three point shooting

[bilsu]

With Fitz graduating, Christopherson transferring, and Culliban having surgury on both shoulders it does not appear that MU will have much of a three point shooting team. Given that, is the rule change moving the three point line back a benefit to MU? I would think it would hurt other teams more than Marquette. Hopefully MU will take less three point shots. What do you guys think? Does the the three point line moving back hurt or help this team?

[muball]

I really think MU will benefit next year and the line will have little effect on them, Fitz could shoot but wouldn't so that will not be a major impact. Cubie if he is not healthy would be a negative. Scott played so little and I dont know if he was BEast material. I will miss him and his attitude.  I think we will find the Butler and Fulce will have positive impact in their atheletic skills and if Trevor can come around we will have an atheletic big that can score.  Summary: we didnt have trey shooting last year and this year could be the same regardless of where the line is.

[Tulsa Warrior]

Marquette may benefit because of the spacing issues.  The extended three point line benefits not only a strong outside shooting team but a squad that is quick and can move the ball.

[bilsu]

move the ball was one thing Crean's team's did not do. hopefully, Buzz's teams will lean more to passing than dribbling.

[wadesworld]

Marquette may benefit because of the spacing issues.  The extended three point line benefits not only a strong outside shooting team but a squad that is quick and can move the ball.

Completely agree and would add that moving the 3 point line back won't give better shooters that much of an advantage...1 foot is not a big difference.  If a kid can stroke the trey ball from 19 feet, he can do it from 20.  It will open the floor up a bit more for Marquette next year, and with the way they shoot the three, that will be helpful.

[downtown85]

What about Lazar?  If I recall correctly, he turned out to be a pretty consistent 3pt shooter last year.  I think if he is used correctly he can stretch the defenses and get things to open up a bit.  Also, I seem to remember Jerel getting A LOT better at perimeter shooting toward the end of the season.  I am cautiously optimistic on our perimeter game. 

[Big Papi]

No impact whatsoever.  Our spacing was always good as our shooters were always extended past the 3 point line.  Sounds like Butler has a very good mid-range game which is huge.  If McNeal and Matthews can improve their mid-range shot and if Mbakwe, Burke and Hayward can give us anything down low we will be in better shape than last year.

[esotericmindguy]

Wait.  Am I missing something?  Did the 3 point line get moved back?

[mug644]

I don't get how moving the 3 point line back 1 ft. helps us. If we hit threes at a better clip, yes it would open up the floor because the defense would have to step up to guard it. But, seeing how we are not strong three point shooters, the line being in a different spot doesn't move the defense out. It's similar to the idea of packing in a zone; you don't bust the zone until you hit a few shots.

Now, if we do hit a few three pointers at the beginning of a game, well things will then open up and our quick guards can get into the lane.

Then what? Hopefully they can hit floaters or drop the ball off to Mbakwe, Burke or whoever can hold onto it and put it in.

[wadesworld]

I don't get how moving the 3 point line back 1 ft. helps us. If we hit threes at a better clip, yes it would open up the floor because the defense would have to step up to guard it. But, seeing how we are not strong three point shooters, the line being in a different spot doesn't move the defense out. It's similar to the idea of packing in a zone; you don't bust the zone until you hit a few shot.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree with that.  We were a poor 3 point shooting team, but if left wide open those guys can knock it down at a decent clip.  The defense will be forced to step out that extra foot to pressure the offense, because if they just decide that since we shot poorly at 3s last year we obviously can't make it from a foot further back and they lay of that extra foot, they're giving wide open 3 pointers.  Regardless of how well a team shot it, teams still have to pressure the ball when it's within 3 point shooting range, and with it back 1 foot further it will open up the floor slightly.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

I agree with Wadesworld partially, but if it's 'nic up top I'd let him shoot the three all day if I was defending him.  I think it will be more beneficial for Jerel, as his 3 point shooting seemed to improve last year.  Possibly Coobie if he returns to his previous form pre-shoulder injuries, which I think he will.

[Marquette Gyros]

Wait.  Am I missing something?  Did the 3 point line get moved back?

Yes.  It's now 20 feet, 9 inches from the bucket.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2859065

[Wareagle]

What about Lazar?  If I recall correctly, he turned out to be a pretty consistent 3pt shooter last year.  I think if he is used correctly he can stretch the defenses and get things to open up a bit.  Also, I seem to remember Jerel getting A LOT better at perimeter shooting toward the end of the season.  I am cautiously optimistic on our perimeter game. 

Jerel shot 35.7% from 3 in his last 10 games (15/42).  For the season he was 30.4%, so you're right on the money. 

[dsfire]

I agree with Wadesworld partially, but if it's 'nic up top I'd let him shoot the three all day if I was defending him.  I think it will be more beneficial for Jerel, as his 3 point shooting seemed to improve last year.  Possibly Coobie if he returns to his previous form pre-shoulder injuries, which I think he will.

DJ has never toed the line when shooting 3s (to put it mildly), so I suspect moving the line back won't have any effect on his perimeter game.  I think you're right about McNeal improving towards the end of last year (as Wareagle cited stats above), but I think moving the line back would push that % back down for him.  On the other hand, having more space would help his drives, so it may be a wash overall.

[The Man in Gold]

I think some times our lack of a 3 point shooting gets blown way out of proportion.  Obviously there were games when this team really struggled but overall MU was t-6th in the Big East.  Not exactly a bunch of slackers.

Anything that creates more spacing or stretches out a 2-3 zone will be a bonus.  (I apologise, but couldn't get the formatting on this chart right)

2007-08 3-Point Shooting
                   GP   3PM   3PA   PCT
1.   Notre Dame   31   262   639    41.0
2.   Georgetown   32   251   660    38.0
3.   Providence   31   237   631    37.6
4.   Connecticut   32   165   459    35.9
5.   DePaul     30      231      64      35.8
6.   West Virginia   34   248   702    35.3
   Marquette   33   231   654       35.3
8.   Villanova   32   226   660         34.2
9.   Louisville   32   241   704        34.2
10.   Pittsburgh   35   215   632      34.0
11.   Seton Hall   32   229   677      33.8
12.   Syracuse   32   173   513     33.7
13.   St. John's   30   157   472      33.3
14.   South Florida   31   166   503     33.0
15.   Cincinnati   31   199   614          32.4
16.   Rutgers        31   171   537       31.8

[Murffieus]

There will be more zones because of the arc moving back----also more pac 'em in man to man defenses as the trey will be a little harder to score.

Also the deeper arc will NOT hurt the pure shooters as much as the marginal shooters who will lose percentage.

[bilsu]

It has been a good discussion so far. But part of my question was does it help or hurt MU more than other teams. For example MU vs ND. ND was the best three point team in the league and it is an important part of their game. I would think it would have a greater effect on them that it would on MU. Another factor is the effect on defense. MU is quicker than Notre Dame, so they should be able to get to a three point shooter faster than Notre Dame can. If Notre Dame would pack it in, they would not be able to get out on an open three point shooter. It might help MU's defense more than it will hurt MU's offense.

[mug644]

I would think it would have a greater effect on them that it would on MU. Another factor is the effect on defense. ... It might help MU's defense more than it will hurt MU's offense.

I can't tell whether you think the greater effect on ND would be positive or negative. I think it would be more positive for their offense than for ours, simply because they have better 3-point shooters (especially Maclarney) and have someone who can play with his back to the basket (Harangody), meaning with the defense spread because of the 3-point threat being a foot further out, it should open up the inside for him to flash up (well, he's exactly quick enough to flash, but you get my idea!) and receive a pass in the lane. Unless we hit 3s, we might not have that opening, and we don't necessarily have the same success posting up at the free-throw line, though Lazar did it pretty successfully in a number of games last year.

I think I agree with your assessment about helping MU's defense. If the offense is more spread out, the passes might be just a touch longer, and our long arms, good anticipation and quick reflexes might allow us to pick off more passes. Then again, without a strong interior defense, we might be vulnerable if a team spreads us out by hitting a few 3s.

[RawdogDX]

I don' really understand the argument that offences (ours or others) will be better because of this due to spacing. if every team that can shoot is helped by this then why didn't coaches just tell players to play a foot off the line?

[mu03eng]

RawDog, its a psychological thing, teams fear the 3 on D.  Also the line gives every player a reference point for their defense.  Now that it is moved out a foot the reference moves as well so defenses will reset where they position themselves.

Someone said it best, if you move the line back a foot, even if you a mediocre shooter you have to defend him shooting the 3.  So then your defense has to move out a foot to at least honor the shot, giving you more floor spacing.  Even if you are "packing" in the defense, the packed in defense is out a foot further.  If its not out a foot further than even a bad shooter can get on a roll hitting uncontested 3s.  I am quite certain with this line movement, Lazar and whoever is under the hoop in a zone offense is going to have amazing numbers this year...just a ton more space.