Doc Rivers future at MU

[5YearsatMU]

i agree with the poster.  doc's allegiance went to tom crean when it came down to it.  that is a problem for someone on the board.  i KNOW there are board members who are unhappy with him about that. 

if his son does end up going to IU, i agree that it will be a slap in the face to MU.  crean didn't get him at MU, but now that 'its indiana' he does get him?  fishy. 

[MUPig]

Who really cares where Doc's son transfers to.  It is not like he could have transferred to MU (BEast rules don't allow it).  It seems like the whiners on this site are more worried about what TC does at IU than they are about the Warriors.  Let it go.  I could care less how well TC does at IU - it is irrelevant.

[THEGYMBAR]

Cooby---Why I am worked is simple. Are all of the BOT's, especially the ones with basketball ties fully on board with their goals. To hire a D1 coach is a major hire, especially for a school like MU that needs the revenue. I think that when the time arose for Doc to use his ball knowledge and help MU he did not have the time needed to really help.

I would think that Doc, being TC's friend, knew that TC had been trying to get IU job since Sampson was let go. MU got caught with no plan to replace TC and it showed by how the search was conducted. I am sure Doc loves and respects MU. But, being coach of the Celtics, having son play elswhere probably trumps his love for MU.

[jce]

I would think that Doc, being TC's friend, knew that TC had been trying to get IU job since Sampson was let go.

There is no evidence to suggest that TC was looking at IU since Sampson was let go, and there is no evidence to suggest that even if he was, that Doc knew about it.

Your just pulling this stuff out of thin air.

[Litehouse]

There is no evidence to suggest that TC was looking at IU since Sampson was let go, and there is no evidence to suggest that even if he was, that Doc knew about it.

Your just pulling this stuff out of thin air.

Um, yes there was...

---Celtics coach Doc Rivers, a former Marquette star who is now on the school's board of trustees, said he advised basketball coach Tom Crean "to go with his heart" before he decided to leave Marquette to coach at Indiana. "Obviously, I don't love it," Rivers said. "But Tom's been fantastic. He is a very close friend. I talked to him [recently]. It's a tough loss for us and a great gain for Indiana."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/04/03/taking_bull_by_horns_in_chicago_t_shirt_flap/

[jce]

Um, yes there was...

---Celtics coach Doc Rivers, a former Marquette star who is now on the school's board of trustees, said he advised basketball coach Tom Crean "to go with his heart" before he decided to leave Marquette to coach at Indiana. "Obviously, I don't love it," Rivers said. "But Tom's been fantastic. He is a very close friend. I talked to him [recently]. It's a tough loss for us and a great gain for Indiana."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/04/03/taking_bull_by_horns_in_chicago_t_shirt_flap/

Um, read what I wrote again...

There is nothing suggesting in your link that TC was looking at IU when Sampson was let go, and that Doc knew about it *at that time.*  Clearly he knew about it earlier than most everyone else, but nothing suggests that he was holding some sort of secret for days or weeks.

[THEGYMBAR]

Again, conflict of interest. I would think being a BOT would trump being a close friend. Not many people in management steer people that have been fantastic out the door. Doc needed to step aside from TC at the time of TC telling him about IU. COMPLETE CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

[Tugg Speedman]

Again, conflict of interest. I would think being a BOT would trump being a close friend. Not many people in management steer people that have been fantastic out the door. Doc needed to step aside from TC at the time of TC telling him about IU. COMPLETE CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

The problem is you don't understand the definition of conflict of interest.  A conflict of interest is when you have a competing professional or personal interests.  It is not having a friend at another unverisity.  Everyone has that.

So, what exactly is Doc's personal or professional interest in Crean at IU?  Don't say his son because he already said he's not in favor of it and the transfer is not a done deal.

Point is their is no conflict of interest.  You are using the term incorrectly.

[Litehouse]

*at that time* wasn't there the first time.  But I agree with you, we obviously have no idea when Crean first started thinking about the job.  All we know is that Doc knew Crean was offered the job before anyone else from MU knew, whether it was 1 day or 3 days, who knows.  I still think the fact he knew and didn't tell anyone raises some serious questions, and I hope Doc had to answer those questions to the other BoT members.

As an aside, does anyone know more about Crean apparently coming to MU to apologize to Fr. Wild?  If true, that would go a long way for me to feeling more settled about the whole situation.

[RawdogDX]

you guys are right, any board member who is a friend of the coach and goes to practices and has occasional phone coversations with him/her should be fired.  That goes for any coach, if you are on the board and have the women's v-ball coach over for dinner then you should not only be stripped of your position you should have your name erased from all the anals of MU history.  Once i saw a board member on campus walking next to the golf coach so i ran up and tasered her in the throat!  Yeah that's what i'm talking about!  Adults who work closely together aren't allowed to confide in each other!

Don't any of you have freinds at your work place?  I love how people have a double standard for anyone who works at MU.

[THEGYMBAR]

Conflict of interest is Doc should put MU's best interest ahead of everything. If TC is so fantastic Doc should fight to keep him at MU.

[jce]

Again, conflict of interest. I would think being a BOT would trump being a close friend. Not many people in management steer people that have been fantastic out the door. Doc needed to step aside from TC at the time of TC telling him about IU. COMPLETE CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

It is not a conflict of interest unless you can show that Doc somehow benefited from this.  If TC called Doc in confidence and sought his professional advice, and Doc told him to go with his heart, Doc in no way benefits.  If Doc was holding this secret for weeks, it may be a breach of fiduciary responsibility, but knowing a day or two before everyone else doesn't even rise to that level - not even close.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Um, read what I wrote again...

There is nothing suggesting in your link that TC was looking at IU when Sampson was let go, and that Doc knew about it *at that time.*  Clearly he knew about it earlier than most everyone else, but nothing suggests that he was holding some sort of secret for days or weeks.

+1


Honestly guys, you are treating this like the Kennedy conspiracy.

We don't know the time line on how/when Crean talked to Doc. You guys are taking some brief and broad comments made by Doc and trying to establish some sort of conspiracy that Doc screwed MU.

I don't know what happened. Doc has been a good rep for MU in the past. I'm not willing to jump to a conclusion that he did something wrong just because he has some quotes about Crean.

Seriously guys, take a breath.

Not everything about Tom Crean is evil, and not everything/everybody he talks to is evil.

[THEGYMBAR]

Rawdog---Double standard? MU basketball is major revenue maker for MU and TC was the driving force behind that machine, like it or not. Doc and the BOT make financial decisions on behalf of the school all the time. No decision is bigger than fate of basketball team.

This is not a friend/ co-worker situation. Doc has position of authority and a responsibilty to use that power in MU's interest. I would never want one of my key employee's helping out another co-worker on making a career change. If one did he/she would be fired or demoted on the spot.

[jce]

*at that time* wasn't there the first time.  But I agree with you, we obviously have no idea when Crean first started thinking about the job.  All we know is that Doc knew Crean was offered the job before anyone else from MU knew, whether it was 1 day or 3 days, who knows.  I still think the fact he knew and didn't tell anyone raises some serious questions, and I hope Doc had to answer those questions to the other BoT members.

To be honest, I think THEGYMBAR is the only one who really cares.  I doubt the other members of the BOT have given it more of a passing thought.

[THEGYMBAR]

jce---YOU ARE 100% CORRECT. THat is why Buzz Williams was hired after very short time. They know they are never questioned. Keep playing follow the leader.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I would never want one of my key employee's helping out another co-worker on making a career change.

I'm not sure saying "Go with your heart" is really helping him make a career change. It's a pretty ambiguous thing to say.

Also, this conversation could have been within hours of Crean committing to IU, so there is no way to establish that Doc withheld information from MU.

[THEGYMBAR]

2002MUalum---Doc saying "Tom we do not want you to leave because you have been fantastic" is what someone representing the school's best interest says. Someone that values friendship or really does not care says "go with your heart"

[jce]

I would never want one of my key employee's helping out another co-worker on making a career change. If one did he/she would be fired or demoted on the spot.

I wouldn't mind one bit.  In fact, I have had bosses that have helped to guide me on potential job changes.  I wouldn't be where I am without that help.

[RawdogDX]

I've been freinds with people in places of athority and i've talked to them about leaving before off the reccord.  There is nothing wrong with that.  I'm sorry if you are socially awkward enough that you are never friends with people in athority, but this isn't an unusual thing.  Not even close, he had a friend he talked to him like a friend.

Further more, You don't know what he said, i'm sure their discussion was more than one sentence.  How many people need to disagree with you for you to admit that you have no idea what you are talking about?  You are oppereating on conjecture.  For all you know Doc could very well have spent the vast majority of the call listing all the reasons to stay and then at the end said 'but, you do have to go with your heart.'  

So unless you have the exact time of the call and a tape of it get over your own guess work, you do this in every post and then have respond to the 100 people who see through it.

And please don't respond with some press clipping.  Those don't tell whole stories and it's pathetic how much you read into them.

[THEGYMBAR]

Rawdog and jce---I am talking about employees that are KEY employees and that put money in the pockets of everyone involved. Doc wants to give advice to a 2nd assistant coach, big deal. He was given advice to the meal ticket.

So with all due respect, unless you two are paying the freight for all of your coworkers it is a very poor comparison. Top people are hard to replace...middle of the road people are replaced or in some cases not even replaced.

I own a company and if certain employees asked for career advice it would be different to each one. A key employee I would say I want you to stay. A middle of the road guy I might encourage to leave.

Question---TC key MU employee or one of five history teachers?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I've been freinds with people in places of athority and i've talked to them about leaving before off the reccord.  There is nothing wrong with that.  I'm sorry if you are socially awkward enough that you are never friends with people in athority, but this isn't an unusual thing.  Not even close, he had a friend he talked to him like a friend.

Further more, You don't know what he said, i'm sure their discussion was more than one sentence.  How many people need to disagree with you for you to admit that you have no idea what you are talking about?  You are oppereating on conjecture.  For all you know Doc could very well have spent the vast majority of the call listing all the reasons to stay and then at the end said 'but, you do have to go with your heart.' 

So unless you have the exact time of the call and a tape of it get over your own guess work, you do this in every post and then have respond to the 100 people who see through it.

And please don't respond with some press clipping.  Those don't tell whole stories and it's pathetic how much you read into them.

Agree 100%

You can't take a 3 sentence quote and pretend like that is EXACTLY what happened. (again, speculation and conjecture based upon a few brief quotes)

He might have pleaded with Crean for an hour... but it wouldn't look very good if a member of the BOT (after a coaching change was announced) came out in the media and said "I pleaded with him to stay for hours"... it makes MU look weak.

I'm sure most people are disappointed that Crean left, but realize that MU is a PROGRAM and it will survive.

[jce]

Rawdog and jce---I am talking about employees that are KEY employees and that put money in the pockets of everyone involved. Doc wants to give advice to a 2nd assistant coach, big deal. He was given advice to the meal ticket.

I still wouldn't mind.  An organization is better off in the long run with that type of open atmosphere. 

[RawdogDX]

SO you would give advice based completely on what you think is best for you?  Sounds like you must be a great boss.  Your response is completely about what you want when your friend is asking your opinion about a choice that vastly effects their future and family?

And as i said before, he probably did tell him he wanted him to stay, (i'd bet $ on it) but you don't know that because you are starting a three page thread off of a few sentence press clipping.  What would you rather that press clipping said? "I begged and pleaded with him to stay but in the end he still wanted to ditch this $h!t hole." 

If you 'advise' your employee's to stay (because you want to make $ off them) and they leave, I'm guessing you'd tell a reporter that you told them to follow their heart and do what's best for themselves.  You wouldn't tell the reporter that you were on your hands and knees whipping yourself to get them to stay.  Welcome to the world of PR.

[HarveysWallbangers]

GYMBAR is doing a poor job of explaining his position, but I believe he has a point.

If the CEO of a company confided to a member of that company's Board of Directors that he has been contacted about another position, it is the responsibility of that board member to report it to the rest of the board. Crean was, in effect, the CEO of Marquette basketball.

I will disagree that Crean was the "meal ticket" as GYMBAR claims. He was feeding at the trough, but he was no meal ticket.