Brian Curtis from CSTV thinks MU panicked

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/041108aad.html

[Chili]

so do i.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Is it even a debatable point that they panicked? The decision seems worse every day.

[OneMadWarrior]

I agree with PRN, while we all knwo this was a rushed panic acall on the part of the BOT, its time we do our best Jesuit impressiona nd pr\ay it works out in the end. BEsides who gives a crap abotu waht all these writers think. Of course they are goign to think the same thing as most of us. Do we really need them to vaildate that point. Lets move on and hope that Buzz recruits the hell out of texas.

[ATWizJr]

yeah we panicked. 

What we should have done was to wait a while longer, then offer the job and be turned down publicly several times so that we could be the laughingstock of the conference.

Brian Curtis must have grown up in Rhode Island.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

yeah we panicked. 

What we should have done was to wait a while longer, then offer the job and be turned down publicly several times so that we could be the laughingstock of the conference.

Looking at the roster of coaches in the BIG EAST, I'd say we're already the laughingstock of the conference.

[ChicosBailBonds]

yeah we panicked. 

What we should have done was to wait a while longer, then offer the job and be turned down publicly several times so that we could be the laughingstock of the conference.

Brian Curtis must have grown up in Rhode Island.

Brian might be thinking that Buzz would be here for quite some time, always a fall back position.  Just a guess.

[Pakuni]

yeah we panicked. 

What we should have done was to wait a while longer, then offer the job and be turned down publicly several times so that we could be the laughingstock of the conference.

Brian Curtis must have grown up in Rhode Island.

Brian might be thinking that Buzz would be here for quite some time, always a fall back position.  Just a guess.

What's the proper amount of rejections before one takes the fall back position? you guys keep saying MU should have waited, should have waited, should have waited. Waited for what?
Would Marquette have been better off conducting a Providence-like search?

[ChicosBailBonds]

yeah we panicked. 

What we should have done was to wait a while longer, then offer the job and be turned down publicly several times so that we could be the laughingstock of the conference.

Brian Curtis must have grown up in Rhode Island.

Brian might be thinking that Buzz would be here for quite some time, always a fall back position.  Just a guess.

What's the proper amount of rejections before one takes the fall back position? Would Marquette have been better off conducting a Providence-like search?

Depends who Providence ends up with, don't you think?  Furthermore, the Providence search has been going on for WEEKS, ours went on for 3 days before a decision was made.  So to answer your question, something more than 3 days and less than weeks....how about we go crazy and say 7 days.   

[ATWizJr]

ok, 'fess up, which one of you guys read the roster of Big East Coaches to PRN?

[OneMadWarrior]

I completely agree with Pakuni, are they supposed to sit there and sit on there hands and keep reachign out to coaches that have no desire to be reached out to. SO they didn't hire the popular choice. There are much historical evidence that sometime the unpopular choice can turn out to be a good choice. They acted quickly and decisively. The quick action shodul show how much confidence they have in Brent as a coach. While the BOT doesn't deserve all credit for MU's success as an institution the last 10 years you also can't deny that they should be given at least soem credit and that they aren't jsut a bunch of shaved apes in a room flinign poo at a board until it hits there choice.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I completely agree with Pakuni, are they supposed to sit there and sit on there hands and keep reachign out to coaches that have no desire to be reached out to. SO they didn't hire the popular choice. There are much historical evidence that sometime the unpopular choice can turn out to be a good choice. They acted quickly and decisively. The quick action shodul show how much confidence they have in Brent as a coach. While the BOT doesn't deserve all credit for MU's success as an institution the last 10 years you also can't deny that they should be given at least soem credit and that they aren't jsut a bunch of shaved apes in a room flinign poo at a board until it hits there choice.

There's much more historical evident that the unpopular choice is the good choice...really?   There are always those that will just as some that were "slam dunk" hires that failed.  But the landscape is littered with many many many 3rd, 4th, 5th choice candidates that also crashed and burned hard.  So Miller and Bennett said no, big deal.  Plenty of other guys were there to pursue that weren't.  Brownwell not even contacted...WOW.  Ford not even contacted...WOW.  Etc, etc. 

Look, I'm not against Buzz.  I want him to do very well.  I'm not against hiring Buzz either, I just think we could have given it another couple of days.  I commend Providence for at least being able to bring in a Final Four coach and a top up and comer to the point of getting them on campus and considering the place.  They're making the right efforts to go after an impact hire.  They aren't settling, yet.  If they have to settle, they can.  We did that almost out of the gate, that's all.

[ATWizJr]

I think there's a great chance that Buzz would've been gone, either to IU or to another head coaching spot elsewhere.  I know this is not always true, but the devil you know......

[Pakuni]

Depends who Providence ends up with, don't you think?  Furthermore, the Providence search has been going on for WEEKS, ours went on for 3 days before a decision was made.  So to answer your question, something more than 3 days and less than weeks....how about we go crazy and say 7 days.   

Just answer the questions, please.
How many rejections?
Wait for what?

By all accounts, after Miller and Bennett said no, Williams was the administration's guy. Whether their faith in him is justified remains to be seen. But if their top two guys are out, and their next guy is sitting there, why wait and for what?
Where's the upside in it? And does that outweigh the downside?

[Pakuni]

I completely agree with Pakuni, are they supposed to sit there and sit on there hands and keep reachign out to coaches that have no desire to be reached out to. SO they didn't hire the popular choice. There are much historical evidence that sometime the unpopular choice can turn out to be a good choice. They acted quickly and decisively. The quick action shodul show how much confidence they have in Brent as a coach. While the BOT doesn't deserve all credit for MU's success as an institution the last 10 years you also can't deny that they should be given at least soem credit and that they aren't jsut a bunch of shaved apes in a room flinign poo at a board until it hits there choice.

There's much more historical evident that the unpopular choice is the good choice...really?   There are always those that will just as some that were "slam dunk" hires that failed.  But the landscape is littered with many many many 3rd, 4th, 5th choice candidates that also crashed and burned hard.  So Miller and Bennett said no, big deal.  Plenty of other guys were there to pursue that weren't.  Brownwell not even contacted...WOW.  Ford not even contacted...WOW.  Etc, etc. 

Look, I'm not against Buzz.  I want him to do very well.  I'm not against hiring Buzz either, I just think we could have given it another couple of days.  I commend Providence for at least being able to bring in a Final Four coach and a top up and comer to the point of getting them on campus and considering the place.  They're making the right efforts to go after an impact hire.  They aren't settling, yet.  If they have to settle, they can.  We did that almost out of the gate, that's all.

Warrior fan speaketh with forked tongue. You say you're not against Buzz, but you are upset the university didn't consider and/or contact everyone under the sun instead.  If you think MU should have gone after all these other people instead, then you're obviously against Buzz. And who knows, maybe your instinct will be proven correct.

That said, could you at least allow for the possibility that they didn't contact Brownell (though we don't know this for fact) because they thought Buzz was a better choice? Could it be they didn't contact Ford because they thought Buzz was a better choice?

Again, whether that belief was correct is something we'll learn over the next few years, but I think it's foolish to assume Buzz was a panic choice rather than simply the choice.

Anyhow, if MU hired Travis Ford after being turned down by Bennett, Miller, Grant, etc. ... is that not settling? If they went with Brownell after their top choices said 'Thanks, but no thanks', that's not settling?
MU had a first choice. Everybody after that was "settling."

[ecompt]

Yeah, we're the laughingstock of the conference, PRN, never finishing lower than sixth in three seasons. God help us.

[Big Papi]

I completely agree with Pakuni, are they supposed to sit there and sit on there hands and keep reachign out to coaches that have no desire to be reached out to. SO they didn't hire the popular choice. There are much historical evidence that sometime the unpopular choice can turn out to be a good choice. They acted quickly and decisively. The quick action shodul show how much confidence they have in Brent as a coach. While the BOT doesn't deserve all credit for MU's success as an institution the last 10 years you also can't deny that they should be given at least soem credit and that they aren't jsut a bunch of shaved apes in a room flinign poo at a board until it hits there choice.

There's much more historical evident that the unpopular choice is the good choice...really?   There are always those that will just as some that were "slam dunk" hires that failed.  But the landscape is littered with many many many 3rd, 4th, 5th choice candidates that also crashed and burned hard.  So Miller and Bennett said no, big deal.  Plenty of other guys were there to pursue that weren't.  Brownwell not even contacted...WOW.  Ford not even contacted...WOW.  Etc, etc. 

Look, I'm not against Buzz.  I want him to do very well.  I'm not against hiring Buzz either, I just think we could have given it another couple of days.  I commend Providence for at least being able to bring in a Final Four coach and a top up and comer to the point of getting them on campus and considering the place.  They're making the right efforts to go after an impact hire.  They aren't settling, yet.  If they have to settle, they can.  We did that almost out of the gate, that's all.

Who says we settled?  You and maybe a lot of MU fans but I don't think Cottingham, Fr. Wild and other members on the board settled.  We wanted Bennett and went after Bennett.  How long should we go after a coach that doesn't want to come here? 

After that I truely believe Cottingham and Fr. Wild and everyone else involved in the process thought that Buzz was the best choice.  Again I don't know if I agree with the decision but I do commend them for coming up with a short list and then executing what they believe is the best choice for the team and the university.  Why interview others when you feel you have the right guy for the job?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think there's a great chance that Buzz would've been gone, either to IU or to another head coaching spot elsewhere.  I know this is not always true, but the devil you know......

If Buzz went to IU as an assistant, you don't think he would take the MU job as the head coach if it were offered?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Depends who Providence ends up with, don't you think?  Furthermore, the Providence search has been going on for WEEKS, ours went on for 3 days before a decision was made.  So to answer your question, something more than 3 days and less than weeks....how about we go crazy and say 7 days.   

Just answer the questions, please.
How many rejections?
Wait for what?

By all accounts, after Miller and Bennett said no, Williams was the administration's guy. Whether their faith in him is justified remains to be seen. But if their top two guys are out, and their next guy is sitting there, why wait and for what?
Where's the upside in it? And does that outweigh the downside?

Ah yes, we now agree on something.  I agree, Buzz was their #3 guy....this is where I think MU sold themselves vastly short.  I don't know how a top 25 program, on a 3 year NCAA streak, paying $1.6 million a year to the previous coach has an assistant with a 14-17 head coaching record as the #3 guy.

Let's hope it works out.

As to your question, it's impossible to answer Pakuni.  It all depends on who you ultimately get, does it not?  If Providence ends up with say a Brownwell or Larry Brown, then they did a terrific job and the rejections are well worth it.  If they end up with Cobb or someone like that, then the rejections weren't worth it.  You can't just assign a number because it's all relative to you actually hire.   I remember UCLA was rejected by 5 candidates in the early 1990's, they finally got their 6th choice.  He won them a national title a few years later.  Just as I remember a 1977 MU club coming off a national title that decided to go internal...and then a few years later...went internal again.  And we spent the next two decades recovering after a slow slide which led to a more rapid slide to an absolute freefall after Majerus left.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I completely agree with Pakuni, are they supposed to sit there and sit on there hands and keep reachign out to coaches that have no desire to be reached out to. SO they didn't hire the popular choice. There are much historical evidence that sometime the unpopular choice can turn out to be a good choice. They acted quickly and decisively. The quick action shodul show how much confidence they have in Brent as a coach. While the BOT doesn't deserve all credit for MU's success as an institution the last 10 years you also can't deny that they should be given at least soem credit and that they aren't jsut a bunch of shaved apes in a room flinign poo at a board until it hits there choice.

There's much more historical evident that the unpopular choice is the good choice...really?   There are always those that will just as some that were "slam dunk" hires that failed.  But the landscape is littered with many many many 3rd, 4th, 5th choice candidates that also crashed and burned hard.  So Miller and Bennett said no, big deal.  Plenty of other guys were there to pursue that weren't.  Brownwell not even contacted...WOW.  Ford not even contacted...WOW.  Etc, etc. 

Look, I'm not against Buzz.  I want him to do very well.  I'm not against hiring Buzz either, I just think we could have given it another couple of days.  I commend Providence for at least being able to bring in a Final Four coach and a top up and comer to the point of getting them on campus and considering the place.  They're making the right efforts to go after an impact hire.  They aren't settling, yet.  If they have to settle, they can.  We did that almost out of the gate, that's all.

Warrior fan speaketh with forked tongue. You say you're not against Buzz, but you are upset the university didn't consider and/or contact everyone under the sun instead.  If you think MU should have gone after all these other people instead, then you're obviously against Buzz. And who knows, maybe your instinct will be proven correct.

That said, could you at least allow for the possibility that they didn't contact Brownell (though we don't know this for fact) because they thought Buzz was a better choice? Could it be they didn't contact Ford because they thought Buzz was a better choice?

Again, whether that belief was correct is something we'll learn over the next few years, but I think it's foolish to assume Buzz was a panic choice rather than simply the choice.

Anyhow, if MU hired Travis Ford after being turned down by Bennett, Miller, Grant, etc. ... is that not settling? If they went with Brownell after their top choices said 'Thanks, but no thanks', that's not settling?
MU had a first choice. Everybody after that was "settling."

Nice try, but that's won't play.   I'm not against Buzz, especially now because he's the head coach.  Certainly you can understand that.


Would getting Ford be settling...yes....settling after Miller and Bennett but a potentially better hire then Williams.  There's degrees of settling....I could go after Ms. California and get rejected but "settle" for Ms. Alaska but that's still better then settling for Ms. Fat USA.  I'm sure, again, you can understand there are levels of settling and a pecking order of settling.  I'd rather "settle" for my 5th choice if he's better then the 10th if you know what I mean, and if that means being rejected 4 times so be it.   

Obviously MU valued Williams much higher on the list then I or almost every national pundit.  Now, to MU's benefit, they know Williams better than I or those national pundits.  We'll see if it works out, but yes I will continue to scratch my head that he was either #3 on the list or if he wasn't, how in the hell a program in MU's situation gives up after two rejections.

Thank you for your time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I completely agree with Pakuni, are they supposed to sit there and sit on there hands and keep reachign out to coaches that have no desire to be reached out to. SO they didn't hire the popular choice. There are much historical evidence that sometime the unpopular choice can turn out to be a good choice. They acted quickly and decisively. The quick action shodul show how much confidence they have in Brent as a coach. While the BOT doesn't deserve all credit for MU's success as an institution the last 10 years you also can't deny that they should be given at least soem credit and that they aren't jsut a bunch of shaved apes in a room flinign poo at a board until it hits there choice.

There's much more historical evident that the unpopular choice is the good choice...really?   There are always those that will just as some that were "slam dunk" hires that failed.  But the landscape is littered with many many many 3rd, 4th, 5th choice candidates that also crashed and burned hard.  So Miller and Bennett said no, big deal.  Plenty of other guys were there to pursue that weren't.  Brownwell not even contacted...WOW.  Ford not even contacted...WOW.  Etc, etc. 

Look, I'm not against Buzz.  I want him to do very well.  I'm not against hiring Buzz either, I just think we could have given it another couple of days.  I commend Providence for at least being able to bring in a Final Four coach and a top up and comer to the point of getting them on campus and considering the place.  They're making the right efforts to go after an impact hire.  They aren't settling, yet.  If they have to settle, they can.  We did that almost out of the gate, that's all.

Who says we settled?  You and maybe a lot of MU fans but I don't think Cottingham, Fr. Wild and other members on the board settled.  We wanted Bennett and went after Bennett.  How long should we go after a coach that doesn't want to come here? 

After that I truely believe Cottingham and Fr. Wild and everyone else involved in the process thought that Buzz was the best choice.  Again I don't know if I agree with the decision but I do commend them for coming up with a short list and then executing what they believe is the best choice for the team and the university.  Why interview others when you feel you have the right guy for the job?

Oh, I agree entirely....I think Cottingham and Wild absolutely don't think they settled.  That, is exactly my point.  Don't shoot for the stars and you aren't settling...exactly my point.

[77ncaachamps]

Who says we settled?  You and maybe a lot of MU fans but I don't think Cottingham, Fr. Wild and other members on the board settled.  We wanted Bennett and went after Bennett.  How long should we go after a coach that doesn't want to come here? 

After that I truely believe Cottingham and Fr. Wild and everyone else involved in the process thought that Buzz was the best choice.  Again I don't know if I agree with the decision but I do commend them for coming up with a short list and then executing what they believe is the best choice for the team and the university.  Why interview others when you feel you have the right guy for the job?

Oh, I agree entirely....I think Cottingham and Wild absolutely don't think they settled.  That, is exactly my point.  Don't shoot for the stars and you aren't settling...exactly my point.

Though I think they might have settled for a safe choice, the market was not a favorable one for Marquette.

With that said, I give Buzz 3-5 years before MU decides on a new coach. Just got a feeling that they're always going to be monitoring who's out there.

[Chili]

Who says we settled?  You and maybe a lot of MU fans but I don't think Cottingham, Fr. Wild and other members on the board settled.  We wanted Bennett and went after Bennett.  How long should we go after a coach that doesn't want to come here? 

After that I truely believe Cottingham and Fr. Wild and everyone else involved in the process thought that Buzz was the best choice.  Again I don't know if I agree with the decision but I do commend them for coming up with a short list and then executing what they believe is the best choice for the team and the university.  Why interview others when you feel you have the right guy for the job?

Oh, I agree entirely....I think Cottingham and Wild absolutely don't think they settled.  That, is exactly my point.  Don't shoot for the stars and you aren't settling...exactly my point.

Though I think they might have settled for a safe choice, the market was not a favorable one for Marquette.


With that said, I give Buzz 3-5 years before MU decides on a new coach. Just got a feeling that they're always going to be monitoring who's out there.

I think Buzz has a two year honeymoon or less. If he falls flat next year and this team is say below .500 it is time to Ray Rhodes him out - one and done.

[ChicosBailBonds]

77, certainly the eye will be on closely and I hope like hell they were right and he just kicks ass.


I am curious, however, why do you think it as a bad market?  Seems to me that basketball coaching jobs are a self created market that involves pressing the right levers and making the correct pitch.  

[77ncaachamps]

77, certainly the eye will be on closely and I hope like hell they were right and he just kicks ass.


I am curious, however, why do you think it as a bad market?  Seems to me that basketball coaching jobs are a self created market that involves pressing the right levers and making the correct pitch.  

I think it's a bad market because it seemed to me that many of the top names were unwilling to budge from their young programs; lots of top conference openings were not being filled quickly (and if filled, not with their top guys in mind); the coaching "dominoes" simply were not falling for lots of teams (bad omen for MU); and the little time MU had to move and court a new coach.

I don't think that basketball coaching jobs are a "self-created" market for all teams, only the elite. MU is not there. If this was the case for MU, we would have had the ears of our top candidates while at The AL. Then and only then, whould the pressing of levers and issuing of pitches be done.