Welp!

[wisblue]

I'm not saying they will be an 11 seed. I'm saying they have plenty of talent to get themselves deep into a second weekend if they reach their potential. A 14 point loss on the road where your star point guard goes -30 or whatever he was, in November, is no indicator of what this team could be. Maybe it's time for them to put their big boy pants on and show it, but I think a lot of us have to do the same as fans. The panic after the first road game of the season as it relates to the season outlook is just silly.

I don't think expressing concerns equals "panic".

[DoctorV]

Yeah, I usually like and agree with Hards Alumni's takes, but I'm not thrilled with declarations that so-and-so athlete "didn't seem to really care." Too subjective, and too based on emotion (vs actual data). And questioning an athlete's character and competitiveness based on, what? A facial expression or something? Seems over the top.

Any thoughts on Damarius? I must be missing something...

Seems like he does pretty well early but Shaka curtails his minutes

[Shooter McGavin]

Any thoughts on Damarius? I must be missing something...

Seems like he does pretty well early but Shaka curtails his minutes

Has a goofy looking three point shot but otherwise played well last night. Not sure why Shaka would be down on him, if he is.

[The Sultan]

I'm not saying they will be an 11 seed. I'm saying they have plenty of talent to get themselves deep into a second weekend if they reach their potential. A 14 point loss on the road where your star point guard goes -30 or whatever he was, in November, is no indicator of what this team could be. Maybe it's time for them to put their big boy pants on and show it, but I think a lot of us have to do the same as fans. The panic after the first road game of the season as it relates to the season outlook is just silly.

I am not panicking. They don't have enough talent to be an Elite 8 team. Laughable thought.

[MU82]

No, but the listing of early road losses seems to be downplaying how ugly last night's game was. Several of those early road losses were preceded by some better games and others were followed by mediocre seasons.

I remember the ugly home loss against Ohio State in Williams' last year that foreshadowed a very disappointing season for a team that started with high expectations. Last night's game exposed some potentially serious weaknesses.

Totally understand.

Optimists can list early road losses that didn't end up short-circuiting an entire season. And pessimists can point to losses that did. And neither take would be wrong.

And I absolutely get the skepticism after last season.

Aside from trolls like Farley who hate MU hoops, we all want the same thing.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think people should temper their expectations for Fru. The guy lost his starting job in March last season.

Technically a true statement, but misleading. True, he came off the bench for the last six games of the season, but the guy who replaced him played about 10 minutes a game less than Fru during that stretch. It would have been a bigger gap but Fru was in heavy foul trouble in three of the games which limited his minutes.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am not panicking. They don't have enough talent to be an Elite 8 team. Laughable thought.

Of course they have enough talent to be an Elite 8 team. A Shaheen Holloway coached St. Peters team had enough talent to be an Elite 8 team. Being an Elite 8 team doesn't require much talent, just getting hot a the right time.

Enough talent to be a top 8 team or a likely Elite 8 team is a completely different question.

[The Sultan]

Of course they have enough talent to be an Elite 8 team. A Shaheen Holloway coached St. Peters team had enough talent to be an Elite 8 team. Being an Elite 8 team doesn't require much talent, just getting hot a the right time.

Enough talent to be a top 8 team or a likely Elite 8 team is a completely different question.

Yes. I guess if the standard is the same as every other team in D1 college basketball, they could get streaky and luck their way there.

But that's not what GE03 is saying. He is claiming this team has tremendous talent that just needs to be reached. But IMO they don't have that talent. There is no indication that is the case.

[Hards Alumni]

Yeah, I usually like and agree with Hards Alumni's takes, but I'm not thrilled with declarations that so-and-so athlete "didn't seem to really care." Too subjective, and too based on emotion (vs actual data). And questioning an athlete's character and competitiveness based on, what? A facial expression or something? Seems over the top.

He stunk out loud on Wednesday. 22 min 1/3 for three points, two rebounds, and two turnovers on four fouls.  I don't expect the guy to be punching walls with anger or anything, but it certainly didn't seem like he has that dog in him.

Also, saying it was a subjective statement is kinda funny considering I directly brought up his stat line.

You don't have to agree with me, and I'm not writing Fru off, but the stats and my observations of him lead me to my conclusion.

[muwarrior69]

Totally understand.

Optimists can list early road losses that didn't end up short-circuiting an entire season. And pessimists can point to losses that did. And neither take would be wrong.

And I absolutely get the skepticism after last season.

Aside from trolls like Farley who hate MU hoops, we all want the same thing.

Absolutely! I just don't want to experience deja vu all over again.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

He stunk out loud on Wednesday. 22 min 1/3 for three points, two rebounds, and two turnovers on four fouls.  I don't expect the guy to be punching walls with anger or anything, but it certainly didn't seem like he has that dog in him.

Also, saying it was a subjective statement is kinda funny considering I directly brought up his stat line.

You don't have to agree with me, and I'm not writing Fru off, but the stats and my observations of him lead me to my conclusion.

Any statements that he might not care based on his demeanor on Wednesday are absolute nonsense.

[Hards Alumni]

Any statements that he might not care based on his demeanor on Wednesday are absolute nonsense.

Did Nigel James seem okay to you?

If you say yes, you might have problems reading people.

You ever see someone just going through the motions?  I have.

[21Jumpstreet]

Did Nigel James seem okay to you?

If you say yes, you might have problems reading people.

You ever see someone just going through the motions?  I have.

I did feel the same way during the game with Nigel and Fru. But, I wonder if their demeanor is more stoic and outwardly even rather than the chest pumping, screaming energy. Sometimes I mistake calm for malaise. I was perplexed by Nigel, too, perhaps he isn't fully fit or under the weather. Can't discount the heightened pressure this year on him and Shaka. I was super disappointed in the lack of consistent effort, and I think we bring at least that on Sunday.

[GoldenEagles03]

I don't think expressing concerns equals "panic".

What else would it be other than panic? We are 3 games into a season. Expressing concerns this deeply just 3 games in is panicking.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes. I guess if the standard is the same as every other team in D1 college basketball, they could get streaky and luck their way there.

But that's not what GE03 is saying. He is claiming this team has tremendous talent that just needs to be reached. But IMO they don't have that talent. There is no indication that is the case.

I don't think it's reasonable to say there's no indication of talent on this team.

The team features three preaeason all-big east players. The elite 8 team that were comparing it against had zero (to be fair not an apples to apples because the old big east was much stronger).

This team started the season ranked 34 in KenPom, the elite 8 team was 32.

This team set a school record for point differential and least points allowed to a D1 opponent in its second game. The elite 8 team squeaked by SE Louisiana in its second game.

This team lost by 14 in its first true road game.  The elite 8 team lost by 33 in its first true road game (though to a likely better opponent).

This team also beat a top 5 Michigan State team in a scrimmage.  Won't count toward resume but can be used to evaluate talent.

If you don't think this team will put it all together that's a defendable position. If you think the elite eight team had more talent that's a defendable position.  But i don't see any way to reasonably state that theres no indication of talent on this team.  We're three games in.

[The Sultan]

I don't think it's reasonable to say there's no indication of talent on this team.

The team features three preaeason all-big east players. The elite 8 team that were comparing it against had zero (to be fair not an apples to apples because the old big east was much stronger).

This team started the season ranked 34 in KenPom, the elite 8 team was 32.

This team set a school record for point differential and least points allowed to a D1 opponent in its second game. The elite 8 team squeaked by SE Louisiana in its second game.

This team lost by 14 in its first true road game.  The elite 8 team lost by 33 in its first true road game (though to a likely better opponent).

This team also beat a top 5 Michigan State team in a scrimmage.  Won't count toward resume but can be used to evaluate talent.

If you don't think this team will put it all together that's a defendable position. If you think the elite eight team had more talent that's a defendable position.  But i don't see any way to reasonably state that theres no indication of talent on this team.  We're three games in.

To get to the Elite 8? Nah.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Did Nigel James seem okay to you?

If you say yes, you might have problems reading people.

You ever see someone just going through the motions?  I have.

I'm not the one with a problem in this instance. 

Nigel wasn't going through the motions.  He wasn't playing well and was pressing. 

If you think you can "read Fru" based on his demeanor and body language for that game, that's delusional.  The hubris is laughable.