This is jaw-dropping stuff

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Translation: "We know he can't coach, but we hope he can bring in good players."

That ought to convince Taylor/Hurley to sign up!

Have I entered the twilight zone? Do we not have a veteran team next year with a chance -- with proper leadership -- to do something good?

http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/default.aspx

[Pakuni]

Translation: "We know he can't coach, but we hope he can bring in good players."

That ought to convince Taylor/Hurley to sign up!

Have I entered the twilight zone? Do we not have a veteran team next year with a chance -- with proper leadership -- to do something good?

http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/default.aspx

If the last eight days has taught us nothing else, it's taught us that team has loads of leadership.

But why should anyone take the advice of Doc Rivers, Billy Gillispie, Ulice Payne, etc., when they could just ask PRN how to run the program? National Championship, here we come!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

If those Bergstrom, Payne and Rivers think Buzz Williams was the best hire for Marquette than yes, I do know more about how to run a program than they do.

[StillAWarrior]

Translation: "We know he can't coach, but we hope he can bring in good players."

http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/default.aspx

To be fair, a better translation is:  "We don't know if he can coach, but we do know he can recruit."


Granted, it's only marginally better, but is is better.

[Tugg Speedman]

Didn't IU just hire a coach for a reputation as a good recruiter and suspect on the Xs and Os?

[Litehouse]

My biggest concern is that Buzz may have a great reputation as a recruiter, but I don't know if that means he'll be a great recruiter for Marquette.  His reputation is built on getting kids from Texas.  Texas kids going to Texas A&M is a lot different than Texas kids going to Marquette.  He got commitments from Otule, Fulce and E.Williams, but they haven't enrolled yet and we'll see how they eventually work out.  MU hasn't had the best luck recently with southern kids coming to Milwaukee (Bradley and Christian and the two that stick out).  Whether it's the cold weather, different culture, whatever, the southern kids haven't always stuck around for 4 yrs.  I'd hate to start a pipeline of recruits coming north from Texas only to have a pipeline of transfers heading back south.  If Buzz can keep Taylor on board, that will give me a lot more confidence.

[Pakuni]

If those Bergstrom, Payne and Rivers think Buzz Williams was the best hire for Marquette than yes, I do know more about how to run a program than they do.

OK, you know more about the game than a former NBA coach of the year who happens to have the league's best team right now.Got it.

I'm guessing then that your application for the AD job got lost in the mail.

It's simple, really. At many, if not most, schools recruiting is the most important thing a coach can do. Marquette isn't UNC or Kansas or UCLA or even Memphis. The name Marquette doesn't sell itself to 16- and 17-year-old kids.

Mike Deane was a great Xs and Os coach who sent Marquette basketball on a downward sprial. Tom Crean had dubious coaching skills, but brought in players good enough for five NCAA appearances the past seven years.
Pretty simple to grasp, one would think.

[MUshrooms]

Stop starting new threads that will only turn into one big negative discussion.  There are already plenty up.  Thank you.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

If those Bergstrom, Payne and Rivers think Buzz Williams was the best hire for Marquette than yes, I do know more about how to run a program than they do.

OK, you know more about the game than a former NBA coach of the year who happens to have the league's best team right now.Got it.

I'm guessing then that your application for the AD job got lost in the mail.

It's simple, really. At many, if not most, schools recruiting is the most important thing a coach can do. Marquette isn't UNC or Kansas or UCLA or even Memphis. The name Marquette doesn't sell itself to 16- and 17-year-old kids.

Mike Deane was a great Xs and Os coach who sent Marquette basketball on a downward sprial. Tom Crean had dubious coaching skills, but brought in players good enough for five NCAA appearances the past seven years.
Pretty simple to grasp, one would think.

Pakuni -- I'm serious here. Are you happy with this hire or are you just hoping for the best?

[Pakuni]

My biggest concern is that Buzz may have a great reputation as a recruiter, but I don't know if that means he'll be a great recruiter for Marquette.  His reputation is built on getting kids from Texas.  Texas kids going to Texas A&M is a lot different than Texas kids going to Marquette.  He got commitments from Otule, Fulce and E.Williams, but they haven't enrolled yet and we'll see how they eventually work out.  

How is getting kids from Texas significantly different from getting kids from Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, etc.?
Williams got kids from Texas because that's where he was from, that's where he had his contacts, that's where he was working. I don't doubt that it may take a little time for him to build up similar contacts and relationships up here. It wouldn't have been much different for most coaches. But once he establishes those ties, the recruiting process and one's ability/inability to sell kids on your program is no different. We're talking Texas and the Midwest, not Texas and Pakistan.

[MarquetteFan94]

The last 8 days have been surreal.  I honestly think anyone "happy" with this hire is trying to convince themselves to stay positive....there is NO logical way to support this decision....none.  Buzz is not qualified to be the head coach of this team.  The fact that we're hoping for the best is so sad given where this program was 9 days ago.

This is by no means a personal attack on Buzz, I actually liked the way he handled himself at the PC yesterday....but you can't honestly feel good about this.  I personally feel awful....I'm hoping for a good season next year with a potential NCAA bid...but looking 2 years out when James, Matthews, Burke and McNeal are gone....without Taylor, Williams, Mbakwe.....ouch.  We're looking at our first sub .500 team in sometime.

[MarquetteFan94]

The last 8 days have been surreal.  I honestly think anyone "happy" with this hire is trying to convince themselves to stay positive....there is NO logical way to support this decision....none.  Buzz is not qualified to be the head coach of this team.  The fact that we're hoping for the best is so sad given where this program was 9 days ago.

This is by no means a personal attack on Buzz, I actually liked the way he handled himself at the PC yesterday....but you can't honestly feel good about this.  I personally feel awful....I'm hoping for a good season next year with a potential NCAA bid...but looking 2 years out when James, Matthews, Burke and McNeal are gone....without Taylor, Williams, Mbakwe.....ouch.  We're looking at our first sub .500 team in sometime.

Bruce Weber and Jim Les both would've come with those relationships and contacts....why do we need to completely rebuild and let some guy learn on the job?

[Litehouse]

Kids from Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan aren't living through their first harsh winter 1,000 miles from home.  I love it here, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

[MarquetteVol]

PRN, would you rather have Buzz or Crean?

[Pakuni]

Pakuni -- I'm serious here. Are you happy with this hire or are you just hoping for the best?

I'm OK with the hire AND I'm hoping for the best.
Buzz wasn't my first choice. Or my second, third, fourth or maybe even fifth choice.
But neither do I believe he is the ruination of Marquette basketball and I do understand, if not totally agree, with why the administration settled on him. It's a risky hire, but I don't believe any significantly more so than some of the guys MU could have chosen.
I know you're a big fan of Lowery. He was in my first top four list (you can go check it).  But Lowery has never recruited above the mid-major level and only one of the players he's brought to SIU since taking over has had much of a hand in their success. So, isn't he also a risk? I think so.
Buzz, on the other hand, has recruited at and against major-level programs and landed impact players, at least at A&M.
I imagine we could find some of the same risks with the other willing candidates out there (willing, IMO, excludes the guys who said 'No').

[RJax55]

Stop starting new threads that will only turn into one big negative discussion.  There are already plenty up.  Thank you.

Co-signed.

PRN - Look I hate this hire as much as you do. I think MU made a huge mistake and I'm very worried about the future of MU basketball. But ...

Please stop hijacking threads and posting the same stuff over and over again. Everybody understands your point of view, it doesn't need to be rehashed hundreds of times each day... You're becoming Murf.

[Pakuni]

Kids from Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan aren't living through their first harsh winter 1,000 miles from home.  I love it here, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Yep.
So, wouldn't that make it easier for Buzz to bring Midwestern kids to MU than Texas kids?
I mean, if he can convince kids from Houston and Plano to come to Milwaukee, you would think he could land a kid or two from Chicago and Detroit.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

PRN, would you rather have Buzz or Crean?

Crean quit, he is therefore not an option. I couldn't stand him, but he did good things and was a good hire.

When he left, we had an opportunity to make a statement regarding our basketball program. The statement was: "We don't know what we're doing."

I stand by my statement that this is the worst hire in the past 40 years. Bob Dukiet had a WAY better resume.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Stop starting new threads that will only turn into one big negative discussion.  There are already plenty up.  Thank you.

Co-signed.

PRN - Look I hate this hire as much as you do. I think MU made a huge mistake and I'm very worried about the future of MU basketball. But ...

Please stop hijacking threads and posting the same stuff over and over again. Everybody understands your point of view, it doesn't need to be rehashed hundreds of times each day... You're becoming Murf.

I didn't hijack this thread! I started it!

[MarquetteFan94]

Kids from Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan aren't living through their first harsh winter 1,000 miles from home.  I love it here, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Yep.
So, wouldn't that make it easier for Buzz to bring Midwestern kids to MU than Texas kids?
I mean, if he can convince kids from Houston and Plano to come to Milwaukee, you would think he could land a kid or two from Chicago and Detroit.

Buzz has spent several years in TX....it takes time to build relationships with HS school coaches, build a solid reputation etc....we have relied on the midwest for a long-time....we need an assistant that has strong existing relationships in IL (Chicago), WI and MI or we are in serious trouble.

[Litehouse]

Kids from Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan aren't living through their first harsh winter 1,000 miles from home.  I love it here, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Yep.
So, wouldn't that make it easier for Buzz to bring Midwestern kids to MU than Texas kids?
I mean, if he can convince kids from Houston and Plano to come to Milwaukee, you would think he could land a kid or two from Chicago and Detroit.

That's a good point and I hope you're right.  But Buzz hasn't proven an ability to do that yet, and I'd prefer not to hand over our top 25 basketball program to someone based on "you would think".  I'm hoping we've got a hidden gem here with Buzz, but this move is definitely a gamble.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

Pakuni -- I'm serious here. Are you happy with this hire or are you just hoping for the best?

I'm OK with the hire AND I'm hoping for the best.
Buzz wasn't my first choice. Or my second, third, fourth or maybe even fifth choice.
But neither do I believe he is the ruination of Marquette basketball and I do understand, if not totally agree, with why the administration settled on him. It's a risky hire, but I don't believe any significantly more so than some of the guys MU could have chosen.
I know you're a big fan of Lowery. He was in my first top four list (you can go check it).  But Lowery has never recruited above the mid-major level and only one of the players he's brought to SIU since taking over has had much of a hand in their success. So, isn't he also a risk? I think so.
Buzz, on the other hand, has recruited at and against major-level programs and landed impact players, at least at A&M.
I imagine we could find some of the same risks with the other willing candidates out there (willing, IMO, excludes the guys who said 'No').

You write the bolded just as Lowery is adding Illinois' Mr. Basketball to his best recruiting class at SIU.

He can find players. And, he can find them in Illinois which seems to me to be a little more logical then bringing a multitude of kids up from Texas.

[MarquetteVol]

Crean quit, he is therefore not an option. I couldn't stand him, but he did good things and was a good hire.

When he left, we had an opportunity to make a statement regarding our basketball program. The statement was: "We don't know what we're doing."

I stand by my statement that this is the worst hire in the past 40 years. Bob Dukiet had a WAY better resume.

Way to duck the question. Anyways, I don't disagree with what you said. However, this is exactly why I feared, and not eagerly anticipated, Crean leaving the program. Regardless of whether Crean stumped for Buzz or the administration made the decision on their own, I've seen little evidence to suggest we should give any trust to the decision-makers at our fine university.

It just seems that you and 4everwarriors were quite insistent on the fact that the program would be in much better shape without Tom Crean. My point is this is simply not the case. I supported Crean, because I liked the results on the floor. I liked that he recruited quality individuals that would not make headlines off the basketball court. And, because he was the best coach during my 10+ years of rooting for the program.

Others seemed to believe that if we needed to hire a head coach, top-level candidates would be lining up outside the Al begging for the opportunity. While it pains me to see that is not the case, it does not surprise me.

Also, I know there was some thought on this board that Crean should have been canned if lost in the first round this year. Can you imagine who would have been interested in this job if Crean had been fired? Even Buzz might have been smart enough to walk away.

By the way, I'm completely stunned to hear you could not stand Crean.

[MarquetteVol]

You write the bolded just as Lowery is adding Illinois' Mr. Basketball to his best recruiting class at SIU.

He can find players. And, he can find them in Illinois which seems to me to be a little more logical then bringing a multitude of kids up from Texas.

The problem is whether or not Lowery could attract kids that would meet our academic standards. SIU has been Juco U since Bruce Weber's tenure, and it's not exactly the Harvard of the midwest.

[bs4173]

You write the bolded just as Lowery is adding Illinois' Mr. Basketball to his best recruiting class at SIU.

He can find players. And, he can find them in Illinois which seems to me to be a little more logical then bringing a multitude of kids up from Texas.

Good point, Vol. I don't buy this whole "recruit from places other than Texas" bit that everybody keeps spewing out. First, Buzz has been in the South for his entire career, so it makes sense that he uses those Texas connections wisely. Second, Texas has tons of prep talent. Third, I'm damn near positive that he'll start recruiting locally--if he hasn't already. Lastly, if he can recruit these kids from Texas to come up to MU so well, then I'm sure he won't have any problems recruiting Midwestern guys. Also, I believe he was instrumental in getting TT from New Jersey (whether TT comes is a diff story, but the point remains the same).

Who cares if they come from Texas, Illinois or Mongolia?! The logical thing is recruiting kids that can play. If they're all from Texas and it works out favorably, then buy me a cowboy hat.