Colton Crowdis committed.

[muwarrior69]

Maybe because back end players like Josh Clark are rolling around in $135,000 BMW X5 M competition SUVs with a license plate that says "0.3 GPA".

Maybe that has something to do with it?

I would like to see a photo. If not the vehicle then the plate. Who knows maybe Josh got a great deal with "Clark Bars".

[Small Orange Soda]

He obviously did not.  Caedin's minutes dwindled despite having Ben Gold and Royce Parham as the only other options on the team, he had Sheek signed up for another year, and he went out and got Fru in the portal.  Everything Shaka did in the offseason says you're wrong.  The reality is, we got into the portal game like everyone wanted, and now people are freaking out because the portal game went against us.  Which was always going to happen once you start playing that game.

His minutes dwindled the year before too. He started opening night. The problem is you want to have it both ways: Caedin is bad and won't play so it's okay, but four years of time and resources on a bad player is okay too. Heading into the season with Caedin as our backup center certainly doesn't say I'm wrong.

You guys keep making it about Sheek leaving. I've seen very few people who don't understand why he left or don't understand why we didn't match. That's not the issue at hand. The issue is not replacing him.

[Shooter McGavin]

Because no one is insisting they got crazy money. I very much doubt the third year player who started at center last year was making back of the bench money, though. Point is, if we're worried about overpaying guys, we're already doing that with our backup 5s anyway.

And nobody said they need to get a 'stud 5'. You know that, but replacing 'stud' with 'competent' renders your argument moot.

You keep twisting yourself into knots to defend this. "14th or 15th guy on the roster", "Averaged 8.5 minutes down the stretch", "We can just play other players out of position", "He's not making crazy money". If Tre, Zaide, and Sean leaving says something about how things are run now then Caedin still being around says something too.

He's the longest tenured player on the team. He's not making more than Fru, or Nigel, or Royce. But he's definitely making more than several other guys. It's been a poor use of time and resources. You can brush that off if you want, but it's the truth.

Your third paragraph sums up resignation followed by rationalization perfectly.

It sucks that we are an injury or two away from disaster but hopefully the tight rope won't snap.  The starting five is legit and hopefully Shaka is dead on with his talent evaluation for the rest of them. 

There is a possibility where Hamilton and Clark are serviceable backups and Nash is play maker next year.  The correct play was to hedge the bet. 

The motto should be. Be resigned (nothing you can do about it) but don't rationalize. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Because Shaka thinks Caedin is capable. There ya go!

Why is that you and others refuse to acknowledge that the bigs still available when Sheek got poached may have wanted a starting role and/or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions or make sense with the compensation structure for the roster?

[Small Orange Soda]

Why is that you and others refuse to acknowledge that the bigs still available when Sheek got poached may have wanted a starting role and/or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions or make sense with the compensation structure for the roster?

Because providing an excuse for why they couldn't get a single guy to replace Sheek sounds like a coping mechanism. Shaka said he kicked the tires on some guys, but decided to go with what he had.  I think he did that because while he knows the dropoff from Fru to Caedin is big, it's much bigger than he believes.

And compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions? We already got some of those anyway.

[wadesworld]

Because providing an excuse for why they couldn't get a single guy to replace Sheek sounds like a coping mechanism. Shaka said he kicked the tires on some guys, but decided to go with what he had.  I think he did that because while he knows the dropoff from Fru to Caedin is big, it's much bigger than he believes.

And compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions? We already got some of those anyway.

Like who?  Again, it seems like Shaka changed that.  If he didn't, why did Sean and Tre leave?  Is there a rule that says every player on a roster must receive payment for being on the roster?  What are we paying Josh and Caedin, you seem to know.  It's not a crazy amount, but it's enough to handcuff ourselves from being able to sign competent depth.

[Small Orange Soda]

Like who?  Again, it seems like Shaka changed that.  If he didn't, why did Sean and Tre leave?  Is there a rule that says every player on a roster must receive payment for being on the roster?  What are we paying Josh and Caedin, you seem to know.  It's not a crazy amount, but it's enough to handcuff ourselves from being able to sign competent depth.

The guy who went from starter to the end of the bench would probably qualify. So now he's getting a paycut? Not getting paid at all?

[Pakuni]

If Caedin and Josh aren't making crazy money, then how are we unable to land capable players in the portal?

I keep asking this and can't get an answer from you or Pak.

Coach's decision.

I don't think, and have never said, MU is unable to land capable players in the portal. That's been the excuse trotted out by people defending the lack of a Sheek replacement, not by me.

I think MU is able to land capable players, and they proved that with Fru and Minnesale. Not landing others, including one to replace Sheek, was a choice. Shaka's hands weren't tied here. He made a choice, and it's that choice that has some people frustrated.

[wadesworld]

The guy who went from starter to the end of the bench would probably qualify. So now he's getting a paycut? Not getting paid at all?

You don't think players were getting pay cuts after last season?  Why do you think Sean and Tre left?

[Small Orange Soda]

You don't think players were getting pay cuts after last season?  Why do you think Sean and Tre left?

Why did Amadou leave? Why did Itejere leave? Sometimes the coach has to be upfront with how they see their roles moving forward or just tell them it's time to go.

[Jay Bee]

SS loves the idea of 18 playing every game. That's why we're where we're at.

#LastYear

[wadesworld]

Why did Amadou leave? Why did Itejere leave? Sometimes the coach has to be upfront with how they see their roles moving forward or just tell them it's time to go.

So Sean, the projected starting point guard last year who has been around for 4 years, left even though he almost certainly was going to be making more this year than he ever makes again in his life unless he was getting a pay cut?  Or Toledo is paying what a 4th year starting point guard in the Big East would make?

Seems like a poor decision for him.

The reality is that players were told they would not be making as much money as they had been.  Including the player who went into the season as the starting center, and until 1 hour was left to have players enter the portal was projected to be the 3rd center on the roster next year.

[Pakuni]

Why is that you and others refuse to acknowledge that the bigs still available when Sheek got poached may have wanted a starting role and/or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions or make sense with the compensation structure for the roster?

Oh, I'm sure there were bigs that may have expected a starting role or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions. I haven't said otherwise.
But there's no way that was the case for every single big on the market. There are almost certainly bigs expecting to start for mid-majors or poorly funded P6 programs who could have been lured to Marquette with the promise of backing up this year followed by a great opportunity - because who else is on the roster? - to earn more minutes (and $$$) in 2027-28 and beyond.
We've been told Shaka is great at developing bigs. Couldn't he sell that along with the opportunity? Wouldn't the money Sheek left behind be better than what starters are getting in the MAC and Big West?
Again, we're not looking for an elite immediate impact guy. We're looking for someone better than CH and JC.

[Hards Alumni]

Coach's decision.

I don't think, and have never said, MU is unable to land capable players in the portal. That's been the excuse trotted out by people defending the lack of a Sheek replacement, not by me.

I think MU is able to land capable players, and they proved that with Fru and Minnesale. Not landing others, including one to replace Sheek, was a choice. Shaka's hands weren't tied here. He made a choice, and it's that choice that has some people frustrated.

Give us a name.  Tell us who was still available when Sheek walked.  Tell us with confidence who you think we could have gotten that would have agreed to backup minutes.

If you can't do that you're not trying to have an honest argument.

[Hards Alumni]

Oh, I'm sure there were bigs that may have expected a starting role or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions. I haven't said otherwise.
But there's no way that was the case for every single big on the market. There are almost certainly bigs expecting to start for mid-majors or poorly funded P6 programs who could have been lured to Marquette with the promise of backing up this year followed by a great opportunity - because who else is on the roster? - to earn more minutes (and $$$) in 2027-28 and beyond.
We've been told Shaka is great at developing bigs. Couldn't he sell that along with the opportunity? Wouldn't the money Sheek left behind be better than what starters are getting in the MAC and Big West?
Again, we're not looking for an elite immediate impact guy. We're looking for someone better than CH and JC.

Go look at the pool of guys that are left that are not seniors.  Report back.

[panda]

Oh, I'm sure there were bigs that may have expected a starting role or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions. I haven't said otherwise.
But there's no way that was the case for every single big on the market. There are almost certainly bigs expecting to start for mid-majors or poorly funded P6 programs who could have been lured to Marquette with the promise of backing up this year followed by a great opportunity - because who else is on the roster? - to earn more minutes (and $$$) in 2027-28 and beyond.
We've been told Shaka is great at developing bigs. Couldn't he sell that along with the opportunity? Wouldn't the money Sheek left behind be better than what starters are getting in the MAC and Big West?
Again, we're not looking for an elite immediate impact guy. We're looking for someone better than CH and JC.

This is where Shaka/staff/program's portal naivety comes in to play big time. Targets can be assessed and contacted at any time during the season/off season to discuss the staff want and opportunity within the program. Waiting for players to enter the portal is most often, too late and will lead to far too much competition. The staff needs to modernize their approach or will for a third season in a row, fail to meet expectations.

[Small Orange Soda]

So Sean, the projected starting point guard last year who has been around for 4 years, left even though he almost certainly was going to be making more this year than he ever makes again in his life unless he was getting a pay cut?  Or Toledo is paying what a 4th year starting point guard in the Big East would make?

Seems like a poor decision for him.

The reality is that players were told they would not be making as much money as they had been.  Including the player who went into the season as the starting center, and until 1 hour was left to have players enter the portal was projected to be the 3rd center on the roster next year.

Or maybe he'd been here four years and was told time to move on after losing his starting role and since he couldn't stay healthy?

"It's fine he's on the team, he took a paycut!" As Shooter said above, it's resignation followed by rationalization.

Since I answered your question before, maybe you or VBMG can answer the one you keep dancing around: Is it smart to pour four years of money and resources into a player you yourselves think is bad? And 'it doesn't matter' isn't a valid response.

[wadesworld]

This is where Shaka/staff/program's portal naivety comes in to play big time. Targets can be assessed and contacted at any time during the season/off season to discuss the staff want and opportunity within the program. Waiting for players to enter the portal is most often, too late and will lead to far too much competition. The staff needs to modernize their approach or will for a third season in a row, fail to meet expectations.

The staff had targets with months left in the season.  The staff vetted a ton of players.  They were well prepared for the portal.  Sheek agreed to return.  There is no way that you can be prepared for every situation in today's day and age.  You're kidding yourself if you say you can.

[wadesworld]

Or maybe he'd been here four years and was told time to move on after losing his starting role and since he couldn't stay healthy?

"It's fine he's on the team, he took a paycut!" As Shooter said above, it's resignation followed by rationalization.

Since I answered your question before, maybe you or VBMG can answer the one you keep dancing around: Is it smart to pour four years of money and resources into a player you yourselves think is bad? And 'it doesn't matter' isn't a valid response.

It's not resignation or rationalization.  It's countering you constantly saying "We're paying Josh and Caedin money when we could use the money for a contributor!"  Those guys are not preventing Marquette from signing a contributor.

And you're kidding yourself if you think nobody was told they were getting a paycut.

Tre never had a starting role and hardly had any minutes to cut.  So why did he leave?

[Small Orange Soda]

It's not resignation or rationalization.  It's countering you constantly saying "We're paying Josh and Caedin money when we could use the money for a contributor!"  Those guys are not preventing Marquette from signing a contributor.

And you're kidding yourself if you think nobody was told they were getting a paycut.

Tre never had a starting role and hardly had any minutes to cut.  So why did he leave?

What? 'Constantly saying?' Um, you clearly have me confused with someone else. I don't think we're missing out on guys because of what they're getting paid. But some people want to say we shouldn't overpay for guys when we're already doing that.

Answer my question.

[Pakuni]

Give us a name.  Tell us who was still available when Sheek walked.  Tell us with confidence who you think we could have gotten that would have agreed to backup minutes.

If you can't do that you're not trying to have an honest argument.

You ask me to state, with confidence, what a 20-year-old kid I've never met would think/do ... and accuse me of not having an honest argument?
LOL. Sorry, I lack your apparent skills to read the minds of strangers.

But I'll play along and name a couple:
Xavien Staton (former top 40 recruit transferred from BYU to Oregon State)
James Brown (former top 125 recruit transferred from UNC to Howard)

Both of these guys are young, have upside, committed after Sheek entered the portal and, IMO, would have been better options than what we have,

[Pakuni]

Go look at the pool of guys that are left that are not seniors.  Report back.

What pool? The one Sheek was in?

[Hards Alumni]

You ask me to state, with confidence, what a 20-year-old kid I've never met would think/do ... and accuse me of not having an honest argument?
LOL. Sorry, I lack your apparent skills to read the minds of strangers.

But I'll play along and name a couple:
Xavien Staton (former top 40 recruit transferred from BYU to Oregon State)
James Brown (former top 125 recruit transferred from UNC to Howard)

I asked you to name names that Marquette could have gotten, not to mind read.  Not some hypothetical, and you complained even about that.  Then you did it.  Good!  I knew you could do it, which is why I asked!

Now we can have a real conversation about why not those guys.  Weeks ago, I put forth names and no one wanted to talk about them either.  This place is such a bitch fest it becomes intolerable sometimes.

I think that Xavien probably wouldn't be an option since he seems like he is tied to living west of the Rockies.

James Brown would have been a nice fit, I agree.  Should have been able to outbid Howard despite its prestige.  Plus him being from Aurora you would think would have helped.

Who knows with either of them really.  Maybe Shaka and the others didn't kick the tires, maybe they did and didn't like what they heard, maybe they said thanks but no thanks! 

Thanks for playing along and being willing to have a real discussion.

[Pakuni]

I asked you to name names that Marquette could have gotten, not to mind read.

Sorry, but you asked who "we could have gotten that would have agreed to backup minutes."
How could I know - with confidence, no less - who would have agreed to backup minutes without knowing/speaking to that person or reading his mind?

I think that Xavien probably wouldn't be an option since he seems like he is tied to living west of the Rockies.

One of his final four as a Class of 2025 high school recruit was Michigan.

Who knows with either of them really.  Maybe Shaka and the others didn't kick the tires, maybe they did and didn't like what they heard, maybe they said thanks but no thanks! 

Agreed.
All of which is another way of saying the coaches made a choice. Not filling Sheek's spot because they didn't love the options is still a choice.
I think it's a bad choice, but I'll happily be proven wrong if CH makes that long-awaited leap.