Kevin O'Neill available: did MU move too quickly with Buzz?

[Warrior of Law]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/ua/

I don't know if he'd have come back, but it's worth a daydream in the off-season...

[ecompt]

I wouldn't think either party would look to reunite.

[madtownwarrior]

would you really want that foul mouth, program jumping ahole representing MU again?

[lurch91]

He's the proverbial guy I'd have a beer with, but wouldn't let him date my sister - EVER!

He's a very entertaining and fun guy to be around (if you're not the subject of his abuse), but that's about it.

[MUPig]

What ever happened to KO being the heir apparent / golden boy at Arizona?  He must have pissed someone off.  Did I miss something?

[4everwarriors]

I rather take my chances with Buzz.

[jce]

What ever happened to KO being the heir apparent / golden boy at Arizona?  He must have pissed someone off.  Did I miss something?

He was the heir apparent, but didn't perform real well when given the interim gig, and then rumor was that he was trying to push Lute away.

[THEGYMBAR]

KO was fun guy to suck a hudred beers with, but not a return engagement. He finally burned the AZ bridge and made a mistake in doing so. Never cross a legend. KO would have tried to get the job back in a heartbeat. He sent out feelers the last time the job was open. He will go anywhere if the $$$ was right.

[RawdogDX]

He's the proverbial guy I'd have a beer with, but wouldn't let him date my sister - EVER!

So is your sister also proverbial?  What kind of guy are you looking to set her up with?  Do you have full control of her dating life?  How would you 'rate' her friends?

[77ncaachamps]

KO was the head coach when I got there, and then Deane cleaned up my last years at MU.

KO wasn't a personality like Crean. He was an okay recruiter, but because of his emphasis on defense, some of MU's games were EXCRUITIATINGLY hard to watch: slow, working the ball, hunkering down, close games.

Since he's tasted the NBA and been at high-major state teams, I don't think he'll be welcome nor will he fit this program's needs this time or any time in the future.

[lurch91]

So is your sister also proverbial?  What kind of guy are you looking to set her up with?  Do you have full control of her dating life?  How would you 'rate' her friends?

She's married.

[tower912]

But back in the day.....     Nah, his sister is cool.

[NYWarrior]

KO........was an okay recruiter,

Huh?  The only coach who ever recruited better at MU was McGuire.  During his brief five-year run at MU, KO recruited three guys who played in the NBA -- plus he had a gift for identifying diamonds in the rough & he managed to land them just about every year (of course, not all were diamonds in the rough -- but look at the talent he brought in):

Hutchins
Crawford
McCaskill
Miller
Eford
Key
McIlvaine
Logterman
Pieper
Curry
Abraham
heck, even Shannon Smith was a great collegian just not a good fit at MU

These kids could play......look at the top 15 list of all-time MU performers in just about any category - - players KO recruited are disproportionately represented across the board, ie: #1 and #3 in assists, three of the top 11 rebounders in MU history, 5 of the top 10 3pt shooters (FGs made) in MU history, 2 of the top 10 in steals, the top 3 shotblockers in the history of the program, 3 of the top 15 scorers in MU history.

That's a ton of talent to flow into a program in just five years, plus he made TSmith an NBA player after a superstar senior season.  KO had an eye for talent that was exceptional, and a gift for developing talent.....too bad he didn't have patience, The Al, and the Big East.

[MR.HAYWARD]

i completely agree...amny of the same people that adored Crean because they thought Crean did some unimaginable thing here at MU only felt that way because due to their youth did not realize that a fellow named Oneill had done it just 10 years before.  actually oneill did a better job than Crean he took over a program that had been run into the ground by the previous coach, had no conference and no facilities.  Crean took over from a coach that avergaed 20 wins by riding oneills coattails, and was in a major conference getting televison exposure and had recently played in conference title games and ncaa tourneys.  i will say it agian as i have said it before,  oneil did a finer job at Mu than Crean did in amore difficult position.  Crean gets the "hype" becuase many do not rmeber oneill and becuase of the final 4,  oneil has the benfits of the al and a major conference and there is not telling what he could have done, in fact a few points here or there in 1994 and Oniell might have had a final 4.  Oneill out recruited crean's socks off with way less going for him. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

i completely agree...amny of the same people that adored Crean because they thought Crean did some unimaginable thing here at MU only felt that way because due to their youth did not realize that a fellow named Oneill had done it just 10 years before.  actually oneill did a better job than Crean he took over a program that had been run into the ground by the previous coach, had no conference and no facilities.  Crean took over from a coach that avergaed 20 wins by riding oneills coattails, and was in a major conference getting televison exposure and had recently played in conference title games and ncaa tourneys.  i will say it agian as i have said it before,  oneil did a finer job at Mu than Crean did in amore difficult position.  Crean gets the "hype" becuase many do not rmeber oneill and becuase of the final 4,  oneil has the benfits of the al and a major conference and there is not telling what he could have done, in fact a few points here or there in 1994 and Oniell might have had a final 4.  Oneill out recruited crean's socks off with way less going for him. 

KO did a great job, but I'm not sure about the "more difficult" comment.  We were an independent when KO took over.  Then the MCC.  Yes, tougher to recruit to, but easier to get wins as well.  Also, Crean didn't have the Al when he started and was in CUSA when he started.  KO also has the added luxury in state that Wisconsin sucked ass and didn't become a good program until after he left.

Needless to say, they both did a very good job for MU, and both were arseholes   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

i completely agree...amny of the same people that adored Crean because they thought Crean did some unimaginable thing here at MU only felt that way because due to their youth did not realize that a fellow named Oneill had done it just 10 years before.  actually oneill did a better job than Crean he took over a program that had been run into the ground by the previous coach, had no conference and no facilities.  Crean took over from a coach that avergaed 20 wins by riding oneills coattails, and was in a major conference getting televison exposure and had recently played in conference title games and ncaa tourneys.  i will say it agian as i have said it before,  oneil did a finer job at Mu than Crean did in amore difficult position.  Crean gets the "hype" becuase many do not rmeber oneill and becuase of the final 4,  oneil has the benfits of the al and a major conference and there is not telling what he could have done, in fact a few points here or there in 1994 and Oniell might have had a final 4.  Oneill out recruited crean's socks off with way less going for him. 

On a 1-10 scale:

O'Neil lifted MU from a 1 to a 4
Crean lifted MU from a 4 to a 10

Both are equally important and difficult... not sure you can really attach a "better" or "worse" rating to either.

I'll just say "different".

[1990Warrior]

Shouldn't 10 be reserved for a national championship?

I would say
ONeil:   3 to 6
Crean:  5 to 8

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Shouldn't 10 be reserved for a national championship?

I would say
ONeil:   3 to 6
Crean:  5 to 8

Yea, I was just using 10 as the rating for the current program... not a rating of the program compared to others... but your comparison is probably about right.

[jce]

KO did a great job, but I'm not sure about the "more difficult" comment.  We were an independent when KO took over.  Then the MCC.  Yes, tougher to recruit to, but easier to get wins as well.  Also, Crean didn't have the Al when he started and was in CUSA when he started.  KO also has the added luxury in state that Wisconsin sucked ass and didn't become a good program until after he left.

Needless to say, they both did a very good job for MU, and both were arseholes   

Slight correction here.  When KO took over, MU was already in the MCC...or at least they had already announced that intention.

[jce]

Huh?  The only coach who ever recruited better at MU was McGuire.  During his brief five-year run at MU, KO recruited three guys who played in the NBA --

Who were the three?  McInvaine, McCaskill and ???

BTW, Crean recruited three too...with more to be determined.

[lurch91]

Who were the three?  McInvaine, McCaskill and ???

BTW, Crean recruited three too...with more to be determined.

Crawford played for Atlanta for about 4 years before a knee injury ended his career.  He was injured on a layup by a young Kevin Garnett. (if I recall correctly).  Just remember the point was KO sent 3 to the NBA in a five year stay at MU, Crean will haev sent 3(+?) to the NBA in 9 years.

[NYWarrior]

Crawford played for Atlanta for about 4 years before a knee injury ended his career.

Chris Crawford, the $16M man.......KO got him over Western Michigan.  LOL

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crawfch01.html

The man had quite an eye for talented players.

[CTWarrior]

Shouldn't 10 be reserved for a national championship?

I would say
ONeil:   3 to 6
Crean:  5 to 8

The roster O'Neill left behind plus recruits was more balanced and deeper than what Crean left.

O'Neill:  2 to 7
Crean:  5 to 8

I think overall O'Neill did the better job in terms of raising the level of the program.  I have always thought so.  Crean did a much, much better job of keeping Marquette in the public eye, but I'm not sure I know what that is worth.  The tangible benefits of the Final Four in terms of donations, etc., was Crean's biggest accomplishment, by far.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Slight correction here.  When KO took over, MU was already in the MCC...or at least they had already announced that intention.

Yes, the announcement was made in 1988 but their first league game wasn't until the 1989-90 season.  Thanks for the clarification.

[lurch91]

Chris Crawford, the $16M man.......KO got him over Western Michigan.  LOL

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crawfch01.html

The man had quite an eye for talented players.

Holy carp Crawford played was on a roster in the NBA for 7 years?  That's amazing!  I wish I had his pension!