positive/negative surprises in terms of player development up to now

[downtown85]

Before the season, if you had asked be what the weakness of this team would be it would not have been outside shooting and free throws.   I would have said rebounding and points in the paint, being a guard oriented attack and defense. 

That being said here are my positive/negative surprises for the players:

Returning players:

Positive:  Ooze. He contnues to develop and has been more than adequate both offensively, defensively and most importantly at the free throw line

negative:  Fitz.  Perhaps my expectations were too high but I expected him to help fill the void left by SN in terms of outside shooting.  Fitz has been pretty good at times on defense and rebounding though.

New Players:

Positive:  Cuby.  From what i have seen he has done pretty well as a freshman coming in and providing much needed energy off the bench.  He is still rough around the edges but he is only a freshman. 

negative: Lazar.  I thought he was supposed to be good at outside shooting.  He has yet to find his stroke.  He is 20 years old, how long do we have to wait.  On the other hand, he does seem to be comfortable around the basket on offense and defense and rebounding.  He is a bit undersized for the PF spot though. 

Those are my thoughts. I would like to hear yours. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Calling Hayward a negative is ridiculous. He's the best of our freshman. He's a "scorer" not a shooter. And if you didn't have concerns about our shooting based on what we lost, you must not have been paying attention last year. James, McNeal and Matthews all proved that they aren't shooters and Fitz has shown for two years that he's hesitant to shoot. That said, he's sure as hell not a negative. His versatility makes him one of our most valuable players. I will agree with you that, with his ability, he should be scoring more.

[tonyreeder]

Easy PRN. The guy's trying to get a conversation started and you tell him he wasn't paying attention last year.  Maybe surprises/disappointments would have been better than postive/negative.  I think Hayward has been a bit of a disappointment based on all the talk of him being an outside shooting threat.  However, his best basketball is ahead of him this year.  I also expected more from Fitzgerald from an outside shooting standpoint.  My disappointment is the lack of intensity this team shows.  They don't begin games well and they seem to think they can turn it on and off.  The first half of the Sav. State game was about as sad a half of basketball I've seen from an MU team in a long time.  Maybe they can turn it on for the Big East season but the lapses of concentration and intensity really bother  me.  They are not nearly as good as they think they are.

[downtown85]

All I am saying is that I expected Hayward to start in place of Novak given his high scout services ranking, maturity and reputation for an outside shot.  Before prep school, I understand his game was pretty much one dimensional, i.e., he was a deadly 3 pt shooter.  He developed other aspects of his game while at ND prep over two years.  In my opinion, he is the best of the newcomers (including Blackledge) but I had higher expectations.  I thought he would be lighting it up from outside then when his man comes out to guard him, he would blow by him to the hoop.  Sort of Steve Novak with more dimensions.  I don't expect him to put up SN numbers from 3pt land but 30 to 35% would be nice, not 16.7%. 

[Ready2Fly]

PuertoRicanNightmare -

I agree with you 100% about Hayward.  He's not an outside shooter - but so what?  He has demonstrated a knack for putting the ball in the hoop when he's around the basket, and he's extremely active on the offensive glass.  I think he should be starting alongside James, McNeal, Matthews and Barro.

But I hate it when people talk about Fitzgerald's "versatitlity."  This is not a personal attack on you, because a lot of people say it.  I just don't see it.  In my mind, versatility means that you do a lot of things well.  The only thing he does above average is shoot the trey, and he never seems to hit them when we really need them (ND State 0-4, Idaho St. 1-5, Wisconsin 0-1, Valpo 0-1).  He shoots them well in blowouts (E. Michigan 2-5, Texas Tech 1-2, Delaware St. 3-5, UMBC 2-3, Oakland 1-2, Morgan St. 3-4), but who cares?  He's a matador on defense, he's shooting 61% from the line, and his assist to turnover ratio is worse than McNeal's for Christ sake.  Where does the impression that he's versatile come from?  In my opinion, Hayward and Blackledge should get the bulk of his minutes in addition to the time they're currently seeing.

[MU71]

How can you not be disappointed with an aspect of a guy' game who was touted as a 3 point shooter who is shooting 16% from 3 land.  I'm not disappointed with his overall game but am ceratinly disappointed with his 3 point shot.  That being said, many freshmen outside shoters have a hard time for a year or 2 and then become lights out junior and senior years.  Lazar does look like more of a scorer than a shooter though.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I am not disappointed in Hayward because he's a much better inside player than I thought. I believe his three point shooting percentage in h.s. was in the low 40's, which would be a nice number in college, but is not exactly "lights out" on the high school level.

I believe MU fans have been spoiled by the shooting of Diener and Novak the last few years. I admit Lazar's percentage from downtown is way too low, but I still believe, just by watching him shoot, that he's a much better option from out there than James or McNeal.

In response to Ready2Fly, I believe Fitzgerald is one of the more talented players on our team, particularly offensively. He's a decent passer, shooter and ball-handler...and he's a solid 6'9". Any team would love to have a player of his ability. For whatever reason, I believe he suffers from a lack of confidence. At two intrasquad scrimmages I have watched, he's been one of the three best players on the floor and that was with Novak and Diener around. Someone from MU confirmed that when they told ESPN Magazine that they expected Fitz -- who hadn't yet played for MU -- to pick up the scoring load when Diener graduated. Those were pretty strong words, but they reflected what they had seen of Fitz in practice.

For whatever reason, it hasn't translated to consistent game performances. I believe one of the reasons is that his role is undefined. Is he expected to be a shooter? A backup point guard? A rebounder? A power forward? A defender? I do not blame our coaches for this. Perhaps it's a case of Fitz being capable of doing so many things that he has not chosen to master one or two. Anyway, that's what I think of him. In the rush to annoint DJ, Jerel and Wesley, he may have gotten lost in the shuffle a little bit.

[MUfan12]

Nightmare- Agree with you 100% about Hayward. His contributions offensively, particularly on the offensive glass have been impressive, especially when you think about the time he missed. Defensively he is improving every game.

On the outside shooting- A shooter has to shoot to get out of a slump. He's gonna have to get more than one clean look from out there to find the stroke during games. Early it was a byproduct of missing that practice time, it was clear that he was not used to the speed of the D1 game and was rushing his shots, hence all the long misses. He's rattled a couple out in the past few games, and playing in the post has made it tough for him to get consistent chances from three.

And to be fair regarding Fitzgerald, since the UW game he has not been as shy shooting the ball, and has actually taken some contested shots. MU's shooting woes from deep in my opinion stem from two things. First, the big three taking way too many threes. Second, the same three driving with their heads down and missing guys like Fitz and Cubillan who are wide open. It happens at least 5 times every game where Dominic and Jerel in particular go to the hoop in traffic while there's a wide open shooter in the corner.

[MUCHI814]

Im gonna have to agree with downtown and say that Hayward has been a disappointment.  I know everyone here is fans, but seriously you can't be that biased/nieve to the point where there is an excuse for everything and certain things become positives.

[MUfan12]

Downtown also said he expected Hayward to start right away for Novak. If that was the expectation even after the NCAA issues, some of the expectations were completely unrealistic. Someone can be a great HS shooter and it won't translate right away because the speed of the game is that much faster. Guys will have a lot more time to shoot in HS than in college. That's not an excuse it's a fact. And when a freshman has a month of time that could be used to adjust to that speed taken away, they are put at a disadvantage.

It's pretty clear to anyone that has seen this team play more than once this year that Hayward is coming along nicely. The only aspect that is missing is the outside shooting, and that will come. To call him a disappointment just shows how unrealistic some of these expectations were.

[downtown85]

MUfan, point taken on the NCAA issue.  I tempered my expectations when that happened.  On the other hand, you can hardly call ND prep's team last year a high school team.  All 5 starters are high major players or soon to be high major players.  LH was coming off the bench as the 6th man!  He had 4 years of HS and 2 years at ND prep.  To me he should easily be starting as a freshman.  We had 2 or 3 freshman starters last year for most of the season.  After an adjustment period due to the NCAA flap (which by now is over) he should have been capable of starting and should have grabbed the starting spot, IMO.  However, TC still isn't ready to start him for some perhaps because he isn't living up to what is expected of a starter.  Perhaps my expectations were unrealistic for him but he was touted as the phenom recruit for this year.   

[herboturbo]

First off, I'm pretty sure Lazar didn't spend 4 years in high school then prep it for two.  And now is the time he should be making up the difference from the NCAA imposed sit-down and we should start seeing the results with the conference season now.  The period over break would be his makeup time for all the practice he missed earlier. 

And to think that he would be starting out of the gate is unrealistic based on the past history of Crean and this program.  There has only been one freshman starter out of the gate since Crean has been here, Odartey Blankson.  Everyone else has had veterans start the year out in front of them till much later in the season. 

Frankly the only thing you can be disappointed about so far with Heyward is that his shot hasn't been falling from the outside.  Eventually it will.  All you have to do is watch him shoot in warmups to see it go down all the time, and when he shoots during the games the stroke always looks good which means eventually it will go down.  And for the rest of his game he has been more than surprising.  We knew he was a guy who could fill it up but his play around the basket and nose for the ball has been very impressive.  I actually have to question whether or not the people saying they've been disappointed are ones that have actually seen him play more than the couple times they've been on television. 

[dwaderoy2004]

And to think that he would be starting out of the gate is unrealistic based on the past history of Crean and this program.  There has only been one freshman starter out of the gate since Crean has been here, Odartey Blankson.  Everyone else has had veterans start the year out in front of them till much later in the season. 

ummmmm, DJ, Mcneal and Matthews?

[downtown85]

First off, I'm pretty sure Lazar didn't spend 4 years in high school then prep it for two. 

Look up LH's birthdate.  He is about the right age for me being correct. 

[Chili]

Lazar had 3 years of HS and 2 of prep.

Following his junior season at Traditional, Hayward transferred to Notre Dame to boost both his academic and athletic potential. It's been a good move thus far, and the now 6-5, 205 pound Hayward shows little signs of slowing down.

http://hsnewyork.scout.com/2/388301.html

[downtown85]

O.k., I stand corrected.  I will take the authority of your source over my back of the envelope math. 

[herboturbo]

[/quote]

ummmmm, DJ, Mcneal and Matthews?
[/quote]


touche.


For some reason I completely forgot about them.