49 free throw attempts

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Ah yes! Now you’ve enlightened me!

Cooley, the 10,000 IQ coach, made the adjustment no one saw coming. He told his players to stop not playing defense and get between their man and the basket! So genius of Cooley to pull out the concept of defense in just the last 5 minutes of regulation. Wow.

Your posts remind of the Skip Bayless clip where he keeps saying the Mavs just “wanted it more” in 2011. You have extremely low technical basketball knowledge, sadly.

I mean, you have come up with nothing concrete that somehow shows you have some sort of superior basketball knowledge. 

I just have a feeling you THINK you understand basketball...but you really don't.  My suggestion is you learn more and report back to me.  Or continue to be wrong. Either way, I'm good.

[brewcity77]

What numbers are you referring to?

The PT thread touches on it. We had a historically bad whistle last night. An unprecedented whistle for a team that lived in the paint the entire game. Hopkins had the first 20/20 game in history without being called for a foul.

It isn't opinion that last night was a historical outlier in terms of the whistle. It's a statistical fact. Though my opinion would be that had the refs treated Kam Jones the same way they treated Devin Carter, the game never would've got to overtime.

[5DollarPitcher]

I mean, you have come up with nothing concrete that somehow shows you have some sort of superior basketball knowledge. 

Factually the free throw disparity in this game was 49-19. That is beyond the realm of normalcy.

If you watched the game (I can’t help you watch the game) it was clear and obvious that the refs fell for the home court trap and Providence was rewarded accordingly.

[mugrad_89]

The PT thread touches on it. We had a historically bad whistle last night. An unprecedented whistle for a team that lived in the paint the entire game. Hopkins had the first 20/20 game in history without being called for a foul.

It isn't opinion that last night was a historical outlier in terms of the whistle. It's a statistical fact. Though my opinion would be that had the refs treated Kam Jones the same way they treated Devin Carter, the game never would've got to overtime.

Last year, I could buy the idea that Marquette was on the short end of the free throw disparity given their reliance on shooting threes.  However, that was not the case last nite.  Marquette was getting to the paint just as much as Providence; however, only one team was rewarded for it by the officials.

[Uncle Rico]

Factually the free throw disparity in this game was 49-19. That is beyond the realm of normalcy.

If you watched the game (I can’t help you watch the game) it was clear and obvious that the refs fell for the home court trap and Providence was rewarded accordingly.

The refs are professionals

[5DollarPitcher]

The refs are professionals

And professionals can be bad at their job sometimes?

[brewcity77]

If this was 2018 and we had Markus, Rowsey, and Hauser taking 50/75 shots at the arc, I still wouldn't expect that disparity (because Rowsey would've done The Thing twice) but it would be explicable. Last night, with how this team actually played, where shots were taken, the physicality Providence played with, and where our scoring came from, there's no real way to rationalize this as anything other than the massive statistical outlier it was.

The game was not officiated the same on both ends. That's not really a disputable point.

[Elonsmusk]

The PT thread touches on it. We had a historically bad whistle last night. An unprecedented whistle for a team that lived in the paint the entire game. Hopkins had the first 20/20 game in history without being called for a foul.

It isn't opinion that last night was a historical outlier in terms of the whistle. It's a statistical fact. Though my opinion would be that had the refs treated Kam Jones the same way they treated Devin Carter, the game never would've got to overtime.

You're right on target and the PT analysis was quite illuminating.  I laughed at the possession where Kam got into the lane and was bodied and basically pushed to the ground and had to do his best Curly Neal dribble from his knees move to retain possession.  Meanwhile, Devin Carter got to the line on phantom contact multiple times.  It was an absolute joke.  Broker should be sending the PT stats to the Big East office and demanding some accountability.

[mugrad_89]

The refs are professionals

And?  🙄

[rocky_warrior]

When you get 62 points in the paint, you shouldn't be out shot 49-19 at the line. That was a joke. We lived inside and didn't get rewarded for that. Biggest FT disparity in more than 12 years. Biggest foul disparity as well. Top-10 FTR for Providence under Cooley. That game was a massive statistical outlier because there was a disparity in how PC was handled and how we were handled. The numbers back that up.

I didn't catch the game live last night, so watched it after reading all the kvetching about fouls.  Almost universally fouls were called when someone with the ball was driving.  Body fouls were not typically called, but if you reached in, lowered you hands, or didn't stay vertical, the foul was called.  Marquette lowered their hands, reached in, and didn't stay vertical while defending much more than Providence did.  Hence the disparity.  They should have adjusted and got their body in the way more.

[5DollarPitcher]

I didn't catch the game live last night, so watched it after reading all the kvetching about fouls.  Almost universally fouls were called when someone with the ball was driving.  Body fouls were not typically called, but if you reached in, lowered you hands, or didn't stay vertical, the foul was called.  Marquette lowered their hands, reached in, and didn't stay vertical while defending much more than Providence did.  Hence the disparity.  They should have adjusted and got their body in the way more.

Remember this was a double overtime game. The question is not did Marquette foul more than Providence. We all agree on that.

The question is was the fouls disparity as wide as it was called?

[rocky_warrior]

The question is was the fouls disparity as wide as it was called?

"Actual" fouls?  Not likely.  Fouls from reaching in, lowering their arms, or not staying vertical?  Yes.  It was simple to see what they were calling, and Marquette kept doing it.

[5DollarPitcher]

"Actual" fouls?  Not likely.  Fouls from reaching in, lowering their arms, or not staying vertical?  Yes.  It was simple to see what they were calling, and Marquette kept doing it.

So you agree the refs called a poor game that inherently disadvantaged Marquette.

[rocky_warrior]

So you agree the refs called a poor game that inherently disadvantaged Marquette.

The refs weren't great, but Marquette took themselves out of the game by continuing to foul the same way all game, when Providence did not foul that way as often.

I'm just saying, objectively, Marquette didn't adjust to the refs - which is something that should happen in every game.  See what refs are and aren't calling - and do those things or don't. 

Refs never call / catch all the fouls, but *usually* a crew is  consistent in how a particular game is called.  Cooley recognized this, and informed them when they "missed' calls they had been making.  Smart guy.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Factually the free throw disparity in this game was 49-19. That is beyond the realm of normalcy.

If you watched the game (I can’t help you watch the game) it was clear and obvious that the refs fell for the home court trap and Providence was rewarded accordingly.

You gotta do better than this. Just stating stats does not indicate anything.

"Actual" fouls?  Not likely.  Fouls from reaching in, lowering their arms, or not staying vertical?  Yes.  It was simple to see what they were calling, and Marquette kept doing it.

Yep.

[Uncle Rico]

And?  🙄

They called a fine game

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The PT thread touches on it. We had a historically bad whistle last night. An unprecedented whistle for a team that lived in the paint the entire game. Hopkins had the first 20/20 game in history without being called for a foul.

It isn't opinion that last night was a historical outlier in terms of the whistle. It's a statistical fact. Though my opinion would be that had the refs treated Kam Jones the same way they treated Devin Carter, the game never would've got to overtime.

As I posted earlier.  Just saying its an outlier, without any indication of causation, doesn't mean much.

This is the NBA but...

https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/ubk9t0/free_throw_myths_points_in_the_paint_and_drives/

"Most notable is that points in the paint is a weak indicator of free throw attempts. Just looking at a box score and seeing who scores more in the paint doesn't really tell you which side should have more free throws. Also, driving has essentially no correlation with free throw attempts. Noting which team was driving more doesn't tell you much."

[5DollarPitcher]

The refs weren't great, but Marquette took themselves out of the game by continuing to foul the same way all game, when Providence did not foul that way as often.

I'm just saying, objectively, Marquette didn't adjust to the refs - which is something that should happen in every game.  Se what refs are and aren't calling - and do those things or don't. 

Refs never call / catch all the fouls, but *usually* a crew is  consistent in how a particular game is called.  Cooley recognized this, and informed them when they "missed' calls they had been making.  Smart guy.

Sounds like “refs were trash but we should’ve won anyway”.

Fair enough argument but doesn’t discount the fact that the refs were trash. Statistically they were bad. It’s hard enough to win on the road in this conference.

[rocky_warrior]

Sounds like “refs were trash but we should’ve won anyway”.

Fair enough argument but doesn’t discount the fact that the refs were trash. Statistically they were bad. It’s hard enough to win on the road in this conference.

That's not what I'm saying.  That's what you think - and that's ok (and a little misguided). 

[5DollarPitcher]

You gotta do better than this. Just stating stats does not indicate anything.

Fouls in basketball are, on their face, subjective.

There is nothing “concrete” I can show you that will get you to understand that the game was called inconsistently in favor of Providence other than the game film.

Do you understand this?

[5DollarPitcher]

That's not what I'm saying.  That's what you think - and that's ok (and a little misguided).

Ok how about this “refs were trash and Marquette didn’t properly adjust to their trash”

[MUfan12]

"Actual" fouls?  Not likely.  Fouls from reaching in, lowering their arms, or not staying vertical?  Yes.  It was simple to see what they were calling, and Marquette kept doing it.

When you're allowed to continually bury a shoulder into the defenders chest their arms are not going to stay vertical.

Regardless, I can't wait for the rematch. A repeat of last season wouldn't surprise me.

[brewcity77]

If we were looking at a 40-30 FT disparity, I might agree. But unprecedentedly historic disparities considering the way the game was played stand out.

I'm not going Lisa Joplin, but the game was not called the same way on both ends. Attack Kam was in effect and wasn't rewarded while wild Devin Carter was rewarded. And zero fouls on Hopkins was ridiculous.

[79Warrior]

If we were looking at a 40-30 FT disparity, I might agree. But unprecedentedly historic disparities considering the way the game was played stand out.

I'm not going Lisa Joplin, but the game was not called the same way on both ends. Attack Kam was in effect and wasn't rewarded while wild Devin Carter was rewarded. And zero fouls on Hopkins was ridiculous.

For sure. Unfortunately, the team had their opportunities in spite of the foul situation. Just did not get it done. Shaka needs to school the guys on blocking out.

[CountryRoads]

If we were looking at a 40-30 FT disparity, I might agree. But unprecedentedly historic disparities considering the way the game was played stand out.

I'm not going Lisa Joplin, but the game was not called the same way on both ends. Attack Kam was in effect and wasn't rewarded while wild Devin Carter was rewarded. And zero fouls on Hopkins was ridiculous.

Completely agree on the Devin Carter fouls. Not sure why the refs were rewarding those completely out of control drives. Both fouls to start OT were maddening.

I thought Hopkins earned a lot of his free throws and our guys got frustrated with his physicality and aggressiveness.

Weird game though. It’s not like these are refs from a different conference or something. Those guys have been doing our games for years so not sure what the deal was last night.