The Bare cupboard

[#UnleashSean]

If we could use this excuse for one second, please.


For 7 years I've heard the excuse of "bare cupboard" in response to wojo being bad.

Why is this nonexistent for Shaka? He has 3 returning players. 2 freshman, one who got minutes, and Greg Elliot (who, eventhough every scooper loves him, has been injury prone his entire career)

Shaka has a fully new team, mostly of underclassmen learning a completely new system. Why is everyone downtrodden about this team? crap their 2-0, and they didn't lose to belmont or Omaha Nebraska. This should already but positive thoughts into your minds .

[TallTitan34]

Why is everyone downtrodden about this team?

I think the majority understand what’s up and it’s only a handful of posters that are downtrodden.

[BallBoy]

I think it has to do with the position the coaches come from. Wojo was left with a bare cupboard and he was coming from Duke as an assistant so no talent was going to follow him. He had to make due with his hand and find some fillers through the Transfer market which is different than today.

Shaka was a known entity and pulled a lot of interest from recruits he was recruiting with his previous employer so he was able to clean out some of the team and add quickly to get back to a team with a lot of raw talent but likely with a similar record as Wojo’s first year.

I think most people don’t have high expectations for this team this year and it has to do with the youth and make up of the team.

[5DollarPitcher]

I’m full steam ahead on the Shaka Express - I don’t want the excuse. Not that I’ll crucify him if this season were to slip away, but let’s not resign ourselves to that after Game 2 and 2-0….

We can have an excuse making session when we actually start to disappoint - just don’t let it drag on to Year 7 like the wet blanket that used to sit in Shaka’s chair.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think the difference is that Shaka was left with an entire roster that theoretically was more talented than what Wojo was left with in his first year, it's just they all transferred or went pro. Personally, I don't hold that against Shaka, some do. Shaka also had access to instant transfers whereas Wojo did not. I also think the "downtrodden" scoopers are a significant minority.

[Newsdreams]

I think the difference is that Shaka was left with an entire roster that theoretically was more talented than what Wojo was left with in his first year, it's just they all transferred or went pro. Personally, I don't hold that against Shaka, some do. Shaka also had access to instant transfers whereas Wojo did not. I also think the "downtrodden" scoopers are a significant minority.

This and maybe mistaking "downtrodden" with realistic expectations.

[fjm]

I think the difference is that Shaka was left with an entire roster that theoretically was more talented than what Wojo was left with in his first year, it's just they all transferred or went pro. Personally, I don't hold that against Shaka, some do. Shaka also had access to instant transfers whereas Wojo did not. I also think the "downtrodden" scoopers are a significant minority.

Bingo. Been saying it the whole time I love Shaka. Rooting for him!

But the cupboard wasn’t bare.

He had DJ, Garcia, Lewis, Cain etc when he arrived.

Is it his fault he couldn’t keep them? Maybe? Maybe not? Maybe they just didn’t fit his system or didn’t want to put up with their egos.

But the cupboard wasn’t bare. They weren’t a good team last year. But he had a guy who is playing in the Gleague and a guy playing for UNC when he arrived. (Again the guy in the Gleague was pushed out if he didn’t already want to leave) and Garcia was gonna leave.

Not Shaka’s fault. But they were part of the team when he arrived.

[fjm]

This and maybe mistaking "downtrodden" with realistic expectations.

True! I expect 15 wins. I’m not downtrodden. I just realize that this is a very big transition year.

[panda]

Bingo. Been saying it the whole time I love Shaka. Rooting for him!

But the cupboard wasn’t bare.

He had DJ, Garcia, Lewis, Cain etc when he arrived.

Is it his fault he couldn’t keep them? Maybe? Maybe not? Maybe they just didn’t fit his system or didn’t want to put up with their egos.

But the cupboard wasn’t bare. They weren’t a good team last year. But he had a guy who is playing in the Gleague and a guy playing for UNC when he arrived. (Again the guy in the Gleague was pushed out if he didn’t already want to leave) and Garcia was gonna leave.

Not Shaka’s fault. But they were part of the team when he arrived.

Take quake ! Take it easy Bayless.

[Herman Cain]

I am in the positive camp. I like what I see so far. Each game is a building block and the outlook is good.

The rest of the Big East this year, excluding Nova and UConn, is beatable .

[fjm]

Take quake ! Take it easy Bayless.

I don’t get it.
And I don’t have time to read these. Too busy watching Texas crush Gonzaga on DVR.

[panda]

I don’t get it.
And I don’t have time to read these. Too busy watching Texas crush Gonzaga on DVR.

No surprise you don’t understand…

[BallBoy]

I’m full steam ahead on the Shaka Express - I don’t want the excuse. Not that I’ll crucify him if this season were to slip away, but let’s not resign ourselves to that after Game 2 and 2-0….

We can have an excuse making session when we actually start to disappoint - just don’t let it drag on to Year 7 like the wet blanket that used to sit in Shaka’s chair.

Excuses are after the fact as to why you didn’t achieve something.

I expect MU to be in the 15 win range for a wide variety of reasons. If Shaka exceeds that he overcame the challenges. They are no longer excuses because they didn’t stop him from achieving the goal.

If he doesn’t there could be a wide variety of reasons some of which will be excuses.

I am not going to hold Shaka to his first season just like I didn’t with Wojo. Not everyone walks into a Buzz situation.

I do believe if MU didn’t get a coach like Shaka after firing Wojo, we would be in a much worse situation.

[MU82]

Cupboards when Marquette coaches took over:

Al - two promising items but otherwise bare

Hank - bursting with goodies

Rick - reasonably well-stocked

Dukiet - some stockage

KO - a couple high-quality items but little else

Deane - well-stocked

Crean - a few good items but restocking needed

Buzz - bursting with goodies

Wojo - a few promising items but mostly misfit parts

Shaka - nearly bare, as 2 high-quality items couldn't be kept in stock

(FWIW, I do not blame Shaka one iota for Carton and Garcia no longer being on team.)

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think the difference is that Shaka was left with an entire roster that theoretically was more talented than what Wojo was left with in his first year, it's just they all transferred or went pro. Personally, I don't hold that against Shaka, some do. Shaka also had access to instant transfers whereas Wojo did not. I also think the "downtrodden" scoopers are a significant minority.

We have been through this. Wojo was left with two future NBA players, 8 Top 100 recruits, and signed two transfers in Carlino and Wally. He lost all but Sandy of Buzz’s recruits and brought none of his own in Year 1. No Pole Shanking.

In short order, Mayo, Dawson, Burton were all gone wasting their scholarship slots to be filled by the Mache brothers recruited from Noon Ball for practice reasons. I think most Scoopers could have seen those coming. In mid order, Taylor, Cohen, Wally and Noskowiak were gone with little value added for their slots. Worse, Wojo wasn’t recruiting fully for those open slots to be. Then there was the Levin, Carter, and Cheatham (serviceable up till his Maui vacation) spots wasted were there was no to little roster value gained. And then the holes continued to follow him (see future roster issues).

Compare that to Shaka were he brought along his Texas recruits, spotted transfers to fill in, rerecruited Wojo’s recruits, and Shaka and Stirred the old roster, including moving on from perhaps future NBA players who didn’t fit. That part we agree on is a better long-term way to rebuild a program.

However, the idea that Wojo was left with a bare cupboard was true only in it was a self-inflicted wound. It exposed Wojo’s inexperience early on, and it followed him through his future roster churn issues, made worse by his Duke hubris.

[tower912]

The cupboard isn't bare, just young.    Shaka brought a lot of his recruits from Texas with him and got some building blocks from the transfer portal.      There is a lot of talent and potential on this team.   I just don't think there is enough experience to do any real damage this season.    I could be wrong.    A whole lot of things could fall into place.    But it will be like drawing two to an inside straight.   

[Tha Hound]

Not sure how anyone can lay blame on Shaka for not keeping upperclassmen wojo players, especially Dawson. Does no one remember he immediately left Milwaukee after the season and went radio silent? He was never coming back, period.

The rest? DJ would be nice to have of course but apparently there were off court issues there according to this forum. Jamal and Koby? I’d much rather rebuild thank you very much.

I’m no Shaka apologist and the first few games have been rough, but that’s just how it goes when your program has been dogcrap for 8 straight years. You don’t just immediately turn it around.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We have been through this. Wojo was left with two future NBA players, 8 Top 100 recruits, and signed two transfers in Carlino and Wally. He lost all but Sandy of Buzz’s recruits and brought none of his own in Year 1. No Pole Shanking.

In short order, Mayo, Dawson, Burton were all gone wasting their scholarship slots to be filled by the Mache brothers recruited from Noon Ball for practice reasons. I think most Scoopers could have seen those coming. In mid order, Taylor, Cohen, Wally and Noskowiak were gone with little value added for their slots. Worse, Wojo wasn’t recruiting fully for those open slots to be. Then there was the Levin, Carter, and Cheatham (serviceable up till his Maui vacation) spots wasted were there was no to little roster value gained. And then the holes continued to follow him (see future roster issues).

Compare that to Shaka were he brought along his Texas recruits, spotted transfers to fill in, rerecruited Wojo’s recruits, and Shaka and Stirred the old roster, including moving on from perhaps future NBA players who didn’t fit. That part we agree on is a better long-term way to rebuild a program.

However, the idea that Wojo was left with a bare cupboard was true only in it was a self-inflicted wound. It exposed Wojo’s inexperience early on, and it followed him through his future roster churn issues, made worse by his Duke hubris.

I don't care what players were ranked in high school and Juan Anderson was years away from making a jump to NBA quality, Buzz couldn't get anything out of him for three years. What Wojo actually inherited was a team that missed the NIT and then lost 6 out of 7 if its top minutes guys and the 7 in that crew was Derrick Wilson. The definition of a bare cupboard. He then did a crappy job restocking it,  on that we agree

[MU82]

The cupboard isn't bare, just young.    Shaka brought a lot of his recruits from Texas with him and got some building blocks from the transfer portal.      There is a lot of talent and potential on this team.   I just don't think there is enough experience to do any real damage this season.    I could be wrong.    A whole lot of things could fall into place.    But it will be like drawing two to an inside straight.

I define a cupboard's fullness by what the previous coach left in it ... so it was quite bare when Shaka took over, especially if one supports the theory that Garcia and DJ were gone regardless.

Wojo's cupboard had some decent items in it, but those items were young and/or misfits and/or had one foot out the door.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I don't care what players were ranked in high school. What Wojo actually inherited was a team that missed the NIT and then lost 6 out of 7 if its top minutes guys and the 7 in that crew was Derrick Wilson. The definition of a bare cupboard. He then did a crappy job restocking it,  on that we agree

You skimmed over the two NBA players but we’ll never agree on this. I consider this one of the great Scoop myths in my mind.

[forgetful]

We have been through this. Wojo was left with two future NBA players, 8 Top 100 recruits, and signed two transfers in Carlino and Wally. He lost all but Sandy of Buzz’s recruits and brought none of his own in Year 1. No Pole Shanking.

In short order, Mayo, Dawson, Burton were all gone wasting their scholarship slots to be filled by the Mache brothers recruited from Noon Ball for practice reasons. I think most Scoopers could have seen those coming. In mid order, Taylor, Cohen, Wally and Noskowiak were gone with little value added for their slots. Worse, Wojo wasn’t recruiting fully for those open slots to be. Then there was the Levin, Carter, and Cheatham (serviceable up till his Maui vacation) spots wasted were there was no to little roster value gained. And then the holes continued to follow him (see future roster issues).

Compare that to Shaka were he brought along his Texas recruits, spotted transfers to fill in, rerecruited Wojo’s recruits, and Shaka and Stirred the old roster, including moving on from perhaps future NBA players who didn’t fit. That part we agree on is a better long-term way to rebuild a program.

However, the idea that Wojo was left with a bare cupboard was true only in it was a self-inflicted wound. It exposed Wojo’s inexperience early on, and it followed him through his future roster churn issues, made worse by his Duke hubris.

This has been litigated on here before, but your presentation of it is inaccurate.

Wojo took over a team that was 17-15 the previous year, and that lost 64% of its scoring (due to graduations and Mayo being an idiot). So took over a bad team that lost 64% of what made them not awful....the team he had left was awful (29.3% of scoring from returning players).

The two NBA players were Burton, who he retained but was no where near a good player yet. He went to Iowa State and was mediocre at best his first year. He went undrafted, and got to the NBA by his own hard work. Same with Juan Anderson, he got to the NBA based on years of work post college.

Regarding Shaka, he had the possibility of retaining a reasonable core. Yes, we were bad last year, but we were young with talent (Carton/Lewis/Garcia). All three of whom have more current NBA potential than Burton or Anderson had at the time.

Shaka is the coach whose cupboard was self-inflicted. We will see how that plays out. He decided to build the cupboard he felt best fit his system. I'm good with that, but it was far from bare, just not the right ingredients for his recipe.

Wojo was left with a bare cupboard. The best coach in the world wasn't winning with that roster. It can be argued that maybe he should have rebuilt from scratch (longer rebuild) after year 1, instead of trying to simply fill holes and win right away. But hindsight is 2020. Shaka learned a similar lesson as Wojo at UT on team building.

[Uncle Rico]

Shaka Smart is molding the roster to fit his system.  Personally, I thought all the potential returning players could have fit the system.  At the same time, outside Dawson, I wish them all well at their new homes and trust Shaka on roster construction.

I don’t think this team is built to win this year.  The cupboard was bare in the sense Shaka freshened it up to his liking.  The hope for me is the growth of the underclassmen.  What Morsell, Kuath and Greg do is all a bonus

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You skimmed over the two NBA players but we’ll never agree on this. I consider this one of the great Scoop myths in my mind.

I edited and added before you posted.  I didn't address Burton because he was a unique situation with his mother passing.

So if Wojos cupboard was full, then Buzz must be a terrible coach right? Because he had all of those players except Luke and Duane and he couldn't even make the NIT and he put all the players he gave Wojo 12 minutes or less a game except  Derrick. If talent wasn't the issue, coaching must have been.

The man was fired for good reason,  you don't have to make things up to pile on

[MU82]

Calling the Juan Anderson that Wojo inherited an "NBA player" is akin to saying Shaka is a failure for not being able to keep Garcia and DJ.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Your cupboard no matta if you are not a very good coach. 

It was a not very good excuse back then and with transfers it’s not a very good excuse now.