

But there is a good point here which is that allowing contests to be determined by neutral observers such as judges or officials obscures the athletic component.  This is what is refreshing about racing sports and other "simple" games.  As much as I love basketball, baseball and football, too many good games come down to arbitrary officiating decisions and in that way are no different than figure skating or snowboarding.  Even golf has some bizarre scoring decisions, like when Dustin Johnson had to take a penalty on the 72nd hole of the PGA Championship for grounding his club in what he had no idea was considered a bunker.

[Pakuni]

I was watching a clip on snowboarding half pipe practice today and saw several competitors complaining about conditions... that's what happens when Russia takes your pot away, you complain about a dangerous "sport" being too dangerous.

Your evidence that snowboarders compete while high is that they're not high?
Got it.

Here's a story about NFL players complaining about the field conditions at Heinz Field.
Clearly they're all high when they play elsewhere. That's the only reason anyone complaints about a dangerous "sport" being too dangerous.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81c45dfb/printable/poor-playing-conditions-at-heinz-field-under-nfl-scrutiny

[CTWarrior]

Agree 100% with the opening post.  It is not a sport if a judge has to tell you who won.  Figure skaters, half-pipers, etc are all tremendous athletes, but they are not competing in a sport.  By the way, for all of those who say that I say that because I don't understand the scoring rules, in judged sports, even the individual judges very often pick different winners.  Which means that if you picked different, equally qualified judges, you would often get different winners.  So how is that a sport?

I remember when Leonard beat Hagler, AP had something like 100 judges watch and judge the fight and more than 70% of them said Hagelr won.  But 2 of the 3 guys who were responsible picked Leonard.  Two tremendous athletes in a fantastic contest of skill and bravery, but not sure its a sport, because you don't really know objectively who actually won.  It's really just a matter of opinion.

I've had this conversation with friends and my brothers many times over the years.

[MerrittsMustache]

Agree 100% with the opening post.  It is not a sport if a judge has to tell you who won.  Figure skaters, half-pipers, etc are all tremendous athletes, but they are not competing in a sport.  By the way, for all of those who say that I say that because I don't understand the scoring rules, in judged sports, even the individual judges very often pick different winners.  Which means that if you picked different, equally qualified judges, you would often get different winners.  So how is that a sport?

I remember when Leonard beat Hagler, AP had something like 100 judges watch and judge the fight and more than 70% of them said Hagelr won.  But 2 of the 3 guys who were responsible picked Leonard.  Two tremendous athletes in a fantastic contest of skill and bravery, but not sure its a sport, because you don't really know objectively who actually won.  It's really just a matter of opinion.

I've had this conversation with friends and my brothers many times over the years.

Boxing is a bit of a gray area because a match CAN be won without judges. I can't think of any other sports/events/activities/games/exhibitions that are similar, though I'm probably just overlooking them.

[GooooMarquette]

Speaking of events with judges, what's with dog shows?

If someone gets to judge which is the best poodle, shouldn't it be another poodle?

[CTWarrior]

Boxing is a bit of a gray area because a match CAN be won without judges. I can't think of any other sports/events/activities/games/exhibitions that are similar, though I'm probably just overlooking them.

Right.  Boxing is a sport if there is a 10 count or they fight until one of the guys gives up. 

[forgetful]

Definition of a sport:

"An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment".

"Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."

They are all sports.  If you want to break it down further based on the type of scoring system, by all means define some new terms, but they are by the vary definition sports.

[muwarrior69]

Well the Bowling championships are here in New Jersey this week. The person who knocks down the most pins wins. QED, a sport.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I remember when Leonard beat Hagler, AP had something like 100 judges watch and judge the fight and more than 70% of them said Hagelr won.  But 2 of the 3 guys who were responsible picked Leonard. 

Well pro boxing does have a crazy rep perhaps second only to pro wrestling(sorry bagpipes) perhaps Leonard's team ponied up more $$$ to the judges

Marvin won the national amateur title in ’73, and he didn’t want to wait three years to try to win a gold medal. He wanted to turn pro right away because money was on his mind. He turned pro in ’73 and fought somebody up in Brockton [Mass.] for 40 bucks. In 1977, after Leonard come out of the Olympics, he turned pro on ABC Wide World of Sports on a Saturday afternoon for $40,000.

from one of the judges of that fight

I don’t believe it was that hard to score. I had it 115-113 for Leonard. For some reason I was just locked in that night. After the fight I told Lou Filippo, who had it 115-113 for Hagler, “I can’t find a problem with your score.” Lou was the type who preferred harder punches. Well, they might have been harder, but they just weren’t enough — in my opinion, anyway. Lou said he didn’t have a problem with my score either. As for Jo Jo Guerra’s card, I believe he had it 118-110 for Leonard — that’s the way he seen it, and I respect him as a judge. I don’t find fault in anybody’s score. Where I was sitting, I didn’t see that, obviously. But believe me, there’s been fights where I looked at my score and then I watched it on TV, and then I wanted to change my score a little bit. It’s a possibility that you don’t see the same thing in these rounds where one punch or two punches make a difference. If the referee blocks you at a key moment, that can change your view of the round. This one, I’ve re-watched it several times, but never changed my score. I was locked in, and what I seen that night, that’s pretty much what I see each time I watch it.

[wadesworld]

Apples to oranges. There's nothing subjective about looking at the replay of a close finish to see who crossed the line first or in waiting for the automated scoreboard to show who touched the sensor first.

This is true.  I guess I was just trying to point out that because the athletes really don't know who won immediately following the completion of the competition and there are people who are shocked when the results are announced does not make it not a sport.

[Galway Eagle]

Well pro boxing does have a crazy rep perhaps second only to pro wrestling(sorry bagpipes) perhaps Leonard's team ponied up more $$$ to the judges

from one of the judges of that fight

Won't deny there's a crazy rep, though fights were much more fixed in the old days.  Outside of Bradley/Pacquiao have there been many truly upsetting results recently?  Not half as many because Compubox is always watching which now provides evidence to appeal a decision.  In the old days that was against the rules. 

I'm fine with y'all saying it's not a sport, but compared to wrestling I'll argue this as much as chicos argues that we should all love Tom Crean. 

[Benny B]

You're kidding, right?

Of course not... because if you tried to smuggle pot into Russia all they would do is take it away.

[CTWarrior]

Won't deny there's a crazy rep, though fights were much more fixed in the old days.  Outside of Bradley/Pacquiao have there been many truly upsetting results recently?  Not half as many because Compubox is always watching which now provides evidence to appeal a decision.  In the old days that was against the rules. 

I'm fine with y'all saying it's not a sport, but compared to wrestling I'll argue this as much as chicos argues that we should all love Tom Crean. 

The Olympics before the Berlin Wall came down had comical boxing judging.  When a Communist fought a Capitalist, unless there was a KO the action in the ring was irrelevant to determining the winner.  It was entirely based on the composition of the judging panel.

[Galway Eagle]

The Olympics before the Berlin Wall came down had comical boxing judging.  When a Communist fought a Capitalist, unless there was a KO the action in the ring was irrelevant to determining the winner.  It was entirely based on the composition of the judging panel.

Wasn't born till 91 so I have no way to know.  I mean I could watch the youtube videos but the majority of those boxers weren't anything extremely special after the olympics so I doubt they're on there anyways. 

[Archies Bat]

Wasn't born till 91 so I have no way to know.  I mean I could watch the youtube videos but the majority of those boxers weren't anything extremely special after the olympics so I doubt they're on there anyways. 

The Eastern judges were bad, but nothing compared to the 88 Seoul games where Roy Jones just destroyed his South Korean opponent in the gold medal bout but lost the decision.

[Stringer Bellenson]

Floyd Mayweather got screwed pretty bad in the 96 Olympics.  The ref raised Floyd's arm in anticipation of him winning, but the judges ruled otherwise.  It was at the very least incompetence, but there were claims of corruption too because the judges were afraid to rule against his opponent because the head of the refs and judges for the Olympic boxing was a fellow countryman of Mayweather's opponent (they were Bulgarian).

[Galway Eagle]

The Eastern judges were bad, but nothing compared to the 88 Seoul games where Roy Jones just destroyed his South Korean opponent in the gold medal bout but lost the decision.

Seen that fight a million times, even Park Si-Hun admitted that he lost the fight later.  Definitely one of the bigger amateur robberies in boxing. Though I'd say that Roy did just fine in boxing without the gold medal.  Don't know why Jones was fighting that light though, he wouldn't have been robbed if he fought at a bit higher of a class.  Also this fight lead to a different scoring system. 

Floyd Mayweather got screwed pretty bad in the 96 Olympics.  The ref raised Floyd's arm in anticipation of him winning, but the judges ruled otherwise.  It was at the very least incompetence, but there were claims of corruption too because the judges were afraid to rule against his opponent because the head of the refs and judges for the Olympic boxing was a fellow countryman of Mayweather's opponent (they were Bulgarian).

Also one of the biggest robberies.  I remember watching that with my Grandpa and him explaining what was going on and being upset but not entirely sure why.  

[keefe]

Weightlifting is not a sport it's an athletic competition. 

Best example of splitting a short red curly female one

[mr.MUskie]

I'm sure it's happened several times over the long history of the two sports, but when's the last time you saw a basketball or football player high during a game?

I was watching a clip on snowboarding half pipe practice today and saw several competitors complaining about conditions... that's what happens when Russia takes your pot away, you complain about a dangerous "sport" being too dangerous.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10375220/brendan-ayanbadejo-says-players-smoked-marijuana-super-bowl

[Benny B]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10375220/brendan-ayanbadejo-says-players-smoked-marijuana-super-bowl

That must have been the strongest weed ever for them to have smoked it days before yet still been high during the game.

[brandx]

That must have been the strongest weed ever for them to have smoked it days before yet still been high during the game.

Hey it's not like that crap we smoked back in my day.

We had to smoke a lot of weed to turn Japanese like the emoticon.