Thoughts on Maymon

[detroitwarrior]

Murf ... have you attended Madison Memorial games and actually WITNESSED Tim Maymon running up and down the sidelines?

I have attended at least 25 of Jeronne's games the past three years. No question, Tim Maymon can be loud.

However, he does not "run up and down the sidelines yelling instructions at his kid."

Jeronne Maymon will be an outstanding player at Marquette and his father will be his No. 1 fan. Seriously doubt Tim Maymon will make Buzz Williams' life difficult. 

Murffieus never having seen a player play live has never affected his mispaced ability to render judgment on a player which is often wrong and full of contradictions (particularly when his evaluation is questioned).

[jmayer1]

I have some swamp land to sell you.

Humphries and his old man tried to play Coach K. K would have none of it. Humphries and father became Monson's problem.

sure bud, i guess you know more about the inter-workings of the duke program that any other recruiting expert or any article out there about the matter

murff, i heard from a guy---a guy's who opinion i highly trust, that you don't know what you are talking about half the time

also, last time i checked there is a HUGE difference between high school ball and college ball, so you personally have no clue what effect, if any, a parent can have on a high division one baskeball team

[dennycrane]

sure bud, i guess you know more about the inter-workings of the duke program that any other recruiting expert or any article out there about the matter

Humphries was signed. Duke was under no obligation to release him. Humphries and has father wanted certain assurances and demands from Coach K. K signed his release and sent them on their way to gopherland.

[dennycrane]

denny crane you is a fool.   the poster did put some context to it when he stated ":
2. Best player from the state of WI he has personally ever seen
      - caveat: not sure how many that entails but Mathews, Nankivil, Butch
        Novak, Diener at a minimum"

my goodness how much more context would you like.  Biggest problem is most of you guys are losers and have ever even seen the inner working of AAu ball or parents etc.  you would never begin to believe the BS Crean Oneill or any of the other coaches around the country deal with s far as parent, the phone calls and other BS.  A parent wanting the best for their kid and being vocsl from the stands hardly seems abnormal to me who have seen far more than that.  buzz holds the keys you buffoon..

Jerrone will be fine...he is wonderfully talented and knows nothing will be given too him,he is commited as his  A and B this summer prove.   Worst cse scenario he does not work out,  crean had 2-3 of those almost every year and some are ready to build a statue next to Al of the guy. 

Translation please?

[jmayer1]

Humphries was signed. Duke was under no obligation to release him. Humphries and has father wanted certain assurances and demands from Coach K. K signed his release and sent them on their way to gopherland.

agree to disagree i guess, you can believe what you want, i'll believe what i want

fact is, i still think buzz shouldn't have a problem with maymon's dad

[RawdogDX]

1. You don't have to care. It was a statement of fact that Maymon was disappointed not to have been recruited by Wisconsin.

2. That was my opinion. If someone wants to argue that Maymon is the states all time greatest player they are welcome to try and make that argument.

3. Because others have turned it around does not make it a positive that Jeronne did not care his first 2+ years in high school. He put his back against the wall. Hopefully he now cares. Maymon served a suspension when was caught cheating on a test.

4. On this point you are simply wrong.

I think, the fact that you throw your opinion out there without even bothering to name a single player that you believe is better, makes you sound very arrogant.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Denny,

You seem to have some pretty strong feelings regarding Maymon and his father.

How do you feel Maymon will do at MU?

Do you think his father will be a big enough distraction that it becomes a problem?

Will Maymon complete all 4 years at MU?

Who would you compare Maymon's game to?

[dennycrane]

Denny,

You seem to have some pretty strong feelings regarding Maymon and his father.

How do you feel Maymon will do at MU?

Do you think his father will be a big enough distraction that it becomes a problem?

Will Maymon complete all 4 years at MU?

Who would you compare Maymon's game to?

I am being honest. I have felt the same before Marquette started recruiting Maymon as after he has committed. Not all posters can say the same. If Crean had remained as coach and not recruited Maymon many would not have had a problem with Crean's decision. 

It is never popular to agree with murf. I have seen Memorial play dozens of times. His father does make a spectacle of himself. I can not think of another parent who has been more consistent in that regard over the years. I have also seen Tim Maymon interject himself between his sons and coach during the summer. It may not be the popular position but it is the truth.

I am not going to make any predictions about Jeronne at MU. He needs to get in to school first. Indications are that he has done well in summer. Conversely Tim Maymon has made some very confusing statements on his sons academics in the past. Fair to say it will be close either way.

We also don't know very much about Buzz Williams. Too many variables and what ifs to make many predictions.

On the court Jeronne was the best player in the state last year. I never saw any indication of problems while he was playing. All the distractions have been off the court.

[Murffieus]

Kris Humphries is a very good example of how a father can hurt a son's career and at the same time disrupt a team-----as I recall his father was publicly very critical of the Minnesota HC and in fact was the reaso why Kris opted for the NBA prematurely. Kris has loads of talent----but he's underachived since HS.

When I played at MU, I respectively told my dad to please keep a low profile around the coaches. players, and other parents, which he did. When I coached at MUHS I had a situation one year where unwarranted parental involvement almost cost the team a very successful season----and these parents weren't as ostensibly involved anywhere near the extent that I understand Mr Mayman to be.

I'd still like this questioned answered------why weren't BO and TC hot after Jerrone afte that outstanding State Tournament he had ?

[HarryBalczak]

I'd still like this questioned answered------why weren't BO and TC hot after Jerrone afte that outstanding State Tournament he had ?

It's no secret Bo Ryan doesn't really go after players who may have "backgrounds" and Jeronne's academic situation and Tim Maymon are probably lumped into that "backgrounds" category. 

As far as Tom Crean, it could have simply been that he favored Jamil Wilson, but it could have been for the same reasons that Bo Ryan didn't pursue Jeronne.

It depends on the coach.  As someone pointed out to me, Buzz Williams attended and assisted at the Junior College level and there are many players at that level who come in with academic and personal issue's and Buzz and his staff might be willing to take chances on players that some coaches wouldn't.

As I've stated on another board, I had better than expected reports on Jeronne Maymon as a person from a Memorial parent who is brutally honest with this kind of thing.  Has he had academic issue's?  Yes.  Was he linked in to an altercation(s) at school?  Yes.  The big question is if Jeronne is willing to work hard academically to make it into Marquette and the early returns are that he is. 

I back up Mark Miller in that I've never seen Tim Maymon run up and down the court.  I've probably seen Jeronne play in 7 or so Memorial games the last 3 years and it's physically impossible to do this at the Memorial gym because of the tightness of the sidelines and I haven't see him do this in the 2 other gyms I've watched Memorial play in.  Yes, Tim Maymon is vocal, can get out of control at times and is very emotional. 

[Murffieus]

Grades didn't stop TC from going after D Wade or that guy last year who ended up at Duquesne. I don't think grades will be a problem with Jerrone-----seems like the type of kid who puts his mind to something that he'll get it done----but an emotional father who is looking out for the best for his son does bother me.

As it is, parents usually think their kid is better than what he is----the more emotional they are the worse things can get----they can't understand why he doesn't play more-----why he doesn't get the ball more-----it's always someone elses fault (e.g. ----a teammate or the coach)----these are all things that can get out of hand.In the end it can really hurt the chemistry of the team as sides are drawn.

BTW Henry Balczak-----grades usually don't stop coaches from going after a **** player ----e.g D Wade and the kid last year who went to Duquesne----unless it's really a bad case. In Jerrone's case he seems very serious about his grades because he knows what's on the line----e.g. summer school when he could have been on the AAU circuit. To protect themselves from making an academic mistake they can over recruit, which Buzz appears to be doing for 2009.

Bottomline----grades aren't the main problem why he wasn't recruited by UW and TC.

[muball]

It is funny reading this thread, we have a highly respected person Mr. Miller and an individual who has never seen a player play have opposite fews. Well no reason to discount Mr. Miller as he has no side to take. When it comes to Muff he is a known distractor and poster with a definite attitude or grudge against MU when one reviews his posts.  I would say his actions speak for themselve and he definitely will continue to be a bigger distraction then Mr. Maymon ever could be as he has years and years of practice even though he does not have the confidence and courage to step forward and contribute in a positive manner as a former MU player.

[Murffieus]

I don't call myself a "detractor"----I would say that I "critique" MU BB quite a bit a lot of times as the "devils advocate". But that should be refreshing to other posters as every one else almost always points out the positives----including Mark.

My posts very often show other points of view-----balance the board----and majority of the time those other points of view turn out to be correct.

BTW----you'll notice I haven't been on Buzz's back----give him a chance to prove he can coach!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am being honest. I have felt the same before Marquette started recruiting Maymon as after he has committed. Not all posters can say the same. If Crean had remained as coach and not recruited Maymon many would not have had a problem with Crean's decision. 

It is never popular to agree with murf. I have seen Memorial play dozens of times. His father does make a spectacle of himself. I can not think of another parent who has been more consistent in that regard over the years. I have also seen Tim Maymon interject himself between his sons and coach during the summer. It may not be the popular position but it is the truth.

I am not going to make any predictions about Jeronne at MU. He needs to get in to school first. Indications are that he has done well in summer. Conversely Tim Maymon has made some very confusing statements on his sons academics in the past. Fair to say it will be close either way.

We also don't know very much about Buzz Williams. Too many variables and what ifs to make many predictions.

On the court Jeronne was the best player in the state last year. I never saw any indication of problems while he was playing. All the distractions have been off the court.

Fair enough, and to be honest, I think I feel the same way... but maybe I'm a little more of a "glass half-full" kinda guy.

The Tim Maymon stories make me a little nervous, however 2 things keep playing over and over in my head:

#1 We heard the same thing about Wesley Matthews mom. Now, I'm not saying it's the exact same scenario, but the internet was full of all of these "stories" about incidents with his mom. MU (as far as I know) has never had a problem with Wesley's mother. Again, these situations are not identical, but there are some interesting parallels, and sometimes the internet can make a 1 time incident (Tim Maymon talking with a coach during a game) seem like a pattern of behavior.

#2 Buzz seems to be a pretty bright guy and while signing Jerrone is certainly not without risks, I'm guessing Buzz and Tim have had a heart to heart and come to some sort of understanding. Now, that "understanding" or "agreement" can certainly change or become strained if something happens... but again, Buzz seems like a pretty bright guy and has been in coaching for his whole life. I'm sure he's dealt with similar situations, so hopefully he can handle this one. Also, Maymon is obviously a talent... but he's not OJ Mayo, and I think/hope his family knows that. If Jerrone really has dreams of the NBA, he's going to need a few years of solid coaching and hard work to be ready (not many guys ranked in the 50's seem to jump to the NBA in 1 or 2 years).

So, just like with Buzz, I'm cautiously optimistic about Maymon. A father yelling and screaming in a highschool gym and be disruptive. A father yelling and screaming at the BC will just fit in with the rest of us. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

My posts very often show other points of view-----balance the board----and majority of the time those other points of view turn out to be correct.

I don't have a problem with this, but to be honest sometimes you work a little too hard to provide "balance" as you say.

Junior Cardougan is a perfect example.

The experts are watching him play, and they say he's playing well.

Then you get behind your keyboard and start telling everybody why Junior won't be good in the Big East.

Doesn't seem to make much sense 


You seem obsessed with providing a critical viewpoint. I mean, I don't think anybody is saying Junior is going to be the next Jason Kidd... but I do think it's ok to get a little excited about a kid who seems to be rising up the charts and playing his best basketball.

[wadesworld]

Grades didn't stop TC from going after D Wade or that guy last year who ended up at Duquesne. I don't think grades will be a problem with Jerrone-----seems like the type of kid who puts his mind to something that he'll get it done----but an emotional father who is looking out for the best for his son does bother me.

As it is, parents usually think their kid is better than what he is----the more emotional they are the worse things can get----they can't understand why he doesn't play more-----why he doesn't get the ball more-----it's always someone elses fault (e.g. ----a teammate or the coach)----these are all things that can get out of hand.In the end it can really hurt the chemistry of the team as sides are drawn.

BTW Henry Balczak-----grades usually don't stop coaches from going after a **** player ----e.g D Wade and the kid last year who went to Duquesne----unless it's really a bad case. In Jerrone's case he seems very serious about his grades because he knows what's on the line----e.g. summer school when he could have been on the AAU circuit. To protect themselves from making an academic mistake they can over recruit, which Buzz appears to be doing for 2009.

Bottomline----grades aren't the main problem why he wasn't recruited by UW and TC.

Murff you and everyone on this board knows why Crean was able to go after a player like Wade back then when he would not be able to now.  There was a whole thread about the partial qualifier rule that was allowed in C-USA but is not allowed in the BE.  So when Crean knew Wade probably wouldn't qualify going into his freshman year, he was able to go after him knowing that when he didn't he would still be on Marquette's campus for his freshman year, he'd just have to wait a year to play in games.  Don't bring Dwyane Wade up as an example of Crean going after someone who had grade issues, because it's a completely different situation and you know it.

Now whoever this kid is who went to Duquesne that we recruited is, if it's true that he didn't come because of grades then that's a fair point, but isn't Duquesne a Divison 1 school?  Does their conference have a partial qualifier rule?  Did he play in games last year?

Overrecruiting is also a good point that you can do that in case the kid doesn't qualify.  But I would be willing to bet that Crean was more worried about his grades than his father.  For someone who gets crucified for having so much power on this board, you'd hope Crean would be able to take care of an overinvolved parent.  He didn't see that Maymon was committed to his grades because he was gone by the time Maymon decided to not play in AAU to get his grades up.

Don't bring Wade into this...different scenario completely.

[muwarrior87]

that would be Damien Saunders who is now at Duquesne.  We over recruited last year and he had not only academic issues but also legal issues.  He was the last person recruited, and if i remember correctly, was only being recruited because of the DJ to the nba possibility that was brought up.

[Murffieus]

I don't have a problem with this, but to be honest sometimes you work a little too hard to provide "balance" as you say.

Junior Cardougan is a perfect example.

The experts are watching him play, and they say he's playing well.

Then you get behind your keyboard and start telling everybody why Junior won't be good in the Big East.

Doesn't seem to make much sense 


You seem obsessed with providing a critical viewpoint. I mean, I don't think anybody is saying Junior is going to be the next Jason Kidd... but I do think it's ok to get a little excited about a kid who seems to be rising up the charts and playing his best basketball.

Again, here's what I said about Junior based on a "feel good " video i watched.

Not quick or athletic----sees the floor very well on transition and passes very well off transition-----doesn't use his left hand and doesn't go left on the dribble penetration------will set up his penetration on starting left with one dribble then cross dribbling over to his right for the penetration------doesn't appear to be a pure perimeter shooter-----better off the pullup.

Now this is what you're going to see on Dec 28th. He may be doing fine now----but odds are that he has limited upside because of his lack of quickness and athleticism.

[Murffieus]

that would be Damien Saunders who is now at Duquesne.  We over recruited last year and he had not only academic issues but also legal issues.  He was the last person recruited, and if i remember correctly, was only being recruited because of the DJ to the nba possibility that was brought up.

But the point is that TC went after him even though he had grade issues (later in the process he couldn't get into MU).

This bring to mind another point-----TC left MU in a huff (only way to describe it)----did MU increase it's enrollment standards? Saunders was a qualifier, but couldn't get into MU------D Wade was a non qualifier and he got in. If so could explain why Buzz is still recruiting for 2009 (he envisions a recruit potentially not gaining entrance to MU?).

[dennycrane]

Fair enough, and to be honest, I think I feel the same way... but maybe I'm a little more of a "glass half-full" kinda guy.

The Tim Maymon stories make me a little nervous, however 2 things keep playing over and over in my head:

#1 We heard the same thing about Wesley Matthews mom. Now, I'm not saying it's the exact same scenario, but the internet was full of all of these "stories" about incidents with his mom. MU (as far as I know) has never had a problem with Wesley's mother. Again, these situations are not identical, but there are some interesting parallels, and sometimes the internet can make a 1 time incident (Tim Maymon talking with a coach during a game) seem like a pattern of behavior.

#2 Buzz seems to be a pretty bright guy and while signing Jerrone is certainly not without risks, I'm guessing Buzz and Tim have had a heart to heart and come to some sort of understanding. Now, that "understanding" or "agreement" can certainly change or become strained if something happens... but again, Buzz seems like a pretty bright guy and has been in coaching for his whole life. I'm sure he's dealt with similar situations, so hopefully he can handle this one. Also, Maymon is obviously a talent... but he's not OJ Mayo, and I think/hope his family knows that. If Jerrone really has dreams of the NBA, he's going to need a few years of solid coaching and hard work to be ready (not many guys ranked in the 50's seem to jump to the NBA in 1 or 2 years).

So, just like with Buzz, I'm cautiously optimistic about Maymon. A father yelling and screaming in a highschool gym and be disruptive. A father yelling and screaming at the BC will just fit in with the rest of us. 

#1  The Mathews situation is more dissimilar than similar to Maymon. There is no need to break it down much further than that. The Pam Moore-UW situation was overplayed on the internet. As far as I can tell there was uncomfortableness and possibly personality conflicts on both sides.

It should be noted that there has been very little to complain about with Mathews career. He has seen significant playing time from day one. Marquette has had success during Wesley's time in Milwaukee.

At Wisconsin Wesley may have had to sit a little longer. Would that have been a problem?

#2 Buzz will need to establish ground rules early on. Buzz does not have much of a track record. It would be speculation on my part as to how he will handle it.

If you listen to some of Tim Maymon's remarks it brings into question whether he is realistic about Jeronne's ability. Didn't he compare Jeronne to a combination of Beasley/Rose/Garnett? I would like to believe he was kidding. Tim has been very unrealistic about his older sons talent level also. Will this matter? It goes back to the original post in this thread. Tim Maymon's behavior does not do his son any favors.

[muball]

muff I beleive when Wade was allowed to attend MU they had partial qualifiers and now they dont. U make call yourself critical but how can a senior grown up? behave like that when talking about young kids prior to getting to college. You are definitely past your prime not meaning sports but in ability to articulate a fair assessment when it comes to others. Your dislike. disgust, or hatred to MU is obviuous and it is time for u to do something positive to the program or just SIGNOFF. Quit being a stupid ASS as it is very anoying to everyone.

[Murffieus]

muball----I ask a couple of legit questions and I'm a "stupid ass"-----also "Murf hates MU" and "is past his prime"-----all this because I don't write "feel good" posts like you seem to want to hear-----good grief man----get a grip----there's more than one side to a sitiuation-----just because you want to stick your head in the sand and "feel good" and call people childish names and make wild ass assertions about someone else' allegiances.

I saw my first MU BB game in 1944----my dad is in the MU HOF-----I am one of handful of MU BB players who owns a career double/double----captain of a team----MVP 1958-----was the Marquette "M" Club president for 3 years----longest presiding president ever-----and they wanted me to stay on. I live, eat, and drink MU BB.

You owe me an apology-----I've paid my dues to say what I want about MU BB within the rules of the board!

[muball]

So U say U paid your dues, what does that mean, give u the right to be negative on young kids as u have done with Travis etc. Even when Crean left his wife said she would be happy to be away from Muff on the internet and his comments regarding the program. Yes u went, played, and had some success at MU but that does not provide u the right to say what u say and then think your above everyone else and criticize young kids prior to entering college and their parents.  Look at the records and accomplishments that some of the kids have had within the last few years compared to accomplishments when u played. Your really may think your an expert etc but that is only in your mind. Hence your name

[Murffieus]

I've got news for Mrs. Crean-----there will be a new Murf (probably several Murfs)on the message boards at Indiana----TC will be held to a higher standard there than here. You guys look at being critical as non supportive----I look at it as being VERY supportive.

You criticize critiqing young players as though they are babes in swadeling cloths----they are 18-22 year old adults----old enought to vote----old enough to join the armed forces---- and they are in the public domain and part of a high profile business-----part of their education is to learn how to accept criticism----if they don't learn how now---then when?

As far as parents are concerned I'm just repeating from what i've heard from reliable sources.

You want to feel good about MU BB----well I feel good when we succeed.

As far as BB is concerned , I've forgotten more than you'll ever know!

[augoman]

Murf- please don't be intimidated by those 'who know not whereof they speak...,
I, for one, would stop reading the board altogether if it weren't for the balance of OPINIONS.  Many of us were accused of negativity for pointing out Crean's faults while others saw only strengths.  Now you aren't allowed an opinion on a player- forget the fact that you scouted and coached dozens while the detractors probably haven't.  Hang in there.