More great publicity, now from Sporting News....Marquette in a panic

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=408951


Grading the new coaching hires


Marquette: In a panic, the Golden Eagles handed Buzz Williams a million-dollar opportunity. One night the school's administration thought it could lure Tony Bennett from Washington State; less than 12 hours later, Marquette assistant Williams was summoned home from the Final Four to interview for the job. Hiring him did not keep the recruiting class together, so what was the hurry? No matter, Williams turned in a solid year as coach at New Orleans in 2006-07 and is better prepared than most assistants to slide into the head coaching chair. Grade: B

[THEGYMBAR]

After reading IU review the report has zero credibility. Obviously he is a very easy grader.

[77ncaachamps]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=408951


Grading the new coaching hires


Marquette: In a panic, the Golden Eagles handed Buzz Williams a million-dollar opportunity. One night the school's administration thought it could lure Tony Bennett from Washington State; less than 12 hours later, Marquette assistant Williams was summoned home from the Final Four to interview for the job. Hiring him did not keep the recruiting class together, so what was the hurry? No matter, Williams turned in a solid year as coach at New Orleans in 2006-07 and is better prepared than most assistants to slide into the head coaching chair. Grade: B

Talk about a conflicting review: He begins with "In a panic..." then ends with a "Grade: B."

[MR.HAYWARD]

Well said by Sporting News....No matter, Williams turned in a solid year as coach at New Orleans in 2006-07 and is better prepared than most assistants to slide into the head coaching chair.


Chicos with all the time you spend defending Crean it is remarkable you still find time to diss Buzz.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well said by Sporting News....No matter, Williams turned in a solid year as coach at New Orleans in 2006-07 and is better prepared than most assistants to slide into the head coaching chair.


Chicos with all the time you spend defending Crean it is remarkable you still find time to diss Buzz.

Funny, how am I dissing Buzz?  I'm posting an article from one of the top 3 or 4 sports publications in the country.  If anything, the article asks the same questions I and many others asked...why the hire so fast?  I'm fine with Buzz, but would have been more fine with him 5 days later.  I'm not dissing him at all, you sure are defensive about it.  The article gives him a B, how is that a diss?  If anything, they are dissing the process which many of us have also.  No dissing of Buzz, I hope like hell Buzz succeeds.  He was available days later, just as this national writer also states...

Meanwhile a national publication is saying this also....maybe I'm Mike DeCourcey...maybe I feed him all his info.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Talk about a conflicting review: He begins with "In a panic..." then ends with a "Grade: B."

Perhaps he thought if MU didn't rush so quickly, a A hire could have happened.  Just a thought.

[Pakuni]

Funny, how am I dissing Buzz?  I'm posting an article from one of the top 3 or 4 sports publications in the country.  If anything, the article asks the same questions I and many others asked...why the hire so fast?  I'm fine with Buzz, but would have been more fine with him 5 days later.  I'm not dissing him at all, you sure are defensive about it.

Meanwhile a national publication is saying this also....maybe I'm Mike DeCourcey...maybe I feed him all his info.   

And I'll continue to ask ... what might have happened in those five extra days that would have made the situation any different? The main criticisms of Buzz - lack of HC experience, lack of Midwest ties, etc. - would have been the same on May 8 as they were on April 8. How would that five days have made him a better or worse head coaching candidate?

If you're going to suggest that MU might have found someone else in those five days, it's pretty apparent by now that that's a specious argument. From everything we know, after MU's top 2-3 choices turned them down, Buzz was their guy. Five days wasn't going to change that. Cottingham wasn't likely to wake up one morning and exclaim "By jove, I must have Brad Brownell!"
Two years from now we may all be here complaining about Buzz Williams' incompetence. But the date upon which he was hired will have nothing to do with it.

As for whether you've been "dissing" Buzz ... well, the term passive-aggressiveness comes to mind. Take this link, for example. DeCourcy has good things to say about Buzz, but your focus in on the panic comment and your chosen subject line sarcastically calls this "great publicity." Perhaps not a diss, but certainly contradictory to your claim that you're "fine" with Buzz.

[MR.HAYWARD]

very well said Pakuni...not to mention the fact that MU's hire despite "the panic" graded out higher than a good number of other BCs school's!! 


It's one ting to have an agenda and sarcasm and all that but then to lie about it and say it is not there is....well....cowardly.  My guess is chicos would be the first one to backslap Buzz and tell him how great he is and then name drop him on message baords if past history is any indicator.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And I'll continue to ask ... what might have happened in those five extra days that would have made the situation any different? The main criticisms of Buzz - lack of HC experience, lack of Midwest ties, etc. - would have been the same on May 8 as they were on April 8. How would that five days have made him a better or worse head coaching candidate?

If you're going to suggest that MU might have found someone else in those five days, it's pretty apparent by now that that's a specious argument. From everything we know, after MU's top 2-3 choices turned them down, Buzz was their guy. Five days wasn't going to change that. Cottingham wasn't likely to wake up one morning and exclaim "By jove, I must have Brad Brownell!"
Two years from now we may all be here complaining about Buzz Williams' incompetence. But the date upon which he was hired will have nothing to do with it.

As for whether you've been "dissing" Buzz ... well, the term passive-aggressiveness comes to mind. Take this link, for example. DeCourcy has good things to say about Buzz, but your focus in on the panic comment and your chosen subject line sarcastically calls this "great publicity." Perhaps not a diss, but certainly contradictory to your claim that you're "fine" with Buzz.

We won't know what would have happened in those 5 days since we didn't try, now will we?  I think that was his point and certainly mine.  No creativity at all on MU's part, which is hardly shocking.  I don't think Cottingham is capable of saying "by jove I have to have Brownwell"...or any number of other guys...does Cottingham even know they exist.   

Passive aggressive....LOL....I posted the very first thing that came out of DeCourcey's writing.  Do you think most people that will read that will focus on the panic move or the fact he did a "solid" job at New Orleans?   My guess is they focus on the panic part because that's what hits you first.  

I'm fine with Buzz in the sense that he's our coach and I want him to do well....but no, I don't think he was the best choice at the time of the hiring.  There were better candidates to be had, IMO, if MU would have been a little creative.  If not, Buzz was still there....but you know it was key to get him signed early to keep the recruiting class in order.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

very well said Pakuni...not to mention the fact that MU's hire despite "the panic" graded out higher than a good number of other BCs school's!! 


It's one ting to have an agenda and sarcasm and all that but then to lie about it and say it is not there is....well....cowardly.  My guess is chicos would be the first one to backslap Buzz and tell him how great he is and then name drop him on message baords if past history is any indicator.

Oh please.  I want Buzz to do well, please show me one post ever where I've indicated I wish him to fail.  Give me a break.  I hope the guy is the next John Wooden.  But I also think our university makes some very odd decisions, Provost Wake being one of them along with an entire slew of others over the last 30 years.  So it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

What's more upsetting to me are the schools that graded higher then we did, many of them currently not as good as MU but they went out and made some very nice hires.  DeCourcey spends 75% of his paragraph taking shots at MU's process and one sentence to say it might be ok....but for that I'm guilty of not focusing on just the last sentence?  LOL

[79Warrior]

And I'll continue to ask ... what might have happened in those five extra days that would have made the situation any different? The main criticisms of Buzz - lack of HC experience, lack of Midwest ties, etc. - would have been the same on May 8 as they were on April 8. How would that five days have made him a better or worse head coaching candidate?

If you're going to suggest that MU might have found someone else in those five days, it's pretty apparent by now that that's a specious argument. From everything we know, after MU's top 2-3 choices turned them down, Buzz was their guy. Five days wasn't going to change that. Cottingham wasn't likely to wake up one morning and exclaim "By jove, I must have Brad Brownell!"
Two years from now we may all be here complaining about Buzz Williams' incompetence. But the date upon which he was hired will have nothing to do with it.

As for whether you've been "dissing" Buzz ... well, the term passive-aggressiveness comes to mind. Take this link, for example. DeCourcy has good things to say about Buzz, but your focus in on the panic comment and your chosen subject line sarcastically calls this "great publicity." Perhaps not a diss, but certainly contradictory to your claim that you're "fine" with Buzz.

I agree with Chicos on this one. One has to question the chain of events. Certainly the fact that 60 people applied for AD and none were interviewed would lead anyone to conclude the coaching "search" was just as suspect.

I think it is fair to say MUu did not make a serious run at either Bennet or Miller.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Why is it that very few people that read this site can realize that criticizing the hiring process of Buzz, and criticizing him are two totally different issues? I don't get it.

The way MU hired him was a panic move. But...we all want him to be successful and to prove us naysayers of him as the choice wrong.

Yes, we'll slap his back if he does a good job because he'll prove us wrong, but more importantly, he'll be doing a good job if that's the case. Something all of us wants.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree with Chicos on this one. One has to question the chain of events. Certainly the fact that 60 people applied for AD and none were interviewed would lead anyone to conclude the coaching "search" was just as suspect.

I think it is fair to say MUu did not make a serious run at either Bennet or Miller.

I actually think they made a serious run at both, though I don't know if ever got to talking turkey.  I'd love to know what we offered Bennett, if we got to that point of figures being exchanged.

Miller I never though we had any shot at all on.  He has no reason to leave at all.  When Dixon goes, he'll be the Pitt coach but until then, he's just fine at Xavier racking up wins.  

I also agree with Pakuni, I think Buzz was their 3rd choice along with probably 3 or 4 other guys all grouped in the same cluster.  That's where I feel they gave up way to early.

I feel good about Buzz's hire of Benford and Layer.  I don't know a thing about Aki, but hopefully he's solid.  Monarch...who knows.  He definitely needs to hit a home run in his first recruiting class if we're going to continue any kind of sustained success.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why is it that very few people that read this site can realize that criticizing the hiring process of Buzz, and criticizing him are two totally different issues? I don't get it.

The way MU hired him was a panic move. But...we all want him to be successful and to prove us naysayers of him as the choice wrong.

Yes, we'll slap his back if he does a good job because he'll prove us wrong, but more importantly, he'll be doing a good job if that's the case. Something all of us wants.

Don't you know, they (those that can't distinguish the difference) have mind reading powers and also practice pschology as a hobby....or in Hayward's case...he's just been doing this same thing for the last 3 years under about 5 different names.   

[rocky_warrior]

Why is it that very few people that read this site can realize that criticizing the hiring process of Buzz, and criticizing him are two totally different issues? I don't get it.

Are the criticisms really that different?  If you think the process was flawed, then you don't like the end result -- or at the very least don't think the end result was the best we could get.  If we hired Roy Williams after 3 days, I doubt you would be saying anything about process. 

What if Buzz was the best we could get?  Does that suddenly make the process flawless?

See...criticizing the process, but saying "oh yeah - I think hiring buzz is great!" doesn't exactly work.  You're saying you don't like the fact that MU hired buzz, because he's buzz, and (you think) they could have done better with a better process.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Are the criticisms really that different?  If you think the process was flawed, then you don't like the end result -- or at the very least don't think the end result was the best we could get.  If we hired Roy Williams after 3 days, I doubt you would be saying anything about process. 

What is Buzz was the best we could get?  Does that suddenly make the process flawless?

See...criticizing the process, but saying that "oh yeah - but I think hiring buzz is great!" doesn't exactly work.  You're saying you don't like the fact that MU hired buzz, because he's buzz, and (you think) they could have done better with a better process.

+1

I'm not sure on this whole thing yet... but I'm hopeful because hopefully MU knows something we don't.

There is a reason why all of us are posting on message boards and not working in athletic departments. It's because we don't really know what we are talking about. If we were experts, we'd be getting paid to do this stuff.


It's all just conjecture, guys.

[spiral97]

I think there is a distinction between the criticisms..

analogy time.. processors are made in huge batches at once.. then they are each tested to make sure they operate as expected and that no defects were present in the manufacturing process.... so.. let's say the military goes to Intel and says we need one of your XYZ processors to go into this missile... and we need it in 6 days cuz we're going to launch it immediately at that time.. and Intel, instead of letting a batch go through the 5 day testing cycle just picks one off the conveyor belt immediately after manufacture and hands it to the military 5 days early... the military installs the processor and shoots off the missile which performs flawlessly and knocks off the intended enemy target rather than a children's hospital located in the US.

I would certainly have a beef with the process used to select the processor.. it's basically russian roulette.. however, the processor worked perfectly so I would have no beef with the processor itself.. even before the missile was fired I would have no grounds for a beef with processor.. Furthermore, even if they had gone through a more rigorous evaluation of the whole batch we may have chosen the same processor in the end.

as such.. I currently have no real beef with buzz.. he might end up working out perfectly as the coach (he certainly is showing promise).. but I'd be hard pressed to say that the process that was used to pick him was anything approaching ideal.

[bma725]

I actually think they made a serious run at both, though I don't know if ever got to talking turkey.  I'd love to know what we offered Bennett, if we got to that point of figures being exchanged.

I swear Homer said on one of his shows that MU offered Bennett either right under $2mil or $2mil exactly and Bennett said no.

[THEGYMBAR]

Chic's and Niv...Right on!!! I have been critical of Buzz hiring but who does not want him succeed? The process of hiring and national reaction to the hiring is what I am disappointed in. Buzz might be John Wooden and I hope that happens.

[4everwarriors]

Why worry about Strong's hire at this point? If all Buzz recruits over the next three years are Mike Deane caliber players, he'll get kicked to the curb and we'll be doing this all over again soon.
To me the only question is whether Williams can sell his program to 4 and 5 star players. Unfortunately, it seems doubtful.

[77ncaachamps]

DeCourcy's like the rest of us: outside the hiring process.

Thus he can call it a "panic" - well, it kinda was since it was surprising - but to suggest that hiring Buzz was Plan D or Plan E is ludicrous. He may not have the desired top quality experience of a replacment coach, but he had some. And since other desired coaches/asst. coaches - except IL's Weber who publicly stated he was interested - never really actively persued the position with such fervor as we, MU fans, would expect from them, I think it's tough to piss on the hiring of Buzz.

I do not believe that any of the top tier coaches we wanted (i.e., Bennett and Miller) were really chomping at the bit to lead MU. I believe it was more of a bargaining chip to use with their institutions to improve their current status.

[Niv Berkowitz]

DeCourcy is outside the process....but he's also outside the MU fandom realm, unlike all of us.

Nationally, perception = reality.

We can all sit here and be optimistic that the sky isn't falling. And we can all talk ourselves into Buzz (and I've done a good job of that too...again, the optimism of a "fan").

But when it comes to that hour or two that Buzz has to sit w/a kid and his family and convince him of MU, he now not only has to convince them of MU, he has to do a much more powerful job of convincing them on him since he's such an unknown (now). And, if the only thing people know of MU is the old coach and nothing about the new guy, then we are starting off one step behind our compeition from the get go.

THis has all been re-hashed a kajillion times here, but that's all this stuff is. And because of this perception and considering the team coming in next season, Buzz unfortunately and fortunately has to succeed quickly short-term in order to have any shot at long-term success at MU. If he doesn't, that "perception" will never be changed.

[ATWizJr]

4ever   it seems doubtful?  What is the evidence of that at this early point in the recruiting process?

[4everwarriors]

Granted no concrete evidence at this point other than TT. Just my perception that top tier players, who BTW aspire to play in the Association, aren't going to trust their basketball futures with an unknown commodity like Buzz when more sucessful coaches are calling.

[79Warrior]

I actually think they made a serious run at both, though I don't know if ever got to talking turkey.  I'd love to know what we offered Bennett, if we got to that point of figures being exchanged.

Miller I never though we had any shot at all on.  He has no reason to leave at all.  When Dixon goes, he'll be the Pitt coach but until then, he's just fine at Xavier racking up wins.  

I also agree with Pakuni, I think Buzz was their 3rd choice along with probably 3 or 4 other guys all grouped in the same cluster.  That's where I feel they gave up way to early.

I feel good about Buzz's hire of Benford and Layer.  I don't know a thing about Aki, but hopefully he's solid.  Monarch...who knows.  He definitely needs to hit a home run in his first recruiting class if we're going to continue any kind of sustained success.

I have heard we never discussed any figures with either coach. There was a feeler out to gauge interest. I suspect if  the feelers were MU will pay 2mm, Bennet's people would have opened discussions. Money never came out, MU was just trying to find out if there was mutual ground. Beleive me, 2mm would have moved TB out of Pulman.