2008 Team vs. 2002 Team

[jmayer1]

I see some similiarities between these teams:

Guards

02 - Henry, Wade, Diener

08 - James, McNeal, Cubillan

Obviosuly nobody on this year's team is in the same class as Wade and Henry was underrated.  James and McNeal can be tenacious on D and in the lane but can also make some head-scratching decisions.  The 02 team probably had a better group.

Forwards

02 - Blankson, Namaka

08 - Hayward, Matthews

Blanskon and Namaka were good players but Matthews and Hayward have the ability to step out and extend the defense that those guys did not or would not.

Center

02 - Merritt

08 - Barro

Neither was/is a dominant big man and both tended to drop/fumble quite a few passses; but both could also have their moments.

Bench

02 - Diggs, Harris, Sanders, Townsend

08 - Fitz, Burke, Mbakwe, Acker

Neither group is awe inspiring.  Hopefully Mbakwe's rebounding and defense can have somewhat of an impact down the stretch.

Coach

Tan Tommy is still here drinking his Diet Pepsis.  However, I would tend to believe the 6 years has made a difference and that he has become a better coach than he was then.

Overall

Tough to give either team an edge.  The 08 team probably has more depth but the 02 team had a dominant go-to guy in Wade who could carry the half-court offense.  As everyone knows, the 02 team lost in the first round of the NCAA to 12 seed Tulsa.  Hopefully the same fate does not await this year's team.

Which team do you think is better?

[AlumKCof93]

I think the 02 team was definitely better.  Henry struggled some earlier in his career, but was very good his senior season.  Though a freshman, Diener was awfully tough even then and hit some big shots.  Nnamaka was a good solid player and Merritt, while very frustrating, was better than Barro.  I think the 02 team had better balance, a superstar, and great leadership.  It was a terrible loss to Tulsa - we would have had Kentucky in the 2nd round.

[WashDCWarrior]

I'd take the '02 team in a head-to head, but I think the comparison's pretty good.  Even in '02, I think Wade was so much better than anyone on this year's squad.

Completely agree about Crean progressing as a coach over that time.  Even in '03, he made some descisions that just left me scratching my head.  Now that very seldomly occurs.

[TallTitan34]

Nice comparsion!  I'd have to give the 02' team a slight edge but it is close.

Hopefully the 08' version will fare a little better in the NCAA's than the 02' team did.

[donsartonelkatdav]

The 2002 squad had a much higher basketball IQ.

[BrewCity83]

The 2008 squad has more team quickness and athleticism.  And more depth at guard.

The 2002 squad had more rebounders and frontcourt defenders.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I think the talent level on that 2002 team as the best Crean has had at MU. That Tulsa game was a heartbreaker. That was actually the year I thought we could make some noise in the tournament...the next year was just a shocker.

There was some talk of that team before our game at Cincy, because one of their games was on ESPN Classic.

I wonder if SJS thinks our talent level and depth has improved since then. We'll have to ask him when his ambien wears off.

[RJax55]

The '02 team was not Crean's most talented team. The '03 version was much better due to the additions of Jackson and Novak. Jackson was a 2nd team All-CUSA selection and Novak was CUSA's 6th Man of the Year.

The '03 team featured 3 future NBA players, along with the best big man of the Crean era.

[reesiecup210]

The 2002 squad had a much higher basketball IQ.

Ding ding ding!

[Avenue Commons]

I think the talent level on that 2002 team as the best Crean has had at MU. That Tulsa game was a heartbreaker. That was actually the year I thought we could make some noise in the tournament...the next year was just a shocker.

There was some talk of that team before our game at Cincy, because one of their games was on ESPN Classic.

I wonder if SJS thinks our talent level and depth has improved since then. We'll have to ask him when his ambien wears off.

I agree. The 2002 had more talent than the 2003 team. Cordell Henry was a great college PG, and Ordartey Blankson was a fantastic talent. I bet a day doesn't go by that Blankson doesn't think "what if" about what would have happened in 2003 if he stayed.

[CTWarrior]

I think the 02 had much more talent.  The three guards were tremendous and the team overall had much more balance.  The guards were guards and the forwards were forwards.  Now the guards are guards and the forwards are guards.

Though I think the parts were better in 02, I think the whole is better in 08.  The current team is better coached and plays better together as a team.  Henry used to take over from time to time and that wasn't necessarily a good thing when better options were available.  All those guards we have now allow us to play an attacking defensive style that makes up for the lesser talent.

I think the 03 team obviously had the best talent, because Novak and Jackson combined to be an improvement over Blankson and Nnamaka, and Wade and Diener improved and played so many minutes so well that you didn't miss Henry at all.  Plus guys like Bradley and Chapman could give you the occasional spark off the bench.

[jmayer1]

Between 02 and 03 I think the talent boils down to:

Henry, Blankson, 1st year Diener and Wade

vs.

2nd year Diener & Wade, RJax, and Novak

I think I would take the 03 group over the 02 group talentwise, but it is close. 

Teamwise, I would take 03 no questions asked because having a traditional post presence was HUGE.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Agree...'03 better than '02....proven on the court as well....all regular season and in the post season.

A more mature Wade, more mature Diener, RJAX as a senior and a great shooter in Novak are better than a Freshman Diener, a first year Wade, a decent Nnmaka and a good Henry.  I don't think it's really that close and the results on the court seem to bear it out.

We also played a MUCH tougher schedule in '03 then "02.  39th schedule vs 101st schedule, yet still go more wins, won the regular season title, beat the Big Ten champ, the ACC champ, Big East champ, etc

[bilsu]

08 team has played a much tougher schedule and may be better prepared for the NCAA tournament.

[MUCam]

In watching the old 2002 Cinncy game, I was amazed at home much more post play we got out of our bigs. Harris was actually a decent post player with decent post up ability. We have none of that now. We rarely even try to feed the post. Much different mentality.

Offensively we ran much crisper offensive sets. One thing I noticed is that there was less weaving and pro-style offense back in 2002. It was much simpler, but run much more effectively. I will note that, even with Wade being as great as he was, out back court (and SF) athleticism is much greater overall nowadays.

[MUfan12]

Speaking of Cincy in 2002- Does anyone have a copy of the home game that year on DVD? The one where we broke their 20 game winning streak.

I look to that game as the one that really springboarded MU on that two year run, and I'd love to have a copy of it.

[RawdogDX]

The '02 team was not Crean's most talented team. The '03 version was much better due to the additions of Jackson and Novak. Jackson was a 2nd team All-CUSA selection and Novak was CUSA's 6th Man of the Year.

The '03 team featured 3 future NBA players, along with the best big man of the Crean era.

I don't think anyone is agruing with that.  This post is about this year vs. 02.

I'm going to disagree with most of you and say this year would beat '02.  Think about the teams that give us trouble.  '02 mu would not be one of them. 
What would henry be able to do against DJ's D?  Not much.  And mcNeil would be able to at least slow down the 02 wade.  As for merritt, the man had one move and was a black hole.  Our team would be fast enough to provide help and shut him down, he'd probably go 2 for 9 against us.  Lazar would be able to put up numbers against odb so that would be a wash at worst.
Also I want to point out that the player comparison was done with david listed as a guard.  Throw him down on the bench slot and you will start to realize how much deaper this team is.

[RJax55]

The '02 team was not Crean's most talented team. The '03 version was much better due to the additions of Jackson and Novak. Jackson was a 2nd team All-CUSA selection and Novak was CUSA's 6th Man of the Year.

The '03 team featured 3 future NBA players, along with the best big man of the Crean era.

I don't think anyone is agruing with that.  This post is about this year vs. 02.

I'm going to disagree with most of you and say this year would beat '02.  Think about the teams that give us trouble.  '02 mu would not be one of them. 
What would henry be able to do against DJ's D?  Not much.  And mcNeil would be able to at least slow down the 02 wade.  As for merritt, the man had one move and was a black hole.  Our team would be fast enough to provide help and shut him down, he'd probably go 2 for 9 against us.  Lazar would be able to put up numbers against odb so that would be a wash at worst.
Also I want to point out that the player comparison was done with david listed as a guard.  Throw him down on the bench slot and you will start to realize how much deaper this team is.

I was responding to PRN post that he thought the '02 team was Crean's most talented team.

In terms of this year's team to '02, I agree with you that the current team is slightly better.

[mugrad99]

I'd want Crean to be coaching the 02 team, so the 08 team would win

that's just a joke....

[RawdogDX]

The '02 team was not Crean's most talented team. The '03 version was much better due to the additions of Jackson and Novak. Jackson was a 2nd team All-CUSA selection and Novak was CUSA's 6th Man of the Year.

The '03 team featured 3 future NBA players, along with the best big man of the Crean era.

I don't think anyone is auguring with that.  This post is about this year vs. 02.

I'm going to disagree with most of you and say this year would beat '02.  Think about the teams that give us trouble.  '02 mu would not be one of them. 
What would henry be able to do against DJ's D?  Not much.  And mcNeil would be able to at least slow down the 02 wade.  As for merritt, the man had one move and was a black hole.  Our team would be fast enough to provide help and shut him down, he'd probably go 2 for 9 against us.  Lazar would be able to put up numbers against odb so that would be a wash at worst.
Also I want to point out that the player comparison was done with david listed as a guard.  Throw him down on the bench slot and you will start to realize how much deaper this team is.

I was responding to PRN post that he thought the '02 team was Crean's most talented team.

In terms of this year's team to '02, I agree with you that the current team is slightly better.

Sorry about that.  I should have known he'd be responsible for changing the topic.

PRN, seriously?  You would put 02 ahead of 03?  What about robert jackson?  Are you kidding me.  You complain about how we don't have any big men and then you say that the one year we had a good one and it made us go from a first round loss to a final four wasn't our best year?  DOn't you think that is a little inconsistent with what has been your recruiting mantra for the last 2 years?

not to mention an additional year of maturity for wade and TD and the addition of novak? 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The '02 team was not Crean's most talented team. The '03 version was much better due to the additions of Jackson and Novak. Jackson was a 2nd team All-CUSA selection and Novak was CUSA's 6th Man of the Year.

The '03 team featured 3 future NBA players, along with the best big man of the Crean era.

I don't think anyone is auguring with that.  This post is about this year vs. 02.

I'm going to disagree with most of you and say this year would beat '02.  Think about the teams that give us trouble.  '02 mu would not be one of them. 
What would henry be able to do against DJ's D?  Not much.  And mcNeil would be able to at least slow down the 02 wade.  As for merritt, the man had one move and was a black hole.  Our team would be fast enough to provide help and shut him down, he'd probably go 2 for 9 against us.  Lazar would be able to put up numbers against odb so that would be a wash at worst.
Also I want to point out that the player comparison was done with david listed as a guard.  Throw him down on the bench slot and you will start to realize how much deaper this team is.

I was responding to PRN post that he thought the '02 team was Crean's most talented team.

In terms of this year's team to '02, I agree with you that the current team is slightly better.

Sorry about that.  I should have known he'd be responsible for changing the topic.

PRN, seriously?  You would put 02 ahead of 03?  What about robert jackson?  Are you kidding me.  You complain about how we don't have any big men and then you say that the one year we had a good one and it made us go from a first round loss to a final four wasn't our best year?  DOn't you think that is a little inconsistent with what has been your recruiting mantra for the last 2 years?

not to mention an additional year of maturity for wade and TD and the addition of novak? 

Nope...I'm not kidding. And I have rarely complained about our lack of big men. You're confusing me with somebody else. I really like Barro and I think Burke is servicable. Dwight had a great game against Georgetown.

But the fact is, the 2002 team had several more than servicable big men...Nnamaka, Merritt, Harris, Sanders with Blankson at small forward. In fact, Merritt was better his junior year than his senior year. From 1 to 12 that team had the most talented of any of Crean's teams. Jackson was great...better than all those other guys. But collectively the other group was better. That's just what I think.

Keep in mind, although there are many posters who have fallen in love with Townsend since he's graduated (likely because he was a member of a FF team), he was not a very good basketball player and he was a starter on the 2003 team. He couldn't even get on the floor in 2002 (or 2004, for that matter).

[RawdogDX]

The '02 team was not Crean's most talented team. The '03 version was much better due to the additions of Jackson and Novak. Jackson was a 2nd team All-CUSA selection and Novak was CUSA's 6th Man of the Year.

The '03 team featured 3 future NBA players, along with the best big man of the Crean era.

I don't think anyone is auguring with that.  This post is about this year vs. 02.

I'm going to disagree with most of you and say this year would beat '02.  Think about the teams that give us trouble.  '02 mu would not be one of them. 
What would henry be able to do against DJ's D?  Not much.  And mcNeil would be able to at least slow down the 02 wade.  As for merritt, the man had one move and was a black hole.  Our team would be fast enough to provide help and shut him down, he'd probably go 2 for 9 against us.  Lazar would be able to put up numbers against odb so that would be a wash at worst.
Also I want to point out that the player comparison was done with david listed as a guard.  Throw him down on the bench slot and you will start to realize how much deaper this team is.

I was responding to PRN post that he thought the '02 team was Crean's most talented team.

In terms of this year's team to '02, I agree with you that the current team is slightly better.

Sorry about that.  I should have known he'd be responsible for changing the topic.

PRN, seriously?  You would put 02 ahead of 03?  What about robert jackson?  Are you kidding me.  You complain about how we don't have any big men and then you say that the one year we had a good one and it made us go from a first round loss to a final four wasn't our best year?  DOn't you think that is a little inconsistent with what has been your recruiting mantra for the last 2 years?

not to mention an additional year of maturity for wade and TD and the addition of novak? 

Nope...I'm not kidding. And I have rarely complained about our lack of big men. You're confusing me with somebody else. I really like Barro and I think Burke is servicable. Dwight had a great game against Georgetown.

But the fact is, the 2002 team had several more than servicable big men...Nnamaka, Merritt, Harris, Sanders with Blankson at small forward. In fact, Merritt was better his junior year than his senior year. From 1 to 12 that team had the most talented of any of Crean's teams. Jackson was great...better than all those other guys. But collectively the other group was better. That's just what I think.

Keep in mind, although there are many posters who have fallen in love with Townsend since he's graduated (likely because he was a member of a FF team), he was not a very good basketball player and he was a starter on the 2003 team. He couldn't even get on the floor in 2002 (or 2004, for that matter).

really?  I thought you always complained about recruiting classes and lack of good big men was always what you brought up.

but regardless.  Robert jackson alone made that team better.  Not to mention an additional year for deiner, wade and novak.  Merritt's role was reduced but i don't see how that matters.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I honestly don't see how anyone can put '02 ahead of '03.


'03 Had a better Wade, more seasoned Wade
'03 Had a better Diener, more seasoned Diener
'03 Had Robert Jackson as a senior
'03 Had Steve Novak
'03 Had Scott Merritt's best season
'03 Had a team that won a regular season championship and went to the Final Four, beat the Big East, Big Ten, ACC champions.  Played a top 40 schedule (before NCAA tournament games are factored in) and won more games then the '02 team that played a 100 schedule and lost in the first round of the NCAAs.
'03 Had 3 future NBA players on the team

The only advantage I see in '02 is Blankson really.  I'd take Diener over Henry at the point.  I like Nnamaka but there were other equally good players.  The problem I had with Blankson, although a very nice player, he thought he was some three point shooter and often did things he wasn't supposed to do.

Each to his own, but I think the '03 team is not only better on paper, they proved it during the regular season and the post season.

[Dish]

That '02 tourney game against Tulsa was one of the most frustrating games I've been to in person. That last possession was such a cluster(you know what). My friends and I were going to spend the weekend down there, but we just drove back as soon as the game was over. Still frustrating to this day.

After we battled back, I thought we would have enough at the end to pull that one out. I remember Jon Harris having a great game that day.

We would have played Kentucky in the next round.

[jmayer1]

Also I want to point out that the player comparison was done with david listed as a guard.  Throw him down on the bench slot and you will start to realize how much deaper this team is.

That's true, but I also have Diener listed as a guard and not on the bench.  

I think the teams are very evenly matched.  I think it would come down to the pace and controlling Wade.  If the pace was fast, I would favor this year's team, however if forced to play halfcourt I would take the 02 team.  But if Wade goes off, then all bets are off and I would take the 02 team no matter what type of game.  I think that might be the thing holding this team back is that they don't necessary have that one guy they can always go to during crunchtime, rather they have a plethora of options.