[Cracked Sidewalks] Remaking the Marquette roster

[CrackedSidewalksSays]

Remaking the Marquette roster

Written by: NY Warrior

Building on our entry from last week about the enviable trajectory of Marquette hoops, today we'll look at recruiting -- and why the 2008 recruiting class offers an indication that Tom Crean is changing his approach to roster building.

The present roster, long on guards and short on skills at every other position,  quickly established MU as an upper echelon Big East program.  The formula is working but has its limitations, namely, the lack of productivity at non-backcourt positions.   The unbalanced roster, while successful in putting a more than competitive team on the floor in the Big East, is not enough to break through to an elite level nationally.

The incoming class of 2008 might just change things for the better.  Rather than overloading at one position or signing players with similar skills in the same class,  the incoming talent 2008 -- combo guard Tyshawn Taylor, combo forward Joseph Fulce, center Chris Otule, and two-guard/swingman Nick Williams -- collectively can cover every position on the floor, and per scouting reports offer a range of complimentary skills.

This group is a solid start on the journey to change the character of the roster which will allow MU to better compete for a Big East title, to get back to the Final Four, and to mitigate the annual cycle of off-season roster attrition (which, this year, could involve James and/or McNeal playing the game for a living next season).

As an aside, each of these players comes from winning programs - an underrated aspect of Crean's recruiting.  Nick Williams will arrive on campus as the Alabama 6A player of the year, a two-time Final Four participant and a state champion.  6'10" Chris Otule will arrive as a guy who tripled his scoring average year to year, led his team to 24 wins and a first-ever playoff birth under the tutelage of legendary coach Ronnie Courtney.  Tyshawn Taylor emerged as a go-to-guy on the nation's best high school team, the 32-0 St. Anthony's Friars.  Finally, Joseph Fulce put up ridiculous numbers down at  Tyler JC, leading his team to a national ranking all season long.

Building on the baseline of the balanced 2008 class, the 2009 group becomes the most critical class for Tom Crean since signing the Three Amigos.  To date, Crean has not delivered strong recruiting classes in succession. One very good class is typically followed by a group that includes one productive starter and a few role players or worse (ie: Hayward, Acker, Cubillan and Blackledge following the Three Amigos), leaving the program vulnerable in the face of unexpected attrition or injury. To climb to the top of the Big East and beyond, MU needs to refill the stable with so-called studs more regularly.

A quick look at the MUScoop scholarship table reveals that the upper classmen on the 2009-2010 roster will be predominantly role players.  Simply put, the 2009 freshman class is the difference between taking the program to another level, or continuing to cycle up and down as a productive class graduates, leaving behind a modestly talented roster.

At this point, Crean is off to a good start with the 2009 group. By securing a verbal from 6'7" forward Erik Williams (Cy Springs, TX), Marquette has its small forward of the future - always a position of need in the Crean era.   Inking a productive big man such as 6'10" Kyle Rowley (Lake Forest Academy, IL) to go along with the highly coveted do-everything 6'7" Jamil Wilson from Racine, and a true point guard like Johnny Lacy (Milwaukee, Bay View) would complete a roster transformation that would create a higher ceiling for the program.  

In addition, even though the 2008-2009 roster is already over-subscribed by one scholarship, Crean is still recruiting talent for this fall, fueling speculation that the current roster will undergo a rather substantial amount of additional attrition. Fox Sports is reporting that MU is in the top three (along with Ohio State and UVa) for former Indiana commit, point guard Terrell Holloway.  Also, MU is pursuing 6'11" center Luka Mirkovic from La Lumiere School in La Porte, Ind. Mirkovic also is considering DePaul and Louisville.

We'll watch this space closely -- more roster churn appears to be on the way.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/03/remaking-marquette-roster.html

[1990Warrior]

The big question is, how many minutes do next years freshman get and how big of an impact does that translate into? Obviously, this depends upon whether James/McSteal stay/go.  If they both stay, which I consider most likely, then the two most talented guys (TT and Williams) get 5-7 min apiece.  Fulce could get 10 min.  That leaves O'tule who could get up to 25 minutes a game if he is good which is the biggest question in my mind.  Even if he is good, is he better than Barro was with his 4 years of experience.  The overall lack of minutes really makes me wonder how much of an impact these freshmen will have and if we will be any better off next year than we were this year.

[mviale]

I truly dont believe there was a change in philosophy - Crean gets the best available and I would leave it at that.  Barro, Burke, Mbakwe and Hayward were legitimate front court players.  We lost to Stanford by 1 pt on a circus shot in OT. 

[DegenerateDish]

Maybe I just haven't been paying attention closely enough, but I'm surprised this hasn't been made a bigger deal about.

Not just the overcommittment by one, but the fact that Crean is looking at adding an additional offer. I don't like to speculate on roster make overs, but obviously something is definitive when it comes to someone leaving. Whether it be James declaring and staying in (which would be a mistake in my opinion) or someone transfering, there has to be a move (or it sounds like two) coming soon.

[CTWarrior]

Barro, Burke, Mbakwe and Hayward were legitimate front court players.  We lost to Stanford by 1 pt on a circus shot in OT. 

We lost to Stanford by 1 in OT primarily because those "legitimate front court players" were outscored by 30 points by their counterparts (I counted Fitzgerald as a 4/5 for us to make the margin less terrible) on Stanford.  Just because our tremendous guards almost overcame the shortfall doesn't magically make our front court legit.

[mviale]

We outrebounded Stanford 38-31 (15-8 on offense).  How do you explain that one?  Big men made opportunities for our guards.

[mwbauer7]

Stupid question- if one of the incomming recruits red shirts, does that take care of the overcommitment of scholarships problem?

[CTWarrior]

We outrebounded Stanford 38-31 (15-8 on offense).  How do you explain that one?  Big men made opportunities for our guards.

Our guards (James, McNeal, Matthews and Acker) outrebounded their guards by 13, and had more than half of our rebounds!  Our forwards and centers were outrebounded by their forwards and centers by 6!  That's how I would explain it.

I'll say it again.  Our guards went into every game against a good team knowing they had to provide a Herculean effort if we were going to win.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Stupid question- if one of the incomming recruits red shirts, does that take care of the overcommitment of scholarships problem?

No

[mviale]

I disagree - I think the roster played to the strengths of the 3 amigos and we could have beaten anyone this year.  We will miss Barro next year.  Guards getting rebounds - have you heard of boxing out and taking out the big guy?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Barro, Burke, Mbakwe and Hayward were legitimate front court players.  We lost to Stanford by 1 pt on a circus shot in OT. 

We lost to Stanford by 1 in OT primarily because those "legitimate front court players" were outscored by 30 points by their counterparts (I counted Fitzgerald as a 4/5 for us to make the margin less terrible) on Stanford.  Just because our tremendous guards almost overcame the shortfall doesn't magically make our front court legit.

Very true, in that game against two very special big men.  But in most of our games against big teams, we were not dominated in that fashion at the front line, or our domination at the guard play more then overcame it.

[downtown85]

I disagree - I think the roster played to the strengths of the 3 amigos and we could have beaten anyone this year.  We will miss Barro next year.  Guards getting rebounds - have you heard of boxing out and taking out the big guy?

I agree we could have beaten anyone this year, however we might still be playing if one of the Lopez boys or any other legit PF or C were suiting up in an MU uniform. Great guards are important, however great guards plus balance is more important for making the push deep into March.

I do not think we will miss Barro.  Come March next season, Burke, Mbakwe and the new guy will turn out to be much, much better than Barro, Burke, and Blackledge. i guarantee it (if they remain healthy).

[Big Papi]

Maybe I just haven't been paying attention closely enough, but I'm surprised this hasn't been made a bigger deal about.

Not just the overcommittment by one, but the fact that Crean is looking at adding an additional offer. I don't like to speculate on roster make overs, but obviously something is definitive when it comes to someone leaving. Whether it be James declaring and staying in (which would be a mistake in my opinion) or someone transfering, there has to be a move (or it sounds like two) coming soon.

Looks like both Dom and McNeal are looking into going pro this year plus I guess there is also a chance that someone either transfers or an incoming recruit doesn't make the grades.  Nothing wrong with looking at all of our options.  And no sense in making a big deal out of it since everyone here is out of the loop on what is going on.  We can make a big deal about it when something actually happens.

[mwbauer7]

Stupid question- if one of the incomming recruits red shirts, does that take care of the overcommitment of scholarships problem?

No

Thanks Chicos

[mu03eng]

Maybe I just haven't been paying attention closely enough, but I'm surprised this hasn't been made a bigger deal about.

Not just the overcommittment by one, but the fact that Crean is looking at adding an additional offer. I don't like to speculate on roster make overs, but obviously something is definitive when it comes to someone leaving. Whether it be James declaring and staying in (which would be a mistake in my opinion) or someone transfering, there has to be a move (or it sounds like two) coming soon.

Looks like both Dom and McNeal are looking into going pro this year plus I guess there is also a chance that someone either transfers or an incoming recruit doesn't make the grades.  Nothing wrong with looking at all of our options.  And no sense in making a big deal out of it since everyone here is out of the loop on what is going on.  We can make a big deal about it when something actually happens.

Its my understanding that DJ can't put his name out and pull it out this year.  I was told that is a one shot deal....if he does put his name in the draft process this time he has to go for sure.  Also I could see McSteal testing the waters but I don't see him coming out.  I think it much more likely that we have one of the bench players transfer out making room for the extra scholie.

[mviale]

I hope you are right - However, I dont see Mbakwe and Burke even at Barro's level. We need to remember that Barro could have good games and be a difference maker:
 
Pitt 14/12
Cincy 19/10
Providence 14/9

[DegenerateDish]

The reason I think it's a big deal is because something is obviously going to happen. It'll take care of itself in the end, I guess I'm just impatient and would rather know sooner rather than later.

Obviously McNeal and James will test the draft process, as they should. I just wonder if it's a foregone conclusion one or both are going pro, or if someone is confirmed to be transferring. Seems like there's almost always someone who has an idea ahead of time and reports on it. Just seems awfully quiet this time (for better or worse).

[harryp]

I don't think I know a huge amount about talent, but when I watch Steffan Curry and compare him to James and McNeal, I don't think there is any comparison.

[Doctor V]

The reason I think it's a big deal is because something is obviously going to happen. It'll take care of itself in the end, I guess I'm just impatient and would rather know sooner rather than later.

Obviously McNeal and James will test the draft process, as they should. I just wonder if it's a foregone conclusion one or both are going pro, or if someone is confirmed to be transferring. Seems like there's almost always someone who has an idea ahead of time and reports on it. Just seems awfully quiet this time (for better or worse).

i dont think its that obvious that they will test the process. i loved that james said that him and jerel will make a decision together- it shows a strong commitment to ones teammate. that said, i think if mcneal decides to test the waters, which id call a toss-up right now, james does once again as well. i think jerel will come back unless hes guaranteed a 1st rd pick- not likely- and DJ either makes a team as a 2nd round pick or plays in europe.

if jerel decides to not test i think DJ decides the same, and they both stay

can we please get option two

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't think I know a huge amount about talent, but when I watch Steffan Curry and compare him to James and McNeal, I don't think there is any comparison.

And remember, Curry was a 2 star recruit offered by ONE HIGH MAJOR SCHOOL.....Va. Tech, where his dad played.

This is another example why recruiting rankings outside the top 40 or 50 players are a crap shoot. 

[MUDPT]

Being from NW Indiana, I have only heard of La Lumeire in passing.  No competition what so ever at the high school level.  I'm not sure why anybody would go there to play basketball.

[Pardner]

[
And remember, Curry was a 2 star recruit offered by ONE HIGH MAJOR SCHOOL.....Va. Tech, where his dad played.

This is another example why recruiting rankings outside the top 40 or 50 players are a crap shoot. 

Curry's quick release is phenomenal whether driving or from the perimeter.  His ability to get his shot off in the weave makes everyone around him so much better.  No one can get a bead on him for positioning or a block.  We could learn a bit from this (DJ and JM drive/bangs to the hoop, our shooters holding the ball too long from treyland).  I don't know how you can teach this, though, and I doubt it is on any rating/scouting criteria sheet.  More so, his teammates never seem out of position for a pass or rebound.  Amazing talent.  Well coached.

[mviale]

This kid is special - I see Reggie miller type skills

[Chili]

This kid is special - I see Reggie miller type skills

being 6-1.5 and 165 is going to be an issue. miller was 6-6 or 6-7.

[77ncaachamps]

Barro, Burke, Mbakwe and Hayward were legitimate front court players.  We lost to Stanford by 1 pt on a circus shot in OT. 

We lost to Stanford by 1 in OT primarily because those "legitimate front court players" were outscored by 30 points by their counterparts (I counted Fitzgerald as a 4/5 for us to make the margin less terrible) on Stanford.  Just because our tremendous guards almost overcame the shortfall doesn't magically make our front court legit.

W-O-R-D.