OT Bears/Pack Flex Scheduling

[MilTown]

For those who don't know, the game is switched to 7:15 pm on Sunday night. I don't really mind the switch as I don't have NYE plans, and I live here in Chicago and can take public trans to the game. Ringing in the new year at the post game tailgate doesn't sound too bad. But for others, this seems to be a major pain in the ass. The problems this creates are huge. Are people from Wisconsin supposed to drive home at 11 at night? Imagine trying to get a hotel room right now for this weekend. The last thing the city needs is more traffic coming downtown around 7 pm and more people on the roads at 11. Imagine all the people with NYE plans and Bears tickets. What about all the stadium workers who now have to scrap NYE plans. I think there will be a lot of angry people over this.

Is anyone else frustrated with the NFL schedules this year. I know I am. Thursday night games, and Saturday games that I don't get on my cable are the worst. Why can't we just have SunDAY NFL football and one monday night game? I don't even want the sunday night game.

[Nukem2]

Yep, this is a head scratcher.  The Packers playoff fate will probably be determined by 3:00 and thats a lonnngggg shot.  As far as a potential final Favre game goes, well who knows.  We've been through this for 3 years now ( I think he'll stay ).  Oh, do I feel sorry for those Bear fans whose New Year's Eve has been screwed up (ha, ha.... ).

[MilTown]

Remember, a lot of Packers fans come down for this game too. I just think that this game has a chance to be a real sleeper. Imagine if the Pack is eliminated from playoff contention, it's raining, and the Bears are playing second stringers the whole second half. Maybe people will tune in to hear Madden continually profess his man love for Brett Favre.

Remember, it's not only fans who are f'd by this. Think about the entire gameday staff and other workers indirectly affected by the game.

[Nukem2]

Yes, I do feel for the staff.  But, the Bear fans...nah.

[MarquetteFan94]

Agreed, for some this time change will pose a huge pain in the arse....however, living in the city and being a season ticket holder, this game will be a blast.  I don't feel too sorry for the Packer fans that have to try and find accomodations either...I'm sure they can find something in Gary 

A second straight sweep over the Packers then toasting in the New Year from the South Lot tailgate...

[Mayor McCheese]

yeah now only if the Bears could win a playoff game.... love watching the Bears hoot and holler about winning the worst division in the NFL.... talking about super bowl, to then get killed in the playoffs, reminds me of Cubs fans     .... about the start time, I don't care, I wasn't going to be able to see it anyways, I will be in the Bahamas sailing drunkenly around the caribbean!!!

About the second team playing, well, their backup QB is better than their starter, so thats not fair!

[CWSKeith]

love watching the Bears hoot and holler about winning the worst division in the NFL....

Heh.  And which teams are the reason that it's one of the worst divisions in football?  Yeah, must be that 13-2 team.

That's okay though...  Just one more game until the the Aaron Rodgers (haha, sorry, I'll try not to laugh) era begins.

[rocky_warrior]

I will be in the Bahamas sailing drunkenly around the caribbean!!!

Sounds fun, just remember to re-apply the sunscreen every time after you get into the water.  I foolishly thought every other time would be fine, but learned otherwise later that night  8)

[muhoosier260]

must be that 13-2 team

they're 13-2 because they get to wipe their ass with the packers, lions, and vikings 6 times a year. DUH!

[The Lens]

I love that the Pack's "rebuilding" years include a 7 or 8 win season...for the last 16 years the Bears have won 7 or less about 10 times.  It's cute that the Bears are making this little run, but if you want to season how a true organization is run, try and sneak on the Packers team bus Sunday night. 

[spartan3186]

I love that the Pack's "rebuilding" years include a 7 or 8 win season...for the last 16 years the Bears have won 7 or less about 10 times.  It's cute that the Bears are making this little run, but if you want to season how a true organization is run, try and sneak on the Packers team bus Sunday night. 

You are right the Bears are "making this little run," they really dont know how to run an organization. Yea... You do realize that these are two of the most storied franchises in league history correct? The Bears have won 9 League Championships yet they still dont know how to run an organization. You can not possibly knock one of the most storied franchises in the NFL, just like I can not knock the Packer's organization as a whole, an oranization that has won 12 league championships. On top of that this is not just a little run, this is built upon from last year. Last year the Bears were 11-5 with Kyle Orton, yes Kyle Orton as a QB. Jerry Angelo has built a solid foundation that is producing quality players through the draft. The Bears are having a spectacular season (say what you will about the weakness of the NFC North, these are NFL teams) which has given them 13 wins thus far. Take away the division and the Bears are still 8-2, yea the Bears are only 13-2 because of the weak division... theyve beat every team in the NFC.

[MilTown]

I wanted to comment on my disdain for the NFL flex scheduling and the NFL schedule in general, but I knew this post would end up as a Bears vs. Packers rant. Let me start this off by saying that I am a Bear fan. I think the Bears are a very fundamentally sound football team at all positions except QB. They have a 13-2 record in spite of the erratic QB play which is extremely surprising. It shows how good of a football team they are. We should probably be about 11-4 or maybe 10-5, which in the NFC is still at or near the top. In terms of the Packers, does anyone really think the Packers are going to make the playoffs? It's a huge long shot. Even if they do, are they going anywhere? I think it's nice that the Packers have turned their season around record wise, but you have to admit that they are still a very bad team. That game against Minnesota was the worst NFL game I have seen in recent memory. I love Farve and how he plays the game, but I just think it's time for him to hang it up.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Spartan -- I'm as big a Bears fan as anybody, but you cannot cite the Bears 9 league championships as evidence of a great organization. They haven't won one for 21 years. Before that it was a 22 year wait (1963) and prior to that, it was something like 1947. Of their 9 championships, exactly one came after the NFL/AFL merger.

That said, I don't care what you clowns say about the NFC this year, I predict the Bears will be in the Super Bowl. This is a quality team. If the Packers are such a great organization, how come they can't get any support for the great Brett Favre? And I hate to throw your argument against some of you, but the weak NFC North is the only reason GB has a chance to make the playoffs. You cannot talk about weak conferences benefitting the Bears and deny it has benefitted the Packers.

[MarquetteFan94]

yeah now only if the Bears could win a playoff game.... love watching the Bears hoot and holler about winning the worst division in the NFL.... talking about super bowl, to then get killed in the playoffs, reminds me of Cubs fans     .... about the start time, I don't care, I wasn't going to be able to see it anyways, I will be in the Bahamas sailing drunkenly around the caribbean!!!

About the second team playing, well, their backup QB is better than their starter, so thats not fair!

Hilarious....why exactly do you think the Packers have ANY chance at the Playoffs this year...b/c they play in NFC Central!  You can only play the teams on your schedule and the Bears 11-0 vs. the NFC....hmmm, not bad.  I'd argue that the NFC West is just as poor as the Central...but that's another debate I suppose.

When exactly did the Cubs get killed in the playoffs?  When they lost in Game 7 of the NLCS?  Not sure Brewers fans have a lot "hoot and holler" about lately either....24 years is quite a playoff drought...

Here's to Favre playing another 4 years....

[IAmMarquette]

Based on tradition and history (e.g. 9 championships for the Bears, 12 for the Pack) you'd be hard-pressed to convince anyone that these are anything but two of the greatest franchises/organizations in American professional sports. I just wish the 'rivalry' between the two would be a little more competitive than it has been over the last 15 years or so. Favre is what, 20-8 against Chicago? while the Bears have pretty much dominated the last 2-3 years? Seems that it's always lopsided, rather than competitive, which is why many Packers fans regard the Vikings as the Pack's chief rival.

Anyway, if we're going to discuss whether or not these are 'great' organizations, we have to decide what that means. Overall championships/historical success? If so, then I think the Packers and Bears take the cake in professional football. If you want to look at recent success, then it's the Patriots. If you want consistent greatness, then, well, there's no such thing, because -- especially in the NFL -- EVERY franchise experiences its lean years.

I believe 'great' organizations are not measured simply by on-field performance, but by the way they are managed. Take the Packers, for example. One of the oldest franchises in professional football. Smallest market in professional sports. Only publicly(sp?)-owned franchise in professional sports. The best fanbase in the NFL, evidenced by the 60,000-name season ticket waiting list.

Of course, as a native of Green Bay, I may be a bit biased    That said, I'll be cheering for the 'Skins on Saturday, and regardless of that result, for the Pack to exact a measure of revenge on Sunday.

[MilTown]

Both teams are storied franchises in the NFL. Both teams have loyal fan bases and season ticket bases. Basically, they have entire states as a fan base. Unfortunately, tradition and history are worthless in today's NFL. You need strong ownership with deep pockets, good stadium deals, smart general managment, quality coaches, and most importantly, players. It took the Bears a while, but they finally figured out that Mike McCaskey is a complete moron and pushed him out. They also have a quality general manager with a plan that seems to be working. Finally, they brought in coaches who can coach, and some talented players. The Packers seem to have the infrastructure in place right now to start turning things around. Now all we need are the vikings and lions to get with the program so we can stop hearing about how much the NFC north sucks!

So who has a better chance of winning next week, Savanah State or the Packers?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I love that the Pack's "rebuilding" years include a 7 or 8 win season...for the last 16 years the Bears have won 7 or less about 10 times.  It's cute that the Bears are making this little run, but if you want to season how a true organization is run, try and sneak on the Packers team bus Sunday night. 

Didn't the Packers win 4 games last year?   

[IAmMarquette]

Now all we need are the vikings and lions to get with the program so we can stop hearing about how much the NFC north sucks!

Amen!

So who has a better chance of winning next week, Savanah State or the Packers?

The Pack, of course! I'm not predicting a win, but if the Bears think this is the same Packers team they embarassed in Week 1, they're in for a surprise. I'm predicting a low-scoring defensive battle, unless the Bears put Griese in, in which case I (regretfully) pick the Bears going away 

Anybody know the line on that game?

[DegenerateDish]

The Boston Celtics are also publicly owned.

[IAmMarquette]

The Boston Celtics are also publicly owned.

Did not know that. Thanks for the info. I knew there was a reason I always respected the Celtics...

[MilTown]

The public ownership aspect of the Packers is a bit of a farce. You have voting rights, but the shares do not pay dividends and they cannot appreciate. Also, the number any individual can own is limited so someone cannot come in and take control of the team. Basically, the stock entitles you to hang a certificate on your wall for all of your friends to see. Although in the end, it was a smart move as the "stockholders" from the sale in the 90's paid for the stadium renovation without the team having to issue PSL's.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The Boston Celtics are also publicly owned.

Did not know that. Thanks for the info. I knew there was a reason I always respected the Celtics...

The Celtics are NO LONGER publicly owned.  Their stock was traded on the NYSE but that has ended. 

Once Paul Gaston sold Celtics ownership to local investment group "Boston Basketball Partnership" (which includes local venture capitalist Wycliffe Groubeck  among its members), all individual owners of stock had to resell their shares back to the BBP, as per their agreement with the NBA once ownership of the team became finalized (as the Boston Herald described it at the time: "the C's sale to a group of deep-pocketed, longtime fans [was] atypical for other reasons as well. For starters, a publicly traded partnership owned the team. And many investors who bought partnership units as much to mount on their office walls as to make money were pleasantly surprised to find themselves collecting a cash premium from the sale. Before the deal was made public, Celtics units closed at $10.60 each. Grousbeck and his partners later said the 58,000 unit holders would get $27 in cash for each unit.")

You see, Gaston had the Celtics "name brand" go public back in the 80s, so that fans could feel as if they owned a part of the team, however small that part may actually be (of course, most people felt at the time that this was just an excuse for Paul to make more money off of the team's name recognition, but that's neither here nor there) ... If you're interested in seeing the actual certificate that was sent to you if you had bought stock in the team, you can find a picture at this web site :

http://www.scripophily.net/sports.html



You will note on that website that many teams have been "publicly owned" at times like the Cleveland Indians, New York Yankees, Celtics, etc, etc.

At the end of the day, no one really is.  It's a charming little story in Green Bay but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  These are the same people that stood ours in line to buy a piece of grass (and no, not that kind of grass).   

Here is the description of the Packers stock and benefits http://www.packers.com/history/fast_facts/stock_history/

[CWSKeith]

must be that 13-2 team

they're 13-2 because they get to wipe their ass with the packers, lions, and vikings 6 times a year. DUH!

No, they're 13-2 because they're the best team in the NFC.  Best in the NFL?  No, I doubt it, but I'm fairly confident the Bears could hang with most AFC teams on a neutral site (they lost by four at New England, one of the tougher places to play in the NFL.  Unlike GB who lost AT HOME by 35 -- a shutout, BTW -- to the Pats.).

As far as organizations go, it would be hard for me or any Bears fan to argue that they've been more successful as an 'organization'.  But -- going forward, for the foreseeable future -- I like where the Bears are at.  Their GM has done a superb job of building the team through the draft with just enough free agent signings (Miller, Tait, Moose, RMJr) sprinkled in to compliment the young players.  I think we're positioned as well as any other team out there.

[Mayor McCheese]

yeah now only if the Bears could win a playoff game.... love watching the Bears hoot and holler about winning the worst division in the NFL.... talking about super bowl, to then get killed in the playoffs, reminds me of Cubs fans     .... about the start time, I don't care, I wasn't going to be able to see it anyways, I will be in the Bahamas sailing drunkenly around the caribbean!!!

About the second team playing, well, their backup QB is better than their starter, so thats not fair!

Hilarious....why exactly do you think the Packers have ANY chance at the Playoffs this year...b/c they play in NFC Central!  You can only play the teams on your schedule and the Bears 11-0 vs. the NFC....hmmm, not bad.  I'd argue that the NFC West is just as poor as the Central...but that's another debate I suppose.

When exactly did the Cubs get killed in the playoffs?  When they lost in Game 7 of the NLCS?  Not sure Brewers fans have a lot "hoot and holler" about lately either....24 years is quite a playoff drought...

Here's to Favre playing another 4 years....

if you read, I never say that the Packers will make the playoffs, and I never say the Packers are a good team, the packers are terrible, really bad... and with teh Cubs, Im not talking about playoffs, because you guys have the 7th highest payroll in MLB and can't beat out the Pirates in record.  Sure the Brewers havent done much of anything, but atleast we don't expect to win the World Series, like Cubs fans do, and the Brewers don't overspend on mediocre players like the Cubs do.  The Cubs this year are moving up, getting rid of Dusty Baker, the worst manager in baseball, and signing Soriano, it will be interesting this year.  Oh and I am ready for the Cubs fans trying to explain why Baker was a good manager.


and not to be picky... however its been years since the Packers or Bears have played in the NFC Central.  They play in the NFC North, but its ok, because your a Bears fan, and as Troy Aikman stated "there the best fans in the world"

[MarquetteFan94]

yeah now only if the Bears could win a playoff game.... love watching the Bears hoot and holler about winning the worst division in the NFL.... talking about super bowl, to then get killed in the playoffs, reminds me of Cubs fans     .... about the start time, I don't care, I wasn't going to be able to see it anyways, I will be in the Bahamas sailing drunkenly around the caribbean!!!

About the second team playing, well, their backup QB is better than their starter, so thats not fair!

Hilarious....why exactly do you think the Packers have ANY chance at the Playoffs this year...b/c they play in NFC Central!  You can only play the teams on your schedule and the Bears 11-0 vs. the NFC....hmmm, not bad.  I'd argue that the NFC West is just as poor as the Central...but that's another debate I suppose.

When exactly did the Cubs get killed in the playoffs?  When they lost in Game 7 of the NLCS?  Not sure Brewers fans have a lot "hoot and holler" about lately either....24 years is quite a playoff drought...

Here's to Favre playing another 4 years....

if you read, I never say that the Packers will make the playoffs, and I never say the Packers are a good team, the packers are terrible, really bad... and with teh Cubs, Im not talking about playoffs, because you guys have the 7th highest payroll in MLB and can't beat out the Pirates in record.  Sure the Brewers havent done much of anything, but atleast we don't expect to win the World Series, like Cubs fans do, and the Brewers don't overspend on mediocre players like the Cubs do.  The Cubs this year are moving up, getting rid of Dusty Baker, the worst manager in baseball, and signing Soriano, it will be interesting this year.  Oh and I am ready for the Cubs fans trying to explain why Baker was a good manager.


and not to be picky... however its been years since the Packers or Bears have played in the NFC Central.  They play in the NFC North, but its ok, because your a Bears fan, and as Troy Aikman stated "there the best fans in the world"

I agree, the Packers are terrible.

I love the payroll argument in baseball....unless you're paying out of your own pocket (like Brewers fans) who cares what the teams payrolls are?  I think it's pretty clear that payroll rankings do not necessarily align with winning the World Series....the Cardinals with the 10th highest payroll pretty much proved that....again.  I'm not sure there are many sane Cubs fans that "expect" to win the World Series every year...clearly that hasn't worked out pretty well recently....expecting to contend every year, sure...win, I don't think so.  With the Cubs the payroll takes on an additional argument...if they don't spend it's..."The Cubs/Tribune just care about filling seats at Wrigley and not winning" OR it's "The Cubs/Tribune overspend on mediocre players"....it's a tired, circular debate.

While the Brewers certainly don't "overspend"  I can't imagine too many Brewers fans that wouldn't want to see some bigger, marquee players in Milwaukee....that actually stay in Milwaukee.  Suppan is a start, I guess...but I'm guessing there aren't many casual Brewers fans that'll rush to the ballpark to watch Koskie, Hardy, Weeks and Estrada take the field everyday.  With over $300M of the financing of Miller Park coming from an increased sales tax I would be pretty PO'd that the Brewers didn't field a competitive team rather than hoping they can stay in the Wild Card picture while trading their big names away at the trading deadline to dump payroll.

Any Cubs fan that defends Baker is pathetic.  With the pitching staff the Cubs had in '03 and '04 most managers could've won with that team...if everyone stayed healthy.

As far as the NFC Central thing goes....yes, apparently, I have been living under a rock...Is MU still in C-USA?